Defend this dunctards, DUNC 1 and DUNC 2 are literally a single film cut in half. It's not even subtle, if you edit them together they're just 1 single 5 hour movie comprising a single 3 act structure. There's no obvious transition between the films. It's as if they wrote the script, realized it wouldn't fit into one film, and just cut it in half at an arbitrary point.
What surprises me is that DUNC 2 just abruptly stops the same way as soon as the great houses challenge Paul's ascension. It's clearly setting up for part 3 without any resolution.
But I thought this is supposed to be the end of the novel. So clearly Denis just doesn't know how to write an ending.
you mean, Frank Herbert doesn't know how to write an ending
There's no way the novel ends that way
I haven't read the book, but everything builds up to the crusade, then Paul just mogs the emperor, and the film ends .
That's how the book ends moron
Messiah picks up with Paul as Emperor of the Universe and follows an assassination plot against him as the main driver of the story
It's pretty close to how the first book ends. Dune Messiah (the second book) takes place 12 years later after the jihad is essentially done, but it's a good continuation of the first book and it's ending has finality to Pauls storyline.
If I remember correctly he has more leverage in the dune book because the spacing guild people that realize Paul isn't bluffing about destroying the spice fields.
it's a shitty book
That's how the book ends. They're not gonna bother to depict the years-long universal jihad because it's just the Fremen steamrolling the whole universe into a foregone conclusion. That's why the end battle is so anticlimactic as well, Paul already knows exactly how to defeat the Emperor so it's done quickly. The movie actually changed things by making the knife duel with Feyd have actual dramatic tension. In the book it's a foregone conclusion as well, but in the film Feyd's prescience is implied in conversation with Lady Fenrig on Geidi Prime, meaning that he's the only wild card in the path that Paul sees and could actually kill him
Why does Paul even fight Feyd?
Because Feyd is sadistic and challenged Paul to a duel on behalf of the emperor to experience the thrill of dueling such a powerful fighter.
I didn't read the book, only watched the film, I guess media illiteracy really isn't a meme if you didn't understand this plot point lol
Yeah but that's why Feyd fought Paul. Why did Paul fight Feyd.
>Paul Muhabeeb, on behalf of Shadman IV, I challenge you to a duel!
>No, lol. Frick off you pale Black person.
Because he foresaw it as being a necessary part of his narrow path to victory? It probably plays a necessarily role in the grand narrative like solidifying the fremen's belief that he is the messiah, or maybe it was part of the prophecy. You'd fight him too if you knew you were going to win.
Maybe. Wish we knew for sure.
Also I found it kind of funny that Feyd stabs Paul the exact same way Gurney does in Part One, when they're practicing and dropping exposition about the worthless, inconsistent shields. Paul "kills" Gurney, but Gurney points out that in his ignorance, Paul died as well. Then the same fight plays out, and Paul is stabbed in the same place, but he just walks it off.
I love it when foreshadowing has no payoff.
He saw zendeya not accepting her being a side piece and needed to put someone in their place to feel better
In a previous scene he stated to every Fremen at the assembly that he could defeat any of them in single combat, he's not gonna back down and have somebody else fight on his behalf in front of all of them
Why fight at all?
He wanted revenge against the Emperor and the Harkonnens, and to humiliate them even further
I thought Paul was on some endgame conquest by that point. He didn't make a big scene about the Baron, and he left the Emperor alive for some reason. Is he getting off on it?
I'm genuinely asking because I found it fricking impossible to read Paul's character. He just seems like an emotionless butthole from the beginning. Similar to you-know-who.
He both wants single combat for the sake of honor and to keep face in front the Fremen warriors. He also wants to kill a Harkonnen and mog the Emperor. That's all there is to it. Paul Atreides isn't like Anakin, he's not a fallen hero, he's just handsome like one. He's Genghis Khan or Alexander.
My interpretation from the movie was after Paul drank the Water of Life any convictions he had vanished, and he just became a calculating space israelite like his mom, before that he was motivated by revenge and justice but now he's just Space Hitler
In the book it was a matter of principle. He didn’t use the voice on him for the same reason.
What principle?
Kanly.
Honor rules of kanly.
Last remaining harkonnen beside paul and his mother. It's a good political move.
So Paul is an even bigger Gary Sue in the books? I don’t find his character interesting at all. I am kind of interested in reading the later book with his son as a sand worm emperor.
The whole thing about Feyd being an anti-Paul is mostly a movie invention, in the book he's neither an equal or a potential Kwisatz Haderach
He's like a young rookie Baron, a schemer and backstabber, except he's not super good at it because he's overambitious to the point of being impatient and sloppy. He's a b***h who has to cheat against the Atreidies fighter in the gladiator arena fight to avoid getting his ass killed then and there and attempts the same against Paul at the end.
i thought him being a young Baron came off in his voice being just like the Baron's
For some reason book readers sort of accept the Baron's Rabban = dumb and Feyd = smart thing at face value, even though he's biased and flawed like anyone else. Rabban shows himself to not be a total moron and Feyd has a mind of his own and tries to kill the Baron but is overall a willing pawn in his schemes. He's more pushed less for being a genius master schemer and more because of course he's the best contender the Baron has for the throne from a PR stand point - he's fit and handsome, much better for being used in the noble saviour LARP than ugly and soon-to-be fat Rabban.
It's tough because the book mostly gets across that the Baron is a pretty sharp and dangerous guy rather than mostly being gross and unpleasant looking, but then the Baron-Thufir discussion about the Fremen happens and makes the Baron look like a total goddamned moron
You can chalk that up to the simple fact he's only ever been to Arrakeen and never had to rule directly but IIRC that's the last we see of the Baron till the throne room scene with the Emperor where he proceeds to get chewed out. No real breathing room where the wheels begin turning in his head and he actually begins making headway with a Sardaukar-tier secret prisoner-slave army raised on Arrakis.
Yes but he's also more interesting in the book because you hear his thoughts. Same thing with Feyd, his section is pure kino. This is true unfortuantely of most adaptations of novels where you hear characters' thoughts
Kind of? He shrugs off most threats in the story and isn't slowed by any misgivings he has, the closest he ever gets to losing is when the Emperor orders Dune's equivalent of Tom Bombadil to kill him and the guy simply declines.
>but in the film Feyd's prescience is implied in conversation with Lady Fenrig on Geidi Prime, meaning that he's the only wild card in the path that Paul sees and could actually kill him
I thought that was Fenring? Granted the Feyd and Paul fight is more intense in the movie but it's not a total steamroll in the book. Feyd is able to cut Paul as Paul is able to cut Feyd and is able to trick Paul into thinking the poisoned spur is on one side of his hip vs. the where it's really positioned. Then he's able to briefly freak Feyd out with the "I won't say it!" exclamation which allows him to get the upperhand and kill him. It's more than in the book the knife fight is half physical half mental mind games and trying to discern the opponent's 'plan within plans', so there is less of a rapid succession of blows and going back and forth physically.
They have, loosely, kind of transposed Fenring stuff to Feyd in the movie.
Sorry, I misread the guy I replied to. Missed the "in the film" bit. The Harkonnens all dying in book one is why the sequels never have that same magic. They were absolutely essential to the first book being a fun read. I always liked their chapters. Obviously Herbert's point was to have Paul surpass all of his initial enemies as a tyrant but I've always found it funny how the first book's plot easily could have been stretched into a proper trilogy. The scope feels small given how it's written but it's actually quite huge. If Herbert had a mind back in the day to make the plot of the first novel be a trilogy, he easily could have. Shit like the Baron's schemes being essential to fracturing his alliance with the Emperor and giving Paul *the* opening he needs, POV chapters for Rabban, introducing other Great House aristocrats as characters as both allies/enemies, etc. It's an interesting hypothetical to think about.
>I haven't read the book
every time kek
We're on the Cinemaphile board, frick off
It is. Granted, it makes a little bit more sense and is handled differently, but it is pretty abrupt and requires Messiah.
Frank Herbert was no better than Shōnen manga authors like Akira Toriyama. I.E. they just borrowed concepts and put them in different context, called it their own, then wrote "stories" with no ending and power creeps and ebin plot twists so they could keep going on for eternity and make money. Next time you hear a bookgay call Frank's son a gay for his prequel fanfiction, just remember that most of it's based on his dad's notes, and if anything he's just carrying on his dad's legacy of homosexualry.
Frank Herbert couldn't write characters. Frank Herbert couldn't write coherent storylines. Frank Herbert could only copy and paste concepts he read from greater influences, and did so for profit, not for creativity. Can't say I blame the guy, but his fans are insufferable. Same applies to DBZ and DUNC.
Dune through God Emperor is a completely coherent story line
>just remember that most of it's based on his dad's notes
No, it's based on his son's autistic tunnel vision interpretation of what the butlerian jihad was all about. An uplifting message of humans forsaking technology that made their lives too easy to pre-empt their own extinction is not remotely similar to an uprising against literal skynet and terminators. Obviously the latter lends itself better to be adapted into Hollywood slop, which was the entire reason his son doubled down on that interpretation.
>An uplifting message of humans forsaking technology that made their lives too easy to pre-empt their own extinction is not remotely similar to an uprising against literal skynet and terminator
Has that interpretation even been done elsewhere? That is one faction of pro-machine humans vs anti-machine crusaders? So much more novel than the Skynet/AM shit. Such a story you can imagine the jihad beginning soon after Arrakis is discovered and the realisation of what spice can do - the planet completely changed the game and upended te status quo and but wind in the sails of those that has been concerned over thinking machines for a while but didn't have a leg to stand on regarding what the hell can replace them
Everything his son wrote either contradicts his original work or reduces it to an overused trope. Dune goes from weird and esoteric to pop-scify.
Also I particularly despise the modern trend of de-mystification of every aspect of a setting.
Frick off moron
The ending of Dunc 2 is exactly how the book ends, with the same cliffhanger for the holy war, and Dunc 2 starts directly after Dunc 1 (they still have Jamis's body) so not sure wtf you're talking about here
>The ending of Dunc 2 is exactly how the book ends, with the same cliffhanger for the holy war
No it isn't. The book ends with Paul completely triumphant, the last chapter is him with his mother and Chani basically dividing up the spoils of his victory.
The movie doesn't end this way because it's actually incongruous with the second book, which uses a 12 year time skip to do a completely unexplained "everything changed" status quo flip in ways that lightly conflict with the first books ending.
Literally, Paul tells the Great Houses to frick off out of Arrakis orbit and the Space Guild immediately comply because they know his threats against the Spice aren't a bluff, then he talks about how his imperial marriage will end the state of war and bring the Great Houses back on side as allies.
BR2049, Sicario, Prisoners, Enemy, Arrival, Incendies. All kino endings. Dune is his first time revisiting a universe over the course of multiple films though. His approach is definitely different. Seems he wants to treat Messiah as more of a Part Three then a sequel you can skip
>rip out everything that makes the ending mean anything
>"dood shit ending"
Enlighten me on the elements that make the ending better in the book
I do not have that kind of character limit. There's so much missing that i cannot begin to describe it.
kys autist
Maybe you're just media illiterate
Most good faith contrarian Dunc hater
Read book zoomBlack folk.
Frank Herbert wrote it like that on purpose. The ending is abrupt so you keep thinking about the story after it has finished. It kickstarts the imagination.
kek
It’s true.
It's a shitty excuse. Anyone can write a book with no ending and be like "it's le imagination"
It's just lazy writing.
>It's just lazy writing.
It's a proper literary device when done correctly. The Iliad ends in a similar fashion, abruptly and still in the middle of the war, just how it started, and there's only foreshadowing for Achilles' death and the destruction of Troy
>The Iliad
Of course, the perfect template for modern storywriting, modern audiences will love the narrative device from The Illiad. You should be an author anon, literary agents would love you
>modern audiences will love the narrative device from The Illiad
They do.
>it's another "all modern fiction is based on classic greek literature" episode
And this is why you will never be a published author. But you might have a promising future as a grade school language arts teacher.
>And this is why you will never be a published author.
I'm trying to imagine the horrible visage of the person who would type this post out in complete seriousness
>>it's another "all modern fiction is based on classic greek literature" episode
Link the post where someone said this. Repulsive incel or insufferable ESL drone? Call it.
>"all modern fiction is based on classic greek literature"
The first recorded usage of many literary devices is in Greek literature. It's why stuff like the Old Testament and Gilgamesh are really only interesting from an academic viewpoint while Homer is still top contender for greatest literature of all time 3000 years later
>modern audiences will love the narrative device from The Illiad
The movie's a success and the book's a classic, so yes
So.. basically. Anon.. what you're saying g here is.. you have no friends
>your behavior is probably why
Some anon posted on here pointing out that in the book Paul mentions that one of his worst visions of the future begins with him approaching the Baron and calling him Grandfather, and that's one of the changes of the film. Based on this he was speculating that Denis is doing an alternate timeline intended to be somehow darker than the books
Not sure if you've seen the movie but Paul actually does call the Baron Grandfather in DUNC 2
Yes that's scene that I'm talking about, thank you. In the book it's Alia that kills the Baron
>alternate timeline
>Dune multiverse
First Final Fantasy VII, now Dune. Is nothing safe?
This is the part they're talking about
It's not a WHOA THE MOVIES ARE TAKING THE OTHER PATH thing, it's just a neat way of saying it's dong something different
What does a space emperor even do?
Collects spaces taxes and holds big space parties I guess
>A spice production disruption can mean only one thing; sand people
You can make the Kwisatz Haderach in this game by absorbing bloodlines. I have infants born with 60+ personal combat skill
Impregnate your harem, plot, scheme, throw bacchanals, seduce other men's wives, build a massive high quality army to intimidate your vassals. All the things you do in Crusader Kings 2
I wonder if we'll get a Chani vs. Paul enemies to lovers arc in Denis's interpretation of Messiah, that'd be kino
He's genuinely gonna have to stretch the runtime, I'm assuming the new plotline with Feyd's kid will be a part of that, and not just a throwaway scene to make Jessica being the Baron's daughter make more sense
>Defend this dunctards, DUNC 1 and DUNC 2 are literally a single film cut in half
Yes, but I'm not sure why that's a problem. This is far from the first time this has been done. I'm suddenly thinking about Kill Bill 1 & 2, which again is essential one very long movie cut in two. Also, you complain about the movies ending on a cliffhanger. Movies ending in cliffhangers ALL THE TIME. That's kind of the whole point when you're planning more. You want to give the audience something to look forward to. A trilogy was always the plan, and Villeneuve has always been very open about this. So again, I'm not sure what you're getting butthurt about.
The ending is just as rushed and not really any better than lynchs dune. I felt israeliteed watching DUNC part 2. Too much shit skipped in favour of poor exposition. He had 2 movies to show the story and he decided to shit on film instead.
Get DUNCed on
I liked the first part so basically frick you and frick denis. Cursed media (books suck, it starts to get stupid past this part of the story) and anyone trying to bring it to film seems to show themselves as a hack.
Promise to never watch a series until it's finished. Be a king among peasants.
>Somehow, Guerny returns
laughed out loud.
what next, Duncan returns? lmfao
And there is virtually no chemistry or felt relationship between Paul and Guerny. Picards relationship with Paul is actually better in Lynch's dune. There is so much shit wrong with this part 2 that really gets the noggin jogging.
Felt this way too. I do think Momoa did a surprisingly terrific job as Idaho though
Vileneuve has a habit of skipping over any real bonding between characters. I've seen Sicario and Arrival, and both of them feature a major relationship between 2 characters where they're shown being buddies but it skips over the part where they actually become closer, it's just implied in narrative using time skips.
That's how it's meant to be, Gurney is not his bestest pal in the whole world. They have a nice reunion then it firmly goes back to one being a lord and one being a servant.
Gurney spends most of his time after his return in the book frowning and thinking about how Paul has turned his back on his fathers beliefs
Nobody tell him
YEARS WORTH OF SPACE POLITICS HAPPENS MEANWHILE A PREGNANT WOMAN MOVES FROM FIRST TO SECOND TRIMESTER
MAKE THAT MAKE SENSE
Maybe the geriatric spice slowed the fetus's aging
yeah visually and i guess the emotional excitement of the ending was there but for me it was totally butchered narratively. cutting out the spacing guild and failing to properly convey paul's gambit against them with the nukes and them seeing into dead-ends with their prescience kinda blew it for me, instead we got fremen comically flying into space to perform jihad in a very TO BE CONTINUED... manner. feyd was the best part of the movie but i didn't like how they cut his cheating nature with the hidden blade in the duel either
>they hire me to poke some guys and the chew me out for it...
Was the shot of the ants crawling on the Barron's ear a Lynch reference?
No
https://streamable.com/nujl5n
Don't lie, this scene alone was pure distilled kinography. I don't care if there is no marvel ending, I am satisfied as long as my hollywood blockbusters continue to get get gigakino like this again
havent seen this yet but looking forward to it, barely any decent sci fi movies/shows out there and it really, really sucks.
i read the the 3rd movie wont be about Leto/the God Emperor, which sucks as well, i havent read the books but he seems like a super interesting character, would it make for a bad film to cover his life?
People have spent decades saying Dune is unfilmable, God Emperor actually might be.
Like it's word vomit from a giant worm dude
thanks for the answers chuds, i read it was mostly dialogue & philosophical stuff so wouldnt translate well which is a shame because a prescient giant worm dude is fascinating
also these new captchas are fricked
He does show up at the end of Messiah as an infant who already can somehow let his dad literally see through his eyes
This hack gave himself two movies to tell the story, yet still gutted it of everything but the bare bones, and still couldn't make something of it.
And if you are absolutely opposed to reading, watching Lynch is the only way to get further context. Duncgays absolutely taking Ls.
Me floating out of the theater to watch Dune (1984) by David Lynch (note: definitely not sponsored)
Saw it in February for the rerelease
It's a tragedy how much kino was shot but not included in the theatrical cut, the deleted scenes of the Jamis fight and Thufir Hawat's death and marrying Irulan are really important and their absence is severely felt. Definitely recommend the extended fan cut on youtube for plot, but at least I got to hear the score on a real theater sound system