So how the frick are they gonna motivate not just going back and rebuilding Krakoa? They're beating the everyloving shit out of Orchis on every front and we have less than 3 months left to explain why suddenly the mutants have supposedly "lost" their homeland. There's not even any internal treason that prevents them from just going back and fixing things up again.
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>suddenly the mutants have supposedly "lost" their homeland
despite multiple reality manipulators and time travelers on the X-Men since Genosha was destroyed, nobody ever went back and undid that
nobody even went back and prevented the original human Genoshans from taking mutants as slaves, which is pretty big gesture from people like Cable or Bishop who have absolutely got the power to do that if their backstories are in the slightest bit credible
>treason
you have to be a real country to have laws about treason, kiddo
anyway the answer is because Krakoa is dumb and nobody but you cares about it, get fricked
Don't you have a franchise to ruin, Brevoort?
>brevoort
man how smooth brained to you have to be to think pointing out obvious shit makes someone one of the marvel writers? you have it completely backwards, writers don't do things that make sense or are straightforward, and certainly not the dumbfrick libshit capitalists writing x-men these days
I used to avoid discussions about Krakoa because the fanbase used to get aggressive about it but I legit don't get it. The X-Men became what they're supposed to hate for five years. All the praise I say was people either claiming it's interesting because everyone's on the same side, it's not another mutant genocide (it centered around multiple), "finally the X-Men are winning" (They weren't, that's the plot), it's an interesting deconstruction (they framed most of it positively), or people Literally Me'ing over it because they have revenge fantasies.
I never had a good read on the X-Men fandom so I don't know if I lost it or they did anymore.
Hickman was very very blatantly sowing the seeds of showing that Krakoa was a terrible idea. His text pieces from HoX/PoX get constantly overlooked but contain multiple hints on how the concessions and moral compromises required to build Krakoa were already setting in the rot from the start. Hickman had Xavier confess that Moira had forced him into compromising his dream, that wasn't just something they threw in later. But other writers never got the memo or refused to follow it and portrayed Krakoa as an unironic good thng despite the ethnostate/fascim angle that Hickman was alluding to. And now here we are, one giant derail of a story later.
I know that much and I'm mildly interested in what Hickman's Krakoa might've lead to but still, the fanbase's stance on what we got always confused me. You also have people claiming Krakoa wasn't controversial while also doomposting about moving away from it and raging at people about who are glad about it. Most people into Krakoa I've seen are...weird.
lmao, got a point there.
The problem is that we know roughly what we would have gotten from Hickman, and it would have looked a lot like what we got without him.
That sucks. Krakoa as a set-up seems like a perfectly good set up to examine the negative trends the X-Men have been stuck in. It's the logical endpoint of the militant radical beliefs they started adopting since Decimation for them to go "Wait a minute, what are we doing?" and come out better because of it.
You simply can't make that criticism. If the book is popular then it continues, if the book isn't popular then no one cares. If you don't like the trends you simply stop writing them and move on.
I mean sure but acknowledging it in a story means you avoid like what we're going to get now where we return to heroic X-Men and everyone's probably going to ignore they were drug peddling fascists for a while. X-Men members going bad isn't that uncommon but Krakoa's probably the most abhorrent they've been off the top of my head.
With the resurrection of Magneto shit it honest to fricking god seems like the writers completely lack any self awareness. You have Magneto talking about how Krakoa was an empty fricking farce of a supremacist nation one minute and then calling Orchis empty fascists the next and there's not even a hint of reflection, irony, or any kind of cross examination that suggests he or by extenstion the writers are fricking aware of the painfully obvious comparison at all between these obvious parallels, like not even to refute it or do a basic fricking comparison of "Here is thing 1 that is about A, here is thing 2 that is like 1 and also about A" shit that even toddlers can do automatically, just these fricking issues that were almost certainly written within an hour of eachother having the same discussion about the same subject twice in reference to two different groups with a character who's entire thing is being the CEO of Marvel Race Wars and the thought didn't even enter their fricking heads somehow.
I knew it was all bullshit when he just fricking dismisses his own goddamn shadow like it was some half hearted troll shitting on his favorite game over at Cinemaphile with some of the most luke warm excuses I've ever seen instead of actual character development where he comes to terms with his thirst for power and domination. Then they have the gall to say he's redeemed and tries to not kill people as much then put him on the racial revenge squad. Christ if this was a Persona game Magneto would have gotten hung from a light pole for this shit
That's lies. Hickman ended his run with Xavier and Magneto unrepentant about the harm they caused creating Krakoa with Moira and had the c**t Emma Frost out the truth (IE Mutants always get genocided) Moira told Xavier to flip him, to the Quiet Council even as Emma help strip Moira of her powers so she can't reset the timeline to preserve Krakoa's existence. And the implication that everyone else in the council were now going to get their hands extra bloody helping Xavier and Magneto with their goals to keep Krakoa conquer the Earth.
It was GIllen who had Xavier admit that he fricked up and fricked up big time. NOT Hickman, who believes in the "Great Man" theory that people he deems "great men" of power and wealth and influence and vision, can commit whatever horrific crime and atrocity they want to further their goals because unlike the rabble, "Great Men" write the history books and aren't judged by them or anyone else not even God. Whereas Gillen's a self-conscious gay man who has enough self-awareness that the woke ethno-national nature of Krakoa and the X-Men was a horrible betrayal of the central premise of the X-Men franchise and has been doing damage control to try and unfrick what Hickman fricked up including having Xavier admit he should have told Moira to eat shit and refuse her plan to create Krakoa.
>enough self-awareness that the woke ethno-national nature of Krakoa and the X-Men was a horrible betrayal of the central premise of the X-Men franchise
It's surprising that's not an almost unanimous view. One time I tried pointing out the weird pro-replacement theory narrative the X-books have taken and I had to try to explain to a guy how that's not a positive thing even for the group you think will be doing the "replacing"
>weird pro-replacement theory
I will never stop questioning why they made the heroes adopt this instead of it just being something the villains believed in. The X-Men believing that mutants are "destined" to supplant humans (ALL humans not just the ones that hate mutants) is such a cancerous belief and it's based in outright fricking racism. Do you really want to base your oppression metaphore by making a racist theory part of the core belief? And it didn't even used to be the case, when it was introduced in the comics in the 60s Xavier called it a loony theory.
Hey, are you the same anon in previous threads I talked with about Trask and how that idea developed across their publication? Glad to see you're still around.
True, the cynical part of my brain has to remind me of that. It's still odd seeing one of Marvel's biggest IPs push that and it generally being accepted. On the other hand, most discussions about the X-Men I've seen usually aren't visualizing any modern status quos so I'm not sure if people are aware. It's usually some nebulous fusion of 90s cartoon but with the full school from the movies/Morrison.
Yeah, I guess I'm predictable by now. I only saw your post scroll by and my Pavlovian instinct kicked in.
It's fine. lmao. I'm autistic enough to pick up on speech patterns and thought you were familiar.
Krakoan Nemesis always read like Rick in my head and I hate it
>It's fine. lmao. I'm autistic enough to pick up on speech patterns and thought you were familiar.
It's also just about the only time I engage with the X-Men stuff on this board. Because I am so fricking exhausted by all the people who just swallowed Krakoa as a genuine paradise and are now crying everywhere that it's ending and all the people crying about synergy or whatever the frick. it's exhausting, the whole fanbase has gone absolutely rabid over this one storyline that wasn't even that great when you consider what it accomplished in five fricking years.
You'd be unpleasantly surprised how many people are okay with putting boots on people's necks so long as it's not their neck
I mean it makes sense but you'd think that people would have clued into how that's Magneto's entire deal. He doesn't give a shit about the Holocaust except that it happened to him and he decided his problem was that it was somebody else's boot on his neck and not the other way around.
Claremont repeatedly hammered that in by having him flirt with "Could I be a better person, maybe I'm just taking out my pain on others' and having him get over said pain and decide to keep going but I guess he wasn't clear enough because you still have homosexuals who think Claremont's plan was for Magneto to be "redeemable"
>you'd think that people would have clued into how that's Magneto's entire deal
You give most comic readers and writers too much credit. You could have the literal word of god telling you what the story is about and they'd still miss the point
What was that description Claremont gave Magneto in interviews again? "A terrorist with the voice of a statesman" or something like that? I always have internal conflict over if more people should know the deep lore on his reinvention of Magneto just being a massive criticism of Israel. On one hand, I feel like nowadays literally can't get more perfect to bring it up but on the other hand, I think that bit of knowledge might be too spicy for people.
It'd probably kill a lot of support for "good guy Magneto" which I think would be a positive even if I wouldn't want comically evil Magneto like Morrison made.
I'm still not sure how the next era's going to pan out but hopefully it's better. This could be a delusional thought but I think synergy might indirectly help course correct. Whenever the MCU X-Men come around, which probably will be shit, they probably are going to take a very bland safe apolitical take on the X-Men. They probably will pay lip service in interviews but it'd probably not be in the movie itself. So then you're going to have infighting between insular MCU shills and insular X-fans which will cause a reexamining of what the X-Men are even about.
Massive copium thought though
>I feel like nowadays literally can't get more perfect to bring it up but on the other hand, I think that bit of knowledge might be too spicy for people.
Right now is probably the best and most salient time for that. Since there are less and less people blindly accepting the Israeli narrative and more and more evidence showing what's actually going on I think it's a lot less controversial to make that point. I mean you're still gonna get knee jerk reactions but that's a given
I think it's honest to god my favorite X-Men factoid because it explains so much. A lot of confusion and elements that seem off fade away in an instant with that Rosetta stone.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in comics on the same level of "Oh frick, it all makes sense now"
I don't think they have the stones for this.
Well, current Disney policy is to roll back on the progressivness in favor of nostalgia. The relative success of 97 I think will lead them to lean that way.
But as far as the disney internal and holywood leftists, is there really any controversy? I thought they were 100 percent pro israel
tbf I don't think Magneto is going to return to being a walking "This is why Israel sucks" character but I think public perception of the character would shift a lot if it became a thing even normies know about. Finally kill the Malcolm X meme too
I might've been more pessimistic in the past about it but I think the X-Men will get sorted out sooner or later. The allegory as most understand it isn't sustainable with how contradictory it's become because it's actually multiple competing. It's why every time the X-Men come up, you always get the same complaints over and over. A lot of them having simple answers if you've followed the threads.
We have had no hint Magneto is even in the movie. Following the Sabra debacle I doubt it
I didn't mean whatever the MCU does with the X-Men. I meant like the brand as a whole. X-Men '97 has made me more confident in a more traditionally heroic X-Men that still follow "the dream" becoming the norm again.
The one thing I will agree with Krakoa fans on is they shouldn't spam mutant genocide stories as often as they have in the past 20 years but we'll see.
Krakoa only happened as a response to literally every mutant-related event since Decimation/House of M being them getting genocided or driven out or attacked or trying to fight back and getting attacked or fighting other heroes or whatever the frick. I get it. I really do get it. When the suits that run Marvel now piss in your face for 15 years it wears you down. Krakoa came along and for once the X-Men had their own thing that wasn't some pussy-ass shit like Utopia. They had a major relaunch from a major creator and a new status quo. And people flocked to it. I get it.
I don't think it was a very good relaunch overall but I understand its place in history. Like with the Initiative era which sucked ass but was right for that moment in time.
The people who brought you Krakoa were the ones delivering 15 years of extinction stories, Krakoa was the franchise obsessing over extinction stories, and the fandom jerks off over extinction stories. From my perspective the ideal X-Men story seems to be thousands of mutants dying then six or seven popular characters effortlessly curbstomping while proclaiming superiority - wash, rinse, repeat.
> the people who brought you krakoa are the same people who delivered years of extinction stories
this is why I instinctively don’t take any krakoa crticism on here seriously, it’s literally people just making shit up instead of anything anchored in reality.
To be fair, almost every threat to Krakoa is inherently framed as a threat to mutantkind, making every storyline where Krakoa’s safety is at stake thematically an extinction storyline. Which is most of them. But especially Inferno and Fall of X.
>X-Men '97 has made me more confident in a more traditionally heroic X-Men that still follow "the dream" becoming the norm again.
I would be shocked if the next season isn't a full season Krakoa adaptation with the seeds they have already planted
>I don't think they have the stones for this
It's even worse, they don't really understand or refuse to make the connection. How many of the writers do you think jumped on the anti-Gaza war bandwagon once the death toll started ballooning but also think Magneto did everything right and is a hero.
Oh no there will absolutely be war when the MCU X-Men comes out. There's already war between the 97 "shills" (aka people who just want easy to follow fun stories) and the Krakoa "shills" (who you will have to roll a die on whether they actually read the comics and genuinely liked them or liked the idea of mutant party island but never read a comic). Both sides are filled with argumentative buttholes so just imagine when the third phalanx joins in.
The problem is we have no idea what the MCU version will be like but I would be shocked beyond belief if it touches anything actually sensitive or political. The bland-ass political commentary they did in stuff like Falcon and the Winter Soldier maybe, but nothing stronger than "maybe police bad?" tier. There's a leak that Sinister might be the villain in case the narrative will probably be diversity vs eugenics with a bad guy so comically evil that nobody can even begin to identify with him.
>The bland-ass political commentary they did in stuff like Falcon and the Winter Soldier
>There's a leak that Sinister might be the villain in case the narrative will probably be diversity vs eugenics with a bad guy so comically evil that nobody can even begin to identify with him.
That's basically what I'm expecting. The tricky part is the narrative in both directions for the MCU depends on marketing more so than actual contents. It's how the get both praise and criticism....idk, gay couples shown on screen when there's a maximum of 2 maybe?
Marketing for MCU X-Men absolutely will roll out the usual of MLK vs Malcolm X, LGBT, "This is the movie we need now", etc. so I think people will believe it to be so regardless. It's too many steps removed for me to feel confident in how exactly the arguments will go
Yeah. The only thing we can guess is that since it's a Disney product it will have to be marketable everywhere in the world including China so they will definitely have to restrict any overt messages of oppression (see how in Shang-Chi they constantly skirted about actual Chinese politics by making the bad guy an immortal magical dude with his own agenda). So as you say, maybe a gay kiss or something that can be cut out. Probably some "mutant and proud" thing presented in the blandest, least provocative way possible. if it really is Storm vs Sinister as the leak claims then you can already see how the movie will play out already.
The thing I think they might lean into with the MCU that the comics don't is having the mutants have human supporting characters to do the usual "we are stronger together" thing and make ally-dom feel included. And that might become a big divergence because that's something the comics haven't been doing to any extent for what, 20 years now?
The main thing with Shang Chi is they were scared shitless of using his actual father, who was literally Fu Manchu, for 2 reasons.
1. Fu Manchu's only political bent other than "himself" was "I will probably restore Imperial China to its height/to power at some point because where else would I rule from I grew up there and am maybe a chinese royal."
And
2. the far left has, like with many things older than WWII, made up a new historical context for the character where instead of the Yellow Peril being the sudden culture shock of "Oh frick there actually is a society as developed and complex as our own what does that say, what if they produce the next Great Man of History." manifesting as a character people loved so much they thought he was a better person than the heroes where the "muh racewar" shit got called bullshit and dropped after the first book it's instead some insane theory about Fu Manchu, maybe the most impactful and beloved villain of the last 100+ years and literally the conceptual father of every mastermind villain after him from Ming the Merciless to Lex Luthor to Doctor Doom, somehow being a demeaning failure wrapped in whoodoo for people to laugh at because none of these people read let alone study historical context without projecting their own assumptions and hunting for confirmation.
Which is why that movie barely made a profit. China wasn't interested, they have Wuxia already, it didn't find a counterculture audience or a "Frick China" audience in the surrounding world because it was just chinese dicksucking, and nobody in the western world gave a shit because it's Shang Chi and the only reason to ever use Shang Chi is to get to use Fu Manchu or set him up so you can use him later because he's one of the greatest villains in history with a lot of depth and complexity.
Historical awareness is for chumps now, apparently. It's the same shit as the extremely exhausting Psylocke/Kwannon/Betsy thing. Nobody complained about it because it was a weird-ass sci-fi magic plot about bodyswapping and it put the character on the map. Without it she would have vanished into background status like Longshot and Dazzler and others. But then within a few years these people online jumped onto this as if it was "yellowface", as if Betsy had intentionally and willingly tried to appropriate another culture and as if she was some malevolent ghoul who stole a woman's body. None of that fricking happened in the comics but eventually Marvel bucked so hard they separated the characters into two, keeping Kwannon as "iconic" Psylocke and making betsy into captain Britain. And now, even to this day, every time a fanartist who isn't involved in this whole shitshow posts art or cosplay of classic Psylocke and writes "Betsy Braddock" a bunch of these people will immediately surge into the thread and post "But that's Kwannon though" as if they have to put their shitty little flags in the sand and show their amazing ability to not read a storyline they complain about.
>That entire second point
What the hell are you talking about?
NTA but to simplify the frick out of a complex issue, a huge problem in literary academia for literally more than a century is that Death of the Author became not only mainstream but the dominant school of thought, the distinction between allegory and applicability was essentially lost, and the study of the medium became increasingly incestious and divorced from the studies of history and anthropology and so on and more and more married to vague and low standard areas like Women's studies and so on.
The result is modern Cinemaphile studies tend to be a bunch of morons with diplomas projecting their personal opinions on older works, particularly with genre fiction, and getting to state their interpretations as authoritative fact and get paid for it, usually just devolving study of works into a tool for personal pet politics and because the focus is on the study of literature which has become increasingly self-referential in the academic sphere as an area of study rather than properly cross-disciplinary analysis, which is just a universal fricking problem in academia.
The end result is people just make up their own head canons based on memes and the folklore/pop culture understanding of what they think the world was like prior to WWII more or less according to whatever school of thought they ascribe to and just reinvent the facts to fit their narrative. It's a huge problem and a big part of why Literary studies in particular are fricking dead.
Good news, with the cultural ascension of lefty idpol politics, death of the author is dead. Now if you don't interpret all works as left-wing you are media illiterate.
that's just making official what they were already doing though.
>Now if you don't interpret all works as left-wing you are media illiterate
That's not what they are saying at all you fricking idiot
I read you, I understand you and I feel like you two are spewing nothing but nonsense
>we have no idea what the MCU version will be like
Feige is a big fan of Astonishing X-Men and there was a leak a year ago that said the film was based on it.
>admit he should have told Moira to eat shit and refuse her plan to create Krakoa.
And have mutants be genocided?
It's a pro-replacement theory in the same sense that homosexual habilis got replaced with homosexual erectus. Not in the "they are going to kill us all" narrativ that the replacement Theory does
>It's a pro-replacement theory in the same sense that homosexual habilis got replaced with homosexual erectus. Not in the "they are going to kill us all" narrativ that the replacement Theory does
What? That's not at all how that theory works. That's a completely different conspiracy theory.
I don't have a revenge fantasy. I have a depraved mutie orgy fantasy. MAKE MORE MUTANTS
IM GONNA SHOW SINISTER HOW TO REALLY MAKE CHIMERAS
>I have a depraved mutie orgy fantasy. MAKE MORE MUTANTS
>IM GONNA SHOW SINISTER HOW TO REALLY MAKE CHIMERAS
Didn't Nightcrawler order him to alter his shroom so everyone would calm down, not the other way around
whoever made Nemesis the fungi mutant instead of the (former) Nazi Dr McNinja deserves to be fired
They let a lot of nazis live on Krakoa so it's not like he's the only one. He did get to write a Mein Kampf manifesto as well.
>Sinister (former)
>Nemesis (former)
>Fenris twins
>Gorgan (Hydra fash not technically a Nazi)
>Magneto (Mutant equivalent)
The fact that there are 4 actual no joke, no hyperbole fricking Nazis on their island one of which is in HIGH leadership position is insane especially with how hard Marvel went on the pop twitter woke shit
Sinister running eugenics research and death camps in WW2 and being invited to sit on the Quiet Council is definitely a Thing That Happened.
Seriously Ewing had to have wrote this shit with his editor holding a gun to his head, only way I can cope with such bullshit. Fricking worst book Ewing has ever wrote just absolute dogshit and a waste of fricking paper, trees died for this worthless book
Just accept Ewing is trash.
>The fact that there are 4 actual no joke, no hyperbole fricking Nazis on their island one of which is in HIGH leadership position is insane especially with how hard Marvel went on the pop twitter woke shit
Sinister, Nemesis and Gorgon were all allowed important positions which as you say is fascinating considering that twitter lost their goddamn minds about Secret Empire "glorifying" nazism. I would say HYDRA is less offensive but I guess not since I have barely heard anyone mention the actual nazis on Krakoa as being kind of a poor idea
Sinster is way older than any Nazi, guy was born in the Victorian era. It's less about him being a Nazi and has everything to do with using the German state to further his own goals.
Nemesis I don't know his full deal but he turned around and helped hunt other Nazis who escaped.
>It's less about him being a Nazi and has everything to do with using the German state to further his own goals.
Lmao homie they ALL say that
>Skull (sometimes)
>Zemo
>Strucker
>Braun and other irl Nazis and apologists
You still wore the swastika and little skullies dude you can't pretend it didn't happen like a bad one night stand (well you can if you're a real one)
Yes but when Sinister says it he actually means it
Since when does THAT matter when it comes to the fricking Holocaust?
Because he wasn't drive by an desire to kill but to study genomes..
Strucker's rejection of Nazism comes after the fact. It's more along the lines of "was a Nazi, not anymore." Then later writers ignored that and he's Hitler's biggest fangirl. Just like they did with Zemo.
It will never stop being funny that the X-books shit all over the Fenris twins for being Nazis when they were indoctrinated from birth while everyone else joined up willingly. Plus not only have they been shown to set that aside for the sake of pragmatism, their personal ideology is pretty much the Krakoan public stance.
I was expecting them to betray Krakoa to HYDRA since HYDRA is supporting Orchis and they were still extremely loyal to daddy Strucker in Hickman's own Secret Warriors but I don't think it ever happened.
I heard they changed that to Stasis now.
Sinister was still doing the eugenic baby experiments in Alamogordo though.
>I heard they changed that to Stasis now.
Of course they did, I keep forgetting that homosexual exists, fricking worthless character at least Righteous has boobs and feet and Stellaris looks like a wizard. Stasis is just fricking sucks though that's mostly on Duggan
Nah, that anon is wrong. They didn't change Sinister being a nazi to Stasis. They did have a panel where Sinister says he used to be a huge racist, but he surgically excised that portion of his brain. He thought there was no point in hating a specific race more than others when in reality he despises all life that isn't him.
Yeah but give them time once enough Cinemaphile X-gays disseminate that tidbit on Twitter the writers will decide to make a 4 part mini detailing that Nazi Sinister was always Stasis and not the "real" Mr. Sinister or some shit
In the Sinister timeline he killed 8 quadrillion mutants in an attempt to become a Dominion, no one's going to get hung up over the atrocities he committed in WW2 playing on both sides, he never stopped committing atrocities.
Huh, suprised that they didn't take the shot. There was already a contradiction in having him basically do the same thing in America at the same time.
I guess it's not too hard to explain him travelling back and forth.
>Righteous has boobs and feet
I wonder what her feet taste like
It’s a fricking crime that they got rid of his fedora and replaced it with a bunch of mushrooms growing out of his head
I can only speak for myself, but I didn't start reading X-Men comics when I was a kid because I dreamed of racial integration and the X-Men represented that. I read the comics because I thought the characters were cool and the stories were interesting. I don't give a shit about Xavier's dream. I do give a shit about interesting settings.
So I liked Krakoa. Especially compared to the years right before it. A living, mutant island where they have advanced plant-based sci-fi tech, resurrection from the dead, and basically every mutant character ever to choose from, was better than the usual suspects living in NYC (which is where the Mansion had been, located in Central Park) doing the same old shit. I also like the Atlanteans living in Atlantis and Inhumans living in Attilan. If both of those groups were to abandon their home, spltt up across the world and just live in regular, real world cities and try to integrate into normal human society with apartments and working at coffee shops (the new X-Men status quo after Krakoa) I'd find that incredibly boring.
>nobody even went back and prevented the original human Genoshans from taking mutants as slaves, which is pretty big gesture from people like Cable or Bishop who have absolutely got the power to do that if their backstories are in the slightest bit credible
Those dudes were originally human, no mutant is gonna expend any effort to prevent humans from being (forcefully) turned into mutants. Funny conundrum for them; is it better to let people suffer in chattel slavery if you get more mutants in the end?
Poccy will throw a shitfit when someone suggests making Krakoa Great Again due to muh survival of the fittest
Brevoort has no plan for it he just needs MCU/97 synergy for his shitty flop era. They'll beat Orchis and go "Well I guess that's that" and then not try again because why would they try a system that was easily fixable.
NO MORE MUTANT GENOCIDE STORIES
Except if Orchis is doing it and everyone can resurrect. Finally the X-Men are winning.
IDK what the frick they're thinking. Also they'll still have the resurrection protocols going forward so why even bother with this shit
The most succinct explanation is that Krakoa, the living being, will stop going along with their plans. Everyone kinda overlooked the whole thing was literally built on his back.
The Orchis battle isn't over. The human side of Orchis is defeated but Nimrod is getting ready to launch a planetary assault using an entire planet's worth of Sentinels that have been built in secret to kill human and mutant alike to create conditions to summon a Dominion and merge with it alongside Moira and Omega Sentinel.
BUT Omega Sentinel is unknowingly a pawn of Nathan Enigma Essex, who cut a deal with Moira to have her merge with him but retain her free will/individuality (not knowing Xavier put something yet revealed into her mind that is now part of Enigma), since Enigma only gained power of a Dominion by exploiting Sinister's save scumming clone machine and needs Moira to do an unknown task in order to allow Enigma to enter the greater Marvel Multiverse as right now he's stuck only able to interact with the 616 universe.
Also, ten gets you twenty Krakoa stays mostly populated solely as a dumping ground for unused mutant characters.
>Also, ten gets you twenty Krakoa stays mostly populated solely as a dumping ground for unused mutant characters.
This seems the most likely scenario to me since nothing's actually happened to the island and they actively avoided one potential cataclysmic event (Jean using the M'Krann crystal to torch Krakoa to stop orchis)
oh yeah i keep trying to memory hole that they threw karima's character into the fricking garbage
how many characters have been totally shat on by making them villains and disposable in this era? moira of course, abagail brand and karima at least.
beast also got made into a villain and then replaced with a clone of himself
So really everything is Sinister's fault?
like with everything - reset button
how old are you? seriously, how OLD ARE YOU
I wish they had collapsed under their own hubris and not "ohlmao the big bad humans pulled a false flag" was that really too much to ask
Cause nobody trusts the mutants anymore, even less than they did before. The so-called promise for Krakoa amounted to "You'll keep getting your life-extending drugs from us so long as you stay on your side of the line and we'll stay on our island". But they didn't. They took over Mars, showing that they were never going to be content with just one dinky little paradise island. The world learned of Mr. Sinister's and by extension the X-men's plans to conquer the galaxy and rub humanity into dust, even before Orchis got its propaganda arm to try shit. They've been shown time and again poking the bears of the universe and smugly acting like nothing could stop them, only to be shocked and angered when people turn on them for doing that. Even the miracle drugs they bribed the world with were tainted from the start, and that's even before Orchis got involved with their kill switch.
Simply put, the only way anyone would ever accept the X-men at all, much less the regular mutant population, is through comic books just making people plain ignore an entire section of history yet again. Cause otherwise, nobody would ever fricking trust the buttholes who said they could keep asswipes like Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister under control only to go "oopsie doodle" when they couldn't.
>But they didn't. They took over Mars
What's the issue with this? It's an unclaimed planet
Outer Space Treaty
Trust me, I get the idea, but I don't think the parallel worked quite as Hickman intended since there's a stark difference in hoarding up scientists to work on your space program and installing them as your equals on your government oligarchy
At least Sinister came back to bite them all big time.
>Outer Space Treaty
They are still operation within that, by sayings mutants are taking it instead of Krakoa.
I don't think that's how it works, man
Loophole always do
Except it's not a loophole because they've numerous people with direct connections to the X-men and the Quiet Council/Krakoa as a whole, especially Magneto and Storm aka Ms. Self-titled Voice of the Solar System, not only living on Mars but directly terraforming and working in its government on behalf of Krakoa. That ain't no loophole, man, cause they're not even pretending that Arakko gets to decide to do whatever it wants to do (cause if they did, they'd have invaded Earth within five minutes of boredom)
>Outer Space Treaty
Ignoring the fact that Krakoa as a country didn't sign the treaty, humanity violated it first (Space Wakanda is the first example that comes to mind and there are most definitely others. Stark building a planet-cracking Dyson Laser near the Sun most definitely violates it as well).
Also, you must be naive if you think this treaty won't be thrown into trash the very moment easy and cheap ways to colonize space are developed and implemented.
Who knows what Dr doom has up there
Point was more that shit like the Outer Space Treaty is the only reason why the whole "world outside your window" continues to be a thing in Marvel, so the idea that the X-men were going to be perpetually exempt from that shit when the Fantastic Four and Avengers somehow aren't allowed is laughable as hell.
That was pretty much the whole sentiment during the Krakoa arc, constant exemptions for the whole thing to work:
>mutants can sell miracle cures and countries just jump on the opportunity despite that other individuals have made various kinds of miracle cures in the past, but are dissuaded by private and government interests to not further develop or distribute them
>Mars and other planets have had various terrestrial projects going on, but only on a minor scale, small outposts and the like in case shit really hits the fan, yet mutants are allowed to take an entire planet for their own use
>death has been made trivial in other parts of Marvel through various means from cloning to outright resurrection via magic or science, like Jackal or the Hood/Hand resurrecting the Punisher's family but the mutant cloning process is considered groundbreaking and a shock to the rest of Marvel when it's revealed
The Avengers actively fought Ultron, Hank Pym gets shit on ALL THE TIME, they acknowledge that Ultron was a tragic accident. Krakoa destroyed an entire nation just to keep their monopoly on a miracle cure.
In a better world the X-men colonizing Mars should have been the point where "world outside your window" got thrown out. Fricking finally turn Marvel full Sci-fi you cowards
>even less than they did before
BUT HUMANS NEVER TRUSTED MUTANTS. GOD, MARVEL IS SO moronic
Ever heard of X-Statix?
Did they really invite actual nazis to live on Krakoa? What the frick. Was this at least used as a plot point somewhere?
Nope, they just ignored the sheer irony of the X-men railing against the fascists in Orchis despite outright nominating motherfricking Gorgon to be part of the X-men aka the public facing superhero team for Krakoa and mutantdom.
At the start it was more of an operation paperclip thing. There was obvious paralleling between mutants, Orchis and the A.I all concerned with their people's survival. Krakoa taking in the villains including the eugenics guys paralleled Orchis being a mix of SHIELD, AIM, SWORD, STRIKE and a small percentage of HYDRA.
And Alpha Flight, connecting back to Hickmanvengers.
They're gonna have to blow up Krakoa to defeat Eva Angel Moira.
So who's Traitor X? Suppose to be revealed today, right?
It's Xavier dumdum
I don't think krakoa is going away just that the named mutants won't live there anymore. I have a feeling the "regular" people there are gonna be fed up with the Quiet Council shit and just evict all the named characters permanently.
I doubt Krakoa itself would agree to another stint of mutants living on it without just eating them outright this time.
Xavier mind controlled almost every mutant into walking into a gate and for all they knew he was sending them into the vacuum of space. In fact that's what he thought what happened. There's no going back.
On top of this, Krakoa was only able to exist as a nation because of their miracle drugs. Orchis tainted their drugs. Yeah, they fixed the problem, but who is even going to bother with them now? Trust gone is forever broken.
Considering Mr. Sinister had used those same drugs to essentially infect the rest of humanity with his evilness before Orchis found out that back door, I think the wonder drugs were always destined to fail, it was just a matter of sooner rather than later
How can they not have any internal food production? Doesn't Arakko have hydroponics or something if it's existed for centuries (or millennia)?
Internal fruit production is based on Krakoa's life energies which is based on how much it can suck out of the mutants living on top of it via energy vampirism. It's likely that with their continuing population boom, over-farming of Krakoa would have reached a point it would need to start sucking mutants dead to keep feeding the rest (one dude already got sent to jail for accidentally digging too deep a hole in Krakoa, causing it to eat three people dead to rebuild to soil)
>Trust gone is forever broken.
If the oil industry has thought me anything then it's the simple fact that people will look the other way to get something. We all know the shady shit the oil nations are involved in, but do we care? No because we need their oil to fuel our cars, to produce electricity and a whole lot of other shit.
That dib that their sales is having? It will return
Krakoan drugs were tainted on a mass scale and it happened under their watch. People will stick to safe human-made drugs.
Ultron, a creation of a founding Avenger, is responsible for a genocide of an entire nation and multiple near-ends of the world, yet Avengers are still largely trusted by the population. Why should Sinister/Orchis/whoever sabotaging Krakoa's drugs be treated any differently?
Everyone hates Hank Pym.
Does Pym get shat on for making Ultron or for slapping Jan that one time though?
All the time. He was alright called a wife beater throughout Civil War, and he always blames himself whenever Uktrin so much as sneezes. Tony Stark had the idiocy to bring up the slap to flipping Pymtron in Secret Empire.
No-no, you misunderstood the question. Do people hate him more for inventing Ultron... or do they hate him more for slapping Jan across the room?
Depends on who's writing it at the time, but usually Jan. And only because Ultron has basically made himself such a recurrent problem beyond Pym's capacity to monitor perpetually that it'd be as awkward to constantly blame Pym for it as it would be to blame Captain America for not somehow destroying HYDRA entirely.
That honestly would have been the worst time to do it considering how many false starts Marvel has made before, like with Carol Danvers being given a blank check to not only deal with space shit but also befriend the Guardians of the Galaxy to essentially put involve Earth in the galaxy's affairs after decades of aliens shitting on Earth.
Slapping Jan, weirdly enough Pym is the only one who shits on himself when it comes to Ultron
Ultron is his own being existing separately from his creator. Blaming Pym for Ultron would be like blaming your dad for you killing someone. They're not comparable to what is essentially state-ordered mass poisoning.
>Blaming Pym for Ultron would be like blaming your dad for you killing someone
Happens all the time though, the families of murderers and other scumbags get harrassed all the time, especially parents who get a lot of the blame since they raised the killer. Hell we just saw two parents get sent to jail for their kid shooting up his school (they did fricking deserve it) and I don't think they're gonna be the last. Also wrongful death suits ALWAYS get dropped on the family of killers.
Oil is taint, how much blood has been spilt by it? How many oil spills have we had? Oil companies are still around stronger than ever
>Oil is taint, how much blood has been spilt by it?
This does not affect the average oil user. Would you seriously take a drug that made people murderously crazy?
>Would you seriously take a drug that made people murderously crazy?
We do that already, we call it alcohol.
These are all really shitty and weak reasons to end this arc.
Do you want the far more blunt and boring "They were given a two year extension to do whatever they wanted with Krakoa and essentially blew their load already on all the mutant island stories they want to tell, so there's no further real incentive to keep it going" instead?
People need to accept that humans will always hate and try to genocide mutants, and that mutants will always be a minority and never be their own nation.
That's just how X-men comics work.
Has this week's books been storytimed yet?
They're not ripped yet
When was the last time the X-Men foiled a bank robbery or something
They did it during krakoa, tourist
"The drugs were tainted that one time" feels like an easy to correct error in a system that's only failing because of letting a one-time problem become some kind of insurmountable issue. Sinister tried to take over? Okay you kicked him out and he can't do it again. Drugs tainted? Problem solved. Orchis? All but exterminated. Everyone can literally just come back and rebuild. So what the frick is the issue? Is this gonna be some moronic NO WE CAN'T TRY THIS THING THAT WE COULD EASILY CORRECT WE MUST STOP ALL OF IT FOREVER thing? God status quo resets are idiotic.
You're not seeing the big picture here. Krakoa was designed to be fricked from the start, but in-universe the entire reason people even bothered was because X-men Disassembled was basically the equivalent of the straw that broke the camel's back. So many once-in-a-lifetime events like the destruction of Genosha, House of M, Decimation, all the appearances of the Phoenix, the Terrigen Mist clouds going global, all of that is shit by themselves are events that were "one-time problems" too, but obviously there comes a point where you can only suffer so many "one-time problems" before you decide you've had enough and just want out. It's the same, except here a lot of the problems are falling upon the X-men for being in charge of their mutant paradise and yet STILL encountering so many ridiculous problems within the span of five years. They booted Mr Sinister from their circle after hearing all the shit he had planned. Onslaught came back and nearly ate them all. Orchis invaded their island. They got booted several dimensions away from Earth. They found out all the many, many, MANY lies and horrible plans that Xavier and the Quiet Council hid from them for DECADES just to get their stupid island functioning. At what point is all the bullshit involving the X-men enough? Doesn't there come a point where the problem isn't just because humans are dicks but also your own community allowing absolutely selfish chodes like Magneto and Professor X to install themselves as mutant kings without any kind of pushback whatsoever with the X-men as their loyal guard dogs? At what point do you go "This entire thing just isn't goddamn working"?
>hid from them for DECADES
krakoa has been decades in-universe? huh?
Jean Grey basically ratted Xavier out and now everyone knows that he, Erik Leshnerr, and Moira McTaggert were planning the foundation of Krakoa for decades and prepared for it by knowing of all the various mutant massacres and disasters that were going to affect them in the future and...doing nothing about it so that mutantdom would be pushed so far into a corner that they would accept a desperate gambit like forming an ethnostate upon Krakoa, the Living Island in the first place. Meaning that Professor X and Magneto, two of the most active leaders in the mutant community, were privy to all the horrible mutant genocides that would happen decades later and intentionally did nothing to prevent them from happening just for "the plan" to go off without a hitch.
But one scan of Moira's mind will show that those genocide would have happened regardless.
Given how many time travelers and different futures exist, not only is ten lifetimes is such a laughably small sample, I'm sure that the kid whose uncle got blown up by a Sentinel on Genosha would LOVE to hear that his death was completely unavoidable despite knowing how and when it would happen for fifteen years down to the exact date and time.
Yep, every single battle between the X-men and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants was a giant-ass LARP between Xavier and Magneto to keep their followers from finding out the truth. What a great and shocking turn of events, isn't it?
The only way they can fix this is a reboot. Just reboot the whole fricking X-Men side of 616 back to like... before Deadly Genesis when it started to get really bad. Or maybe just before House of M. They can't walk back from this.
Expect them to either completely ignore it when fans bring up the insanely messy implications in the future, or just use a retcon via Moira X to pretend it's fixed when it's not.
Historically, as far as I know Kang doesn't care less about mutants because as far as his own future's concerned they never amounted to anything more than just another footnote alongside the great escapades of the Avengers, really. Reality is, there is no universal standard on what happened to the mutants, the majority of futures regarding the X-gene mutants just end up with them not achieving their dream of being top of the pack and either remaining a super-powered minority or eventually just integrating themselves back into humanity as nothing more than a blip on the universe's radar.
How else was he going to have the ammo needed to finally get Rogue to marry him, lol?
A retcon would have been too clean and easy. No this baggage is staying with us for a while at least.
They have really painted themselves into a corner now.
The classic X-Men era, the one people actually LIKED and that's still driving trade and merch sales several magnitudes more than anything done after 2006 is really not the part of the franchise you should shit on for your crappy island story. Moira X is such a terrible concept in general, an absolute insult to Claremont's character. They should have let her fricking rest in peace and created a new character, this new one might as well be anyway. But no we needed to make it Moira so Charles would trust her and so we could have scenes where she tells the people she cared about that it was all a game, even her own fricking son. And now that it inevitably ends, they don't even have the balls to timeline it like Hickman did with his OWN story in S.H.I.E.L.D so the universe was back to a useable state afterwards. Nope, we're stuck in this awful plot cul-de-sac where they have thrown everything out for just this one story and now we're all gonna be standing high-deep in shit for years to come.
And all because "oh no marvel doesn't do retcons that's just DC being bad haha lol".
>The classic X-Men era, the one people actually LIKED and that's still driving trade and merch sales several magnitudes more than anything done after 2006 is really not the part of the franchise you should shit on for your crappy island story
Why do you speak like people only liked the classic run? Some of the X-men best run has been after house of M
I'm calling it, eventually they'll do some timeline frickery to undo Moira X and get regular non-evil human Moira back. Because honestly who the frick would want this as part of their universe after it's done?
Krakoa era fans apparently. Remember, the X-Men is doomed and will never recover if they get rid of Krakoa. It's just going to be back to endless mutant genocides unlike how it was on the island.
Krakoa fans are only fans of their weird mental idea of Krakoa. They don't give a shit about the X-men. They care nothing about the characters, they don't read older comics and they don't want there to be anything after Krakoa. They're the most navel-gazing group I've seen for a big two franchise
Do you care about the X-Men, prey tell then what should marvel do
So do you want to hear it from a more experienced time traveler then, if Kang says mutants are doomed to die out then is he lying ? Do you think that he out of all people haven't looked into enough time lines
I loved Gillen/Sinister roasting Hickman/Moira over that. Though in fairness to Moira, Destiny told her she would have 10, 11 tries at most, so she knew she was on her last try.
>Yep, every single battle between the X-men and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants was a giant-ass LARP between Xavier and Magneto to keep their followers from finding out the truth.
Don't know how the frick Magneto and Xavier didn't get beat to death for some of the shit they pulled after that was found out. Remember the time Magneto tied up all the X-men and forced them to indulge in his ABDL fetish
That kind of kills the entire X-Man franchise, honestly. So all their conflicts and shit were just a game? Fricking lol that's such a hack retcon I don't even believe they did it.
why was Gambit desperate
IIRC the Moria timelines are left pretty vague with only one being close to the normal timeline. The tenth timeline was the only one to have legion and proteus, so that probably shifted a lot of stuff.
So the various genocides weren't predicted, just that eventually machines would do it.
The Moria, Xavier, Magneto alliance also broke up pretty quicky and only joined back up later on.
Got details wrong....
Moria in her tenth life (IE current Marvel) tricked Xavier to read her thoughts and say how mutantkind always loses in the end becuase man/machine is the real next generation of humanity and not mutantkind.
Moira then gets an alliance of Xavier, Magneto, and Mr Sinister together though the details and specifics are kept ultra vague due to the implications of what Hickman was retconning: that the four were all in a plot to make shit go super super bad (though again, shit is left vague and Hickman pays lip service that Magneto's crimes/bullshit was legit in so far as him and Xavier having a falling out to justify Magneto not faking being evil over how they do shit and Sinister supposedly going rogue when Xavier got sent into space for the second half of the 80s) so that at a particular moment, they can create Krakoa and bring all mutants to it.
In Inferno 2, after Destiny is resurrected against Moira's orders and gets Apocalypse's council seat, Magneto and Xavier tell EMMA FROST (NOT JEAN GREY) about Moira being alive and everything they've done to the detriment of mutantkind. She then tells the rest of the Council this and later, Cyclops who passes the information off to Jean Grey.
Why is Emma such a narc now.
>Moira then gets an alliance of Xavier, Magneto, and Mr Sinister together
I thought it was Xavier and Magneto who bought Sinister on board which Moira was kind of pissed about
It was. The other anon is confused. Sinister betrayed the mutants in the life she had just before the current one. It was because of him that they lost the war to humans and machines. She wanted nothing to do with him, but Chuck and Erik thought they knew better and recruited him to build a DNA archive of every mutant on Earth. That's the limit of his involvement though. He didn't have anything else to do with them until everyone moved to Krakoa.
>your own community allowing absolutely selfish chodes like Magneto and Professor X to install themselves as mutant kings without any kind of pushback whatsoever with the X-men as their loyal guard dogs?
As we've seen time and time again the X-men is an accidental commentary on "might makes right" leadership with mutants almost always falling in line behind the biggest dick. I don't think I've ever seen a mutant community where they rallied behind someone who knew how to run a community but was more or less a normal human
For all his flaws, Shaw is just a businessman. He doesn't actually give a shit about mutant rights, he may as well ally with humans against mutants as long as he makes a profit. So in that way he's probably the most realistic leader the mutant community have ever seen.
Since when are Marvel civilians anything but hateful and mistrustful to an irrational point? They failed Judgment Day after all. They only got a delay because the god was convinced that it was flawed itself and that 24 hours wasn't enough time to deliver a final judgment.
When and where did this happen?
AXE: Judgment Day, Gillen's big event from 2022.
I have wage memories of AXE, was that when several personality was inverted and we got hero carnage?
That was AXIS. AXE was when the Eternals declared war on mutants because they overstepped their bounds with the immortality so Iron Man, a couple of Eternals and Sinister created a new Celestial who would order the Eternals to stop the war and this blew up in everyone's faces when it did that and also decided it was going to deliver a final judgment for everybody.
I should read that
I remember one Anon said that Kang doesn't care about mutants because they die out, all that potential but they always lose.
Eternals, 1976.
AXE honest to god should have just been where they pulled the plug on Krakoa by just having the Celestial nuke it and scatter the mutants to the winds.
It's legitimately a great fricking event until you get to the moronic climax where it retconned how Eternals worked in a way that makes zero sense just to make a shitpost about them and return to the Krakoa status quo when it really needed to be the point where Krakoa finally died.
the only problem i have with krakoa is just how mean it was. it was supposed to be the mutant paradise, and yet most of the time was spent tearing into each other verbally (and sometimes physically), and alienating their human allies. they fixed that last part later on, but overall it was just so fricking mean.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Whose bright idea was it to take all the evil stories bigots make up about minorities and make them true about the mutants (and the x-men too). Like, who thought that was a good idea?
white supremacists say : x will not replace us
mutants: we shall replace you
racists say : sure I love my race and prefer it, but every person thinks so of their race, it's natural
mutants: we are superior to you flatscans
anti semites say : israelites actually control the economy and media and politics and ensure only those who support them can get into power
mutants: we will control the economy with our drugs, affect politics and ensure only those who don't have anti-mutant agendas (as we define them, of course) can influence the world
Did no one get the problem with that?
>We shall replace you the same way homosexual sapiens replaced homosexual Erectus
>Yeah I have no rebuke on the superior claim
>They are just doing what everyone with power is doing, using their resources to push their agenda.
>I shall say lies about replacing you, when mutants clearly have been proven to be a subspecies of sapiens who can even birth "normal" sapiens via two mutant parents, with the x-men for years saying mutants are human in the past
>good
>x-men, literal superheroes falling to the level of shitheel real world governments is supposedly okay
tfw we live in a world where X-Men fans love pulling out the calipers
What a time to be alive
I imagine that's most people. I only harp on it because the allegory has eaten up so much of what the X-Men is nowadays and the ideology they're depicted to believe in is very schizo-brained.
If they sold it like the way we replaced Neanderthals I don't think anyone would have a problem
>Mandated smoking hot mutant wives for everyone
>The primest mutie beefcake outside of Krakoa all for the taking
The funny fricking thing is canonically in Marvel we already had this song and dance.
The Celestials modified homosexual Erectus into three species for their experiment.
homosexual Descendus: The Deviants, high population, universally high variability of power, dominated the entire planet until the Celestials randomly threw a shitfit for some reason.
homosexual Eternus: The Eternals, low population curve, universal immense powers. They immediately misunderstood the assignment and tapped out to just play referee.
And the last one?
homosexual Neanderthalensis: who got average population curves, and the X gene to give them a random chance of highly variable powers that could spike higher or lower than the extreme ends of the Deviants.
homosexual Neanderthalensis got blown the frick out by the ancestors of homosexual Sapiens who weren't even supposed to fricking exist, despite the Eternals having dropped out of the race to prevent that, the Apocalypse Succession existing to prevent that, and the Evolutionaries being Phastos's little frick up who also made it their lifes' goal to prevent that.
Defacto, Mutants have had close to half a million fricking years and a head start on the whole "Will replace humanity" thing but it's total horseshit because humans evolved by random chance and fricking *replaced them* by winning in the evolutionary arms race, which kinda makes sense when you realize every pre-human mutant civilization other than Threshhold which was a time travel gimmick ultimately is just cave people with superpowers being babied by no less than 4 fricking space god plot devices if you want to throw the Phoenix's obsession with Jean Grey's ancestors on top of the shit the Celestials left behind.
Mutants literally only exist in the modern day because modern humans fricked their ancestors out of existence and now they aren't even a true species, just a random fluke acting as a trophy of the time Grug managed to score himself some sweet, tight slopehead pussy.
It's so funny how that corner of Marvel is the product of Jack Kirby's mind being blown when he saw 2001. I love bringing it up
This is the best thing about it. If homosexual "superior" truly was the "next" fricking step in evolution (a total fantasy concept that doesn't exist) they had so many chances to take it (the glacial maximum, the great cataclysm when Atlantis and Lemuria sank, the Hyborian age,prehistory, etc. All those times when it would have been easy for a "superior" species to swoop in while Grug was busy trying to just survive. But they didn't because they're not superior, nor are they an emergent species. They're a bunch of random evolutionary flukes that just come out now and then with no rhyme or reason and are genotypically indistinguishable from baseline humans anyway.
One of the biggest issues with the X-men is that despite a chunk of the narrative being a "minority metaphor" the majority like 99% of the writers were white or israeli. I think you can count the amount of non-white/israeli writers on one hand. You can end up with VERY skewed perspectives when all your writers are white middle/upper middle class late liberal types
The X-Men were created by two israelites. Gifted Youngsters always meant israelites.
I sorta agree with you. I don't think it's as simple as getting from outside those backgrounds since "actually the bigots are right but it's a good thing" talking points are popular even in minority circles. We have shit like Hoteps after all. Then again, a lot of that traces back to middle to upper class israelites and whites so maybe it is that simple. I don't fricking know.
It is kinda amusing how the X-Men nowadays can be viewed as pretty good commentary on how race relations are in the dumps
Honestly there ain't no saving it beyond just going back to classic super heroics. 9/10 even if they hire a minority they're gonna hire a dude (actually lets be honest it's gonna be a woman) who is ideologically similar to them or had a similar middle class to upper middle class background. And if someone based DOES get through the net his book either pissess off a chunk of the fandom and sells like shit (LaVelle's Sabertooth/Exiles) or he gets fired on bullshit grounds (the dude who showran X-men 97). I have already come to accept that the X-men is mostly a play ground for so called "good" white liberals to act out their worst impulses
Marvel status quo reshuffling never makes sense. You just deal with it, pretty much. Same as ever. Marvel is its own worst enemy.
Because keeping the most hated people on Earth in one permanent position is stupid.
Is it a widespread believe among mutants that they are the next step in evolution or is it just Magneto who believes that?
It used to be purely the belief of the bad guys but because of games of telephone over time you had people like Xavier and the X-Men espouse it too.
It used to be Magneto's thing but it's increasingly become the X-Men's thing too in stories starting around the start of the 21st century. Then Krakoa happened which is very much built on that idea and 99% of mutants lived there so it became a thing mutants as a whole believe
It's probably worth bringing up that a big chunk of writers and fans like to view Magneto as a tragic hero justifiably lashing out at his oppressors and how they'd be on his side if the X-Men were real.
Magnetogays are experts in the art of cope
Can you imagine how bad other comics would be if their main antagonist was viewed the same? I get it, you can't make everything static nor would I want that but lol
Oh believe me, Doomgays try.
Krakoa fricking sucked and had zero good comics.
The stuff by Spurier, Gillen, Lavalle, and Holtham that took the whole thing to task was cool, as was Ewing's due mostly to not really dealing with Krakoa.
correct