So I started watching the Justice League recently and it's really great, but there's one thing that kinda bugs me. Why do all the members come across as overwhelmingly weak? Superman gets put out of comission by generic laser guns, the Flash seems to forget he has super speed most of the time, etc. Every other episode is the entire team getting smacked down and imprisoned. Gives me the same vibes as Worf always getting his ass kicked to show how strong the villain of the week is, even though he's supposed to be this hardened Klingon warrior.
I guess they wanted stakes.
I get it, it'd be pointless for Superman to show up and clean house every time, it's just that sometimes the power level juxtaposition comes across as really jarring. It feels like they could still have stakes if they used more alternatives to the whole team getting owned up together, like the heavy hitters getting distracted by something or diverted from the main threat.
Damn, son, relax. I'm currently a few episodes into season 2 and just wanted to hear some opinions.
Samegay
Why did you think my follow-up post was a different person when I made it clear I was the OP
God, legal departments ruin everything.
Nice photoshop c**t.
Dipshit
Mostly coz it's a kids show. It'd be difficult to make it entertaining and stay in budget if everyone had to be super powerful all the time. Or you can headcanon that because there's a meta human arms race regular people have stepped up tech wise so they have stuff that can harm even the tougher supers.
The first season sucked ass. So saying it's "great" is already a red flag. Even as a kid I forgot it existed.
Also I know you already watched the entire show. Your just lying so you start a discussion on this dead IP, homosexual.
The first season didnt suck, if anything the DCAU is the most consistently high quality capeshit around.
>How dare he discuss a cartoon on the cartoons board!
Cinemaphile brainrot is a pandemic
You must've been a boring kid
No even as a kid, I had fricking standards. If you're not an idiot, it's very easy to tell when something sucks ass.
Because Batman.
Bruce Timm is an idiot and the only way too make his husbando look good, was by making everyone who had actual powers look weak.
Then Batgod could save the day and look good by comparison. If Timm was still involved and they still used his models but he was NO LONGER in charge and someone else had been in position for final say, with the same writers and creatives, this aspect of the series would have been vastly different.
I assume some of the really good episodes we got would potentially not exist because Timm's stupidity and forced absurd limitations probably forced the writers to be more creative than they might have managed absent Timm's imbecilic ways. But I suspect that overall the show would have been better. Plus, Timm would still be in the room, going 'But Batman' every two seconds, he just wouldn't be able to FORCE everyone to do his bidding.
>Batgod
Did you even watch the cartoon? He basically does frick all in lots of episodes, and has to be rescued a whole bunch of times as well. And by JL:U he doesn't even show up often.
Batgod is a Morrison thing, not present at all in the DCAU. Of course, in the big episodes everyone needs to have something to do. What'd be the fun of having Batman in the team and just have it waiting everything out 'cause he's got no superpowers?
And other characters like Question or Green Arrow also get a similar treatment but you never see anyone b***hing about it.
FRICKING THIS. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY WATCHED THE SHOW AND DIDN'T ZOOM ON 2 FRICKING SCENES. I thought I was going crazy because I barely recalled frick all Batman did in this show.
Batman bankrolled the space station and otherwise had little to do with Justice League stuff from what I recall. He was always there for the big throw-downs but day-to-day episodes mostly featured Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, or Flash. At most you'd see Batman up in the watch tower at the computer.
he just saw the 15 minute clip on youtube of every scene with Batman in JLU. Like didnt we have an episode where all of batmans villain's were made he was with the league and they did something big? Only the rest of the league were just mildly annoyed and baffled he deals with this psychopaths all the time before the league.
I think the only batgod in the DCAU moment is the whole Batman Beyond thing where Waller goes from anti league to all of a sudden thinking we need batman all the time to the point she had an entire project to groom Terry into being the next batman.
And as stated before, no one liked that decision
jlu's lexwank is ten times worse than its batwank
It was a billion times worse. The character was good, brilliant, but overall, Lex was annoying as FRICK in this show. In fact, Lex is always getting a pass. Like I get complaining about Batman in some comics, but guess what? No one cares about comicbooks. Lex is borderline omnipotent in the damn movies, turning into a fricking Zeus clone in the cartoons, beating an entire superteam by dancing...like come on.
>Why do all the members come across as overwhelmingly weak?
so they have to work together to solve problems. that's the whole point of the show.
The amount of lying is this thread is FRICKING pathetic. I don't know a single person in real life who grew up this shit holding these opinions outside a few bad episodes in the first season. I fricking hate all you, I hate all of DC fans, I fricking hate people who blame Batman for everything, frick Superman fans for b***hing about shit that was never a problem, frick John fans and their insecure asses. They are always seeing shit that NEVER happened and it's always with this show. Go frick yourself, I HATE ALL OF YOU.
internet contrarians ruin everything.
Lots of them around the board today, is Reddit down or something?
People have nothing else to do but complain and exaggerate. "Touch grass" isn't just a meme, it's real advice so you won't lose lose touch of reality.
Let me put it this way.
We used to get a lot of Gorrilaz threads
I do not care for nor understand the popularity of the Gorillaz
At no point did I go into those threads to tell them that Gorillaz is bad and they are bad for liking it.
long story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTlYNSwzK_0&t=67s&pp=ygUTc3VwZXJtYW4gY2hlZWtib25lcw%3D%3D
I really recommend checking this out
Essentially, it boiled down to
>Superman is strong
>Enemy is strong
>If enemy can knock down Superman, it implies he's tough instantly (but not necessarily strong enough to defeat him)
>Accidentally use this short-cut multiple times in succession makes Superman look weak instead
They said that they were too focused on specific stories (with the every story being multiple episodes at first not helping) rather than the whole picture and it wasn't until they watched episode after episode that they realized that they kept pulling from the same well and it having unintended effects.
That's why later on, almost immediately in season 2, that stops happening at the same frequency or they qualify it like 'Superman tanked the hit to see how strong his opponent was, so he could gauge how much power to use so he didn't go overboard.'
Martian Manhunter on the other hand, they admit was too OP for their purposes of a story-based show, but he was also essential for plots points they wanted to explore and was an existing character they liked but couldn't change without fundamentally making an OC, so they had to intentionally find ways to maneuver around him or debuff him. Flash was in a similar boat, but they had the caveat of saying Wally was a more in-experienced Flash and didn't understand the full scope of his powers and his lack of seriousness was a foil to use.
It's not really about making them seem weaker or tougher for character purposes, but to make an interesting story. Is that a cop-out? Maybe? But it's been an issue with any character that breaks the average reality of which he inhabits, especially Superhero comics.
Thanks, that's just the explanation I was looking for. Makes me appreciate how difficult it must've been to keep things interesting while also trying not to misrepresent characters.
Oh, it gets even worse when they have scripts for characters in-progress (like the Blue Beetle) and mid-production, WB Lawyers come in and tell them 'you can't use them.' when you're already past the planning phase. That's (part) of the reason Batman was only a 'part-timer' at the apex of the show, in case it flopped, WB still wanted to use him and didn't want him tarnished after BTAS proved to be such a critical success. It's also (partially) why the Batman embargo didn't allow for use of a ton of his roster, characters, and history. Those were Batman toys. But, how can you fully explore a character when you're not allowed to use aspects of his identity? And it was like that with a ton of supporting character or lore that existed between multiple heroes. There were so many cornerstones of DC that they wanted to explore that were wrangled off because of bureaucrat in a different associated company across the country decided against it for reasons even the crew weren't always allowed to know (aka because the suits felt like it.)
All things considered, the DCAU was fantastic for what it was, but it'll always bother me it's only a taste of something that could have been even better if everything was on the table, and I don't think we'll ever get a second chance at that again. Plenty of new shows. New movie series. We have similar incarnations now. But, I don't think we'll ever get a whole multi-piece universe from DC of the same caliber.
There was an Aquaman embargo too that's why he was barely in the show.
How many embargos for heroes were going on at the time it was airing?
>Aquaman Embargo
This is the first time I've ever heard of this, and also I'm confused as frick because at that point who the frick cared THAT much about Aquaman?
The embargos were only there to stop brand confusion.
In Smallville, Clark wasn't allowed to be Superman and they were blocked in the beginning from using Silver Age content in JL
Aquaman barely appeared because his apperance in Smallville and a cartoon that was suppose to be made
Wonder Woman was almost not used at all in Justice League due to a similar embargo
Batman had another cartoon in development hence why his supporting cast got cut
>and a cartoon that was suppose to be made
There was also a live action pilot at the time, that was kind of a Smallville dead but with Aquaman so that probably also had something to do with it.
Yeah, my understanding is that the whole play-by-play of events was never revealed publicly, but essentially someone at WB/DC decided that Aquaman was going to be big in the new millennium. They were going to have a spin-off series from Smallville and potentially a movie-series, among other projects. They had 'plans' and were essentially re-booting the character in the public eye and they didn't want a 'new' Aquaman in the animated series to confuse the brand, so he was off-limits. But, this didn't make sense to anyone making the show since comic fans are familiar with the character, he was still being used in the comics, and he had already appeared in-universe. So, they had to essentially ask to use him in the most smallest of doses and deal with multiple days of approvals (and sometimes being denied after several exchanges of back and forth, and it previously being okay) that they mostly washed their hands of it, except when they really wanted to use him to make the rigmarole worth the effort. Then, the Smallville spin-off didn't pan out and the movies went through production problems, that the restraints were loosened but never removed.
We don't know. The Bat Embargo really only caught on because it was a catchy name, and the rules applied more overtly to Batman (and the crew was more public about that) than the other characters. It impacted all of them though, to some extent. Like prior to Justice Loge, General Zod wasn't allowed to be in Superman's show (with the rumor being something about the movie rights holding some character rights in some television capacity.) The crew has said in interviews over the years some specifics, like the general run down with Aquaman, but they've admitted there is stuff they weren't allowed to even comment on, without potentially punishment from WB. Generally, any OC was a character they had planned for but lost the ability to use.
Timm has some issues and bad quirks but honestly the DCAU is just as a whole extremely solid. Even when given the chance to make something with Justice League Gods and Monsters I have seen people here even wish he was given more of a chance with that elseworld story.
DC was killing it with their 2000s cartoons honestly.
Superman doesn't have to ba omnipotent.
I fricking hate you power level morons so much
>Unsurprisingly, the rewiring of our brains that negative people set in motion, leads to us having cognitive biases that play into the hands of psychological disorders such as depression and anxiety.
>Negative attitudes can even influence our mental capacity and intelligence, with studies showing that the areas of the brain that govern reasoning and memory are compromised by negativity.
Really good series. I loved seeing one hero's rogues interact with different heroes and villains. First season is filled with iconic episodes, literally all of them are memorable. Then in season 2 where we get the Legion of Doom and you see villains of all types teaming up. I personally wish we got just one more season so we could get more of it but it ended in a nice place. Side note it also has my favorite Joker design which makes me sad we didn't see more of him.
>Superman
M8, Martian Manhunter was the worse offender, he was a green Superman with mind powers and ghost walk and he was screaming most of the time.
When you really think about, this line up of the Justice League should never, ever lose. I think the writers realized how bad the situation was in Unlimited because the original 7 very rarely ever fought together.
Warner bros deserves to die.