Holy kek.
This is Exhibit A what normalgays mean when they say you guys are incels that don't understand women
A rape fantasy is just that: a fantasy. Any of you that buy into this pop psychology bullshit should hang from a rope
Who fricking knows. The third act torpedoed the entire plot so fricking hard I have no idea what the hell the screenwriters were trying to say with the film.
>ACTUALLY she was a good wife who was loyal despite being mistreated >ACTUALLY she was even better at managing the manor than her husband, no this has no relevance on the plot >ACTUALLY Le Gris was awkward and aggressive despite being known as a ladies man >ACTUALLY Carrouge didn't love his wife at all but was willing to fight to the death over her rape despite not being phased about it when she told him >ACTUALLY Carrouge was also an awkward braggart who wasn't good at his job despite being knighted while La Gris remained a squire well into his 40's
>Carrouge didn't love his wife at all but was willing to fight to the death over her rape despite not being phased about it when she told him
Do you have no concept of honor? Raping his wife is as grievous an offense as you can level at a knight.
Bro do you remember the scene? She tells him, he gets mad at her, is a little peeved, then tells her to take her clothes off so that "[Le Gris] won't be the last one to have been in you" or some moronic bullshit.
Why is it that male feminists, the biggest pussy desiccant on the planet, are the exclusive users of this term? Is it because being an incel is the thing you're most ashamed about and you think being called that will hurt those hecking Cinemaphileers as much as it hurts you?
It's because they, like all leftists, are possessed by a devouring and chaotic feminine spirit, and do what women do: project their own negative qualities onto others.
Why is it that male feminists, the biggest pussy desiccant on the planet, are the exclusive users of this term? Is it because being an incel is the thing you're most ashamed about and you think being called that will hurt those hecking Cinemaphileers as much as it hurts you?
that this was triggered by someone just saying the word "incel" is making your posts hilarious
2 years ago
Anonymous
>like, like I can't even...
We must have been right on the money to make you seethe so openly
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can't write anything over your 100 letter cap
Tell me you're a twittertroon without telling me you're a twittertroon.
>they're still at it with zero self-awareness
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah lmao, you just triggered a conversation you don't like, you expected your troony wordcalling to own someone, but it didn't, you just stood out like a moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>like, like I can't even...
We must have been right on the money to make you seethe so openly
Why is it that male feminists, the biggest pussy desiccant on the planet, are the exclusive users of this term? Is it because being an incel is the thing you're most ashamed about and you think being called that will hurt those hecking Cinemaphileers as much as it hurts you?
triggered
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, you are quite triggered. You're so fricking mad you can't even make a comeback, just red facedly throwing out buzzwords. Your impotent rage is life sustaining. It's also what is causing you to go bald in your twenties.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>self-awareness
Self awareness of what anon? Are you ashamed or something? Is someone watching you?
Its kinda sad to see people so paranoid of getting socially shamed on internet, but gives a clear perspective on why do you try and use incel as an insult, you are conditioned to think "someone" (women, potential partners likely) is watching and judging you on a anonymous chinese imageboard.
Grim
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can't write anything over your 100 letter cap
Tell me you're a twittertroon without telling me you're a twittertroon.
Generally paranoia and desperation, most male feminists are sexless virgins that would do anything to pour their penis somehow, they believe that beta-orbiting females while worshipping the only value female mind understands (sexual value) they'll get some sex, its more of a pavlovian conditioning phenomena, very subconscious, they don't really understand why do they do it either, let alone get anything from it.
It kind of made the other 2/3rds a frivolous waste of time.
It was a damn shame. Despite everything else about the film, it's probably the most realistically-portrayed medieval drama ever made. It accurately shows how life and society was, what the lives of knights were actually like, how social interactions and the legal system worked, etc. From that perspective it's an incredibly refreshing movie that tries really hard to show a living world, and not like most other medieval films that show society as being nearly post-apocalyptic with no government or social interactions beyond fighting.
And it all is rendered fricking moot by the third act, which is some feminist revisionist nonsense.
The ceremony where he swears fealty to Affleck is just how they did it medieval France. There are descriptions of this in historical documents and the words and actions are pretty much perfect
Ya it's a feminist fanfic right, where her husband doesn't give a shit about anything but his honor, she loses all her friends, and eventually admits to regretting even making the accusation. Then credits roll to a crowd cheering her husband while she is ignored. Yup, feminism. I have never seen a movie filter people so hard.
>Yup, feminism
Yes, feminism. Are you stupid or just impossibly ignorant on the feminist eternal victim narrative? What the frick do you think A Handmaid's Tale is?
I don't watch shit a handmaids tale I am not gay sorry. You being filtered isn't my problem. And I guess by your definition anything with women being miserable is now feminist? What a fricking joke.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And I guess by your definition anything with women being miserable is now feminist? What a fricking joke.
...bro do you not interact with women?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Unlike you yes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Go to sleep child. Cinemaphile will rot your brain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why don't you poltards just frick off leave instead of ruining every board you touch. Don't you have some vatnik wiener suck over there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lol fricking homosexual go back to basedddit, Cinemaphile or whatever /lgbt/ orbiter you came from, Cinemaphile was always and will always be like this.
Now keep malding, dilating and sneed.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The rent-free nature of this post is most satisfying
I think your dumb, very dumb. It was obvious without the third act careouge was a autist. Being knighted was for war, nobody ever implied he was anything but an excellent soldier. Most medeivel lords were absolutely shit at managing their estates. So his wife being better is 50/50, also he was an autistic sperg so more like 80/20 towards the wife. And finally rape is a property crime, his anger had nothing to do with her or her feelings he was robbed. She even admits in the movie she should have just shut her fricking mouth later on.
>And finally rape is a property crime, his anger had nothing to do with her or her feelings he was robbed.
As we all know, men didn't love women until the 19th Amendment was ratified.
Oh okay so the film lingered on the word "Truth" for her segment as, what, a red herring? Do you not know who wrote her perspective in the screenplay? A feminist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Holofcener
movies are made by conscious authors with deliberate intentions. the plot is not its own entity but a vehicle for their biases.
some movies are unapologetic about this. others try to hide it. some authors just have subtle biases.
this movie is no different.
every movie produced after 1990 is femoid semitic idiot propaganda.
I thought pretty much everyone except Matt Damon did a pretty good job. Driver was fantastic as always and the supporting cast were a bunch of competent, professional character actors. Jodie Coomer had a little too much doe-eyed stuff going on but was solid, and I actually liked Affleck's b***hy and hedonistic character. But Damon sucked huge balls. Legitimately one of his worst performances.
All valid points. Don’t listen to people defending the third act.
The fact the film declares HER version as the truth ruins any sort of discussion about what really happened. Also her story is just typical 2020s feminism.
Ok. Say it had no indication and the three were presented with no difference. How is hers still not the most credible? There's big holes in both of the other two accounts that are only filled in by seeing them through other eyes.
Pretty much.
Third act make no sense as it just repeats everything we knew but makes everybody seem shittier.
I assumed her act will be the "truth" one where we learn shes a cheating bawd and trying to get her husband killed or something, but nope.
Still i hated the movie more for the visuals, what a fricking ugly, blue, dark movie with moronic looking armor and moronic looking sets.
>there’s no way the womens perspective could possibly be the correct one! I can’t believe they RUINED the movie by saying her view was the truth >women enjoy rape, I know because I’ve had a lot of sex
classic /misc/ incel opinions
>there’s no way the womens perspective could possibly be the correct one!
there's no way anyone today could know, but to sell it as the truth shows bias. The truth generally falls somewhere between the two sides, and when you're centuries removed it gets even murkier. This movie was pandering
>The truth generally falls somewhere between the two sides
That's one thing that really irked me about the story. Marguerite's perspective IS Carrouge's perspective. Carrouge obviously believed his wife completely (in real life) which is why he was willing to die in duel to prove her innocence. So anything she told him, is the truth according to Carrouge. The ONLY reason her perspective exists as a separate chapter is to make a moronic feminist statement, and basically chastise the audience for trying to decide between the two other accounts.
It's actually quite an insulting film, and it's no wonder it flopped hard at the box office. Even lefty film critics were saying things like >Doesn't the third act structurally undermine the entire plot of the film?
Bro we have actual historical records about the court case and duel.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And? Is this really the first time you've ever seen a historical event be used as the basis for a story?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Chapters 1 and 2 portrayed the actual events according to the documents, while Chapter 3 is completely made-up bullshit because Marguerite's testimony was a part of Carrouge's prosecution and thus his perspective. Nicole Holofcener then took that and completely made up a third perspective based on Nicole's personal feelings towards the evil patriarchy that totally existed. Chapter 3 is Nicole's personal commentary on the misogyny of medieval society, it's simply disguised as Marguerite's perspective.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Please point out where the third chapter differs from any documents, or even Carrouges events.
Just because those things mean nothing to you, and you somehow equate saving face with honor doesn't mean everyone is a feckless idiot like you. Carrouge was honored after the duel, brought onto the kings royal guard. So clearly he didn't lose face and he new that if he won he wouldn't he wasn't a b***h like you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If he won
The dude got stabbed in the dick, him winning the duel was a fluke. There's literally no reason to duel in order to save face because not making noise means no face needs to be saved.
It shouldn't be hard to understand. If he really didn't care about his wife then rape wouldn't become public
The movie would have been perfect if they just didn't explicitly label hers as the truth. The entire fricking point us that people see things in different ways.
I mean its not that complex, is the kind of movie that naturally would need a ambiguous ending but was given a me too feminist lesson just to pander to soijaks even if it makes no sense.
Female writers hardly stand not victimizing themselves
Please explain the how the ending is feminist. Also please explain how destroying herself socially for all time, calling into question the provenance of her child, and giving her husband the legal right to drown her in a river helps her in any way. You know this was a real thing that happened right?
Because all of it its in the literal sense used as dramatic punchline after portraying her as a victim of the mysoginist reality and bla bla bla, just instrumentalized the reality without the ambiguety it really had in order to have a feminist moralle behind, which is exactly why they called it "truth"
Furthermore it tries to demonize carrouge just in order to victimize her even more, yeah carrouge was a cold psycho trying everything to preserve his honor but the best he could put was mindless chimpout blindly believing in her to do so. Lol
Well for one they altered history and made it so that she didn't know she would die if her husband died. It makes the man look cartoonishly selfish and ironically makes her look like an idiot.
>Meathead that thinks he's doing a heroic charge is actually blundering forward without a plan >HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT MEATHEAD WAS IN THE WRONG!?
Even in Le Gris's self-serving account, he tricked his way into the castle, chased her, pinned her down and fricked her against vocal protests from her. Literally the most charitable possible reading was "uh she was playing hard to get is all" and that itself is not only a stretch but doesn't actually resolve the crime either. Dude was guilty as sin.
Maybe it was cognitive dissonance but I think he genuinely thought he did nothing wrong. Even with a dagger at his throat he believed he was a Chad falsely accused
My point is that even in his account, the factual actions he recounted match hers and match that of a rape. Even if he thinks it was some kind of game.
rewatch the scene and compare it to the orgy earlier, you see that the prostitute on the orgy and Marguerite in his version are playing the exact same reaction to him
meaning that in his version she was into it, and only doing a rape roleplay like the other girls he has sex with because it was a popular and socially acceptable fetish back then
>the actual basic events match in his and her accounts.
that's the point of the movie, how the same events can be remembered differently, it's not Rashomon where the point is that people lie to make themselves look better
(which makes it extra stupid to regard Marguerite's perspective as objective truth when the movie is about subjectivity, I guess "the truth" titlecard was forced by the studio because current year)
You have to keep in mind that this shit really happened. If her husband lost, she'd have been burnt at the stake. That's a big gamble!
Note that the real-life Margaret apparently loved her husband. Le Gris' defense was that he physically couldn't have made the ride, not that it was consensual.
S1 is great.
Then it literally becomes a flanderized Breaking Bad 4 Girls.
Aka rotten people doing shitty things and being portrayed as empowered while doing so.
Only, WW does the two minutes prison shanking because boys will be all YEAH BADASS MASTERMIND and Villanelle does her quirky assassinations while dressed fabulously because gurls will be all YASSS QWEEN SLAY
Initially it was fun and different albeit a bit silly but then it turned into the kind of thing that got dragged out into 4 seasons for no reason, novelty wore off and it devolved into pure schlock
I think the point was that you expect the different perspectives to shed light on the rape, but you soon begin to realize this isn't Roshomon and it is subverting that; she was undeniably raped.
In real life, Carrouges had already tried the "He fricked my wife!" shit before, with his first wife against Le Gris.
Le Gris had credible witnesses that put him almost 30 miles away. He had multiple witnesses that didn't even really know him for the days before and after the supposed rape. Yet no one spoke against those witnesses in her defense?
In the movie, when he returns, he finds his wife crying, upset, etc. Even according to his own testimony and his mother's, when he returned she was happy and nothing seemed wrong. Only after he spent the night beating her (Jean) did she suddenly remember Le Gris was a rape monster.
And most royal historians after the fact recognize that Le Gris was innocent, especially since ANOTHER PERSON admitted to being the rapist. And when Marguerite was confronted about this, how she could not have identified this guy and instead mistook him for Le Gris--oops, she wasn't sure and became a nun.
Le Gris was innocent, she was really raped (not by him) and Jean made out pretty good.
You've made several untrue statements. Carrouges didn't accuse Le Gris with his first wife, Le Gris at trial claimed Carrouges attempted to force his first wife to claim that but she never did.
Also, Le Gris could have easily stayed nearby in Louvel's home or ridden the entire way with a change of horses or good luck. Doesn't matter anyway because Le Gris ran with a rough crowd and they could have just lied for him.
I would be interested in knowing which historians side with Le Gris as his own lawyer who took extensive notes about the case doubted Le Gris' story and even said nobody could really know the truth.
The fact that you have to ask who the historian was that stated Le Gris's innocence was "recognized by all.." after the fact means you likely haven't read much on this. Not shaming you, just stating.
It was the monk Michel Pintoin or the "The Monk of Saint-Denis". He is widely regarded as the most prominent royal historian of that time period due to his writings on Charles the VI.
Carrouges did not deny Le Gris's charge of incentivizing his first wife to lie. Read the transcript.
Many of the witnesses for Le Gris did not know him and there is no way he rides 30 miles both ways in a night to be rape monster. In one of the most famous cases of the time period, with the King himself involved, no one could speak against his witnesses or saw him change horses multiple times during his 60 mile rape ride? lol, come on man...
So we are forced to look at it two ways. One, Le Gris raped her by getting multiple people to lie for him, talk his attendant into lying (even when tortured for days), rode like a demon over night, changing horses multiple times, etc. etc. For a woman he saw only once 2 years before.
Or
Carrouges had a tremendous spite for Le Gris due to the (truthful) favoring for Le Gris, including the inheritance of his father's watch and the land. He had told his wife to not be alone and his mother to not leave her alone. Despite this, she was left alone with no servants. She was raped by some commoner, finally admitted that after he beat her a bit and he told her she either states le Gris did it or else. She does, Carrouges gets his revenge.
Later she isn't sure who did it and some random commoner admits to being the rapist.
so which is more believable? Would he be prosecuted today if the trial was held?
I don't entirely get this scene. It's in Le Gris' story before he rapes her, she shows up at his room and they kiss then the next scene is him alone in bed.
Is he implying they had sex (if so why not just say it), and is he lying?
>got raped by her own husband.
Didn't like it and told nobody.
>got raped by her own husband
That's a good thing.
>love is a rape-empathy cycle
kek
Marital rape is the hottest shit.
Jesus like frick but I get it.
>so you like sucking fricking dick huh
Holy kek.
This is Exhibit A what normalgays mean when they say you guys are incels that don't understand women
A rape fantasy is just that: a fantasy. Any of you that buy into this pop psychology bullshit should hang from a rope
have sex
frick off, tourist
what are you talking about moron?
No you moron
Yes you fricking retared spaz c**t
Who fricking knows. The third act torpedoed the entire plot so fricking hard I have no idea what the hell the screenwriters were trying to say with the film.
>ACTUALLY she was a good wife who was loyal despite being mistreated
>ACTUALLY she was even better at managing the manor than her husband, no this has no relevance on the plot
>ACTUALLY Le Gris was awkward and aggressive despite being known as a ladies man
>ACTUALLY Carrouge didn't love his wife at all but was willing to fight to the death over her rape despite not being phased about it when she told him
>ACTUALLY Carrouge was also an awkward braggart who wasn't good at his job despite being knighted while La Gris remained a squire well into his 40's
incel moment
41% and sneed
You really are moronic and missed about every single point.
Educate me, then, you double nignog.
>Carrouge didn't love his wife at all but was willing to fight to the death over her rape despite not being phased about it when she told him
Do you have no concept of honor? Raping his wife is as grievous an offense as you can level at a knight.
Bro do you remember the scene? She tells him, he gets mad at her, is a little peeved, then tells her to take her clothes off so that "[Le Gris] won't be the last one to have been in you" or some moronic bullshit.
As soon as her chapter title transition lingered on the word “truth” I turned this shit off and I’m glad I did
Incel
I’m married with kids I don’t give a frick what you call me but I do care that I paid money like an idiot to rent this tripe
Why is it that male feminists, the biggest pussy desiccant on the planet, are the exclusive users of this term? Is it because being an incel is the thing you're most ashamed about and you think being called that will hurt those hecking Cinemaphileers as much as it hurts you?
It's because they, like all leftists, are possessed by a devouring and chaotic feminine spirit, and do what women do: project their own negative qualities onto others.
that this was triggered by someone just saying the word "incel" is making your posts hilarious
>like, like I can't even...
We must have been right on the money to make you seethe so openly
>they're still at it with zero self-awareness
Nah lmao, you just triggered a conversation you don't like, you expected your troony wordcalling to own someone, but it didn't, you just stood out like a moron.
triggered
Yes, you are quite triggered. You're so fricking mad you can't even make a comeback, just red facedly throwing out buzzwords. Your impotent rage is life sustaining. It's also what is causing you to go bald in your twenties.
>self-awareness
Self awareness of what anon? Are you ashamed or something? Is someone watching you?
Its kinda sad to see people so paranoid of getting socially shamed on internet, but gives a clear perspective on why do you try and use incel as an insult, you are conditioned to think "someone" (women, potential partners likely) is watching and judging you on a anonymous chinese imageboard.
Grim
>you can't write anything over your 100 letter cap
Tell me you're a twittertroon without telling me you're a twittertroon.
Honest question, have you fricked?
Generally paranoia and desperation, most male feminists are sexless virgins that would do anything to pour their penis somehow, they believe that beta-orbiting females while worshipping the only value female mind understands (sexual value) they'll get some sex, its more of a pavlovian conditioning phenomena, very subconscious, they don't really understand why do they do it either, let alone get anything from it.
It kind of made the other 2/3rds a frivolous waste of time.
It was a damn shame. Despite everything else about the film, it's probably the most realistically-portrayed medieval drama ever made. It accurately shows how life and society was, what the lives of knights were actually like, how social interactions and the legal system worked, etc. From that perspective it's an incredibly refreshing movie that tries really hard to show a living world, and not like most other medieval films that show society as being nearly post-apocalyptic with no government or social interactions beyond fighting.
And it all is rendered fricking moot by the third act, which is some feminist revisionist nonsense.
The ceremony where he swears fealty to Affleck is just how they did it medieval France. There are descriptions of this in historical documents and the words and actions are pretty much perfect
Ya it's a feminist fanfic right, where her husband doesn't give a shit about anything but his honor, she loses all her friends, and eventually admits to regretting even making the accusation. Then credits roll to a crowd cheering her husband while she is ignored. Yup, feminism. I have never seen a movie filter people so hard.
>Yup, feminism
Yes, feminism. Are you stupid or just impossibly ignorant on the feminist eternal victim narrative? What the frick do you think A Handmaid's Tale is?
I don't watch shit a handmaids tale I am not gay sorry. You being filtered isn't my problem. And I guess by your definition anything with women being miserable is now feminist? What a fricking joke.
>And I guess by your definition anything with women being miserable is now feminist? What a fricking joke.
...bro do you not interact with women?
Unlike you yes.
Go to sleep child. Cinemaphile will rot your brain.
Why don't you poltards just frick off leave instead of ruining every board you touch. Don't you have some vatnik wiener suck over there.
Lol fricking homosexual go back to basedddit, Cinemaphile or whatever /lgbt/ orbiter you came from, Cinemaphile was always and will always be like this.
Now keep malding, dilating and sneed.
The rent-free nature of this post is most satisfying
I think your dumb, very dumb. It was obvious without the third act careouge was a autist. Being knighted was for war, nobody ever implied he was anything but an excellent soldier. Most medeivel lords were absolutely shit at managing their estates. So his wife being better is 50/50, also he was an autistic sperg so more like 80/20 towards the wife. And finally rape is a property crime, his anger had nothing to do with her or her feelings he was robbed. She even admits in the movie she should have just shut her fricking mouth later on.
>And finally rape is a property crime, his anger had nothing to do with her or her feelings he was robbed.
As we all know, men didn't love women until the 19th Amendment was ratified.
Yes, women were treated as property that's why the sentence for rape is death.
Only if you can prove it, which as you saw in the film, is easier said than done.
Their society required proof before they executed people? How barbaric!
I love how this poster is just utterly confounded by the notion that people can have self-serving memory and a lack of self-awareness.
Oh okay so the film lingered on the word "Truth" for her segment as, what, a red herring? Do you not know who wrote her perspective in the screenplay? A feminist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Holofcener
Woooosh
cope
All good points.
Way to miss the entire point
movies are made by conscious authors with deliberate intentions. the plot is not its own entity but a vehicle for their biases.
some movies are unapologetic about this. others try to hide it. some authors just have subtle biases.
this movie is no different.
every movie produced after 1990 is femoid semitic idiot propaganda.
More like
>We'll explicitly label her perspective as the truth despite her lying in court in her own version
This movie was all over the place and the characters were cartoons. Ben Affleck and Matt Damon ruined this with their horrific acting.
I thought pretty much everyone except Matt Damon did a pretty good job. Driver was fantastic as always and the supporting cast were a bunch of competent, professional character actors. Jodie Coomer had a little too much doe-eyed stuff going on but was solid, and I actually liked Affleck's b***hy and hedonistic character. But Damon sucked huge balls. Legitimately one of his worst performances.
All valid points. Don’t listen to people defending the third act.
The fact the film declares HER version as the truth ruins any sort of discussion about what really happened. Also her story is just typical 2020s feminism.
Ok. Say it had no indication and the three were presented with no difference. How is hers still not the most credible? There's big holes in both of the other two accounts that are only filled in by seeing them through other eyes.
Pretty much.
Third act make no sense as it just repeats everything we knew but makes everybody seem shittier.
I assumed her act will be the "truth" one where we learn shes a cheating bawd and trying to get her husband killed or something, but nope.
Still i hated the movie more for the visuals, what a fricking ugly, blue, dark movie with moronic looking armor and moronic looking sets.
What in the film suggested to you that Le Gris's testimony was truthful and not self-serving?
she has a crooked face so it doesn't matter
is the movie kino? Thinking about watching it today
yes it is ignore the incels, the actual last duel in the film is also incredible
there's no incels in the movie
Many such cases.
What fricking movie did you watch, she very clearly did not like being raped by driver.
>Get knockep up by Le Gris
>didn't enjoy it
Scientifically incorrect
>there’s no way the womens perspective could possibly be the correct one! I can’t believe they RUINED the movie by saying her view was the truth
>women enjoy rape, I know because I’ve had a lot of sex
classic /misc/ incel opinions
This but unironically, also you never had sex
>there’s no way the womens perspective could possibly be the correct one!
there's no way anyone today could know, but to sell it as the truth shows bias. The truth generally falls somewhere between the two sides, and when you're centuries removed it gets even murkier. This movie was pandering
>The truth generally falls somewhere between the two sides
I say you're a homosexual. You say you're straight. Guess the truth is you're bisexual.
>The truth generally falls somewhere between the two sides
That's one thing that really irked me about the story. Marguerite's perspective IS Carrouge's perspective. Carrouge obviously believed his wife completely (in real life) which is why he was willing to die in duel to prove her innocence. So anything she told him, is the truth according to Carrouge. The ONLY reason her perspective exists as a separate chapter is to make a moronic feminist statement, and basically chastise the audience for trying to decide between the two other accounts.
It's actually quite an insulting film, and it's no wonder it flopped hard at the box office. Even lefty film critics were saying things like
>Doesn't the third act structurally undermine the entire plot of the film?
He didn't do it for her, he did it for his name and his honor.
As he should
Yeah, yeah, ACCORDING TO THE FANFICTION CHAPTER.
It's a movie, not a documentary, anon.
Bro we have actual historical records about the court case and duel.
And? Is this really the first time you've ever seen a historical event be used as the basis for a story?
Chapters 1 and 2 portrayed the actual events according to the documents, while Chapter 3 is completely made-up bullshit because Marguerite's testimony was a part of Carrouge's prosecution and thus his perspective. Nicole Holofcener then took that and completely made up a third perspective based on Nicole's personal feelings towards the evil patriarchy that totally existed. Chapter 3 is Nicole's personal commentary on the misogyny of medieval society, it's simply disguised as Marguerite's perspective.
Please point out where the third chapter differs from any documents, or even Carrouges events.
Oh frick off you triple homosexual
You mean all 3 chapters?
>Name and honor
Except he didn't. We know he didn't because Carrouges spreading news about the rape was their ploy to initiate the duel.
If honor & name is all they care about then the duel doesn't happen. CH3 is just feminist fantasy created to slight a good and honest man
>it's an anon writes sappy fanfiction about a guy from 700 years ago episode
Yeah, that's what happened in the movie
Just because those things mean nothing to you, and you somehow equate saving face with honor doesn't mean everyone is a feckless idiot like you. Carrouge was honored after the duel, brought onto the kings royal guard. So clearly he didn't lose face and he new that if he won he wouldn't he wasn't a b***h like you.
>If he won
The dude got stabbed in the dick, him winning the duel was a fluke. There's literally no reason to duel in order to save face because not making noise means no face needs to be saved.
It shouldn't be hard to understand. If he really didn't care about his wife then rape wouldn't become public
I can't imagine being this dumb. To think Carrouge risked his life to avenge his wife.
The movie would have been perfect if they just didn't explicitly label hers as the truth. The entire fricking point us that people see things in different ways.
Nothing in the film suggests his perspective is credible and truthful.
this
even in his account he had to pin her down and force himself on her
Is a feminist power fantasy version of rashomon
There is no further depth to it
It wasn't consensual even from his own POV
In his POV she did consent with her playfulness but pretended to protest to save her honor.
>Rapes your waifu
and died for it
what kind of phenotype is this?
kino
>kinotype
Jew
I mean its not that complex, is the kind of movie that naturally would need a ambiguous ending but was given a me too feminist lesson just to pander to soijaks even if it makes no sense.
Female writers hardly stand not victimizing themselves
Please explain the how the ending is feminist. Also please explain how destroying herself socially for all time, calling into question the provenance of her child, and giving her husband the legal right to drown her in a river helps her in any way. You know this was a real thing that happened right?
Because all of it its in the literal sense used as dramatic punchline after portraying her as a victim of the mysoginist reality and bla bla bla, just instrumentalized the reality without the ambiguety it really had in order to have a feminist moralle behind, which is exactly why they called it "truth"
Furthermore it tries to demonize carrouge just in order to victimize her even more, yeah carrouge was a cold psycho trying everything to preserve his honor but the best he could put was mindless chimpout blindly believing in her to do so. Lol
Well for one they altered history and made it so that she didn't know she would die if her husband died. It makes the man look cartoonishly selfish and ironically makes her look like an idiot.
>Meathead that thinks he's doing a heroic charge is actually blundering forward without a plan
>HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT MEATHEAD WAS IN THE WRONG!?
Where did you get this notion from?
If you say so.
No
Even in Le Gris's self-serving account, he tricked his way into the castle, chased her, pinned her down and fricked her against vocal protests from her. Literally the most charitable possible reading was "uh she was playing hard to get is all" and that itself is not only a stretch but doesn't actually resolve the crime either. Dude was guilty as sin.
Maybe it was cognitive dissonance but I think he genuinely thought he did nothing wrong. Even with a dagger at his throat he believed he was a Chad falsely accused
My point is that even in his account, the factual actions he recounted match hers and match that of a rape. Even if he thinks it was some kind of game.
if that's rape then lock me up
Ok.
rewatch the scene and compare it to the orgy earlier, you see that the prostitute on the orgy and Marguerite in his version are playing the exact same reaction to him
Meaning?
meaning that in his version she was into it, and only doing a rape roleplay like the other girls he has sex with because it was a popular and socially acceptable fetish back then
I don't see that making his account any more credible
That's his claimed interpretation but the actual basic events match in his and her accounts.
>the actual basic events match in his and her accounts.
that's the point of the movie, how the same events can be remembered differently, it's not Rashomon where the point is that people lie to make themselves look better
(which makes it extra stupid to regard Marguerite's perspective as objective truth when the movie is about subjectivity, I guess "the truth" titlecard was forced by the studio because current year)
That would indicate to me he gained a warped sense of foreplay thinking that's normal
Atrocious movie. I cannot believe how bad Ben Afleck was. The rest of the c**ts weren't much better either.
>byzantine ear rings
GIVE THEM BACK, FRENCH SCUM
You have to keep in mind that this shit really happened. If her husband lost, she'd have been burnt at the stake. That's a big gamble!
Note that the real-life Margaret apparently loved her husband. Le Gris' defense was that he physically couldn't have made the ride, not that it was consensual.
One of real-life Le Gris' witnesses for his alibi was busted for abducting a woman after Carroughes accused him lol.
From what I hear from the experts on this board, this is a normal action for a woman.
How long did you watch before realizing she was Villanelle?
Is Killing Eve good? It has good ratings but it looks like a show for girls
S1 is amazing S2 is okay the rest is pure trash
S1 is great.
Then it literally becomes a flanderized Breaking Bad 4 Girls.
Aka rotten people doing shitty things and being portrayed as empowered while doing so.
Only, WW does the two minutes prison shanking because boys will be all YEAH BADASS MASTERMIND and Villanelle does her quirky assassinations while dressed fabulously because gurls will be all YASSS QWEEN SLAY
Initially it was fun and different albeit a bit silly but then it turned into the kind of thing that got dragged out into 4 seasons for no reason, novelty wore off and it devolved into pure schlock
I wouldn't bother unless you're really bored
I think the point was that you expect the different perspectives to shed light on the rape, but you soon begin to realize this isn't Roshomon and it is subverting that; she was undeniably raped.
She's cute.
Women deserve rape
Here's an obvious hole, OP. If she was actually all for it, why did she tell her husband at all? She could have kept it secret.
she was hoping he would die in the duel and she could get plowed by gigachad
Well that's the movie.
In real life, Carrouges had already tried the "He fricked my wife!" shit before, with his first wife against Le Gris.
Le Gris had credible witnesses that put him almost 30 miles away. He had multiple witnesses that didn't even really know him for the days before and after the supposed rape. Yet no one spoke against those witnesses in her defense?
In the movie, when he returns, he finds his wife crying, upset, etc. Even according to his own testimony and his mother's, when he returned she was happy and nothing seemed wrong. Only after he spent the night beating her (Jean) did she suddenly remember Le Gris was a rape monster.
And most royal historians after the fact recognize that Le Gris was innocent, especially since ANOTHER PERSON admitted to being the rapist. And when Marguerite was confronted about this, how she could not have identified this guy and instead mistook him for Le Gris--oops, she wasn't sure and became a nun.
Le Gris was innocent, she was really raped (not by him) and Jean made out pretty good.
Frick off Le Gris descendant
You've made several untrue statements. Carrouges didn't accuse Le Gris with his first wife, Le Gris at trial claimed Carrouges attempted to force his first wife to claim that but she never did.
Also, Le Gris could have easily stayed nearby in Louvel's home or ridden the entire way with a change of horses or good luck. Doesn't matter anyway because Le Gris ran with a rough crowd and they could have just lied for him.
I would be interested in knowing which historians side with Le Gris as his own lawyer who took extensive notes about the case doubted Le Gris' story and even said nobody could really know the truth.
The fact that you have to ask who the historian was that stated Le Gris's innocence was "recognized by all.." after the fact means you likely haven't read much on this. Not shaming you, just stating.
It was the monk Michel Pintoin or the "The Monk of Saint-Denis". He is widely regarded as the most prominent royal historian of that time period due to his writings on Charles the VI.
Carrouges did not deny Le Gris's charge of incentivizing his first wife to lie. Read the transcript.
Many of the witnesses for Le Gris did not know him and there is no way he rides 30 miles both ways in a night to be rape monster. In one of the most famous cases of the time period, with the King himself involved, no one could speak against his witnesses or saw him change horses multiple times during his 60 mile rape ride? lol, come on man...
So we are forced to look at it two ways. One, Le Gris raped her by getting multiple people to lie for him, talk his attendant into lying (even when tortured for days), rode like a demon over night, changing horses multiple times, etc. etc. For a woman he saw only once 2 years before.
Or
Carrouges had a tremendous spite for Le Gris due to the (truthful) favoring for Le Gris, including the inheritance of his father's watch and the land. He had told his wife to not be alone and his mother to not leave her alone. Despite this, she was left alone with no servants. She was raped by some commoner, finally admitted that after he beat her a bit and he told her she either states le Gris did it or else. She does, Carrouges gets his revenge.
Later she isn't sure who did it and some random commoner admits to being the rapist.
so which is more believable? Would he be prosecuted today if the trial was held?
This post is literally copy paste made up lie written by some dude hundreds of years after the fact during the enlightenment
i just assumed the third act was all fiction because it was from the perspective of a woman
I don't entirely get this scene. It's in Le Gris' story before he rapes her, she shows up at his room and they kiss then the next scene is him alone in bed.
Is he implying they had sex (if so why not just say it), and is he lying?
Good movie but this was a bit too on the nose