I don't think every story should have "it was their bloodline" in it for fantasy. Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals for something new or something more traditional.
>Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals for something new or something more traditional.
Most fantasy stories are royalty or monarchism in general.
https://i.imgur.com/wtkx8cD.jpg
This seems to be specifically about how RoSW supposedly ruined TLJ.
Honestly outside of having a weird ideological mindset, I don't see how people randomly being super powerful is more empowering than powers being determined by bloodlines.
>I don't see how people randomly being super powerful is more empowering than powers being determined by bloodlines.
It's an "Anyone can Cook" kind of deal, but I think this is just a general mash up of cliches from YA novels like obviously they're leaning into Harry Potter but also shit like Divergent. Like she said "Anyone can end up being greatly capable" has a message that underestimating others is not cool, but quickly becomes "actually we just had a slight oversight and the system is great"
Everyone forgets that Lucas hadn't actually decided on whether or not Anakin was genuinely the Chosen One until Episode 3 (as until that point, what he intended was that the Jedi Council merely ASSUMED Anakin was the Chosen One based on his midi count, and that the throughline being pushed was that the Jedi fricked up everything by running on assumptions and pressuring some random orphan until he snapped)
>and even then, 3 was originally going to reveal that Anakin was the product of Palps and his master fricking with the Force via experiments
and even then, Anakin WASN'T the greatest Jedi in his time, or even the strongest. Midichlorian count is an indicator of Force POTENTIAL more than anything else. While powerful Force users can have a powerful bloodline of Force user children, any family can accidentally crap out a randomly strong Force user, even if the lineage is dominated by normies
Midichlorians in general are fricking ridiculous.
I don't even know why the frick George Lucas added that lore. It didn't add anything except cheapen the force as a concept. A spiritual will in the universe that is tied to the concept of destiny and psychic might? Yeah, you need the right blood to use it because it responds to what's in your cells rather than what's in your mind and soul. Stupid as frick. Makes the force seem like a fricking tool rather than a spiritual presence. Also has weird overtones of eugenics.
Midichlorians add nothing, they only take away.
>I don't even know why the frick George Lucas added that lore.
Really easy.
>He needed a way to know "Holy shit this guy is Yoda level!" right away >His crazy ass idea with the Wylls
5 months ago
Anonymous
Couldn't he just have gone: >"Wow, the Force is really strong in this child. We must kidn- I mean bring him to the order ASAP so we can indoctri- I mean train him."
>Skywalker
"This person is special because these robots need his help, his father was a jedi, and the king burned his home and family"
"This person is special because he's now a jedi"
"This person is special because his father is evil and ruling the galaxy"
"This person is special because he decided his father is wrong" >midichlorians
"This person is special because the blood test says he is, okay!"
I really don't like the blood mites. It's a lot less natural storytelling, backwards in fact, probably because it was a prequel.
>Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals
What fantasy are you reading?
Even mundane stories these days are about how pathetic normal people are in the face of the super handsome, super rich, super talented, whose one weakness is usually something like "Has no real friends".
>NOOOOO you have to teach children fake lessons that falsely convince them that they can do things they aren't physically able to do!
People are born with physical and mental differences that can cap or suppress their abilities compared to the people that were born with bodies and minds more ideal for those abilities. Hiding this fact from kids is developmentally stunting.
Telling everyone they can do everything is bad for them in the long run, but so is telling them that hard work and dedication is meaningless because someone else is already naturally better at it.
I can't run as fast as some people, but through the magical power of not being a fricking pussy blaming my genetics I progressively got better and now I can run faster than the nitwits that could already run fast but didn't train.
It's the same shit with mental stuff as long as you're not clinically moronic.
You'll never be as good as someone born with a predisposition that apply themselves, but that doesn't mean you have to do nothing and accept being a bottom feeder all your life.
If you can't be the best at least try to be better.
>I can't run as fast as some people, but through the magical power of not being a fricking pussy blaming my genetics I progressively got better and now I can run faster than the nitwits that could already run fast but didn't train.
Cool. But unless you actually like the process of running, chances, that you'll get anything from that, are close to zero. Of course i might be mistaken and your job is to steal watermelons.
What I hate is that a lot of these stories pretend like the main character is an underdog just to slowly reveal they had more going on for them than anyone else. Anime does it a lot. Basically if you're going to make overpowered main characters, just do it and don't pretend they're underdogs.
I loved the reaction of One Piecegays when they realized his precious protagonist is the same as other shonen main characters, it just took them almost 20 years to realize it
Always loved how the story that was about a rag tag group of freedom fighters overcoming the odds against their oppressors turned out to be about a group of slaves freed by their owner and who's freedom is only maintained by their owner's progeny.
Only two things mattered about the Potter clan in HP: that they were rich so Harry inherited a fabulous treasure stored in an ancient goblin bank so he would not be impoverished, and that the Potter family had direct blood ties to the Peverells who made the Deathly Hallows which is why Harry’s invisibility cloak was that busted.
Weren't the family trees so god damn twisted together that everyone was related to the Peverells? The cloak was just passed father to son. Also despite supposedly being the true invisibility cloak of death himself it was seen through by a bunch of normal magical items, like moody's eye.
>father to son
That’s why I say direct, though it begs question why they’re Potter and not Peverell if the inheritance conga went like that. >cloak
Honestly all the Deathly Hallows are probably just strong magic items and the story is just literally a bedtime story made up to mythologize them. The stone doesn’t actually bring your loved one back, the wand isn’t all powerful, the cloak can be detected.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe at one point it the current owner only had a daughter and gave it to her. So when she married she became a potter.
5 months ago
Anonymous
The wand basically makes all your spells come out at maximum potential, but unless you have actual knowledge behind it you can be outmanuvered. Like if you only know a "magic tickle" spell, you can make the best magic tickle in the world, but it wont suddenly make you a master of magical combat.
Weak sauce. You should have the protagonist be the lost descendent of an ancient kingdom that was once usurped/deposed centuries ago by the current regime. And upon learning of this great secret and the near total genocide of her people, the descendent's true power awakens unlike anyone else's. With which she exacts justice upon the specials and rightfully reclaims her throne through grit and unwavering fury in the name of all who were killed.
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD NARUTO WAS NEVER ABOUT HARD WORK, ONLY THE FRICKING EXAM ARC HAD THAT AS A THEME YOU moron
>Naruto's biggest themes were concerning love, and breaking the cycle of war
IT WAS NEVER ABOUT MUH HARD WORK
Lee's backstory was about overcoming moronness with hardwork and he didnt get too far as a character.
I remember that Owl House had an entire episode dedicated to crapping on the Chosen One as a trope and just like this comic, it fails to understand WHY the Chosen One trope exists and will continue to exist
>to clearly telegraph to the audience that the main character is of importance and is worth following >to appeal to children's fantasies (what child wouldn't want to secretly be a prince or princess instead of a normie) >culturally, to appeal to lineage and communities where family is important, and held in high regard and respected
A lot of people don't really GET that so they instead come into fantasy stories projecting their own miseries onto it
>well, if I just WORKED HARD enough, maybe some day, I could be a King or President or a Billionaire
The thing about meritocracy is that it DOESN'T FRICKING EXIST. If you are born poor, you will more than likely die poor. If you are born very rich, you and your children will more than likely die rich. Our fricking modern world sucks like that, but it's better to see the truth and work on trying to fix things rather than bury your head in the sand and keep lying
>so OF COURSE these same idiots go into fantasy fiction and expect the same results >BUT IT DOESN'T EXIST because no child wants to read a story about a nobody WORKING HARD to become THE GREATEST because THAT'S FRICKING BORING >and every time someone makes that a story, it's boring as shit and kids don't watch or read it
I really love the Pixar Rat Movie because it was honest: not everyone can be great, but greatness can come from anywhere.
Meritocracy isnt a get rich scheme for hard workers, it's a 'right to be possible' for people who can detach themselves from the sheeple and make someting off it. Go talk about meritocracy to the Tetris creator who got his rights stolen by the guvmint while every game dev in the west was getting rich.
>MC is special but in such a way that puts him in some form of disadvantage that he overcomes by simply being smarter and exploiting his skills to their maximum potential, no chosen one bs
Stories like this?
I just don't get why people want underdog stories so badly IN POWER FANTASYSHIT because the metaphysics and logic of YA or Shonenshit are simply not compatible with "the nobody underdog with nothing but his body and mind can become god" mindset. The fate of any underdog story is that you end up with Batwank or "frick, I didn't think this through, better make him special so I don't end up with Batwank"
face it, you just want a power fantasy but have too many hangups getting in the way of it
People are moronic. Check out the skyrim general on /vg/, despite being le chosen one who saves the world, people mod their game to make it harder because they want to be an underdog poo person
>The fate of any underdog story is that you end up with Batwank or "frick, I didn't think this through, better make him special so I don't end up with Batwank"
that's only if it goes on forever like most cape stories due to power creep. if the story is self contained it will never get the chance to have batwank.
I think you're getting too caught up in the metanarrative to understand why One Piece was appealing. >goes from a raggedy boat to the highest bounty in the east sea >goes against a warlord of the sea >goes against secret government agents >get destroyed by an Admiral (Aokiji) >barely escapes alive from Water 7, loses the Merry >rest of Pre-Timeskip is Luffy losing all of his friends, getting beat up to a inch of his life twice, and losing his brother
The story reaches the lowest point at like, chapter 530 something. Luffy doesn't have a shot at becoming a Pirate King until Post-Timeskip
One Piece's appeal is in the sense of adventure in a world created to be explored and the pirate crew being a friend simulator, not as a power fantasy. Luffy's details and the battle manga elements are tertiary interests at best.
Nah man, at this point everyone wants to know what the frick is going to happen with the story. Clearly Oda has something prepared for the One Piece and the story is gearing up towards its conclusion very satisfyingly so far, actually. >literal rape slaves confirmed a few chapters ago
It's definitely past being a friend simulator, feel-good story
5 months ago
Anonymous
>at this point everyone wants to know what the frick is going to happen with the story.
I never said they don't. One Piece is just an adventure story much more so than a battle shonen so it really shouldn't be compared to stuff like DB or Naruto in regards to its main character. The crew is the true main character and the appeal is in following them in their adventures.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Nah man, at this point everyone wants to know what the frick is going to happen with the story. Clearly Oda has something prepared for the One Piece and the story is gearing up towards its conclusion very satisfyingly so far, actually. >literal rape slaves confirmed a few chapters ago
It's definitely past being a friend simulator, feel-good story
One Piece's appeal is in the sense of adventure in a world created to be explored and the pirate crew being a friend simulator, not as a power fantasy. Luffy's details and the battle manga elements are tertiary interests at best.
I think you're getting too caught up in the metanarrative to understand why One Piece was appealing. >goes from a raggedy boat to the highest bounty in the east sea >goes against a warlord of the sea >goes against secret government agents >get destroyed by an Admiral (Aokiji) >barely escapes alive from Water 7, loses the Merry >rest of Pre-Timeskip is Luffy losing all of his friends, getting beat up to a inch of his life twice, and losing his brother
The story reaches the lowest point at like, chapter 530 something. Luffy doesn't have a shot at becoming a Pirate King until Post-Timeskip
>implying Luffy was ever an underdog
I just don't get why people want underdog stories so badly IN POWER FANTASYSHIT because the metaphysics and logic of YA or Shonenshit are simply not compatible with "the nobody underdog with nothing but his body and mind can become god" mindset. The fate of any underdog story is that you end up with Batwank or "frick, I didn't think this through, better make him special so I don't end up with Batwank"
face it, you just want a power fantasy but have too many hangups getting in the way of it
Would you, please, remind me, when "D" in Monkey D. Luffy and other "D" persons like pirate king, Ace and Dragon has got its meaning?
5 months ago
Anonymous
We don't know what the D clan means, and literally the main villain is part of the clan. It doesn't denote anything yet.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Wasn't there something about The Will type tied to this "D"?
People want to believe that the protag is clever and determined enough to earn his victories. They want to suspend their disbelief and live in the moment of the story and indulge the stakes of the narrative, that there are consequences and dangers and risks.
Learning far later that the protag was being puppeteered and protected by forces that guaranteed and guided the protag through his journey to ensure that things would always go his way, that he'd never truly lose, and that no real harm could come to him can do a lot to weaken the audience's investment in the story.
Oda continually revealing new things that make Luffy super-extra-chosen is just sloppy writing, and it's redundant because he's already special by virtue of being the protagonist who changes the world with his special powers.
>Luffy >underdog
In what world, in what country, in what universe even??
The majority of the time the plot is holding Luffy back from making the villain of the island a red smear. The only times Luffy really "lost" he's immediately back into it and destroys the villain, because Luffy needs to absolutely win and the author realized that he fricked with the power ranks.
I really do think some OP fans are delusional when they were competing with Naruto and Bleach back in the 2000's.
He literally lost his entire crew because he was too weak and realized he had to train for two years. Even when he unleashed Gear 4th, he couldn't beat Doflamingo alone and needed help from others. Had to run away from Big Mom too. Almost lost to Smoker back in the East Blue if his dad didn't come to bail him out.
Oh, yeah, and he was too weak to save his brother. Marineford was basically him as a guppy fighting amongst sharks. I don't think he beat anyone there that wasn't a generic Marine.
Demon Slayer, though fair warning the MC cannot and never does handle a major demon solo. He’s pretty clever and trains his ass off, but ultimately he can’t use his first choice style to its fullest.
Kind of funny because twice they fake you out into thinking he’s a chosen one. First time by him getting a newer style that works better and people thought “oh this must be the ultimate super ability that only he can use because he’s chosen by it!” Nope, it’s just a style that focuses more on power than that of his first choice. It still doesn’t work right because he needs to be able to move freely and he has to rely on his first choice for that. The reason everyone thought it was god tier was because Sword Jesus used it and styled all over the big bad, but that’s just him being him.
Then they hint he’s actually a descendant of sword Jesus and that’s why he can use the ability because his bloodline is super special and amazing. Nope. Turns out his entire connection to sword Jesus is “one time sword Jesus was really sad and needed someone to talk to so he talked to his ancestor. After he talked it out he hung with the family for a bit and showed a neat dance the ancestor memorized when he realized it helped keep them warm.” That’s it. He’s got as much blood between them as he does to a random fricker on the street, sword Jesus just needed to talk it out.
Lastly they did a mini fakeout with the black sword supposedly being special and unique, but nope. Turns out the swords react differently to grips. I’m not even joking, the sword is kind of magic and changes color depending on you holding it, they get a powerup through holding it harder late game.
Demon Slayer loved making you think he was special and then just revealing he really is just a lucky hillbilly
You know, I don't even really GET why burgers are so assblasted about the protagonist being revealed to be special all along in the first place because 99% of power fantasy and wish fulfillment shit is aimed at teens and kids, and most teens and kids would rather prefer to be born as "nobility" because it further serves to push the escapism stuff
>what kid WOULDN'T dream that their parent was secretly the Magic Emperor Wizard Knight-King
Trying to shove BS meritocratic nonsense into shonenshit or power fantasy is moronic because it fails to understand why "the MC was special all along" is sold and accepted, and also fails to check if it actually is consistent with the story's existing internal logic
most power fantasy YA shit can't be meritocratic because it's a reflection of the real world, even if exaggerated - and "hard work can do anything" doesn't even work IRL
The thing is the system with special people and poo people IS meritocratic. Poo people are inferior by their inferior abilities, not some arbitrary decission of someone else. Meritocracy will always include an underclass because some people just have good genes and some are shit.
It helps that Aragorn isn't really a chosen one in the sense he's destined to do shit so much as he stepped up to fulfill what his lineage always had to do and it didn't grant him much of anything apart from responsibility which of course he parlayed into a one off ghost army. Also that he's a supporting character in a grander story, everyone has a part to play and he chose to view himself and even his Kingdom as serving the greater cause of ridding Middle Earth of Sauron and was willing to die as a diversion all in hopes that Frodo would destroy the ring.
[...]
This. A meritocracy could never devolve into nepotism and cronyism, they're just GOOD at what they do.
Yes, as long as it stays a true meritocracy and doesn't devolve into bloodlines are just better without any effort. The Celestial dragons in one piece all beleive themselves to be better than everyone else despite not doing anything to prove it. They have no special powers at all, they are poo people with gold makeup. Their only claim to specialness is their great great great great great great great grandparents formed the world goverment.
Naruto was an egregious example because the reveal that Naruto was from a special OP bloodline and a literal avatar of god goes against EVERYTHING that went before that in the manga.
Naruto was an underdog and even his nine fox abilities were a curse as much as they were a blessing. Since it was the reason he was so neglected and hated. And he was an underdog in the world where OP bloodlines can make a difference and every village explictly valued their gifted ninjas more than the regular ones. Naruto fought all the time against those talanted ninjas with crazy bloodlines and it was the point that hard work and sheer willpower (or sometimes plain luck) beats talant and genetics. That is, until Naruto was revealed to be a literal deity in his world.
You can make your hero as talanted as you want, even make them a fricking royalty, but not if it contradicts all themes and morals of your story that you clearly established before.
>You can make your hero as talanted as you want, even make them a fricking royalty, but not if it contradicts all themes and morals of your story that you clearly established before.
Americans have been brainwash to believe in a nurture based mindset compared to Asian who have been brainwashed into a nature based mindset.
Americans have been so deluded in defying destiny and exploitation that something being innate is something they can't truly grasp the concept of.
Asians have been indoctrinated into a society that has already chosen the role of a child before they are born such aborting girls that would be under the year of the fire horse since even if the parents didn't believe their child would grow up to murder her husband others would leading to a resentful life. Any person that defies their role in this society is filling a hole that would have happened as that is their true destiny their not defying it. Unable to uphold the natural order of things will always be a last resort.
I remember that Owl House had an entire episode dedicated to crapping on the Chosen One as a trope and just like this comic, it fails to understand WHY the Chosen One trope exists and will continue to exist
>to clearly telegraph to the audience that the main character is of importance and is worth following >to appeal to children's fantasies (what child wouldn't want to secretly be a prince or princess instead of a normie) >culturally, to appeal to lineage and communities where family is important, and held in high regard and respected
A lot of people don't really GET that so they instead come into fantasy stories projecting their own miseries onto it
>well, if I just WORKED HARD enough, maybe some day, I could be a King or President or a Billionaire
The thing about meritocracy is that it DOESN'T FRICKING EXIST. If you are born poor, you will more than likely die poor. If you are born very rich, you and your children will more than likely die rich. Our fricking modern world sucks like that, but it's better to see the truth and work on trying to fix things rather than bury your head in the sand and keep lying
>so OF COURSE these same idiots go into fantasy fiction and expect the same results >BUT IT DOESN'T EXIST because no child wants to read a story about a nobody WORKING HARD to become THE GREATEST because THAT'S FRICKING BORING >and every time someone makes that a story, it's boring as shit and kids don't watch or read it
I really love the Pixar Rat Movie because it was honest: not everyone can be great, but greatness can come from anywhere.
of course the Chosen One doesn't fricking literally "really exist", but as an idea it exists throughout culture FOR A REASON, the concept of the fricking Chosen One can be seen in examples like the Messiah, the Maitreya, Kalki, Li Hong, Mab Darogan, etc.
The Chosen One is a meaningful and powerful idea, it represents hope, that faith and goodness will be rewarded by a legendary savior who will bring an everlasting peace
crapping on it because WAHHHH DIVINE RIGHT BAD is the worst takeaway imaginable
>of course the Chosen One doesn't fricking literally "really exist", but as an idea it exists throughout culture FOR A REASON, the concept of the fricking Chosen One can be seen in examples like the Messiah, the Maitreya, Kalki, Li Hong, Mab Darogan, etc.
and now there are a bunch of jackasses with main character syndrome who think they're one of the above
>BUT IT DOESN'T EXIST because no child wants to read a story about a nobody WORKING HARD to become THE GREATEST because THAT'S FRICKING BORING
Dunno, the idea of a nobody just coming out of nowhere and dunking on everybody else by sheer determination and will sounds fun, really, it just sounds like another form of power fantasy
and that's the fricking problem: muh nobodynormie MC becoming the greatest IS JUST POWER FANTASY with a Burger label slapped on top of it, it's something only dishonest people really crave for, people that are somehow more insecure than powerfantasygays
Going "muh normie human could beat EVERYONE ELSE" is how you get moronic shit like Batwank where "uhm guys he's a regular human being but he could TOTALLY solo everyone and everything imaginable"
no
you pathetic fricking homosexual
muh normie power fantasy cannot work without becoming just another power fantasy story in the end because it would require the inevitable escalation to make things work
otherwise what you would get is
>normie character gets fricking killed by normal means
and that's only if you had the balls to actually be CONSISTENT with that same fricking logic of the main character being normal, you have to FOLLOW THAT SHIT
Goku is a low class warrior and Ash is a nobody without a father and both managed to become the greatest* and also both lead some of the best selling franchises of the world.
Wrong. Pokemon is only popular because of the "accessible fantasy" element of it, not because of Ash. Kids love it because of the Pokeballs themselves: anyone can be a trainer and anyone can catch them all. Ash doesn't fricking matter, only that Pokemon can be caught by literally ANYONE, it's specifically why the player characters in the games are normies, it appeals to that Jap mindset
Goku IS STILL the Chosen One even if things weren't planned that way >the Super Saiyan prophecy >Bardock's vision >Goku's circumstances when compared to other Saiyans
And while I'm here, it's important to talk about what the frick the "accessible fantasy" is. Shit like Ultraman, Kamen Rider, Magical Girl, Mecha, and other shit in Japan is able to have much wider success through making the power fantasy "universally accessible" via turning the superpower into an object
>magic belt, magic staff or wand, a robot, etc
Pokemon is another example of this, as the capsule catching nature of the Pokeball was cribbed from Ultraman
Ben 10 is an American example of the "accessible fantasy" - the Omnitrix is a watch that can be worn by anyone.
Goku also happens to be from a race of aliens with no power ceiling and the legendary Super Saiyan >Ash
Ash kept losing for almost 30 years, not to mention his background or genetics have nothing to do with Pokemon battles because he's not the one actually fighting
Goku is an alien and even low class Saiyan warriors easily surpass the strongest humans and not to mention how much that gap has widen to this day. The character has two elements, he is without a doubt special but also has an underdog element to him that resonates. Really what I'm getting is that an extremly popular form of power fantasy usually combines merit and inherent value
That's what I said, it's really just another form of power fantasy so it really comes down to personal preference, you mentioned Batman and how much he is wanked which I agree it's stupid but that's also the result of how popular the character (and such power fantasy) is so he ends up being elevated to BatGod status. Also Batman, sorta really does both at the same time, he's a peak human born genius that no normie will ever catch up to BUT he lives in a world full of freaks, so the character gets to have both things at once.
>wow you worked so hard to get where you are today, Protag! >Your perseverance and unwavering dedication to your beliefs helped you to achieve what no one thought possible >also you're half angel, half devil, half God, descendant of the greatest warrior to ever live, the spirit of all warriors resides within you and only you, and also aliens came and tampered with your DNA in the womb so you'd be temporarily held back from your full potential as a child so no one would find you and abuse your special gifts which have pre-destined you to be the greatest being in all of existence
This is really more of an anime problem, but that shit really needs to stop happening in fiction forever.
For as shit as Naruto became, Naruto being special didn't fricking hurt Naruto as a character BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY SPECIAL BY THE METAPHYSICS OF THE FRICKING STORY
>has a fricking fox demon stuffed into him (which makes spamming Shadow Clones easier and gives him a monopoly on it) >is son of the previous Ninja President
Yeah but that was in the first episode and the main plot, unlike shit like Naruto or boku no hero academia.
I feel like the reveal was only a reveal for moronic people
The guy who got me my subs didnt think the dead president was rutos dad because 'hes an orphan, orphans dont have parents'
For as shit as Naruto became, Naruto being special didn't fricking hurt Naruto as a character BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY SPECIAL BY THE METAPHYSICS OF THE FRICKING STORY
>has a fricking fox demon stuffed into him (which makes spamming Shadow Clones easier and gives him a monopoly on it) >is son of the previous Ninja President
AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER, LITERALLY THE NAME OF THE SHOW. COME BACK WHEN IT'S NARUTO: THE LAST homosexual.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Well there was a "Naruto: The Last" if that counts
5 months ago
Anonymous
Aang was only the airbender because the last one was fire nation and died
He would've been a generic poo person otherwise
The thing that pissed me off the most about korra was my inability to understand aangs arrow tattoos werent part of being the avatar. So korras gay glowy eyes felt mid
People who think Naruto being the reincarnation of Indra/Ashura goes against the themes of the story are brainlets. It served to highlight his goal of remaking the ninja world. Every incarnation before him only served to perpetuate it and their immense power only led to more conflict with each other. Despite being a reincarnation of the main perpetrators of this cycle, he was able to break it, with him being able to reconcile with Sasuke instead of killing him being a microcosm of that and a proof of concept.
Bloodline stuff is based when done intentionally and well. It highlights the value of family. It can show how problems caused generationally much be solved generationally. Or it can show the importance of accepting responsibility and/or gifts you have been given as opposed to running from it. Or the ability to break from what is perceived as destiny or to accept it. etc. etc. LotR, Dune, etc. Lots of stuff does it well and it can lead to more nuanced stories and themes.
It helps that Aragorn isn't really a chosen one in the sense he's destined to do shit so much as he stepped up to fulfill what his lineage always had to do and it didn't grant him much of anything apart from responsibility which of course he parlayed into a one off ghost army. Also that he's a supporting character in a grander story, everyone has a part to play and he chose to view himself and even his Kingdom as serving the greater cause of ridding Middle Earth of Sauron and was willing to die as a diversion all in hopes that Frodo would destroy the ring.
The thing is the system with special people and poo people IS meritocratic. Poo people are inferior by their inferior abilities, not some arbitrary decission of someone else. Meritocracy will always include an underclass because some people just have good genes and some are shit.
This. A meritocracy could never devolve into nepotism and cronyism, they're just GOOD at what they do.
In the books it's made more clear that Aragorns claim is a bit shaky as his family was deliberately cut from the line of kings generations ago. Aragorn is just incredibly competent.
Although to be fair the Hobbits are supposed to be the protagonists of LotR, and there is a running gag where people have no clue what a hobbit even is. Treebeard mentions they are absent from the Ents ancient lore.
The problem with the "everyone can be special" angle, especially in fantasy settings with magic, is that you need to establish why none of the poo people were special before the MC and what kind of effort the MC put in to break the mold.
it is usually established as societies, or groups, being mediocre, unimaginative and restrictive. Main characters realize that and tries to free themselves from that mentality and with hard work, they can overcome it and defeat villain.
At least in Cinemaphile related media it is pretty commons and not done very well.
is because people cant truly imagine a world with free magic. If anyone can learn it, in the same rate and in the same proportions, nobody would want to be a peasant, merchant or a knight.
This is a completely ass backward take we're all old enough to remember when kids were all waiting to get their letter to hogwarts back in the 2000's anyone could secretly have a origin story kept from them kids don't know what their parents do for a living, being the Chosen one or having a predestined fate doesn't do anything to change the context of the story, the main character is already the Chosen one by virtue of being the character chosen by the author to lead the story.
I don't think half you morons know what a underdog is the vast majority of Chosen one stories are underdog stories Obi wan telling Luke about his heritage is only there to act as Luke's call to adventure but it's not until Return of the Jedi does he have anything to show for it.
Shifu (who HAD contacts in Gongmen City) saw Poo and instead of questioning why Oogway picked a guy from a almost extinct genocided race he just went "you picked a FAT guy???"
Poo was bigger than literally anyone in town
>Poo people have a myth they are actually descendants of Super special Royal Family >Most historians, even contemporary ones think it's a nonsense myth >But the average Poo person believes in and stays true to the myth so hard they proceed to surpass it and everyone after them claims to be descendants or successors of them like they really were a super special family all along
While it can be expected that most protagonists are special i one way or another, i often dislike the "actually, you were special all along" bullshit. If you are going to make the protagonist special, do it early
>itt ass blasted seething shounen hispanics
But in all seriousness I hate how “chosen ones” have become a dirty term. Played straight they are pretty boring yes but they’re one trope that I think can be “subverted” in interesting ways. (And frick me do I hate that word).
As some examples: the chosen one answers the call late, the chosen one is older than their early 20s, the prophecy is really vague and their are multiple possible chosen ones (Harry Potter kinda did this). Maybe even conflict or a war between said chosen ones before or after the war with the dark lord. Maybe the villain thinks he is the chosen one, or he straight up is, perhaps being the previous hero that grew tyrannical or paranoid. There’s a lot that can be done with it.
The "chosen one" or "child of destiny" or any of that shit isn't really the problem. It's always been an issue of poor execution where an author reveals late into the story that their main character was always destined to win and that nothing they did was really ever going to be a challenge or a struggle.
I don't think every story should have "it was their bloodline" in it for fantasy. Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals for something new or something more traditional.
>Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals for something new or something more traditional.
Most fantasy stories are royalty or monarchism in general.
This seems to be specifically about how RoSW supposedly ruined TLJ.
Honestly outside of having a weird ideological mindset, I don't see how people randomly being super powerful is more empowering than powers being determined by bloodlines.
>I don't see how people randomly being super powerful is more empowering than powers being determined by bloodlines.
It's an "Anyone can Cook" kind of deal, but I think this is just a general mash up of cliches from YA novels like obviously they're leaning into Harry Potter but also shit like Divergent. Like she said "Anyone can end up being greatly capable" has a message that underestimating others is not cool, but quickly becomes "actually we just had a slight oversight and the system is great"
Starwars is weird with this. People have been crying eugenics ever since midichlorians were revealed.
That's why I like Auralnauts' version, in which midichlorians are just heroin.
Everyone forgets that Lucas hadn't actually decided on whether or not Anakin was genuinely the Chosen One until Episode 3 (as until that point, what he intended was that the Jedi Council merely ASSUMED Anakin was the Chosen One based on his midi count, and that the throughline being pushed was that the Jedi fricked up everything by running on assumptions and pressuring some random orphan until he snapped)
>and even then, 3 was originally going to reveal that Anakin was the product of Palps and his master fricking with the Force via experiments
and even then, Anakin WASN'T the greatest Jedi in his time, or even the strongest. Midichlorian count is an indicator of Force POTENTIAL more than anything else. While powerful Force users can have a powerful bloodline of Force user children, any family can accidentally crap out a randomly strong Force user, even if the lineage is dominated by normies
Anakin COULD have become the strongest Force User period
>but we all see how that turned out
remember, this guy got his ass kicked by Obi Wan, and I don't think he exactly had a special lineage OR a high midi count
checked
Midichlorians in general are fricking ridiculous.
I don't even know why the frick George Lucas added that lore. It didn't add anything except cheapen the force as a concept. A spiritual will in the universe that is tied to the concept of destiny and psychic might? Yeah, you need the right blood to use it because it responds to what's in your cells rather than what's in your mind and soul. Stupid as frick. Makes the force seem like a fricking tool rather than a spiritual presence. Also has weird overtones of eugenics.
Midichlorians add nothing, they only take away.
>I don't even know why the frick George Lucas added that lore.
Really easy.
>He needed a way to know "Holy shit this guy is Yoda level!" right away
>His crazy ass idea with the Wylls
Couldn't he just have gone:
>"Wow, the Force is really strong in this child. We must kidn- I mean bring him to the order ASAP so we can indoctri- I mean train him."
>Skywalker
"This person is special because these robots need his help, his father was a jedi, and the king burned his home and family"
"This person is special because he's now a jedi"
"This person is special because his father is evil and ruling the galaxy"
"This person is special because he decided his father is wrong"
>midichlorians
"This person is special because the blood test says he is, okay!"
I really don't like the blood mites. It's a lot less natural storytelling, backwards in fact, probably because it was a prequel.
No idea what rosw or tlj are but this is the case for Harry Potter, Hilda, She-ra, Tokyo Ghoul sorta, My Hero Academia sorta, a huge amount of stuff.
Where's the joke?
>Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals
What fantasy are you reading?
Even mundane stories these days are about how pathetic normal people are in the face of the super handsome, super rich, super talented, whose one weakness is usually something like "Has no real friends".
>Part of fantasy is the destruction of the royal ideals for something new or something more traditional.
moron
>NOOOOO you have to teach children fake lessons that falsely convince them that they can do things they aren't physically able to do!
People are born with physical and mental differences that can cap or suppress their abilities compared to the people that were born with bodies and minds more ideal for those abilities. Hiding this fact from kids is developmentally stunting.
>No, I'm not a fatso because I'm a lazy, undisciplined slob
>This is just the natural shape of my body, it has nothing to do with effort
>there are some things you can control about yourself, therefore you can never acknowledge that there are other things that you can't
Extreme cope
He was genetically predisposed to be lazy and undisciplined.
He was born a rapist due to predisposition and temperament. Nobody is liable for their actions as they are machines.
Nobody actually says that.
Telling everyone they can do everything is bad for them in the long run, but so is telling them that hard work and dedication is meaningless because someone else is already naturally better at it.
I can't run as fast as some people, but through the magical power of not being a fricking pussy blaming my genetics I progressively got better and now I can run faster than the nitwits that could already run fast but didn't train.
It's the same shit with mental stuff as long as you're not clinically moronic.
You'll never be as good as someone born with a predisposition that apply themselves, but that doesn't mean you have to do nothing and accept being a bottom feeder all your life.
If you can't be the best at least try to be better.
>I can't run as fast as some people, but through the magical power of not being a fricking pussy blaming my genetics I progressively got better and now I can run faster than the nitwits that could already run fast but didn't train.
Cool. But unless you actually like the process of running, chances, that you'll get anything from that, are close to zero. Of course i might be mistaken and your job is to steal watermelons.
>the opposite extreme is bad too though!
No shit. Why is it so hard to just be honest and realistic instead of lying?
What I hate is that a lot of these stories pretend like the main character is an underdog just to slowly reveal they had more going on for them than anyone else. Anime does it a lot. Basically if you're going to make overpowered main characters, just do it and don't pretend they're underdogs.
I loved the reaction of One Piecegays when they realized his precious protagonist is the same as other shonen main characters, it just took them almost 20 years to realize it
Literally Steven Universe
Always loved how the story that was about a rag tag group of freedom fighters overcoming the odds against their oppressors turned out to be about a group of slaves freed by their owner and who's freedom is only maintained by their owner's progeny.
The Ugly Duckling, Armor, Furies of Calderon, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones
>Harry Potter
I don't think there are any delusions about Harry's lineage not being important.
Did Harry's lineage even mattered in the great scheme of things? Thought that the prophecy was the only important bit.
And the prophecy was a self fulfilling one as well. Deh took it seriously so it became real.
Only two things mattered about the Potter clan in HP: that they were rich so Harry inherited a fabulous treasure stored in an ancient goblin bank so he would not be impoverished, and that the Potter family had direct blood ties to the Peverells who made the Deathly Hallows which is why Harry’s invisibility cloak was that busted.
Weren't the family trees so god damn twisted together that everyone was related to the Peverells? The cloak was just passed father to son. Also despite supposedly being the true invisibility cloak of death himself it was seen through by a bunch of normal magical items, like moody's eye.
>father to son
That’s why I say direct, though it begs question why they’re Potter and not Peverell if the inheritance conga went like that.
>cloak
Honestly all the Deathly Hallows are probably just strong magic items and the story is just literally a bedtime story made up to mythologize them. The stone doesn’t actually bring your loved one back, the wand isn’t all powerful, the cloak can be detected.
Maybe at one point it the current owner only had a daughter and gave it to her. So when she married she became a potter.
The wand basically makes all your spells come out at maximum potential, but unless you have actual knowledge behind it you can be outmanuvered. Like if you only know a "magic tickle" spell, you can make the best magic tickle in the world, but it wont suddenly make you a master of magical combat.
Weak sauce. You should have the protagonist be the lost descendent of an ancient kingdom that was once usurped/deposed centuries ago by the current regime. And upon learning of this great secret and the near total genocide of her people, the descendent's true power awakens unlike anyone else's. With which she exacts justice upon the specials and rightfully reclaims her throne through grit and unwavering fury in the name of all who were killed.
Or where she chooses not too because she realizes revenge is an endless cycle.
Sure if you want to keep it all extra fictional
This is pretty much a metaphorical summary of what I write.
This seems to be specifically calling out Naruto but it fits a shitload of other stories too.
The problem is show keeps saying that it is about hardwork.
There is no problem with playing it completely straight and have the hero still connect more with the "poo people" and resent the specials.
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD NARUTO WAS NEVER ABOUT HARD WORK, ONLY THE FRICKING EXAM ARC HAD THAT AS A THEME YOU moron
>Naruto's biggest themes were concerning love, and breaking the cycle of war
IT WAS NEVER ABOUT MUH HARD WORK
Yes it was. It just lost its way, around the time it forgot that it was supposed to be about ninjas instead of sorcerers.
Lee's backstory was about overcoming moronness with hardwork and he didnt get too far as a character.
Meritocracy isnt a get rich scheme for hard workers, it's a 'right to be possible' for people who can detach themselves from the sheeple and make someting off it. Go talk about meritocracy to the Tetris creator who got his rights stolen by the guvmint while every game dev in the west was getting rich.
I don't appreciate poo people and I prefer that all the Pissraeli's erradicate and genocide them.
From the river to the sea, they will be flushed.
They're going to send the poo people to your country instead.
Of course. Typical Pissraeli tactic
>MC is special but in such a way that puts him in some form of disadvantage that he overcomes by simply being smarter and exploiting his skills to their maximum potential, no chosen one bs
Stories like this?
Pre-timeskip One Piece was like this, frick, I still think it's good but I miss when Luffy was an underdog
>implying Luffy was ever an underdog
I just don't get why people want underdog stories so badly IN POWER FANTASYSHIT because the metaphysics and logic of YA or Shonenshit are simply not compatible with "the nobody underdog with nothing but his body and mind can become god" mindset. The fate of any underdog story is that you end up with Batwank or "frick, I didn't think this through, better make him special so I don't end up with Batwank"
face it, you just want a power fantasy but have too many hangups getting in the way of it
People are moronic. Check out the skyrim general on /vg/, despite being le chosen one who saves the world, people mod their game to make it harder because they want to be an underdog poo person
>The fate of any underdog story is that you end up with Batwank or "frick, I didn't think this through, better make him special so I don't end up with Batwank"
that's only if it goes on forever like most cape stories due to power creep. if the story is self contained it will never get the chance to have batwank.
I think you're getting too caught up in the metanarrative to understand why One Piece was appealing.
>goes from a raggedy boat to the highest bounty in the east sea
>goes against a warlord of the sea
>goes against secret government agents
>get destroyed by an Admiral (Aokiji)
>barely escapes alive from Water 7, loses the Merry
>rest of Pre-Timeskip is Luffy losing all of his friends, getting beat up to a inch of his life twice, and losing his brother
The story reaches the lowest point at like, chapter 530 something. Luffy doesn't have a shot at becoming a Pirate King until Post-Timeskip
One Piece's appeal is in the sense of adventure in a world created to be explored and the pirate crew being a friend simulator, not as a power fantasy. Luffy's details and the battle manga elements are tertiary interests at best.
Nah man, at this point everyone wants to know what the frick is going to happen with the story. Clearly Oda has something prepared for the One Piece and the story is gearing up towards its conclusion very satisfyingly so far, actually.
>literal rape slaves confirmed a few chapters ago
It's definitely past being a friend simulator, feel-good story
>at this point everyone wants to know what the frick is going to happen with the story.
I never said they don't. One Piece is just an adventure story much more so than a battle shonen so it really shouldn't be compared to stuff like DB or Naruto in regards to its main character. The crew is the true main character and the appeal is in following them in their adventures.
Would you, please, remind me, when "D" in Monkey D. Luffy and other "D" persons like pirate king, Ace and Dragon has got its meaning?
We don't know what the D clan means, and literally the main villain is part of the clan. It doesn't denote anything yet.
Wasn't there something about The Will type tied to this "D"?
People want to believe that the protag is clever and determined enough to earn his victories. They want to suspend their disbelief and live in the moment of the story and indulge the stakes of the narrative, that there are consequences and dangers and risks.
Learning far later that the protag was being puppeteered and protected by forces that guaranteed and guided the protag through his journey to ensure that things would always go his way, that he'd never truly lose, and that no real harm could come to him can do a lot to weaken the audience's investment in the story.
Oda continually revealing new things that make Luffy super-extra-chosen is just sloppy writing, and it's redundant because he's already special by virtue of being the protagonist who changes the world with his special powers.
>Luffy
>underdog
In what world, in what country, in what universe even??
The majority of the time the plot is holding Luffy back from making the villain of the island a red smear. The only times Luffy really "lost" he's immediately back into it and destroys the villain, because Luffy needs to absolutely win and the author realized that he fricked with the power ranks.
I really do think some OP fans are delusional when they were competing with Naruto and Bleach back in the 2000's.
He literally lost his entire crew because he was too weak and realized he had to train for two years. Even when he unleashed Gear 4th, he couldn't beat Doflamingo alone and needed help from others. Had to run away from Big Mom too. Almost lost to Smoker back in the East Blue if his dad didn't come to bail him out.
Oh, yeah, and he was too weak to save his brother. Marineford was basically him as a guppy fighting amongst sharks. I don't think he beat anyone there that wasn't a generic Marine.
Ranking of Kings. Since the main character can't increase his strength at all, he just spent years training his agility and reaction time.
Demon Slayer, though fair warning the MC cannot and never does handle a major demon solo. He’s pretty clever and trains his ass off, but ultimately he can’t use his first choice style to its fullest.
Kind of funny because twice they fake you out into thinking he’s a chosen one. First time by him getting a newer style that works better and people thought “oh this must be the ultimate super ability that only he can use because he’s chosen by it!” Nope, it’s just a style that focuses more on power than that of his first choice. It still doesn’t work right because he needs to be able to move freely and he has to rely on his first choice for that. The reason everyone thought it was god tier was because Sword Jesus used it and styled all over the big bad, but that’s just him being him.
Then they hint he’s actually a descendant of sword Jesus and that’s why he can use the ability because his bloodline is super special and amazing. Nope. Turns out his entire connection to sword Jesus is “one time sword Jesus was really sad and needed someone to talk to so he talked to his ancestor. After he talked it out he hung with the family for a bit and showed a neat dance the ancestor memorized when he realized it helped keep them warm.” That’s it. He’s got as much blood between them as he does to a random fricker on the street, sword Jesus just needed to talk it out.
Lastly they did a mini fakeout with the black sword supposedly being special and unique, but nope. Turns out the swords react differently to grips. I’m not even joking, the sword is kind of magic and changes color depending on you holding it, they get a powerup through holding it harder late game.
Demon Slayer loved making you think he was special and then just revealing he really is just a lucky hillbilly
Naruto really mindmelted a lot of Americans, huh
You know, I don't even really GET why burgers are so assblasted about the protagonist being revealed to be special all along in the first place because 99% of power fantasy and wish fulfillment shit is aimed at teens and kids, and most teens and kids would rather prefer to be born as "nobility" because it further serves to push the escapism stuff
>what kid WOULDN'T dream that their parent was secretly the Magic Emperor Wizard Knight-King
Trying to shove BS meritocratic nonsense into shonenshit or power fantasy is moronic because it fails to understand why "the MC was special all along" is sold and accepted, and also fails to check if it actually is consistent with the story's existing internal logic
most power fantasy YA shit can't be meritocratic because it's a reflection of the real world, even if exaggerated - and "hard work can do anything" doesn't even work IRL
Chosen ones are still fricking lazy
The thing is the system with special people and poo people IS meritocratic. Poo people are inferior by their inferior abilities, not some arbitrary decission of someone else. Meritocracy will always include an underclass because some people just have good genes and some are shit.
Yes, as long as it stays a true meritocracy and doesn't devolve into bloodlines are just better without any effort. The Celestial dragons in one piece all beleive themselves to be better than everyone else despite not doing anything to prove it. They have no special powers at all, they are poo people with gold makeup. Their only claim to specialness is their great great great great great great great grandparents formed the world goverment.
Naruto was an egregious example because the reveal that Naruto was from a special OP bloodline and a literal avatar of god goes against EVERYTHING that went before that in the manga.
Naruto was an underdog and even his nine fox abilities were a curse as much as they were a blessing. Since it was the reason he was so neglected and hated. And he was an underdog in the world where OP bloodlines can make a difference and every village explictly valued their gifted ninjas more than the regular ones. Naruto fought all the time against those talanted ninjas with crazy bloodlines and it was the point that hard work and sheer willpower (or sometimes plain luck) beats talant and genetics. That is, until Naruto was revealed to be a literal deity in his world.
You can make your hero as talanted as you want, even make them a fricking royalty, but not if it contradicts all themes and morals of your story that you clearly established before.
Remember when it was revealed it was Goku's dad who wanted him to be the strongest?
>You can make your hero as talanted as you want, even make them a fricking royalty, but not if it contradicts all themes and morals of your story that you clearly established before.
This.
Bloodline royalty or not, just be consistent.
Americans have been brainwash to believe in a nurture based mindset compared to Asian who have been brainwashed into a nature based mindset.
Americans have been so deluded in defying destiny and exploitation that something being innate is something they can't truly grasp the concept of.
Asians have been indoctrinated into a society that has already chosen the role of a child before they are born such aborting girls that would be under the year of the fire horse since even if the parents didn't believe their child would grow up to murder her husband others would leading to a resentful life. Any person that defies their role in this society is filling a hole that would have happened as that is their true destiny their not defying it. Unable to uphold the natural order of things will always be a last resort.
You're shit at driving lmfao
Educative cartoons are a genre, go watch that if the idea of being a self insert with special powers offends you that much.
I remember that Owl House had an entire episode dedicated to crapping on the Chosen One as a trope and just like this comic, it fails to understand WHY the Chosen One trope exists and will continue to exist
>to clearly telegraph to the audience that the main character is of importance and is worth following
>to appeal to children's fantasies (what child wouldn't want to secretly be a prince or princess instead of a normie)
>culturally, to appeal to lineage and communities where family is important, and held in high regard and respected
A lot of people don't really GET that so they instead come into fantasy stories projecting their own miseries onto it
>well, if I just WORKED HARD enough, maybe some day, I could be a King or President or a Billionaire
The thing about meritocracy is that it DOESN'T FRICKING EXIST. If you are born poor, you will more than likely die poor. If you are born very rich, you and your children will more than likely die rich. Our fricking modern world sucks like that, but it's better to see the truth and work on trying to fix things rather than bury your head in the sand and keep lying
>so OF COURSE these same idiots go into fantasy fiction and expect the same results
>BUT IT DOESN'T EXIST because no child wants to read a story about a nobody WORKING HARD to become THE GREATEST because THAT'S FRICKING BORING
>and every time someone makes that a story, it's boring as shit and kids don't watch or read it
I really love the Pixar Rat Movie because it was honest: not everyone can be great, but greatness can come from anywhere.
By the same metric, the Chosen One doesn't fricking exist either.
of course the Chosen One doesn't fricking literally "really exist", but as an idea it exists throughout culture FOR A REASON, the concept of the fricking Chosen One can be seen in examples like the Messiah, the Maitreya, Kalki, Li Hong, Mab Darogan, etc.
The Chosen One is a meaningful and powerful idea, it represents hope, that faith and goodness will be rewarded by a legendary savior who will bring an everlasting peace
crapping on it because WAHHHH DIVINE RIGHT BAD is the worst takeaway imaginable
>of course the Chosen One doesn't fricking literally "really exist", but as an idea it exists throughout culture FOR A REASON, the concept of the fricking Chosen One can be seen in examples like the Messiah, the Maitreya, Kalki, Li Hong, Mab Darogan, etc.
and now there are a bunch of jackasses with main character syndrome who think they're one of the above
>BUT IT DOESN'T EXIST because no child wants to read a story about a nobody WORKING HARD to become THE GREATEST because THAT'S FRICKING BORING
Dunno, the idea of a nobody just coming out of nowhere and dunking on everybody else by sheer determination and will sounds fun, really, it just sounds like another form of power fantasy
and that's the fricking problem: muh nobodynormie MC becoming the greatest IS JUST POWER FANTASY with a Burger label slapped on top of it, it's something only dishonest people really crave for, people that are somehow more insecure than powerfantasygays
Going "muh normie human could beat EVERYONE ELSE" is how you get moronic shit like Batwank where "uhm guys he's a regular human being but he could TOTALLY solo everyone and everything imaginable"
no
you pathetic fricking homosexual
muh normie power fantasy cannot work without becoming just another power fantasy story in the end because it would require the inevitable escalation to make things work
otherwise what you would get is
>normie character gets fricking killed by normal means
and that's only if you had the balls to actually be CONSISTENT with that same fricking logic of the main character being normal, you have to FOLLOW THAT SHIT
Goku is a low class warrior and Ash is a nobody without a father and both managed to become the greatest* and also both lead some of the best selling franchises of the world.
Wrong. Pokemon is only popular because of the "accessible fantasy" element of it, not because of Ash. Kids love it because of the Pokeballs themselves: anyone can be a trainer and anyone can catch them all. Ash doesn't fricking matter, only that Pokemon can be caught by literally ANYONE, it's specifically why the player characters in the games are normies, it appeals to that Jap mindset
Goku IS STILL the Chosen One even if things weren't planned that way
>the Super Saiyan prophecy
>Bardock's vision
>Goku's circumstances when compared to other Saiyans
And while I'm here, it's important to talk about what the frick the "accessible fantasy" is. Shit like Ultraman, Kamen Rider, Magical Girl, Mecha, and other shit in Japan is able to have much wider success through making the power fantasy "universally accessible" via turning the superpower into an object
>magic belt, magic staff or wand, a robot, etc
Pokemon is another example of this, as the capsule catching nature of the Pokeball was cribbed from Ultraman
Ben 10 is an American example of the "accessible fantasy" - the Omnitrix is a watch that can be worn by anyone.
Goku also happens to be from a race of aliens with no power ceiling and the legendary Super Saiyan
>Ash
Ash kept losing for almost 30 years, not to mention his background or genetics have nothing to do with Pokemon battles because he's not the one actually fighting
Goku is an alien and even low class Saiyan warriors easily surpass the strongest humans and not to mention how much that gap has widen to this day. The character has two elements, he is without a doubt special but also has an underdog element to him that resonates. Really what I'm getting is that an extremly popular form of power fantasy usually combines merit and inherent value
That's what I said, it's really just another form of power fantasy so it really comes down to personal preference, you mentioned Batman and how much he is wanked which I agree it's stupid but that's also the result of how popular the character (and such power fantasy) is so he ends up being elevated to BatGod status. Also Batman, sorta really does both at the same time, he's a peak human born genius that no normie will ever catch up to BUT he lives in a world full of freaks, so the character gets to have both things at once.
Family wealth is squandered within four generations
>ignores the entire history of hereditary monarchies or banker classes
lmao
>poo person cope thread
>wow you worked so hard to get where you are today, Protag!
>Your perseverance and unwavering dedication to your beliefs helped you to achieve what no one thought possible
>also you're half angel, half devil, half God, descendant of the greatest warrior to ever live, the spirit of all warriors resides within you and only you, and also aliens came and tampered with your DNA in the womb so you'd be temporarily held back from your full potential as a child so no one would find you and abuse your special gifts which have pre-destined you to be the greatest being in all of existence
This is really more of an anime problem, but that shit really needs to stop happening in fiction forever.
Its a cartoon problem too
>boy character has to save the world
>he's the only one who can do it
>revealed to be the avtar and last airboy
>girl character supports the MC
>learns magick from i forget how
>later revealed she can do magick because uhm female wizard aliens
>asian character frequently saves his country from monsters
>is the chosen one because he's jackie chan
It's a problem everywhere really
>revealed to be the avatar and last airboy
Yeah but that was in the first episode and the main plot, unlike shit like Naruto or boku no hero academia.
For as shit as Naruto became, Naruto being special didn't fricking hurt Naruto as a character BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY SPECIAL BY THE METAPHYSICS OF THE FRICKING STORY
>has a fricking fox demon stuffed into him (which makes spamming Shadow Clones easier and gives him a monopoly on it)
>is son of the previous Ninja President
I feel like the reveal was only a reveal for moronic people
The guy who got me my subs didnt think the dead president was rutos dad because 'hes an orphan, orphans dont have parents'
AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER, LITERALLY THE NAME OF THE SHOW. COME BACK WHEN IT'S NARUTO: THE LAST homosexual.
Well there was a "Naruto: The Last" if that counts
Aang was only the airbender because the last one was fire nation and died
He would've been a generic poo person otherwise
The thing that pissed me off the most about korra was my inability to understand aangs arrow tattoos werent part of being the avatar. So korras gay glowy eyes felt mid
People who think Naruto being the reincarnation of Indra/Ashura goes against the themes of the story are brainlets. It served to highlight his goal of remaking the ninja world. Every incarnation before him only served to perpetuate it and their immense power only led to more conflict with each other. Despite being a reincarnation of the main perpetrators of this cycle, he was able to break it, with him being able to reconcile with Sasuke instead of killing him being a microcosm of that and a proof of concept.
>Japan-lite
>???
>bigger Japan
Sounds like an East Asian problem
The Avatar is part of the premise moron
>when you take the obvious bait
>this is an Asian problem
>no it's everyone's problem, see: [references Asian media]
>point out it's still an Asian problem
>>le bait!
Anon?
What about Hercules?
Meds are asian
>revealed to be the avtar and last airboy
In the first episode and series title you fricking omega moron
>but that shit really needs to stop happening in fiction forever.
>t. joyless poo "person"
Bloodline stuff is based when done intentionally and well. It highlights the value of family. It can show how problems caused generationally much be solved generationally. Or it can show the importance of accepting responsibility and/or gifts you have been given as opposed to running from it. Or the ability to break from what is perceived as destiny or to accept it. etc. etc. LotR, Dune, etc. Lots of stuff does it well and it can lead to more nuanced stories and themes.
It helps that Aragorn isn't really a chosen one in the sense he's destined to do shit so much as he stepped up to fulfill what his lineage always had to do and it didn't grant him much of anything apart from responsibility which of course he parlayed into a one off ghost army. Also that he's a supporting character in a grander story, everyone has a part to play and he chose to view himself and even his Kingdom as serving the greater cause of ridding Middle Earth of Sauron and was willing to die as a diversion all in hopes that Frodo would destroy the ring.
This. A meritocracy could never devolve into nepotism and cronyism, they're just GOOD at what they do.
In the books it's made more clear that Aragorns claim is a bit shaky as his family was deliberately cut from the line of kings generations ago. Aragorn is just incredibly competent.
Although to be fair the Hobbits are supposed to be the protagonists of LotR, and there is a running gag where people have no clue what a hobbit even is. Treebeard mentions they are absent from the Ents ancient lore.
Ratatouille
>poo person chef revealed to be son of fat ghost that haunts schizo rat
Poo person remained a poo person until the end, but he found his talent as a waiter
The problem with the "everyone can be special" angle, especially in fantasy settings with magic, is that you need to establish why none of the poo people were special before the MC and what kind of effort the MC put in to break the mold.
The Dragon Prince ran into this exact problem.
it is usually established as societies, or groups, being mediocre, unimaginative and restrictive. Main characters realize that and tries to free themselves from that mentality and with hard work, they can overcome it and defeat villain.
At least in Cinemaphile related media it is pretty commons and not done very well.
is because people cant truly imagine a world with free magic. If anyone can learn it, in the same rate and in the same proportions, nobody would want to be a peasant, merchant or a knight.
This is a completely ass backward take we're all old enough to remember when kids were all waiting to get their letter to hogwarts back in the 2000's anyone could secretly have a origin story kept from them kids don't know what their parents do for a living, being the Chosen one or having a predestined fate doesn't do anything to change the context of the story, the main character is already the Chosen one by virtue of being the character chosen by the author to lead the story.
I don't think half you morons know what a underdog is the vast majority of Chosen one stories are underdog stories Obi wan telling Luke about his heritage is only there to act as Luke's call to adventure but it's not until Return of the Jedi does he have anything to show for it.
but muh prequels
>Naruto
>The villain went bad because he learned he was a poo person.
>The hero is a special because he's fat.
And they he discovered he was from a lineage of holy pandas.
Shifu (who HAD contacts in Gongmen City) saw Poo and instead of questioning why Oogway picked a guy from a almost extinct genocided race he just went "you picked a FAT guy???"
Poo was bigger than literally anyone in town
>Poo people have a myth they are actually descendants of Super special Royal Family
>Most historians, even contemporary ones think it's a nonsense myth
>But the average Poo person believes in and stays true to the myth so hard they proceed to surpass it and everyone after them claims to be descendants or successors of them like they really were a super special family all along
>no napoleon spin-off
shit that short run was great
While it can be expected that most protagonists are special i one way or another, i often dislike the "actually, you were special all along" bullshit. If you are going to make the protagonist special, do it early
Lose
>itt ass blasted seething shounen hispanics
But in all seriousness I hate how “chosen ones” have become a dirty term. Played straight they are pretty boring yes but they’re one trope that I think can be “subverted” in interesting ways. (And frick me do I hate that word).
As some examples: the chosen one answers the call late, the chosen one is older than their early 20s, the prophecy is really vague and their are multiple possible chosen ones (Harry Potter kinda did this). Maybe even conflict or a war between said chosen ones before or after the war with the dark lord. Maybe the villain thinks he is the chosen one, or he straight up is, perhaps being the previous hero that grew tyrannical or paranoid. There’s a lot that can be done with it.
The "chosen one" or "child of destiny" or any of that shit isn't really the problem. It's always been an issue of poor execution where an author reveals late into the story that their main character was always destined to win and that nothing they did was really ever going to be a challenge or a struggle.
Being revealed the chosen one late in the series is an excuse for an awful asspull and thats why people hate it.