So... was Tony whacked and if so, by whomst?
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So... was Tony whacked and if so, by whomst?
So... was Tony whacked and if so, by whomst?
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
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CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
What did the ketchup mean?
Did it foreshadow a hit?
The israelites hit Tony, it was Hesh
Paulie set it up
Honestly he fricked with so many people it could be literally anyone.
It was the vipers!
Not before (you) were
Paulie made a deal with Carmine jr. No way Tony lives with Phil dead, they had to even things out.
Carmine? There is no evidence for this? And why would they need to even anything out? If it were a reprisal then sure, but the Phil hit was an agreement between all the families.
Maybe if it had been a clean hit, they could have let it slide. They never really gave him up, they just promised not to retaliate. But Phil was killed in front of his wife and grandkids and had his head crushed by a car, so forget an open casket. This looks really really bad for anyone taking over the family, especially since Phil was a respected old school made guy. Tony on the other hand was involved in nothing but trouble for New York during the last few years and punched way up above his weight for such a shitty tiny family. Just to regain the respect of the other families, they had to kill him, nevermind him being indicted any day now.
As for who would run the Lupertazzis, I do tend to think that Carmine would be the most likely candidate. Certainly more than Butchie, who basically only spend a few months as Underboss to Phil.
all good points but I think Little Carmine genuinely didn't want it. And his last meeting with Tony indicated he genuinely wasn't playing some game of cat and mouse. He is too dopey anyway lol. I think Butchie had the gabagool to seize power after Phil.
>all good points but I think Little Carmine genuinely didn't want it.
I don't know. When Tony comes over to talk him into going for the big seat, he mentions that part of why he doesn't want it is because Doc Santoro had now cemented his position. So despite the great story he told, he hadn't completely stopped thinking about it. At the end he might seem like a great compromise candidate to help stabilize a family that went through three new bosses in like two years. He has the name and the blood and half of them had already considered supporting him in the past. Anyway, if ends up being Carmine, whacking Tony would earn him a lot of respect in his family. Nevermind that Tony would never take him seriously.
all fair points, I follow a kind of checkov's gun rule in reverse though. If the possibility is not hinted at, it isn't on the table for me no matter how possible. I am open to the idea Paulie had something to do with it seen as how Tony gave him Carlo's crew, and he looked really guilty and torn as he exited (this might be because he thought it was cursed though). It isn't solid evidence but it is on the table.
Carmine may have had means, motive, and opportunity, but until there is some sly look that indicates to me it is a possibility, then I don't follow that thread.
You may be right and I may be wrong though.
I mean the succession of the New York family is generally never discussed after Phil's death, so it's all speculation. There maybe hints but to be honest, after Many Saints of Newark I wonder if Chase was given too much credit sometimes.
I am absolutely certain that Tony got whacked and New York is the best candidate. As for Paulie being behind it, I don't know, possibly (the scissors might be a clue), but if anyone is involed it's Patsy. He also would be the one knowing where Tony would meet up with his family, since his son was dating Meadow.
>scissors
what do the barber scissors foreshadow? cos Butchie met those guys in a barbershop? If Paulie was there, why would he steal their merch?
>As for Paulie being behind it
On my last rewatch of the show, I got the greater sense than previously that Paulie was doing business with New York, most likely for self preservation. There's a scene in one of the last couple episodes where Phil, Butchie, and some others are discussing who to hit and Paulie's name comes up and is quickly shot down. It is brought up that they're going after high ranking Jersey guys so it may reflect more on his diminished status, but I got the feeling that there was more to it. It also has to be brought up that Paulie knew that Tony was ready to kill him on that boat. There's a lot of conflict internally with Paulie in the last season and I think he was ready to let Tony go and work as a Captain for New York.
He tried to change to NY too. So he was looking to bail before.
For both the NJ and NY mob to survive the feud needs to be put behind them. If the NY mob's boss (Phil) dies and the NJ mob's boss doesn't die, NY mob will get pissed and want to continue fighting. Not tough to understand.
Although this hardly matters anyway since its implied that Phil and Tony's lives were both part of the deal, since both were constantly starting shit. Idea was they're both killed and each crew continues operations in a more peaceful direction.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy did it.
What is with the jacket? Is it a sub-crew of some kind in the Mafia? Or is it just coincidence that Eugene and this guy are wearing them? It is a real life fashion brand.
But why would the wardrobe department pick it out a distinctive jacket that Eugene wore if it were meaningly? Vito even named the brand himself.
i think its supposed to be like his ghosts haunting him or whatever
he fricked over so many little guys it doesn't really matter which one specifically
Then all the rest of the people must mean something. The cub scouts, the trucker, the two black guys that walk in. Who are they?
idk maybe they're all the archetypical victims that tony took advantage of
boy scouts are supposed to be good people, truckers are working people, black people are minorities
real boring point here but a lot of people don't realize this was an actual highly popular jacket every numbskull in NYC had because of the novelty and cheap leather
The Members Only jackets were big in the 80s throughout the US, especially among mobbed up dagos.
Then who was the mobbed up dago who went to the bathroom? He is in the mob but doesn't let onto or pay his respects to his boss/a NJ boss? He is under the radar and a hitman. The bathroom part even reflects the Godfather restaurant scene
He's an under the radar hitman wearing a mob jersey? That's like being a KGB agent in Washington and wearing a red star on your lapel
so he is either a dago who wearing mob gear who is eye balling tony and then goes to the restroom like in the classic godfather hit but is just a civilian with people watching fetish.
Or he is a hitman, and looks and acts the part. All the hits are performed by clear guineas in the show. No one is wearing a fricking fake mustache or mistral makeup to do a hit.
>he never heard of the SS blue scarves
It doesnt matter, the whole scene with Eugene whacking some rando in a diner while he's wearing the members only jacket is just another fricking clue left by the brainiac Chase in case you, like the OP, miss the other 99 clues that are supposed to reaffirm that Tony gets whacked and does not in fact survive. Just like the 2 black guys.
I forgot that Eugene does his last job in a chicken shop, well spotted anon. What about the two black guys? The ones that Chris hired to hit Carmine Sr?
More importantly the ones hired by Jr. to whack Tony that end up botching the hit. Animal Blundetto also mentions 2 black guys, i think in the scene where he and tony are sitting in the backyard at some point. It's a running gag with 2 black guys. I bet theres at least 2 more instances that i cant think of rn.
>Animal Blundetto
lol
I cant even say his name.
Yeah even more spot on.
The guy that Eugene whacks in the diner was called Teddy Spirodakis, TS, like Tony Soprano. Also Fabian Petrulio, the pentitio Tony strangles in season 1 while checking out colleges with Meadow, first calls Tony Teddy, while pleading with him.
>pentitio
Huh, what? I think you mean a FRICKING RAT!!
The whole of season 6b is a dream. Tony was in the coma the whole time. The diner scene is him letting go and coming to terms with the fact he can't control everything. Then he dies. So yes he was whacked, and uncle junior did it.
where is your evidence for this?
I wrote the series.
Maedo
Is this a serious theory? What a load of rubbish.
Doesn't matter, point is that he died a spiritual death, so even if he lived for another decade there'd be nothing worth reporting on.
>he died a spiritual death
A what
This, he already did all the harm he could and as a man he just cant change and there's no story to tell at this point. So it doesnt matter if gets killed there or 10 years later or whatever. I think this is the most dissected ending in the history of cinema
His daughter. Because he lied to her about his job.
Butch. NY clearing all remaining bad blood but on the pretence that Tony needs to go because of the upcoming RICO trial.
Could be the case. Was Paulie in on it?
I legitimately don't think they would even bother with Paulie. Afterwards they might reach out to him so see if he wants a role under their Jersey operation to keep the peace but they really wouldn't need his approval or assistance.
The ending wasn’t left up to interpretation, the creators said it ended that way to show you that life goes on. They all just move on with their life and get dinner.
Is that really what they said?
No, that anon is a gay
It’s true you can find it on YouTube and on the dvd commentary
Pretty sure Chase said that he wants it to be left a mystery because it is autistic to want all the answers so he left it open ended and just wants us to accept we will never know.
Tony getting whacked would make no sense.
Tony basically eliminated all in-house treats and made peace with NY. Inside NJ here's only two with the motive to make a move against Tony - Furio who was probably dead and wouldn't have the means to do it anyway, and Patsy who kinda knew that Tony killed his brother. But his son was to marry Meadow, so you can rule him out especially since his sort of beef with Tony was never really mentioned again. People saying it was a relative of Eugene are moronic. Eugene killed himself, not like he left a note: *oh btw I blame Tony for not letting me retire*
As for NY, the hit on Phil was sanctioned by Butchie and was done because *the war was bad for business* and nobody liked Phil's outdated leadership.
Tony doesn't get whacked there but the threat of getting whacked or arrested is ever present, even when enjoying a meal with your wife and kids, it takes but a moment and it's over. That's the point of the ending scene - it recaps the entirety of the show and tells you exactly what's in the store for Tony. Stress and anxiety until he goes to jail or gets killed. Meanwhile Carmine Jr. fricks his wife and sips wienertails in Miami and doesn't have to worry about any of that.
>Eugene killed himself, not like he left a note: *oh btw I blame Tony for not letting me retire*
His wife did and she has 2 million dollars now, she could have ordered a hit
>Tony doesn't get whacked there but the threat of getting whacked or arrested is ever present, even when enjoying a meal with your wife and kids, it takes but a moment and it's over. That's the point of the ending scene - it recaps the entirety of the show and tells you exactly what's in the store for Tony. Stress and anxiety until he goes to jail or gets killed. Meanwhile Carmine Jr. fricks his wife and sips wienertails in Miami and doesn't have to worry about any of that.
This is a much more water tight theory, that we are seeing the world through Tony's eyes for the first time, not as a voyeur.
but it can't be because he wouldn't be seeing himself, would he? POV issue
It doesn't have to literally be from his pov you pleb. You ever seen fricking Rashamon?
>Tony doesn't get whacked there but the threat of getting whacked or arrested is ever present, even when enjoying a meal with your wife and kids, it takes but a moment and it's over. That's the point of the ending scene - it recaps the entirety of the show and tells you exactly what's in the store for Tony. Stress and anxiety until he goes to jail or gets killed.
But Tony isn't really paranoid in that scene. He looks up for his family everytime the door opens, but then quickly loses interest into who is entering. The man in the MO jacket is seen watching him suspiciously the entire time out of focus and Tony doesn't really notices. He doesn't worry about being whacked, he worries about the indictments. The viewer is getting paranoid because it feels like something will happen, but Tony doesn't seem aware of it.
True, I think the MO jacket guy pulled the trigger, who has behind it is another matter.
>it recaps the entirety of the show and tells you exactly what's in the store for Tony. Stress and anxiety until he goes to jail or gets killed
wasnt half that mob down on new jersey rats and they never got anything out of it either way?
Tony was both extremely lucky and extremely paranoid and was able to isolate himself from wiretaps and rats effectively. The only two rats that got the best of Tony were Ray Curto(who died right before he was going to testify) and Carlo. Tony was very apt at noticing the rats he had to deal with Jack Massarone, Jimmy Altieri, and Pussy(although with Puss he was in denial for the whole season and kept him at an arms length).
>Ray Curto
He went undiscovered for years, heck even at the time of his death the crew thought he was loyal
>Jimmy Altieri
This was so random, has it ever been confirmed?
Doubt Furio was dead, the guys Tony sent would have to be able to get to him in Italy amongst the Italian mafia, which was shown to be way more competent than the American mafia.
Also it was Paulie and Patsy who set up Tony's hit.
>Tony doesn't get whacked there but the threat of getting whacked or arrested is ever present, even when enjoying a meal with your wife and kids, it takes but a moment and it's over. That's the point of the ending scene
Nah it isn't, this is a common brainlet misconception.
Go and rewatch the scene. Tony isn't stressed or anxious at all, he's not even looking around the restaurant at the people you as the viewer are noticing, which is causing YOU anxiety. Tony doesn't even look at the member's only jacket guy, for example, doesn't even notice him. He's too busy watching the door expectantly waiting for his family to show up.
The scene is kind of masterfully done because YOU'RE the one who's anxious, because you sense what's coming. Tony isn't anxious at all and doesn't sense anything. Most midwit viewers projected their own feelings onto Tony, so we got this midwit take "brooo the point is how scared Tony will be for his whole life haha"
<go dark, not even fade to black, just fricking zap>
Frick 'em. Let the audience figure it out. We are done with this shit.
Bravo!
Handiwork of Benny Fazio, the criminal mastermind.
The psycho logist did it because she couldnt listen to him anymore
There's a great explanation on one of the many reviews left on IMDB about what happens at the end of that scene, which to make it short is nothing, the scene is so masterfully crafted, the suspense build up is immense, from the song playing in the background, to the various different shots highlighting different points of focus for the viewer, everything seems to be happening all at once, to the very obvious godfather reference of the guy going to the bathroom (to retrieve a gun, supposedly), but nothing really happens to the abrupt black screen end with the music playing, it's honestly the most powerful scene of the entire series, especially when you contextualize it to the main viewerbase at the time who had followed thoroughly the sopranos over the years, it's up to interpretation, tony had many reasons to have died there but there isn't a clear character or nothing was really ever hinted that he would've died there at that point.
Tone was informant. New York find out. offed him.
Simple as. Tone circle was dead in the water and was slowly loosing ground. Rats at every corner.
The fbi knew that and didnt care about them they wanted the big guys at new york.
Charles Schwab ova here
Why was the Agent Harris guy so up to help Tony whack Phil? He even cheered at the end??
he just took a liking to Tony, who cares
It's the Jersey thing I am sure, and he probably had stockholm syndrome from having a kino fbi job on the mob and then having to go to pakistan and getting a parasite, so he sees Tony as part of his glory days.
Cholesterol wacked Tony.
lots of potential wackers
Dont stop IRL
Why's it always brazil?
Who even watches wopshit these days.
>HEHEH LE HECK
>HEH LE HECKIN GAB OF GOOL!!
>AY TONE THE GAB OF GOOL!
>DA GAP UB GOOL TONE!!!! LE HECKIN
>HECKIN LE HECK LE LE HECKIN HECK GAB OF GOOLERINOOOOOOOOOOOOO LE HECKIN
I think it was all a dream. Think about it.
it was the jacket
Chase literally spells it out for you moron. Noah punched Tony's lights out.
Probably the laziest and most cowardly ending of any show, but people lap it up for some reason