So whats the opinion on the 2003-2011 Teen Titans run
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So whats the opinion on the 2003-2011 Teen Titans run
So whats the opinion on the 2003-2011 Teen Titans run
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It stinks.
it killed a perfectly good Young Justice run.
I really wanna know why they did that cause we know the show borrowed alot from the 1998 run of Young Justice and it worked out in the end.
>Killed YJ
>Stole it's name
>Made a show that wasn't YJ at all but now whenever you look up YJ all you get is that fricking cartoon.
Shit sucks. I want actual YJ.
I was referring to Teen Titans cartoon. Peter David even wrote the shows story bible.
Dan Didio hated Young Justice and all titles that skewed "comedy"
What a b***h.
It's funny because if you look at the DC fandom under 25 or internationally..a lot of what gets fanart and discussion is JLI, NTT, the YJ generation..all things Didio disliked or wanted to heavily change. People who were too young to read even New 52 and maybe even missed out on Rebirth
Didio lamented a few years back that they lost a generation of readers(he had a complex about trying to get new readers after a guy asked if they'd complete a collection of 60's comics before he died)-and now all these 2000's and new 52 changes are considered a weird era of missteps to these readers.
PAD pointed out that the entire point of Young Justice was bringing in younger readers who'd use it as a stepping stone to the other, older skewing DC books. Also DiDio hated, HATED, Slobo and thought he somehow ruined Lobo but as PAD said...
>As for Slobo, I wanted to introduce a Wolverine-esque character to stir things up. Since the book featured junior versions of Superman, Batman, and the Flash, a junior version of Lobo seemed perfectly appropriate. A character who was, in his execution and handling, far more serious than Dan remotely gives him credit for (because, y'know, having Slobo go slowly blind was such a knee-slapper of a storyline). And, frankly, I think that a company that raped and murdered Sue Dibny, murdered Blue Beetle, tortured and crippled Batgirl, and had both Superman and Wonder Woman at various times cold-bloodedly murder opponents, doesn't get to say that *I* ruined one of their characters.
Didio was 100% right about Slobo.
This was on Didio's watch.
Don't shit on Slobo when Johns left this.
Nubo > Slobo
>This was on Didio's watch.
Like PAD said, given all the shit DC/DiDio doesn't really get to point fingers at others for supposedly ruining characters
That’s how you know it was great.
DiDio despised Young Justice; hated the style and tone thinking it was too juvenile and that its sales didn't justify keeping it around. But it was a book aimed more at younger readers (teens/kids) and did well with them. DiDio has also always been obsessed with synergy and characters in the comics being close to what he feels are their most iconic versions (which is usually the late Silver/early Bronze Age versions... think Satellite era JLA) and for the Titans that's obviously the NTT team. It's also why he hates legacies and stuff like Dick being Nightwing.
Anyway, DiDio had YJ cancelled and replaces with a new TT book and a lineup that combined the YJ cast with the Wolfman holdovers including resurrecting Raven in a form matching the cartoon version. Johns, much as I dislike him, is actually not to blame for what happened to Bart. That was a DiDio call who felt that if they had to have him then he needed to be Kid Flash and not Impulse presumably because more people knew who Kid Flash was.
That Titans run is pretty bad largely because whoever wrote it, Johns included, had to deal with Eddie Berganza and his assistants making all kinds of demands and denials on who they could use or editorial obtuseness. Johns, for instance, wanted Duela on the OYL team but nobody told him that she was being killed in Countdown so he did the set up and then was told she was dying so had to scrap the issue where she joined. McKeever said that editorial would constantly had him whole plots to script, then re-script his scripts and keep his name on issues he essentially never wrote like the infamous Wonder Dog issue.
Plus, Johns' final issues were actually scripted by Adam Beechen based off his outlines from what I remember of interviews at the time. Johns had pretty much checked out during OYL since it was no longer fun for him, and he said Superboy and Kid Flash being dead was a huge part of that.
Awful, Johns destroyed the Young Justice cast. The only positive thing I can say about it is that Johns didn't pretend Deathstroke was a misunderstood antihero or whatever.
Not as good as Young Justice, but still good. I'd say very good, even.
2 kinds of people.
Right people and wrong people. Guess which is which.
Ruined the franchise forever, no exaggeration.
They should have just done a new Tales of the Teen Titans series with modern stories about the classic team.
Cereal Lord was a mistake
>ruined the YJ four
>started the trend of deaging Raven with every new Robin
>started the trend of mindlessly killing off members for no reason other than shock value
Bad
I feel like the Young Justice cartoon borrowed from this run.
Young Justice comic inspired Teen Titans cartoon
Teen Titans comic inspired Young Justice cartoon
I think adult Titans comic should be the x men melodrama (basically how it's been since Rebirth and now with Taylor)
Young Justice comic should be teen soap opera with the YJ 4
They should try to just make a fun Teen Titans comic. The Rebirth run with Damian was a step in the right direction. TT Academy sucked but there's potential in the premise
This is one of the factors in why the cartoon is seen fondly honestly. Teenage superheroes getting into absurd situations.
I have to lol at how Kon-El got like 100 pounds heavier and got a quarterback build like he was on roids plus the whole lazy civvies costume that other media keep using since it's easy
He just went through puberty.
There's one poster that always says that 90's Kon looked like a gay and 03 Kon was better
...but Kon started acting way more homosexual. Kon had already resolved his existential angst in favor of seizing the present, and not caring if his origin was less than stellar, he was happy to do the symbol proud.
Even if you did retcon Luthor into his dad, he shouldn't care. He didn't worry about Westfield's genetics turning him bad or even a nerd. It reeks of elevator pitch and having the characters meta aware. Kon fears he's going to be like Luthor because of COURSE Luthor is Superman's archenemy and he's bald so he also has to be bald.
YJ Kon would rip on Johns Kon so bad.
I haven't read all of Kon's original run since it's 100 issues and I prefer reading trades and not reading floppies, and I got tired of stitching together my own trades to read digital pirated floppies - but OG Kon went through far more chasing females and landing females.
That 'looked' like is pure metro-sexual angst and jealousy from likely fat cheetos dusted buttholes who can't pay girls to give them a second look.
This run ruined Kon for like decades, and I even like the Luthor/Clark retcon.
gave us edgy butthole Static Shock. which I hated
I first got into comics around 04, partly because of the TT cartoon.
I hated it. Not because it wasn't like the cartoon, but because people recommended me YJ to me and I binged every issue I could find. YJ still holds up really well, TT03 feels like an out of touch guy trying to write teenagers.
It's still my benchmark for teenagers written by out of touch adults.
I think its telling how the cartoon borrowed from Young Justice 1998 and became successful
While Yj became pretty terrible after Onions TT genuinely did irreparable damage to the characters.
My hot take take is that McKeever/ Miller run was leagues better than Johns stuff when it came to pure character writing where all the characters actually felt like teens instead of walking plotlines begging for adaptation.
McKeever was brought onto the book specifically because he'd built his name writing highly regarded team books and he said it had been his dream job. The experience was so miserable that Wolfman had to talk him out of quitting and it more or less ruined his reputation.
The whole '03 run seemed like it was full of false hope spots and DC editorial dangling keys above the fans, hyping "It'll be brighter and happier this time! We mean it!" with the creative team shifts only for more slaughter and convoluted frickery to go on.
That honestly tragic. His team had so much more chemistry than Johns
McKeever on TT seems like one of those no-brainer surefire successes that it's amazing how the incredibly incompetent DC editorial managed to mess it up.
I still get mad when I read stuff like Didio's New 52 retrospective where he acts like he's some genius that was totally focused on story when he and his editorial fricked up almost everything they touched.
McKeever was Countdown era DC. Didio was huffing his own farts and doing 52-done-right and overall just making a mess of everything and alienating everyone with Countdown tie-ins that made no sense.
Same for New 52, they didn't have the experienced creative/editorial staff and he kept insisting on 52 titles, which was too many. And a lot of shit titles got through and they kept churning out shit with ex-Marvel writers that Harras knew from his Marvels days like Liefeld, Tony Daniel, Lobdell, DeFalco and Nocienti that eventually the whole thing folded after just 5 years.
>Sins Of Youth
Judd Winnick's Outsiders was better
Nobody is gonna mention like how OP is talking about several different writers?
Also I'm fairly sure DiDio just flat out hated PAD. YJ and Supergirl both got unceremoniously axed in favor of bringing back versions closer to the classic ones. He got Fallen Angels (where he repurposed Supergirl ideas) but that got cancelled and I don't think he's written a thing for DC in almost 20 years and given his health, even if current non-DiDio DC wanted him to write something he might not be able to.
It's weird as hell how hard DC in general memoryholed PAD's Supergirl. Ever since she unceremoniously vanished the character has been acknowledged maybe once ever. So bizarre to me.
Pity Dc has no good writers left. A Kara/Linda/Matrix crossover would be so cool. Plus, you finally give Linda her happy ending (and Matrix too honestly).
Because addressing the fact that there was another 2 supergirls before Kara and this went on for years ruins the illusion of time not passing.
I don't think DC even knows how old Kara is or when Superman found her.
Batman gets to keep all his robins and batgirls.
Because Didio hated her.
And apparently Supergirl and Didio himself is what got Peter David blacklisted from DC (the same blacklist Waid was on for years before the bald goatfricker was finally fired)..
He also hated characters like Nightwing and Cassandra Cain but they're allowed to exist now.
The people behind Nightwing or Cass like Wolfman or Puckett never got blacklisted at DC. Peter David was one of DC's mainstays during the 90s with Aquaman, Supergirl and YJ. And Didio put a kibosh to it because of Supergirl and Peter David has pretty much never come back because of his later Marvel exclusive and his health problems.
Mark Waid post here attests to a blacklist by Didio.
Dictator Didio loved branding whatever characters he hated as toxic, while being some terrible influence himself all the while.
That man was a blight on DC. Only good thing AT&T did was firing his ass.
Missed opportunities all over the place, and ages terribly. You can tell Johns was made more for TV melodrama writing than comics writing too, and that's not a compliment.
Probably the last decent TT book we’ve had in a long time
This is, unfortunately, the real truth. As mediocre as it was, it is the best Teen Titans we have had since Wolfman and Perez.
it's shit
DIDIO killed them