So you can send protons at the speed of light, but you can't send spaceships the same way? Nice "hard sci-fi"
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So you can send protons at the speed of light, but you can't send spaceships the same way?
Spaceships are not protons
They literally are protons, neutrons and electrons. Everything is, except for light.
>and
exactly
they needed 1 million years to send one (1) atom. Imagine how much more time they would need to send an entire ship
what i don't understand is how their civilization survives any catastrophes during the 1 million years.
surely by the time the proton arrives on earth they will get another planet size catastrophe from the 3 body orbital system, then their descendants would be too busy surviving to invade another planet.
also if they can build a super computer why can't they just find another planet in the goldilocks zone and move there?
the motivations are kinda iffy if you analyse them beyond "we like your planet homie gimme that planet homie"
Their catastrophes happen every few MILLION years, anon...
They say in the show that it happens every few hundred, few thousand years
>in the show
Do you even know in which board you are?
>what i don't understand is how their civilization survives any catastrophes during the 1 million years
They don't. Individuals can survive by drying themselves up, but they have to start from scratch every single time this happens.
>by the time the proton arrives on earth they will get another planet size catastrophe from the 3 body orbital system, then their descendants would be too busy surviving to invade another planet.
There's an entire fleet of them on their way to Earth. The ones that remained on Trisolaris are basically doomed, at least for the foreseable future.
ah thank you for explaining this. i still think the alien motivations are cartoonishly evil but it makes sense if fueled by millions of years of survival
people always try to point out the farfetched parts of the sci-fi but nobody ever mentions the biggest lie in series, that quantum entanglement cannot transfer any information ftl. It is a hard coded rule of physics.
>quantum entanglement cannot transfer any information ftl
wut? that's literally the whole premise of quantum entanglement.
Are you dumb?
elaborate
>wut? that's literally the whole premise of quantum entanglement.
It's literally the fricking opposite. You can't transmit information because the measurement of any of the entangled particles at any given time is fundamentally random.
But considering sophons are actually supercomputers and not simple particles I guess it could work in-universe.
i knew that reading the books but it didn't bother me. I can forgive a lot as long as the story is interesting
i had the same reaction anon
The other concepts are interesting enough and accurate that you can forgive some inaccuracies.
what are these interesting concepts
Wallfacer ideas, proton folding unfolding.
I’m not finished yet with the books so that’s all I can think of for now
yeah ever sci-fi has it's lies
Except sophons aren't normal particles.
homie we can literally propel particles like protons to the speed of light inside colliders yet we can't achieve near lightspeed travel. Think about it for a second if you can.
we do that in a mangnetic field on earth
that's different than sending a proton to a planet 4 ly away and making it just stop there
>sending a proton to a planet 4 ly away and making it just stop there
Sophons are protons that have been dimensionally unfolded and turned into supercomputers, they can move around at will. How that would even work I don't know because it's not a particularly plausible concept.
>How that would even work
rocket engines, but very tiny
we are already traveling at faster than the speed of light relative to an observer outside the observable universe, due to the expansion of the universe.
>we can't achieve
>impossible
is fricking-love-science tier midwit thinking. bet you think the universe is 13 billion years old too? reddit science.
So you can pretend to have a diverse cast but you erase all the asian men?
Someone explain please what is a sophon. Also how come they send spaceship bigger than earth, but can't send the rest and have to wait for 400 years
JUST TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF
he did that already
A single proton is much easier to send than a spaceship, which is a SPECIFIC ARRANGEMENT of protons.
A single proton would not undergo shear forces, disassembly, etc.
so they can put a supercomputer to some pocket dimension that is somehow connected to a proton, but they can't put their spaceships or even super nuclear weapons there to wipe out humanity?
They didn't put anything in a pocket dimension, the proton IS the computer.
But yeah, the fact that sophons can only affect the world at a quantum scale is actually a huge plothole since they literally can unfold themselves from different extra-dimensions and could in theory manipulate the macroscopic world. In reality (if any of this was possible) the world would be at their knees in no time.
Unfolded they can indeed interact with the macro world. But they still have the mass of a proton, which means they can exert virtually zero force on macro objects. They are also very fragile, in the sequel every country on earth points missiles at the sky just in case a Sophon is dumb enough to unfold around Earth.
why won't they just send 1 centillion thinking protons with supercomputers inside them to kill all humanity
They don’t care about what humanity does. Since they’ve locked down the entire subject of physics, nothing humans do can threaten them. It’s like leaving a bottle of raid next to a roach
do aliens win in these books? or does humanity win?
Bigger aliums win. Humans and cucksolarians get BTFO.
Humans lose but make sure the ayys lose too. Nobody wins if you make noise in the dark forest.
Humanity takes the aliens out with them by broadcasting the location of Trisolaris which also results in the solar system getting destroyed. The only Trisolarans who survive are their first and second invasion fleets who were in the solar system when Trisolaris is destroyed. The only humans who survive are the galactic humans who are descended from two ships that deserted earlier and setup colonies on Cygni. Also the chick that doomed us all is able to flee on the only FTL ship humanity has
both solar systems get obliterated, humanity already has a breakaway segment that escaped into the universe to colonize new worlds while the trisolarians split into two groups (the two fleets they send to earth to conquer it are the only ones left). The second fleet is far more aggressive and belligerent than the first and gets into a fight with the nearby super power pretty quickly and gets wiped out, the first fleet had already been travelling for centuries and is friendlier towards humanity because they have a human that lives with them that they like. They, like the humans that escaped, learnt from the dark forest and are more careful in hiding themselves and like the humans create a lasting multi-solar system civilization. It's sort of implied that the humans and trisolarians are fairy close to each other as spaceships from both reach a rendezvous point at about the same time, and the trisolarians did mention that they hoped to meet humanity again someday and have better relations this time because they feel a connection with humanity after everything they went through together. We know both civilizations survive so likely they were peaceful with each other if they did cross paths.
Were the Trisolarans ever mentioned again after they left the Solar System? I don't think humanity crosses paths with them again or am i mistaken?
yeah the main character and another guy live in a trisolarian pocket universe with sophon who tells her what happened
why don't the ayys just fricking take mars? they can do all this godlike shit and nobody, none of these hyperbrains talking to the ETs was just like "you know, mars is pretty earthlike, are you guys able to terraform anything?" come on
Because the earth is right there for the taking? wiping out humanity is easier than terraforming
>wiping out humanity is easier than terraforming
but it isn't, the aliens admit it isn't, that is the whole point of the sophons. they can't "directly" attack humans so they have to run psyops, because with 400 years to grind, humans will be stronger than the ayys. THEY said that. so just skip the fight and take mars?? frick, the 2400-era humans could probably set the planet up FOR them.
400 years of grinding is locked tho because of the sophons. so after 400 years of traveling once they arrive they can simply genocide all of us like cattle.
well yeah that's because we chose war. the alternate path would be for humans to be like "woah, alien neighbors. you guys want us to set up mars for you?" and for the trisolarans to be like "that would be great, when we arrive we'll try to help out and be good neighbors." or i would think.
trisolrans are OP
So the trisolarans will befriend a warlike species that can use deception? why the hell would they do that?
so that they lessen the chance of war with a warlike species that uses deception. we might end up in a cold war situation but humans v trisolarans on mars would certainly be a mutually assured destructive war, which humans seem happy to just keep going forever. just seems like intergalactic war should be something to be avoided is all.
Wiping out humanity in the first place means no war. Why the frick would they trade that with a cold war lmao
because the trisolarans whole point seems to be a worry that humans could pose a threat. if they are in such a precarious situation as only having their generation ships, why take an elevated risk that humans would somehow develop a teleporting bomb or some shit and send them to hell permanently?
taking the battlefield earth approach, i see
Teleporting bomb? Wtf are you talking about, technological progress for humanity is locked why would they worry about something like that?
>technological progress for humanity is locked
do the aliens succeed in this hard lock of tech progress via sophons for centuries at a time or are you assuming they do from the show?
I dont know what happens after the show, I didn’t read the books. We’re talking about Trisolarans plan to lock technological progress and it seems to be working, so why would they not just wipeout humanity which is like fighting an ant because of technological gap instead of your stupid idea of moving to mars and befriending humanity risking a future wars that might wipeout the trisolarans?
Just ignore the tampered results? Humanity knows there's only going to be so many sophons, so just overwhelm the frickers.
One Sophon can supposedly disable thousands of particle accelerators, and they're continually building and sending new ones.
>humans v trisolarans on mars would certainly be a mutually assured destructive war
Humans were already on pace to outrun their technology by the time they arrive. With access to their technology we would dominate, them they would exist only at the mercy of Earth. If we decided Mars needed a satellite dish to get better internet reception for asteroid belt colonists we could wipe out their race with a button press. The Trisolarans are looking for a home, not a prison cell.
They succeed to the point that a single unmanned unarmed probe can wipe out Earth civilization.
How can the ayys even conceive of the danger of deception if they can't conceive of deception in the first place?
Technically they don’t wipe humanity out when they win, they have everyone move to Australia, cut off the electricity and assimilate anyone who survives. Also, they hire millions of humans to work with them as sepoys [spoiler]
the whole pen everyone in australia thing is because humanity were talking about putting all the trisolarians on mars, which they found insulting.
You definitely haven't read the books. They try that later, it doesn't work.
Basically every alien species with any self preservation instinct will genocide any other species it comes across given half a chance rather than risk being genocided themselves
they do in the books and as it turns out the trisolarians find it pretty insulting...
well seeing as the only other options are: death, or, interplanetary war with super saiyan humans ca. 2424 i don't think they have a lot of room to complain. i haven't got that far in the book so there's definitely missing context.
how did they manage to build a super advanced civilization if their planet is destroyed every few thousand years
humans exist 300,000 years and we can't even colonize the moon
are humans morons of the universe?
modern man has existed for 10 000 years, and our technology has grown exponentially, did you not pay attention?
they were able to save a little bit from each destruction and rebuild slightly better each time, that was kind of hinted at in the game. eventually they did it long enough to rebuild to a point of building generation ships, got the clue from the chinese lady, and just launched shit towards earth. competitively humans have been a thing for about 100,000 years, modern humans for about 10,000, and within like 100 years we went from riding horses to slowly mastering the human genome and splitting the atom. we grow faster than they do, by a very wide margin. they just had more time overall.
cant wait for the memes in 10 years, if we grow exponentially, they will be wicked
it's ogre, the sophons have invented VR porn. humanity has halted, we're taking a break to look around the goon cave and smell the (virtual) asses.
don't know if you've read the books and i don't scare i will spoil everything anyway because the netflix version is trash and nobody should be watching it, but the trisolarians are plenty capable of having sudden fast tech leaps themselves and completely catch humanity off guard because of it.
>we grow faster than they do
this part im not buying, people arent special and every civilization which can develop planet sized supercomputer with an general AI can outpace our current research speed especially when they can spy on all our progress
Chaos era will halt trisolaran progress, meanwhile humanity will keep progressing because we’re always in a stable era.
>can outpace our current research speed especially when they can spy on all our progress
I agree, but they reached their current state VERY slowly through millions of years of accumulated knowledge due to the volatility of their planet. In comparison, humans advanced at a nearly exponential rate.
It's still funny that the only way to alert the rest of the galaxy/universe (anyone "near") that you're around is to aim a transmission of pretty weak terrestrial origin at a (your) star. Every race should have 'accidentally' done this, just through experimentation. It does speak to the paranoid/cynical nature of the writer that the all the universes sentient life is 100% out to murder each other on first contact. Just feels like there should only be one super race, but they'd have eternal issues of their own if they ever had ONE colony 'break away', they have to basically wipe themselves out and shove their head in the sand hoping like all frick that yet SOMEONE ELSE didn't notice you merk your own.
homosexual sapiens exists for almost 200000 years any meaningful progress we made was last 200 years, science works exponentially once you get to general AI like they did its literally over, computers will outpace us on any task, you can simulate millions of AI scientists working together improving themselves which leads to singularity a black box which even aliens themselves do not understand, even now our primitive specialized machine learning computers are better than average person at task they are designed to do.
So we can send radio waves at the speed of light, but we can't make cars do it? Nice "technology" we have
The faster something travels, the heavier it becomes, requiring even more greater levels of energy to push it. Not a difficult concept to understand. There's also the issue of deceleration.
Dark forest theory is as gay as believing earth is the center of the universe
It's based on a few big assumptions that aren't completely unreasonable but aren't watertight either.
I think it's better handled than all the dimension stuff.
It is absolutely unreasonable and every person that had a baby on their own, in their own hands, tosses "self preservation" down the window
The assumption is that a civilisation will do anything to keep itself alive, not the individual. Ye doesn't act in the best interest of humanity when she invites the aliens to come kill us but humanity as a whole fights back against that.
Even if you don't care about yourself as an individual, you want the best for your child and their children and so on.
>Ye doesn't act in the best interest of humanity
>this proves that there are people that won't follow dark forest theory
>The pacifist that sends the message back also shows there's people that won't follow the dark forest theory on the other side of the spectrum (helping other ayys)
>For dark forest theory to work, this people shouldn't exist, but they do
The theory is absolutely debunked within the confines of the fricking story that presents it
It's a stupid theory
It's an ok framework in-universe
But people now claiming that it has some validity, are fricking morons
I don't believe in a real Dark Forest either, but that is a flawed counter-argument. It's like saying capitalist theory is debunked because in fact some people do not care about personal profit. The Dark Forest theory doesn't state that every civilization (nevermind individual) is willing to sacrifice all morals and ideals for self-preservation, just that they eventually get wiped out by those that are.
>The Dark Forest theory doesn't state that every civilization is willing to sacrifice all morals and ideals for self-preservation
Yes it does
Otherwise, you are implying that there ARE civilization that will cooperate.
And if you have 4-5 civilizations that will cooperate, well, a trigger happy civilization that is advanced, and previously could have decided to nuke on 1v1, could fall in line, agree to join the Star Trek Federation and the whole theory falls apart once you have the romulans as well
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/the-dark-forest-hypothesis-is-absurd
The Forest is not so dark, we will likely be able to see mountains and oceans of far off worlds in the next 20 years or so. Other civilizations can do thes same.
>use nuclear explosions to accelerate spaceships
How come aliens speak perfect Chinese during first contact?
They don't. The Chinese send their message in some made-up language constructed using basic math formulas. The alien listening posts have computers that automatically analyze and breaks the code, and then translates back and forth.
They don't. The Netflix version literally skipped the whole creation of the universal language part.
But how did a single Trisolarian listener get to decode and create a message in apparently such a short time?
All that shit sounds moronic as frick. Did people really read these books and thought that they are so great that they need to create a tv show for this?
The books were pretty successful. I think the actual content of the books was secondary in their decision to make a tv series.
Why tripipo don arm dey space ship?
Why (book/TV) sophons didn't just block the Earth's sunlight for a month or so... They can wrap around the planet and modulate their transparency...
Because they are not invulnerable. In their unfolded form traditional weapons could destroy them.
Because manipulating the humans into causing 50% of their population to starve off in the hopes of building a fleet big enough to fight them only for the fleet to fail so you can send the remaining population to Australia to eat each other in a mass cannibalism event is funnier.
Anon,drugs are bad for you
Dumb ayys. Humanity can search around for an spare M class to inhabit, but these butthole idiots decide to invade causing everyone's destruction, whilst alerting who ever the frick that there's two species still out there that could rebuild.
just make a spaceship sized proton.
Why even tell mankind that they are coming and telling the whole world that aliens exist. They think they will co-exist with humans but rather than risk getting blown up on the way to Earth they might as well kill everyone on the planet using the sophons to leave a free habitable planet with no competition.
This leads to the daunting realisation that if another alien species existed in real life and they were coming for Earth we wouldn't even know they were coming and by the time we notice it is already too late. Stephen Hawkings was right about keeping quiet and not attracting the attention from other parts of the galaxy.
You'd have to ask the show writers. The sophons are way less talkative and powerful in the books.
Didn't they frick up the triangulation? There'd be no other reason to make her reply otherwise.
Actually I just remembered that the lack of progress in material science causes humanity to hit a hard limit in processing speed, which would hinder major progress in simulations and machine learning.
meant for
Our current cpus are capable enough to create an AGI. The current super computers have enough processing power to stimulate tens of thousands of human brains. A self learning AI would be capable of creating all kinds of new proccessors.
Ai is already being used for physics simulations and making new discoveries. It's able to chew through millions of simulations and find possible models to explain certain physical phenomenon. Creating AGI is the next step in human evolution. They should be targeting AI development a lot more than particle colliders.
Just to add, people are all over the place on brain processing power. I've read that super computers have more processing power than thousands of brains and I've also read the complete opposite. I tend to believe that computers are faster since they aren't limited by chemical reactions.
I think humans will create life from chemistry in a lab before they will create a true AGI, Still haven't done it so far, why not? Surely creating reproductive life is simpler than creating the mind of the most complex physical thing we know of in the universe?
We are destroying our planet with man made emissions causing global warming. We should be pointing lasers, sending messages at neighbouring stars for other advanced civilisations to save us from damnation.
if you do, wouldn't the message you get back be a simple one?
>you do not need our help, you already have everything you need to save yourselves
Do the sophomore also disable advancements in AI? Creating a super intelligence of our own seems more useful than fricking around with particle colliders. An AI can just run simulations of particle physics by creating millions of possible of models and deduce from there.
>sophomores
Sophons
I really need to read what I wrote because my stupid phone turns made up words into real ones.
I haven't watched much of the show yet so I don't know frick all about anything.
I don't think it's specified, but they do collaborate with the human traitors to sabotage human progress outside of particle physics. For example they promote radical environmental and conservationist causes in the hopes of slowing down industrial output.
Uhhh... /3body/chads?
>le reactionary whiney Youtube critic
I don't like the show but enough of this garbage
This guy sounds literally moronic. Like an AI voice. He puts emphasis on all the wrong words and his cadence is just off putting. He can barely talk.
Maybe stick to Jack Reacher type of shows when you clearly cant understand basic physics of objects without mass and objects with mass
I don’t know why anyone is surprised about the show being not that great considering the books weren’t very well written in the first place.
They had very cool individual ideas but the actual writing and prose was god awful.
That doesn't excuse the show of being several orders of magnitude worse than the book by completely removing the suspense and the atmosphere, dumbing down the science and adding quippy dialogue.