Someone from Lucasfilm should have stepped up and told them this was stupid and out of character.
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Someone from Lucasfilm should have stepped up and told them this was stupid and out of character.
He nearly did the same to his own dad thoughbeit
>He nearly did the same to his own dad thoughbeit
Exactly, and Yoda flat out says "You are always looking into the horizon instead of what is in front of you" which is consistent with OT Luke. Luke was the best part of the sequel trilogy.
>LEARNING NOTHING GOOD
>CHARACTER BUILDING BAD
The key difference is that Luke was much more eager and willing to accept and forgive another's moral failures (his father's) instead of ones of his own making. Ben was his personal failure, and was unable to come to terms with that.
Weak ex-post-facto rationalization for an out of character depiction.
>eager and willing to accept and forgive another's moral failures
Kek is that why he tried to kill Ben? Ben didn't even do anything before Luke tried to kill him. moronic.
> Kek is that why he tried to kill Ben?
He didn’t try to kill him. Did you even pay attention?
>if I overcome a weakness once, that means I'm cured and can never ever fall back into old patterns
You're in for a few really harsh realizations when you grow up, child.
Why would I want to watch a space fantasy movie about that happening to one of my favorite characters?
Why would you want to watch something where your favourite character does not face any challenges?
He can face challenges without completely failing at them and not assassinating his character lmao
>without completely failing at them
You do realize that he learned from his failure and grew, right? TLJ ultimately was a triumph for Luke.
homosexual.
So you didn't realize. Okay, anon.
I didn't realise you were a homosexual until I read that post, no. I do now.
Sure, anon, sure. You should take more time to try and realize things about the films you're watching. It would keep you from shitting your pants over them not giving you exactly what you wanted.
I'm not even the guy you were arguing with btw. You're just a homosexual with moronic opinions.
Okay, anon. Do you need some valerian tea? You seem a bit agitated.
>valerian tea
you really are a homosexual.
>I have to kill my father he's a space nazi
>I have to kill this child who hasn't done anything wrong because I foresaw evil in his future
these are not even remotely the same
Ummmm actually they are and you are stupid
I win
There was no best anything from the sequel trilogy.
>thoughbeit
Get back in the poolag of the United troony Socialist Thoughbeit Republic, homosexual.
Yes and he learned and grew from that situation.
what the frick? what he did with his dad was nearly the complete opposite of this
his dad was already the evil warlord of the galaxy and he still spared his life when he had the opportunity to kill him, because he "saw the goodness in his soul" or something
this sequel trilogy scene is a total inversion of the character, he saw darkness in a heretofore innocent adam driver's soul and considered pre-emptively killing him
yeah sure he ended up not going through with it but like morally these two things are not at all the same
He ignited his lightsaber in reflex to sensing abominable darkness in powerful wizard child and then immediately turned it off ashamed of himself. Kylo sperged out.
That was after his dad had murdered millions of people. And he still held back thoughever.
He didn't try to murder his dad after one vision showed him he would be evil in the future.
>And he still held back thoughever.
He didn't hold back. He just stopped hacking down on him after half a minute of assaulting him.
Had he done the same thing for Kylo, he'd actually have killed him.
Everyone at Lucasfilm at the time hated Luke, they don't care if it's out of character or not. His legacy had to be erased.
>a giant mural of Padme in the background
Is this real?
Yes.
13 seconds in she walks past the poster of Luke crossed out.
That the people in charge of creating Star Wars stories hang that up in their office of says all you need to know about the stories they're going to write.
We had a homosexual claiming to have been one of the main writers behind the 7-9 episodes make a thread. People dismissed him but then shortly after some actors from the sequels revealed the exact same ideas, something about some claims in the contract finally allowed them to talk or something.
>one of the main writers behind the 7-9 episodes
There was no team of writers, moron.
There were Arndt, then Abrams and Kasdan for 7.
There was only Jognson for 8.
There was Trevorrow, then Abrams and Terrio for 9.
The only "team" was the story group, and they didn't do any writing on the sequels. They apparently weren't even consulted for 7 and 9, because Abrams didn't give a shit about continuity (funnily enough, it's Johnson whom the fanboys accuse of breaking continuity, despite him making it a priority not to).
There also was not a single writer who was involved in all three episodes' screenplays. The most you get is Abrams with two of them.
I have literally read none of your long and low IQ posts itt.
You're wrong about everything either way.
You sound quite triggered.
>Heres your manbaby hero, King of the Manbabies, drinking milk from his ba-ba.
That was a memetic crucifixion not a movie.
Women destroy everything
What's weird is that many of my friends love Star Wars but hate Obiwan and Luke and desperately wanted Star Wars sequelswithout any Jedis or the Force in it. What I don't umderstand is why they're not just Buck Rogers or Battlestar Galactica geeks instead. These dudes grew up liking SW just like I did, bit apparently instead of wanting to be heroes with a special destiny and magic powers they were fantasizing about being regular dudes but in space. I don't get it.
The duality of the bug man, must love sci-fi fantasy for babies but also must love science and materialism
rich stuff, judging that it's coming from a literal bugman
Andi a hottie in her own way. She's the main reason (OK, main 2 reasons lol) that I watched Rebels Recon.
They really had no idea Rian was in an absolute warpath to destroy Star Wars
It's impressive really. He took their money and shit all over everything and everyone and no one stopped him.
Easily the most based director. I can't think of a more Chad thing to do than INTENTIONALLY going out of your way to piss of moronic manbaby Star Wars fans. He took a giant shit in the mouth of all the fanboys while grinning ear to ear. I respect him deeply.
>INTENTIONALLY
Frankly, I doubt he could have predicted how fricking moronic they'd be. He certainly knew that going meta on their franchise and fandom would be somewhat divisive, but not that entire youtubers would be able to build entire careers on lorehomosexualry rage alone.
>Rian Johnson created dozens if not hundreds of jobs for basement losers
B-based...?
you will never be a woman, discord troony
I can't believe they let that Funko Pop shaped motherfricker do this to one of the most beloved characters in modern cinema. Did he have no oversight whatsoever?
The Force is Female™ Chudwalker
>Getting angry makes you sperg out and be unreasonable
>Staying calm makes you pretentious and unreasonable
Yes, the force is female.
luke being a jaded old man who was sick of everything is the only part of these movies that works.
>fans grow up with og trilogy then get spat in the face with the prequals
>fans grow up with both and love it all then get spat in the face with the sequels
Luke was so fricking cool, he was so established in the lore as such a favorited character. playing shit like Jedi academy and fighting with him side by side was the best star wars shit ever
them taking all that away and making him a pathetic hermit so that rey could be the only real powerful star was fricking moronic and frick any dumbshit who supports it. they literally were wearing "THE FORCE IS FEMALE" shirts.
They ruined his character on purpose. it's all connected and you don't need to be insane to see it
Anyone who tries to argue that luke doing that was in line with his character in anyway can't be reasoned with. It's clearly so fricking opposite to what Luke had been through already and learned in ROTJ.
>Luke was so fricking cool
Boyscouts are never cool.
Luke being almost innocent in how moral and lighthearted he was is one of the reasons why he was so powerful, and why Sidious was so afraid of him.
Luke didn't have the baggage and emotional problems Anakin had. he didn't see himself as this amazing powerful guy. he was pure and this allowed him to be completely focused. Vader killed his only family left and cut off his hand and Luke still stood up to him with a calm demeanor and told him to let go of his hate.
Mark Hamill being a bit of a fruit irl helps this portrayal imo. Luke isn't too dominant, but he isn't submissive either. he is calm, focused and unattached. He embodied compassion and this is what turned Vader back and what defeated the emperor in the end. Luke was the perfect Jedi and Lucas said he did eventually surpass even Anakin in his prime.
Disney shit ruined all of that and my butt hurts because of it.
>Luke being almost innocent in how moral and lighthearted he was is one of the reasons why he was so powerful, and why Sidious was so afraid of him.
Luke was anything really all that pure. That's what TESB is about, at its core.
I'm not sure if I know what you mean. luke wasn't perfect and was still tempted at the end but he had a pureness about him that was the reason he never would have turned and it was why Sidious first wanted to just kill him. He foresaw luke btfo'ing them all.
Luke first denying Vaders offer to join him was him proving it. Vader joined Sidious to save someone he loved and to get power so when Luke was willing to die and give it all up before joining him, it was proof to Vader that he fricked up.
>but he had a pureness about him that was the reason he never would have turned
But he easily could have. Again: That's what TESB is about. Luke is rash, overly emotional, too focussed on the smaller picture (particularly when his friends are in danger) and he tends to overreact. He lacks serenity and control. The one way that he is "pure" is his naivete.
Yoda warns him against going to Bespin for a reason, and he doesn't listen. The whole cave scene on Dagobah is about how Luke has the potential to turn dark. And even after deciding that he wants to redeem Vader, he completely gives in to his rage and nearly kills him after Leia gets threatened. Only stopping himself at the last second because A) Vader's stump reminding him of how he lost his own hand and B) Palpatine's gloating both pull him out of his mindless rage. That's not a "pure" character. That's a very flawed, very emotionally unstable, very emotionally driven character.
And yet the Thrawn Trilogy that EU nerds love so much makes him into a gullible dumbass.
>But he easily could have
It required perfect set and setting at the end of ROTJ and his father being involved in order for him to even be tempted to turn and he still didn't. He was on the brink of death in the TESB and was alone and stil didn't.
He was naive, overly emotional and rash in the first two, yeah, and went through character development. That doesn't take away at all what I am saying.
What I am talking about when I say pure isn't a character trait of being perfect in anyway beyond having a core underneath it all of good nature and he proved that. He had a trait of being solid undeath all that and it's why he prevailed. In spite of everything Luke never caved and that was because of that core. No one else was forcing him to deny Vader and the dark side.
Luke was never going to cave despite being tempted at the end of ROTJ and that's why Sidious finally decided to kill him. Luke literally said "I'll never turn" after beating Vader down and finally becoming a Jedi.
When I am describing him as being that perfect jedi I am talking about after the events of ROTJ and that's what Disney shat on.
>It required perfect set and setting at the end of ROTJ and his father being involved in order for him to even be tempted to turn
No. It required his sister being threatened. If anything, that his father was involved is what kept him from turning to the dark side. He was very willing to strike down Palpatine at first. And had some random imperial mook (that he didn't come to save or saw himself in) threatened Leia, then that's it.
>and went through character development.
Not really, no. He's still rash and overly emotional in ROTJ. Hence why he has that fit of rage where he almost kills Vader. And not just in a fleeting moment like in TLJ. No, over half a minute of hitting someone who's down.
>beyond having a core underneath it all of good nature
But he still has that same good natured core in TLJ. He's just not as hopeful anymore.
>I am talking about after the events of ROTJ
So, basically the fanfiction-tier EU shit that turned him into a non-character?
Luke being on the death star with his father and Palpatine and all the shit that was happening was the perfect set and setting I was talking about. Him striking down Palpatine wouldn't have turned him I don't think and Palpatine wouldn't have allowed himself to be struck if Vader wasn't there anyway lol no way.
Luke 100% did go through a lot of development once ROTJ came along. He was total monk mode compared to how he was at the end of TESB. He was much different. I think you're being confrontation and argumentative on purpose now. I'm sorry if anything I said bothered you lol
>But he still has that same good natured core in TLJ. He's just not as hopeful anymore.
I don't agree. I think him almost killing kylo and a few others scenes contradict what I talk about when talking about that core and it's one of the reasons I hate what they did with him
>So, basically the fanfiction-tier EU shit that turned him into a non-character?
You apparently don't even like legends luke to begin with so I have no fricking idea what you give a shit anyway.
I don't think you care about anything I'm saying.
>Him striking down Palpatine wouldn't have turned him I don't think
Killing in rage would have. And that's how he would have struck Palpatine down.
>Palpatine wouldn't have allowed himself to be struck if Vader wasn't there
True.
>Luke 100% did go through a lot of development once ROTJ came along. He was total monk mode compared to how he was at the end of TESB.
The first thing we see of Luke in ROTJ is him rushing into a dangerous situation to safe Han. Granted, with more of a plan this time around, but, no, he was not in "monk mode". He was still fairly reckless.
>him almost killing kylo and a few others scenes
He doesn't come anywhere near as close to killing Kylo as he was to killing Vader.
>I hate what they did with him
You mean taking his flaws from the original trilogy and running with them?
>You apparently don't even like legends luke to begin with
Why would I? They fundamentally didn't understand the character and turned him into a flawless idolized version from fanboys' wet dreams.
>so I have no fricking idea what you give a shit anyway.
You do realize I could easily turn this logic around on you: "You don't like TLJ's Luke to begin with, so why do you give a shit about it anyway?"
That was his low point, him being as much like his father as he was ever going to be. By his final confrontation with Vader, he’s already surpassed him, become the Jedi his father never was.
>By his final confrontation with Vader, he’s already surpassed him, become the Jedi his father never was.
Ah, yes, become the jedi that would have a fit of rage and only in the very last moment stop himself from killing. I see.
>this was stupid and out of character
It was actually very much in character.
Also, Johnson's Luke was taken right out of the George Lucas treatments. Why would they overrule Lucas?
The Rashomon thing felt goofy and out of place to me, especially how over-the-top Luke is in Kylo's telling. Luke instinctively igniting his lightsaber because he was spooked by Kylo is whatever but that being the final straw just makes Kylo and Luke both look stupid.
so the joke is that someone posts the flashback from Kylo's point of view and claims that it was what actually happened?
Not a joke. People who post this have either not seen the film, seen it but not paid attention, or seen it and actually thought that Kylo's version was the absolute and unmistaken truth.
Either way, they're parrotting Mauler and/or Reddit when they make that argument, down to using this exact screencap, and don't think much about it.
>People who post this have either not seen the film
I’m proud of the fact I will never watch these fricking abortions. I got kicked out of the theater 5 minutes in when he crank called that dude and I throw my soda at the screen
They also completely reversed Han's arc. He went from swindler to general and they demoted him back to swindler because ???????????
>He went from swindler to general
That was always stupid.
To be fair, the rebels didn't exactly have many people to choose from for a promotion. And relatively flat hierarchies to begin with, so ranks don't matter all that much.
Han becoming a "general" wasn't character development, it was more of a nod to the importance of the character for the story.
Lucas did the same thing again in episode 1 with Jar Jar Binks.
Plus he earns that rank after serving the Rebellion for years then accepting to lead a suicide mission.
>Han becoming a "general" wasn't character development
It absolutely was. Han returning to save Luke at the end of A New Hope was a distinct change in the character that carried through the full OT.
>Han returning to save Luke at the end of A New Hope
Has nothing to do with him becoming a general two films later. Brainlet.
You are an actual moron
It has everything to do with it. Han changed. ESB had his history catching up with him, and RotJ giving him a military rank for a dangerous ground assault mission was proof that he was a changed man.
Apparently, the only character that was allowed to grow from their lowest moment in the series was Leia.
>RotJ giving him a military rank for a dangerous ground assault mission was proof that he was a changed man.
It really was not. And he was not. He was still a scoundrel who cared for his friends. That's why he was in it, not for the greater cause.
>He was still a scoundrel who cared for his friends. That's why he was in it, not for the greater cause.
His friends weren't even GOING to Endor when he signed up for it.
>His friends weren't even GOING to Endor when he signed up for it.
No, they just needed someone to go there.
What is this post even supposed to mean? Did a bot make it?
They needed someone to go to Endor to shut the shields down. He volunteered not because he's a massive fan of ground missions or because he wanted to stick it to the Empire, he volunteered because Leia, Luke and everyone else there were against the Empire and needed the plan to succeed.
So he volunteered for a dangerous ground assault that didn't involved his friends... only for his friends?
You're a fricking idiot.
Yes. He volunteered for something his friends needed done properly, that he thought he could do proberly. When your best friend is sick in bed and you go buy medicine for him, him not coming with you doesn't mean you're not doing it for him.
>When your best friend is in bed
You go on a ground assault suicide mission to Afghanistan for him. Got it. You fricking dumbass.
>You go on a ground assault suicide mission to Afghanistan for him.
Well, depending on who your friend is and why he needs it done, yeah, some people would do that.
Also ... "suicide mission" is a bit of an overstatement.
>ESB had his history catching up with hi
The 3 years thing makes Han look moronic for not paying Jabba back that whole time.
This wasn't that big of a deal because no one wanted to see Han as a boring politician. So seeing him as a fun smuggler going on adventures with Chewie was an alright send off for his character.
Hardly perfect but acceptable.
Seeing Luke as a depressed nomad who had tried to murder his nephew and now would happily slurp on alien boobjuice while his friends all died wasn't just a lack of proper character development, it was character assassination 101. Having him then literally die alone on a barren rock by thinking too hard and accomplishing nothing except causing a dumb distraction is just salt in the wound.
>because ???????????
Because FRICK YOU that's why!
t.~~*Disney*~~
Except this never happened. This frame is a lie told by Kylo to Rey.
Next time try watching the movie before criticizing it.
Okay smart people what actually happened then? I only watched TFA
now use the correct frame
I'm pretty sure mark did
Man, the prequels aren't bad stories, they're just..... misguided. All they needed was a bit of tweaking. The bones are all there.
>the prequels aren't bad stories
On an idea level? No.
But they really aren't told well. The balance is all off (way too much focus on politics in all the wrong moments), the characters never act in an organic way (the fricking romance plotline sticks out like a sore thumb), too much focus on plot/lore over themes (midichlorians, trade disputes, pod racing), dumb slapstick humour (Jar Jar, even R2 at times), too much spectacle (dances with lightsabers rather than fights, CGI Yoda, etc.), and overall way too fanservicey (why does Anakin need to build 3PO?).
Fanedits have proven that the story and characters are fine, but needed more time in the editing room. Hal9000's edits are basically the same movies, but polished up. Literally remove the crap, some trims to fix the pacing, add the plot-important deleted scenes in and you have legit good movies.
>add the plot-important deleted scenes
Which ones are those?
For Episode II
>Padme addressing the Senate
>Anakin meeting Padme's parents.
>Padme telling Anakin that she thought she'd be a wife and a mother at this point in her life, explaining why the two got married as quick as they did.
>Obi-Wan expressing his concerns to Mace about Anakin guarding Padme, and Mace telling him to have faith that Anakin would do the right thing.
>Padme and Anakin meeting with Dooku on Geonosis.
For Episode III
>Entire subplot where Padme, along with Bail Organa and Mon Mothma, start the Rebel Alliance.
>Qui-Gon tells Yoda to go to Dagobah
Not sure how these scenes wouldn't make the pacing worse or overcrowd the films even more, but, hey, maybe the editor made up for that with what he cut out.
>maybe the editor made up for that with what he cut out.
He did. About 25 min were cut from each movie. The total running time for each are around 110.
The Chosen One stuff is contrived horseshit, too.
the prequels are bad but they still feel like star wars
they are better than the sequels, which are otherwise more competently made, in that regard
>they still feel like star wars
That's because they're what you grew up with as Star Wars.
They feel nothing like the OT. And to be fair, they don't have to. It's not important how something feels.
i saw the prequels years after i saw the original trilogy (well the special editions they rereleased in theaters)
How old were you when the prequels came out, anon?
Children don't close themselves off as easily to new experiences. If you saw the prequels when you were still prepubescent, or even a young teen, that's enough to count as growing up with them, even if you saw the OT before that.
I was 17 when ROTS came out. I saw the other two at a friend's house shortly before that.
I saw the OT as a kid but I wasn't into them as much. I was more interested in watching DS9.
>I was 17 when ROTS came out.
Okay, that's a bit too old to be easy to imprint norms on. Strange that you waited so long between seeing the OT and the prequels, but a lack of interest is a lack of interest.
I fell asleep watching one of them in the theater (I don't remember which one). I didn't appreciate SW until I was in my 20s
TPM, to me, feels a bit like the OT.
I was reading the visual dictionaries for nostalgia's sake the other day and I noticed even those have a better written plot than the fricking movies. like, theres some blurb about how anakin is hailed as a hero in the core worlds and every time he arrives back at coruscant theres crowds of cheering people and hes recognized wherever he goes and even used in promotional ads as a 'poster boy' for the republic....all of those things I think would have illustrated anakin as a bit more charismatic and loved by the people while also showing how it kinda went to his head and made him wienery, while also providing a divider in his mind between the physical outter world and the jedi inner world. instead hes just kinda an butthole starting from clones. they needed 1 or 2 scenes of him arguing with obi-wan to show tension, not like 10. I think thats really one of the biggest problems of the prequels, that anakin doesnt really feel charismatic enough for you to care that he gets corrupted into darth vader. compare to warcraft 3's arthas plotline for the direction it shoulda gone in
These issues were greatly extrapolated in the clone wars series which ironically had better plots and character development than the 3 prequel movies
For Christ sake, even the Cartoon Network genji series established in great detail how the chancellor would be “kidnapped”, but they retconned the entire series as noncanon! The series literally bridges the divide between the two movies and established plot and previously documented character development they lead off from the start in RoTS
>compare to warcraft 3's arthas plotline for the direction it shoulda gone in
No. Enough is enough. I’m not playing a fricking warcraft game to better “understand” the failings of a star wars movie. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars. I don’t care about Star Wars.
they should have had snoke just manipulate ben swolo
>anons in the thread seriously think they were trying to do a Rashomon thing with this
Rian did not think that deeply about this.
You do realize that Johnson himself said he was doing a Rashomon hommage, right?
And that he also imitated Kurosawa's visual style later on (not very subtly) to bring the whole "Hidden Fortress inspired Star Wars" thing full circle?
He knew exactly what he was doing. He understands Star Wars, as films, way better than you fanboys who just think Star Wars is a collection of empty lore.
>He understands Star Wars, as films, way better than you fanboys
Ever notice that, in all of George Lucas' Star Wars, not a single one of the films had a flashback? Because he believed in straightforward storytelling, treating his films as documentaries of another world. TLJ not only showing flashbacks, but actively lying to the viewer in two of those flashbacks, is a fundamental misunderstanding of Star Wars.
>in all of George Lucas' Star Wars, not a single one of the films had a flashback?
Yeah. He only had flashforwards, namely in episode 3. Because he didn't beleive in straightforward storytelling all that much afterall.
It was a vision of the future, it had an actual purpose, and it never once lied to the viewer. Do you also think there was a literal Darth Vader in the cave on Dagobah? These moments showed what the Skywalker boys saw in their visions, and weren't some twisted version of a recollection.
>It was a vision of the future, it had an actual purpose, and it never once lied to the viewer.
Actually, it very much "lied" to the viewer, just like it lied to the character who had that vision. Either way, it's not linear ("straightforward") storytelling, which you claim Lucas was so committed to. There is not much difference between a flashback and a flashforward, on a storytelling level, you know ...
You clearly don’t get the message if the vision.
Speedwatching much? He didn't just have that vision naturally. Another character caused it, specifically to trick the character and the audience.
>It used clips from the end of the film when Padme dies.
>Again, it's not a flashforward, it was a vision.
Nice contradiction there. Also, same things, storytelling-wise.
>He didn't just have that vision naturally. Another character caused it, specifically to trick the character and the audience.
First of all, wrong. Palpatine didn't cause the visions, he simply knew about the visions because Anakin told him about what happened with his mother in AotC, and was able to manipulate him based on that. Second, both Anakin and the audience were not lied to because what we/he saw is literally what happens.
>Nice contradiction there. Also, same things, storytelling-wise.
No, again, because what we see is literal. The visions are diegetic to the film, whereas the flashbacks in TLJ are not.
>Palpatine didn't cause the visions
Right. Palpatine never caused anything. He just sat there and hoped everything he needed would fall into his lap randomly, and then it did!
>both Anakin and the audience were not lied to because what we/he saw is literally what happens.
Lies by omission are a thing. What he saw only happened because he acted on it.
>what we see is literal.
>The visions are diegetic to the film
If what a character sees is diegetic, then a flashback to what a character experienced (from his point of view) also is.
I was talking about the Dagobah vision, dumbass.
Anakin had a Dagobah vision? What was that about?
Here, dipshit.
. Da-go-bah. Having a vision in the story’s present tense is still linear storytelling, and the message was readily apparent to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
>Da-go-bah.
>Did you also think that ...
Yeah, brainlet. The discussion was about Anakin. You bringing up a (false) analogue doesn't mean your opponent has to then segway into that particular irrelevant talking point of yours rather than staying on topic. Deal with it.
I’m not even the guy who first mentioned, but frick it. Even in Anakin’s visions the point stands - having a vision or a premonition is still linear storytelling regardless of the source of the vision.
How did Anakin's vision lie to the viewer and Anakin? It used clips from the end of the film when Padme dies. Anakin doesn't know what causes her death and wants to save her.
>Either way, it's not linear ("straightforward") storytelling, which you claim Lucas was so committed to.
Again, it's not a flashforward, it was a vision. It was literally what Anakin was seeing in that point in time, and in my view is no different than Luke's vision in the cave in ESB.
>Lying to the audience
oh my god you guys are such fricking babies. Goo goo ga ga full diaper losers. Kylo Ren is the villain.
Well he did a shit job of it.
>he did a shit job
Elaborate. What would you do differently to achieve the desired effect?
For starters, you have to show a significant difference in perspective and motivation. In both recollections were given, Luke’s motivation remains the same. He reacts to a vision we’re never shown. Remember when he went into the tree on Dagobah and reacted to a phantom of Vader? This scene needed something similar, something to make it clear that Ben’s view lacked crucial information. As it stands, it didn’t. Luke walked in there and ignited his saber for precisely the reason Ben thought he did, and even worse, Luke was right to do it. That’s not just a failure to understand Luke’s character, it a failure to capture the essence of Rashomon. The essence of a Rashomon homage is knowing that no side is seeing the whole picture.
Telling how none of the shills responded to this.
Yeah, people tend to not respond to nonsense. Sorry.
>He understands Star Wars, as films, way better than you fanboys
nobody with a functioning brain types this way. go back.
This is b8
The problem is that in all flashbacks, Luke is still a depressed moron who tried to murder his nephew based on a bad dream. No one gives a crap what it was an homage to if it's just shit.
>Luke is still a depressed moron who tried to murder his nephew based on a bad dream
You're fricking moronic.
Excellent refutation.
It was pretty obviously deliberate. Same for the Wings shot. I don't think it works very well because Kylo's perspective is so cartoonish.
>this evil gilf secretary is about to ruin your life's legacy
>he thinks they didn't do it on purpose
Cute.
Disney can't get lightsabers right
Mark did
Mark is such an annoying homosexual but I feel his frustration with Disney Star Wars. He loves being Luke and they ruined it
they have to create le controversy for le redemption story
Damn it's almost like that was the point of the scene
Are y'all actually defending this fricking movie?
Just one pseud who's so moronic he probably is Rian Johnson.
You know these trips don't lie
We all know that Johnson sticks to /film/ threads.
You're not fooling anyone. He's exactly the type of troll to do this kind of shit to defend his movie.
>trips
Based Rian. Best way to deal with whiny fanboys, frankly.
They don't even understand the films they'Re supposedly fans of.
KYLO WHERE'S THE MILK???
I don't care how shit the movie was, that shot does look kinda cool.
>your growth as a person stops at 20 years old
>Luke, as an older man with the weight of both the galaxy and his religious order on his shoulders, and knowing the dark side is capable of killing millions, would have the exact same reaction to a problem as the 20-something freedom fighter Luke with nothing to lose
The sequels largely fricking sucked but the people shitting their pants about Luke have just turned him into a replacement Christ figure for their Funko Pop religion.
>>your growth as a person stops at 20 years old
Well if this film is to be believed, yes, but also that growth somehow reverted backwards from ROTJ at that. Not only did Rian write him so badly it looks like he stopped, he wrote him so badly it looks like he somehow reversed time just for this incredibly badly done plotpoint for a worse version of a character who already had a better one that had him grow in the books they chucked out.
>would have the exact same reaction
This is where you idiots really frick up, because ROTJ actually confronted this exact bad character writing, and showed exactly why it wouldn't work.
It wasn't just that Luke got pissed and went ham on Vader but then learned and grew from it, that would've been bad enough, but that movie also proved definitively to Luke exactly how to deal with a family member afflicted by the dark side. He is literally the only human being in the entire expanded universe who has seen and personally tried multiple ways to bring said family member back to the light, and exactly one way actually worked, reaching out to them, showing compassion, and helping them. He knows all other methods failed, he tried a few of them himself.
So then, does TLJ bother to show he tried this surefire method, and it failed? Maybe a line of dialogue? I mean it's already overly bloated with time that could be shed, surely there's time in one of the numerous flashbacks, or just a single line of dialogue? No. Because the writing isn't subversive, it's just bad. It wants to copy paste a shit ton of beats and scenes from ESB and ROTJ, but also hopes you don't remember anything about them because if you do, this Luke is just a plain old no fuss no muss badly written character. That's it. It's bad writing to force him into the Yoda role so they can copy paste and stretch out the Yoda scenes from ESB.
Nothing more nothing less, a shit character written by a shit writer who couldn't compare to the good movie he was copying.
>but also that growth somehow reverted backwards from ROTJ at that
You're not particularly bright, are you?
>Learn something that works
>Roll backwards to forget it because if you remember it works, the bad writing breaks down
Maybe you can take after Rian and just pretend it didn't happen so not to inconvenience your stupidity.
Yeah, you're a moron.
Well, I'm sold. Maybe next time you can go "Nuh uh, cause I said so!", and hopefully nobody remembers that very obvious thing that worked on you.
Keep at it and maybe someday you too can have a world record for second week drops and world record for sequel drops.
NTA but you're definitely the moron
You're an idiot.
>130 posts
>not one person posts the ACTUAL scene of what happened instead of le evil face Kylo's bullshit version that all the parrots (aka Reddit Letter Media fans) always post
Why would I ever want to see anything from the ST ever again?
99% of Sequel discussions are like those itt. People either have gold fish attention spans or they talk about shit they never even saw.
Everyone's specifically talking about how badly written and contradictory the "True" events of the story are, stop jacking yourself off to pretend everyone just doesn't "Get it".
It makes no sense for the "Real" events to happen and only works if you ignore the fact Luke is the only person in the entire universe who knows exactly why going the opposite direction from what was depicted would work. If he was worried about Ben going to the dark side, he knows from experience even thinking about killing him doesn't work, actually trying to kill him probably won't work, thinking he's "Lost" doesn't work, but going the other way works. Everyone else tried every other venue with Vader, and it didn't work. He cracked the code on how to fix it.
But, of course, this is a badly written movie made for idiots who don't understand basic plot progression and managed to even be unappealing to regular people who wouldn't care about that, so of course they just chucked that out so they could badly recreate scenes from better movies and stretch out 30 second scenes to 10 minutes to seem more deep in it's failed attempt to be put on the same level. A stupid plot made by an idiot, they deserve that drop.
this is still just a whole lotta words summed up by "Luke thought about doing a bad thing and that hurt my feelings"
Well someone's feelings are certainly hurt. Need another 15 minutes or so to figure out how directly contradicting a straightforward character progression still totally works and is smart, really?
>"I'm not an idiot who likes a bad movie, I just can't figure out how you're wrong yet!"
>Luke resisted temptation once at age 25
>that means he conquered temptation as a concept and would never ever think about doing bad things ever again
That's right, you want Luke to be an epic action figure who only exists to be epically badass and right all the time, not a human being
>>Luke resisted temptation once at age 25
You keep running back to this like a security blanket and I hate to tell you, it's see through.
It's not just that he figured out the resist temptation thing, it's that in doing so he figured out how to deal with that whole "Family member tempted by the darkside" thing. I get it, you like TLJ so following a straight line is a challenge, but work with me here.
>Luke figures out through his own actions, Obi-Wans actions, and Yoda's actions, what does not work.
>He figures out through his actions what does work
>TLJ, because it is badly written, does not at any point even so much as imply doing it's overly bloated and padded runtime he tried this thing that worked.
Not expecting it to click, but hey, can't hurt trying the thing that worked instead of just redoing the thing you know doesn't in order to redo stuff that already happened, but worse, right?
Again
>why wasn't Luke epically awesome who did the right thing at all times? Why didn't he immediately emotionally remove himself from the situation and make the right decision immediately? We all know how he immediately turned Vader with no strife or conflict, he NEVER lost his temper
Oh hey look, it's that scene where he figured out even beating him in combat and threatening his life didn't help with the whole Darkside thing. You know, the scene immediately before he figures out the thing that works and brings his father back to the light side?
What a good lesson he learned and would've carried over to the next movie if it wasn't terribly written and needing to chuck out this essential part of the narrative in order to force Luke into a role where he could repeat story beats and scenes from a better movie.
>Why didn't he immediately emotionally remove himself from the situation and make the right decision immediately?
What's extra funny about you spouting this is you don't even realize the exact opposite is what he should've done because he figured out that worked. He knows it worked.
>We all know how he immediately turned Vader with no strife or conflict
You just keep showing the exact reason why TLJ is so badly written. You're showing the exact scene where, just as basic progression, it doesn't make any sense. Narrative wise, character wise, shit just on the level of a guy who stuck his hand in a fire and then decided not to do it again. Sadly though, this basic progression would've stopped repeating the same scenes from better movies.
But, alas, in order to be a fan of TLJ you have to be a very specific level of stupid.
>What a good lesson he learned and would've carried over to the next movie
You do not understand how human beings work.
Yes, as we all know when we figure out some major life changing piece of information that is one of the most transformative parts of our lives, we immediately forget it during similar times. As everyone knows if you learn major information about a substantial figure in your life you just kinda forget it and do the thing that didn't work next time it comes around.
That's how humans work, according to the only people dumb enough to like TLJ,
I mean it's JUST the first recorded instance of someone coming back from the darkside in their history according to their dialogue, it's really easy to see why Luke would forget that thing that worked and instead just roll back to being dumb as Rian is just to facilitate a bad redo of ESB and ROTJ.
>we immediately forget it during similar times.
Dishonesty or moronation, anon?
You do realize that Luke igniting his saber was describes as pure instinct in TLJ, correct?
And that the moment Luke started thinking about it, he regretted his instinct.
Now, we've already established that you do not understand how human beings work. But can you possibly entertain the thought that instincts are not informed by factual information you might or might not have learned at an earlier point in your life?
Or are you going to argue that, since TLJ is "badly written", you can just ignore how the scene actually played out and replace it with your (must better written, I assume) headcanon?
>Dishonesty or moronation, anon?
No yeah can't think of any other similarity between "Family member who was entrenched by the darkside, but this method still works" and "Family member who maayyyy have some dark side temptation".
Gee if only he'd been the only person in the entire universe who figured out how to fix that.
>You do realize that Luke igniting his saber was describes as pure instinct in TLJ, correct?
Neato. Guess what? Still as dumb as the hope you have of this making sense, because guess what? He knows how to deal with this. He's the only person in recorded history who figured out how to deal with this. It's a major part of the plot. That he got to this point is plain and simple bad writing made to facilitate blatant copy pasting of a better movie. It makes no sense for the character, the plot, or with previous events.
>And that the moment Luke started thinking about it, he regretted his instinct.
You keep saying this like this part, instead of "Not doing the thing he knows works", is the part that drops this writing into the shitter.
Its the latter.
>Now, we've already established that you do not understand how human beings work.
You've established it exactly as well as Rian established Luke trying that thing that worked. Exactly 1-1.
Because you're just that smart.
> But can you possibly entertain the thought that instincts are not informed by factual information you might or might not have learned at an earlier point in your life?
Right. Just as an aside, could you be forgetting something? A line of dialogue that, sadly, did not establish any attempt at doing the thing that a normal functioning human or basic writing would say he would, but instead established this wasn't the first time he had these thoughts?
Sorry Rian's so shit at writing he can't even let you have this.
>and replace it
Nah I don't write fanfiction for shitty movies, and this one's as badly written as they come.
>Neato. Guess what? Still as dumb as the hope you have of this making sense, because guess what? He knows how to deal with this.
Yeah, no, you definitely do not understand how human beings work. You don't want to.
>you definitely do not understand how human beings work
Where exactly did this weird ass "Appeal to nature" circular argument come from on your end anyway?
Also, why do you think just doing a random thing and saying "Whelp, that's humans" would make it any better writing? If your entire plot hinges on a character forgetting what is the most seminal parts of their life and a major source of information that would prevent all of this, it's just regular bad writing, not "Humanity".
>forgetting what is the most seminal parts of their life
And here we are again with your fricking dishonesty. That's why, no matter how much effort you put into your bait, you'll never get more than single line replies.
>>that means he conquered temptation as a concept and would never ever think about doing bad things ever again
Dumb shit he's saying that he should've tried doing the good things that worked first. And don't say "He probably did", this movie isn't worth writing fanfiction over. If it's not on the screen, we can assume it didn't happen from the fact they stuffed in a shitton of other stuff in there instead.
It's true that most people don't get it and the fact that to this day people talk about things that are resolved visually or by the plot as the movies progress is a sure sign of it.
Now are those movies masterpieces? No. Are they ahead of prequels, way ahead.
They come with the star wars poop baggage so I wouldn't recommend them. But ep 7 and 8 are made for humans, prequels and 9 are for bugmen, you can have those.
>It's true that most people don't get it
There's you and critics and pretty much nobody else, everyone else figured out why it doesn't make sense forever ago, and your lot just really hopes eventually you'll figure out some reason why this obvious contradiction in service of copy pasting whole chunks from better movies will be seen as good, someday.
>8 are made for humans
Of course.
Dumb ones who won't think too hard about characters or plot or basic progression of events, very specifically dumb ones. Enjoy your scenes of random ass saving of cgi monsters while leaving slave children to suffer before cutting back ESB, Shit Edition"
>everyone else got that the books of the Jedi were burned, we're just right we stopped watching there it was an "authority is a cloak" move and an anti-tradition moment
frick off I'm not reading none of your wall of texts - I bet you're even talking with yourself and you've filled at least 30% of the posts itt.
>everyone else
Who, exactly? You, Mauler, his furry friends and critical drinker?
Meanwhile, you use "critics" like an insult, when those people interpret film for a living. Well, traditional critics at least. But you make no difference between professionals and bloggers/youtubers/redditors, do you?
>Who, exactly? You, Mauler, his furry friends and critical drinker?
Or the people who made this world record holder for biggest sequel drops of all time. Those folks who made Jumanji have a 10X multiplier from it's opening weekend.
"Fans of TLJ" are not exactly numerous. Or all that smart.
>for biggest sequel drops
It had comparable drops to TESB, actually, in terms of percentage. Slightly less, depending on what numbers you use for the OT. And it had way less of a drop than AOTC vs TPM.
>"Fans of TLJ" are not exactly numerous.
You'd be surprised. Casual audiences loved it.
Your youtube echo chamber is not indicative of what actual people think.
>It had comparable drops to TESB,
Sure, if you're bad at math. 190 million(First year of Star War's release) vs 140 million(First year of ESB's release) is $188,304,611.65 adjusted for inflation, waayyyyy below the 732 MILLION drop from TFA to TLJ.
Now you're bad at thinking things so you might be wondering "But those numbers on wikipedia are different!" because you don't know how re-releases work, or that A New Hope re-released every year between it's release and ESB's. And then afterwards every year until ROTJ. And then again in the 90's just because. And again before TPM.
So no, not comparative.
>And it had way less of a drop than AOTC vs TPM
Also not true, because $520,791,171.48 is less than 732 million, you see. 732 million, despite a nigh identical opening.
>Casual audiences loved it.
It's second week dropoff of 151 million beat Batman Vs Superman.
You're living in your own world and boy it's dumb in there.
>Also not true, because $520,791,171.48 is less than 732 million, you see
Is that adjusted to 2024 dollars difference or adjusted to 2017 dollars difference, because depending on which you'd have to adjust TLJ's drop to $926,724,184.07 in todays money.
It's adjusted to whatever he needs to support his headcanon narrative.
>It's adjusted to whatever he needs
Or just what the calculator tells me it is.
I didn't code it maybe it's lying to the guy who either is going to bundle every re-release or doesn't know 140 isn't 60 percent of 190. Being bad at math or basic dollar amounts is your job.
>waayyyyy below the 732 MILLION drop from TFA to TLJ.
I see you do not understand how percentages work, instead trying to mess around with absolute numbers "adjusted for bullshit". You don't need to adjust anything when you're talking about relative values.
Fact is: Star Wars to TESB lost about 60%. TFA to TLJ also lost about 60%. The former slightly less, if we use your numbers.
>Also not true, because $520,791,171.48 is less than 732 million
And once again, you do not understand what a percentage is.
>I see you do not understand how percentages work,
This is going to be fun. You want to talk about percentages? Well then lets have fun with percentages
I wonder I wonder which is the Star Wars movie with the worst legs out of all of them, percentage wise?
>the worst legs
And also the second best opening weekend.
Yeah. Resulting in the second highest box office revenue overall.
Funny. Almost as if it really doesn't matter WHEN people go see a film, rather then how many of them do.
>And also the second best opening weekend.
Yes sir it did, second best opening weekend, everyone was super stoked to see Luke again! TFA hype was strong, everyone was excited!
Weird that those numbers tanked worse than Attack of the Clones, I wonder what could've caused that?
>Yeah. Resulting in the second highest box office revenue overall.
Not even remotely close unless you're counting unadjusted for inflation. Not even TPM levels, in that case. Or are those percentages the wrong ones.
But hey, it only lost to... Age of Ultron.
>. Almost as if it really doesn't matter WHEN people go see a film,
Oh yeah because lots of people going on opening weekend and way less afterward the opening doesn't mean anything. Nothing to gleam from people choosing to go to Junmanji more than Star Wars two weeks after it drops.
I mean the guy had a hat tipping gif and said the energy for the third weekned was just right, why didn't it work?
>rather then how many of them do.
And in this case, so much fewer of them went that it broke a world record in sheer dollar amount of drop. Looking Glass was something else but even it couldn't touch this drop.
Not till Marvels, at least.
>Age of Ultron.
Frick Age of Ultron, it went from the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time to making less than Frozen. Then it went from making less than Frozen to making less than Joker, one BILLION DOLLARS, BILLION, WITH A B, less from TFA to ROS. The only trilogy in history to have that dishonor during what was the most profitable year on record. Very funny that Rise of Skywalker had a much, much lower opening than TLJ did, I wonder why so many people weren't excited this time around?
>unless you're counting unadjusted for inflation.
Adjusting to inflation doesn't work. Cinema tickets are not groceries. They're luxury items. If you're adjusting for inflation, you're overadjusting, since inflation for luxury items is much lower than for products of everyday need.
Have you never wondered why the moment you do adjust, shit like Gone With the Wind doesn't just end up on top of the list, but completely dwarfs anything else? Wait, of course you haven't. Because you don't actually have any interest for those statistics other than when they support a narrative of yours.
>Adjusting to inflation doesn't work
So just to check here.
>Amount of people matters
>But not that way
So even if we count tickets sold, it doesn't count.
Did you get a lot of kids to play by your arbitrary and "just because" rules on the playground or is this strictly something you want to check off your bucket list because nobody else did it?
>Have you never wondered why the moment you do adjust, shit like Gone With the Wind doesn't just end up on top of the list,
No I just knew it sold an absolute metric frickload more tickets than anything else in history due to constant re-releases and the longest theater run in history in addition to being a cultural phenomenon, those factors coming together to give it an unrepeatable advantage just like the original Star Wars had due in no small part to SW reshaping the entire theater landscape and preventing the very 4 year run that made it's fortune.
Because I'm not an idiot and this is readily available information. You chose to go a different route and that's pretty much just expected from the kind of dumb that likes TLJ.
>So even if we count tickets sold, it doesn't count.
You're not counting "tickets sold". You're counting box office revenue, but multiplied by an almost random factor.
>You're counting box office revenue,
More specifically I'm counting what that amount of money would have made had it been released at the same time, but hey, I'm willing to go the other route if you want.
If we use our handy dandy google and type in how much each sold, Empire sold 98,180,600 VS 67,594,500
>I'm counting what that amount of money would have made had it been released at the same time
Kek. You are beyond being reasoned with.
>Kek. You are beyond being reasoned with.
Man, play along with a guy for every one of his crazy ass games and when it comes down to him being wrong in a way he just can't wiggle out of, he just folds like origami. Can't use dollar amounts for the drop, have to use percentages, but can use dollar amounts for the ranking, because adjusted for inflation or ticket sales don't count. Have to count all re-releases but can't count legs compared to release opening. Every time a new rule popping up when the last one fails, and there it ends.
With a whimper, as shitty and poorly thought out as the movie only an idiot would try to argue for. This exact level of idiot, and no different.
>Casual audiences loved it.
More than 1 out of every 3 tickets were sold in the first weekend. Not week, week end. More than 1 out of every 3 tickets, period.
>Your youtube echo chamber
No yeah totally normal for a movie to break the previous world record one hundred forty seven million second week drop and go on to drop seven hundred and thirty two million dollars from the previous movie. Why I'm sure you can name one other time that happened where people loved it. Go on. Name it.
It's quite possible men did and were fired.
His reason for doing it was completely schizo too. I hate Rian Johnson and will never forgive him.
Media literacy: None.
OT has its merit as its own isolated series due to having the spark of soul and being a decent ark.
But why was I baited with the prequels bros?
How can Lucas lose all the soul and direction for three new movies?
Ep 8 is the peak of the prequels.
Ep 9 is on par with the prequels, aka trash.
Ep 7 worked as a good memory lane for the OT.
My friends! I bring you glad tidings.
Many of you are crying out for death. The good news is Death has heard you. Soon you will all be dead.
Noone at Lucasfilm cared. I'd argue Filoni mightve had a problem with it but not enough to risk losing his job playing with his OCs.
>muh Felony
Kek. I can tell what youtube channels you watch.
Well, Disney Wars doesn´t count anyways so no harm done.
Anon, that was the plan all along
They should've stepped up when they made Rebels a kids show and with that shitty artstyle
They shouldve stepped up and told George to not do the DS2 and have it on Kashyyk instead of Endor.
Doomed since ESB
Rebels has soul and is made for humans.
Unlike 75% of Clone Wars.
Rebels is the single worst Star Wars thing ever made next to the ST, and it's even worse when it comes to the sheer stupidity of the shit it introduced into canon. Absolute garbage for complete and utter morons.
>t. prequels baby
>t. actual baby (with down syndrome)
It was a very obvious metaphor for child molestation
guys, what did Rich mean by this?
?si=M_U6Q0ELNCg1_SBr&t=956
>low IQ nonsense reply
>motion pictures are mainly a visual medium homosexual that spams stills and webms
>no u - level of "rhetoric"
yea, clockwork
You've got to be a complete homosexual if you watched 8 after the absolute garbage that was 7. It's kinda baffling, really.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/tripcode/sQt0VzitJc/order/asc/
Im a true star wars fan, you are not.
I saw the interview Mark Hamil did where he was talking about the shit story in the sequels and he looked crushed about it, so i didnt bother watching the new ones. I dont need some mentally ill israelite or feminist who hates white men to ruin my childhood hero thank you very much.
Truly he tried to warned us at every occasion. They even killed him in post production for the ultimate insult.
Leftists are genuinely evil
>Somehow, Luke's anger issues returned