Plus as we see in like every incarnation, Eggman is incredibly competent against every other threat against him, it's literally just Sonic he has trouble with, chances are he's well protected and knows when/how to keep himself safe
In the games, he basically made a Death Star that never worked, unleashed a bunch of ancient forces he desperately tried to contain once they got out of hand, and after that did mostly goofy shit like making an outer space amusement park. In general, he wanted to conquer the world, not destroy it, and fought alongside the goodies whenever a baddie rose up that could.
Zombots, he gleefully spread a plague that he never even BEGAN to have a plan to control and only worked against it when the Zeti got involved. Even for Eggman, it was a sloppy, unnecessarily destructive plan that made no sense. It would catapult him from being a nuisance to the world to public ebemy number one.
>all governments try to take down Eggman >he has an army of robots, worker robots that can build almost anything and don't need pay or rest as long as they get energy
Eggman could take over the world at any time. He is just cares more about his own ego and wants to do it in a complicated way. If he wanted to he could just mass produce nukes while stockpiling on anti nuke tech.
>Zombots, he gleefully spread a plague that he never even BEGAN to have a plan to control and only worked against it when the Zeti got involved.
This is the result of sloppy reading. Eggman had control of the zombots from the beginning. It was only after spreading that it started to mutate and he lost control. He would later fix that but it was immediately broken by Sonic. Then Starline got impatient and fricked up everything.
Yes he did, he was just not panicking about it as much as Starline was because he was confidant he could fix it, which they did.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He did not care when he lost control though.
>Zombots, he gleefully spread a plague that he never even BEGAN to have a plan to control and only worked against it when the Zeti got involved.
This is the result of sloppy reading. Eggman had control of the zombots from the beginning. It was only after spreading that it started to mutate and he lost control. He would later fix that but it was immediately broken by Sonic. Then Starline got impatient and fricked up everything.
He discovered that all the Zombots will degrade and melt in like 200 years, when the virus itself breaks down. His plan was to simply leave the planet until it's safe to go back.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon you do realize he would be dead by that point right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Doesn't rule out the possibly that Eggman can easily transfer his consciousness to a computer, or make himself immortal through ancient magical bullshittery.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Doesn't rule out the possibly that Eggman can easily transfer his consciousness to a computer
Then he wouldn't need to worry about the virus. >or make himself immortal through ancient magical bullshittery
Then losing a planet or two shouldn't matter to him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>because he was confidant he could fix it
He didn't care about anything.
He was going to just leave the planet because apparently that's something he can do but won't because it's more fun to start grey goo scenarios.
I can never understand how people imagine eggman to be silly and innocent.
Children's video game villain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He didn't care about anything.
Yes he did and he already said he would fix it. Just because he wasn't losing his head over it doesn't mean he didn't care. >He was going to just leave the planet
Which would have been unnecessary because it takes hundreds of years for the virus to break down.
>He would later fix that
No he didn't. Starline did. Before and after that, Eggman was perfectly fine letting it run wild and coming up with a way to control them later. That is literally why Starline went to the zeti. His constant nagging went nowhere with Eggman.
>No he didn't. Starline did.
They both did, they were going through frequencies to control the zombots and then Sonic came in and Eggman was busy fighting him while Starline eventually found the right frequency, something that would had happened anyway if Sonic hadn't interrupted. Starline didn't do it on his own nor did he come up with a new way to do it, they were literally in the middle of doing what Eggman said he would do.
Starline's issue was that Eggman didn't plan to lose control beforehand because he's so obsessed with perfection, which just goes back to his fatal flaw of not being able to adapt when shit goes wrong. It's why despite all his failures Eggman bounces back while Starline dies.
While i agree on what you posted, the thing with eggman is he's practically unbeatable, for everyone that is not sonic and a couple of his friends
I mean even in forces which is supposed the animal humanoids earth, the dude practically wiped everything in the world, including G. U. N. (we know this thanks to tails tube, so i guess they exist on both earths)
Is much worse if you acknowledge the two worlds things because eggman in the human world has taken earth hostage with the eclipse canon in adventure 2, broke the earth with one of his lasers, and released an elder god of darkness in Unleashed, the dude is not only a powerhouse but a brilliant genious with more advance tech than the earth. He has an army capable or conquering the earth, an thanks to his supplies of working robots he can build anything as he pleases, i doubt resources are a problem to him, he just can take them.
The thing with eggman is the same problem of why batman can kill the joker.
Batman and sonic in terms or morality can kill then to have the lesser evil.
But both are vigilantes with no power over laws on the earth. For them, they could do it, but is not exactly their job to do it.
People always think might makes right, but people tend to forget batman even as a vigilante have rules, about what he can do, even without the joker in particular.
The same with sonic, he lives by his own rules, and in his special case, he does things for the thrill of it. With sonic special case he doesn't even see himself as a good guy, he likes freedom above all else, killing an individual, (that is not an elder eldritch god capable of destroying time and space) is take people own choices and their own freedom, for him people can do as they please as long they don't try to take someone else's and if you try to do it, he will take action to stop it. Yeah sonic could kill eggman if he wanted, but why would he do it? Eggman does shit and he still stop him anyway, his his hobby to stop eggman.
Yeah the dude practically yield the whole world(s) more than once, eggman is a goofy villain but people tend to forget he is an incredible and really evil motherfricker. Even of he does things for fun like bulding deathly themeparks. How can nations fight a guy who could actually prove he can destroy everything if he wanted?
People think having powers automatically make you a hero, and that's a really wrong way of thinking, you can be a villian or an butthole with superpowers, being a hero is an ideology, and an archetype of someone extremely virtuous and selfless.
The thing with morality is every individual has his own sense of it, something i think is wrong for other people maybe is right.
Is a place with a lot of gray in the area.
Maybe for a lot of people killing eggman is a right thing to do, but i doubt sonic could do such choice, is more obvious if you see his way to see life, the guy loves adventures, that's it.
If let's say GUN succeeded taking down eggman sonic would be fine with it, but not by his own hands.
People tend to forget is not that easy to kill too. Is easy to have an opinion when you aren't the one who's gonna take action.
This makes things worse because if it's just one world, eggman have successfully take earth hostage at least 3 times.
I see some post about sonic throwing eggman in jail but thi guy is right
People tend to forget even if sonic is capable to stop eggman, eggman, is smart enough to escape from sonic every time.
Even sonic can't exactly catch him, just temporary stop him.
every time sonic stops eggman eggman just escapes once again
People forgot too when the village encounter eggman fainted as mr tinker, they actually throw him into jail but the guy is so smart he even escaped just to fix his cell.
Gun, wasn't there because eggman practically destroyed them and the whole world.
>They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
This honestly. It's one thing for Eggy to try and kill Sonic and friends, that's bad enough. It's another thing when he tries to wipe out all life on the planet and convert the people of the world into his mindless slaves.
Eggman should be a bad guy that wants to conquer the world/universe but even he should have limits on the kind of shit he'd do to achieve that goal. He shouldn't be a complete monster, otherwise you get people asking why Sonic hasn't killed the guy yet.
Dark Gaia was the one that wanted to kill everything, Eggy just wanted to use it to beat Sonic and conquer the world.
And I know Eggman cracks the world apart in the beginning of the game but I honestly just pretend that didn't happen, it's way too evil for Eggman to just kill millions of people like that when he never even used the Eclipse Cannon to wipe out a single city,
This. Sonic sees Eggman TWICE since the zombot fiasco, and just lets him go each time.
Don't kill him, fine, but at least toss him in the clink for a while, frick.
Sonic fights Eggman the first time after trying to reason with him and Eggman only escapes because Starline warps them out.
The second time they were all stuck on Angel Island and Eggman was helping them stop the Metal Virus and the Deadly Six
Oh yeah, I actually forgot about that. Kek.
Well, even so, I prefer an Eggman that's a legit threat that wants to conquer everything without filling graveyards doing it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
how do you expect anyone to conquer the world without killing millions ? even the most generous characterization of that ambition would still be someone worth killing
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Oh yeah, I actually forgot about that.
A common occurrence here. People need to play the games more.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I prefer an Eggman that's a legit threat that wants to conquer everything without filling graveyards doing it.
That's just Dr. Wily.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I liked that contrast between Wily and Eggman in the Archie crossover. Wily wanted to prove his way was better and humble Light while Eggman just wanted to rub out a threat.
>And I know Eggman cracks the world apart in the beginning of the game but I honestly just pretend that didn't happen, it's way too evil
If you're discussing what Eggman is capable of and what's OOC for him, it seems a bit questionable to pretend that the parts that contradict your argument just don't exist.
I do feel that after the zombot disaster, the characters of the IDW universe should be really fricking pissed off with Eggman. Everyone was affected by what he did and they all went through horribly traumatic experiences. However, I still feel like it's in-character for Eggman to try to pull off a dangerous villain plan that turns out to be beyond his control and ends up backfiring with catastrophic consequences.
>And I know Eggman cracks the world apart in the beginning of the game but I honestly just pretend that didn't happen, it's way too evil for Eggman to just kill millions of people like that when he never even used the Eclipse Cannon to wipe out a single city,
To be fair it's never really shown to do that much damage to people. I think it's treated mostly as a "oh no, it's hard to go other places now and there's heartless everywhere now playing tedious jazz music" and not really an actual, serious threat you're meant to see as truly heinous. Just saturday morning cartoon shit, as usual.
While i agree on what you posted, the thing with eggman is he's practically unbeatable, for everyone that is not sonic and a couple of his friends
I mean even in forces which is supposed the animal humanoids earth, the dude practically wiped everything in the world, including G. U. N. (we know this thanks to tails tube, so i guess they exist on both earths)
Is much worse if you acknowledge the two worlds things because eggman in the human world has taken earth hostage with the eclipse canon in adventure 2, broke the earth with one of his lasers, and released an elder god of darkness in Unleashed, the dude is not only a powerhouse but a brilliant genious with more advance tech than the earth. He has an army capable or conquering the earth, an thanks to his supplies of working robots he can build anything as he pleases, i doubt resources are a problem to him, he just can take them.
The thing with eggman is the same problem of why batman can kill the joker.
Batman and sonic in terms or morality can kill then to have the lesser evil.
But both are vigilantes with no power over laws on the earth. For them, they could do it, but is not exactly their job to do it.
People always think might makes right, but people tend to forget batman even as a vigilante have rules, about what he can do, even without the joker in particular.
The same with sonic, he lives by his own rules, and in his special case, he does things for the thrill of it. With sonic special case he doesn't even see himself as a good guy, he likes freedom above all else, killing an individual, (that is not an elder eldritch god capable of destroying time and space) is take people own choices and their own freedom, for him people can do as they please as long they don't try to take someone else's and if you try to do it, he will take action to stop it. Yeah sonic could kill eggman if he wanted, but why would he do it? Eggman does shit and he still stop him anyway, his his hobby to stop eggman.
I mean, has he ever not done that?
Plus as we see in like every incarnation, Eggman is incredibly competent against every other threat against him, it's literally just Sonic he has trouble with, chances are he's well protected and knows when/how to keep himself safe
It's not that, it's that Eggman came exceedingly close to causing a complete extinction event and no one even attempted to give him jail time.
After the zombot fiasco every nation on Earth would realistically be trying to take him out.
They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
my two cents is that Eggman is evil but he wants to be more entertained and worshipped than just kill everyone
he wants his mustache around the entire planet so people can see it all the time, and if theres no planet or people to see the mustache, then whats the point?
>It's not that, it's that Eggman came exceedingly close to causing a complete extinction event and no one even attempted to give him jail time.
Sonic isn't the fricking cops. He is just some dude. You people act likr the cast are the fricking justice league when they aren't. >They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
Thats a completely seperate conversation that has nothing to do with Sonic's actual decisions and morality.
>They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
Even during the Zombot Arc he's a million times goofier than SA2 Eggman, he's just also more unhinged.
This is the exact problem.
SatAM Robotnik worked because the ultimate goal of Sonic and the freedom fighters was to kill or capture Robotnik. Sonic was driven and largely responsible as a result.
Combining an Eggman THAT threatening with a Sonic that literally doesn't even try to imprison him doesn't work.
You can have a light-hearted Eggman and light-hearted Sonic, serious Eggman and serious Sonic, but serious Eggman and light-hearted Sonic makes Sonic just look frivolous
Surge is right, though. Literally her entire suffering is because Sonic refused to get rid of his enemies. And not only that, he won't even let her have her righteous revenge. >you can't kill the guy who hypnotized, tortured, experimented and brainwashed you!!!!!! that's bad!!!!!
You literally can - sonic not only repaired but let Metal Sonic go, which resulted in Eggman becoming Mr.Tinker, which resulted in Starline getting the boot and starting his plan to make Surge and Kitsunami
Not only that, but he also said he wasn't going to let her "take their freedom"
Which wouldn't have worked if Starline didnt prep him first. Metal was just a convenient last trigger.
Sonic is not at fault for not being psychic and knowing a psycho duck with cracked portal gun gem could instantly find him and hypnotherapy him into Eggman again. And even then, Starline would still do his frickshit regardless.
Like demonstrated in SA1 getting her revenge won't make her feel better. Also she wanted to kill everyone on the planet because of her angst so she loses a bit of moral high ground there.
No she isn't. Starline would still do his shit regardless and Surge herself basically throws her old life away saying it probably sucked whennshe fights Sonic. She is just mentslly ill and makinf excuses for herself to justify her irrational Sonic hateboner.
No Starline wouldn't you coping idiot. Starline only did that shit as his plot to get revenge on Eggman for breaking up with him. Without Sonci protecting Eggman from death there would be no Eggman at all. You seething about your self-insert being a moron does not make the arguments brought against him "irrational", it makes you a pathetic manbaby.
People tend to forget even if sonic is capable to stop eggman, eggman, is smart enough to escape from sonic every time.
Even sonic can't exactly catch him, just temporary stop him.
>Sonic doesn't want to kill Eggman just because he really doesn't want to. >Eggman doesn't kill Sonic because his life would be boring without him.
It's so hard to understand this? also if someone really wanted to kill eggman they would have done it themselves or created security protocols against eggman, sonic is not anyone's babysitter.
Eggman doesn't kill Sonic (now) because he wants to do it in an particular, special way, he said it in the comic that he could very well just carpet bomb the whole region to kill him, but that wouldn't be "beating him"
Honestly, this fact alone is why I hope Ian is taking notes about the "Robotnik adopts tails as his son" youtube poop meme
I mean, think about it: it both solves the "why doesn't Sonic just kil Eggman?" question (because then tails would inherit the entire criminal empire) and ALSO manages to make EVERYONE fricking salty as frick
Sonic is salty because his buddy is no longer there for tech support, starline is salty because eggman literally gives tails more attention than he ever did to him, the fricking clownbot is salty for almsot the exact same reason, tails is salty because eggman gets to call him out on beign sonic's little b***h and basically havign a breakdown when he disapeared in Forces and basically go "son, your literally one bad day away from being eggman 2.0 just fricking own it", Eggman can be salty over something like GUN putting tails on a global wanted list just for being his adopted son
Tails is too loyal to sonic to side with eggman, he seethed when sonic was just taken advice from ivo in lost world.
And we are talking about tails a guy so loyal to sonic he broke in the most secure jail facility in the world, and became a high level criminal himself just ti save his buddy, because he believes in him at 100%
>a guy so loyal to sonic he broke in the most secure jail facility in the world, and became a high level criminal himself just ti save his buddy, because he believes in him at 100%
Tails is a gigaCHAD.
That's why people were so upset about sonic forces, like if tails forgot how much of a chad he became after sonic aventure 1 and 2 in terms of character development.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, Forces really dropped the ball there. Tails is more than capable of fighting on his own, he fought and beat Eggman more than once for crying out loud. The little guy is a galaxy-brain genius capable of keeping up with Sonic. He wouldn't have a mental breakdown if Sonic got captured, he'd just break out the Cyclone and go John Rambo mode again.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This in SA2 when he thought Eggman killed Sonic he got his shit together and took Eggman down and hard honestly hate how Sega ruined Tails.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And then he gets all depressed after his adrenaline rush and he has to sit with the fact sonic is gone.
For 1) Sega would never allow this (which ties into 2) at all and 2) Ian wouldn't care because of the fact that he's not allowed to do anything creative with the characters nor is he the one heading the books, now. Evan is.
Eggman and Sonic are practically meant for each other: two halves of the same coin.
They're the two most powerful individuals in their world, able to change the course of events through their whims...but they're also mostly manchildren who don't want to grow up and assume responsibilities for their actions
Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick. Several times Eggman has threatened the world (the Zombot incident being bad enough to prompt Silver to travel back to the past again) and Sonic's only reaction is catch and release and then sit around with his gloved thumb up his ass until Eggman comes back again. Throwing Eggman in jail wouldn't be a permanent solution but it's better than doing nothing at all.
>Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick.
See, this is what I think is the issue.
Sonic may do heroic deeds, but I'm not 100% sure he may be a hero (at least in the capeshit sense). He does the right thing because most of the time, he feels like it.
Sonic's is an adventurer, a thrill seeker. He saves the day for the lulz, not for a higher purpose.
Ironically, only Fleetway the Jerkhog is commited to being Mobius's champion. Maybe even Movie Sonic.
Shadow isn't PHYSICALLY faster than Sonic outside of reflexes, but he has short-range teleportation and rocket shoes that puts him on equal footing with Sonic. He's physically stronger than Sonic is though, which combined with his teleportation make him a force to be reckoned with, or at least they should.
Movie Sonic is definitely about on par with Fleetway in terms of heroism and taking his job (well, eventual job) seriously. He literally opened by trying to cave in Robotnik's skull in the second movie and only failed because Knuckles was there. Then he pushed him to his death at the end.
I think if anything, Movie is MORE brutal than Fleetway is. Fleetway is committed, but he just jails Robotnik because he still has lingering hope of bringing back Kintobor. Movie outright attempts to off his twice to get rid of the threat entirely.
>They're the two most powerful individuals in their world, able to change the course of events through their whims...but they're also mostly manchildren who don't want to grow up and assume responsibilities for their actions
Basically
Eggman would definitely kill sonic given the chance but he's too much an idiot with a flair for the dramatic to just do it and gives sonic opportunities to escape and turn the tables.
Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick. Several times Eggman has threatened the world (the Zombot incident being bad enough to prompt Silver to travel back to the past again) and Sonic's only reaction is catch and release and then sit around with his gloved thumb up his ass until Eggman comes back again. Throwing Eggman in jail wouldn't be a permanent solution but it's better than doing nothing at all.
But anon, if hero kill villain, no can use villain no more. Have make new villain, and make new villain am haaaaaaaard :~~*. Much better to reuse old villain over and over again, even if make hero look bad. Change baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Same old storyline over and over again very much super duper good.
You could avoid this problem by giving Sonic a larger rogues gallery to cycle through. So far IDW has only has Eggman, Lesser Eggman, and the fricking Zeti. >but what about Clutch?
What ABOUT Clutch? He's a small time crime lord and the fact that Rough and Tumble are henching for him proves it.
Anon, comic book am pretty picture to keep small people busy so big people can do big people things. No need try hard, small people easier to please than angry computer people.
>immediately resolves a bunch of plot hooks that Ken Penders left behind >orchestrates the creation of the seven chaos emeralds and the special zone >forces a shit OC who would've lived on in mediocrity and taking of page space to heroically sacrifice himself instead
What's not to love about A.D.A.M.?
What about Ixis Naugus or Mammoth Mogul? What was wrong with them?
[...]
Imagine not liking Mogul, Enerjak or A.D.A.M.
>immediately resolves a bunch of plot hooks that Ken Penders left behind >orchestrates the creation of the seven chaos emeralds and the special zone >forces a shit OC who would've lived on in mediocrity and taking of page space to heroically sacrifice himself instead
What's not to love about A.D.A.M.?
You're all forgetting the REAL best villain. >wasted Locke >wasted 90% of Eggman's base >wasted the Echidnas >gave the dingos the boot
>Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick.
Then you fundementally do not get Sonic as a character. He isn't a hero/protector of earth like Supes. Soniv is just some fricker with superspeed that happens to have the the power to stop bad shit from happening when it comes his way or he happens to see it. His main goals in life are just having fun and going on thrilling adventures, seeing everything the world has to offer before he inevitably dies of old age or grtting himself killed in his thrillseeking, because life is short.
That sounds bland as frick and really questionable for a protagonist. If that's how japaneses want to portray him, then I'm fine with Sonic on other reincarnations.
>That sounds bland as frick and really questionable for a protagonist.
That's just how Sonic is. It's fine that you don't like it but don't act like it's OOC.
>That sounds bland as frick
You're an idiot lol. Thats wya more originsl than generic muh justice hero character "stop, evildooer!!" Protag number 46'853. >questionable for a protagonist.
You are why American media is dogshit these days. You unorinically believe a protagonist can only be a specific way and have specific morals and dispositions.
Sonic is not and never has been a conventional hero. And thats based because it means we can explore shit rather than go over worn ground.
>That sounds bland as frick and really questionable for a protagonist
Reminder that protagonist =/= hero. They can be as heroic or anti-heroic as it pleases them. It just means they are the main character.
Sonic is just a protag from an ongoing Japanese series where they repeat the same enjoyable formula ad naseum but change things around to match changing trends (see: Lupin the 3rd, Ash in Pokemon, Detective Conan, Doraemon, and yes, fricking Goku)
>If that's how japaneses want to portray him
believe it or not, Japanese Sonic is even more blander than American Sonic and as morally questionable as 50+ yr old manbaby monkey man. But ultimately, he's a big ol teddy bear of high morality.
American Sonic adds up the edge a bit with quips, sarcasm & memes.
AoSTH Sonic is a goofy meddler who's close to Game Sonic.
SatAM/Archie Sonic is a child soldier who wants to win a war to get into Sally's non existent pants.
OVA Sonic seems like a hero for hire that only saves the day to get into Sarah's pants.
X Sonic is Game Sonic until he goes gay for Chris. Then he becomes a lazy bum.
Boom Sonic IS a lazy bum, but his battles is more about shooing Eggman off town
Movie Sonic wants to be a hero cuz he's a Barrygay (plus owl mom trauma)
>It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era.
It is closer to what Sonic is.
Granted I do not want to see the comic become that dumbed down, but actively taking focus away from the main cast because character development is not possible is stupid.
The compromise is long form self-contained stories.
>The compromise is long form self-contained stories.
THIS
But in this comic, Sonic is portrayed as the only person that can stop Eggman, and the only person that goes out of his way to stop others from killing/confining Eggman.
You're right--he's not meant to be Superman. He's acting more like a badly written Batman.
>the only person that goes out of his way to stop others from killing/confining Eggman.
Literally only time was when he was Mr. Tinker and the Chaotix and Rouge agreed with him. >b-but Surge
Surge threatened not only the doctors, but Sonic, his friends, and regular people in the world. He said he wasn't going to let her hurt anyone, not specifically Starline and Eggman.
>Sonic is portrayed as the only person that can stop Eggman, and the only person that goes out of his way to stop others from killing/confining Eggman.
You made this up. Sonic doesn't care if you jail him. He just isn't gonna do it himself because its not his fricking job and he has more important shit to do with his life. Sonic protected Tibkee because he saw Tinker as his own person and an innocent.
Then Sonic is just as much of a terror as Eggman and should be killed or tossed into a blackhole side-by-side with the man to free the world from being shackled to their madness. That is all this "muh freedom" autism of an argument leads to.
This just comes off like the Ratchet movie where they both quote the billions of inhabitants of a destroyed planet and then have a main character go "no-one was killed or injured" to try and shift the guilt off another character's back
The origi al Genesis games had him waddle at hypersonic speed for fear of Sonic kicking his butt, and when all the Chaos Emeralds are collected, he stomps impotently
He's not quite Cortex "Doesn't even want to be here" harmless, but he's been a big ol manbaby forever.
He's pretty silly in all but a few games. It's always either Elmer/Bugs style feuding or him enacting a plan that MIGHT kill everyone but he's too hasty and egocentric to be cautious.
I assume op probably knows this but it's the fact that he lets eggman go, not just having eggman get away like dr wily in mega man, but this also being acknowledged by the story
He ends up feeling like Goku as the all-powerful protag that won't ever properly lose so he can do what he wants, but debatably worse since at least when goku spared vegeta he knew this wasn't the right thing to do but just wanted to fight him again
I think the actual biggest issue is that if sonic realises letting eggman go is wrong it will probably just end up with eggman in jail than escaping, so it won't feel like much progress will be made
Yes, Starline's. By the time that Impostor Syndrome ended (before their fight), Surge had decided that she wasn't having any of this garbage and decided she'd rather just burn it all down with Kit.
It's the same reason Mario doesn't kill Bowser, it's a company brand. If you kill of established characters, it costs too much money to bother coming up with new characters and world building. SEGA is too small of a company to afford it, prease understando.
The difference is that bowser is just some weirdo who repeatedly kidnaps peach but never actually does anything to harm her, whereas Eggman in this comic has literally caused an zombie apocalypse.
And this is not an SEGA thing, because Archie and Fleetway sonic repeatedly jailed Eggman. Even if he escapes, just letting him go is outright moronic.
The difference is that bowser is just some weirdo who repeatedly kidnaps peach but never actually does anything to harm her, whereas Eggman in this comic has literally caused an zombie apocalypse.
And this is not an SEGA thing, because Archie and Fleetway sonic repeatedly jailed Eggman. Even if he escapes, just letting him go is outright moronic.
Believe it or not but kidnapping people is a valid reason to gat a foo'
Bowser was at his worst in Galaxy/Galaxy 2, but he didnt attempt to commit universal genocide until he was at his very last rope. In general, hes often OPPOSED to threats trying to destory the entire universe.
In comparison, Eggman is the type of guy who wonders exactly how and most optimally he can exploit Hell for infinite hot water.
Ian's hairdresser told me in a podcast from light in a window that it's an IDW mandate to not have cops. They only allowed the prison because it was a mini and all the staff were busy quitting at the time.
>The difference is that bowser is just some weirdo who repeatedly kidnaps peach but never actually does anything to harm her, whereas Eggman in this comic has literally caused an zombie apocalypse.
I like how you ignored the part where Eggman constantly tries to kill the heroes with robots.
My dude, Bowser's repeatedly successfully taken over the Mushroom Kingdom and in the Galaxy games threatens everything, everywhere in a bid to remake reality in his image.
>After the zombot fiasco every nation on Earth would realistically be trying to take him out. >Earth >Everyone is busy rebuilding their homes to take him on.
>Zavok gets whooped the first time >Jailed >Zavok gets helped to escape >Gets whooped again, this time with a technology that quickly defeats him >Sent back to Lost Hex where he will not be monitored and he promises to return and do more damage.
Because we're adult enough to want gritty adult themes but still childish enough to read and enjoy Sonic, so we can't comprehend the immaturity of our supposed 'mature' takes on things.
This is basically peak "executive" intelligence. Take a look at modern sale numbers and you'll see this is a complete lie.
Sure, if you have a well liked series and it does something moronic, it may grow the numbers for the time it gets massive exposition, but if you keep making everything horrible people will just abandon the series.
This is a very short term strategy. Art becomes a culture icon through uplifting people, not tearing them down.
There’s always something to be angry about, people will move on
Is this dude moronic sure if you do something to anger the fans once a blue moon, I can kinda see were he's coming from but if your gonna do it frequently people will just get tired of it and drop it
I think this has just been kind of a problem with Eggman for a while now. By and large, his character should be on the more goofy end of evil, a maniacal mad scientist with delusions of grandeur that lead him to make bumbling mistakes that then cause his plans to go up in smoke. And aside from a few odd instances, across the games that's been largely consistent. But in Western media like SatAM, Archie, etc., versions of him were made into something more genuinely sinister and threatening. That's been kind of foundational for a lot of fans growing up with those shows and comics, and it ends up clashing really hard when compared with the more comical original version or variants that follow that particular mold. I think Sonic Forces and IDW are just the latest examples of how the contrast between the two doesn't gel all that great unless handled the right way. And Sega and Sonic Team being what they are, they've no real clue how to do that and just leave it to those in charge of those media properties to work it out.
She's also implied to have already survived falling from a great height, being crushed, drowning, and even being sliced vertically by giant blades. In the latter case, she's dodging one in front of her but not noticing the one coming in from behind.
She may not have actually survived. Starline said that they needed to revive them after these accidents and even give them a brainwashing so that they would keep training.
So Surge is tough but she wont regenerate without aid and dying is probably very traumatizing to her.
Unless Starline's continually cloning them at the point where he first acquired them, it seems likely to me that the point was to remove the memory of their latest "death" so they wouldn't freeze up in a similar situation.
That and probably to hide their regenerative abilities so they, rather, so Surge wouldn't take unnecessary risks. She was surprised by not taking damage from that giant Eggbot after all.
Surge was right to be pissed at him. Regardless of her inplanted hatred towards him or not. His moronation is most likely the reason why her and Kit where created. Sonic being dismissive and flat out taunting her doesn't win him any favors either.
They werw created because starline is a dick and rhey themselves likely gave themselves up to him.
The alternative here is to say Sonic commited the come or being born and continuing to exist, which is moronic.
They were created because Starline wanted revenge on Eggman, dumbass. No Sonic = No Eggman = No Impostors. It's the simplest domino effect in the world made for children to understand, but is apparently lost on those so delusional about their cope as yourself.
Sonic was wrong.
>They were created because Starline wanted revenge on Eggman, dumbass.
Starline had the tubes before he even interacted with Zavok. In an alternate timeline where Eggy died, Starline would still be a villain and still be at large.
He doesn't stop existing because Sonic doesn't kill Tinker, and he doesn't stop thr MV from happening by jailing him either.
Blaming Sonic is reach and cope.
Surge was completely correct that Sonic's policies just continue the cycle of suffering, but by virtue of being the only person stopping Robotnik, nobody can really criticize Sonic. If you want Eggman dead, kill him yourself.
>let mr. tinker to get kidnapped >after metal tried to kill everyone, let him go >after eggman tried to kill everyone, let him go
This is what happens when you don't have someone to keep Sonic in line. Amy and israeliteel don't do shit. This isn't the Genesis days anymore. You can't have Sonic's freedom autism run unopposed.
This is the flaw to Sonic's ideology I keep talking about that nobody fricking acknowledges.
Every single time I fricking point out this shit someone will completely disregard the post and ask in bad faith why I want either the comics to "mangle" Sonic's muh freedom shit or why I want Sonic to murder people.
He either needs to learn the lesson and put in a little effort towards the people he gives second chances to, or there should be a pre-existing or new character that takes up that role for him. But you know that if SEGA had the balls to authorize the former that one circlejerk in the fanbase would froth at the mouth because OH GOD OH FRICK FLYNN IS MANGLING SONIC'S CHARACTER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
>Every single time I fricking point out this shit someone will completely disregard the post and ask in bad faith why I want either the comics to "mangle" Sonic's muh freedom shit or why I want Sonic to murder people
This is an emotional reaction to Ian Flynn's moronic decision to be even asking such DUMB questions in what's supposed to be a kid friendly action book.
Nobody wants to question Sonic's moral choices, they just want him to bop Eggman in the noggin!
>He either needs to learn the lesson and put in a little effort towards the people he gives second chances to
Ehh, that would make him closer to his Japanese counterpart, who is as whitebread as all frick, but if it will fulfill the audience's boner for a serious superheroic Sonic, that's one way you can go about it.
> or there should be a pre-existing or new character that takes up that role for him.
Now see, that would've made for a more interesting story. Having Sonic deal with a world that desires another hero. Would he become more lazier, more hard-working, more bitter or more eager to please?
Frick, Imposter Syndrome should've been the second arc following Metal Sonic and should've focused on Starline shilling Surge & Kit to the masses as Sonic & Tails 2.0 like he was doing in the beggining.
If you don't want that, at best you can have the Restoration be more proactive in jailing bad guys that Sonic lets go or worse, Shadow makes a more militant counter-organization to combat Sonic's negligence
Imagine Sonic comics written by Alan Moore or Garth Ennis.
>Imagine Sonic comics written by Alan Moore
Unless it's like Top 10 or Tom Strong, I don't want to. IDW is depression kongas as it is
>Garth Ennis
Ennis would be at that age when he would naturally transfer his disdain for Superheroes into a disdain for video game characters.
Maybe even play around with the whole "Corporate mascot" aspect of Sonic and make him as vain & immature as Homelander or A-Train. Though I'm not sure SEGA would appreciate being compared to Vought-American
>Now see, that would've made for a more interesting story. Having Sonic deal with a world that desires another hero. Would he become more lazier, more hard-working, more bitter or more eager to please? >Frick, Imposter Syndrome should've been the second arc following Metal Sonic and should've focused on Starline shilling Surge & Kit to the masses as Sonic & Tails 2.0 like he was doing in the beggining.
This should be fricking Shadow's job to begin with. Have an arc start out similar to the Unleashed intro with Eggman's fleet in space, but then Shadow shows up to try and put him six feet under. All this happens without Sonic realising and he hunts for the guy while he hunts for Eggman. But they can't do that because Flynn doesn't want to write Shadow to begin with because of the boogeyman mandates, and the idea of 'newly-idolised hero of the masses come to put a permanent stop to our favourite villain' is kind of spoilt by Shadow and Surge both existing and mucking up any potential for the idea
>But they can't do that because Flynn doesn't want to write Shadow to begin with because of the boogeyman mandates,
If I had to write Shadow like a one-note anally retentive stick-in-the-mad, I wouldn't wanna write him either.
>and the idea of 'newly-idolised hero of the masses come to put a permanent stop to our favourite villain' is kind of spoilt by Shadow and Surge both existing and mucking up any potential for the idea
Except one of those ideas is a group of villains masquerading as new heroes sowing seeds of doubts that could cause some minor world building, funny & heartwarming moments & discussion about how people see Sonic & what makes a hero
The other idea is giving the world a murder boner just to justify your fan fiction of wanking off to Edgy the Hedgy. It would be just as superflous and pointless as what Flynn wrote.
...on the other hand, that Shadow idea seems like a good start for Garth Ennis to jump on
>Except one of those ideas is a group of villains masquerading as new heroes sowing seeds of doubts that could cause some minor world building, funny & heartwarming moments & discussion about how people see Sonic & what makes a hero >The other idea is giving the world a murder boner just to justify your fan fiction of wanking off to Edgy the Hedgy. It would be just as superflous and pointless as what Flynn wrote.
Sounds like you have a weird chip on your shoulder, enough to irrationally think the absolute possible best of one scenario and the absolute worst of another because it fits your bias, but that's more a 'you' problem than a Flynn or Sega problem
Why do you dumbasses try to make this about morals? I'm coming at this from a storytelling perspective, one of Sonic's flaws as a character is that he doesn't put in the work to redeem those he extend his kindness to.
It's not me being upset over the character not resembling his characterization in Sonic and the Gaping Glory Hole for the NeoGeo, it's clearly something the comics are portraying as a fault of his character, else he wouldn't have been drawn making villain poses/expressions like he did in Issue 50.
>let mr. tinker to get kidnapped
Starline has the ability to warp wherever he wanted. No amount of security would have stopped him from taking Tinker. >after eggman tried to kill everyone, let him go
Eggman flew away and Shadow failed to capture him.
>and Sonic looked like he was offering a hug
His body language looks so odd in that panel. I guess it's supposed to be like a "come at me bro" gesture? But the smile and the wink confuse me. I've wondered if there was supposed to be a speech bubble where he says something smug, but it ended up missing.
He is literally leaving so slowly they use a second panel to ahow him slowly fricking off. Besides that, Eggman isn't faster when fleeing than a serious Sonic, let alone in his Egg Mobile. Sonic could have caught up to him whenever but didn't because he was literally letting him off the hook to go commit more crimes and plans for mass genocide.
>they use a second panel to ahow him slowly fricking off
Once again you have no indication of how fast his mobile is moving. It's literally a single panel. >Eggman isn't faster when fleeing than a serious Sonic, let alone in his Egg Mobile. >I don't play the games
In Unleashed, his mobile was quick enough to stay ahead of Super Sonic for a good bit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>well you see the way they use conventional time-conveying methods in comics to portray the slow speed of this movement in this comic, doesn't matter actually, they just threw it in for funsies
2 years ago
Anonymous
>conventional time-conveying methods >shit I made up
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean if you don't understand how to parse things like the length of a panel or the amount of interaction going in a panel to convey the relative passage of time, what are you even doing on the comics board? Maybe staring at drywall is more your speed
2 years ago
Anonymous
All I see is you misinterpreting a single panel to follow this narrative of yours despite the clear intention of him flying away in a vehicle that is canonically fast enough to get away from Sonic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>be sonic, the supposedly fastest thing alive >eggman is hovering in his spacecraft and you have a conversation with him >he turns around, folds his arms, literally lounging in his ship, and flies away >meanwhile you are casually walking in his direction >that is the only movement towards him that you will make and at that speed
He couldn't even fake an attempt. Not even to fool everyone into thinking he's not purposely letting Eggman go. And to top it off, Sonic thinks Eggman will see the error of his ways. >b-b-b-but for a brief bit he showed that he missed being mr. tinker
Sonic literally just stopped him from trying to kill everyone at a party, specifically striking because Sonic was gone.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic thinks Eggman will see the error of his ways.
All loving hero.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Aaaaaaaaaaanyday now! He'll suddenly stop trying to kill everyone and just settle down and do the literal exact opposite of what he's done for several years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, its a dumb belief. But its Sonic's.
He's like Shantae. He only sees the good in people.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, very convenient that he doesn't have to suffer the consequences until that happens, right? Who cares if people are getting basically servitorized because of it, they're not his friends.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>be sonic, the supposedly fastest thing alive >alive
Keyword. >eggman is hovering in his spacecraft and you have a conversation with him
A single exchange of dialogue isn't a conversation. >he turns around, folds his arms, literally lounging in his ship, and flies away
Eggman's posture isn't a factor in how fast his eggmobile goes. >meanwhile you are casually walking in his direction >that is the only movement towards him that you will make and at that speed
Because Eggman is already flying away in his 2nd panel. Sonic cannot fly so why pretend that would be effective? >And to top it off, Sonic thinks Eggman will see the error of his ways.
Rather he will or not, Sonic will stop him everytime from doing bad shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic cannot fly
Man, if only Sonic had a way to gain momentum and launch himself into the air. If only he had a lock on attack. But we've never seen Sonic do anything like that...
2 years ago
Anonymous
Eggman is flying up, he's at a much taller altitude than that robot, and at a far greater speed. Nice try.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Eggman is flying up, he's at a much taller altitude than that robot, and at a far greater speed. Nice try.
>But the logistics!!
It's really as simple as Sonic snapping his fingers and saying "Dang!" You don't need to apply realistic logic or advanced choreographing knowledge. If you want to sell it, just make the attempt. Its why Eggman escaping ON FOOT in the original games doesn't upset people: it's 100% a matter of intent and conveying ideas.
People aren't mad that Sonic doesn't catch him. They're mad that he's portrayed as not trying and keeps justifying himself while the story actively acknowledges that this is an irresponsible and ridiculous. The same point about Sonic wanting to see the good in everyone can be made without ever needing to justify itself. It's bad writing that's grasping at themes without considering execution.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you want to sell it, just make the attempt.
He is literally flying away. You guys are only ignoring it so you can be upset.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah.
And Sonic isn't running after him, or jumping, or even -- like I just said -- snapping his fingers and going "Dang!"
He slowly follows while having a conversation and then sighs. Same kind of thing happens a few issues later: the Zeti get loaded up to get flown back to Lost Hex and he just has this long fricking talk with Zavok where he gives a lame justification. The story could have had them sling the zeti in a rocket and have it blast off in two panels for it to be a very decisive, proactive action in the spur of the moment. Sonic could have *JUST BEATEN THEM UP* and the story could leave it there, because the audience doesn't need to know what happened next. The issue, again, is in execution and intent. By having Sonic not actively, quickly attempt things for closure or directly signal to the audience that it's too late in a cathartic manner, you blue ball your readers while also making him look careless rather than spontaneous.
If you don't get why Superman besting Luthor's latest scheme, going for a malt with Jimmy, and then seeing Luthor at it again next issue is satisfying, but Clark watching Lex slowly retreat while moralizing at him is really annoying, I don't know what I can do for you (aside from telling you to please NEVER get into writing). This is a problem with how the scripts are written, not with the ideas at play.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you don't get why Superman besting Luthor's latest scheme, going for a malt with Jimmy, and then seeing Luthor at it again next issue is satisfying
It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era. >but Clark watching Lex slowly retreat while moralizing at him is really annoying
It's annoying because Superman is OP as frick and Lex would have literally no excuse to get away from him short of kryptonite.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era.
It is closer to what Sonic is.
Granted I do not want to see the comic become that dumbed down, but actively taking focus away from the main cast because character development is not possible is stupid.
The compromise is long form self-contained stories.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It is closer to what Sonic is.
No it isn't. Sonic has never once cared about jailing or punishing Eggman beyond busting his latest scheme and mech. Superman actually arrests people and the only reason Lex comes back is because he has the money, contacts, and resources to never stay in jail for any considerable time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you defending IDW Sonic here? Because I kind of agree with you but only because he actually does not care about those things.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not really a defense, I'm just stating the fact that Sonic has never been proactive in stopping Eggman from being a future threat. Whether you like that or not is a different matter.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Aside from the games where he chased after him until he couldn't anymore or blew him up so hard that he was rocket propelled into the distance where Sonic couldn't realistically follow.
Like Sonic 1, 2, 3, K, CD, Adventure, Advance, Advance 2, Rush, Rush Adventure, both Colors, Unleashed, Generations, Lost World and Forces.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Aside from the games where he chased after him until he couldn't anymore or blew him up so hard that he was rocket propelled into the distance where Sonic couldn't realistically follow.
Sonic is the fastest thing alive, there is no distance that he can't "realistically follow". Sonic doesn't actively blow Eggman up to take him out, he destroys the mech that Eggman is operating and the logical consequence is Eggman getting blown up. Once Eggman is rendered harmless, he does not care and that is supported by the times he's had Eggman defenseless right by him and does nothing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The only reason Lex comes back is because readers like Lex. No child reading Superman gives A SINGLE SHIT about how he escaped this time. They don't even care if he goes to jail. They care about the bad guy losing to the good guy and the story being fun.
Undermining your own narrative to tackle basic presumptions inherent to the story structure is the kind of shit Ken Penders did back on Knuckles. It sucked then, it sucks now. You lose nothing by simply scripting these same scenarios slightly differently and gain better reception for your story in return.
What does this comic gain from this
>Eggman flew away and Shadow failed to capture him.
No anon. The time he slowly flew away and Sonic looked like he was offering a hug.
being written as >static statement >smug retort >Sonic casually following as Eggman talks at him >Sonic laments the situation
Vs
>Eggman says the same thing in a panel of his EggMobile blasting up into the sky >"Wait, Eggman!" Hand outstretched. >Same dialogue, except Eggman is drawn zooming out of there >Same ending, dualogue and all
It's literally just less cathartic for no reason. Heroes do that stock "STOP!" for a reason, the alternative is annoying.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I like how you had to backpedal and had to use children as your argument when the only people complaining about this are not children. They might not care about justifications or jail but they also don't care if there are justifications or jail either.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>backpedal
I said children because Superman's target audience in the Otto Binder era being referenced was children. Jesus Christ. You rather I say manchildreb when it's not relevant to the comparison?
Why are you even latching on to that instead of the actual argument? Is it because you have no actual answer for what's gained by not writing the script that way?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I said children because Superman's target audience in the Otto Binder era being referenced was children.
And I said that writing was defunct because children are no longer the sole audience. >Why are you even latching on to that instead of the actual argument?
Your argument is literally that children don't care about justifications or jail so they shouldn't put them in. But children aren't the only audience and like I said, children don't care if there are justifications or jail so using them as an argument is stupid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So you're just going to keep circling around semantics instead of actually answering how the story benefits from refusing to just give readers more cathartic resolutions. Got it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era.
You better tell Topolino and Shonen Jump before they go under, anon. This is dire news for the literal hundreds of comics that still work on an episodic structure and don't waste time on trying to convince their readers that things they would accept by default should be accepted.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Topolino and Shonen Jump >niche foreign comic >a wide variety of manga with the top sellers all being ones that don't do self-contained stories unless they're straight comedies and even then there is continuity
You sure showed me anon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sonic can't be that and it should stop trying.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're right, Disney is niche in Europe and when mention it I DO remember how Arlong Park ended!
>Genzo: "Luffy, get out of the way, we need to go after Arlong's men!" >Luffy: "Actually, it's time for me to start talking about my morals at you. You see, I don't condone murder in any fashion and believe strongly in redemption. Going after Hachi and Chuu right now would deny them their chance to grow as people and redeem themselves."
2 years ago
Anonymous
>that type of comic writing is defunct in this era
Let me fix that for you. >The kind of people who buy American floppies suffer from severe autism and obsess over continuity and text dumps, so quality storytelling is not lucrative in that market.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you want to sell it, just make the attempt.
EXACTLY
Literally every Sonic, even the ones in games would've at least tried.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>even the ones in games would've at least tried
Like in SA2, and in Heroes, and in ShtH, and in Riders, and in literally every game where Sonic doesn't bother to do anything further once the primary threat is dealt with.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>SA2
A great example of why this isn't an iron clad rule and story context matters. Trying to justify and create that scenario at that point would actively make the story worse. Same deal as IDW #5, where Sonic trying to stop Eggman from getting killed is pretty reasonable.
>Heroes
Three other people chase Eggman into the distance in that ending, directly addressing this. Awful example.
>ShtH
The resolution to that situation wasn't even on screen! We have no idea what happened, which ties into the point that not acknowledging is a valid way to end some stories.
>Riders
Yeah, his plan was just to sabotage a race and the audience gets catharsis with hammy ending where he gets an old carpet for his trouble. It cuts there. The audience gets its catharsis and the rest is simply vague because it's unnecessary to that story.
Also you left out like 20 other games, all of which end with Eggmam getting blown away or escaping. Your argument is perched on in-universe logic instead of narrative function.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not him but >Three other people chase Eggman into the distance in that ending, directly addressing this. Awful example.
You're being a fishonest hack here. Sonic runs off well before the Chaotox do this. And they only do so because they want their paycheck. Sonic didnt give a frick about apprehending Eggy. He was like "okay, jobs done, time to go do sometjing else" and ran off to his next adventure. He even just leaves Metal on the ground and welcomes him to try his shit again multille times as many as he desires.
You're grasping hard here. >The resolution to that situation wasn't even on screen!
Play the games instead of talking out your ass. Knuckles is there chasing him while Sonic ignores him because he is too busy looking at thr big rock going boom in the sky and giving Shadow props.
Sonic and crew just laugh at Knuckles comically chasing Eggman. He doesnt take it seriously.
>Yeah, his plan was just to sabotage a race and the audience gets catharsis with hammy ending where he gets an old carpet for his trouble. It cuts there. The audience gets its catharsis and the rest is simply vague because it's unnecessary to that story.
Dishonest hack. He was going to revice an ancient continent to take its tech to take over the world. He even kidnapped Amy. He airboards him, takes the key and just leaves, eggy behind.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Entire point of post is that in-universe logic is secondary to audience catharsis and context of story. >WELL ACTUALLY, GIVEN IN-UNIVERSE LOGIC
You fricking moron.
You have two examples where the resolution is that his buddies take care of it and it's played as a joke and one where the universe pranks his ass. In all three cases it would be weird and deeply unsatisfying if instead Eggman made little attempt to escape and the Heroes just lectured him, not really trying.
I don't know how you can look at this and not understand that writing a flaccid ending is boring and annoying, or why you think critiquing what comes off as a lack of effort on the protagonists part means he must do the same thing every time. What it means is that the alternatives we've been given SUCK and take people out of the story.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think you replied to the wrong post
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Point about narrative payoff is "wrong/dishonest" because order of events, a scene that doesn't actually answer if Sonic eventually joined in or not, and severity of actions taken (aka, in-universe justification instead of whether the audience got their closure).
No, it's replying to the right post.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You went on a schizophrenic side parabl with yourself when i was just correcting your statements because they were full of spin. The concersation has always been about Sonic's own actions in regards to aprehending Eggman or not.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A great example of why this isn't an iron clad rule and story context matters.
He is literally standing on the bridge surrounded by all the heroes after committing acts of terrorism. No context is going to change that Sonic didn't make an attempt. >Three other people chase Eggman into the distance in that ending
For their payment for the job, not to punish or jail him. Sonic had already left before the Chaotix even started to chase him as well. Nice try. >The resolution to that situation wasn't even on screen!
Again, Eggman is literally standing around with all the heroes surrounding him yet it's treated as a silly "Oh you" moment, complete with them providing a laugh track. No context is going to count as Sonic "making an attempt". >Yeah, his plan was just to sabotage a race and the audience gets catharsis with hammy ending where he gets an old carpet for his trouble.
Eggman is publicly hosting a racing tournament and Sonic just plays along. No attempt to capture the guy who has caused trouble over multiple games. >It cuts there.
No it doesn't. It ends with Eggman past out on the floor and everyone just ignores him and leaves. No attempt was made by Sonic. >Also you left out like 20 other games, all of which end with Eggmam getting blown away or escaping.
Where Sonic makes no attempt to do anything after the threat was dealt with. Eggman gets himself blown up because Sonic destroys whatever machine he's in. Eggman escapes and Sonic doesn't make an active effort to pursue him. Game Sonic never makes an attempt to deal with Eggman any more than necessary. >Your argument is perched on in-universe logic instead of narrative function. >Your argument is based on actual facts rather than what you think the intention of the narrative is
Excuse me for not wanting to make shit up.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Okay, got, you are actually incapable of looking at a story in terms of making a satisfying piece of media instead of a very direct reading of the events taking place.
Make sure you leave your complaints for Tex Avery about Road Runner running into paintings. It's highly illogical and inconsistent, what were they thinking?!?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Blah, blah, blah, making shit up to fit your narrative and ignoring what's inconvenient to it. A strategy as old as time.
Having Sally on his dick would just prevent him from ever getting shit done to begin with.
Tinker getting taken away would happen regardless because Starline has a magic portal gun stone.
If Metal wasn't the final trigger, something else would have been.
If Eggman DID dies Starline woulf just try to be the new Eggman in his honor.
Evil will always exist. Blaming Sonic is just an irrational cope and castrating him doesnt solve your problems.
Archie Eggman lost multiple cities and before the reboot he was running on fumes. Reboot Eggman got away because Sonic was busy fighting Dark Gaia. StC Eggman lost multiple times and no longer controlled the world like he did towards the start. IDW Sonic seems to be content with the status quo, very different from his two comic counterparts.
Nah, it's more questioning the narrative choices thst lead us to this point.
You can either have a Sonic that takes Robotnik seriously and Robotnik is a threat, OR you can have a Sonic that basically trolls Eggman and Eggman is a buffoon. But having a Sonic that doesn't take a dangerous Eggman seriously just makes Sonic look like a jerk, especially in a setting where no one rlse can even touch Eggman. It makes every other character pawns in a pissfight between two Gods
People don't want to be mocked for reading a Kid's comic, so it has to be dark, edgy and subversive to try and justify their post-modern interest; this is despite the fact they'd be mocked anyway because it's a fricking Sonic comic.
>People don't want to be mocked for reading a comic, so it has to be dark, edgy and subversive to try and justify their post-modern interest; this is despite the fact they'd be mocked anyway because it's a fricking comic.
tale as old as time
The autists are crying for blood because the comic keeps navel gazing and Sonic keeps giving shitty speeches on morality. Nobody cares. Just let him be a bit bummed things didn't work out sometimes and leave it at that.
We don't need justifications for why Sonic doesn't kill Eggman. Just have Eggman succeed in escaping.
>Nobody talks about the actual stories
There have been several threads talking about Surge/Kit, Starline, and the confrontation between Sonic and Surge. The only stories no one talks about are Evan's.
In fact, if anything, it's a testament to how much of a hit Surge was if there's been regular sonic discussion threads nowadays. This certainly wasn't the norm before Impostor Syndrome came along.
I'm not sure that's a good thing, because a lot of it's been how disappointing Surge has been compared to what she could have been.
2 years ago
Anonymous
While it's true her fist fight was disappointing, this is literally her first fight. She's not going to suddenly disappear, not when Starline stuck around all the way until now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm talking about
-The fact she didn't do anything worthwhile prior to discovering Starline had made her backstory up
-The fact she didn't have any run ins with Sonic and friends prior to the aforementioned discovery and fighting using her crafted character
-The fact her plot to betray Starline never even came close to happening
-The fact she doesn't seem particularly troubled over her actual history as opposed to just being mad at the whole world.
-And yes her disappointing first fight that didn't even give Sonic a real challenge outside of words.
Surge has been failing to deliver on all fronts but selling on her punk personality.
>Nobody talked about the D6 story or the Metal Virus aside from "WHY IS IT SO LONG AND WHY DOES NOTHING HAPPEN."
Either disingenuous or non-lurker. People talked about things in that arc than just how long it was.
Not entirely accurate, I remember people theorizing that the follow up story would be about the people having lost faith in Sonic since the entire thing was technically his fault for not killing Eggman, based on that unhappy Cream panel.
Then everything was fine as if nothing had happened.
2 years ago
Anonymous
By that same logic, people still talk about TBF because of Amy's card reading we never see.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You mean her prediction that Tangle and Whisper were mandated by destiny to end up scissoring?
>character challenges Sonic's philosophy in an issue >Why are people talking about philosophy???
I'm certain there'll be plenty of non-philosophical discussion once surge gives whisper an electroshock therapy, but until then, this is what we'll talk about.
That's strawman moronation. Nobody really wants Sonic to kill all his enemies, they want him to be empathetic and take accountability, to think about all the people his villains will hurt because he wants to play games, knowing full well there's no way someone like Eggman can be redeemed. Literally all he has to do is not stare at them as they run away from the scene of their destruction. He doesn't even have to catch anyone. It's such a low bar to clear.
# >want him to be empathetic and take accountability
So they want him to be OoC. And seemingly only because this time he is against their precious waifu.
Sonic was already plenty empathetic during the fight. Anything more goes into basically wanting Sonic to kneel and beg for forgiveness like a b***h or something and then beat himself up about it like a sadsack loser.
Tinker was a special case, from Sonic's perspective he didn't really count as Eggman and didn't want essentially an innocent man murdered. If Shadow wants normal Eggman dead so bad he could literally teleport to his bedroom and snap his neck practically any time, it's not like he fricking does anything besides brood nowadays.
Because Sonic will literally stop anyone who attempts to? Did you literally miss the part where he flat-out says as much to Surge and stopped Shadow from offing Tinker and avoiding the entire Metal Virus plot?
>Surge is angry, and she’s about to make it everyone’s problem… At least everyone in Central City. Sonic’s friends race to stop her rampage, but there’s something different about her. Something…more powerful.
Just what kind of powerup would allow Surge to suddenly be a threat to the Sonic team
I *hope* that its because, as an original character, there arent any mandates stopping her from being thrown into the ground, so it allows Surge to have an fight without being forced to job because >muh hecking brand
He only lets him go because he's literally programmed to never put a shot through his head, though it came pretty close in MM7. Sonic just doesn't want to lose his favorite playtime partner.
>3
Wily appears to fricking die. >4
Wily escapes via trickery. >5
Wily escapes by pure chance. >6
Wily is arrested. >7
Bass saves Wily. >8
Evil Energy bullshit gives Wily a chance to bolt.
It's not that, it's that Eggman came exceedingly close to causing a complete extinction event and no one even attempted to give him jail time.
After the zombot fiasco every nation on Earth would realistically be trying to take him out.
They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
I mean, has he ever not done that?
Plus as we see in like every incarnation, Eggman is incredibly competent against every other threat against him, it's literally just Sonic he has trouble with, chances are he's well protected and knows when/how to keep himself safe
In the games, he basically made a Death Star that never worked, unleashed a bunch of ancient forces he desperately tried to contain once they got out of hand, and after that did mostly goofy shit like making an outer space amusement park. In general, he wanted to conquer the world, not destroy it, and fought alongside the goodies whenever a baddie rose up that could.
Zombots, he gleefully spread a plague that he never even BEGAN to have a plan to control and only worked against it when the Zeti got involved. Even for Eggman, it was a sloppy, unnecessarily destructive plan that made no sense. It would catapult him from being a nuisance to the world to public ebemy number one.
>all governments try to take down Eggman
>he has an army of robots, worker robots that can build almost anything and don't need pay or rest as long as they get energy
Eggman could take over the world at any time. He is just cares more about his own ego and wants to do it in a complicated way. If he wanted to he could just mass produce nukes while stockpiling on anti nuke tech.
>Homestuck
HEY
>Zombots, he gleefully spread a plague that he never even BEGAN to have a plan to control and only worked against it when the Zeti got involved.
This is the result of sloppy reading. Eggman had control of the zombots from the beginning. It was only after spreading that it started to mutate and he lost control. He would later fix that but it was immediately broken by Sonic. Then Starline got impatient and fricked up everything.
He did not care when he lost control though.
Yes he did, he was just not panicking about it as much as Starline was because he was confidant he could fix it, which they did.
He discovered that all the Zombots will degrade and melt in like 200 years, when the virus itself breaks down. His plan was to simply leave the planet until it's safe to go back.
Anon you do realize he would be dead by that point right?
Doesn't rule out the possibly that Eggman can easily transfer his consciousness to a computer, or make himself immortal through ancient magical bullshittery.
>Doesn't rule out the possibly that Eggman can easily transfer his consciousness to a computer
Then he wouldn't need to worry about the virus.
>or make himself immortal through ancient magical bullshittery
Then losing a planet or two shouldn't matter to him.
>because he was confidant he could fix it
He didn't care about anything.
He was going to just leave the planet because apparently that's something he can do but won't because it's more fun to start grey goo scenarios.
Children's video game villain.
>He didn't care about anything.
Yes he did and he already said he would fix it. Just because he wasn't losing his head over it doesn't mean he didn't care.
>He was going to just leave the planet
Which would have been unnecessary because it takes hundreds of years for the virus to break down.
>He would later fix that
No he didn't. Starline did. Before and after that, Eggman was perfectly fine letting it run wild and coming up with a way to control them later. That is literally why Starline went to the zeti. His constant nagging went nowhere with Eggman.
>No he didn't. Starline did.
They both did, they were going through frequencies to control the zombots and then Sonic came in and Eggman was busy fighting him while Starline eventually found the right frequency, something that would had happened anyway if Sonic hadn't interrupted. Starline didn't do it on his own nor did he come up with a new way to do it, they were literally in the middle of doing what Eggman said he would do.
Starline's issue was that Eggman didn't plan to lose control beforehand because he's so obsessed with perfection, which just goes back to his fatal flaw of not being able to adapt when shit goes wrong. It's why despite all his failures Eggman bounces back while Starline dies.
While i agree on what you posted, the thing with eggman is he's practically unbeatable, for everyone that is not sonic and a couple of his friends
I mean even in forces which is supposed the animal humanoids earth, the dude practically wiped everything in the world, including G. U. N. (we know this thanks to tails tube, so i guess they exist on both earths)
Is much worse if you acknowledge the two worlds things because eggman in the human world has taken earth hostage with the eclipse canon in adventure 2, broke the earth with one of his lasers, and released an elder god of darkness in Unleashed, the dude is not only a powerhouse but a brilliant genious with more advance tech than the earth. He has an army capable or conquering the earth, an thanks to his supplies of working robots he can build anything as he pleases, i doubt resources are a problem to him, he just can take them.
The thing with eggman is the same problem of why batman can kill the joker.
Batman and sonic in terms or morality can kill then to have the lesser evil.
But both are vigilantes with no power over laws on the earth. For them, they could do it, but is not exactly their job to do it.
People always think might makes right, but people tend to forget batman even as a vigilante have rules, about what he can do, even without the joker in particular.
The same with sonic, he lives by his own rules, and in his special case, he does things for the thrill of it. With sonic special case he doesn't even see himself as a good guy, he likes freedom above all else, killing an individual, (that is not an elder eldritch god capable of destroying time and space) is take people own choices and their own freedom, for him people can do as they please as long they don't try to take someone else's and if you try to do it, he will take action to stop it. Yeah sonic could kill eggman if he wanted, but why would he do it? Eggman does shit and he still stop him anyway, his his hobby to stop eggman.
Yeah the dude practically yield the whole world(s) more than once, eggman is a goofy villain but people tend to forget he is an incredible and really evil motherfricker. Even of he does things for fun like bulding deathly themeparks. How can nations fight a guy who could actually prove he can destroy everything if he wanted?
People think having powers automatically make you a hero, and that's a really wrong way of thinking, you can be a villian or an butthole with superpowers, being a hero is an ideology, and an archetype of someone extremely virtuous and selfless.
The thing with morality is every individual has his own sense of it, something i think is wrong for other people maybe is right.
Is a place with a lot of gray in the area.
Maybe for a lot of people killing eggman is a right thing to do, but i doubt sonic could do such choice, is more obvious if you see his way to see life, the guy loves adventures, that's it.
If let's say GUN succeeded taking down eggman sonic would be fine with it, but not by his own hands.
People tend to forget is not that easy to kill too. Is easy to have an opinion when you aren't the one who's gonna take action.
The two world thing was changed its just one planet now with furies on islands and humans on continents.
This makes things worse because if it's just one world, eggman have successfully take earth hostage at least 3 times.
I see some post about sonic throwing eggman in jail but thi guy is right
every time sonic stops eggman eggman just escapes once again
People forgot too when the village encounter eggman fainted as mr tinker, they actually throw him into jail but the guy is so smart he even escaped just to fix his cell.
Gun, wasn't there because eggman practically destroyed them and the whole world.
>They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
This honestly. It's one thing for Eggy to try and kill Sonic and friends, that's bad enough. It's another thing when he tries to wipe out all life on the planet and convert the people of the world into his mindless slaves.
Eggman should be a bad guy that wants to conquer the world/universe but even he should have limits on the kind of shit he'd do to achieve that goal. He shouldn't be a complete monster, otherwise you get people asking why Sonic hasn't killed the guy yet.
IDW reference the games like it happened and in the majority of games he is an accomplice or is conspiring to genociding mankind.
Dark Gaia was the one that wanted to kill everything, Eggy just wanted to use it to beat Sonic and conquer the world.
And I know Eggman cracks the world apart in the beginning of the game but I honestly just pretend that didn't happen, it's way too evil for Eggman to just kill millions of people like that when he never even used the Eclipse Cannon to wipe out a single city,
Sonic fights Eggman the first time after trying to reason with him and Eggman only escapes because Starline warps them out.
The second time they were all stuck on Angel Island and Eggman was helping them stop the Metal Virus and the Deadly Six
Eggman literally tried to blow up Station Square with a nuke in the first Adventure. The people were just lucky that it was a dud.
Oh yeah, I actually forgot about that. Kek.
Well, even so, I prefer an Eggman that's a legit threat that wants to conquer everything without filling graveyards doing it.
how do you expect anyone to conquer the world without killing millions ? even the most generous characterization of that ambition would still be someone worth killing
>Oh yeah, I actually forgot about that.
A common occurrence here. People need to play the games more.
>I prefer an Eggman that's a legit threat that wants to conquer everything without filling graveyards doing it.
That's just Dr. Wily.
I liked that contrast between Wily and Eggman in the Archie crossover. Wily wanted to prove his way was better and humble Light while Eggman just wanted to rub out a threat.
>And I know Eggman cracks the world apart in the beginning of the game but I honestly just pretend that didn't happen, it's way too evil
If you're discussing what Eggman is capable of and what's OOC for him, it seems a bit questionable to pretend that the parts that contradict your argument just don't exist.
I do feel that after the zombot disaster, the characters of the IDW universe should be really fricking pissed off with Eggman. Everyone was affected by what he did and they all went through horribly traumatic experiences. However, I still feel like it's in-character for Eggman to try to pull off a dangerous villain plan that turns out to be beyond his control and ends up backfiring with catastrophic consequences.
>And I know Eggman cracks the world apart in the beginning of the game but I honestly just pretend that didn't happen, it's way too evil for Eggman to just kill millions of people like that when he never even used the Eclipse Cannon to wipe out a single city,
To be fair it's never really shown to do that much damage to people. I think it's treated mostly as a "oh no, it's hard to go other places now and there's heartless everywhere now playing tedious jazz music" and not really an actual, serious threat you're meant to see as truly heinous. Just saturday morning cartoon shit, as usual.
my two cents is that Eggman is evil but he wants to be more entertained and worshipped than just kill everyone
he wants his mustache around the entire planet so people can see it all the time, and if theres no planet or people to see the mustache, then whats the point?
>It's not that, it's that Eggman came exceedingly close to causing a complete extinction event and no one even attempted to give him jail time.
Sonic isn't the fricking cops. He is just some dude. You people act likr the cast are the fricking justice league when they aren't.
>They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
Thats a completely seperate conversation that has nothing to do with Sonic's actual decisions and morality.
>They went too dark too fast and now want Eggman to go back to goofy villain shenanigans
Even during the Zombot Arc he's a million times goofier than SA2 Eggman, he's just also more unhinged.
Agreed, this is something more fitting for Robotnik from Satam to be honest.
This is the exact problem.
SatAM Robotnik worked because the ultimate goal of Sonic and the freedom fighters was to kill or capture Robotnik. Sonic was driven and largely responsible as a result.
Combining an Eggman THAT threatening with a Sonic that literally doesn't even try to imprison him doesn't work.
You can have a light-hearted Eggman and light-hearted Sonic, serious Eggman and serious Sonic, but serious Eggman and light-hearted Sonic makes Sonic just look frivolous
>y'all
Sanic could at least jail Eggyboy
This. Sonic sees Eggman TWICE since the zombot fiasco, and just lets him go each time.
Don't kill him, fine, but at least toss him in the clink for a while, frick.
Surge is right, though. Literally her entire suffering is because Sonic refused to get rid of his enemies. And not only that, he won't even let her have her righteous revenge.
>you can't kill the guy who hypnotized, tortured, experimented and brainwashed you!!!!!! that's bad!!!!!
You can't blame sonic for eggman and dr starline actions, they did things by their own wills.
Sonic just was just there to blew their plans every time.
You literally can - sonic not only repaired but let Metal Sonic go, which resulted in Eggman becoming Mr.Tinker, which resulted in Starline getting the boot and starting his plan to make Surge and Kitsunami
Not only that, but he also said he wasn't going to let her "take their freedom"
>Eggman becoming mr tinker
I mean Mr Tinker becoming Eggman, Metal Sonic reawakened his Robotnik memories
Which wouldn't have worked if Starline didnt prep him first. Metal was just a convenient last trigger.
Sonic is not at fault for not being psychic and knowing a psycho duck with cracked portal gun gem could instantly find him and hypnotherapy him into Eggman again. And even then, Starline would still do his frickshit regardless.
Like demonstrated in SA1 getting her revenge won't make her feel better. Also she wanted to kill everyone on the planet because of her angst so she loses a bit of moral high ground there.
No she isn't. Starline would still do his shit regardless and Surge herself basically throws her old life away saying it probably sucked whennshe fights Sonic. She is just mentslly ill and makinf excuses for herself to justify her irrational Sonic hateboner.
No Starline wouldn't you coping idiot. Starline only did that shit as his plot to get revenge on Eggman for breaking up with him. Without Sonci protecting Eggman from death there would be no Eggman at all. You seething about your self-insert being a moron does not make the arguments brought against him "irrational", it makes you a pathetic manbaby.
People tend to forget even if sonic is capable to stop eggman, eggman, is smart enough to escape from sonic every time.
Even sonic can't exactly catch him, just temporary stop him.
>Sonic doesn't want to kill Eggman just because he really doesn't want to.
>Eggman doesn't kill Sonic because his life would be boring without him.
It's so hard to understand this? also if someone really wanted to kill eggman they would have done it themselves or created security protocols against eggman, sonic is not anyone's babysitter.
Eggman doesn't kill Sonic (now) because he wants to do it in an particular, special way, he said it in the comic that he could very well just carpet bomb the whole region to kill him, but that wouldn't be "beating him"
>sonic is not anyone's babysitter.
Ok, he's practically Tails' babysitter, but that's the exception and not the rule.
Honestly, this fact alone is why I hope Ian is taking notes about the "Robotnik adopts tails as his son" youtube poop meme
I mean, think about it: it both solves the "why doesn't Sonic just kil Eggman?" question (because then tails would inherit the entire criminal empire) and ALSO manages to make EVERYONE fricking salty as frick
Sonic is salty because his buddy is no longer there for tech support, starline is salty because eggman literally gives tails more attention than he ever did to him, the fricking clownbot is salty for almsot the exact same reason, tails is salty because eggman gets to call him out on beign sonic's little b***h and basically havign a breakdown when he disapeared in Forces and basically go "son, your literally one bad day away from being eggman 2.0 just fricking own it", Eggman can be salty over something like GUN putting tails on a global wanted list just for being his adopted son
Tails is too loyal to sonic to side with eggman, he seethed when sonic was just taken advice from ivo in lost world.
And we are talking about tails a guy so loyal to sonic he broke in the most secure jail facility in the world, and became a high level criminal himself just ti save his buddy, because he believes in him at 100%
>a guy so loyal to sonic he broke in the most secure jail facility in the world, and became a high level criminal himself just ti save his buddy, because he believes in him at 100%
Tails is a gigaCHAD.
That's why people were so upset about sonic forces, like if tails forgot how much of a chad he became after sonic aventure 1 and 2 in terms of character development.
Yeah, Forces really dropped the ball there. Tails is more than capable of fighting on his own, he fought and beat Eggman more than once for crying out loud. The little guy is a galaxy-brain genius capable of keeping up with Sonic. He wouldn't have a mental breakdown if Sonic got captured, he'd just break out the Cyclone and go John Rambo mode again.
This in SA2 when he thought Eggman killed Sonic he got his shit together and took Eggman down and hard honestly hate how Sega ruined Tails.
And then he gets all depressed after his adrenaline rush and he has to sit with the fact sonic is gone.
For 1) Sega would never allow this (which ties into 2) at all and 2) Ian wouldn't care because of the fact that he's not allowed to do anything creative with the characters nor is he the one heading the books, now. Evan is.
>Ian wouldn't care because of the fact that he's not allowed to do anything creative with the characters
Oh sure, that's the reason
>he's practically Tails' babysitter
Tail likes to be naked, Sonic has no choice but to take care of her.
>That subtle blush from Knuckles
What’s he thinking here?
Knuckles: Tails is a girl?
>Wow, didn’t know Tails had a hot big sis
>Sorry tails, but I hate women, smell ya later!
>*runs away never to be seen again*
Eggman and Sonic are practically meant for each other: two halves of the same coin.
They're the two most powerful individuals in their world, able to change the course of events through their whims...but they're also mostly manchildren who don't want to grow up and assume responsibilities for their actions
>Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick.
See, this is what I think is the issue.
Sonic may do heroic deeds, but I'm not 100% sure he may be a hero (at least in the capeshit sense). He does the right thing because most of the time, he feels like it.
Sonic's is an adventurer, a thrill seeker. He saves the day for the lulz, not for a higher purpose.
Ironically, only Fleetway the Jerkhog is commited to being Mobius's champion. Maybe even Movie Sonic.
Wrong, Shadow is the most power life form.
Tell Shadow he's FRICKING NEXT.
You can't even fricking find him.
So is shadow actually faster than sonic? Does he make sonic completely redundant power wise? Is that why he is a moron now?
Shadow isn't PHYSICALLY faster than Sonic outside of reflexes, but he has short-range teleportation and rocket shoes that puts him on equal footing with Sonic. He's physically stronger than Sonic is though, which combined with his teleportation make him a force to be reckoned with, or at least they should.
>has short-range teleportation and rocket shoes that puts him on equal footing with Sonic.
Headcanon nonsense. They are on par in all regards.
Im talking about the one we never see because it caught on fire.
>Im talking about the one we never see because it caught on fire.
I took it as read that it was either intended as foreshadowing the forest fire being her fault, or that she'd have an unhappy future.
Movie Sonic is definitely about on par with Fleetway in terms of heroism and taking his job (well, eventual job) seriously. He literally opened by trying to cave in Robotnik's skull in the second movie and only failed because Knuckles was there. Then he pushed him to his death at the end.
I think if anything, Movie is MORE brutal than Fleetway is. Fleetway is committed, but he just jails Robotnik because he still has lingering hope of bringing back Kintobor. Movie outright attempts to off his twice to get rid of the threat entirely.
>They're the two most powerful individuals in their world, able to change the course of events through their whims...but they're also mostly manchildren who don't want to grow up and assume responsibilities for their actions
Basically
Eggman would definitely kill sonic given the chance but he's too much an idiot with a flair for the dramatic to just do it and gives sonic opportunities to escape and turn the tables.
Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick. Several times Eggman has threatened the world (the Zombot incident being bad enough to prompt Silver to travel back to the past again) and Sonic's only reaction is catch and release and then sit around with his gloved thumb up his ass until Eggman comes back again. Throwing Eggman in jail wouldn't be a permanent solution but it's better than doing nothing at all.
But anon, if hero kill villain, no can use villain no more. Have make new villain, and make new villain am haaaaaaaard :~~*. Much better to reuse old villain over and over again, even if make hero look bad. Change baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Same old storyline over and over again very much super duper good.
You could avoid this problem by giving Sonic a larger rogues gallery to cycle through. So far IDW has only has Eggman, Lesser Eggman, and the fricking Zeti.
>but what about Clutch?
What ABOUT Clutch? He's a small time crime lord and the fact that Rough and Tumble are henching for him proves it.
Anon, comic book am pretty picture to keep small people busy so big people can do big people things. No need try hard, small people easier to please than angry computer people.
Naugus sucked
Every Archie Sonic villain that wasn't Eggman fricking sucked
What about Ixis Naugus or Mammoth Mogul? What was wrong with them?
Both just really boring, especially when Naugus gets rapped up in politics I don't know what the frick they were thinking there
Imagine not liking Mogul, Enerjak or A.D.A.M.
>immediately resolves a bunch of plot hooks that Ken Penders left behind
>orchestrates the creation of the seven chaos emeralds and the special zone
>forces a shit OC who would've lived on in mediocrity and taking of page space to heroically sacrifice himself instead
What's not to love about A.D.A.M.?
I don't remember A.D.A.M.
You're all forgetting the REAL best villain.
>wasted Locke
>wasted 90% of Eggman's base
>wasted the Echidnas
>gave the dingos the boot
Finitevus won so hard that even his loses swung n his favor eventually.
>Because I'd expect Sonic to be more proactive in his hero schtick.
Then you fundementally do not get Sonic as a character. He isn't a hero/protector of earth like Supes. Soniv is just some fricker with superspeed that happens to have the the power to stop bad shit from happening when it comes his way or he happens to see it. His main goals in life are just having fun and going on thrilling adventures, seeing everything the world has to offer before he inevitably dies of old age or grtting himself killed in his thrillseeking, because life is short.
That sounds bland as frick and really questionable for a protagonist. If that's how japaneses want to portray him, then I'm fine with Sonic on other reincarnations.
>That sounds bland as frick and really questionable for a protagonist.
That's just how Sonic is. It's fine that you don't like it but don't act like it's OOC.
>That sounds bland as frick
You're an idiot lol. Thats wya more originsl than generic muh justice hero character "stop, evildooer!!" Protag number 46'853.
>questionable for a protagonist.
You are why American media is dogshit these days. You unorinically believe a protagonist can only be a specific way and have specific morals and dispositions.
Sonic is not and never has been a conventional hero. And thats based because it means we can explore shit rather than go over worn ground.
>That sounds bland as frick and really questionable for a protagonist
Reminder that protagonist =/= hero. They can be as heroic or anti-heroic as it pleases them. It just means they are the main character.
Sonic is just a protag from an ongoing Japanese series where they repeat the same enjoyable formula ad naseum but change things around to match changing trends (see: Lupin the 3rd, Ash in Pokemon, Detective Conan, Doraemon, and yes, fricking Goku)
>If that's how japaneses want to portray him
believe it or not, Japanese Sonic is even more blander than American Sonic and as morally questionable as 50+ yr old manbaby monkey man. But ultimately, he's a big ol teddy bear of high morality.
American Sonic adds up the edge a bit with quips, sarcasm & memes.
AoSTH Sonic is a goofy meddler who's close to Game Sonic.
SatAM/Archie Sonic is a child soldier who wants to win a war to get into Sally's non existent pants.
OVA Sonic seems like a hero for hire that only saves the day to get into Sarah's pants.
X Sonic is Game Sonic until he goes gay for Chris. Then he becomes a lazy bum.
Boom Sonic IS a lazy bum, but his battles is more about shooing Eggman off town
Movie Sonic wants to be a hero cuz he's a Barrygay (plus owl mom trauma)
>The compromise is long form self-contained stories.
THIS
I am the mandates fan everyone hates bro. Be careful when agreeing with me.
>Japanese Sonic is even more blander than American Sonic
Nice joke.
American Sonic is just "fast wienery and likes shitty fast food.character"
I get all that. I really do.
But in this comic, Sonic is portrayed as the only person that can stop Eggman, and the only person that goes out of his way to stop others from killing/confining Eggman.
You're right--he's not meant to be Superman. He's acting more like a badly written Batman.
>the only person that goes out of his way to stop others from killing/confining Eggman.
Literally only time was when he was Mr. Tinker and the Chaotix and Rouge agreed with him.
>b-but Surge
Surge threatened not only the doctors, but Sonic, his friends, and regular people in the world. He said he wasn't going to let her hurt anyone, not specifically Starline and Eggman.
>Sonic is portrayed as the only person that can stop Eggman, and the only person that goes out of his way to stop others from killing/confining Eggman.
You made this up. Sonic doesn't care if you jail him. He just isn't gonna do it himself because its not his fricking job and he has more important shit to do with his life. Sonic protected Tibkee because he saw Tinker as his own person and an innocent.
>phoneposter
Always knew you were a Cinemaphiletard
Then Sonic is just as much of a terror as Eggman and should be killed or tossed into a blackhole side-by-side with the man to free the world from being shackled to their madness. That is all this "muh freedom" autism of an argument leads to.
Chz
Ok first of all who is saying to kill surge and the metal virus saga ironically prove sonic wrong for sparing eggman
This is dumb because no a single innocent died in any of those crisis. Sonic can get away with lesser consequences every time.
This just comes off like the Ratchet movie where they both quote the billions of inhabitants of a destroyed planet and then have a main character go "no-one was killed or injured" to try and shift the guilt off another character's back
I can never understand how people imagine eggman to be silly and innocent.
AOSTH ruined a large percentage of the fandom’s view.
>AOSTH helped adjusted a large percentage of the fandom’s view.
FTFY
>Don't look at me officer. I only like the games and the funny media,
Carry on citizen.
Because he is silly.
This is a man who built a giant warship but made sure to include an indoor pool.
And it was still a warship, you dumbass.
The origi al Genesis games had him waddle at hypersonic speed for fear of Sonic kicking his butt, and when all the Chaos Emeralds are collected, he stomps impotently
He's not quite Cortex "Doesn't even want to be here" harmless, but he's been a big ol manbaby forever.
He's pretty silly in all but a few games. It's always either Elmer/Bugs style feuding or him enacting a plan that MIGHT kill everyone but he's too hasty and egocentric to be cautious.
That and his ultimate goal being to turn the world into a theme park.
I assume op probably knows this but it's the fact that he lets eggman go, not just having eggman get away like dr wily in mega man, but this also being acknowledged by the story
He ends up feeling like Goku as the all-powerful protag that won't ever properly lose so he can do what he wants, but debatably worse since at least when goku spared vegeta he knew this wasn't the right thing to do but just wanted to fight him again
I think the actual biggest issue is that if sonic realises letting eggman go is wrong it will probably just end up with eggman in jail than escaping, so it won't feel like much progress will be made
>He ends up feeling like Goku
So working as intended?
Sonic is dumb when it has serious storytelling. I don't know how anyone over 12 likes it.
>Sonic is dumb when it has serious storytelling. I don't know how anyone over 12 likes it.
this is the secret conundrum that lurks in the hearts of every Sonic fan.
Even you. Even me
What is it about this blue rat that appeals to anyone outside it's target demo? and why can't we escape his grasp
>What is it about this blue rat that appeals to anyone outside it's target demo? and why can't we escape his grasp
The answer is always autism
Don't look at me officer. I only like the games and the funny media, I have always found the serious anime melodrama stuff boring and homosexual.
Actually it was Starline's plan for her to pretend to be the good guy after they beat Eggman into loving and affirming Starline's life choices.
Yes, Starline's. By the time that Impostor Syndrome ended (before their fight), Surge had decided that she wasn't having any of this garbage and decided she'd rather just burn it all down with Kit.
This was such a stupid plan, I'm almost happy it never even came close to happening.
It's the same reason Mario doesn't kill Bowser, it's a company brand. If you kill of established characters, it costs too much money to bother coming up with new characters and world building. SEGA is too small of a company to afford it, prease understando.
The difference is that bowser is just some weirdo who repeatedly kidnaps peach but never actually does anything to harm her, whereas Eggman in this comic has literally caused an zombie apocalypse.
And this is not an SEGA thing, because Archie and Fleetway sonic repeatedly jailed Eggman. Even if he escapes, just letting him go is outright moronic.
Bowser has tried to take over the world and the universe.
Believe it or not but kidnapping people is a valid reason to gat a foo'
Bowser was at his worst in Galaxy/Galaxy 2, but he didnt attempt to commit universal genocide until he was at his very last rope. In general, hes often OPPOSED to threats trying to destory the entire universe.
In comparison, Eggman is the type of guy who wonders exactly how and most optimally he can exploit Hell for infinite hot water.
Ian's hairdresser told me in a podcast from light in a window that it's an IDW mandate to not have cops. They only allowed the prison because it was a mini and all the staff were busy quitting at the time.
>The difference is that bowser is just some weirdo who repeatedly kidnaps peach but never actually does anything to harm her, whereas Eggman in this comic has literally caused an zombie apocalypse.
I like how you ignored the part where Eggman constantly tries to kill the heroes with robots.
terrifyin innit
>posting the Mario rip-off redesign
Ya hear that boys?! He called you a bunch of pussies!
GIT IM!!
i'dont get it.
Browser is not comparable to eggman.
Eggman is practically a force of nature, if sonic is the agent of chaos, eggman is the icon of oppression and tyranny
My dude, Bowser's repeatedly successfully taken over the Mushroom Kingdom and in the Galaxy games threatens everything, everywhere in a bid to remake reality in his image.
>After the zombot fiasco every nation on Earth would realistically be trying to take him out.
>Earth
>Everyone is busy rebuilding their homes to take him on.
I just don't like the anti-prison sentiment because Sonic never gave a crap whether his foes were left free or not.
>I just don't like the anti-prison sentiment
There is none because people have been jailed.
>Zavok gets whooped the first time
>Jailed
>Zavok gets helped to escape
>Gets whooped again, this time with a technology that quickly defeats him
>Sent back to Lost Hex where he will not be monitored and he promises to return and do more damage.
IDW preaches the soft on crime policy.
gets helped to escape
This is the important part because they would have been stuck there otherwise.
Because we're adult enough to want gritty adult themes but still childish enough to read and enjoy Sonic, so we can't comprehend the immaturity of our supposed 'mature' takes on things.
YOU'RE
TOO
SLOW
Dance puppets, dance.
This is basically peak "executive" intelligence. Take a look at modern sale numbers and you'll see this is a complete lie.
Sure, if you have a well liked series and it does something moronic, it may grow the numbers for the time it gets massive exposition, but if you keep making everything horrible people will just abandon the series.
It's also proof Tom Brievroot is an idiot
This is a very short term strategy. Art becomes a culture icon through uplifting people, not tearing them down.
There’s always something to be angry about, people will move on
Is this dude moronic sure if you do something to anger the fans once a blue moon, I can kinda see were he's coming from but if your gonna do it frequently people will just get tired of it and drop it
I think this has just been kind of a problem with Eggman for a while now. By and large, his character should be on the more goofy end of evil, a maniacal mad scientist with delusions of grandeur that lead him to make bumbling mistakes that then cause his plans to go up in smoke. And aside from a few odd instances, across the games that's been largely consistent. But in Western media like SatAM, Archie, etc., versions of him were made into something more genuinely sinister and threatening. That's been kind of foundational for a lot of fans growing up with those shows and comics, and it ends up clashing really hard when compared with the more comical original version or variants that follow that particular mold. I think Sonic Forces and IDW are just the latest examples of how the contrast between the two doesn't gel all that great unless handled the right way. And Sega and Sonic Team being what they are, they've no real clue how to do that and just leave it to those in charge of those media properties to work it out.
This is a good point.
And it worked in those settings because Sonic was determined to kill or at the very least capture Eggman.
Cimbining the American brutality of Robotnik with the lackadaisical appraoch of gane Sonic just makes game Sonic come across as incompetent
Decent chance Surge gets up from that anyway though.
She survived getting impaled, so yes. Chances are, she and Kit are probably near immortal. Metal virus zombies were stupidly tough.
She's also implied to have already survived falling from a great height, being crushed, drowning, and even being sliced vertically by giant blades. In the latter case, she's dodging one in front of her but not noticing the one coming in from behind.
She didn't survive those incidents. Starline had to Frankenstein her back to life. We don't know the limits of her regeneration yet
She may not have actually survived. Starline said that they needed to revive them after these accidents and even give them a brainwashing so that they would keep training.
So Surge is tough but she wont regenerate without aid and dying is probably very traumatizing to her.
Unless Starline's continually cloning them at the point where he first acquired them, it seems likely to me that the point was to remove the memory of their latest "death" so they wouldn't freeze up in a similar situation.
That and probably to hide their regenerative abilities so they, rather, so Surge wouldn't take unnecessary risks. She was surprised by not taking damage from that giant Eggbot after all.
is she getting up from my raping her
because you homosexuals keep taking the bait.
Draw Vector
Ah so he’s an MCU hero now.
Surge was right to be pissed at him. Regardless of her inplanted hatred towards him or not. His moronation is most likely the reason why her and Kit where created. Sonic being dismissive and flat out taunting her doesn't win him any favors either.
They werw created because starline is a dick and rhey themselves likely gave themselves up to him.
The alternative here is to say Sonic commited the come or being born and continuing to exist, which is moronic.
They were created because Starline wanted revenge on Eggman, dumbass. No Sonic = No Eggman = No Impostors. It's the simplest domino effect in the world made for children to understand, but is apparently lost on those so delusional about their cope as yourself.
Sonic was wrong.
>They were created because Starline wanted revenge on Eggman, dumbass.
Starline had the tubes before he even interacted with Zavok. In an alternate timeline where Eggy died, Starline would still be a villain and still be at large.
He doesn't stop existing because Sonic doesn't kill Tinker, and he doesn't stop thr MV from happening by jailing him either.
Blaming Sonic is reach and cope.
Surge was completely correct that Sonic's policies just continue the cycle of suffering, but by virtue of being the only person stopping Robotnik, nobody can really criticize Sonic. If you want Eggman dead, kill him yourself.
>If you want Eggman dead, kill him yourself.
But Sonic will stop you for trying.
Sonic will literally stop you from trying. Some of his friends will too.
>let mr. tinker to get kidnapped
>after metal tried to kill everyone, let him go
>after eggman tried to kill everyone, let him go
This is what happens when you don't have someone to keep Sonic in line. Amy and israeliteel don't do shit. This isn't the Genesis days anymore. You can't have Sonic's freedom autism run unopposed.
This is the flaw to Sonic's ideology I keep talking about that nobody fricking acknowledges.
Every single time I fricking point out this shit someone will completely disregard the post and ask in bad faith why I want either the comics to "mangle" Sonic's muh freedom shit or why I want Sonic to murder people.
He either needs to learn the lesson and put in a little effort towards the people he gives second chances to, or there should be a pre-existing or new character that takes up that role for him. But you know that if SEGA had the balls to authorize the former that one circlejerk in the fanbase would froth at the mouth because OH GOD OH FRICK FLYNN IS MANGLING SONIC'S CHARACTER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
>Every single time I fricking point out this shit someone will completely disregard the post and ask in bad faith why I want either the comics to "mangle" Sonic's muh freedom shit or why I want Sonic to murder people
This is an emotional reaction to Ian Flynn's moronic decision to be even asking such DUMB questions in what's supposed to be a kid friendly action book.
Nobody wants to question Sonic's moral choices, they just want him to bop Eggman in the noggin!
>He either needs to learn the lesson and put in a little effort towards the people he gives second chances to
Ehh, that would make him closer to his Japanese counterpart, who is as whitebread as all frick, but if it will fulfill the audience's boner for a serious superheroic Sonic, that's one way you can go about it.
> or there should be a pre-existing or new character that takes up that role for him.
Now see, that would've made for a more interesting story. Having Sonic deal with a world that desires another hero. Would he become more lazier, more hard-working, more bitter or more eager to please?
Frick, Imposter Syndrome should've been the second arc following Metal Sonic and should've focused on Starline shilling Surge & Kit to the masses as Sonic & Tails 2.0 like he was doing in the beggining.
If you don't want that, at best you can have the Restoration be more proactive in jailing bad guys that Sonic lets go or worse, Shadow makes a more militant counter-organization to combat Sonic's negligence
>Imagine Sonic comics written by Alan Moore
Unless it's like Top 10 or Tom Strong, I don't want to. IDW is depression kongas as it is
>Garth Ennis
Ennis would be at that age when he would naturally transfer his disdain for Superheroes into a disdain for video game characters.
Maybe even play around with the whole "Corporate mascot" aspect of Sonic and make him as vain & immature as Homelander or A-Train. Though I'm not sure SEGA would appreciate being compared to Vought-American
>blaming Ian for everything
Why do you morons always out yourselves so blatantly.
Sup Schizo!
Remember to take your meds 😉
Hi Penders!
>Now see, that would've made for a more interesting story. Having Sonic deal with a world that desires another hero. Would he become more lazier, more hard-working, more bitter or more eager to please?
>Frick, Imposter Syndrome should've been the second arc following Metal Sonic and should've focused on Starline shilling Surge & Kit to the masses as Sonic & Tails 2.0 like he was doing in the beggining.
This should be fricking Shadow's job to begin with. Have an arc start out similar to the Unleashed intro with Eggman's fleet in space, but then Shadow shows up to try and put him six feet under. All this happens without Sonic realising and he hunts for the guy while he hunts for Eggman. But they can't do that because Flynn doesn't want to write Shadow to begin with because of the boogeyman mandates, and the idea of 'newly-idolised hero of the masses come to put a permanent stop to our favourite villain' is kind of spoilt by Shadow and Surge both existing and mucking up any potential for the idea
>But they can't do that because Flynn doesn't want to write Shadow to begin with because of the boogeyman mandates,
If I had to write Shadow like a one-note anally retentive stick-in-the-mad, I wouldn't wanna write him either.
>and the idea of 'newly-idolised hero of the masses come to put a permanent stop to our favourite villain' is kind of spoilt by Shadow and Surge both existing and mucking up any potential for the idea
Except one of those ideas is a group of villains masquerading as new heroes sowing seeds of doubts that could cause some minor world building, funny & heartwarming moments & discussion about how people see Sonic & what makes a hero
The other idea is giving the world a murder boner just to justify your fan fiction of wanking off to Edgy the Hedgy. It would be just as superflous and pointless as what Flynn wrote.
...on the other hand, that Shadow idea seems like a good start for Garth Ennis to jump on
>Except one of those ideas is a group of villains masquerading as new heroes sowing seeds of doubts that could cause some minor world building, funny & heartwarming moments & discussion about how people see Sonic & what makes a hero
>The other idea is giving the world a murder boner just to justify your fan fiction of wanking off to Edgy the Hedgy. It would be just as superflous and pointless as what Flynn wrote.
Sounds like you have a weird chip on your shoulder, enough to irrationally think the absolute possible best of one scenario and the absolute worst of another because it fits your bias, but that's more a 'you' problem than a Flynn or Sega problem
All of this is built on the presumption of your own morals being inherently correct.
Why do you dumbasses try to make this about morals? I'm coming at this from a storytelling perspective, one of Sonic's flaws as a character is that he doesn't put in the work to redeem those he extend his kindness to.
It's not me being upset over the character not resembling his characterization in Sonic and the Gaping Glory Hole for the NeoGeo, it's clearly something the comics are portraying as a fault of his character, else he wouldn't have been drawn making villain poses/expressions like he did in Issue 50.
>let mr. tinker to get kidnapped
Starline has the ability to warp wherever he wanted. No amount of security would have stopped him from taking Tinker.
>after eggman tried to kill everyone, let him go
Eggman flew away and Shadow failed to capture him.
>Eggman flew away and Shadow failed to capture him.
No anon. The time he slowly flew away and Sonic looked like he was offering a hug.
>and Sonic looked like he was offering a hug
His body language looks so odd in that panel. I guess it's supposed to be like a "come at me bro" gesture? But the smile and the wink confuse me. I've wondered if there was supposed to be a speech bubble where he says something smug, but it ended up missing.
Pretty sure that's an sonic expression .I remember seeing it before. Like the finger wag.
Sonic is gay for Eggman
>he slowly flew away
You have no idea how fast he was flying away in that single panel.
He is literally leaving so slowly they use a second panel to ahow him slowly fricking off. Besides that, Eggman isn't faster when fleeing than a serious Sonic, let alone in his Egg Mobile. Sonic could have caught up to him whenever but didn't because he was literally letting him off the hook to go commit more crimes and plans for mass genocide.
>they use a second panel to ahow him slowly fricking off
Once again you have no indication of how fast his mobile is moving. It's literally a single panel.
>Eggman isn't faster when fleeing than a serious Sonic, let alone in his Egg Mobile.
>I don't play the games
In Unleashed, his mobile was quick enough to stay ahead of Super Sonic for a good bit.
>well you see the way they use conventional time-conveying methods in comics to portray the slow speed of this movement in this comic, doesn't matter actually, they just threw it in for funsies
>conventional time-conveying methods
>shit I made up
I mean if you don't understand how to parse things like the length of a panel or the amount of interaction going in a panel to convey the relative passage of time, what are you even doing on the comics board? Maybe staring at drywall is more your speed
All I see is you misinterpreting a single panel to follow this narrative of yours despite the clear intention of him flying away in a vehicle that is canonically fast enough to get away from Sonic.
>be sonic, the supposedly fastest thing alive
>eggman is hovering in his spacecraft and you have a conversation with him
>he turns around, folds his arms, literally lounging in his ship, and flies away
>meanwhile you are casually walking in his direction
>that is the only movement towards him that you will make and at that speed
He couldn't even fake an attempt. Not even to fool everyone into thinking he's not purposely letting Eggman go. And to top it off, Sonic thinks Eggman will see the error of his ways.
>b-b-b-but for a brief bit he showed that he missed being mr. tinker
Sonic literally just stopped him from trying to kill everyone at a party, specifically striking because Sonic was gone.
>Sonic thinks Eggman will see the error of his ways.
All loving hero.
Aaaaaaaaaaanyday now! He'll suddenly stop trying to kill everyone and just settle down and do the literal exact opposite of what he's done for several years.
Yes, its a dumb belief. But its Sonic's.
He's like Shantae. He only sees the good in people.
Yeah, very convenient that he doesn't have to suffer the consequences until that happens, right? Who cares if people are getting basically servitorized because of it, they're not his friends.
>be sonic, the supposedly fastest thing alive
>alive
Keyword.
>eggman is hovering in his spacecraft and you have a conversation with him
A single exchange of dialogue isn't a conversation.
>he turns around, folds his arms, literally lounging in his ship, and flies away
Eggman's posture isn't a factor in how fast his eggmobile goes.
>meanwhile you are casually walking in his direction
>that is the only movement towards him that you will make and at that speed
Because Eggman is already flying away in his 2nd panel. Sonic cannot fly so why pretend that would be effective?
>And to top it off, Sonic thinks Eggman will see the error of his ways.
Rather he will or not, Sonic will stop him everytime from doing bad shit.
>Sonic cannot fly
Man, if only Sonic had a way to gain momentum and launch himself into the air. If only he had a lock on attack. But we've never seen Sonic do anything like that...
Eggman is flying up, he's at a much taller altitude than that robot, and at a far greater speed. Nice try.
>But the logistics!!
It's really as simple as Sonic snapping his fingers and saying "Dang!" You don't need to apply realistic logic or advanced choreographing knowledge. If you want to sell it, just make the attempt. Its why Eggman escaping ON FOOT in the original games doesn't upset people: it's 100% a matter of intent and conveying ideas.
People aren't mad that Sonic doesn't catch him. They're mad that he's portrayed as not trying and keeps justifying himself while the story actively acknowledges that this is an irresponsible and ridiculous. The same point about Sonic wanting to see the good in everyone can be made without ever needing to justify itself. It's bad writing that's grasping at themes without considering execution.
>If you want to sell it, just make the attempt.
He is literally flying away. You guys are only ignoring it so you can be upset.
Yeah.
And Sonic isn't running after him, or jumping, or even -- like I just said -- snapping his fingers and going "Dang!"
He slowly follows while having a conversation and then sighs. Same kind of thing happens a few issues later: the Zeti get loaded up to get flown back to Lost Hex and he just has this long fricking talk with Zavok where he gives a lame justification. The story could have had them sling the zeti in a rocket and have it blast off in two panels for it to be a very decisive, proactive action in the spur of the moment. Sonic could have *JUST BEATEN THEM UP* and the story could leave it there, because the audience doesn't need to know what happened next. The issue, again, is in execution and intent. By having Sonic not actively, quickly attempt things for closure or directly signal to the audience that it's too late in a cathartic manner, you blue ball your readers while also making him look careless rather than spontaneous.
If you don't get why Superman besting Luthor's latest scheme, going for a malt with Jimmy, and then seeing Luthor at it again next issue is satisfying, but Clark watching Lex slowly retreat while moralizing at him is really annoying, I don't know what I can do for you (aside from telling you to please NEVER get into writing). This is a problem with how the scripts are written, not with the ideas at play.
>If you don't get why Superman besting Luthor's latest scheme, going for a malt with Jimmy, and then seeing Luthor at it again next issue is satisfying
It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era.
>but Clark watching Lex slowly retreat while moralizing at him is really annoying
It's annoying because Superman is OP as frick and Lex would have literally no excuse to get away from him short of kryptonite.
>It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era.
It is closer to what Sonic is.
Granted I do not want to see the comic become that dumbed down, but actively taking focus away from the main cast because character development is not possible is stupid.
The compromise is long form self-contained stories.
>It is closer to what Sonic is.
No it isn't. Sonic has never once cared about jailing or punishing Eggman beyond busting his latest scheme and mech. Superman actually arrests people and the only reason Lex comes back is because he has the money, contacts, and resources to never stay in jail for any considerable time.
Are you defending IDW Sonic here? Because I kind of agree with you but only because he actually does not care about those things.
Not really a defense, I'm just stating the fact that Sonic has never been proactive in stopping Eggman from being a future threat. Whether you like that or not is a different matter.
Aside from the games where he chased after him until he couldn't anymore or blew him up so hard that he was rocket propelled into the distance where Sonic couldn't realistically follow.
Like Sonic 1, 2, 3, K, CD, Adventure, Advance, Advance 2, Rush, Rush Adventure, both Colors, Unleashed, Generations, Lost World and Forces.
>Aside from the games where he chased after him until he couldn't anymore or blew him up so hard that he was rocket propelled into the distance where Sonic couldn't realistically follow.
Sonic is the fastest thing alive, there is no distance that he can't "realistically follow". Sonic doesn't actively blow Eggman up to take him out, he destroys the mech that Eggman is operating and the logical consequence is Eggman getting blown up. Once Eggman is rendered harmless, he does not care and that is supported by the times he's had Eggman defenseless right by him and does nothing.
The only reason Lex comes back is because readers like Lex. No child reading Superman gives A SINGLE SHIT about how he escaped this time. They don't even care if he goes to jail. They care about the bad guy losing to the good guy and the story being fun.
Undermining your own narrative to tackle basic presumptions inherent to the story structure is the kind of shit Ken Penders did back on Knuckles. It sucked then, it sucks now. You lose nothing by simply scripting these same scenarios slightly differently and gain better reception for your story in return.
What does this comic gain from this
being written as
>static statement
>smug retort
>Sonic casually following as Eggman talks at him
>Sonic laments the situation
Vs
>Eggman says the same thing in a panel of his EggMobile blasting up into the sky
>"Wait, Eggman!" Hand outstretched.
>Same dialogue, except Eggman is drawn zooming out of there
>Same ending, dualogue and all
It's literally just less cathartic for no reason. Heroes do that stock "STOP!" for a reason, the alternative is annoying.
I like how you had to backpedal and had to use children as your argument when the only people complaining about this are not children. They might not care about justifications or jail but they also don't care if there are justifications or jail either.
>backpedal
I said children because Superman's target audience in the Otto Binder era being referenced was children. Jesus Christ. You rather I say manchildreb when it's not relevant to the comparison?
Why are you even latching on to that instead of the actual argument? Is it because you have no actual answer for what's gained by not writing the script that way?
>I said children because Superman's target audience in the Otto Binder era being referenced was children.
And I said that writing was defunct because children are no longer the sole audience.
>Why are you even latching on to that instead of the actual argument?
Your argument is literally that children don't care about justifications or jail so they shouldn't put them in. But children aren't the only audience and like I said, children don't care if there are justifications or jail so using them as an argument is stupid.
So you're just going to keep circling around semantics instead of actually answering how the story benefits from refusing to just give readers more cathartic resolutions. Got it.
>It's not and is why that type of comic writing is defunct in this era.
You better tell Topolino and Shonen Jump before they go under, anon. This is dire news for the literal hundreds of comics that still work on an episodic structure and don't waste time on trying to convince their readers that things they would accept by default should be accepted.
>Topolino and Shonen Jump
>niche foreign comic
>a wide variety of manga with the top sellers all being ones that don't do self-contained stories unless they're straight comedies and even then there is continuity
You sure showed me anon.
Sonic can't be that and it should stop trying.
You're right, Disney is niche in Europe and when mention it I DO remember how Arlong Park ended!
>Genzo: "Luffy, get out of the way, we need to go after Arlong's men!"
>Luffy: "Actually, it's time for me to start talking about my morals at you. You see, I don't condone murder in any fashion and believe strongly in redemption. Going after Hachi and Chuu right now would deny them their chance to grow as people and redeem themselves."
>that type of comic writing is defunct in this era
Let me fix that for you.
>The kind of people who buy American floppies suffer from severe autism and obsess over continuity and text dumps, so quality storytelling is not lucrative in that market.
>If you want to sell it, just make the attempt.
EXACTLY
Literally every Sonic, even the ones in games would've at least tried.
>even the ones in games would've at least tried
Like in SA2, and in Heroes, and in ShtH, and in Riders, and in literally every game where Sonic doesn't bother to do anything further once the primary threat is dealt with.
>SA2
A great example of why this isn't an iron clad rule and story context matters. Trying to justify and create that scenario at that point would actively make the story worse. Same deal as IDW #5, where Sonic trying to stop Eggman from getting killed is pretty reasonable.
>Heroes
Three other people chase Eggman into the distance in that ending, directly addressing this. Awful example.
>ShtH
The resolution to that situation wasn't even on screen! We have no idea what happened, which ties into the point that not acknowledging is a valid way to end some stories.
>Riders
Yeah, his plan was just to sabotage a race and the audience gets catharsis with hammy ending where he gets an old carpet for his trouble. It cuts there. The audience gets its catharsis and the rest is simply vague because it's unnecessary to that story.
Also you left out like 20 other games, all of which end with Eggmam getting blown away or escaping. Your argument is perched on in-universe logic instead of narrative function.
Not him but
>Three other people chase Eggman into the distance in that ending, directly addressing this. Awful example.
You're being a fishonest hack here. Sonic runs off well before the Chaotox do this. And they only do so because they want their paycheck. Sonic didnt give a frick about apprehending Eggy. He was like "okay, jobs done, time to go do sometjing else" and ran off to his next adventure. He even just leaves Metal on the ground and welcomes him to try his shit again multille times as many as he desires.
You're grasping hard here.
>The resolution to that situation wasn't even on screen!
Play the games instead of talking out your ass. Knuckles is there chasing him while Sonic ignores him because he is too busy looking at thr big rock going boom in the sky and giving Shadow props.
Sonic and crew just laugh at Knuckles comically chasing Eggman. He doesnt take it seriously.
>Yeah, his plan was just to sabotage a race and the audience gets catharsis with hammy ending where he gets an old carpet for his trouble. It cuts there. The audience gets its catharsis and the rest is simply vague because it's unnecessary to that story.
Dishonest hack. He was going to revice an ancient continent to take its tech to take over the world. He even kidnapped Amy. He airboards him, takes the key and just leaves, eggy behind.
>Entire point of post is that in-universe logic is secondary to audience catharsis and context of story.
>WELL ACTUALLY, GIVEN IN-UNIVERSE LOGIC
You fricking moron.
You have two examples where the resolution is that his buddies take care of it and it's played as a joke and one where the universe pranks his ass. In all three cases it would be weird and deeply unsatisfying if instead Eggman made little attempt to escape and the Heroes just lectured him, not really trying.
I don't know how you can look at this and not understand that writing a flaccid ending is boring and annoying, or why you think critiquing what comes off as a lack of effort on the protagonists part means he must do the same thing every time. What it means is that the alternatives we've been given SUCK and take people out of the story.
I think you replied to the wrong post
>Point about narrative payoff is "wrong/dishonest" because order of events, a scene that doesn't actually answer if Sonic eventually joined in or not, and severity of actions taken (aka, in-universe justification instead of whether the audience got their closure).
No, it's replying to the right post.
You went on a schizophrenic side parabl with yourself when i was just correcting your statements because they were full of spin. The concersation has always been about Sonic's own actions in regards to aprehending Eggman or not.
>A great example of why this isn't an iron clad rule and story context matters.
He is literally standing on the bridge surrounded by all the heroes after committing acts of terrorism. No context is going to change that Sonic didn't make an attempt.
>Three other people chase Eggman into the distance in that ending
For their payment for the job, not to punish or jail him. Sonic had already left before the Chaotix even started to chase him as well. Nice try.
>The resolution to that situation wasn't even on screen!
Again, Eggman is literally standing around with all the heroes surrounding him yet it's treated as a silly "Oh you" moment, complete with them providing a laugh track. No context is going to count as Sonic "making an attempt".
>Yeah, his plan was just to sabotage a race and the audience gets catharsis with hammy ending where he gets an old carpet for his trouble.
Eggman is publicly hosting a racing tournament and Sonic just plays along. No attempt to capture the guy who has caused trouble over multiple games.
>It cuts there.
No it doesn't. It ends with Eggman past out on the floor and everyone just ignores him and leaves. No attempt was made by Sonic.
>Also you left out like 20 other games, all of which end with Eggmam getting blown away or escaping.
Where Sonic makes no attempt to do anything after the threat was dealt with. Eggman gets himself blown up because Sonic destroys whatever machine he's in. Eggman escapes and Sonic doesn't make an active effort to pursue him. Game Sonic never makes an attempt to deal with Eggman any more than necessary.
>Your argument is perched on in-universe logic instead of narrative function.
>Your argument is based on actual facts rather than what you think the intention of the narrative is
Excuse me for not wanting to make shit up.
Okay, got, you are actually incapable of looking at a story in terms of making a satisfying piece of media instead of a very direct reading of the events taking place.
Make sure you leave your complaints for Tex Avery about Road Runner running into paintings. It's highly illogical and inconsistent, what were they thinking?!?
Blah, blah, blah, making shit up to fit your narrative and ignoring what's inconvenient to it. A strategy as old as time.
Having Sally on his dick would just prevent him from ever getting shit done to begin with.
Tinker getting taken away would happen regardless because Starline has a magic portal gun stone.
If Metal wasn't the final trigger, something else would have been.
If Eggman DID dies Starline woulf just try to be the new Eggman in his honor.
Evil will always exist. Blaming Sonic is just an irrational cope and castrating him doesnt solve your problems.
Archie Eggman lost multiple cities and before the reboot he was running on fumes. Reboot Eggman got away because Sonic was busy fighting Dark Gaia. StC Eggman lost multiple times and no longer controlled the world like he did towards the start. IDW Sonic seems to be content with the status quo, very different from his two comic counterparts.
Sonic Misses the part were that's his problem
>surge: i was brainwashed and tortured!
>sonic:
>Being shackled to a Ricky expy and having to follow it's orders
>Relation-shit drama
We'll live. Doubt he'd listen anyway.
Imagine Sonic comics written by Alan Moore or Garth Ennis.
Are you really sitting in here wondering why sonic doesn't just kill eggman? Have you become so fricking lost that you aren't embarrassed by that?
Nah, it's more questioning the narrative choices thst lead us to this point.
You can either have a Sonic that takes Robotnik seriously and Robotnik is a threat, OR you can have a Sonic that basically trolls Eggman and Eggman is a buffoon. But having a Sonic that doesn't take a dangerous Eggman seriously just makes Sonic look like a jerk, especially in a setting where no one rlse can even touch Eggman. It makes every other character pawns in a pissfight between two Gods
I wish she was my girlfriend.
Dude, she'd bite your dick off.
Nah, she's probably shy in bed.
People don't want to be mocked for reading a Kid's comic, so it has to be dark, edgy and subversive to try and justify their post-modern interest; this is despite the fact they'd be mocked anyway because it's a fricking Sonic comic.
>People don't want to be mocked for reading a comic, so it has to be dark, edgy and subversive to try and justify their post-modern interest; this is despite the fact they'd be mocked anyway because it's a fricking comic.
tale as old as time
Eggman is like a TV show host gone mad
The autists are crying for blood because the comic keeps navel gazing and Sonic keeps giving shitty speeches on morality. Nobody cares. Just let him be a bit bummed things didn't work out sometimes and leave it at that.
We don't need justifications for why Sonic doesn't kill Eggman. Just have Eggman succeed in escaping.
The comic needs more mandates.
So did Sonic just stop caring? All these years and he's like "frick it" and just let's Eggman go?
He's screwing around right there. If he really wanted to he could have easily caught Eggman in a second. He lets him run because its part of the game.
Sonic realized he's in purgatory to be chasing an egg-shaped Teddy Roosevelt for all eternity and realized it doesn't matter. None of it matters.
>when someone arrests you and sonic's not around to bail you out
I'm amazed this thread has lasted this long.
Started and carefully maintained by trolls.
>Sonic-oriented philosophy thread
Wow, IDW must really be that boring if that's the most people care to talk about.
If it was boring no one would talk about it.
Nobody talks about the actual stories. They talk about fandom drama and weird quirks like this that arise from the weird writing.
>Nobody talks about the actual stories
There have been several threads talking about Surge/Kit, Starline, and the confrontation between Sonic and Surge. The only stories no one talks about are Evan's.
In fact, if anything, it's a testament to how much of a hit Surge was if there's been regular sonic discussion threads nowadays. This certainly wasn't the norm before Impostor Syndrome came along.
I'm not sure that's a good thing, because a lot of it's been how disappointing Surge has been compared to what she could have been.
While it's true her fist fight was disappointing, this is literally her first fight. She's not going to suddenly disappear, not when Starline stuck around all the way until now.
I'm talking about
-The fact she didn't do anything worthwhile prior to discovering Starline had made her backstory up
-The fact she didn't have any run ins with Sonic and friends prior to the aforementioned discovery and fighting using her crafted character
-The fact her plot to betray Starline never even came close to happening
-The fact she doesn't seem particularly troubled over her actual history as opposed to just being mad at the whole world.
-And yes her disappointing first fight that didn't even give Sonic a real challenge outside of words.
Surge has been failing to deliver on all fronts but selling on her punk personality.
>Evan
Nobody talked about the D6 story or the Metal Virus aside from "WHY IS IT SO LONG AND WHY DOES NOTHING HAPPEN."
It's more that Surge and Kit are the closest the comic's come so far to an actual story + waifu appeal.
>Nobody talked about the D6 story or the Metal Virus aside from "WHY IS IT SO LONG AND WHY DOES NOTHING HAPPEN."
Either disingenuous or non-lurker. People talked about things in that arc than just how long it was.
>Nobody talked about the D6 story
Not entirely accurate, I remember people theorizing that the follow up story would be about the people having lost faith in Sonic since the entire thing was technically his fault for not killing Eggman, based on that unhappy Cream panel.
Then everything was fine as if nothing had happened.
By that same logic, people still talk about TBF because of Amy's card reading we never see.
You mean her prediction that Tangle and Whisper were mandated by destiny to end up scissoring?
If we talked about the actual stories then we'd just be going on about this waste of space.
>take away the mouse ears
>keep the mouse teeth
why
>character challenges Sonic's philosophy in an issue
>Why are people talking about philosophy???
I'm certain there'll be plenty of non-philosophical discussion once surge gives whisper an electroshock therapy, but until then, this is what we'll talk about.
If philosophy is boring to you as an adult then grow the frick up
>he says, pulling his hair out arguing online about a Sonic the hedgehog comicbook
I just came here to call you a manchild, I don't even care about sonic
It is one really dedicated autist, Cinemaphile's weakness.
>we're threads
ESL will never learn
That's strawman moronation. Nobody really wants Sonic to kill all his enemies, they want him to be empathetic and take accountability, to think about all the people his villains will hurt because he wants to play games, knowing full well there's no way someone like Eggman can be redeemed. Literally all he has to do is not stare at them as they run away from the scene of their destruction. He doesn't even have to catch anyone. It's such a low bar to clear.
The problem is IDW's narration is actually calling attention to it, something it really shouldn't be doing because it can't be used as a plot.
#
>want him to be empathetic and take accountability
So they want him to be OoC. And seemingly only because this time he is against their precious waifu.
Sonic was already plenty empathetic during the fight. Anything more goes into basically wanting Sonic to kneel and beg for forgiveness like a b***h or something and then beat himself up about it like a sadsack loser.
Why doesn't literally anyone else do it? It's not Sonic's job to decide Eggman's fate, and he's not the only one in the world who can stop Eggman
>Why doesn't literally anyone else do it?
Shadow tried to, Sonic stopped him.
Sonic stopped Tinker from being killed. Tinker was innocent.
Tinker was a special case, from Sonic's perspective he didn't really count as Eggman and didn't want essentially an innocent man murdered. If Shadow wants normal Eggman dead so bad he could literally teleport to his bedroom and snap his neck practically any time, it's not like he fricking does anything besides brood nowadays.
Because Sonic will literally stop anyone who attempts to? Did you literally miss the part where he flat-out says as much to Surge and stopped Shadow from offing Tinker and avoiding the entire Metal Virus plot?
Both of these takes are correct and should co-exist
I dont
You did that just to keep the thread from archiving.
>Surge is angry, and she’s about to make it everyone’s problem… At least everyone in Central City. Sonic’s friends race to stop her rampage, but there’s something different about her. Something…more powerful.
Just what kind of powerup would allow Surge to suddenly be a threat to the Sonic team
>Whisper's back
Fricking why?
I *hope* that its because, as an original character, there arent any mandates stopping her from being thrown into the ground, so it allows Surge to have an fight without being forced to job because
>muh hecking brand
>mandate boogeyman
?t=177
>Implying there still aren't SEGA Mandates
lol
He literally follows it up by saying that there is no back and forth and it's just "That's how it is now"
I like Whisper, but I prefer her when she's paired with Tangle since she's kinda boring on her own.
Maybe she drained electricity to become stronger ala Livewire.
What kind of power source would allow someone to go from barely beating Metal with Kitsunami's help to being an genuine threat for the Sonic team?
>The thread that wouldn't die
Amy sisters, how is blaze more popular?
Ha ha, frick you Amy.
Blaze is sexier and more mature. Also she’s got fine tail. Furries love fine tail.
Because with Blaze, you can play in the Himalayas for hours!
I straight up can't get over Sonic and Tails being sociopaths in canon
Imagine if Mega Man kept letting Dr. Wily go free because of a vain hope that he'll turn over a new leaf of own his free will.
Mega Man usually at least turns Wily over to the cops. And he has the excuse of being hardwired to not be able to harm humans.
He only lets him go because he's literally programmed to never put a shot through his head, though it came pretty close in MM7. Sonic just doesn't want to lose his favorite playtime partner.
>3
Wily appears to fricking die.
>4
Wily escapes via trickery.
>5
Wily escapes by pure chance.
>6
Wily is arrested.
>7
Bass saves Wily.
>8
Evil Energy bullshit gives Wily a chance to bolt.
1, 2 and MM&B were the only times he let Wily go.
I don't want that, but an Eggman behind bars arc could be neat.