A. Was Sally supposed to be smiling in that bottom panel?
B. If she prefers more mature guys, what's with her dating a guy who was already immature enough to mouth off at and disobey king Acorn well into his teen years?
Sonic Issue 137
A. Was Sally supposed to be smiling in that bottom panel?
B. If she prefers more mature guys, what's with her dating a guy who was already immature enough to mouth off at and disobey king Acorn well into his teen years?
most people grow up after their teens. Not Sonic apparently, he stayed a perpetual manchild
Most of history treated teenagers as adults, and they responded by acting like adults. I'd take the narrative that there's any substantive difference between teen years and adulthood; and in turn between the behaviours associated with them; with a grain of salt.
> Was Sally supposed to be smiling in that bottom panel?
No, she’s meant to be annoyed but the facial expression is too… neutral to show that.
> If she prefers more mature guys, what's with her dating a guy who was already immature enough to mouth off at and disobey king Acorn well into his teen years?
I know that this is a weird Penders story but I’ll give credit for one thing.
This story shows why Sonic and Sally could potentially not be great partners for each other, especially if the traditional monarchy was maintained, which would have required Sonic and Sally to directly rule after they got married.
Sonic is a chaotic person that cannot stay in one place for too long. He is meant to be one with the world, and do what his heart tells him to do. Sitting around all day at the head of government would just be DEPRESSING for him. And this comic shows that pretty well. This is not out of character. This is not his way of helping the world. This causes him to go into a mid-life crisis. The only reason why he remains King is because of Sally and his kids.
Sally on the other hand, is more of an orderly person who wants to help people directly by being a steadfast leader and to fulfill her duties. During the war, we can see that Sally could keep toe to toe with Sonic, and she also wanted to take action directly just like him. The problem is, when her duty shifts, so does she. Before, her best way of helping the people was by directly fighting. Now it’s by ruling.
“Opposites attract” is mostly a myth. It causes issues in almost all relationships that have this characteristic.
The only way I can see Sonic and Sally both being content and in a fully healthy relationship is if the pre-reboot comics continued. The monarchy got its power reduced and Elias would act as the leader of the council of Acorn.
Once the war ended (and whenever Sally would’ve gotten deroboticized), Sally would not be so tied to down to government duty.
Honestly, I'd rather they go the full-blown Republic direction. Sonic X goes to show that portraying politics in a democratic context goes well with Sonic too!
In any case, that's a very insightful post, especially for a Cinemaphile Sonic comics thread, so kudos to you for this!
>Honestly, I'd rather they go the full-blown Republic direction. Sonic X goes to show that portraying politics in a democratic context goes well with Sonic too!
I’m honestly surprised that wasn’t the direction the story went with. I’d like to imagine that later down the line, had the comic not rebooted, that the monarchy would’ve been dissolved altogether.
The time of the Acorn Monarchy was over. It failed. Its Kings were usually tyrants who have caused a lot of pain to the people. Even King Max was a shitty king and his weakness after the war against the Overlanders allowed Robotnik to rise.
Even when the monarchy had its power reduced, it was led by a very inexperienced but good-hearted king. Naugus would take over soon after and we know full well how his rule would go until the universe reset itself for good.
With everything had happened, from King George’s Folly to Naugus, its mind-boggling to me that the people did not demand for a complete and total abolishment of the monarchy.
Perhaps sometime later it would have happened, but we’ll never know
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention. Frick King Max for selling the kingdom out to save his own skin. He’s no king but a selfish coward who eventually became a weak and pathetic old man.
they did demand for total abolishment, Sally and Elias just refused to step down and they decided for a gay "middle way" when there's really no benefit to keeping the monarchists
"Person A wants the serial killer not to stab him, Serial Killer B wants to stab A 10 times, therefore let's let Serial Killer B stab A only 5 times. Everyone gets something."
Frick Centrists
She was raised by monarchs. The best of people could be biased in monarchy's favour given such a context.
Yeah my bad, I meant to say force
>Its Kings were usually tyrants
Nah, with the exception of George and Max, everyone else did what they could with what they had and usually had peaceful reigns.
>Peaceful reigns
There are different ways to make a reign peaceful and being good towards the people is not always the way
Either way, the monarchy had to go. Same for that stupid piss pool.
> In any case, that's a very insightful post, especially for a Cinemaphile Sonic comics thread, so kudos to you for this!
And thanks 😀
And lastly, this would work for Sonic because he is capable of settling down a bit, he doesn’t mind that. It’s when he’s tied down to something like being a King is where he becomes miserable.
And with the war over, Sally would not have to worry about him so much anymore. That stress would be gone.
And I assume that Mobius would need a lot of recovery efforts from all the damage Robotnik and others did so I totally see Sally and Sonic working together to help rebuild.
When that’s over, they would both settle down for a bit somewhere and have some kids. And since they wouldn’t have that many responsibilities anymore, Sonic can run the world every now and then, and take Sally and the kids too. Sally is not one to be against adventure after all, especially while she doesn’t have major responsibilities like ruling a kingdom.
This works. Sally won’t feel alone and be worried for Sonic all the time and Sonic won’t be tied down completely.
Sonic can run around the world*
If Conan of Cimmeria can settle into being a king then so can't blue hedgehog.
I don’t know who that is so unfortunately I cannot provide a counter-point
The most I can do is just point to Sonic’s behavior throughout his entire existence across all continuities.
>I don’t know who that is
Yer razzing me right?
I’m dead serious, yeah. But while we are on the topic, this can be added to my list of media to check out, so thank you anon.
>Sonic is a chaotic person that cannot stay in one place for too long. He is meant to be one with the world, and do what his heart tells him to do. Sitting around all day at the head of government would just be DEPRESSING for him. And this comic shows that pretty well. This is not out of character. This is not his way of helping the world. This causes him to go into a mid-life crisis. The only reason why he remains King is because of Sally and his kids.
The problem is that this is predicated on the idea that Sonic wouldn't grow out of his 16-year-old self in 25 years.
The comic had already previously hinted that Sonic doesn't do well without conflict and adventure when Robotnik is defeated, but I'd like to think he wouldn't spend his whole adult yearning for Eggman to come back so he wouldn't be bored.
Granted King Sonic is a hard pill to swallow. But I'd like to think a 40-year-old Sonic would figure something out. Anything else is too much of a downer to think about and I hate that Penders thought it was something worth reading.
> The problem is that this is predicated on the idea that Sonic wouldn't grow out of his 16-year-old self in 25 years.
The comic had already previously hinted that Sonic doesn't do well without conflict and adventure when Robotnik is defeated, but I'd like to think he wouldn't spend his whole adult yearning for Eggman to come back so he wouldn't be bored.
I didn’t mean to say that he would continue to yearn for some baddie to come out of hiding. He would definitely grow out of that. But for a person like Sonic, having a responsibility like being King and doing all that paper work would just do no good for what kind of a person he is. Maybe at some point he would mellow out even more but either way, I think 25 years later is still a rather accurate depiction of how Sonic would feel if he was made a king
All the crown-related stuff in that comic was so fricking cringe.
It's like the writers went out of their way to show the role of a king as the shittiest, most boring thing in the universe.
They should've just went with a Mushroom Kingdom-tier generic goody fantasy kingdom and it would've worked 100x better.
Characters like Max and Elias were colossal dregs in almost any story they appeared.
But that's the thing. There's already Mario content out there. If they want Mario, they can play or watch Mario. Sonic fell into the "somewhat edgy compared to the Mario franchise" niche, from the Sonic Adventure games to Sonic X, etc...
Archie's world already had enough external threats to not require the kingdom itself to be some kind of legal nightmare.
Robotnik literally nuked to death an entire planet once, or things like Mogul destroying entire universes.
It just feels like a childish attempt to make the story feel more mature.
The child soldiers who lead by themselves a lifelong organized resistance against the bad guy to retake the usurped kingdom now struggle to do everyday tasks as rulers.
With characters like Nicole existing you could easily just say that every single annoying mundane task would be solved automatically, and with Sonic having world-travel speed on demand there's no good reason for him to be stuck inside the castle all the time.
Ngl I thought Max was pretty okay as a tyrannical and incompetent king. Not sure if you ever watched a show called Merlin but Max kinda reminded me of Arthur’s father. Not as nuanced though.
Except I’d argue that Max is more cowardly.
Now after he sold out the kingdom, he suddenly cares about “the will of the source” so much. Perhaps he is guilty for what he did. So he goes into overdrive in his madness, even goes as far as trying to have the Robians killed. He also continues to manipulate Sally and guilt trip her into taking his place. When that doesn’t work, he replaces her with Elias who doesn’t know a thing about being a leader.
Max did what he could but in the end, his mind deteriorated, and his kingdom was lost. And now he begins to lose all sense of himself. A fitting fate.
Elias on the other hand. Is not a bad character imo.
He had been away with his mother this whole time, with no experience at being a leader. And yet, with the heart he has, he decides to put his fears away and take over from Sally, who has decided to reject the stupid piss pool.
God, I wish Sally was handled better in the earlier issues, I would have loved an arc where she finally has it with her dad and the source and decided to destroy the latter to put a stop to him and the acorn monarchy.
Wait...I thought Manik was an "Underground"-only abomination...is she talking about the same character I'm thinking of?
No. Manik in this story is Sonic and Sally's son. Sonia is also their daughter.
Sonia and Manic from underground actually appear in one of the multiverse super specials
...what the frick?!
I guess that was one way to keep Underground alive, lol
Nicole! Do you think Sally would approve of you spreading her pics around?
Mina was right, AI was a mistake.
Frick you, Mina was wrong. And she deserves to be force fed cheeseburgers until her belly can’t handle it anymore and her guts burst out all over the place
…that is a weirdly specific suggested method of killing a character, anon.
Okay then, what’s your idea?
Chili dogs instead of hamburgers.
Based, Sonic would approve.
Okay you know what, I should draw this. And I will do hotdogs and instead of hamburger like you suggested anon
I meant it's oddly specific that a food based method was mentioned at all...
As if you have a better idea
I wouldn't have wanted to kill Mina in the first place. Hell, I don't even have a problem with her. She seems like a sweet girl, especially in comparison to Sally Acorn...
Sorry anon but she needs correcting. Even if it’s for the first and last time.
The Sonic franchise already has a smirking buxom character and she's called "Rouge."
They’re de-milfing her so not anymore
That's a shame. Not sure who has a problem with her buxom figure who'd be placated by anything short of scrapping the character on account of who it was created to appeal to.
Oh well. There's already plenty of Sonic content out there preceding that.
Indeed.
>If she prefers more mature guys
On another note. I never saw the appeal of Sonic and Amy being together until very recently.
People actually loved the fact that Amy would just obsess and continue to ignore Sonic’s personal space over and over again?
I hate this so much because I had to deal with an Amy when I was a kid. Every Sunday at church she would try to hug me, sit down next to me, try to hold my hand, even kiss me and I was very very uncomfortable and I hated every single moment of it.
It even got the point where two church leaders gave me an ugly look one time because they saw us holding hands and it was never me who started it.
Eventually she finally left me alone but I never told anyone about it because I didn’t know how to, or maybe I felt like that I shouldn’t. Idk. Anyway, I know first hand how it sucks to be around an Amy and people who like this sort of dynamic just come off as weird and obnoxious to me.
You were looking at that situation through a child’s eyes, though. A boy’s pickiness about romantic partners or appropriate settings for affection is almost fit to rival a girl’s. In contrast, puberty tends to crank that “I belong to whatever girl wants me the most this week, wherever and whenever she wants me” tendency up to 11. You almost never hear of grown men rejecting the advances of grown women, unless those advances are implied to be conditional on being hers and only hers, in which case he won’t believe she means it, what with “small penis” being a more popular insult than “small ability to stay faithful to one woman.”
With Amy the fact that Sonic’s too old for her is a confounding factor, but this is a man who disobeys the law in the games and anime, and disobeys/disrespects King Acorn in the comics, so the fandom didn’t put it past him to let her have him.
Besides, the lion’s share of the fandom condemnation is directed not at Amy for beating him to within an inch of his life for refusing to marry her in Sonic Heroes, but at Sonic for causing her to think he secretly wanted her. The aforementioned lawlessness, plus the failure to make clear why he thinks letting her have him is going too far, was a recipe for disaster, in a world where men aren’t known to say no and mean it, no matter how good a reason they have. (Eg. “What if the condom breaks and she keeps the baby”?)
The trouble with current debates around the psychology of dating isn’t that we’ve overstated the differences between boys and girls so much as that we’ve understated the differences between children and everyone else. That and cried wolf about it by calling teenagers “children” even though historically most societies saw children as more analogous to adults as far as the differences that count go. :/
I read Archie Sonic 125 today and it was a really amazing issue and definitely going to be one of my favorites. Sonic going in to stop the quantum dial was my favorite part.
Such a shame that the comic only went downhill from there for a time after that high point.
Honestly, I think #136 was more interesting than #125.
Yeah, me too. I love Bollers.
From what I could've gathered roughly off current Ride before 160#, people seem to like the writer, though from their observations, Sally seems to be a bit too much of a feminine and submissive gal for her character's sake, within his pen. I never really felt that impression off, but I could see what they mean... I think?
I have been always curious to know what are overall thoughts folks here have over Bollers, both on his take over Sally and general stuff he has done for the comic.
Bollers…
*Inhales sharply through nose*
Okay so… the slap is the singular moment that truly paints the comic in a bad light, despite everything else.
I think the slap could have worked, had there been a proper build up prior to it.
I don’t know why he did this but Bollers made Sally more into a useless crybaby who suddenly couldn’t take direct action.
Sure, it was her father doing this in-story but Boller’s way of portraying all of this is rather… not great.
In the issues where Sonic is back and everyone sees that he is alive and well, wverything just feels… off. Everyone’s reactions to Sonic being back feels unserious and cheesy. Especially when it comes with Sally and Sonic reuniting for the most part.
However, Sally clearly doesn’t want to lose Sonic again, likely has PTSD, and has bottle up stuff from years of crap.
The slap should make sense, right? No, everything that builds up to it just feels off, unserious, and cheesy.
This story arc does not feel real, just a lame attempt to start up drama. The ingredients are there for a good emotional conflict but Bollers didn’t seem to know what to fully do with them. And the slap feels so sudden.
Like why did it take for this long to Sally to try to get Sonic to stop? Wouldn't that have been the first thing she would have tried to do? The slap just feels like something that was injected at the most moment without much insight or thought made beforehand. And Penders was definitely laughing with glee when this went to print.
One of these days I’d like to rewrite that entire arc because it just doesn’t do justice to the emotional situation at hand. Not just between Sonic and Sally but with everyone else too imo.
And think about it. Before this whole story, Sally was a headstrong person who also fought on the front lines. Sure, losing Sonic would’ve been such a huge blow to her, but it was established that she never gave up and had to take on more of the load…
… and I would expect Sally to not be at her best at all but Bollers takes her and just… changes her completely and not in a way that sits well with me.
And there is so much wasted opportunity.
Her dad is manipulating her. He’s become a mad man. He sold out his kingdom to Nagus. Then he marched back in and played his tune of “only the source matters and you must bend to its will”.
All the while, he is forcing Sally to do… basically nothing, just hide away with them so she doesn’t die. Does she have responsibilities? Yes. But is it the right way to fulfill? Arguably, no. People are out there dying and Sally for the longest time had taken the fight to the front lines.
If sitting around hiding in a control center is what she is supposed to do, I could totally see why she would hate it.
It’s cowardly.
This could’ve been a wake up call for Sally to realize that her father is an awful man, and the monarchy isn’t the best way for the people to continue and for her to serve them. And that the stupid piss pool has no right to dictate her fate or the fate all other mobians. The power deserves to be in the hands of the people.
Perhaps in another timeline, Sally was written to oppose her father, usurp him, and destroy the source of all. Perfectly in character with the Sally I know. She and Sonic would also have a falling out that is better written and better received because despite how people have texted to the slap, as I have said, things have happened that explain why Sally reacted the way she. She finally reached her limit and could not bear to lose Sonic again. And Sonic literally came back out of nowhere as if nothing happened and just kept on fighting.
Of course I know very well that while Sally had better or even great moments before this particular story, I’m well aware that she was still written inconsistently and oddly during the earlier issues, especially when Penders was involved. I just like to look at Sally through the lens of when she was best written.
>This could’ve been a wake up call for Sally to realize that her father is an awful man
How many people are willing to see that in the very people who raised them, unless they were abused themselves?
Not many. And for someone like Sally, it would take a while for her to come to terms with that reality. But she shouldn’t have been the one to have come to this conclusion either. I’d imagine that Sally at first would stick with her father but as he continues to push and as his actions sink in, this would be the moment for Sally to do the best thing to serve her people, which would be to free them from the very thing that got them into this whole mess to begin with. It would be hard for her but I’d imagine with especially Sonic on her side, she would have what it would take to oppose her father and fight with the Source
I have wrote out an altered plot yet so I can’t fully tack down her how and what exactly would lead to this other than what I’ve stayed throughout this thread so far
Remember what he took from us all
>Get a guy cause he's fun to be around and not a bore
>Oh now you want him to be mature and grown up YOU WANT HIM TO CHANGE
>Oh I don't like successful arrogant people who don't worship me 24/7. So I'll pick the humble loser who doesn't deserve me nor need me. I'll pick Homer Simpson, Fred Flinstone, etc.
>Once they're married. OH I want you to change, to be more successful, mature, richer, intelligent. -_- seriously? You pick the guy who CAN'T OFFER YOU things because he was a humble loser who can't make you feel inadequate and NOW YOU b***h that he can't offer you a better life? and you b***h that the arrogant successful douchebag didn't put you in first place to sate your egotistical bullshit to make you feel important, but the "humble" loser suddenly doesn't even give you a birthday gift and you're lucky if he even remembers to give you flowers on your anniversary.
ARE YOU FOR REAL RIGHT NOW?
No seriously what the FRICK is it with women? this is a real life problem, this is reality. This isn't just exaggeration. This isn't cartoon stuff. I've seen this shit happen in real life N times. It's written in media BECAUSE it's such a COMMON POPULAR PROBLEM.
This is basic psychology 101 and somehow these women and these moronic men still don't get it through their thick heads to find someone more fitting for themselves. What the frick is wrong with people. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THESE PROBLEMS?
>WHAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THESE PROBLEMS?
For irl relationships, communication. That’s literally all it takes. So many problems and failed relationships can be avoided. But people don’t like to communicate their feelings. Either because they don’t want to for some reason or don’t feel like it.
For romance writing… don’t hire someone like Ken Penders.
In my last big breakup I was always very open and honest about my feelings, dreams and aspirations. The girl I was with was a liar and kept secrets from me, though, and was dishonest about what she thought about the future. Sometimes failed relationships just come down to the fact that one person is in love and the other isn't but puts on a nice face because they're getting something they want by pretending to love the other person.
>The girl I was with was a liar and kept secrets from me, though, and was dishonest about what she thought about the future. Sometimes failed relationships just come down to the fact that one person is in love and the other isn't but puts on a nice face because they're getting something they want by pretending to love the other person.
I am very sorry to hear that anon. Liars are the worst. You did your best
I think Sally would have been better with Shadow. Not the "King Shadow" aberration, it just feels like actual Shadow is everything Sally WANTS Sonic to be but will never be.
Plus they've got a good Bulma and Vegeta vibe going.
After some thought, yeah… Sally and Shadow could be a better pairing by compatibility. Shadow has a more serious personality and not as chaotic or whimsical as Sonic.
But does Shadow have the charm that made Sally fall in love with Sonic in the first place? Not so sure about it. For one, Sally loves banter and joking. Not sure if that would be Shadow’s thing. Good topic to explore though
On another note, I wonder what Penders was was even thinking when he used Shadow the way he did in 25 years later. Very out of character for Archie Shadow. Maybe not too out of character for game Shadow though…
>does Shadow have the charm that made Sally fall in love with Sonic in the first place?
Bunnie said it herself, Sally is attracted to "strong men", charm is a bit inconsequential to that. You can argue it was St. Jon's "charm" that made her wet for him but she's attracted to strength and capability more than personality, hence why she put up with Sonic for so long despite clearly not liking him as a person.
>Bunnie said it herself, Sally is attracted to "strong men", charm is a bit inconsequential to that. You can argue it was St. Jon's "charm" that made her wet for him but she's attracted to strength and capability more than personality, hence why she put up with Sonic for so long despite clearly not liking him as a person.
You know what, that makes a lot more sense, and that is especially more true in the earlier issues when I think about it. Huh, perhaps that is another reason why Sally might not be a great match for Sonic.
Yes