He's a kino villain. He even does that thing good villains do where he's defeated once and then makes a comeback against all odds before he's finally defeated for good.
Napoleon isn't really tragic because it's not like with Hitler where they were out to kill him no matter what from day 1, they gave Napoleon like 4 chances to stop and keep everything he had conquered and get away with everything if only he stopped going too far but he had to get it on cause he was addicted to the action more than anything. Well I guess there's some tragedy in that.
>Duke Wellington
The pathetic cuck who got raped by his rothschild master and then got BTFO by whigs and average brit citizens?
The guy no one remembers unless Napoleon is mentioned?
k
>Hitler where they were out to kill him no matter what from day 1
Kek. Is this copium? Before the war, Hitler was hailed (heh) as an exemplary leader who "Made Germany Great Again" by the West. He was even best buddies with Stalin. During early WWII, he was feared as Le Sasuga General, on par with General Tso Chi Kin. Later in the War, the Allies actually wanted to keep him alive because he was Germany's greatest enemy. At no time was anyone out to get Hitler from day 1. He even kys by himself.
>Before the war, Hitler was hailed (heh) as an exemplary leader who "Made Germany Great Again" by the West.
Only by people with similar politics to Hitler. Most people (especially Anglos) were either indifferent towards him or just straight up didn’t like the guy. >He was even best buddies with Stalin.
Where the frick does this meme come from? and why is it always NAFOgay posters who’ve been trying to push this shit in recent times?
Hitler and Stalin had a non aggression pact, that was it. But it was well known by everyone who had a working brain at the time that both leaders fricking despised one another and everyone who could at least read knew that Hitler’s main ambitions were within the East Slavic territory. >During early WWII, he was feared as Le Sasuga General, on par with General Tso Chi Kin.
Meds >Later in the War, the Allies actually wanted to keep him alive because he was Germany's greatest enemy.
Source? >At no time was anyone out to get Hitler from day 1.
As soon as Churchill got in power they were
Hitler and Lenin admired Lloyd George, who was "the man who won the Great War".
The reality is that Britain would have won the war with Asquith still in power. LG was all PR and bullshit but Hitler fell for it, as did Lenin and AJP Taylor.
I don't agree with that
The British were constantly trying to get him overthrown
His European 'allies' were seething non stop and just waiting for something to happen
The Russian Tsar had a religious fervour about it and thought he had a Messianic mission to remove Napoleon from power
>Alexander
you mean they guy whose shortlived empire collapsed after his death?
the guy whose centuries long dynasty ended because of him?
the guy whose family got fricked over?
the guy who set the stage for Roman conquest and complete domination of Greek world?
>you mean they guy whose shortlived empire collapsed after his death?
Everything you mentioned happened after his death >the guy whose centuries long dynasty ended because of him?
His father usurped the throne. As did most Macedonian kings. There was no "centuries long dynasty"
And Rome was inevitable. Get over it.
>cope after cope
Alexander was a charming leader and a good tactician but that's about it.
He was an awful ruler, statesman, and politician. Imagine playing the monarch game and not securing an heir.
P.S. Rome wasn't inevitable for Persia however.
I'm blaming him for not sitting down for a minute to make more kids and secure his position. All he did was CONQOOOOOOORING.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So? We aren't talking about his lineage or how he was a ruler, this is purely about military superiority that no one has ever come close to. He won every battle and died at 32. Who gives a shit if he didn't want to be a homosexual ruler sitting on a throne somewhere? There are Alexandria's all across Persia and North Africa to this day. He won.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's nothing compared to Napoleon. >There are Alexandria's all across Persia and North Africa to this day.
Absolutely false. >homosexual ruler sitting on a throne somewhere
At the end of the day, it's that "homosexual ruler sitting on a throne somewhere" that changes worlds for centuries to come.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Are you implying that Alexander didn't change the world for centuries to come?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, he didn't. His only impact was inspiring wannabe-conquerers.
If there's any historical figure that can be compared to Napoleon, it's Julius Caesar.
Correct. Although a handful of others seem likely as well.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>No, he didn't. His only impact was inspiring wannabe-conquerers.
you contradict yourself
11 months ago
Anonymous
99% of those """conquerers""" failed or were insignificant
11 months ago
Anonymous
If there's any historical figure that can be compared to Napoleon, it's Julius Caesar.
11 months ago
Anonymous
b***h he’s the reason your white trash ass family is using a last name or you’d still be announcing yourself as tard son of lard from scumville
>cope after cope
Alexander was a charming leader and a good tactician but that's about it.
He was an awful ruler, statesman, and politician. Imagine playing the monarch game and not securing an heir.
P.S. Rome wasn't inevitable for Persia however.
Are you aware that Napoleon won wars, not just battles? And that he won against coalitions several times in a row? And that he shaped modern Europe by destroying, among other things, the Germanic Roman Empire? His defeat at Waterloo can in no way erase all the rest, because the rest is unprecedented in history.
I don't think people realize how much he revolutionized modern warfare, from the concept of the Corps to using column vs. line tactics, to his understanding of artillery as the winner of most battles, he really was the first "modern" general.
I really don't understand how people did not see the attacking power of artillery while boats had been jam-packed with the same artillery since the 1600s which formed its attacking power.
I don't think people realize how much he revolutionized modern warfare, from the concept of the Corps to using column vs. line tactics, to his understanding of artillery as the winner of most battles, he really was the first "modern" general.
It's just anglo propaganda. Still seething about him 200 years later.
The 'modern anglos seethe over napoleon! muh heckin angloid seethe' narrative only exists in the heads of non-English Cinemaphile spergs. Napoleon has been admired and praised by English historians for a few generations at this point. Chandler and Roberts being the two most notable examples.
That doesn't stop the clash we see. Some's first impression of him is him being called the Anti-Christ, although with further inspections I can see he rode a wave of secularism/hero worship. In Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment, he's being called nihilist who toys with the lives of men as he pleases.
sorry to say but us spanish lay claim to the whole "napoleon = antichrist" slogan. we beat his little corsican butt in the war and i think its only right we get to call him the antichrist.
The 'modern anglos seethe over napoleon! muh heckin angloid seethe' narrative only exists in the heads of non-English Cinemaphile spergs. Napoleon has been admired and praised by English historians for a few generations at this point. Chandler and Roberts being the two most notable examples.
Britbongs seething over Napoleon only includes the obnoxious birt posters and the tory cucks in the parliament.
Brits even back then loved Napoleon, see: Lord Byron, Lord and Lady Holland, William Hazlitt, and etc.
There is definitely a strain of 'Whitehall was ALWAYS right' in modern Britbong patriots, like seething over the American Revolution even though fricking William Howe was sympathetic to the Revolutionary cause and his heart wasn't in crushing them. Still, I think you can draw some pride in the UK's role in being essentially to overcoming a titan like Napoleonic France without seething over the guy as an anti-Christ - like that satisfaction of beating a worthy opponent in a sports game
Most of those were in Spain. He only fought Napoleon at waterloo, the allies also had a strategy to avoid fighting napoleon and only fight his marshals after they united and were trying to contain him after his disaster in Russia when he was trying to salvage his empire.
It's moronic to say Wellington defeated Napoleon. Napoleon really lost in Russia and then at Leipzig, when he reemerged to pick up the scraps of France after his first exiles he was heavily outnumbered, Napoleon was trying to defeat two armies and then get a peace, he defeated the Austrian army and then when he was fighting the English army under wellington the Austrians came to reinforce Wellington.
Napoleon orchestrated a regime change in a chaotic, corrupt, murderous shit hole and turned it into the single most powerful nation in Europe that fought of every neighbor it had. Napoleon discovered the Rosetta Stone being used as a wall in Egypt and preserved it, immensely expanding the world's knowledge of ancient history. Napoleon conquered the Austro-Hungarian empire. Napoleon was so beloved by his own people that the army that was sent to arrest him when he escaped from exile surrendered to him instead.
Napoleon absolutely inherited a powerful nation like how Alexander inherited a world class army. The total war/full blown national mobilisation that really changed the game of warfare was underway before he was in control, and the army defecting to him was first and foremost a matter of the army loving Napoleon cause of how diminished they were post-Napoleon. He represented their glory days and peak privilege and prestige. Still a great man, but fricking Christ, not everything astounding about that era was down to him personally. He was still a man.
i think i remember some sort of quote from him kvetching that if he was around in the ancient era he'd have been able to be worshipped like a god, ala alexander
Yeah, Julius Caesar declared himself to be a descendant of an actual God. Great conquerors often do this, it was a perfectly reasonable thing for him to say imo.
Facing multiple world powers all dead set on forcing you out of power is heroic. Julius Caesar also 'lost' and was worshipped as a God for generations afterwards because no one cared.
Why is Wellington brought up as a rival to Napoleon when they only ever directly engaged each other once and never at the height of Napoleon's power? You don't see people hyping up von Blucher when he had more to do versus Napoleon than the Duke.
Because for obvious reasons Wellington is a national hero in Britain, and Anglophone culture is far more influential than French or German or Spanish or Russian or any other culture that was involved in the Napoleonic wars
Nobody cares about the random cartel goons who killed Llewellyn Moss in No Country for Old Men for a reason, but the British can't shut up about their victory when they're basically on their level.
You have it backwards; through cultural hegemony, the British managed to reduce other parties to the status of those cartel goons and make their own rule seem all-important. It's a lot like how Russians complain about how they actually won WWII for the allies and their role is minimized by America - it may be true, but truth can't compete with 500 Hollywood movies a year about cornfed Midwestern farm boys saving frogeaters from Adolf.
I'm not denying the publicity after the fact, I'm just saying that Napoleon was clearly a great man in the way that the Duke of Wellington clearly was not, and the massive cope about them being rivals when he tag teamed France in a weak and desperate state is not an impressive victory. Plenty of great men fail, often because they take risks no ordinary man would.
Spain was a joke under horrible leadership before 1808. It was also unreliable.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So what was Napoleon's master plan for maintaining control of Europe - just "I'll invade anyone and everyone, even my own allies, I'll just be at war for the rest of my life and everything will be fine"? He was a dead man walking, everyone would have been sharpening their knives and just waiting for him to slip up
11 months ago
Anonymous
Pretty much. He enriched France at the cost of impoverishing everyone else. France and the UK both felt the pressure of the Continental System, but the French client states/allies really fricking felt it.
I do wonder how much control men like Napoleon or Hitler would actually have had over their armies treating foreigners like shit. In the case of the Japanese, the army running amok was definitely often a spontaneous thing that drove civilian leaders in Tokyo up the wall and felt truly powerless to stop
11 months ago
Anonymous
Napoleon's master plan was to subdue Britain through ruining its economy. He never expected any of the wars after Austerlitz, he even said something along the lines "I hope to get some rest for a few years." but that didn't work obviously. >I'll invade anyone and everyone, even my own allies, I'll just be at war for the rest of my life and everything will be fine
please tell me you're not Spanish.
Still undoubtedly a major power at the time, right up until the exact moment France betrayed and raped it.
The Dutch and Bavarians shouldn't be undervalued either.
>Still undoubtedly a major power at the time, right up until the exact moment France betrayed and raped it.
It's potential as major power was unutilized thanks to Charles IV and his son. Spain betrayed France first by secretly opening negotiations with Britain after Trafalgar which they later cancelled due to Jena-Auerstadt in 1806. Napoleon learned this from his spies and Talleyrand manipulated him with that. >Dutch
Good but not strong enough against the coalition on its own. >Bavarians
Same as Dutch but also unreliable when Maximilian Joseph lost control.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>on its own.
Well that's the point of allies isn't it?
11 months ago
Anonymous
The coalition was made out of allies that could depend on themselves. All of France's allies were dependant on France.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I get your point. But again Spain is an obvious outlier.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Still undoubtedly a major power at the time, right up until the exact moment France betrayed and raped it.
The Dutch and Bavarians shouldn't be undervalued either.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Spain and Portugal were two of the largest empires in the world until Napoleon invaded Iberia, at which point all their overseas colonies decided to seize the chance and become independent. Arguably no one did more damage to European colonialism and global influence than Napoleon did
11 months ago
Anonymous
>muh overseas lands
both Portugal and Spain couldn't exert the same power and influence they could a century ago in 1808. It was obvious to everyone in Europe. Spain was literally going down the drain because its king was a moron and its politicians were more concerned with personal gain rather than ruling the country.
>Anglophone culture is far more influential than French or German or Spanish or Russian or any other culture that was involved in the Napoleonic wars
That’s only true recently. Not back then. Not one bit. For the longest time your nobility didn’t even speak English. They all spoke French cause it was le fancy
I'm sure there were prancing queers in the nobility who spoke French, but virtually all of the main British actors in the Napoleonic era - Pitt the Younger, Nelson, Wellington, etc.- spoke English.
>For the longest time your nobility didn’t even speak English. They all spoke French cause it was le fancy
Kek, they valued French as it was the language of diplomacy and lingua FRANCA but this wasn't a a post-1066 situation where they spoke a different language to the people at large
If anyone you would think they would be hyping up it would be lord Nelson because he dismantled Frances naval power. The English through most of the war though were supplying the other allies. Then when Napoleon was draining troops from Spain to go to Russia and then Liepzig Wellington started winning more.
Nelson was the bigger deal, and basically ascended to godhood when he died, but Wellington tends to be in tv and movies more because girls don't like boats. So Wellington is more well known now.
Look at the language we're trying to communicate with. Napoleon's military rival was his most loyal subordinate. His actual rival was Talleyrand yet he didn't know that.
>Is English (frick off "MUH IRISH!" gays", so feeds into the English vs. French rivarly >essentially worked his way up to Napoleon like it a vidya game, by defeating the many underlings of the arch villain before facing down the final boss >said battle against the final boss represented like the only time the British fought against Napoleon himself on land in a pitched battle (cause Acre was a siege) - FINALLY a big final face to face throwdown after years of the sea-land stalemate >on surface more accomplished than Blucher cause never really lost a battle big time - by hook or by crook, even his most hard fought ones were either tactical or tangiable stragetic victories >what the other anons wrote about Angol cultural domination post-Napoleon and then later on through American ascension after the world wars
Napoleon really had no rival, that is why the allies came up with the Trachenberg plan, where they would retreat or avoid fighting Napoleon directly and only fight his marshals.
So why did Napoleon invade Iberia, anyway? Seems like that was the mistake that precipitated his downfall. I know he wanted to cut off British trade to the continent, but he was sitting pretty after winning all those wars, did he really have to drive the knife in to Britain that badly?
It wasn't really an invasion. >France and Spain together invaded Portugal to force trade blockade >Since French troops were already in strategic positions across Spain it won't hurt to try a takeover >Bourbon family ruling Spain was embarrassingly corrupt and incompetent >Napoleon's only control over Spain was through prime minister Manuel Godoy who was an incompetent moron (Napoleon disliked him as well) >Spain gradually tried to back out of allaince with France after Trafalgar and Napoleon learned this from his spies >Napoleon was advised by Talleyrand to that because Spain was a "useless" ally >Napoleon thought Spain can be a better ally under closer control with reforms (Spanish army was outdated compared to French army) >Napoleon didn't realize Spanish people would resist liberal reforms and support the catholic church
Iberia was fine, he just didn't solidify his control of it and continued to just drain troops from there. His downfall was invading Russia and losing most of his 600k men which then lead to allies abandoning him and working together against him. Iberian forces were still fighting after Napoleon abdicated, it wasn't really something that lead to his downfall.
I think it's wrong to downplay the role of the British in the Napoleonic Wars
They spent a ridiculous amount of money on the wars, sending money and weapons to anyone who'd take them
The men in the navy who worked non stop on the blockade also have a right to be credited
The point is that the single most "fair" battle the British had with Napoleon was the naval battle that Nelson won, but Waterloo was not an impressive victory when you had multiple world powers all marching on France at once.
Not to mention when he came back he lost a lot of his Marshals and his new chief of staff was no Berthier. The loss at Warterloo, after he came back from exile, wasn't really because of Wellington, he was very outnumbered on top of not having the same kind of army he had before his initial loss.
>Duke Willington shills in thread >not a single anon calling him out
Ok Captain Sharpe, how many King's shillings are you getting paid to trash good ol' Boney's name?
Not a very kino ending. The French just seethe that the final battle in the age old rivalry was a decisive bong victory.
Unless you count mers-el-kebir as the final battle. But we won that one too lol.
The Prussians arriving was quite literally "Heh, all according to plan" for Wellington, not some hysterical "OH THANK GOD, DELIVERANCE! DELIVERANCE!!" moment. Wellington only decided to stand and hold the French with Prussian assurance that they would evade Grouchy and join the battle several hours into it. Wellington and Blucher's overriding goals were always to link up because they both realised that, alone, Napoleon would probably win, hence the thrashings the Prussians received in the days before Waterloo
>look this guy up >died of anemia due to thrombosed hemroid >currently have severe anemia due to bleeding hemroids I put off for years, can hardly stand
I wonder how many anons in this thread and once like it are either British or French. If Cinemaphile showed flags what would I be seeing? It's like whenever I see threads and America and Britain it always comes across as if it is dominated by anons from neither.
>45 years old
Shame they decided to age everyone up except Josephine.
>In 1806 Davout certainly did not look the part of a corps commander, and he was largely without any of the social graces. Correct deportment in polite society was a desirable trait for the emperor’s senior officers. Napoleon was rebuilding the French court, complete with finery, elaborate events, and hierarchal ranks for the growing classes of new nobility.
>Davout did not seem to fit in polite society. Following a social visit from him, the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld summed up the episode by saying:“Marshal Davout’s visit has been got over. It was a weary business trying to enliven him, for it is impossible to be more stolid and uncommunicative than was this thoroughly unpleasant man.”
>To some, his disagreeable demeanor was exceeded by his appearance. The III Corps commander looked more like a monk or bookseller than a dashing battlefield leader. Despite his youth, the crown of his head was completely bald. He sometimes looked a bit plump and had rather girlish lips.
>The most striking facet of his appearance is that in an age when poor eyesight was deemed a weakness he wore glasses— a rarity in that era and unheard-of for a senior commander in Napoleon’s army. In battle he used a special frame for his glasses, one that could be strapped to his head. During the early part of his military career, he garnered an unwelcome reputation for slovenly dress, an attribute well known to irritate the emperor. Nevertheless, he had the emperor’s trust.
Tragic heroes are.... le bad!
>Losers are le good!
>winning and losing decides your value as an individual
This is not a liberal view
Wellington won the war at the cost of the Empire becoming the thralls of the Rothschilds.
The British sold their souls to the israelites to win their petty war against Napoleon.
This.
at the same time the french empire was crawling with freemasons. a pox on both houses.
napoleon was a brilliant general but he was not intelectually sovereign.
>Britain does something
>but the israelites!
frick off
yeah..shit's fricked
He's a kino villain. He even does that thing good villains do where he's defeated once and then makes a comeback against all odds before he's finally defeated for good.
fricking kino
hmm that's a good point
>orry anons, but Napolean isn't Kino. He lost
thats precisely the kino
he had it all, then he lost
Is Wellington kino? probably not
Napoleon isn't really tragic because it's not like with Hitler where they were out to kill him no matter what from day 1, they gave Napoleon like 4 chances to stop and keep everything he had conquered and get away with everything if only he stopped going too far but he had to get it on cause he was addicted to the action more than anything. Well I guess there's some tragedy in that.
>Duke Wellington
The pathetic cuck who got raped by his rothschild master and then got BTFO by whigs and average brit citizens?
The guy no one remembers unless Napoleon is mentioned?
k
delusional
uncanny resemblance
>treating historical figures like Marvel superheroes
moronic mutt.
>implying they weren't going to raise their armies and train while he was in exile
>Hitler where they were out to kill him no matter what from day 1
Kek. Is this copium? Before the war, Hitler was hailed (heh) as an exemplary leader who "Made Germany Great Again" by the West. He was even best buddies with Stalin. During early WWII, he was feared as Le Sasuga General, on par with General Tso Chi Kin. Later in the War, the Allies actually wanted to keep him alive because he was Germany's greatest enemy. At no time was anyone out to get Hitler from day 1. He even kys by himself.
>execute everyone in his command that didn't already commit sudoku
>but they were totes McGoats gonna leave le hitler live, trust me!
After crushing their balls too.
>Before the war, Hitler was hailed (heh) as an exemplary leader who "Made Germany Great Again" by the West.
Only by people with similar politics to Hitler. Most people (especially Anglos) were either indifferent towards him or just straight up didn’t like the guy.
>He was even best buddies with Stalin.
Where the frick does this meme come from? and why is it always NAFOgay posters who’ve been trying to push this shit in recent times?
Hitler and Stalin had a non aggression pact, that was it. But it was well known by everyone who had a working brain at the time that both leaders fricking despised one another and everyone who could at least read knew that Hitler’s main ambitions were within the East Slavic territory.
>During early WWII, he was feared as Le Sasuga General, on par with General Tso Chi Kin.
Meds
>Later in the War, the Allies actually wanted to keep him alive because he was Germany's greatest enemy.
Source?
>At no time was anyone out to get Hitler from day 1.
As soon as Churchill got in power they were
Hitler and Lenin admired Lloyd George, who was "the man who won the Great War".
The reality is that Britain would have won the war with Asquith still in power. LG was all PR and bullshit but Hitler fell for it, as did Lenin and AJP Taylor.
Why did they have like 15 running assassination plots on him then?
Napoleon was a freemason, like Ridley Scott. He was one of them, a tyrant of the globohomosexual cabal. Hitler was an enemy of freemasons.
I don't agree with that
The British were constantly trying to get him overthrown
His European 'allies' were seething non stop and just waiting for something to happen
The Russian Tsar had a religious fervour about it and thought he had a Messianic mission to remove Napoleon from power
>Duke Wellington
This guy is only famous because of Gordon Ramsay who learned how to cook... from the french.
Wellington WISHES he won half the battles Nap did lol you could give Nap a modern day military and he would still wipe the floor with anyone.
>give Nap a modern day military and he would still wipe the floor with anyone.
lol
napoleongays are delusional
the eternal anglo, undermining europe since whenever
Everyone loses eventually, except Alexander.
Gengis?
>Alexander
you mean they guy whose shortlived empire collapsed after his death?
the guy whose centuries long dynasty ended because of him?
the guy whose family got fricked over?
the guy who set the stage for Roman conquest and complete domination of Greek world?
>you mean they guy whose shortlived empire collapsed after his death?
Everything you mentioned happened after his death
>the guy whose centuries long dynasty ended because of him?
His father usurped the throne. As did most Macedonian kings. There was no "centuries long dynasty"
And Rome was inevitable. Get over it.
>cope after cope
Alexander was a charming leader and a good tactician but that's about it.
He was an awful ruler, statesman, and politician. Imagine playing the monarch game and not securing an heir.
P.S. Rome wasn't inevitable for Persia however.
You're blaming him for being poisoned at 32.
Ok, fair enough, but that's all it comes down to.
I'm blaming him for not sitting down for a minute to make more kids and secure his position. All he did was CONQOOOOOOORING.
So? We aren't talking about his lineage or how he was a ruler, this is purely about military superiority that no one has ever come close to. He won every battle and died at 32. Who gives a shit if he didn't want to be a homosexual ruler sitting on a throne somewhere? There are Alexandria's all across Persia and North Africa to this day. He won.
He's nothing compared to Napoleon.
>There are Alexandria's all across Persia and North Africa to this day.
Absolutely false.
>homosexual ruler sitting on a throne somewhere
At the end of the day, it's that "homosexual ruler sitting on a throne somewhere" that changes worlds for centuries to come.
Are you implying that Alexander didn't change the world for centuries to come?
No, he didn't. His only impact was inspiring wannabe-conquerers.
Correct. Although a handful of others seem likely as well.
>No, he didn't. His only impact was inspiring wannabe-conquerers.
you contradict yourself
99% of those """conquerers""" failed or were insignificant
If there's any historical figure that can be compared to Napoleon, it's Julius Caesar.
b***h he’s the reason your white trash ass family is using a last name or you’d still be announcing yourself as tard son of lard from scumville
???
>poisoned
He died from STDs.
Brown hands typed these posts.
I accept your concession.
Never ceases to amaze me how butt flustered brits still get over the French lol.
If Wellington won why didn't he make himself Emperor of the British?
lack of vision
Got'em.
For me? It's Marshal Ney, the kinoest of the generals
Napoleon losing (twice) doesn't negate the fact that he won consistently and conquered all of Europe up to that point.
losing in the end does in fact negate all victories up to that point
No. No it does not.
No it doesn't. No ruler or empire lasts forever.
like many things the original was better and Caesar was better
>H-Hey, don't forget about moi.
Oh look, it's the Hero of Sedan!
>France literally fallen and conquered by Algerian pirates
>Napoleon kino about to drop
Sirs? I think the guillotine is about to make a comeback.
Yeah, against the chuds who speak out against wogs
>"What's with the filter and shit!?"
uhm the prussians won waterloo.
>the subject matter of two of the greatest books of all time isn't kino
well memed op
kys
>the subject matter of two of the greatest books of all time
"War and Peace" and..."Master and Commander"?
did he though?
Are you aware that Napoleon won wars, not just battles? And that he won against coalitions several times in a row? And that he shaped modern Europe by destroying, among other things, the Germanic Roman Empire? His defeat at Waterloo can in no way erase all the rest, because the rest is unprecedented in history.
I don't think people realize how much he revolutionized modern warfare, from the concept of the Corps to using column vs. line tactics, to his understanding of artillery as the winner of most battles, he really was the first "modern" general.
artillery had been recognized as the pivotal branch of arms for two centuries before napoleon
No. Artillery was always used as a support detachment. It was Napoleon who frequently used massed artillery as an aggressive tool to weaken the enemy.
I really don't understand how people did not see the attacking power of artillery while boats had been jam-packed with the same artillery since the 1600s which formed its attacking power.
And don't forget the logistics. Napoleon was even more of a logistic genius than a tactical genius (and he was a tactical genius still).
This is same logic as digging a big hole and filling it back up.
It's just anglo propaganda. Still seething about him 200 years later.
The 'modern anglos seethe over napoleon! muh heckin angloid seethe' narrative only exists in the heads of non-English Cinemaphile spergs. Napoleon has been admired and praised by English historians for a few generations at this point. Chandler and Roberts being the two most notable examples.
That doesn't stop the clash we see. Some's first impression of him is him being called the Anti-Christ, although with further inspections I can see he rode a wave of secularism/hero worship. In Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment, he's being called nihilist who toys with the lives of men as he pleases.
sorry to say but us spanish lay claim to the whole "napoleon = antichrist" slogan. we beat his little corsican butt in the war and i think its only right we get to call him the antichrist.
Britbongs seething over Napoleon only includes the obnoxious birt posters and the tory cucks in the parliament.
Brits even back then loved Napoleon, see: Lord Byron, Lord and Lady Holland, William Hazlitt, and etc.
There is definitely a strain of 'Whitehall was ALWAYS right' in modern Britbong patriots, like seething over the American Revolution even though fricking William Howe was sympathetic to the Revolutionary cause and his heart wasn't in crushing them. Still, I think you can draw some pride in the UK's role in being essentially to overcoming a titan like Napoleonic France without seething over the guy as an anti-Christ - like that satisfaction of beating a worthy opponent in a sports game
Napoleon no! Don't write that!
bump
I'm pretty sure he actually only lost like 2-3 battles that were under his direct command, he commanded like 40+ battles.
Most of those were in Spain. He only fought Napoleon at waterloo, the allies also had a strategy to avoid fighting napoleon and only fight his marshals after they united and were trying to contain him after his disaster in Russia when he was trying to salvage his empire.
It's moronic to say Wellington defeated Napoleon. Napoleon really lost in Russia and then at Leipzig, when he reemerged to pick up the scraps of France after his first exiles he was heavily outnumbered, Napoleon was trying to defeat two armies and then get a peace, he defeated the Austrian army and then when he was fighting the English army under wellington the Austrians came to reinforce Wellington.
The tragedy/downfall part is significant to why his story is kino. Began on a backward island, died on a backward island.
Napoleon orchestrated a regime change in a chaotic, corrupt, murderous shit hole and turned it into the single most powerful nation in Europe that fought of every neighbor it had. Napoleon discovered the Rosetta Stone being used as a wall in Egypt and preserved it, immensely expanding the world's knowledge of ancient history. Napoleon conquered the Austro-Hungarian empire. Napoleon was so beloved by his own people that the army that was sent to arrest him when he escaped from exile surrendered to him instead.
Imagine believing this bullshit.
Refute him.
Napoleon absolutely inherited a powerful nation like how Alexander inherited a world class army. The total war/full blown national mobilisation that really changed the game of warfare was underway before he was in control, and the army defecting to him was first and foremost a matter of the army loving Napoleon cause of how diminished they were post-Napoleon. He represented their glory days and peak privilege and prestige. Still a great man, but fricking Christ, not everything astounding about that era was down to him personally. He was still a man.
i think i remember some sort of quote from him kvetching that if he was around in the ancient era he'd have been able to be worshipped like a god, ala alexander
Yeah, Julius Caesar declared himself to be a descendant of an actual God. Great conquerors often do this, it was a perfectly reasonable thing for him to say imo.
reasonable for him to say, embarrassing to have it written down, doubly so when you, you know, lose
Facing multiple world powers all dead set on forcing you out of power is heroic. Julius Caesar also 'lost' and was worshipped as a God for generations afterwards because no one cared.
Why is Wellington brought up as a rival to Napoleon when they only ever directly engaged each other once and never at the height of Napoleon's power? You don't see people hyping up von Blucher when he had more to do versus Napoleon than the Duke.
Because for the British the Napoleonic wars were Waterloo and Trafalgar with some skirmishes in Spain like in Sharpe
Because for obvious reasons Wellington is a national hero in Britain, and Anglophone culture is far more influential than French or German or Spanish or Russian or any other culture that was involved in the Napoleonic wars
It just sounds so butthurt and forced from them.
>4v1 yeah I beat you, I'm your nemesis and I beat you.
Nobody cares about the random cartel goons who killed Llewellyn Moss in No Country for Old Men for a reason, but the British can't shut up about their victory when they're basically on their level.
You have it backwards; through cultural hegemony, the British managed to reduce other parties to the status of those cartel goons and make their own rule seem all-important. It's a lot like how Russians complain about how they actually won WWII for the allies and their role is minimized by America - it may be true, but truth can't compete with 500 Hollywood movies a year about cornfed Midwestern farm boys saving frogeaters from Adolf.
Everyone knows it was the British that beat Germany.
I'm not denying the publicity after the fact, I'm just saying that Napoleon was clearly a great man in the way that the Duke of Wellington clearly was not, and the massive cope about them being rivals when he tag teamed France in a weak and desperate state is not an impressive victory. Plenty of great men fail, often because they take risks no ordinary man would.
France had loads of allies dickhead.
None of France's allies were independent great powers unlike the coalition + German allies of France were unreliable.
This
The Austrians conspired to work against Napoleon during his invasion of Russia
One of them was, until France invaded it lmao.
Spain was a joke under horrible leadership before 1808. It was also unreliable.
So what was Napoleon's master plan for maintaining control of Europe - just "I'll invade anyone and everyone, even my own allies, I'll just be at war for the rest of my life and everything will be fine"? He was a dead man walking, everyone would have been sharpening their knives and just waiting for him to slip up
Pretty much. He enriched France at the cost of impoverishing everyone else. France and the UK both felt the pressure of the Continental System, but the French client states/allies really fricking felt it.
I do wonder how much control men like Napoleon or Hitler would actually have had over their armies treating foreigners like shit. In the case of the Japanese, the army running amok was definitely often a spontaneous thing that drove civilian leaders in Tokyo up the wall and felt truly powerless to stop
Napoleon's master plan was to subdue Britain through ruining its economy. He never expected any of the wars after Austerlitz, he even said something along the lines "I hope to get some rest for a few years." but that didn't work obviously.
>I'll invade anyone and everyone, even my own allies, I'll just be at war for the rest of my life and everything will be fine
please tell me you're not Spanish.
>Still undoubtedly a major power at the time, right up until the exact moment France betrayed and raped it.
It's potential as major power was unutilized thanks to Charles IV and his son. Spain betrayed France first by secretly opening negotiations with Britain after Trafalgar which they later cancelled due to Jena-Auerstadt in 1806. Napoleon learned this from his spies and Talleyrand manipulated him with that.
>Dutch
Good but not strong enough against the coalition on its own.
>Bavarians
Same as Dutch but also unreliable when Maximilian Joseph lost control.
>on its own.
Well that's the point of allies isn't it?
The coalition was made out of allies that could depend on themselves. All of France's allies were dependant on France.
I get your point. But again Spain is an obvious outlier.
Still undoubtedly a major power at the time, right up until the exact moment France betrayed and raped it.
The Dutch and Bavarians shouldn't be undervalued either.
Spain and Portugal were two of the largest empires in the world until Napoleon invaded Iberia, at which point all their overseas colonies decided to seize the chance and become independent. Arguably no one did more damage to European colonialism and global influence than Napoleon did
>muh overseas lands
both Portugal and Spain couldn't exert the same power and influence they could a century ago in 1808. It was obvious to everyone in Europe. Spain was literally going down the drain because its king was a moron and its politicians were more concerned with personal gain rather than ruling the country.
>Anglophone culture is far more influential than French or German or Spanish or Russian or any other culture that was involved in the Napoleonic wars
That’s only true recently. Not back then. Not one bit. For the longest time your nobility didn’t even speak English. They all spoke French cause it was le fancy
I'm sure there were prancing queers in the nobility who spoke French, but virtually all of the main British actors in the Napoleonic era - Pitt the Younger, Nelson, Wellington, etc.- spoke English.
Uhh...AKSHUALLY wellesley spoke French with his allies because they couldn't speak English.
This is why Napoleon ran a train on continental Europe but never managed to conquer Britain - the continentals were mentally cucked already
AKSHUALLY all of our ruling elites were fluent in french but we had le navy
"Lingua franca" has an origin.
I always find it... I don't know what would be the best word peculiar(?) that that term is French but the lingua franca is English.
the name is a subtle joke
they didn't initially speak it because it was le fancy, they spoke it because they were french lol
Both are true anon. Brits will forever be mogged by the Frenchies and they will forever seethe because of it.
>For the longest time your nobility didn’t even speak English. They all spoke French cause it was le fancy
Kek, they valued French as it was the language of diplomacy and lingua FRANCA but this wasn't a a post-1066 situation where they spoke a different language to the people at large
I too played the English in Medieval Total War 2.
I never played that
They spoke French because their kings were literally French during that time.
If anyone you would think they would be hyping up it would be lord Nelson because he dismantled Frances naval power. The English through most of the war though were supplying the other allies. Then when Napoleon was draining troops from Spain to go to Russia and then Liepzig Wellington started winning more.
Nelson was the bigger deal, and basically ascended to godhood when he died, but Wellington tends to be in tv and movies more because girls don't like boats. So Wellington is more well known now.
Look at the language we're trying to communicate with. Napoleon's military rival was his most loyal subordinate. His actual rival was Talleyrand yet he didn't know that.
>Look at the language we're trying to communicate with.
We're speaking American.
we're not speaking hebrew
>Is English (frick off "MUH IRISH!" gays", so feeds into the English vs. French rivarly
>essentially worked his way up to Napoleon like it a vidya game, by defeating the many underlings of the arch villain before facing down the final boss
>said battle against the final boss represented like the only time the British fought against Napoleon himself on land in a pitched battle (cause Acre was a siege) - FINALLY a big final face to face throwdown after years of the sea-land stalemate
>on surface more accomplished than Blucher cause never really lost a battle big time - by hook or by crook, even his most hard fought ones were either tactical or tangiable stragetic victories
>what the other anons wrote about Angol cultural domination post-Napoleon and then later on through American ascension after the world wars
for me it was the india tutorial
Napoleon really had no rival, that is why the allies came up with the Trachenberg plan, where they would retreat or avoid fighting Napoleon directly and only fight his marshals.
No onions for Austrian dogs!
So why did Napoleon invade Iberia, anyway? Seems like that was the mistake that precipitated his downfall. I know he wanted to cut off British trade to the continent, but he was sitting pretty after winning all those wars, did he really have to drive the knife in to Britain that badly?
Napoleon's insane ambition was what got him to the top and it's also what caused his downfall. That's part of what makes his story compelling.
It wasn't really an invasion.
>France and Spain together invaded Portugal to force trade blockade
>Since French troops were already in strategic positions across Spain it won't hurt to try a takeover
>Bourbon family ruling Spain was embarrassingly corrupt and incompetent
>Napoleon's only control over Spain was through prime minister Manuel Godoy who was an incompetent moron (Napoleon disliked him as well)
>Spain gradually tried to back out of allaince with France after Trafalgar and Napoleon learned this from his spies
>Napoleon was advised by Talleyrand to that because Spain was a "useless" ally
>Napoleon thought Spain can be a better ally under closer control with reforms (Spanish army was outdated compared to French army)
>Napoleon didn't realize Spanish people would resist liberal reforms and support the catholic church
Iberia was fine, he just didn't solidify his control of it and continued to just drain troops from there. His downfall was invading Russia and losing most of his 600k men which then lead to allies abandoning him and working together against him. Iberian forces were still fighting after Napoleon abdicated, it wasn't really something that lead to his downfall.
I think it's wrong to downplay the role of the British in the Napoleonic Wars
They spent a ridiculous amount of money on the wars, sending money and weapons to anyone who'd take them
The men in the navy who worked non stop on the blockade also have a right to be credited
We're not downplaying the average Brits, we're shitting on Wellington and his israeli masters.
The point is that the single most "fair" battle the British had with Napoleon was the naval battle that Nelson won, but Waterloo was not an impressive victory when you had multiple world powers all marching on France at once.
Not to mention when he came back he lost a lot of his Marshals and his new chief of staff was no Berthier. The loss at Warterloo, after he came back from exile, wasn't really because of Wellington, he was very outnumbered on top of not having the same kind of army he had before his initial loss.
>tfw I realise Cinemaphile is going to become full of histards and poltards b***hing about how awesome or shit Napoleon and Britain were.
While dressed as Ken.
I'm just happy to have an opportunity to discuss Napoleon. Cause he's literally the most kino individual to ever live
>Duke Willington shills in thread
>not a single anon calling him out
Ok Captain Sharpe, how many King's shillings are you getting paid to trash good ol' Boney's name?
they do it for free
if waterloo was lost by the brits and prussians wasnt an overwhelming force of austrians or russians or something just a few days' march away?
Not a very kino ending. The French just seethe that the final battle in the age old rivalry was a decisive bong victory.
Unless you count mers-el-kebir as the final battle. But we won that one too lol.
An army surrendering to a man they're sent to arrest is as kino as it gets.
Prussians after losing to Napoleon in the battle before came back to save the bongs at waterloo
The Prussians arriving was quite literally "Heh, all according to plan" for Wellington, not some hysterical "OH THANK GOD, DELIVERANCE! DELIVERANCE!!" moment. Wellington only decided to stand and hold the French with Prussian assurance that they would evade Grouchy and join the battle several hours into it. Wellington and Blucher's overriding goals were always to link up because they both realised that, alone, Napoleon would probably win, hence the thrashings the Prussians received in the days before Waterloo
think the new movie will have a scene where napoleon seriosuly considers converting to islam?
>bet it all on germans being worthwhile allies
Why did he make this mistake
>look this guy up
>died of anemia due to thrombosed hemroid
>currently have severe anemia due to bleeding hemroids I put off for years, can hardly stand
Frick…. he’s literally me
All empires fall
I wonder how many anons in this thread and once like it are either British or French. If Cinemaphile showed flags what would I be seeing? It's like whenever I see threads and America and Britain it always comes across as if it is dominated by anons from neither.
I'm British of course.
appropriate that the irish one is blacker
Napoleon may honestly be the most kino man to have ever existed. There was a reason Kubrick was autistically obsessed with him
Wellington is only remembered relatively to Napoléon, not the other way around. He's a footnote on Napoléon's life.
>ugly
>boring
>wore fricking glasses
>always loyal
>NEVER FRICKING LOST
I hope they do my boy justice
>ugly
speak for yourself
he's gonna be played by a moroccan in ridley's newest slop
>frick it, just get someone bald
>ugly
Is that why he's played by a non-white in the upcoming movie? That's where they could fill some quota?
>45 years old
Shame they decided to age everyone up except Josephine.
>In 1806 Davout certainly did not look the part of a corps commander, and he was largely without any of the social graces. Correct deportment in polite society was a desirable trait for the emperor’s senior officers. Napoleon was rebuilding the French court, complete with finery, elaborate events, and hierarchal ranks for the growing classes of new nobility.
>Davout did not seem to fit in polite society. Following a social visit from him, the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld summed up the episode by saying:“Marshal Davout’s visit has been got over. It was a weary business trying to enliven him, for it is impossible to be more stolid and uncommunicative than was this thoroughly unpleasant man.”
>To some, his disagreeable demeanor was exceeded by his appearance. The III Corps commander looked more like a monk or bookseller than a dashing battlefield leader. Despite his youth, the crown of his head was completely bald. He sometimes looked a bit plump and had rather girlish lips.
>The most striking facet of his appearance is that in an age when poor eyesight was deemed a weakness he wore glasses— a rarity in that era and unheard-of for a senior commander in Napoleon’s army. In battle he used a special frame for his glasses, one that could be strapped to his head. During the early part of his military career, he garnered an unwelcome reputation for slovenly dress, an attribute well known to irritate the emperor. Nevertheless, he had the emperor’s trust.
Napoleon was a hero.
Fry was the definitive Duke of Wellington in BlackAdder the Third.