I think it's time we admit that it was more good than bad
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Spider-Man
I think it's time we admit that it was more good than bad
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No, it was DeMatteis and bad
DeFalco, Kavanagh, Mackie, and Dezago were good too
That's all I've been hearing from you idiots for the past year.
Recency bias. Zoomers are convinced Spider-Man now is the worst it's ever been.
They couldn't handle the Clone Saga as originally published, as 2 omnibus with shit omited its passable, 7 interconnected books a month + random miniseries and one shots for 32 months is a different animal.
Zoomers also hates Miles
How bad was fan reaction at the time?
Mixed. Older fans and media hated it from the start.Wizard magazine shit on constantly but younger fans like myself couldn't get enough and it was a top seller for Marvel, I personally had only started following Spider-Man about 3 years before hand so I had no deep connection with Peter Parker and MJ as characters and the Ben books were fun since Aunt May and Peter's were finally out of the book. Younger readers now may not know just how awful Spider-Man's parents were. Basically Aunt May and Richard Parker would watch Spider-Man fight someone on tv and then argue whether Spider-Man should or shouldn't kill them, while Richard continues to just poke holes in the book by questioning Peter's upbring and this went on for years and when it became to much Peter had a mental breakdown and was eating out of garbage cans and Aunt May had a stroke and 1 month later the clone saga began.
The Clone Saga itself didn't get noticeably bad until the Jackal came back and started bogging the book down in absurd fake outs and continuity from the 70's
This recollection is correct, only oldgays at the time were angry
With the benefit of hindsight i would say the bad part of the saga is the maximum cloneage tied era. The start was much stronger than the book had been and the ending was genuinely good. And you had stuff like lost years, redemption and 400 to come out of it.
Kind of? It means marvel can make money out of it, which is what the company ultimately cares about.
I just hope Marvel fixes Ben soon
See I get why it was hated back then. Having to juggle that many books and dealing with the retcon shit they were pulling month to month would’ve been awful.
But looking at it now as the completed project I think there’s a lot of good stories in there. Way more than to just outright dismiss it all as “clone saga bad”
Clones are stupid.
You're stupid
it was only gonna be good if they ended up hooking up ben and peter
based clonecest enjoyers
nice to see some like-minded people in this thread
I wonder if Peter and Ben ever jerked each other off and justified it as masturbation.
It was bad.
Bad bad bad
>who could've guessed that miles morales will steal another peter associated title?
Marvel Launches a Giant-Sized Celebration for the 50th Anniversary of Giant-Size Storytelling
Celebrate the impact and legacy of 1970s' Giant-Size issues with all new Giant-Size one-shots next year, starting with Cody Ziglar and Iban Coello's 'Giant-Size Spider-Man' #1 in January.
First up, MILES MORALES: SPIDER-MAN scribe Cody Ziglar and Marvel Stormbreaker artist Iban Coello spin a showdown between the next generation’s Spider-Man and Venom in GIANT-SIZE SPIDER-MAN #1! Dylan Brock has a bone…or a brain…to pick with Miles Morales in a GIANT-SIZED Spidey story that can’t be missed! GIANT-SIZE SPIDER-MAN #1 will also reprint ULTIMATE COMICS: SPIDER-MAN #22 by Spidey-legends Brian Michael Bendis and Sara Pichelli that features the epic conclusion of Miles' first battle with Ultimate Venom!
GIANT-SIZE SPIDER-MAN #1
Written by CODY ZIGLAR
Art by IBAN COELLO
Cover by BRYAN HITCH
On Sale 1/10
Check out superstar artist Bryan Hitch’s cover for GIANT-SIZE SPIDER-MAN #1 below and stay tuned for more giant-sized announcements in the months ahead!
I betcha they'll use Web of Spider-Man for a Miles book one day
That anatomy is fricked
asm 36 var
It's just mean
Paul's cum sleeve, unironically
Fricking stop.
>paul please stop cumming inside my self-insert waifu
make him
Get a life, homosexual.
Stop spamming this garbage homosexual fanfiction character.
just report his ass for offtopic, evasion and trolling
It's not offtopic since this a Spider-Man thread besides it is canon.
>i-it’s canon!!! here’s a panel of them on the edges of the bed farthest from another barely holding hands!
Paul fricking MJ is canon and on-topic anon. You might not like it, but it is.
Ban evading ain't tho.
I was never banned for discussing Paul and MJ's sex life or Peter Parker's status as a cuck. Those are true and relevant topics of Spider-Man discussion. Again anon, you might not like it, but that's how it is. This is the state of Spider-Man.
Polak back at it? It's the same image files too bruh.
Indeed, Peter PArker being a pathetic cuckold is a vital part of his image. It's why most Spider threads end up with anons fighting on which of his love interests have cucked him the most.
>My favourite character are those that commit genocide and rape.
Weird preference, but you do you, anon.
whatever that means. Probably new art but I'm checked out from symbiote titles so dunno
oh hey, sleeper 😀
venom 27 var
who is this supposed to be?
Black Widow in a Symbiote
I don't think so
no love unlimited yet. Confused it with another mileyshit. Miles sucking up to x-men. No spider-man, no rip. spider-man unlimited in a bit.
where does insomniac-man get the money for all those gadgets anyway?
Sony
Despite how mediocre this is, thank you for storytiming it
His costume’s so bad. What was wrong with using the standard suit in the game?
literally everyone agrees the gadgets (and the matrix espically), were lame as hell
>the literal plot of the game shows him giving people the benifit of the doubt and trying to work with people who were agressive to him and see their point of view only to be fricked over and BTFO'd by them
>the only people who were able to help him beat them were people who were always supportive of him and assistied him during his falls
is this the same character?
Why’d they make Spidey so fricking lame?
I see why zoomers are becoming moronic. I couldn't even get through this fight scene without my brain starting to hurt from the terrible dialogue.
for fricks sake gage. Stop saying DUDE, spider-man isn't fricking teenager. This is physically painful to read
Peter, what? You're a grown ass man, will you stop falling for villains BS when they tell you that you can save your loved ones.
>Undercutting a serious moment with a Will Smith Oscar’s slap reference
Why?
The 60s thought 80s stuff was neat. The 90s were fine and gave us 2099 spidey and spider girl. 2000s I was reading ultimate until issues 160(2011 I think) and I never got into JMS' run or the band new day ASM stuff.
>keep May’s name —
>—OUT OF YOUR MOUTH
Spider Smith
So PS4 spidey is equally as moronic as main spidey?
They should have given him acidic webbing
All modern Spider-Men are moronic. It’s what happens when writers softened him up to be as safe as a mascot character. He’s got ZERO edge and is a general dork. Shit sucks.
I know that. I mean why would PS4 man trust some villain on bringing his aunt back to life. I know shit hurts but he seem to be pasted that by the end of the game and in the PS5 spin off.
Dude is said by ~40 year old gen Xers and millennials, it's not a teenage thing anymore
Zoomers in their 20s still say it.
Can confirm since I'm one
that's all. Might as well mentioned all the times aunt may died. Considering OMD happened this is whole thing is insanely retarted. 616 peter have no moral ground
>I have no idea what you're going through
>Except for that time I did think my May was dead
>And that other time she was buried alive
>And that OTHER other time she was shot by a bullet meant for me
>Did I mention my daughter died too?
Yeah, uhhhhh also having two Spider-Men fight over not stopping the Spot is dumb.
We don't mention the baby. We dropped the plotpoint of the Baby Anon.
>We don't mention the baby
Cantwell re-opened that wound and I can't let it go again
Out of all the people, how the frick does Norman remember?
there's no proof Norman does, tbh. You'd think with him being sinless and all he'd mention kidnapping and maybe killing Mayday, but he never does, so that only leaves the conclusion that he doesn't remember (for some reason, perhaps because of OMD frickery).
Hell, with Peter having his sins right now, Peter should know about Mayday, but all he cares about is MUH GWEN
So who is "the baby" Norman referenced on his of people he fricked over in gold goblin issue 1?
Mayday probably, but due to OMD fricking up everyone's memories, it also affected Norman.
he didn't write the list. He acknowledges it exists there, but he doesn't comment on it further. I think it was Ben-Chasm, since he fricks over his suit in uhhhh, one of the Dark Web issues. Which means Ben does remember Mayday, but he offers no more info about it and isn't in a state to do so right now. It is 100% meant to be Mayday, but it's intentionally left vague because Marvel.
Did Ben even know about Mongrain?
he might've. I'm more amused by Andreas von Strucker being on the list since that's the one guy I figure Ben would look at and go
>yeah, Norman was right to shank him
So how does Ben remember?
honestly, who the frick knows. That would entail the good ol' BND crew having any idea what they would actually do with this rewritten universe.
very cute
yassss, I love pointless Spider-Gwen covers!
Honestly feel like that green goblins right now when it comes to "the baby" thing
Well that's just lame
it's just le hecking reference. Don't think hard about it
It was Kafka.
Zoomers are right for once then.
I thought it was pretty obvious that Kafka did it
I don't mind clones, but they need to stop using them to
>bring Gwen back to guilt trip Peter for the millionth time
>retcon stories they're too stupid to solve otherwise
>bring back a character (Harry, Kraven) when there are better way to do it or, y'know, no need
in a pinch they're fine, Ben is nice
also hamster time
>dan slott thread up
>peter parker love interest thread up
all the schizos got their own thread, it’s no wonder the spidey general is dead. wanna say i’m surprised but i’m not.
Frick you, you can't make me a liar.
Yeah that arc was great
How come Traveler havent returned yet? They keep bringing any nonsense from the past, but not him? Maybe they could finally explain, what was his frickin deal.
he was in some very recent X-comic, wasn't he? I don't read that shit, so I've no clue what happened with that
Holy shit, so he was. Huh. So someone at marvel does remember him.
All Clone saga characters are back for some shit that will happen soon.
Are there any rumours?
Yeah unfortunately
Ben won't be fixed when this run ends
The one who can unfrick him is Mephisto.
Elaborate please
I know someone did a Family Guy death pose with Peter, but Gwen should have one as well
Looks familiar
Akira San seethed
You're right anon
I always felt like Ben Reilly and Kaine should have been one character. Kaine feels like a natural progression of Ben had it not been for deterioration.
Kaine was great as an anti villain and his costume was cool. Much better than his Scarlet Spider one
Kaine developed into Lost Years Ben but angrier
Nope. A mistake from setup to execution to handwringing after. What a fricking shit show. Ben was the biggest mistake until Sins Past, and the only reason he isn't bigger is they realized their frickup and killed him.
Ben was great though, he was always seen as the good part of the clone saga
No, he wasn't. If he was, they could have just made him Peter Parker at the end. Or salvaged him. Instead, they killed him and moved on and joked about how bad the arc was for years.
I was there. Ben fans always try to rewrite history, because comics fans think everyone likes what they like and hates what they hate, but the response was brutal. Clone Saga sold well, but it was critically reviled, the writers inside hated it, editors were trying to get out of it, and fans were revolting. This is the sort of thing that Brevoort is talking about when he says "if the fans are happy, sales are soft. Always." Dan Jurgens left and they couldn't even get anyone else to come on so he came back, and he said afterwards "I still think I've never really written Spider-Man"
Ben was liked untill he became peter, there's a reason he had a fanbase alive after he died and why spider-girl treated him as a character with respect. And breevort says that but at the same time when just doing controversy farming the whole industry has decayed.
Also the people that joked about the clone saga being bad were later writers outside of one very in your nose joke defalco made once. Ben himself was treated as a sad death for peter (see the DK story where peter genuinely stops when mentioning he has a dead brother too or MK or sensational)
This is familiar, still lovely.
I would be down for that lol.
He was not.
Ben was treated with respect in Spider-Girl because of Tom Defalco. That's it. That guy loved Ben, and that's all it took. Spider-Girl was niche enough and Tom was institutionally powerful enough (as a former EIC himself) that he didn't have to answer to fricking anyone on SG. It's not some sweeping statement about how beloved Ben is. I'd say quit being a moron, but there wouldn't be anything left.
You're so mind bogglingly, consistently wrong about everything, and you fricking throw a stupid trip on just to announce how much of a fricking moron you are constantly.
He clearly was.
He was treated with respect by dezago (see the avobe page), mackie and JMD too...you know the writers that worked on the saga. The only people who use it as a constant source of mockery are the writers from the 00s who have no connection with it.
Burden of proof is on you. Show proof.
Are you the gay that is always mad at the commgay?
why would there be only one person that hates commgay? I don't like him either
>Howard Mackie stated that "the Clone Saga has not always had the best rap. The thing that struck me in reading various things on the Internet is that people would complain about the Clone Saga, and then go on about how wonderful Ben Reilly was. There is a big movement of "Bring Back Ben Reilly" folks. I found that very curious."
http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/42075
Ben being popular is something defalco and jmd also attested to. And the prevalence of ben during the years he was dead in merch lines and games does speak for itself.
He's essentially an alternate costume. Artic Armor Batman looking ass.
Well sure, does mean that it sold enough that they always wanted to put it in games and make toys of it fast (only behind classic and black suit historically).
I dunno. It's a recognizable suit, but does that mean people care about Reilly?
carnage 1 var
so Flash will be the Hero antagonist for the new Carnage book then?
already confirmed
Carnage #2
FLASH IN THE DARKNESS! CLETUS KASADY has been reborn! But to truly ascend to absolute power, he needs two things: loyal followers and a worthy nemesis. Meanwhile, FLASH THOMPSON becomes convinced that a series of increasingly horrifying murders are all connected. But who is CARNAGE’S true target?
Call Her RED QUEEN!
Introduced in the MC2 title A-Next,
Red Queen is Hope Pym, the daughter of
Hank Pym Ant-Man and Janet Van Dyne, The Wasp!
Illustrator Rich Yanizeski named her and designed this cool armor we never got around to using as we decided to go with a stylized version of her Mom's look to visualize the connection!
Thanks, Yan!
>DEATH OF THE VENOMVERSE #5
Written by: Cullen Bunn, David Michelinie.
Art by: Gerardo Sandoval, Taigami, various.
Covers by: Bjorn Barends, Gabriele Dell'Otto, Mark Bagley, Ryan Stegman, Mark Bagley, Gurihiru, Sean Galloway.
Description: Carnage wins!
Pages: 40.
Price: $4.99.
In stores: Sept. 27.
>SPIDER-MAN: INDIA #4
Written by: Nikesh Shukla.
Art by: Tadam Gyadu.
Cover by: Adam Kubert.
Description: The Lizard and its new terrifying ally (REDACTED) have hit Spider-Man where he's at his weakest. The wall-crawler is cornered with no hope of escape. What Spidey does next will not only seal his own fate -- but the fate of all of Mumbai!
Pages: 32.
Price: $3.99.
In stores: Sept. 27.
>MARVEL COMICS · RELEASED SEP 26TH, 2023
Carnage Reigns TP
OVERVIEW
CONTRIBUTIONS
TBD
CONSENSUS
PENDING
Pull It
Have It
Read It
Want It
Carnage vs. Miles Morales! Cletus Kasady is back — and badder than ever. With his soul trapped inside the Extrembiote Armor created by Tony Stark during KING IN BLACK, Cletus now has the means to level an untold amount of chaos on New York City — and the entire Marvel Universe! But like any good Tony Stark invention, the Extremis coursing through Cletus’ symbiotic veins needs power — and that means Cletus is hungry. Good thing Brooklyn’s very own Spider-Man is there to stand in his way! If Miles survives their first encounter, that is. But where will the young would-be hero known as the Red Goblin stand in this fight? And now that Cletus has scored himself an upgrade, can Miles level up to match?!
Collecting CARNAGE REIGNS ALPHA, MILES MORALES: SPIDER-MAN (2022) #6-7, CARNAGE (2022) #13-14, RED GOBLIN #5 and CARNAGE REIGNS OMEGA.
>
MARVEL COMICS · RELEASED SEP 26TH, 2023
Spider-Man Unlimited Infinity Comic Chapter #4
>RELEASED SEP 26TH, 2023
Marvel Masterworks: The Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 2 HC
2023 Printing (Remasterworks)
OVERVIEW
CONTRIBUTIONS
100
10 OF 10 LIKED IT
4.3 AVG. RATING
Pull It
Have It
Read It
Want It
By popular demand! Back in hardcover, beautifully restored to match the original comics and boasting expanded bonus material! Welcome to Marvel's reMasterworks! Peter Parker hasn't been Spider-Man for very long, but the threats this newly minted hero must face are mounting quickly! In this volume, Mysterio, Kraven the Hunter and the Green Goblin make their debuts! And as if that wasn't enough, Doctor Octopus has returned - determined to unmask Spidey! Plus: Witness the wall-crawler's first meetings with Daredevil and the Hulk, and the continuing development of his love/hate friendship with the Human Torch! But when Doc Ock recruits five villains to join him in the Sinister Six, Spider-Man will face the battle of his life! Peter Parker's personal life is rife with drama as well as he struggles to build a relationship with Betty Brant, care for Aunt May and hold down a job!
Collecting AMAZING SPIDER-MAN (1963) #11-19 and AMAZING SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL (1964) #1.
Universe 616 for Universe 616 inhabitants.
NUFF' SAID.
asm 37 var
Cute!
asm 37 var ,,
uncanny spider-man 3 var. Kinda weird to see x-men title get more than 2 variants per issue. Joining the spider-man fray automatically give him the rights?
Yep
what comics come out this week anyways? Anything worth reading?
death of venomverse 5, spider-man india 4. Pick your poison
they need to end the comic book since carnage starts next month
You could have just told him that there's nothing worth reading.
Venomverse 5, it has 5 pages back up I want to read
It was a directionless mess, but boy did I enjoy it.
have a nice day nostalgiatard
>he keeps posting the same images over and over again
did Norman truly buck broke this dumb homosexual that hard?
Just report him
Reminder that sins past is not canon.
Reminder that everything from OMD onwards is non-canon.
Oh no that's where you are wrong in fact here a few reminders abut certain things. Don't you just get a warm feeling inside knowing that sarah and gabriel are clones made by Harry.
He's obsessed
Clone Saga is like the season season 4 of Spongebob.
It wasn't totally bad and many people argue it's still part of the good ol' days for the couple hits they had. But with hindsight they were the dead canary in coal mines showcasing signs of the bad times to come.
>don't have to do captchas on gwenschizos posts
mods?
release the steve ditko cut
Clones don’t even work like that. It’s fricking magic.
Now that he's spammed his usual images we can get on with enjoying MJ as the best love interest of Spider-Man there ever was.
Time will never be kind to the clone saga. It's still awful.
They must really need superior and Spider-boy to sell with all the variant covers they keep making.
Death of Venomverse literally ended with Carnage winning and setting up him vs Eddie once venom wars hits
Also Anne is the only survivor and possibly sent to 616 since carnage let her live for "reasons"
Man Venom got really dumb
>Death of Venomverse literally ended with Carnage winning and setting up him vs Eddie once venom wars hits
>Also Anne is the only survivor and possibly sent to 616 since carnage let her live for "reasons"
Hihihi
She teleported herself out carrying her dead dylan's body, all others were teleported back and carnage spared her.
And here I thought Death of the Venomverse was their way of ending the whole "Carnage wants to be a death god" thing so that they could do a factory reset and turn him back into classic Carnage.
>Think they will finally get rid of X thing and put it back to normal
>They instead double down on X
Seems to be a pretty common thing at Marvel these days
How silly of you to expect Marvel to drop its terrible ideas.
Andi got killed AGAIN?
Did Andi/Silence die as well?
What else though?
The Clone Saga is the low point in the history of comics.
Previous chapter
more fanfiction coming through
At least Gwen is hating Spidey.
AAAAAAAAAAAA not the sliding timeline crap. And we thought sin eater retcon was bad. Not long till they start inserting mobile phones straight into spider-man's origin
>Depicting Johnny and Peter as massive buttholes who can't out their phones down or get the hint during a funeral
what vibe am I supposed to get from this?
Also this Gwen is cute, prime for GOBBING
that's all. Oh how we miss that crying bimbo, please more! Read asm 91 to get a palate cleanser
>tfw even Slott wrote a story like this better
42 spider-boy variants in total
i hope this crash and burn harder than the mockingbird solo
It's funny how any and all reaction to this deluge of variants is "this is fricking nonsense" yet in Bailey threads (that are always also started more or less the same way, going "What do you think of him?!") people just go "I wish we get an artbook!"
It feels so organic y'know?
Marvel interns needs moneyt for their FF14 and WoW subs, do u understandu
I never took the Spider-Boy threads as a shill thread, I just took it as a closet pedophile general
The ones that feel more are spontaneous are definitely that, then you get people going "wow! I can't believe they revealed Gutterball! I hope we see Killionaire soon!"
I've honestly never seen any character that literally came out of thin air before like this have people go be 'excited' just for the names of characters we're supposed to see sometime soon.
Spider boy threads are notorious shill threads started by Slott. Why do you think he spouts about how popular Spider-Boy is when he’s literally a nobody rn? Why do you think the Spider-Boy threads stay up for days on end with nothing but positive talk and praise?
Sure, he might have fans of his design but there’s no way there’s more than 3 people on this planet other than Slott that care about Bailey at the moment, even the shotagays that talk about him in creepy ass ways are barely in those threads.
Spider-Boy threads are purely shill material from Marvel themselves.
They're pedos there
> that talk about him in creepy ass ways
Just as there are different types of pedo there are varying degrees of closeted pedo.
Paedophiles are only one type: frickers who want children.
Destrustructive behavior gets classified and pedos are no different in that regard.
Exclusive vs. non-exclusive: Exclusive pedophilia refers to individuals who are only attracted to children, while non-exclusive pedophilia refers to individuals who are attracted to both children and adults.
Incestuous vs. non-incestuous: Incestuous pedophilia refers to individuals who are attracted to children who are related to them, while non-incestuous pedophilia refers to individuals who are attracted to children who are not related to them.
Fixated vs. regressed: Fixated pedophiles are individuals who have a persistent sexual attraction to children and are often preoccupied with thoughts of children. Regressed pedophiles are individuals who have a history of being attracted to adults but have regressed to being attracted to children.
seduction types - who will form a relationship, get to know the victim personally.
Introverted types - peeping toms.
Sadistic types who get off on child pain/abuse.
Situational pedophiles - children may not be preferred sexual age but are accessible.
Morally indiscriminate- will troll streets looking for victims, may offer bribes (candy,money).
Sexually indiscriminate - are ritualistic, have a set fantasy they want to play out and may even script and video the act.
Inadequate pedophiles - are usually outcasts, insecure and cannot fit into society - most likely to harm or murder victim after the act
Honest to God, it's felt like psyops vs organic a lot of times.
43 spider-boy variants in total
Hallows' Eve: The Big Night #1 variant
Oh yeah this book
Hallows' Eve: The Big Night #1 var
I miss him. He could've been so much funnier and edgy
They really should have gone full Spider Who Gobs and have him constantly toss people off of high places. Imagine Peter showing up in Paul's doorstep with his hair in waves like Norman.
They should have kept those two kids alive so that he could kidnap and brainwash them to believe they were Gabriel and Sarah.
alternative covers for amazing spider-girl 29
The spider who gobbles.
The good one
the original superior spider-man
alternative covers for amazing spider-girl 30
A I've finally killed spider-man --- Now to destroy his legacy!!
B Homage to what if 105. Tom's personal choice
C Night of the goblin. Big finish (logo in rubble)
D Is this the end of the amazing spider-girl? 'Nuff Said!
one of the designs for unused symbiote spider-man suit 2
I’m getting closer and closer to Spider-Girl 100, even though I know I still have Amazing and Spectacular to go I can’t help but feel sad
do we get the preview for ASM today or tomorrow?
Next week since is NYCC and the comic was postponed
it's ogre...
at least we might get some fun autism from NYCC?
Anon they postponed to Wednesday, NYCC is Thursday.
They did it for live reaction there
The struggle between needing new material to pirate to feed the autism and dreading more terrible writing is real.
meanwhile te new static comic had some good shit over Virgil and Ebon's duality
Sadly that would not feed my autism but I'm very happy for people who are getting fed.
And of couse who can ever forget about a certain deal Norman made with Mephisto.
can you stop posting fan comics moron nobody gives a shit
It's not fanfiction moron.
>it’s not fanfiction
proof?
Official site and the beginning of a status quo we now have to live with as oldgays continue to reiterate that it was an excellent idea to put Harry back in the ground. Next dumb question.
I'm 20, i still think bringing harry back to begin with was a dumb idea
With all due respect: Doubt.
Regardless, Oldgays: Old status quo gays.
I'm really tired of people who say |everything| from the modern era sucks or was a bad idea and as much as I love the PeterMJ work you commission (thank you), I disagree with you on a variety of other topics. That would be one of them.
Me being 20? Dont really have an incentive to lie about that :P.
I dunno, like if it was old status quo id be opposed to norman coming back too, but I think norman's best stories have all been since his ressurection (I love the ditko-romita classics but he got buttload more characterization in the 00s and late 90s than he ever did prior) as well as his death not being the actual point of the story he died on. But with harry...his stories post ressurection have not been even half as good as the JMD era, and generally just was portrayed as a different character, it also was strange given the delay thanks to back in black making this like reverse synergy?
And I wouldn't say everything from the modern era sucks. I like anti venom, scarlet kaine, red goblin (as a dumb cool thing), the rhino thing, new ways to die overall
Spider-girl literally did that years before superior. And mac did so sorta in canon. But I guess doing "venom as spider-man" would have been a concept.
Being honest, neither does Ock if written well.
The alternate clone saga doing that was stupid and fricked with JMD's original story horribly.
>I guess doing "venom as spider-man" would have been a concept.
When Venomverse did this recently it really shocked me to realize we've never had a storyline where Eddie is Spider-Man for a bit. Seems like a natural move.
I like the design for Spider-Eddie. They should do that if they ever want to pull back from the deep cosmic place Venom has gone.
Bringing him back to begin with is a dumb idea but putting him back like that of all ways was bizarre. They can barely even have Sinless Norman feel bad about him now without it being awkward.
Maybe if they just revealed he was a clone, but kept him around as a compromise? As is I feel spencer wanted to make him actually kindred originally, mad because of the deal but then last minute had to change it which just was off.
I'm glad Harry wasn't Kindred. That would have made for a worse character assassination than we got.
out of curiosity, who would you have wanted as Kindred? Question open for everyone else here as well.
Peter's soul shard, maybe mj's too to keep the two kindreds stuff. It fits with the name too.
Before this run I was planning on doing a spencer ending rewrite/commission thing, but priorities did change with the mess lol.
Imma give a troll answer and say Skip was blaming Peter for being gay.
lmao
>you seduced me, Peter! Confess!
>It doesn't make me gay, the balls didn't touch!
>Peter's soul shard, maybe mj's too to keep the two kindreds stuff. It fits with the name too.
would that lead to some sort of discussion about OMD? I say discussion because it seems so pointless to hope for OMD to ever get retconned.
I mean, the whole run was constnatly alluding to it until the very final arc where it suddenly stopped, and by their own admission they changed what it is.
And I don't think OMD would get retconned (tho every post OMD thing happening now with the marriage would be karmic?), more so them realizing it happened and having to address it, maybe with now aunt may's health at stake again, tie to her having cancer.
The unborn child who was lost because mommy and daddy accidentally aborted her, maybe.
that would've been so dark, but unless they were truly going balls in and acknowledging OMD, never gonna happen
something something it was me, Peter
pre-OMD Harry seemed like a solid choice, but yeah, not perfect. Would depend entirely on the execution.
Eh they defintely were, before someone stepped in, again CB has said so himself they changed the ending.
I think soul shard was the best, pre-OMD harry mad at the deal is the second best I guess.
That would have been cool
The man who shot Uncle Ben.
I don't know if anyone could fit Kindred perfectly, not even Peter and MJ.
Mayday
Peter's soul affected by OMD is the tidy one.
Mayday would be the risky one but she's also the other character who could fit most of the Harry hints, minus the flashbacks.
I wouldn't be suprised if the Two Kindreds was planned; with it being Harry AND Mayday. I don't know if I'd have liked it.
>I wouldn't be suprised if the Two Kindreds was planned
I am still not convinced it was planned. There's not much hinting at it before the big reveal and there's more evidence for the dude (or dame) just changing his Demon Jacket(tm) every once and a while (also known as colorists doing whatever they want)
>Sins Past if it should be retconned should be norman's scheme after peter rejected being his heir, it works too well. Peter talks about how gwen is too pure so norman decides to screw tith that.
this would have been a 100% acceptable way to retcon the story. Makes sense for all the characters involved, doesn't fricking involve a mess of AI, Mephisto, Mysterio and Harry, the latter of whom totally knew his dad was actually alive.
would they bring up Sins Past in this case though? It very much seems like a truly last minute decision, so if you don't reveal who Kindred is, bringing up the twins would've still resulted in a lot of people going "huh???"
Look. Gabriel and Sarah are teenagers. They're still finding themselves fashion-wise. Give them a break.
Yeah, I wish colorists cared more.
It seems obvious. Or at worst just make it the AI or warren if you need someone else but norman. I guess you could soft retcon it again as something the ai did itself rather than harry?
His entire motivation as a villain was revenge for his dad's death and his family suffered as a result. Doesn't seem like he'd be in much place to judge Peter saving his mom figure.
Would Harry be mad at Peter for accidentally erasing his sound daughter?
Mad? I doubt it. I think he'd feel bad for him.
Probably. I would think he would think like "I dead and can't see my kid(s) and you sold yours"
Harry at Peter: G-damn man, we both suck at this fatherhood thing. You want to get a beer and think about our terrible life choices?
Peter and Hell Harry teaming up to fight mephisto would have been cool
Or Peter, Kaine and Ben.
Would be neat. Though I don't remember Kaine making a deal with mephisto.
No he is there for Peter.
It’s funny, out of the 3 Kaine is the only one not to make a shitty deal with the crimson fricker. Also Kaine is a cool bro
Bringing up Sins Past was a pretty obvious bone to distract from all the OMD hints not being dealt with. I'm talking about how they executed that decision specifically.
It wouldn't be good but it wouldn't have created as much baggage.
It's not as likely as it just being Harry, but there was speculation earlier enough on that it's not implausible. There was also that one scene where Kindred fumes that they're not who Norman thinks they are, so that being not-Harry while Harry Kindred is having his flashbacks would cover that.
All said, there where signs the story was swerving directions as early as the first Sin-Eater arc so I can buy that multiple different ideas where being hinted at.
The sin eater one had Peter's subconscious filled with omd references
Sure and it was probably still the plan, but it also had Ben Reilly disappear from the Order of the Web cover, and the only Sins Past hint.
>and the only Sins Past hint.
d'ya mean when Norman was perving on Spider-Gwen?
The ben thing is lowe. He hates ben
Maybe, i am saying that splitting BND harry as a clone makes some sense. And at least making haryr kindred is less shit than the alternate clone saga thing (which strangely is very similar to spencer's stuff)
There was the one design posted here, eddie's I liked. But yeah shocking they didn't since its the literal dark mirror. Kaine would have made sense in 2014 too honestly.
A reveal where Harry WAS Kindred as an effect of OMD could have worked, though given how he was written there'd a lot of ways it could have gone wrong.
However when that got shut down, they should have backed off dealing with his revival completely and left it for another day. He'd already been missing most of the run so they didn't have the build up to make any other death story satisfying.
Just say Sins Past was all the old A.I gone haywire, and if they have to explain Mephisto, say one of the Osborn cults got hold of it.
Spencer or Marvel gets the credit of undoing an unpopular story and some bonus OMD baiting, without making Mephisto the Osborn's puppet master or accidentally retconning the rest of JMD's story while trying to "fix" the ending back on.
Chamaleon-arc (also a rather bad one honestly) is the firs time it hints the opposite, cause kindred proper makes a lot of too many harry-specific references.
Sins Past if it should be retconned should be norman's scheme after peter rejected being his heir, it works too well. Peter talks about how gwen is too pure so norman decides to screw tith that.
That last part would have been dark but funny. He would be that unbelievably petty.
umm, sweaty...
you're posting fanfiction. Here, let me show you a canonical Spider-Man story
BASED! story time when,
would take a lot of censoring to storytime it here, lmao
It doesn't exist expect in the anon's poor deluded mind.
I love Gwen!
Grow the frick up.
>anon tells me to grow up for loving a beautiful woman
what are you? gay?
Death of a cheater
Good riddance.
the prostitute just keeps jumping from one wiener to another
PUTA
why is he so opposed to their love?
Oh I don't know could it because Norman is a a dangerous psychopath who is also mentally unstable and let's not forger that he is also responsible foe Gwen's death,
Norman didn’t kill her dumbass he faked Gwen’s death using Spider-Man so that way he could elope with his one true love (Gwen Stacy, future Osborn, mother to Norman’s children)
You’d know this if you spent less time reading fanfic and reading the actual spider-man comic tho.
this is canon. Haters will say it's not true and then deny pic related (the twins dressed up for Halloween)
How would Superior Spider-Man be like if another villain, let's say Norman, swapped minds with Peter?
Probably pretty boring. Norman doesn’t really have any reason nor want to be Spider-Man. Spider-Norman from Spider-verse is probably what would happen in all likelihood, except he’d be in Peters body.
Dark Reign 3: Spider style.
I for one wish Harry had turned out to be the mastermind behind the clone saga instead of Norman.
I don't get how Harry could blame Peter for turning into Kindred, OMD or not. There's writing an insane character with a skewed internal sense of logic and then there's using an insane character's insanity as an excuse to be lazy.
I assume it'd be "I was in hell, and then you the hero made a deal with the devil that I had to see"
"You made me this way" kind of implies something else.
True, call it after effect of the deal too. I do think the soul would work the best (even with norman being proud of him)
Its very norman esque, which is what matters
that could've work not in the case of harry being angry that he was turned into kindred but in the case that peter was who he thought he was all along. Meaning his last choice was meaningless. Harry was right, he shouldn't have saved peter
Does seem that was the idea, before ending with harry putting it to rest again and peter moving on from the deal. Kindred not wanting to hurt MJ only works if its harry (or peter himself)
Harry's arc in that story wasn't about how he viewed Peter, it was about how he viewed his Dad and Peter got the blame because he couldn't face what Norman was, and seeing Spider-man would remind him of it.
>Meaning his last choice was meaningless. Harry was right, he shouldn't have saved peter
He doesn't save Peter because he thinks Peter is worthy of it, he saves him because he's a friend and is important to Harry, and Harry ultimately chooses what he loved over what his father hated.
You could argue that Harry thinks Peter selling his marriage is despicable enough to make him unlikeable, but it feels to weak to make him Kindred. Anyone could feel that way.
Is it real that Peter Parker already got confirmed to not be Spider-Man in Ultimate Universe 2.0? I just want a good Peter run.
Not that I know of.
didn't hint at Peter after issue 1 where the maker prevented his from becoming spiderman
>JRJR drew gwen's death
of course he did
Peter looks kinda happy there, actually.
Someone give him a bow tie and champagne.
Champagne will come later
Ms paint it.
Too late
A poor attempt was made.
At least yours is better than my shitty edit
That bottom right image is begging for an edit where Peter is giving a thumbs up
And if Kindred was Gwen Stacy? Would that work?
Gwen would've been a spicy choice, but they'd never do that to Saint Gwen. Heaven forbid the character be allowed to have an evil version running around (they couldn't even get a Goblin Gwen in the Spider-Gwen comics right. I want total evil b***h scheming and throwing bombs inside orphanages, dangit!)
Gwen should have been the second green goblin.
Honestly motivation wise she's got a stronger case to be mad at OMD than Harry.
what's the definitive interpretation of norman?
a good man driven mad by the serum
or an evil man that finally had his outside reflect who he really is on the inside?
depends on the story you want to tell. Could also be a deeply flawed man who, after the accident, couldn't control his dark impulses anymore and never bothered to learn how (but still had the option of turning things around, if he was willing to fight for it)
I see Norman as an immoral man who already had undiagnosed other specified dissociative disorder and an alter when he was a child before the two alters experienced final fusion. My theory is that he had a relapse after the near-death experience during the explosion and the symptoms of the goblin serum, which caused the two to split again in adulthood. I already know I'm in the minority.
Evil man. The serum thing was fine for the silver age but not in modern stuff.
Being a misguided but tragic guy with the Goblin as an evil second personality is to Norman what being A Shy Sweetiepie is to Peter Parker.
Not true but what non readers seem to expect anyway.
He is a bad person with some reasonable and empathizable parts, and a second personality.
Official marvel tarot card
They copied comm
At this point they should hire him for marketing
Would normanchads eat good?
Source?
The release of the Amazing Spider-Man #35 has been pushed back it no longer comes out next week but rather on October 11, 2023. I take it that this a hint that it truly be a bad book since it got delayed.
More like NYCC also to stop conversation that the price for issues is now 5.00$
>Marvel employees reported my post into a warn
it only makes me proud that they seethe
Anon we know of that, they are releasing a DAY before NYCC to generate drama there.
if it had been postponed to another week, then something REALLY went bad and peter killed people and mutilated mary jane and paul hard since the bomb exploded in their car.
Also they will announce what comes after gang wars, plus it was leaked already that Mary Jane will be Venom in SM2 and the final villain per leaks and achievment names
>Marvel employees reported my post into a warn
what post was it?
The one i called out that Giant Issue is another desperate attempt to put miles as the REAL SPIDER MAN by forcing him a rivalry out of nowhere with Dylan Brock and that he will always be in the shadow of Peter Parker and Miguel.
And that he will forever be marvel's shitty attempt to copy Virgil Hawkins the Static, something that it still fails til this day since static carries himself alone and miles needs peter and miguel to do so and still fail at it.
oh, I remember that post. Someone really got assmad enough to report it (and have it be taken seriously)?
>Mary Jane will be Venom in SM2
stop it
Which post?
>consequences in this run
Nice fanfic
The achievement implies harry. The opening screen is harry too
Oh wait misred the post. Carry on. My bad. But remember mj is in gang War. Nothing happens to her
Harry will be the first, then Peter, then Her.
Harry will develop Anti Venon from what happened, lab will be under attack, and peter will hide that he is using the symbiote until he loses control.
Then Bell tower fight happens, peter gets rid of it with miles and harry with anti venom, and it jumps to Mary Jane, who is now behaving like Eddie Brock because Spider Man ruined her career.
Act 3 will be who is the new host until it reveals is Her wanting revenge against Peter and Miles.
Good ole "racism outside /b/" excuse
Again the Harry achievement comes at the end of the campaign. The line he says to Peter alone and then venom repeats. These games are simple
Symbiote also shows memories of others into their hosts.
Eddie learned that Peter was Spider Man from him, but in SM2's case, MJ venom will obviously attack Harry and the anti-venom at the end since it spread all over NY because the Symbiote will trick her into having her revenge against Peter.
And It is obvious that harry will die and Norman will Become the Goblin in SM3
Harry will die sure. He'll die as venom after fighting Peter. Mj as venom is a funny shitpost but it ain't happening
Sounds like fan fiction.
we already talked about this, schizo.
when?
About?
Why make MJ’s party girl shtick an act? What was wrong with playing it straight?
By the way, people can’t change into a completely different person. You can improve and be better, but you can’t do a whole 180 and be totally different. People don’t work that way. You can pretend, but you can’t actually be. You can be better than how you were five years ago, but the parts of you from before are still there because you’re still you. You only become a less shittier version of yourself as all human beings are at varying levels of shit by default.
Yeah just like how Peter didn't change and got worse as a person! Wait
That’s because they rewrote his entire character, like they did with MJ.
It's literally the origin
Explain.
Can't wife up a hoe.
Shame, peter's such a hot hoe.
How is Pete a hoe?
>be dating felicia
>give your ex a key to your house
>she gives you breakfast in bed
>totally just friends
really anon?
>totally just friends
Was he fricking her?
Here's the thing: It's objectively easier for a girl to get with a lot of guys (especially if she's easy) than it is for a guy to get with a lot of women. Most guys will only sleep with a handful of women in their lifetimes. For women, it's the opposite. They control the access to sex and if they're at least a Plain Jane, they can get it pretty easy.
and peter gets with a ton of women, way more than anyone he's ever dated has with men.
>way more than anyone he's ever dated has with men
I call bullshit on that.
Absolute minimum MJ has had 6 on panel love interests counting peter, Felicia has had 10...peter's had 22.
>peter's had 22.
Did he have sex with all these women? If he didn't, he's not a hoe.
If we go by sex, the number for MJ reduces to 2/3, for felicia to 5 and for peter to 9
What about off-panel? If these fictional characters are supposed to have actual lives in-universe, then you can't pretend they just pop in and out of existence whenever they become relevant to the story.
Off-panel is headcanon, anon, and we won't be indulging you today
Sounds like cope.
MJ, as created by Lee-Romita, was a promiscuous party girl. The real-world equivalent is a honest to God hoe. They even have the same backstory as that kind of childhood typically leads to such behavior. It's not an act, they're genuinely on a path to self-destruction. It'd be pretty sad if it didn't happen so often.
Less of a hoe than peter
Off panel, Venom fricks them all
Reminder that every single poorly written, ESL-sounding, suspiciously-lacking-in-any-photo-evidence """leak""" you read in these threads is just a shitpost.
Even mine?
I was there too and people liked Ben, he was hated by Wizard readers that also hated Kyle as GL
Talking about ben actually
Wait i know this artist!
Follow the cold shiver down your spine 😛
>Spider-Man has some of the most unique and cool fan artists.
>His books since the 2010's have had the most bland jobber art imaginable.
Have they? Id say the art has generally been a strong part of it, barring the current run.
Yep its that artist, funny thing in the context of these threads tho.
I think Gleason and Mcguinness
do a good job
Oh yeah they do, and we're getting vasquez who's one of my favorite spidey artists soon.
Neat
60s-80s Peter was player
>60s-80s Peter was player
No, he was just popular with women. Dude was handsome, confident and charming. He was also the relationship type. A tradguy. He would date with the endgoal being marriage.
Fine. Peter is a tradhoe
It's all too bland for me, I like Spidey to be drawn bit more wild.
Fair enough, but if there's one thing id give the BND onwards era was mostly consistently good art.
I think you might like Juan Ferreyra art in deadly neighborhood and spine tingling spiderman
This is a thing that I think about when people say that Gwen was "fridged"
When fridge had any meaning, it referred to a female character being murdered to advance a male character's story. Major Force kills Kyle's girlfriend in order to give Kyle motivation.
The death of Gwen and Norman in the same issue does exactly the opposite. Peter doesn't get a cool new story, or a reason to be hopping mad and do cool shit chasing a bad guy
It leaves him sad, adrift, and alone. Legitimately powerful storytelling.
Peter is moping about Gwen to this day as if TNGSD happened yesterday. Her death right now is a crutch of motivation and her ghost is dragged back repeatedly to reinforce that.
Death of Venomverse #5 Storytime:
Featuring Andi from the Agent Venom series.
This literally set Cletus vs Brock
Carnage and Cletus split off a while ago, that's just the symbiote.
And the Symbiote will merge with him again in november for the Venom War Arc next year.
the editor not even trying to hide that there will be a Venomboy series in the new year, wonder why they even bothered having it be a comic and not just a Jump+ manga
What is MJ's actual appeal? Aside from the coomer shit, what is so special about her that doesn't amount to her just being the popular one?
She's the one that has had the most development in terms of a dynamic with peter. Sure could have happened some other way, but as is, its her.
They will at least put him back in his merchandisble clothes, tho they really are trying to make chasm a thing (which isn't the case for anything else in this run).
>She's the one that has had the most development in terms of a dynamic with peter
No, Conway just rewrote her entire character to fit his interests.
That was like 50 years ago. It's time to accept it and move on.
Well, OMD was almost 20 years ago. It's time to accept that and move on.
>almost 20 years of pointless non-canon nonsense
Truly we live in dark times.
>15 is almost 20
Can any of you into math?
you round up for numbers ending in 5, anon.
And the marriage was 20 years old by OMD.
Thats the one I meant.
>And the marriage was 20 years old by OMD.
And?
That the people that undid it hadn't moved on at that stage, so expecting people to move on is a bit strange?
TNAS too, she was solid there honestly.
'Cide is perfect for that role
So how is spider cide doing?
But MJ and Peter didn't change, just their marriage status did.
They changed Peter a frick ton, what do you mean?
Some writers remember how he used to be
Its been 50 years now. 30 of them in a relationship. You can argue (even if I would disagree) about how inorganic or a shift it was, its still is the one that's gotten that development.
They need an evil spider-man mirror now that venom's a good guy?
>They need an evil spider-man mirror now that venom's a good guy?
But they literally have evil Peter/siderman right now.
For 4 issues.
No, DeFalco and Stern did, Conway just expanded upon the idea
Also this, conway had her grow out of her party girl persona, wolfman then wrote it back, stern and defalco then tried to justify it, and later they got married.
>wolfman then wrote it back
Because that's how it works in real life. Old habits die hard. Especially if you've been living that kind of life for years.
Its because wolfman hated MJ, and look I like most of his TT stuff, but that's just how the guy wrote. And you really cant argue that its not a jarring shift that only exists to set peter and betty up again (the thing wolfman clearly wanted to do).
And Conway loved MJ and changed her character to fit his interests. At least Wolfman was being true to life and the original purpose of the character.
Conway loved MJ so he put her in a position to grow organically, then wolfman went backwards because he hated the character (by his own admission). And sure so was betty being a love interest, doesn't mean trying to go back to that after she was married wasn't a dogshit idea. Wolfman's run really is the first bad one
MJ's childhood is par for course for the average party girl. It's the expected thing. Conway made it so that she knew Peter was Spidey since his very first appearance to justify the Parallel Lives nonsense. It's really hokey.
The context was to explain why she put that front and didn't let people close, contrasting with peter's own origin. Defalco already had her knowing but framed it as a newer thing, all conway did was say that it was from day zero, which works for some moments (MJ's general excitement at peter working for the bugle) but not others.
No he fricking didn't. MJ appearing to comfort Peter after Gwen's death is a fleshing out of her character, not a rewrite. What a terrible fricking take.
she went from a care free party girl that aspires to be a famous actress to a “my life is so tragic that’s why i’m a party girl and love acting :(“ lmfao. completely changed her personality from “yay!” to “yay i guess :/“
That wasnt conway tho? It was stern who planned that part.
This is cope. It's called fleshing out a character. Nothing contradicts her previous characterization, it only adds depth to it.
I guess ock getting a whole backstory instead of just being evil because he hit his head is a terrible retcon too.
Clearly. Who needs human motivations and dynamism when everyone can just be static and one dimensional?
Look i love the silver age, I like fun party girl MJ. I can understand disliking the stern/defalco retcons, but the conway thing was development.
I agree, I was being sarcastic. My first comment that you replied to was also in agreement.
Oh no i was also agreeing.
>other LIs can fulfill this
Could? Sure. But they haven't in reality.
MJ is now the core LI, like how norman is the archenemy. You can argue someone else should have been, but its kinda set in stone now.
>MJ is now the core LI, like how norman is the archenemy
Because of the movie.
The movie definitely played a role in it, yeah?
MJ was the main love interest before the movies. She was the love interest in SMTAS, for example
SMTAS is basically a first draft for the raimi films.
Arad produced both, so it makes sense the sheer level of overlap.
No because they got married and had a child together, even if that child died
In the comics. Again, most people don't read or care about the comics. Especially globally. The movies are what most people all over the world view instead.
Spider-Man marrying MJ was a big enough event that it was news
That was all set up by Stan. Dude wanted that shit known.
I mean that doesn't change my point, people knew about it
Stan truly was the man. I miss him so much man. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQwslg6lat8
Lets say you're right...still has been the most predominant in outside media, the first movie (which was massively influential), the 90s show, hell even the first game with a story.
I mean why are you always blaming the movies, it's like batman and catwoman uts just a solidified thing with people.
>it's like batman and catwoman uts just a solidified thing with people.
Because of Batman 66 and Batman Returns.
They were married for 15 years by the time the first movie came out.
MJ and Peter were married in the current comics when I was a kid and he was dating MJ in Ultimate.
Ultimate is a big factor too (despite my thoughts on it), ultimately it was made to introduce new readers and It pretty much had MJ as "the one" from day 0.
I knew MJ was the one when Stan said in that old Kevin Smith interview I watched as a kid kek.
>Stan tries to make MJ Peter's girl
>He leaves the book and is ask if it's ok to kill Gwen
>He fine with it
>He does the newspaper comic which is it own canon and just accepts MJ and doesn't even bother with Gwen
>He misremembers most of the stories with Gwen as being with MJ
Lmao
Makes Gwen* damn typo
Stan the man got it. He did the unmarriage in the newspaper comic, then when people hated it he just remarried them and wrote it off as a dream. That's the kind of vision current editorial lacks.
Oh no a generation grown on this, anon you have to cleanse their minds of this mj love.
>quick pull out the movies will bring out carlie to wow the fans as the primary li.
>but its kinda set in stone now.
But why does it have to be? Why not do something different? Why does it need to be the same thing every time?
>But why does it have to be? Why not do something different? Why does it need to be the same thing every time?
Because every single attempt - every single one, without fail - has been lackluster, uninteresting, or otherwise unappealing. Do you ever get tired of getting smacked up and down these threads without fail?
Would you be complaining this much if Gwen were solidified as being Peter's main LI instead of MJ? Why do you single out that character the most?
That's just how these sorts of characters work, especially if they want to adapt the material. I think for AUs it shouldn't be like that (noir should be with felicia) but even then that's how it operates wanting to do the most recognizable characters and dynamics.
More like 14 i think, but yeah.
Make an AU and do something different then, don't shit over existing stuff because you want something different
Real people aren't as dynamic as you think. Most don't really change that much. Plenty are too stubborn and are therefore stuck in their ways.
Is this your genuine, earnest attempt to say that thorough characterization is bad, actually?
Most women wanted to be an actress because they wanted the attention and adoration that comes with being one. Not because they actually care about the craft. This was on-brand for Romita MJ who always wanted to be the center of attention.
>trying to make chasm a thing
But why?
I don't know, man.
>that doesn't amount to her just being the popular one?
You're putting the cart before the horse here.
She's popular because she is good (when not completely out of character, anyway). She's not popular for being popular.
She's popular because she was in the first movies. That's it. Most people don't give a frick about the comics.
And TAS and Spectacular.
Frankly, those three (first movies too) are basically the best adaptations of Spidey in non-vidya media. Disney's shit has been, well, shit.
Too bad they made Pete a dork in the movies. At least the suit's cool.
I still prefer the first movies to the Garfield or ...um... Disney actor (Holloway?) ones.
The main characters may have been goofy, but the action was on point and it was visually interesting. I didn't feel that way about the newer ones.
>Has the most shared history with Peter
>Books like Parallel Lives have explored the similarities and contrasts between them
>Her being a non-cape/not having any powers means that she grounds Peter in his normal life
>She's heavily associated with some great stories and every attempt to get rid of her has coincided with the comics becoming really bad
>Books like Parallel Lives have explored the similarities and contrasts between them
That book had to retcon shit to make the whole thing work.
>Her being a non-cape/not having any powers means that she grounds Peter in his normal life
Other LIs can fulfill this just fine. This isn't exclusive to her.
People overthink MJ, she just a simple character meant to be Peter's gal like nothing else to it, she's fun that's about it.
That's boring though.
Is it though? I don't read Spider-Man for romance and drama, I read Spider-Man for superhero adventures and villains and side characters. I don't need Peter and MJ to have conflict or like always be the focus, I rather just be Spider-Man fighting crime and dealing with work and MJ just there in the background like it was for decades.
I understand thr take of simplicity where it gets convoluted when they make her a hero.
The hero thing is just them wanting to find an alternative role instead of just letting her be the LI.
Growing up Spider-Man was married in 616 to me as a kid and MJ was just kinda there but she was always likeable when she was, yeah writers always wanna give her something to do since she doesn't have an active job like Lois but like it's fine if she doesn't do anything besides hang out.
Ultimate comics MJ was first and 90's cartoon and the Raimi movies.
I didn't even know who Gwen was till I got an Green Goblin figure with The Night Gwen Stacy died, hell I knew Betty from old collection I had and the movies/TV before I knew Gwen.
That's why people like MJ she was always around forever till past ten years.
>till past 10 years
MJ is still super present in current spider-man media?
She still around kinda but like MCU MJ a different character and Gwen gotten more popular, it's kinda funny Gwen was like almost completely almost forgotten by an certain generation but generation after give birth to new Gwengays.
I mean the MCU uses the name which is how a lot of these things work, plus the spider-verse movies, plus all 2 cartoons by disney using her as LI. And gwen now being pushed as a hero rather than LI.
Plus the ps4 game. The highest grossing superhero videogame. And even the novels they do still use MJ.
>hell I knew Betty from old collection I had and the movies/TV before I knew Gwen.
I knew Debra Whitman before I knew Gwen.
Prowler and Rocket Racer and Jackson Weele...wheel.... Big Wheel guy too.
SMTAS was a wild ride.
Anon who thinks they'll generate an li to outmatch mj in the comics. 15 years
>marvels proceeds to keep pushing them as a couple in all the merch shit outside of comics.
It is telling that they do that.
The weird thing is it doesn't work with either presentation either
She grew out of it as per conway
or
It was a mask and she deliberately never got that close with people as we see in the 80s.
>in the comics
You mean movies. The average person gives ZERO fricks about the comics. Had Carlie or whoever appeared as Spidey's girl in the movies, then maybe public perception would take to her. Movies are more popular and have global reach. If they push her enough and people like her, then she'll be the default for that period of time until someone else comes in.
Movies metch almost the entirety of the fandom, but if your saying they could do that in theory are you of the mind you could get a public to divorce lois and superman as the iconic couple.
>I respectfully disagree in that sense
Felicia would be there at 2nd and could potentially be that but after their most recent breakup that no one can explain why or how it happened, it's set in stone.
Felicia could have, if they had her be the LI thought BND to now. But they didn't because that was the opposite of their intent.
Yeah but even then it's more of a dynamic than the quintessential couple. The problem anon hasn't realized is that, it's not just the fandom at fault, it's marvel in general.
>they still push the shit with products and other forms of media
>generations on nostalgia pass it on to their kids who will inevitably do the exact same thing
>It'll always complement the sales, so why take risks when you could do short term meaningless ones that haven't gone anywhere in 15 years.
>the movies happened and the genies out the bottle for as much as you want it not too.
It comes down to the fact that it was a specific group that disliked it and that group never had full control over all the media made (blame the marvel/sony rights thing for example).
Yep and now we only have like 10 more years before they all leave at least 3 for brevoort.
My bet is that 2028 will be the latest realistically. Just because it seems to work of 20 year cycles.
Now? Ahmed book I think?
Well venom did too. He did hold the spot for a bit.
Otto's held the spot a few times (pre-norman finding out and a few times while norman was dead)
Kingpin's never held the number 1 spot, hobgoblin, harry and jackal all have
holy fricking shit, is Slott here again? Why the frick do we always have that one homosexual who thinks MJ being a party girl means she was taking dick every night? Did your girl do that IRL and now you come here to cope?
Lol it's more funny that he got mad that comm anon commissions mj and peter art.
>like he's a propoganda machine or something.
I don't know if it's ALL the same poster, but there's definitely been some new autist(s) that came into these Spidey threads like a month or two ago with all these ideas that have become really recognisable, mostly because he keeps on repeating them like a broken record and never changing his argument:
>insistent that Peter was absolutely never ever once a shy, awkward nerd and hates anything that even hints at that (especially the Raimi movies)
>insistent that MJ being a party girl means she's a complete bawd who fricks a new guy every night off-panel
>really loves the retold origin story in Spectacular Spider-Man #2 for some reason
>his fanfic idea where Peter starts off as an angry, edgy Spider-Man in the black suit before he eventually dons the proper suit (specifically comparing him to Raphael from TMNT)
Like I said, this probably this isn't all the same guy. Yet I can't help but notice how these ideas just suddenly started popping up all at the same time a little while ago.
Maybe I'm just being too obsessive about Spidey threads.
He also claimed to have met brevoort and thought that he was a calm and reasonable man. Yeah definitely not a marvel employee.
>insistent that Peter was absolutely never ever once a shy, awkward nerd and hates anything that even hints at that (especially the Raimi movies)
>insistent that MJ being a party girl means she's a complete bawd who fricks a new guy every night off-panel
>really loves the retold origin story in Spectacular Spider-Man #2 for some reason
Those ones I remember. Might have encouraged the anti nerd Parker autist while drunk.
>his fanfic idea where Peter starts off as an angry, edgy Spider-Man in the black suit before he eventually dons the proper suit (specifically comparing him to Raphael from TMNT)
Never encountered that one. Sounds moronic
>Never encountered that one. Sounds moronic
Kind of, yeah:
https://desuarchive.org/co/search/text/Spider-Man%20raphael/
https://desuarchive.org/co/search/text/Spidey%20raphael/
I want to reiterate that I dunno if it's the same poster as the other points, but it's a specific enough comparison that's been repeated enough for me to list it too.
Seem to be the same guy. For some reason his post make me hate daredevil now. Though this pic neat
Just admit that you're pissed that Betty or Gwen didn't win, partgirlgay.
Don't worry in 40 years they will develop the ultimate li for peter as he predicted
>marcus Jones a non powered human to keep peter grounded, much better than mj.
>who cares about the comics, normies only watch the movies
>meanwhile, the creators of said movies, who have read the comics and take inspiration from them
you are dumb as shit, bro. I'd understand if we were talking about the Slopverse movies since that is the pinnacle of "only read the wiki", but Raimi and Feige (for example) are a different sort
Even if they werent (which i do have some doubts sometimes), they still use MJ's name so the point doesn't really work in relation to her.
>anti-mjgay throws yet another shitfit
>gets clowned on over and over
>just cements why MJ is the GOAT love interest
Do you ever get tired of it?
Strange we dont see this often with the arch enemy, given that was a more divisive thing historically.
People like Norman. Some people seem to like Otto. I'm a Fisk man through and through. He was more effective than either of the other two.
I'm really glad JMS brought Fisk back for Back in Black. Perfect role for him.
Back in Black and some of it's spin offs were awesome
I love the main series and I love the Ero arc and the Peter vs. JJ confrontation. Peter David did great work. I also love The Book of Peter where he talks to God and the annual by Fraction where we get a full look at Peter and MJ's whole relationship.
>He's my husband. You're just some dude.
Great shit. The spider books were firing on all cylinders, like a last hurrah before OMD.
Doesn't the book of Peter end with him sticking with MJ and having kids?
Indeed it does.
I mean it was a debate and even here I've seen, just not t hat often too much. And usually its venom in spot number 3.
Lmao.
He would be...but JMD used him while they were plotting ben's grim fate.
>And usually its venom in spot number 3.
Who's talking about third place?
I was talking about a position as an arch rival.
Venom is a dark mirror with knowledge of Pete's personal life, but they always wants to redeem him.
Otto's SCIENCE gone bad, kinda like Pete if Pete didn't have a guilty conscience holding him on a relatively morale path.
Norman's dealt some of the biggest blows to Pete.
But Fisk, at least in TAS, was an enemy that was hard for Pete to budge (fat joke not intended). Pete did good shit with his own two hands and got bad press, but Fisk financed the criminal world and got all the good press. He was seen as a philanthropic upright man despite being responsible for most of the crime in the city, and, that being the case, Spider-man just showing up and beating the shit out of Fisk wouldn't work. It'd just make Spidey look like even more of a menace. To dethrone Fisk, Pete couldn't just rely on his powers and ability to hit hard.
I would say editorial is Peter's greatest foe
new bread?
Slott trying to avoid controversy every other week online.