Spider-Man arguably has the best rogues gallery over at Marvel, wouldn't you say? There's such a wide spectrum of crooks I think they're worth talking about. From A list to D, who are some of your favorites? Who deserves more attention either through stories or media attention?
Here's a good starting topic; what would you do to improve Mac Gargan, aka The Scorpion? The guy was the original Anti-Spider-Man, and yet left in limbo for years due to repeated failures and eventually getting sidelined thanks to Venom. Should Scorpion become a big deal again? How would you rewrite his motivations, and what stories would you do? Would you update his suit (again)? Personally I think Spider-Man Fake Red had the best Scorpion armor, pic related.
spider-man has the only rogues gallery at marvel tbh; there isn't another hero that i can name ten villains for off the top of my head except maybe the x-men as a group tbh
although the two most iconic villains from marvel, ever, were both from the F4
dr doom and galactus
I like that a lot of them are animal themed like him
It's no wonder Kraven became a thing, and why Hunted happened (even if a good chunk of those animal bad guys weren't Peter's rogues).
My favorite aspect was how a lot of Peter's villains were also regular schmucks from Queens and Brooklyn like him that just got superpowers one day, but are irresponsible with them. Not many are trying to conquer the world or take over all the big crime families, they just rob banks and snatch purses with their superpowers.
>they just rob banks and snatch purses with their superpowers.
That’s fricking lame though.
I actually like Screwball
Didn't one of the cartoons make her Liz Allan?
I’d make him, along with Spidey, actual half-animal hybrids. Bringing back the cross-species idea from TASM, Pete and Mac would be examples of the perfect cross-species in that they’re still able to retain human form compared to the others. Scorpion would function as Spidey’s dark reflection. His true opposite. The idea being that while Pete rejects the wicked nature of the spider, Mac would totally embrace the nature of the scorpion, base instincts and all. In contrast to 616, this Scorpion doesn’t have the tail and he’d have these microscopic finger stingers, similar to the Raimi finger hairs, that’d paralyze or poison others with just a touch. That and an actual emblem on his chest. That way, he’s a proper Evil Spider-Man. Essentially, the Reverse Flash of Spider-Man.
>
I’d make him, along with Spidey, actual half-animal hybrids.
You shat up the cancerous Spider-Man general and felt the need to come here? Frick off furgay
Read the whole thing, dude.
I did, and you don't need to go full TMNT mutant, even if they still look human. A big theme in Spidey villains is tech anyway.
Besides, it's not like Peter has a shortlist of weird monster men mutants. There's Sandman, Hydro-Man, The Human Fly, Gibbon, Lizard, Stegron, a version of Tarantula, Vermin, etc etc. Don't de-tech his rogues.
Then why even give Spidey any powers? Might as well go full Blue Beetle then. Making them half-animal hybrids makes sense if this guy’s supposed to have spider-powers. It also drives home of Kraven being a legit hunter. Instead of hunting regular animals, he’d be on the hunt for these freaks. Makes him more important. Plus, tech stuff is over-used since fricking everybody is using that shit rather than giving the villains actual powers. That Superman show did just that.
There's only so many ways you can empower a character tbh
>Tech (including Cybernetics)
>Mutation
>Magic
>Alien Physiology
>Some combination thereof
that's literally it, your suggestion doesn't necessarily improve anything, it just changes Kraven a bit, but your idea for Kraven has already been done so it's not especially novel, either.
Dr. Octopus with cephalopod tentacles is something we've seen before afaik anyway
Doc Ock would stay tech-based. It’s characters like Lizard (no shit), Rhino, Scorpion and Morbius who’d get the hybrid treatment. Morbius being one of the lucky ones in retaining human form rather than going full Man-Bat. I’d also have the elemental villains be mutants.
Why would Spider-man pick on all these mutants? At some point it's going to feel like he's just anti-mutant and should call the X-men to deal with them whenever they show up so he doesn't get called racist or whatever.
Because they’re bad guys. Plus, it gives an excuse for more Wolverine/X-Men team-ups. That and setting up Amazing Friends.
You made these exact same stupid posts before. Your ideas are terrible, stop
Explain why they’re so terrible. And no, it being different doesn’t make it bad.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What you purpose makes every Spider-Man bad guy samey, like they all came from OSCORP like in the ASM movies for example. You're also more concerned about X-Men than what Spider-Man material has to offer, so go read those stories with those gimmicks. Not every Superman villain is an alien, and not every Flash bad guy has super speed. So quit trying to push your "everyone can be a mutant" nonsense. There's balance in variety in Spider-Man baddies already, and you yourself listed a few that are what you wanted.
>If it ain't broke, don't fix it
But a lot of it is broken. You think all the comic stuff can be translated to live action as-is? The average person will see that shit and think it’s moronic. As long as the spirit’s there, then it’s all good. Keeping everything 1:1 is impossible when there’s half a century worth of stories so streamlining and removing/substituting the stupid or convoluted elements is necessary.
>You're also more concerned about X-Men than what Spider-Man material has to offer
Like Ultimate, the point is to create a much more interconnected universe. One that’s much more grounded and without any multiverse or dumb alien shit. A proper “world outside your window”. You’d still have plenty of actual Spidey elements to the story. This isn’t Spider-Man & the X-Men, this is Spider-Man who exists in a world where mutants exists.
>But a lot of it is broken.
It's....not? Why would you say such an odd thing?
>You think all the comic stuff can be translated to live action as-is?
Where did this train of thought come from? I didn't say anything about adaptations. In fact, who cares? We're talking about comics right now, stay on topic.
The rest of your post reeks of bait.
So anytime someone says something you don’t like, it’s bait?
I don't believe you are posting in earnest given what you're saying, and how you're presenting yourself. Especially since when it's done in a repetitive manner across more than one thread, being met with widely negative responses from people. Feels like you're just saying stuff you know people will oppose for the sake of riling up. You also don't seem concerned about the material itself, rather more towards what you want it to be based on odd casual/adaptation appeal for some odd reason.
I'd rather just have a fun discussion about Spidey's bad guys.
> I'd rather just have a fun discussion about Spidey's bad guys.
And that’s what I was doing. People can have differing opinions, dude. A discussion doesn’t need to be a hugbox where everyone agrees with each other.
Except your ideas are terrible yet you keep trying to push them. I want to talk about what is, rather than what you want it to be
>Here's a good starting topic; what would you do to improve Mac Gargan, aka The Scorpion?
Your inability to let this go is further proof this is baiting tactics. You could just....go to that shit Spidey general if you wanted to indulge in such things. It's practically encouraged at this point. Respectfully, your ideas are not good.
Free country, dude.
two same numbers so I'll let you off. have a nice day
Let him win and let him be actual friends with Norman Osborn. Also, let him go back to being a private detective. Maybe put him in a mini with someone who sells. It gives him something to do when he's not being a villain.
>Essentially, the Reverse Flash of Spider-Man.
That or his Sabertooth equivalent. Probably a similar dynamic too.
Ehh, I'm not a fan of everyone having the same shared origin. It works for a movie where you can neatly tie everything up to one event or one organization for quick storytelling purposes. it's not necessary for eternally ongoing comics.
Movie, show or even game. It's pretty much how it is. Especially if the original origin either doesn't work in a modern context, or is too weird and dumb to work for a general audience. Most people who know these characters don't read the comics. They instead look to the other mediums. Comics are still seen as nerdcrap even to this day. Even with the worldwide success of the Avengers, people still didn't want to read the damn things. Comics don't matter. Nowadays they're just pitches for whatever future adaptation. Even in the Big Two, writers/artists are hoping the new character or new story they make gets adapted to the silver screen.
>They're ILLUSIONS, Spider-Man! A trick is something a prostitute does for money.
>Whatever I can still just do you what you do with a good editing software and some projectors
Scoprion's a loser that bumbled his way into some power and has never figured out how to really benefit from it. I think that's a great character. No notes.
That’s lame.
Make him Yonker's Spider-Man. Have him be somewhat jovial with Spider-Man. Still a villain, but got clear rules catagory.
There is literally a spider-man for every borough at this point.
I like the gamerverse designs. Wonder if Swarm will appear in 2?
the theme in the first one was technology and now this one is more biological
Looks cool.
honestly any new idea for Swarm works better than a bunch of bees in a cape, that just happen to have some strong opinions about national socialism
Just kill him off. There's nothing interesting or even noteworthy about him anymore.
>Rhino
>Scorpion for a while
>Venom, Carnage, other symbiotes
>Doc Ock
>Molten Man
>Alistair Smythe
Why does Spidey have so many villains in his Rogues Gallery that are bonded to a suit or apparatus of some kind?
Scorpion still has a super suit. It compliments his gene enhancements to match Spidey's strength. But to answer your question it makes sense that these things exist in this world. In a society of supers, corporations want weapons they can mass produce. Rhino, Scorpion, Molten Man, they're all basically prototypes to stuff that was meant to hit the market at some point.
He had that green and blue suit that was fused to him in the PS1 game. I believe the Scorpion in the PS4 game has the same deal.
His original suit is super too, anon. It's not just for show
Spidey really was the only one who looked good in these things, wasn’t he?
Artists usually had a while like a couple months to design a superhero costume since that would feature for the entire run of the series.
And then maybe a week at the most for a villain costume since they had to churn out something by next month's issue, and chances are the villain might never appear again. So most villains that appeared in the 50s through 80s had some really half assed costume designs.
amazes me that it didn't cross the artist's tail to put a spike, gun, ANYTHING on the end of a fricking scorpion tail
But why even have a super suit if he’s already genetically enhanced? Like with Rhino, it’s overkill. Being half-scorpion would give him a hard exoskeleton ie super-durability. Same with spiders and their hard exoskeletons.
I thought you left?
Yeah, this is actually some I wanted to expand upon in the Spider-Man spec I was planning on writing, both as a way of simplifying and to appeal to my sister’s love of mystery and crime films.
The gradual showing of more and more of the same kind of superhuman coming into existence as the corporations refine the technology over time
Having their cake and eating it too. They want a badass villain that Peter can beat if he gets their Achilles heel..
has scorpion ever had a flamethrower tail attachment? it seems like such an obvious gimmick
Not that i remember. He has had a machine gun, acid shooter, laser, and little scythe blade. Back in the 70s it was just a wrecking ball.
Hot take: Sandman is a terrible Spidey rogue
For a long time he wasn't even a Spider-Man villain. He was shared with the FF for a while at the start and then not too long after he was reformed until Byrne fricked that over in the 2000s
Was he on spider-man TAS in the 90s?
they couldnt use him because he was in camerons script (even tho electro was also in it) so they just used hydroman
its because in that time the Cameron movie fell through and Sony started production the Raimi Spider-man movie while TAS was running
And as a result of it falling through, they were finally able to use Electro. Except they couldn’t work in Max Dillon into the ongoing plot so they made him Red Skull’s son to keep him relevant to the current story.
Flint is a special case because of his daughter.
Said byrne fricked even hulk
Would making Gargan competent go against his character, or be too far in the other direction in an attempt to fix him?
No. He was originally competent.
I feel the same way towards Shocker. Him being utterly badass in Spectacular makes me sad that he's the default joke character in almost all canons now.
That wasn't even Herman, that was Montana of the Enforcers.
Shocker should 100% be allowed to be competent.
Don't pull your groin, gargan
what even happened to the scorpion tease in homecoming
They might still use him or it's just an Easter egg
I might have some ideas to improve Scorpion. Anyone care to listen?
sure
Frick it, seems as good a place as any to dump my shitty ideas.
So for a few months now, I've been working on this big reimagining of the Marvel universe, mostly focusing on Spider-Man and a few other less prominent characters. Oh, and Venom. I combined a lot of elements from different iterations/adaptations but a lot of it's also just purely my own ideas.
Any of y'all interested in hearin' what I got??
be a step up from rest of the thread so sure why not
Sweet. Got blessed by the trips.
Anyways. I have more plot-shit actually laid out for the Venom stories than the Spidey ones, but there's still plenty of ideas.
So this story fast-forwards the origin story, with just a few prologues to establish the villains, show what's different in this universe, and there's also a super-compressed clone saga thingy.
Peter is in college, in his senior year. Has to balance finishing on a high note, figuring out what to do with himself after he graduates, getting a job, his social life, and being a superhero on top of all that. He's been Spider-Man since he was 16, and it feels like the threats he faces get more dangerous with each passing year. And his friends have finally started to suspect something's going on with him- why does he disappear so much??
Some characters I basically rebuilt from the ground up. Like Silk. Bitten by the same spider as Peter...what a stupid idea. And don't get me started on her pheromone thing. I basically made her into a completely new character. She's an obsessive fangirl who gives herself spider powers. Fun fact, she can actually talk to spiders- we have all these spider-people and not one of them can, so I felt the need to fix that. More specifically, she has a bunch of genetically modified spiders as pets, they're basically cat sized. She's a crazy cat lady, but with spiders. Her favorite is a bold jumping spider named Bartholomew.
huh sounds a bit fun actually, plus her self engineering the spider powers does sound more organic and naturally done then her canon origin. Cat sized spider's sounds right at home in my home of AUS and would be fun to see Peter see as despite his whole Spider-man thing he doesn't really have much an opinion on them besides their webbing and capabilities factor for him. What idea's did you have for his rogues such as Shocker, The Lizard or Electro?
Oogh. Got nothing for Lizard or Electro yet. Shocker's not really a major player, he shows up mostly in the "villain POV" chapters. And he prefers not being a major player- he just wants money, and would rather *not* end up dead, thank you very much. Every other career path he's attempted has been a failure, but he's actually quite competent as a villain, partially *because* he doesn't partake in big schemes.
That sounds super interesting and very similar to Spider Gwen’s Silk. I really like it. I especially like the idea of the giant spiders since we don’t get a ton of those often as expected in Spider-Man which is surprising to me
Hey, since I’m also writing a ground up Spider-Man thing, want to hear my take on Electro and Lizard. They’re nothing too original since my main goal to to introduce my movie only sister to some of Spidey’s other stories, but I kinda like them. I also had a much different idea for Silk
Sure!! I love hearing other peoples' ideas 🙂
Well, just as a bit of a start. Curt Connors isn’t the only lizard and that becomes a big problem. One of the main issues is that part of his lizard program is giving different levels of the serum to himself and two other amputees as well as three non amputees over time in order to see how the serum effects the human body. Because of this, during the lizard storyline Spider-Man has to cure the other five lizards and not just Connors. Now this is a problem because two of the people who transformed into Lizards decided to sue Connors over the incident, which means he is rapidly bleeding money over the court case and because of this he eventually starts joining more and more risky projects at Oscorp in order to cover the expenses, eventually leading to him creating even more superhumans, becoming the lizard again, and even being partially responsible for the creation of Carnage via experimenting on the alien symbiote which briefly messed with Venom’s ability to reproduce. This obviously leaves him guilt ridden.
As for Electro, he’s a bit of a cross between Amazing, Spectacular, and NTAS. He’s a regular electrician with a crush on a girl he has no chance with who works a crappy job at one of Oscorp’s more underfunded labs. After a spider bite leaves him dizzy and sick on the job, he ends up falling into one of the experiments which grants him uncontrollable electrical powers and slowly drives him mad from lack of contact and his desire to be special. Eventually he ends up as more of a mercenary and Ock sends him after Oscorp’s escaped “lifeform” which ends in a dimensional star being grafted to his face after he tries to absorb her energy. Though this does give him the ability to teleport by focusing on electrical currents
Oh, that's actually really interesting, especially the multiple Lizards thing.
Thank you, honestly one thing I really want to stress is the idea of the whole corporate escalation and the increase of superhumans and human testing. I want to show Spider-Man building up the superhero community while starting in a world where the only heroes are the Avengers, F4, X-Men and a few vigilantes, but with a twist.
This is not a cape universe at first, there are no zany supervillains until Spider-Man. The Avengers fight terrorists and aliens. The F4 are scientists who occasionally fight Doctor Doom and aliens, and the X-Men are a political group who occasionally fight the Brotherhood who are considered a terrorist cell.
Spider-Man is the guy who’s inspiring other people and building up the idea of superhero fun.
Also I’ve heard a lot of people saying that multiple spiders makes Peter less special, so I decided to take that and reverse it where in my universe the multiple spider people make Peter Parker more special.
Peter isn’t the only spider person, but he is the first. He gained his powers in a cruel and unjust world that was out to kill him, and every single spider who comes after will be a person that he has either directly saved or indirectly inspired.
In my continuity, Spider-Man is the giant that all spiders who come after him stand on the shoulders of. They absolutely love him and look up to him… which is why it’s so tragic that Peter Parker is unable at first to figure out why anyone would want to look up to him at all. It’s only once he finally shakes off all the hate that’s spewed his way and his own guilt complex that he realizes just how many people he’s inspired and just how many people absolutely adore him.
Which is why my story will begin and end on Peter Parker’s birthday
The beginning will have nobody but him, May, a picture of Ben and Harry’s absence
The end will be a massive party with all of Peter’s friends and family and every superhero in New York
Define Peter Parker.
A kindhearted genius of a man with a bit of a bite. An ultimate trickster with a massive guilt complex that forged his bad luck. He tries his hardest every day to save as many people as he can and in doing so burns his own life for the sake of theirs. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel and karma will forge for him a golden tomorrow
He does, the whole point of my fun little interpretation is Peter Parker inspiring more and more people to become heroic figures. Unfortunately in Oscorp’s and thr Criminal Underworld’s lust for superhuman dominance they ultimately end up testing the spiders on multiple people which causes most of them to die. Those who are of kind heart and who survive ultimately end up inspired by Peter’s golden heart.
Yeah and I agree here too. Essentially my plan is to start Peter off like that in the wake of Uncle Ben’s death and slowly have him transition into the more pure hero we know and love while still very much being a trickster with a temper
>Those who are of kind heart and who survive ultimately end up inspired by Peter’s golden heart.
What the frick? Dude, get that shit out of there. This is some Steven Universe shit. That fruity shit don't belong in Spider-Man.
>Essentially my plan is to start Peter off like that in the wake of Uncle Ben’s death
Pete was always like that even as a kid. Ben's death wasn't the cause. Nor was it from him getting his powers.
>slowly have him transition into the more pure hero we know and love
Don't do that. It's better to make him similar to Dante from DMC where he's a carefree trickster instead. Pure heroes are boring. Spidey needs to keep his edge.
I agree with giving him some edge, but I’m not gonna make Peter Parker into an butthole. At the end of the day, Peter is a good person who saves people and inspires people, the kind of person who would help someone across the street or walk a girl home at night, and I’m not removing that.
Also you seem to be forgetting the large amounts of death, law suits, human experimentation, and imprisonment I also mentioned.
>Also you seem to be forgetting the large amounts of death, law suits, human experimentation, and imprisonment I also mentioned.
Execution is key. You can have all that stuff but fail to make it work in a believable manner. That or it's just written like crap.
Yeah that’s fair enough. I guess it’s kinda hard to showcase here since I’m just describing it here and now, but I had a genuine idea to fix the multi spider issue through an interesting storyline about Oscorp’s attempts to accelerate human evolution.
Though personally I’d rather talk about ideas I had relating to the various villains instead
>I had a genuine idea to fix the multi spider issue through an interesting storyline about Oscorp’s attempts to accelerate human evolution.
TASM had that with the cross-species thing but it wasn't just spiders, it was other animals too. Pete differed from the others in that he had the right DNA for perfect synthesis between man and spider, resulting in him retaining human form.
Yeah I had a similar idea and I wish we could move on from the spiders because I actually prefer to use more animals then just them. In my universe there are only about 6 people who survived the spiderfication process and one is only because Peter refused to let her die
Yes, yes he is. He’s also the kind of guy who somehow keeps exes as friends even when he starts dating someone else
Is your Peter a shameless flirt?
Or you could have him inspire non-spider heroes. Having multiple copies of the same character running around is stupid. It's one of the dumbest things in DC with their stupid super-families. This is Marvel. One Spider-Man and that's it.
That one. I fricking hate family and junior replacement shit
I always hate all the other guys with the same powers making a super family. Even more so with Spider-Man since he was never a team kind of guy in the first place.
The only time i thought it kind of worked is in the 90s when DC had a no more Kryptonians rule and they had to get creative with it with the guy in armor, psychic clone, shapeshifter alien girl, Atlantean girl. I can see loads of fanboys making their own Super persona but not a shit load of Kryptonians hanging around.
I mean, my take on a spider family is a bit more complicated than that, and it involves a lot more evil spiders than good spiders.
Plus, I wanted to end that arc with Peter and the others breaking into Oscorp and having Johnny Storm scorch the spiders so that Oscorp can’t kill anyone else
It doesn't matter. Having other Spider-People swinging around is a dumb idea. It doesn't work without making Pete less unique and no, saying he's "the best boy" isn't gonna curb that. Have Oscorp create Scorpion and/or the Spider-Slayers as their very own Spider-Man Killers.
>Have Oscorp create Scorpion and/or the Spider-Slayers as their very own Spider-Man Killers.
Why do you people constantly want to streamline OSCORP for being the creation for everything? Enough already
Because it's Spider-Man. Oscorp is the big bad corporation that's unique to Spider-Man and him alone. Owned by one of his biggest villains, if not the biggest one. Plus, Ultimate and TASM already made Oscorp the reason for a lot of shit in the Spider-Mythos. Would you prefer if Pete was bitten at Stark's?
>Ultimate and TASM already made Oscorp the reason for a lot of shit in the Spider-Mythos.
And it was stupid then as it is now when you're trying to push it.
>Would you prefer if Pete was bitten at Stark's?
Oh frick off.
Explain why it's stupid.
It's like saying there's a conspiracy with the Wayne murder, or every Superman bad guy having ties to Krypton, it's streamlining bullshit that is not needed. You're actively simplifying the mythos to a moronic level, making it seem like OSCORP is the end all be all thing that makes Peter's life hell. Your ideas are fricking shit
>It's like saying there's a conspiracy with the Wayne murder
Recent renditions have flirted with the idea.
>every Superman bad guy having ties to Krypton
Smallville did that by making their metahumans a result of contact with Kryptonite.
Are you just some baiting casual only concerned about adaptations? Because you're the only one who keeps bringing them up. They're bad ideas.
You act as if the explanations in the comcis can hold water NOW. They can't. Electro getting his powers from a bolt of lighting is stupid. Sandman becoming a sand monster because they nuked a beach with him in it is stupid. Even Pete getting bit by a radioactive spider is stupid, which is why every modern adaptation changes it to a genetically-modified spider instead. Changes are necessary when applying it to a modern context, since now we know that radiation doesn't give you superpowers, just cancer. Especially when translated to live action with an audience that'll call bullshit on the dumb comic book-y stuff.
My idea is to have most animal-themed villains be a result of gene-splicing courtesy of OsCorp. Doc Ock being one of the exceptions. Elemental-based ones are mutants. That way, Spider-Man lives in a much more interconnected Marvel U, rather than have everybody act as if they exists in separate universe for some reason.
So are you autistic with this idea of mutants that you feel the need to keep pushing in the thread despite people telling you it's dumb, or are you just a baiting jackass who saw that we had a fun Spider-Man thread and decided to ruin it because it wasn't cancer like the general we have now?
I don't care how many times you spam it, or whine about it, your ideas are terrible.
>despite people telling you it's dumb
Pretty sure it’s just you pulling that shit. Seriously, dude. The frick is your beef with me? You’re acting like I fricked your mom or something.
>Pretty sure it’s just you
Keep telling yourself that.
>The frick is your beef with me?
Your ideas suck and you have the mentality of "Well maybe they just don't understand" which is annoying.
All you can say is that my ideas suck. And your only explanation as to why is the typical turbo-nerd reason that “it’s not like the comics”.
You were given valid reasons, which you ignored completely because you can't fathom your ideas being subpar
>You were given valid reasons
Such as?
Scroll up.
All I see is what amounts to the usual “it’s not like the comics”.
Yeah that was the plan in part, except for the fact that Scorpion came from the same venom as Spider-Man just modified. Here’s my spiders list
Peter Parker: the original
Cindy Moon: has the same powers but doesn’t pursue a hero lifestyle, still helps spy on Oscorp from time to time
Gwen Stacy: uses tech to mimic Spider-Man’s powers. Starts out obsessed with proving herself better than him but mellows put eventually
Ben Riley: the clone
Charlotte Webber: a fan of Spider-Man who never believed the Bugle stuff. Became bitten as a result of Peter trying to get rid of a duplicate spider and almost died from the venom while he drove her to the hospital
Anya Corazon: venom harvested from Man Spider plus implants as part of Ock’s attempts to mimic Spider-Man. Escaped and sought revenge
Thing is, I never wanted any more spiders of any kind at all good or evil. I only tolerate Venom for being a costume that imitates the powers.
OG Spidey was a short-tempered arrogant guy that regularly picked fights with other heroes. The dude was plenty confident and charming, but was flawed in how he'd let his temper get the better of him in both his lives as Spider-Man AND Peter Parker. He's basically the proto-Wolverine.
Some nice takes you got here
>Who deserves more attention either through stories or media attention?
I've been thinking about how has the most characters to be used for MCU's Spider-Man. Who would be a good fit for post-NWH Peter as solid enemy fitting the theme of each film. So far, my picks are as follows:
>IV — Hobgoblin & Crime Master.
>V — Scorpion* & Sin-Eater.
>VI — Jackal** & Superior Foes.
On top of that, I think Spider-Slayers would be a great reoccuring enemy. Just having various models suddenly ambush Spidey here and there.
* — Ultimate gang boss turning into classic Scorpion via symbiote and not use "Venom" name as I could see Sony not allowing that.
** — Basically, just an Ultimate version of Goblin with "Jackal" name. No clone nonsense.
>Bitten by the same spider as Peter...what a stupid idea.
TFW When I had some ideas for Spidey's take that centered around Peter & Gwen being bitten by the same spider.
When I was rewatcing TAS a few months ago, I was surprised to see Electro, Prowler, Big Wheel and Spot.
Yeah, totally.
>TFW When I had some ideas for Spidey's take that centered around Peter & Gwen being bitten by the same spider.
It’s a dumb idea, dude. If Gwen’s getting powers, then it should be a She-Hulk thing where it happens because of a blood transfusion.
Huh, I was thinking more like Gwen gives herself powers intentionally to fight against Spider-Man as revenge for her father’s death
Might as well give her the symbiote then.
Nah, Gwen’s gotta serve as a foil to Eddie in this storyline. The problem with Ghost Spider is that she genuinely believes everything she’s doing is right and cannot handle the idea of being wrong in any way.
Eddie knows what he’s doing is wrong, and so does Venom. But they’re so hurt that they really don’t care
Then make her into a female Scorpion then. It fits with what you're trying to do. Having too many Spider-People around makes Spidey less unique. It's also very dumb.
Gwen has a ready-made excuse in the form of her friendship with Harry, though. It would be easy for Norman to provide weapons and upgraded suits to help her hunt down Spider-Man and perhaps other wild-card heroes. He'd know what torment it would inflict on Peter emotionally to have a friend attempt to injure, kill, or incarcerate him because he failed to save someone who also cared for him. Norman would have a camera installed in the helmet so he could watch the drama with buttered popcorn while he prepared the paperwork for his next meeting with the shareholders.
So she’s a female Hobgoblin then? Going the Spidey 94 route where Norman uses someone else to test out the gear before he himself makes his debut.
Except not being a goblin, caring about society from a self-centered pov. I can't see Norman giving her goblin themed stuff willingly.
>I can't see Norman giving her goblin themed stuff willingly.
He did that in the cartoon. That's why Hobgoblin debuted first, because Norman wanted his gear to get tested before he himself goes out into the field. The Hobgoblin was a guinea pig.
I know he did it in the cartoon. It was great! Thing is TAS Norman was one of the nicer iterations of the character and hadn't gone goblin yet. I'd want him to be closer to 616's paranoia: trusts no one, everything has an off switch, and nothing he gives her would trace back to his goblin crimes.
>and nothing he gives her would trace back to his goblin crimes.
Which is why he'd either blow her up or kill her with the glider if she ever blabs about him. No loose ends.
That's the point anon. I'd like if she died for a reason besides being Peter's girlfriend.
Norman had no intention of becoming the Green Goblin at that time, it doesn't happen until two seasons later, after he has the lab accident with the Goblin Formula, and then snaps. In the first season he hired a merc to deal with Kingpin for him, and gave him the Hobgoblin identity to use, but he went into business for himself.
That cartoon Hobgoblin was like the ideal version that drew from the best of the 80s and 90s iterations of the character.
>If Gwen’s getting powers, then it should be a She-Hulk thing where it happens because of a blood transfusion.
Well, might as well go with "same spider" route instead of copying She-Hulk's origin. I don't exactly see any issues here, but open for potential enlightment.
At the very least, I guess you can go with "two different spiders" as some sort of middle ground. However, the "problem" here is that it could create an impression of power differences and that's not part of my thought process.
>i was gonna say that the symbiote & black cat could be cool villains for 4 but then i realized that it would go against peters arc of the previous movie
Interesting. Elaborate. The reason why I'm not considering a "proper Venom" or Black Cat is Sony. There's a Brock trilogy on the way and I'm kind of expected them to introduce Felicia in Venom 3. Sony were interested in Black Cat project in forever: I don't see them giving up or sharing characters, especially after what they did with Vulture.
>i dont like the hobgoblin for 4 tho because if marvel adapts him its 100% gonna be ned leeds
I know it's a wishful thinking, but I'm going with "no MJ and Ned" (even though I think it's a safe bet that Leeds isn't returning). For Hobgoblin, I'm thinking of Kingsley as a F.E.A.S.T. founder who lost a mayoral race to Fisk & acted both inside and outside of the law. The idea for him is to be an amalgamation of Home villains to really test Peter as I think that "ghosts of the past" would be a great theme for his second trilogy.
>would be to just put him in secret wars
No doubt that it's their current plan: fourth film happens before Avengers, Peter gets the symbiote in Dynasty/War and fifth film takes place after that.
I wish, anon. ATSV made him much more popular than TAS. He was more of a "minor" antagonists there as he appeared like in 1-2 episodes total, even though Spot was behind Time Dilation Accelator.
>Elaborate
it would just be very jarring for peter to betray his morals from what is supposed to be his origin without having a story where he proves them
>I know it's a wishful thinking, but I'm going with "no MJ and Ned"
i just cant see them not do it especially considering the viewer is already invested in neds character unless theyre doing 2 hobgoblins
>No doubt that it's their current plan: fourth film happens before Avengers, Peter gets the symbiote in Dynasty/War and fifth film takes place after that.
i wonder if theyre just gonna ignore the venom post credits scene from nwh
>it would just be very jarring for peter to betray his morals from what is supposed to be his origin without having a story where he proves them
Yeah, I think I see it. Still would've been cool to see some Spider-Man & Black Cat action in films, but that's just not likely to happen.
>considering the viewer is already invested in neds character
Personally, I just don't really think that's actually the case. It's not like I monitored some general opinions from, I don't know, Reddit and Twitter, but what I did see was "only Peter & MJ will return" at 'best'.
It's probably obvious, but Kingsley/Hobgoblin has to be Mark Hamill.
>i wonder if theyre just gonna ignore the venom post credits scene from nwh
No, it's still important: the symbiote is in MCU's Earth-616 and, that was the goal. Won't surprise me if it suddenly jumps onto Peter in an important moment like Infinity War since (let's be real) the black suit is pretty much going to be a replacement for Iron Spider.
>Still would've been cool to see some Spider-Man & Black Cat action in films, but that's just not likely to happen.
i still have hope for it to happen later in the trilogy
>Personally, I just don't really think that's actually the case. It's not like I monitored some general opinions from, I don't know, Reddit and Twitter, but what I did see was "only Peter & MJ will return" at 'best'.
i meant that neds character is already established so they wouldnt need to come up with much of an origin
>It's probably obvious, but Kingsley/Hobgoblin has to be Mark Hamill.
would be nice
>Won't surprise me if it suddenly jumps onto Peter in an important moment like Infinity War
i kinda just assumed that they would do the full secret wars origin since its so unlikely to ever be adapted in something else but that makes sense too. i actually kinda hope spiderman 5 is gonna be about the symbiote (& black cat) now because then the movie could open on an inverse of the homecoming opening montage where its just peter fricking around with the black suit
>i still have hope for it to happen later in the trilogy
I abandon that hope long-time ago. Black Cat will get her own film as a part of SSMU side of MCU. Sony just won't pass on that.
>they wouldnt need to come up with much of an origin
In a way, I suppose.
>would be nice
The only right way of doing in from my perspective. He wanted to play Vulture in Homecoming and voiced Hobgoblin in TAS, so it really is a nobrainer.
>i kinda just assumed that they would do the full secret wars origin
While I won't put it past them, going through all this trouble throughout... Actually, I suppose there's a way to sit on both chairs. Like, I don't know... Some Kang/TVA/whatever captures the symbiote for whatever reason and sends it an important location for an Avengers film (Void/Battleworld/wherever), where Peter finds it and the rest is history.
>the movie could open on an inverse of the homecoming opening montage
Fourth one is more likely to get that treatment as a way to showcase and introduce Peter at the moment and mixing up the working formula of Home trilogy as Marvel could be playing it safe.
We'll always miss out on interesting concept. That's just how it is.
Maybe I should throw around more of my dumb ideas since it's fun (even if anons won't like them at all; I'm overly self-critical, but still), but I need to sleep and having work tomorrow.
>I abandon that hope long-time ago. Black Cat will get her own film as a part of SSMU side of MCU. Sony just won't pass on that.
damn
>and voiced Hobgoblin in TAS, so it really is a nobrainer.
didnt even know that huh
>Fourth one is more likely to get that treatment as a way to showcase and introduce Peter at the moment and mixing up the working formula of Home trilogy as Marvel could be playing it safe.
yeah youre right tho im a bit worried 4 might take place too far after nwh
>im a bit worried 4 might take place too far after nwh
I'm not. If anything, a longer break is more likely to benefit the forth film in the long run: build up the anticipation, prepare the audience for slightly different take on Spidey with soft-fresh start and that sort of thing.
>Obviously as a main villain
Give it time. He'll get there.
Cute art.
>If anything, a longer break is more likely to benefit the forth film in the long run
i meant that like in universe theres too long of a time gap
While I did meant more of IRL, I don't think the long "in-universe" gap is all that bad. I get that it can be concerning since getting any substantial appearance of Spidey is difficultdue to Sony. Marvel just namedropping him in Multiverse of Madness & Quantumania is already a good progress though. Although who knows if the idea of bringing up Spider-Man in She-Hulk was turned down because they couldn't agree with Sony, that's just not something both parties really wanted... or it was Tom's call. I get where he's coming from in this interview.
eh i dont mind like a 2 or maybe even 3 year in universe time gap but like 5 years is too long imo
I (
) was considering having my universe's spider-gwen be a Jackal clone given powers as a ploy to kill spidey once and for all- because Peter could never bring himself to hurt Gwen, he'd let his guard down and she'd take him out. Except she's not as loyal to the Jackal as he had hoped, and she escapes.
So you’re doing the whole magic clone thing then? Why even? Why not just make it the actual Gwen?
I'm not even sure she'll be in the final draft of the story.
>Why not just make it the actual Gwen?
her code name is ghost spider. it makes more sense now that she's an actual revenant. that was like half of my thought process behind it,
the other half was just inspired by an album I was listening to as I wrote it. Sometimes you just wanna write some sad shit. So I wrote some sad shit.
She's created three whole years after the original's demise- the world has changed around her, her friends are at different points in their lives. It's not like she could just resume her friendships with them, resume her life like nothing happened. Not only is she a copy of another person, but she's a copy of a dead girl- just a revenant. She's legally dead, no home to go back to and practically nothing in the way of personal possessions. She remembers what it was like to die- the shock of her bones snapping, the air squeezed from her lungs- and she now knows how it feels to be born again, gasping for breath, being spilled out onto the cold concrete floor of the laboratory, dazed and naked and helpless as she struggles to get to her feet. And she was given a second shot at life for the purpose of killing someone she cared so deeply about, viewed by her creator not as a person but as a weapon, a tool, something to be discarded once she was no longer needed.
okay I got a bit carried away there but you get the drift
>She's created three whole years after the original's demise- the world has changed around her, her friends are at different points in their lives. It's not like she could just resume her friendships with them, resume her life like nothing happened. Not only is she a copy of another person, but she's a copy of a dead girl- just a revenant. She's legally dead, no home to go back to and practically nothing in the way of personal possessions. She remembers what it was like to die- the shock of her bones snapping, the air squeezed from her lungs- and she now knows how it feels to be born again, gasping for breath, being spilled out onto the cold concrete floor of the laboratory, dazed and naked and helpless as she struggles to get to her feet. And she was given a second shot at life for the purpose of killing someone she cared so deeply about, viewed by her creator not as a person but as a weapon, a tool, something to be discarded once she was no longer needed.
This sounded like a woman-written fanfic
probably because that's literally what it is.
i was gonna say that the symbiote & black cat could be cool villains for 4 but then i realized that it would go against peters arc of the previous movie and also your idea of a streetlevel villain makes more sense anyways.i dont like the hobgoblin for 4 tho because if marvel adapts him its 100% gonna be ned leeds and like the peter i dont want to see him turn evil right after nwh. i think the only way to do the symbiote without rehashing spiderman 3 would be to just put him in secret wars
>Spot
I think in the whole planet Spot is popular due to TAS
WE WERE ROBBED
>here's also a super-compressed clone saga thingy
Why even?
i like Kaine and Ben and I want them to be in it somehow but without the baggage of the rest of the saga. still a work in progress.
So how'd you explain how cloning works?
keyword still a work in progress. very rough draft. i have more shit actually plotted out for the Venom story and the bits with the more obscure characters. idk if it's adhd or whatever but I can't write in sequential order to save my life.
>idk if it's adhd or whatever but I can't write in sequential order to save my life.
Yeah, same here. It’s easier to jump back and forth for the story than it is to go from A to Z.
Did any Spidey villain from the 90's and onwards achieve the same recognition as the top rogues from the 60s up to the 80s? The same classic baddies just seems to get rehashed over and over again.
Carnage was 90s right?
Yeah. Maximum Carnage was a big deal. Got a video game and everything.
That's true of everyone. The 90s made all new cooler villains with asymmetrical costumes and leather jackets because all classic villains were uncool, then in the 00s it was all 60s villains and killing off or forgetting about every 90s villain.
Heroes too, Wally, Kyle Rayner, Red Arrow, Azrael, New Warriors, Darkhawk, all gone.
so we can all agree that villain from spider-man TAS are the most famous ones?
We can agree that Chad Charker is best Parker.
>hydro man
>most famous
THAT'S RIGHT!
Scorpion's one of the biggest victims of spider-wank and the worst part is all this "He was holding back all this time but can actually one shot all his villain" bullshit doesn't even make Spider-man look all that strong just makes all his villains look weak.
One would think Scorpion is one of the few guys that can throw down with Spider-Man on his level.
If anything, he should be stronger than him. Scorpions eat spiders.
Wasnt that the whole point of scorpion when he was first created? I genunienly hate the way how newer writers tend to handle scorpion
I’d like it if Scorpion was that one villain that came and humbled the hero something furious. Spidey thinks he’s hot shit and fights the guy, only to get his ass handed to him completely.
In order to work as a regular, compelling, threatening villain, Gargan needs to regain those seasoned PI skills. He has got to be intelligent. But he needs to keep that animalistic rage bubbling just under the surface. And he needs stories beyond blind revenge or just being a mook for other bad guys. And they have to make him the Anti Spider-man again. Stronger, faster, and almost as smart, even if it's in other areas than Peter. They could easily make both Scorpion and Shocker compelling again.
I think Shocker is still compelling tbh. Even if his modern characterisation tends to lean more towards the comedic, he's still treated seriously (with an interesting angle of trying to be a supervillain under the radar) whereas Scorpion is more or less just a jobber with no real character hook to him
>Spider-Man arguably has the best rogues gallery over at Marvel
Absolutely not, the Fantastic Four rogue gallary is better in every way and it's not even close, 90% of Spider-Man villains are the same premise with a different power, they also have to rely on Peter having personal ties with the villains to bait the audience into giving a frick. The Fantastic 4 fight people like a silly little guy and his army of goblins, an east european wizard dictator, an alien empire of shapeshifter spies that can be anywhere to a cosmic deity that eat worlds.
The F4’s lame and geeky. They’re the Star Trek of superheroes. Doom works better as an Iron Man villain.
I always thought the biggest problem with Scorpion is that scorpions abilities do not translate into superpowers well. With Spiders it works because you get sticking to walls, shooting webs etc, A few bugs can work, like a fly will be flight, strength, maybe acid spit or something. But a Scorpion's abilities are purely physical with armor, huge honkin claws and a big stinger tail. Those cannot really translate well to superpowers, a Scorpion themed guy would pretty much be a guy in armor with a robo tail and claws, or a mutant monster tail and claws. He just wouldn't be some guy in tights with superpowers related to the spider guy in tights with superpowers.
They tried it in the past with Gargan where he just kind of cuts things with his fingers that act like claws, and advanced robotic tail doesn't jive with the low class lug who got superpowers either. The tail is also a problem because it is either mostly useless like the wobbly club of the 70s, or too damn deadly like when they attach guns to it. Robotic tail also makes him into a shitty Dock Ock knockoff with less utility.
Gargan should have just become Venom instead of Eddie back in 89. He already had the basic powers down like super strength and wall sticking, the costume would have just given him webs and maybe enhanced him some. He would have been the perfect evil Spider-Man.
And the venom name makes perfect sense for Scorpion.
>purely physical with armor
Hard exoskeleton, as in durable skin. He’d be bulletproof like Superman.
>huge honkin claws
Just as Spidey doesn’t have spider legs for limbs, Scorpion wouldn’t have claws for hands. It’d just be basic super strength that’s able to cut through Spidey’s strong webs. He’s also a big guy.
>a big stinger tail
He’d have these stingers coming out of his wrists like what Spidey used to have pre-BND. Spiders don’t shoot webs out of their wrists, so why should Scorpion be the one who’s 1:1 to the actual animal? Having it come out of his wrists drives home that he’s Evil Spider-Man.
Make the exoskeleton into super durable skin. He would basically be Luke Cage that sticks to walls. Got nothing for the claws and tail though.
oh come on the stinger's the easy part have it shoot out corrosive acid, poison gas and lazer beams or whatever, if dr. Ock can get a way with 4 vanilla bionic arms jutting out of his back no reason Scorpion can't do the same with 1 super teched out robot arm
That would go along way in helping him be a Carol villain again. In the early 80s he always got his ass handed to him when he tried to pick on Carol, but if he had super tough skin he could laugh off any punches that come his way. Would be the same with Spider-Man too, he just stands and laughs while Peter keeps hammering at him.
Spider-Man rogue gallery is easily the most overrated one ever, if you are going to make all your villains the same shit (petty criminals fricked up by muh society) at the very least use a premise that allow your villains to be diverse enough on their own like Hulk villains being mutants fricked up by mutations due to their own unique personal demons and wishes or Batman villains being all crazy due to their own personal issues.
There is a reason why Spider-man writers always go back to the cliche plot twists and personal drama while putting the rogues into a side plot rather than making the villains the main focus.
It makes sense for Manhattan, as the place where almost all superpowered people in Marvel gather, after the whole high population thing, also where loads of villains gather too, the chances for people to randomly get superpowers goes up in that type of situation.
Spider-Man just deals with the low class ones in the shitty neighborhoods, while the FF are dealing with the cosmic threats that come out of the sky, Daredevil deals with the organized crime and superpowered hit-men in Hells Kitchen, Iron Man deals with the industrial espionage mercenaries and company enforcers, Dr Strange and Ghost rider deal with any demons or supernatural things that pop up. Everyone has their niche
Here's how I would fix Scorpion; return to his roots as a private investigator. Gargan should wise up, be the cold and patient threat waiting to strike (like a scorpion). Have him be the eyes and ears of the villain community, the information broker and master of blackmail. He's willing to watch from the shadows, learn, and apply pressure when needed. Judges, cops, city workers, Scorpion has the dirt on someone to get what he wants. He's the literal bug in the room, poison to New York's finest as he undermines the system.
I think it his origin story that holds him back more than anything he was never some criminal mastermind just some poor Sap J. Jonah Jameson suckered into putting on the suit, maybe if you redo it so that he wanted Scorpion powers to get revenge on Spider-man and Jameson was only blackmailed into funding the experiment that gave him powers.
No I think it speaks volumes that after the procedure and getting powers he decided it was high time he start being assertive. There's no reason to have vengeance against Spider-Man other than being made a fool. Take advantage of his private investigator roots I say
But can you really do that when you've already established just how much of a dim witted oaf he being easily manipulated by J.J of all people
And he was a new man after the procedure, what's the problem? We're talking about an origin that has hardly been touched since the 1960s. We're fine
>We're talking about an origin that has hardly been touched since the 1960s
Because nobody cares about Scorpion like that. They'd prefer to use Venom as Evil Spider-Man instead.
>Because nobody cares about Scorpion like that.
The question was how to improve Gargan, and I presented something that has seldom been touched on. What is the issue? We KNOW Scorpion is shit now due to paper thin motivations and gimmick. We already know Venom fricked Gargan over, that's nothing new to the conversation so I dont know why you're bringing it up.
I'm explaining why they never updated his origin.
Not using what is there isn't a fault of the material. We already know writers are fricking stupid, just look at Shocker. There's nothing wrong with Gargan's background
Scorpion doesn't really have much of a reason to hate Spider-Man. I like him more as the costumed criminal that actually does hate Jameson, like JJ made the very character he was writing about and now all of New York has a new problem so JJ can have a costumed menace to help sell papers.
>so JJ can have a costumed menace to help sell papers
Newspapers aren't much of a thing anymore though.
>Scorpion doesn't really have much of a reason to hate Spider-Man
Well give him one then, make him a once famous and respectable private.i until Spider-man exposed all his dirty deals with the NewYork crime gangs ruining his life.
That just makes him Venom again.
Yeah. As another anon suggested, dude should’ve been the original Venom. Instead of debuting a character we’ve never seen before, we could’ve had one with history with Spider-Man.
Then I say make him into a loose-cannon private investigator. Willing to break down doors to everyone for a price. Making it a reason why villains mostly steer clear of him.
>Spider-Man arguably has the best rogues gallery
I don't know where this meme comes from
They're fricking terrible
What do you think is the best rogue gallery?
Hobgoblin sucks, and I sincerely mean that. It's Green Goblin with none of the nuance or pathos, and a mantle spread across five people due to editorial infighting
>Hobgoblin sucks, and I sincerely mean that. It's Green Goblin with none of the nuance or pathos, and a mantle spread across five people due to editorial infighting
Real life reasons aside, that unfortunately still canonically means Kingsley has consistently outsmarted Norman
When? First time they clashed, Norman took over Kingsley's company and ran him out of New York. The second time Kingsley just ran in advance, and set up one of his henchmen to die in his place. The most recent time they met, Norman defeated Kingsley AND Ned at once.
>Norman defeated Kingsley AND Ned at once
When did that happen? I thought the last time they fought, Norman just beat up another bodydouble
The current ASM run, the story where Norman becomes Gold Goblin.
Damn that was a moronic piece of work. Although technically I guess Norman didn't beat Kingsley, and even if you want to say he did, he wasn't the one in control.
>"Scorpion without his tail. It reminds me of an album Uncle Ben loved to listen to all the time".
Isn't Scorpion supposed to be as strong if not more so than spiderman? Feels like a bad example to showcase Peter always holding back.
Although I don't really know much about the character, so if his strength comes from the big suit he is wearing and isn't innate, I guess it makes sense.
Yes. Absolutely.
That's why I've been seething at this shit page for over a decade now. That's partly why Slott is an idiot hack.
t. Scorpiongay.
Okay Cinemaphile, how do we feel about Electro?
I feel like writers have trouble hitting that sweet spot of writing him where the fight feels believable. He's either treated as so powerful that Spidey basically shouldn't be able to touch him, or a joke so stupid that it's a wonder he's even considered a credible threat.
Also, is there anything that would make him a more interesting character? Should that even happen? Is he better as a simple thug?
That's kind of the entire point, anon. Power doesn't make the man, and he's supposed to be a irresponsible short sighted loser no matter how much energy he absorbs
>and he's supposed to be a irresponsible short sighted loser no matter how much energy he absorbs
That’s lame. You can’t get cool fights if this guy’s gonna do the bare minimum.
You can still do cool fights. Why couldn't you? Electro is just short sighted with no long term career goal or forethought. He thinks if he absorbs enough energy, and can zap his problems away by sheer force, he'll be a winner.
I’ll take the school shooter guy. Villains who do the basic kiddy shit of robbing banks are boring. That’s fine in some kids cartoon, but not in anything else.
Are you just saying any moronic thing in this thread to derail it? There are so many shit takes in here it feels like it's samegayging shitposts talking non stop about adaptations and fixing what isn't broken.
Dude, you’re the one derailing the thread when you’re b***hing every time someone decides to frick with your sacred cow. People can have differing opinions. It’s not that fricking serious.
You repeatedly keep trying to push adaptation nonsense when this is a comic thread, and for some odd reason keep demanding a boring streamlined universe where every villain is the same and comes from the same place.
You are not a writer.
This isn't just a comic thread. This is a Spider-Man Villains thread. And those Spidey villains appear in not just the comics but the movies, shows and games as well. So anything pertaining to the villains will extend to those other mediums. Also, the OP didn't specify, "Comics Only".
>This isn't just a comic thread.
It is though? You want to talk about movie autism, go to Cinemaphile bro. You're just doubling down proving how little you know about the material
It's all Spider-Man, dude. He's a comic book character that's the star of a multimedia franchise. It all counts.
>Let me talk about adaptations no one cares about so I can pretend I know what the frick I'm talking about reeeeeee!!!!
No. If you want to contribute and create constructive/good ideas, it goes without saying you need to at least be familiar with the material or know what the frick you're talking about.
The fact that you've been crying about this for so long is pathetic
you seem to be literally the only person in this thread getting remotely heated over what amounts to other peoples' fanfiction that has absolutely zero impact on the canon. how the frick are they the one "crying" in this scenario
>they
Because it bothers you enough to keep defending a shit idea, and you refuse to let it go. Why keep at it? We all could have moved on ages ago
i don't frickin' know, I just got here, just adding my two cents on the situation.
anyways change of topic: it still pisses me off that scorpion and tombstone show up for exactly a minute in into the spider-verse and are out of the running almost immediately. what was the point of including them then...it's just a waste.
I like 2003 cartoon take on Electro. It managed to make him threatening without making him a bullshit-level villain. The problem is you can't really reuse a superpowered school shooter as a recurring villain without it losing its edge.
They treat him like a joke because his costume’s a joke. That’s it.
Anyone who gets filtered by Electro's costume shouldn't be writing Spider-Man comics.
JUSTICE FOR JASON MACENDALE.
>ex-Marine
>ex-CIA
>kicked out for being too much of a psychopath for them so he became a merc
>genuine badass even without the powers (lol, frick off Stern. That's coming from someone who likes Stern's run.) and capable of going toe-to-toe with Moon Knight.
Unironically a more unique villain than another evil businessman, evil scientist or evil gangster. He deserves more respect and better treatment.
I like him more than any of the other Jack O'Lanterns or Hobgoblins, but nobody at Marvel seems to care about bringing him back.
The upcoming 90s Daredevil mini is going to have a Hobgoblin appearance that should be him, unless they get the continuity wrong.
FYI we have an extremely autistic anon who throws a b***hfit whenever you badmouth Electro's costume. This isn't the first thread he's thrown a tantrum in
One Piece villains are better than Spider-Man villainis.
Which member of the Sinister Six would you hang out with? I’d probably hang out with either Mysterio or Sandman since they seem to be the most normal out of the Six. Mysterio would probably be up for a movie marathon and Sandman just seems like, again, a normal dude just down to get a bite to eat and just shoot the shit
None of them, they all suck.
Sandman is my best pick. I don't like my chances of survival with the others and I'd worry about running into Mysterio when he's bored.
Sandman. Easily the most down to earth of the original lineup even if he'd probably be a little rude.
The only other one I'd even consider is Mysterio since he's actually pretty sane, and he'd probably use me as a test run for his latest mind-breaker.
>Max is an super butthole
>Adrian is the ultimate cantankerous curmudgeon
>Sergei's a psycho who would probably only want to talk about THE HUNT
>Otto doesn't give a frick about anyone but himself and has an ego the size of the Sun
>Hey Kraven, pretty hot today huh?
>Yes it reminds me of THE HUNT
>Hot?
>Ahhh, yes, That takes me back to one of my first hunts! I was in Aziziya, Libya, when I was hunting a Scimitar-Horned Oryx on the 13th September 1922. The devil keeled over from heat exhaustion, right before I could make my killing strike! The temperature was 136 as I'd later discover but it made for a very disappointing outing. There's a reason the animal is extinct in the wild now, damned things are asking for a culling.
>Damn that’s something man. Anyways how’ve you been?
>Good my friend like my expedition to India in 1945 to hunt a tiger that had turned to man eating. I was in my estate when the call came in from…
I feel like Otto would be fun to talk to for a little bit- I'm a geek so I'd love to have someone to talk science shit with, most people just don't have a big appreciation for neurology and honestly listening to people explain how a complicated machine works is some sort of weird ASMR to me- but it would get grating really quickly because it'd just devolve into ego-strokery after 15 minutes. That's just comic Otto tho, some of the adaptation versions seem like they're more capable of holding a conversation.
Sounds like Raimi Otto would be more your speed. That is if the tentacles aren’t fricking with his brain
Yeah, that's about what I was thinking. I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to keep him talking after he gets going about himself, but your reward for doing so would just be more egotism.
>Down to earth
I get it… cause he’s made of sand
Talking movies with Mysterio might be fun, be he'd probably get pissed off/condescending at you for not having as much obscure knowledge as him, and then you end the day by coming home to find that your girlfriend has been brutally murdered in a way that closely resembles some forgotten slasher movie and you're framed for it (regardless of the fact that you've never even had a girlfriend)
Are there any good stories I should read of the Shocker? I always liked him as a villain growing up but I never really read alot of the comics.
Can't go wrong with his first appearance
he's pretty great in Chip Zdarsky's Star-Lord, there's Superior Foes to and Ms Marvel vol4 #35 has him be really fun trying to arch her. That's recent stuff wise, there's a good issue of Amazing Spider-man #364 where he tries to upgrade himself to get over his scourge phobia which was introduced in Deadly Foes of Spider-man which is worth a look before checking Superior Foes
The best way to get more exposure for Scorpion is an appearance in a major motion picture. Obviously as a main villain. This way, he'll become more mainstream and you'll be more likely to see some Scorpion stories popping up.
Generally this happens when tv/movie writers come up with some better ideas than anyone in comics and that better version is used from that point on. Like Timm Clayface and Mr Freeze, MCU Rocket, that kind of thing. Scorpion could really use another kind of writer taking a stab at him and trying something other than guy in mech suit, or giant mutant bug monster
What villains would work better for other characters and vice versa?
I love Morbious from spider-man TAS.
I like scorpion's design from new ways to die
What do you like about it? Because I can't think of a reason, it looks rather ugly.
>fr fr he got rizz asthetics bro *tiktok edit*
I like the way his tail looks, I like the slim armor plating it has, I like the forearm pincers, and I like his sharp teeth. He looks like a freak. I wish mark bagley could draw scorpion in this get up. Classic scorpion and ultimate scorpion are neat too.
I never got why his costume had a mouth on it, the few times he doesn't have one I thought it looked better. I have wondered if this was why Venom had a mouth since that seems to be a theme for the anti-Spider guys
>He looks like a freak.
Aha. He totally does. It just doesn't work for me, I guess.
I always liked Ultimate Scorpion
I thought this was Ultimate Scorpion?
No I think that's Slott's scorpion
Ultimate scorpion was a clone of peter
how would you lot redo his rogues gallery for the new ultimate line?
Someone suggested it in another thread but someone said they wanted mysterio to be all about horror effects
Have scorpion not be a clone. Have him be a mutant or some dude with his dna splice with scorpion dna. Also add some more body horror to the green goblin. Have hobo goblin use Norman's reach and gear to start a merc company.
That was me. Mysterio would do some hellrasier 1-3 and the void type stuff. And evil dead stuff too.
>or some dude with his dna splice with scorpion dna
Yeah, that’s what I pitched. The idea being that both him and Peter were the results of cross-species experiments where they’d be legit half-animal hybrids. But unlike the Lizard, the two were the only ones to retain human form and were able to make the most of it as a result. This is because the two had the right DNA to ensure perfect synthesis. Of course, Mac being half-Scorpion means he’d be much stronger than Pete, making him a genuine threat. A true Evil-Spider-Man.
By the way, Pete would still get his powers from a spider-bite but like the movies and Ultimate, it’s a genetically modified one. Can’t veer too much away from the original idea.
I'm okay with Max being genetically modified but Spiderman should stay was a result of a radioactive spiderman. Contrast spiderman and scorpion a bit more. The "perfect" predator versus the accident
Radioactivity doesn’t work like that. It’s why they changed it to a genetically modified spider in modern renditions. And in those modern renditions, the spider bite is ALWAYS an accident. No radioactivity necessary.
I just prefer the radioactive spider.
>Radioactivity doesn’t work like that
I don't think gene editing/cross species engineering would result in a nude growing a scorpion tail. The only think I know about gene editing/cross breeding is that it made a goat produce spider silk when being milked. Plus we already had two movie spider men and the ultimate spidermen already have their powers tied to oscorp
>It makes sense to have Scorpion debut AFTER the Spider-Slayers.
Makes sense
>nude
*dude
It makes sense to have Scorpion debut AFTER the Spider-Slayers. OsCorp sends out the machines to kill Spider-Man, but Spidey takes them down. From this, they learn that they need to play him at his own game. Can’t send a machine to do a MAN’s job. With this, they go to work to create Scorpion, the Ultimate Spider-Slayer.
Could take a page out of Spidey 94 and make Alistair Smythe into Scorpion, him being "The Ultimate Spider-Slayer" in that. It enables a much more intelligent Scorpion that'd be a better match to the equally intelligent Spider-Man. His motivation being revenge on Spidey for the death of his father, and making it his life's work to not only kill Spidey but to to also kill everyone he loves.
>I don't think gene editing/cross species engineering would result in a nude growing a scorpion tail.
He wouldn't have the tail at first. He'd have these stingers that'd come out of his wrists similar to Spidey's webshooters or organic webs in this case.
The tail, like Spidey's extra arms, would be a result of further mutations that'd lead to the two to becoming full monster men. Man-Spider and Super-Scorpion. It'd be this really cool monster fight.
Damn that's a good one
To start, not have half of them be mutants.
Also, drop mini Hulk goblin, that was fricking bad and clearly made by someone who just plain outright hated the core concept of Green goblin as to do everything 100% different for the sake of it being different.
The point of the Ultimate U was to be a much more grounded version of the standard Marvel U. You can't be "grounded" while also having the big bad look like he's trick or treating. It'll look ridiculous. So he had to be redesigned to fit the new setting.
Shocker being a power weapons dealer. Selling less power shocker gauntlets, not leg eco skeletons, and ghetto rig laser guns to gangers
This was a good look for Mysterio. I think the belt was a good choice, I’ve always thought that it needed something to break up how monotonous the suit looks if that makes sense
I don't know about how I feel about the design as a whole, the purple and red is a little Magneto for me and I miss the classic gauntlets especially, but the belt's definitely cool. Feels like you could sneak a couple extra gadgets in there too.
I mean I like the color but that’s just cause red is my favorite color. But I would prefer if this did have the classic Mysterio colors. Gauntlets I’m 50/50 on, again I’d probably prefer the classic gauntlets but I don’t see anything wrong with the ones it’s already got
It doesn't change the only thing I ever thought needed changing on Mysterio, which is the green pinstriped suit. It seems way too plain for a big flashy special effects kind of guy. I would have assumed something more hypnotizing or confusing to throw off anyone that looks at him.
Can the Marveldrones kindly frick off with their off topic shit in a Rogues thread already. Go make a Marvelcuck thread if you want to talk it so badly.
Anyway back to Rogues.
Cold’s costume sucks.
Never liked ow forever Evil reversed Snart getting actual cold powers and going back to the cold gun. For some reason his using a gun makes the casuals and haters complain about him Aquaman style. But I did like the progression of the character.
The gun is awesome and his trademark. The Rogues have a theme of using tech/gear anyway, and none of them have powers anymore.
It sets him apart from the more popular Mr Freeze. Plus, Flash has actual powers. Why can’t the Rogues?
>It sets him apart from the more popular Mr Freeze
Cold is canonically stronger than Mister Freeze and if you ask me it should be the other way around. Freeze should lose his gun, and should either have special gauntlets or ice powers. Why? Because it's more thematic for Victor and shows the state of his condition, unable to touch/interact with the outside world
>Flash has actual powers. Why can’t the Rogues?
Because the entire point of The Rogues is that they're blue collar crooks/thieves that had to adapt to the superhero problem to continue to make a living. They got better gear to do the job, and it shows their ingenuity
But why pit them against the guy that’s faster than light? That just seems unfair.
It's their home city, and their gear is specifically designed to counter/nerf The Flash. Will you people read a fricking comic for once?
>their gear is specifically designed to counter/nerf The Flash
What plot armour? the super secret power of bad writing?
If the Flash was willing to just kill them it wouldn’t really matter. Because he could easily do that.
But the Flash’s rogues are pretty reserved. They don’t kill people. They just steal stuff. Their traps and tactics are pretty good counters to the flash because he isn’t going all out.
It’s the same way that sure, superman COULD beat Metallo by flying into orbit to shoot lasers into his eyes. But he doesn’t kill.
Flash does kill. If he has to. Which is specifically why the rogues generally never escalate things
Captain Cold's cold field
Heat Wave's dangerous heat arena
Weather Wizard basically being a god
Mirror Masters laundry list of abilities
You casuals fricking disgust me
Dude, it's just comics. It's not that fricking serious. You act like this shit's the Bible.
>This shit is stupid and doesn't make sense
>Actually if you read the material, this is why
>SHUT UP!!!!
Eat a dick
You replied calling someone a casual for defending why the story is that way.
All of which is pointless because Flash is so moronicly fast he may as well have time stop
Because they are some of the most powerful villains in DC.
I would have thought Snart being an intelligent, methodical criminal that accomplishes what he sets out to do sets him apart from the beta orbiting rapist Freeze.
This just reminded me that flash has the lamest villains
Sandman has always been my favourite
>is deceptively super powerful and potentially avengers level threat
>is just too dumb to take advantage of this most of the time, his defeats are usually because he doesn’t even realise he has other options with his powers
>lots of scenarios where he actually becomes good because he isn’t a malicious character generally speaking, more just out for himself and has a horrible past
>actual sympathetic backstory
>doesn’t kill people as far as I remember so believable when he’s redeemed now and then
Also Sandman weirdly had more interactions with non Spider-Man characters than almost any other Spider-Man villain. Literally just the big hitters like Osborn, Doc Ock and Venom and other symbiotes have more
Always enjoy it when he’s in a super team. He’s a chill dude. Really like his rivalry then friendship with Ben Grimm
I kind of wonder how a villain prison would work. you would think the most powerful guys are the kings of the place since they can kill anyone around them easily. But also the guards should keep the superpowered guys away from the non powered guys, or send those to regular prison.
If the big hitters kill anyone they’re gonna go into isolation so they’d avoid that unless they’re just crazy.
Usually there’s some form of power dampening machines to explain why they can’t escape whenever they want. So even if you’re normally powerful, you wouldn’t wanna piss off a group of normal buff murderers
Then again. Since they clearly put normals in with superpowered people. Maybe the henchmen just keep working for their bosses on the inside in their own little prison gangs
There would probably need to be specialized prisons for all sorts of villains. Someone like the hobgoblin or the kingpin would just be sent a super max while someone like electro or doctor octopus would be sent to some sci fi shit.
dont they literally get sent to the negative zone
>>is deceptively super powerful and potentially avengers level threat
>>is just too dumb to take advantage of this most of the time, his defeats are usually because he doesn’t even realise he has other options with his powers
wow it's just like every other spider-man villain
>thread about Spidey villains
>insecure and constantly seething Flashhomosexuals show up to shill their literal who villains
every single time
This is actually the first time that's happened in a Spidey thread. However your anti-Flash baiting and shitposts is well documented here and even Cinemaphile when people brought up the idea of a Flash game.
You're just a prick
happened in the last thread as well and happens every time people want to compare Spidey and Batman's villains. You bringing up Cinemaphile (why?) just tells me you force your boring hero-villain dynamic everywhere, not just here.
>You bringing up Cinemaphile (why?)
Because you suck at hiding who you are