And so do most of Miyazaki's films. As a Westerner, when I watch a Japanese production there should be some attempt to immerse me in what folkloric elements are being used. Yet to most people, this is just weird quirky shit happening. All of the yokai, tsukumogami, oni and so on are turned into this soup of weird faces and unless you go out of your way to understand the significance of these paranormal entities it's just white noise from start to finish.
Now there's an argument to be made here that we've seen a trend recently, where most people prefer strict translation over localization, but in Spirited Away's case it still doesn't fricking tell the viewer anything and is more like a Greatest Hits of spooky Japanese creatures. If everyone knew this and it attempted to try and clue us in it'd elevate the film but just like everything else this guy has made it's just "look at le funny weird faces! look at le large animal that is le kind to humans!"
This whole wistful feeling is stupid and patronizing. There are real meanings to this shit and most people are effectively forced to interpret a film like Spirited Away as random supernatural nonsense which *feels* Japanese... for some reason. And people praise him for that. If the alternative is constant flashing of TL notes for cultural references then fine, that's what the story needs to be told to an overseas audience who doesn't know all of this stuff by heart. Without it, you just have the little girl going through a place and meeting random monsters. Boring.
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Tl;dr
Wrong board
Ignore this anon you're always welcome here my anime friend 🙂
I watched Porco Rosso the other day at the kinoplex, it was really good.
Porco Rosso is the best Miyazaki by a mile and the only people who disagree are invariably total pseuds.
>a fat lazy pig who flies a plane and pervs on teenagers but really he loves a cabaret singer
He's literally me
That's awesome. Porco is probably my favourite Miyazaki, I'm jealous you got to see it in the theatre.
He sold his soul to the devil so that he could continue living, right? That's why he's a pig?
Porco Dio?
No he just sort of didn't like war, which was his sincerity. But it translated into a rationalization of cowardice, so he didn't fight hard enough while others died.
This makes him a pig.
It's more of a Japanese selling your soul. A private thing but which can't be hidden, even though no one knows why they just know he's a pig.
Mostly it's his own self-image.
Partly it's guilt for joining the war at all.
>A pig who can't fly is only a pig
Brilliant fricking film, beautiful, beautifully animated, great score.
It looks fricking great on the big screen. It usually plays once a year in the US.
Perfect Blue > Power Gap > Akira > Nausicaa > GITS > Spirited Away > Millennium Actress > Paprika > Mononoke
Paprika is such a meme. Over Mononoke? At least Monomemeke was more interesting... uueooggh the dream world is dripping into the real wurld!!! some real 3rd grade writing there god I hate japanese writing.
Parade scene makes it. One dumb moment but it’s the best anime film scene since Commies being shot in wolf brigade.
>As a Westerner, when I watch a Japanese production there should be some attempt to immerse me in what folkloric elements are being used.
the world should not cater to you. as a westerner, do you expect your movies to be made for foreign markets to take time to explain every joke and reference to another western thing? no.
where's redline? where's mindgame? tekkonkinkreet? patlabor? genocidal organ? harmony? on-gaku? roujin Z? tokyo godfathers? jin-roh? so many other ghibli films?
honestly, shit list.
what else do you recommend? im tired of shit anime movies getting lauded and wasting my time. anime review sites are utterly useless because the userbase is generally braindead
Macross
Macross 7
Macross Plus
Macross DYRL
Gundam trilogy movie 3
Gundam 0080
Gundam 0083
Gundam Unicorn episode 1-3
LOGH if you have a minecraft style grind game to play in the background.
Gundam Wing if you've never watched it including Endless Waltz.
Gundam 00 is alright but not super great
Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans is okay
Watch Netflix's Junji Ito shit. Great shit.
>its all mecha
Satoshi Kon doesn't even make good animation, let alone an interesting story. Only autistic weaboos actually like his work.
Never even heard of power gap, or Gita.
And it seems neither has google.
Power gap isn't a film
newbies.
>As a Westerner, when I watch a Japanese production there should be some attempt to immerse me in what folkloric elements are being used
Why? Get good dork.
Lol Japanese people don't even know most of them are working class morons
>Oh it's a noh mask, neat.
Which is three letters more than a westerner would know, cause the japs didn't understand it either
>Oh it's a mask, neat.
The alternative is creators altering their work simply to appease overseas audiences, which I'm not fond of. If you want to enjoy foreign films, you gotta put the work in to learn more about their culture.
This is a teachable moment for you, as the twittergays would say.
Americans are incapable of understanding films (or any other media, for that matter) as anything other than products for their consumption. The very concept of art is lost on them.
Because foreign films like Spirited Away omit details when they're brought overseas. That's no fault of the consumer.
Cinemaphile is way too politically motivated when it comes to japan and it instantly makes me cringe
moron
>All that to say "I was bored"
Stick with dubs then, mouthbreather. You're not ready for the sub life yet.
Anon... It's a cartoon Miyazaki made for his friend's 10 year old daughter. She was 12 when he finished it.
I'm not being facetious, that's what it is. He's talked about it in interviews.
Joe Hisaishi carrys ghibili so much, the animation is great and the scripts are really bland
Grave of Fireflies
Kaguya
Pom Poko
and I watched it must have been asleep because apparently
Only Yesterday
is very good as well
Neighbor Yamadas is weird, but it's VERY honest.
Pom Poko might be Ghibli's second best film, also a bit too honest about Japanese.
Boy and the Heron has miyazaki as the boy but the old wizard is Takahata. This is a bit of the Japanese humblebrag self-deprication thing, but I can believe it.
Takahata FRICKING NAILED honest Japan, sort of brutally taking apart Japan as a fricked up society with a lot of darkness, but then rounding it back to make Japan sympathetic and charming and make us appreciate why Japan has that darkness why the good Japan can't really exist without the bad, or else it wouldn't be Japan.
>Spirited Away sucks
no
>And so do most of Miyazaki's films
the rest are pretty bad
Im sick of Miyazaki wank. Once you see one of his movies you have seen them all. Theres a frustrating lack of any venture outside of the same characters, themes, archetypes, and art direction. It’s entirely emblematic of his own personal ego and dictatorial hold on the studio, publicly trashing his own son and anyone who tries to bear a torch to the next generation.
Its a shame seeing one of the best animated studios in history cloistered so hard by one man’s anemic creative vision.
It's just an indictment of everyone else. He's still the best we get. captcha: YJGAG
Howl’s Moving Castle is genuinely good and no one can dispute this.
I personally didn't care for it.
There is very little clarity about WHO Howl is fighting and who are the two factions that are fighting each other.
The whole urgency in the movie is set up against this war, yet none of it is described well.
>who are the two factions that are fighting each other
whatever "home" country they live in, and some neighboring country.
>WHO Howl is fighting
i will agree that its not exactly clear if he's fighting for one side or if he's fighting them both as "anti war in general". according to a cursory wiki search, it seems that the home country is losing the war because their steampunk stuff doesnt stack up to the magic stuff of the neighboring nation. from that, one could assume that the "wizards" that howl fights (that he says can never change back) are from the neighboring country. however, since it is vague, and suliman put out the call for all wizards to enlist, it could also be somewhat assumed that they were from the home country and that was the result of being enlisted.
also, the war is because the prince of the neighboring country is missing. the prince turns out to be turnip head under a curse. since suliman seems sad about the war ending (despite representing the losing side?) it can be inferred (and many fans do) that SHE caused the curse and instigated the war, due to some convoluted plot or other.
regardless, there is nothing in the film to indicate support or picking sides in the war. in regards to the war, its basically just "war bad" because of all of the devastation and turmoil. its just a secondary event or plot device to help give the characters some conflict and direct their actions. the details of the war REALLY dont matter. what DOES matter is that howl is putting himself in various forms of danger (combat, and risky transformation. as well as being a wanted man because he isnt reporting for duty). thats it. thats all the war serves. well, that and turnip head existing. because the curse breaks and the war can end, all 3 of those dangers get removed, so they are free to have their happy ending. if there wasnt a war going on, the conflict wouldnt really exist, and they could just live happily, and we wouldnt really have a movie.
No the prince goes missing, implied because the imperial sorceress has some sort of plot where it doesn't actually matter.
This causes the war, plus Wilheim II hubris.
Howl is required by magical law to fight, but he resists it, but this causes the magical contract to curse him.
It all makes sense.
I think the idea is the sorceress want's Howl's meteor power or whatever.
>Howl is required by magical law to fight, but he resists it, but this causes the magical contract to curse him.
this is not a thing. he willingly transforms into a bird, but the transformation is taxing and risky.
>the prince goes missing
because he was cursed and turned into turnip head. it is later somewhat implied to be suliman's doing, for whatever reason.
>I think the idea is the sorceress want's Howl's meteor power or whatever
he was her last and best student, and he got exponentially better after he made the contract with calcifer. he also fricked off after that contract was made. yes she wanted that power. was the WHOLE thing just a plot to get him to come back and trap him? maybe. its a little unclear, but she DID try to seize the opportunity.
(adding on a little bit more because character limit)
while the cozy daily activities are lovely and take up a significant portion of the film, that would be the ONLY thing we had. the war existing, the tension of the danger, is what gives enough push for things to make progress. for risks to be taken and results to be had, instead of stagnation. the details of the war dont really matter or affect that. all that matters is that its real enough to be a driving force for the characters.
It's a bit oblique. It gets better on rewatch. For some reason Japanese are really autistic and very bad at conveying context they the producers know to the audience who isn't aware of the overall story.
It works with Howl though because of the scarecrow reveal. Which is very fricking dumb in a certain sense, but as a revelation meant to be hidden it's a clever twist.
The problem with Howl is Howl. What the frick is his problem?
The Witch of the Waste is a bit unclear at first, but then you begin to realize that all magic users in this world are basically just dicks, power hungry and arrogant.
Howl's deal is very hard to explain and the Japanese depiction of stoic male romantic feelings is something I've never liked about their culture it fricking sucks.
But Howl is European as frick a love letter. Even the horrific depiction of European violence (WWI) is somehow treated as beautiful and inspiring by Miyazaki like he's genuinely envious that a culture can have so much beauty, command so much power, do so much destruction all at the same time. He's right to be impressed.
>The problem with Howl is Howl. What the frick is his problem?
like most japanese characters, i always just chalk it up to crippling autism.
i feel like japan has a notion that "if people were sensible and did sensible things, then there wouldnt be a conflict or tension. it would be boring and we would have no story" so they just make most important characters have crippling autism in order to make social tension.
you can especially see this in anything related to romance. when characters are honest with each other, theres no excitement. when characters are nervous, theres tension. you dont see harems with a chad, you see harems with an absolute turbo virgin moron. most of the popular romances, even ones where they are explicitly dating/married, one or both of them have no idea how to handle situations, and everything is about bumbling through it and somehow coming out the other end "closer than before". even when couples are "happily together", they always argue or bicker to some degree, and/or have the "straight one and the stooge" dynamic.
somehow this never gets old to them.
i dislike spirited away, miyazaki and ghibli overall, but this is a really homosexual reason for that
>no you've got to dislike it for the same reason I do!
you're the real homosexual
>there should be some attempt to immerse me
Artists don't owe you shit, entitled moron. Lmao.
>And so do most of Miyazaki's films. As a Westerner, when I watch a Japanese production there should be some attempt to immerse me in what folkloric elements are being used. Yet to most people, this is just weird quirky shit happening. All of the yokai, tsukumogami, oni and so on are turned into this soup of weird faces and unless you go out of your way to understand the significance of these paranormal entities it's just white noise from start to finish.
>Now there's an argument to be made here that we've seen a trend recently, where most people prefer strict translation over localization, but in Spirited Away's case it still doesn't fricking tell the viewer anything and is more like a Greatest Hits of spooky Japanese creatures. If everyone knew this and it attempted to try and clue us in it'd elevate the film but just like everything else this guy has made it's just "look at le funny weird faces! look at le large animal that is le kind to humans!"
>This whole wistful feeling is stupid and patronizing. There are real meanings to this shit and most people are effectively forced to interpret a film like Spirited Away as random supernatural nonsense which *feels* Japanese... for some reason. And people praise him for that. If the alternative is constant flashing of TL notes for cultural references then fine, that's what the story needs to be told to an overseas audience who doesn't know all of this stuff by heart. Without it, you just have the little girl going through a place and meeting random monsters. Boring.
>getting filtered by Miyazaki
Embarrassing thread
that and howl's moving castle are extremely overrated. the endings are abysmal
the only truly great miyazaki films are Princess Mononoke and NTotoro
Reminder that the Miyazaki hate on Cinemaphile is a result of his (correct) comments about the awful state of the anime industry combined with him being popular.
OP is a weeb who is upset that Miyazaki called out his cartoons.
>As a Westerner, when I watch a Japanese production there should be some attempt to immerse me in what folkloric elements are being used.
What a shitty, entitled, stereotypical Westerner, take.
You get what you fricking deserve, and the movie doesn't "owe" you anything just because you're from the west. Frick off. Disgusting mentality.
If he's not a troll he's a fricking idiot.
OP might be a troll for sure but there are plenty of people like him and a surprising amount of people that translate things are in agreement with these types of morons.
Ghibli is normie-friendly anime.
This.
It's why those movies get marketed in the west.
Makoto Shinkai mogs
shut up puto, im gonna rape you
*sighs*
>jap makes movie for japs
>westerner doesnt understand all of the references
>he cant even take it at face value for the underlying story and growth of a scared little girl
>"why dont they infodump everything there is to know about every entity that shows up on screen for me? that would be so much more interesting"
lol. lmao even.
you're fricking moronic and your "solutions" are even dumber, which makes this whole thing come off as a troll pasta.
>why dont they infodump everything there is to know about every entity that shows up on screen for me? that would be so much more interesting
OP was right, It would be more interesting because the underlying story is boring tripe made for small children
>make children's movie
>"this shit is for kids. how boring"
this one sucks, Princess Mononoke is peak Ghibli and I'll die on that hill
Agree and I also like Nausicaa quite a lot. I just bought the manga and I'm excited to dive in.
Maybe not the best film, but the peak of the Ghibli DNA sure.
Porco rosso and princess angry wolf are cool
What's a good Miyazaki fan
It's a Japanese flavored take on Alice in Wonderland. The Witch is directly based on the Duchess and that's where they pulled the "Pig transformation" shit from too.
> A Japanese story needs to be told to an overseas audience
Get fricking bent troony, if you want to watch it you can put in some work to appreciate the culture or you can eat shit and die.
Miyazaki is a troony communist who self-injects as little girls in his films
agreed
Sorry you got tricked by normies into thinking this shit was good, most people who recommend Ghibli just like it for superficial reasons
I don't see why every mythical creature from Japanese folklore has to have its backstory fleshed out in a movie where they're just providing background flavor and they're not the main focus. Imagine if Shrek had had to fully explain who Pinocchio, Snow White, the three little pigs, and all the other fairy tale characters were, that's basically what you're asking for. Interested viewers can research that themselves. I see what you mean insofar as Spirited Away comes off as a little shallow, but Ghibili was obviously going for a more international audience with that movie and was sort of trying to serve as a cultural ambassador for Japan, hence emphasis on providing a visual feast that hints at interesting parts of Japanese culture.
I really enjoy castle in the sky
my homie
These films are meant to convey a secret message that the director actually wants to tell but he feels like he can't say it directly, so it becomes this confusing oblique treatment of something he cares about and maybe other people don't or wouldn't know about if they don't know him so that means it's a waste of time.
Miyazaki literally doesn't give a shit about tying the kids' plot together with the thematic plot with the "secret message". He just sort of throws scenes together then makes one after the other each having it's own isolated idea.
The thing about Japanese narrative art isn't to expect much from it.
Japan is all about aesthetic in a way, but what I really mean is it's about the impression or feeling you get, or literally vibe, from a scene. It can also be very derivative or repititive.
Auteurs are actually expected to stay in the lanes they create or it pisses people off almost autistically "why did you change from what you did before?"
Miyazakis' Boy and His Heron is actually really intriguing with what he's trying to say about his whole career and how he feels about it and how he has finally let go of certain things.
It SEEMS esoteric but it's actually just oblique. And Boy and His Heron is not profound exactly, but after unpacking what he's saying obliquely, his commentary on his career is interesting.
Basically boy and his heron is saying that Miyazaki was tormented by the trauma of Japanese life to create art that would make Japan better and he utterly failed but in the end realized that his movies are just for families to have fun together and enjoy a little escape from hard life and that he too can appreciate his career in that light as just having fun and a little bit of escape from harsh reality and he doesn't need to fix Japan or anything.
Not that his films are meant to fix Japan, but his artistic animus was this dark pressure that secretly aspired for his art to be that great somehow.
didnt see boy and his heron yet, but thats a super interesting take. of the films of his that i've seen, its pretty clear that he always has some sort of "deep" message, and from his interviews and reactions to things, its pretty clear that he took himself extremely seriously. most of his messages are "war bad. industry bad. nature good. spirits/spirituality good." and his general attitude and presence did seem like he was angry at the world for not adhering to that, even if they "understood" the message.
>I'm uncultured moron, I refuse to learn anything new or different about other countries and I'm damn proud of my own ignorance
Just stick to movies from your own country then?
I never understood this moronic thing that some low IQ people have where every single element that doesn't have a 1:1 in their culture must be localized instead.
To me movies, books, and even music are means for me to learn and experience new things as well as enjoy the familiar.
The best miyazaki film isn't even Ghibli.
The plot of this flew very close to the Sun how do the nips even know this shit?
Miyazaki's Over rated but Spirited away, princess mononoke and the post apocalyptic fungus forest are the 3 exceptions. Great films. You. An keep Howlers castle.
Porco Rosso is excellent.
I’ll check it out.
The famous line is
>a pig who can't fly is only a pig
I didn't get the context until I saw Tokyo Vice where Tozawa says
>a man without enemies isn't a man
Anon, have you penetrated anyone yet?
>mutts and asiatics still seething
miyazaki literally wish you'd hate his films. it's like israel seething at iranian films but that just makes sense and doesn't mean anything more. the best you can do is ignore him completely
All of his movies are trash
This one is okay, but yes most are mostly garbage especially his latest slop.
What I like about ghibli films and their imitators is that they let you get lost in the lore of the world but keep a thread of common story tropes to help you understand what comes first(the human element, the story) and what is secondary and an aesthetic (the theme)
Its funny watching this compared to american animation where they cant go 5 seconds of a character stepping into an unknown realm before looking at the camera and saying "wow...so that just happened.. whe..where am I?? What is this??" Only to have a throwaway character spoonfeed everything to him(actually to the audience).
And yes Porco Rosso is top 3
>All of his movies are trash
Miyazaki writes slop for children, but you are a midwit. The reason fairy tales work is because they're easily understandable by children. Nobody is confused by the actions of any of the characters in Spirited Away. You are not missing any deeper meaning because you don't have a cultural understanding of X or Y.
I found the whole 3rd act so rushed and anti-climatic
But that's basically every Ghibli movie, they have weak beginning and ending, but strong middle.
How did she know her parents weren't there?
you have to say you love this of you are not welcome into the anime club
I thought this was pasta but nobody in the first ~20 replies called it out so I guess not. kys
>As a Westerner
israelite gaslight thread, ignore
Agreed, weeaboo autists are just shilling shitty asiatic noble savage pagan cartoons and passing it off as high art kinography.