>Starts his run by making genosha unusable
>ruins the most interesting development of the most interesting villain
>instead of Magneto The President, he is Magneto the silver age villain twirling his moustache
>Is responsible for muties being endangered species
Why morrison is hailed again? He's the worst writer in the existence, even worse than Bendis
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Agree
thank you, have a nice day
I remember reading Morrison's X-Manifesto that was posted here
Most dumbest shit I've ever read, for some reason they really loved wanking the X-Men movie
yes, morrison never loved marvel, he hated it, and you could argue that he was sabotaging marvel for dc
>and you could argue that he was sabotaging marvel for dc
I've seen that conspiracy theory before, and it's kind of plausible, Morrison did permanently turn one of Marvel's flagship franchises into something much less commercial and profitable, long before any of the "Ike is trying to de-push and cancel X-Men" stuff people complain about had started.
You're right that the books had been in a slow decline for years and something needed to be done, but what they ended up doing was just too drastic a change, and destroyed X-Men as a mainstream cape book.
That’s complete horse shit. Before Morrison jumped ship for Marvel he sued WB for ripping off his Invisibles for the Matrix and swore to never work for DC again. He didn’t go back until Didio offered him a dump truck full of money.
What is this supposed to prove? Because it doesn't prove love for marvel
It disproves he was trying to sabotage Marvel, dipshit. He may not have liked Marvel as much as DC but he definitely didn’t hate them, Morrison talks about in his book Supergods how he literally wept reading Jean Grey’s death and wrote a weepy letter to Claremont after reading it.
Just to remind you, Grant would have been twenty when Jean Grey died.
I think JMS had a good handle on Peter, I just didn't like most of his plots.
It's particularly egregious considering there are several characters who survived Genosha, including Emma, Magneto, and most of the Acolytes, who didn't do jack shit.
>Just to remind you, Grant would have been twenty when Jean Grey died
Okay? Have you read Supergods?
I just think it's funny to imagine a guy in college writing a weepy letter because a character in a comic book was killed off.
If anyone felt like it, you could write a decent enough handwave in that Genosha had just wrapped up a pretty brutal civil war that depleted its military capabilities and that Mags, who at that point was already needing Polaris to boost his powers, was incapacitated from being stabbed, but that doesn't really explain why people like Exodus or Polaris didn't have an impact.
>but that doesn't really explain why people like Exodus or Polaris didn't have an impact.
Austen at least tried to explain Polaris as just fleeing in a panic and only managing to save herself, it was a run where he was deliberately trying to make Lorna look bad. Exodus was presumably not even there, he wasn't there in the previous Genosha story.
>It's particularly egregious considering there are several characters who survived Genosha, including Emma, Magneto, and most of the Acolytes, who didn't do jack shit.
I don't think Grant would have even known who the Acolytes were. He wrote Magneto as injured and in a wheelchair after Logan stabbed him at the end of the previous run, and treated Genosha as totally defenseless without him.
>sabotaging marvel for dc
it's abundantly clear his preference is for DC and its more archetypal gimmicky nonsense, and he's clearly mentally not all there, so it seems plausible to me.
that said i wonder what a Thor run written by Morrison would be like
Are these posts by the same person
are you trying to say that it's impossible to hate morrison? I mean look at him, what a cute baldy
So that's a yes, then
just read it, god was that cringy
>let's make the x-men cool and edgy for the kids again
morrison is an overhyped bum who’s eternal excuse for shit big two books will always be “nooooo editorial wouldn’t let me be me”
his formulaic drivel is garbage.
funny thing is, he had no editorial oversight, which is why his books at marvel sucked. but then again, his animal man run is overrated, I liked the next writer better
>his animal man run is overrated, I liked the next writer better
Oh nice, someone else that actually likes post-Morrison, Animal Man! I actually thought his run ended like shit and the final cop-out was lazy as frick. Then again I really liked when it went balls in on the concept of the red and had him become a weird furry that started a sex cult.
I also like post-Moore Swamp Thing if you're curious.
Yet he made the best Batman and Superman stories of the last 30 years.
because he loves DC and hates Marvel. What part of that you fail to understand. It's easy to make a good superman and batman story, and grant wasn't the only one to do that
>It's easy to make a good superman and batman story
Clearly not too easy
what is the Morrison formula?
Morrison is hailed because he "made the X-Men interesting again". What that boils down to is that X-Editorial at the time were panicing because no one was buying their attempts of rehasing 90s X-Men nostalgia.
Honestly, the things his run had was creating new aspects of X-Men mythos, like having the institute become a school (something Morrison was barely interested in doing), which other writers were actually able to make interesting. Which is a sad statement in of itself. Morrison is not liked for "making X-Men interesting". He's liked for actualy forcing editorial to try different styles of books.
The issue facing X-Men at the time wasn't rehashing 90s nostalgia, Morrison's run was only 10 years out from Jim Lee, it was that the X-line was spinning its wheels creatively, most of the recent plotlines hadn't drawn much interest or were so drawn out that readers stopped caring, and the thing had become deeply self-referential to the point of new readers being lost. And even then, X-Men wasn't doing that badly in terms of sales for the main books, Adjectiveless and Uncanny were still top ten books pushing 100k per month before Morrison took over. Morrison was actually X-Men editorial realizing they were in a rut and things would only get worse so they brought him on specifically to shake things up.
I don't know the validity of the story, but I once read that Marvel's corporate side were furious at editorial when the first X-Men film dropped. Marvel had gotten TV Guide to run a short tie-in to serve as an intro the X-Men, and the resulting story was impenetrable to anyone not already following X-Men comics, squandering a major, high-profile advertisement for comics to the general public. That in turn was a major factor in them curtailing all their on-going plotlines and bringing in new writers to have a jump-on point for readers.
>I don't know the validity of the story, but I once read that Marvel's corporate side were furious at editorial when the first X-Men film dropped. Marvel had gotten TV Guide to run a short tie-in to serve as an intro the X-Men, and the resulting story was impenetrable to anyone not already following X-Men comics, squandering a major, high-profile advertisement for comics to the general public. That in turn was a major factor in them curtailing all their on-going plotlines and bringing in new writers to have a jump-on point for readers.
This is true. It’s why Harras got axed and Quesada got the job. What OP isn’t getting is that context is king here, this was in the days before we had a new Marvel movie every week. The X-Men movie was seen as a serious attempt to reach a new audience, something still-in-bankruptcy-marvel desperately needed. And, let me tell you, Marvel comics the month that the first X-Men movie came out were frick awful. X-Men comics were an impenetrable mess that even people who’d been reading x-men comics for years was having a hard time with. The spider-man books were the god-awful Byrne/mackie boring mess. Quesada and Jemas get a lot of shit (sometimes rightfully so) but they were really responsible for pulling Marvel out of not only the bankruptcy gutter but also the creative gutter.
>This is true. It’s why Harras got axed and Quesada got the job.
Yes and no. It was the official explanation given as to why Harras was fired, but internal leaks talked about it having a lot more to do with the way Ike wanted Marvel run, and with Bill Jemas wanting to play a bigger role in the creative side of Marvel, and wanting an EiC who was on board with his plans.
>Quesada and Jemas get a lot of shit (sometimes rightfully so) but they were really responsible for pulling Marvel out of not only the bankruptcy gutter but also the creative gutter.
Honestly a lot of the changes they made were sideways moves in terms of quality, and they hired a lot of talent who didn't like superheroes, didn't want to be writing superheroes, and tried to turn Marvel superhero books into something else entirely. Even Morrison, a guy who loves superheroes, turned X-Men into something else.
>Honestly a lot of the changes they made were sideways moves in terms of quality
Yeah, no. As someone who was reading shit like X-Men and Spider-Man in ‘99/2000 guys like Morrison and Straczynski coming in was a breath of fresh air. There’s nothing wrong with hiring people who “didn’t want to write super heroes”, I’d argue that’s a better move than hiring fanboys. Compare JMS’s run on Spidey to Slott’s.
Despite his mishaps and some questionable choices JMS did seem like he liked the character, though.
Him (and, for that matter, Jenkins) seemed to understand Peter and his appeal better than most writers that came after. Nowadays you just get oversized toddlers who barely can (or want to) write the compelling drama that makes the character appealing and just go for le epic twists and non-stop action (not necessarily good action eitehr).
Yes. This. I’d take an actual writer who understands things like character and story structure and drama over a fanboy like Slott who just crashes action figures together and tries to sell it by saying “nothing will ever be the same!!!!”
Peter, just climb the fricking tree and any bystander will think "huh that guy is fit".
JMS Hated OMD, he was forced to write it, and he snucked some shit to tell the readers that he doesn't want any of that
You can cherry pick JMS Spider-Man as one of the few things that actually worked, but Morrison's X-Men was far from a breath of fresh air, it changed things far too much far too fast, and not in good ways.
And hiring people who don't want to write superheroes to do the job of writing superheroes, and giving them very little editorial oversight is just as bad as letting fanboys run wild and do whatever they want, it's just a different kind of bad.
>JMS Spider-Man
>Morrison X-Men
>Bendis Daredevil
>the entire Ultimate Universe
>Johns Avengers
Look, you can argue about the quality all you want but the fact is that what they did do worked. Marvel was pulled out of bankruptcy, they were succeeding enough to get a loan to make their own fricking movie, and then got bought out by Disney for four billion dollara-doos. Do you really think, if Marvel had continued on the course it was going in the summer of 2000, any of that would have happened?
Marvel was pulled out of bankruptcy by movie money that came flooding in after the first Blade movie proved to Hollywood that there was potential in these characters, they weren't lifted out of bankruptcy by Quesada-era comics selling so much better than late 90s Marvel that it somehow paid off all their debts.
As for your list, this whole thread is about how bad for Marvel Morrison's X-Men was, Bendis' Daredevil gets more acclaim than it probably deserves, but didn't really sell better than Daredevil usually sells, and Johns' Avengers didn't really move the needle before Jemas' interference drove him away. JMS on Spider-Man and Ultimate Marvel were the two big success stories of the time, and one of those is a line of AU books mostly written by edgelords, it's embarrassing to look back on a lot of it.
Quesada and Jemas didn't do the job well, though. It's a miracle that marvel survived. But frankly, the characters WERE THAT GOOD
Sales literally tripled on Amazing Spider-Man when JMS took over. The Ultimate Universe is, to this day, used as an entry point for casuals.
>X-Men comics were an impenetrable mess
Is that not true now? I've been wanting to get into contemporary X-Men again after 25, 30 years of not reading comics but it's a nightmare of figuring out what is what. I've been stalking the listings in my free time and after a couple months, this is the best I've come up with-
>House of X/Powers of X
>Dawn of X trades Vol. 1-16
>somewhere around here is X of Swords shit
>somewhere around here is Hellfire Gala
>Reign of X trades Vol. 1-14 (?, not sure how many there are)
>Trials of X trades begin
And that's likely incomplete. It's full-on asinine with the ______ of X names. It's like trying to discern which order to watch the Resident Evil movies on title alone.
>Pantomime of X
>Orange Peel Zest of X
>Weird Al Yank-of-X
And none of it tells me how far back I have to go for anything to make sense, how much other stuff I need to get my hands on. I have the Claremont run Masterworks 1-14 so at least I have some runway before this doomed flight takes off.
homie, just start with #1, are you daft. I preschool kid is capable of getting x-men, but somehow, you need a fricking chart
Krakoa shit could not be made easier to get into. Just look it up on wikipedia.
I don't understand the timeline. How many Jean Grey deaths in was this?
>How many Jean Grey deaths in was this?
One. And that one had been retconned to not really be her.
Geniunly the Morrison run fricked X-men harder than any other run. Even the utter stagnation of the 90s was better than what he did.
That's not entirely true, X-men was still marve's number 1 book, and under Morrison the sales had a dip anyways
>even worse than Bendis
now, hol' on there, pardner
Holy checked.
>hat that boils down to is that X-Editorial at the time were panicing because no one was buying their attempts of rehasing 90s X-Men nostalgia.
false
>Magneto the silver age villain twirling his moustache
Good. Same goes for Waid and Doom.
Morrison just clarly never had the same love for Marvel and it's character that he had for DC
>Starts his run by making genosha unusable
True
>ruins the most interesting development of the most interesting villain
True, but they didn't really have anywhere else interesting they were going with it
>instead of Magneto The President, he is Magneto the silver age villain twirling his moustache.
True, he was very out of character at that point.
>Is responsible for muties being endangered species
What? No. Despite Genosha, Morrison's time with X-Men is when Xavier's school "came out", when mutants were depicted as becoming a subculture, when there started being mutant neighborhoods, when there were mutant international corporations. The growth of mutants under Morrison was something editorial specifically wanted to undo, hence Bendis' House of M and the actual storyline that made them a literal endangered species.
was his run when "mutants = black people" as a civil rights metaphor got switched to 'mutants = gays"?
The mutant metaphor was for passing israelites, not black people.
You can't forget
>BRO
>WHAT IF MUTANTS WERE HATED BECAUSE............
>EVIL BACTERIA
*gasp*
Wait, is Beast back to being hot cat Beast again?
>Is responsible for muties being endangered species
He turned mutant population into millions in the first place
only to kill them. brilliant move grant'
thankfully district x managed to do something interesting, no thanks to you grant
>only to kill them
Which had little consequences in his own run. In fact, I'm convinced he didn't conceive Genosha as being 90% of the mutant population.
You gotta understand that Morrison hates Marvel and wants to completely destroy it
Why do no Super Heroes notice when millions of people get wiped out?
Morrison's story was that Genosha was destroyed in a matter of minutes, before anyone could possibly have responded, and his entire run barely acknowledges any other superheroes existing at all anyway. If you want to actually get into where other characters were at that time in comics, the Avengers were dealing with Kang's invasion of Earth and multiple wars across the world that he'd started, and the F4 had been stuck in the Negative Zone around the same time.
Despite Morrison's choice not to involve other Marvel heroes in his run, later writers kept having Emma screech "where were you?" at them and acted like we were meant to agree with her.
It's worth remembering that Genosha had been a rogue nation and the story immediately before Morrison started was all about Magneto's plan to start a race war against the rest of the world. So most people on Earth would have shed no tears for Genosha.
I still find it exceptionally stupid that not one of the 16 fricking million mutants could stop one sentinel.
Majority of the mutants have either useless powers or a power that decrease their quality of life. The more important question is why did the powerhouse like Magneto, Polaris, and Exodus did nothing.
I mean even if powerhouse like this only represented 0.001% of the mutant population, that's still over a hundred of the frickers that should have been able to do something.
Polaris freaked out and panicked after she saw a shit ton of people die and was barely able to save herself.
Trying to stop a massive intergalactic war after Kang killed millions of people blowing up both the UN and Washington DC, and was primed to kill far more
ITT Hickmangays
16 million mutants and they didn’t have ANY sort of military response ready for a potential attack? They deserved it
>Why morrison is hailed again? He's the worst writer in the existence, even worse than Bendis
actual midwit take here
>What if the X-Men but nobody is in character and cheats on everyone else and I have my revoltingly ugly OC's featured all the time (also have Quietly so he can draw everything looking like dogshit) and the bad guy is drugs, also drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs.
Frick off Morrison. Frick off anyone who likes this one trick pony homosexual troony drug addict.
Quitely is the best comic book artist of this century.
too bad morrison gives him a bad name
According to who? Your fricking seeing eye dog?
>making love
Damn Charles, why not give those poor mutants some privacy for the last few moments of their life?
charles is bald, watchers are bald. coincidence?
Morrison apes certain writers and starts big gay drama with other writers. The X-Men run is only liked because it's Morrison, not because it's good. Tell someone who never read it that it was written by Millar or Bendis and they will shit on it.
Morrison fanboys are fricking insufferable.
The thing that gets me is that you're expecting me to believe that out of 16+ million mutants, none of them have the power to kill a giant robot?
Emma always asks "Where were the Avengers," but why are the X-Men sitting in their mansion watching the Genoshan genocide happen given a pass?
The X-men were drinking their wine in their mansion and wondering how they can scapegoat the Avengers and humans for what happened to Genosha despite the fact that it was all orchestrate by Xavier's evil twin sister.
This was before Beast was a shithead. No way he'd let the X-Men scapegoat the Avengers and his bro Wondey.
Beast honestly is more fun in the avengers. With the x-men hes just science man.
Most mutants are more fun when they're allowed to be outside of the X-Men's clutches.
If Cassandra is supposed to Xavier's twin sister why does he look like a guy in his early 50s while she looks like she'll break a hip if the wind blows too hard?
Cassandra is using an Xavier cloned body but modified to be female. Xavier officially had the Five give him a younger body whenever he is resurrected.
Even before then. Everyone forgets that Xavier isn't some doddering grandpa, he's only about 20 years older than O5.
the "first of the second generation" shit was just a way to explain how Apo was the first mutant and that there were a few older than him. But Orando was too dumb to understand that and made some really stupid backstory about mutants living billions of years ago.
Cassandra is gonna need to see someone for her back for how hard her psychotic ass is carrying that book.
Hank is also just a big cat for no reason. It's pretty stupid
Wasn't that was because Sage fricked with his X-Gene in X-Treme to save his life and caused a secondary mutation.
Oh. Maybe? It was still fricking stupid regardless.
That was a retroactive explanation that was written months later. Claremont had originally claimed Beast for his book's cast, but Morrison also wanted him, and had his run begin with Hank having turned into a cat. Claremont had already started writing his book's opening arc, but had to write Hank out by the end of that story, and also used it to set up his turning into a cat, and Morrison didn't even really explain it.
I usually love Morrison but his X-men run just kind of sucks. It feels like it's written by jaded version of himself or something.
What's weird is that mutants in-universe don't really seem to care that much that 16 million mutants just died, it was only AFTER Morrison left that writers retroactively had the X-Men treat the Genosha genocide as a big deal, even though they had them blame humanity in general for it even though it was all Cassandra Nova's fault.
Have they ever been called out on that? Makes no sense
I mean, logically it should be a 9/11 x holocaust events for mutant, 16 millions is a big number.
In perspective, Genosha would be the equivalent of the complete depopulation of Wisconsin and Michigan within a few minutes.
or about a bit under half of Canada
The entirety of Somalia. The entire metro area of Bangkok, Thailand. New York City, twice.
>even though it was all Cassandra Nova's fault.
Technically it was the fault of Trask's literal who dentist cousin whom Cassandra talked into committing genocide.
Didn't she just use him to gain access to the facility through backdoor genetic biometrics, then killed him once she was able to replicate his DNA?
She still needed him to give the order iirc. Didn't even brainwash him, she just talked him into it and he was like "well, maybe genocide isn't so bad".
>no one expected it
Sounds like Genosha's defence forces sucked at their job.