Still funny to this day.

You're right. Awful is too strong a word to describe the art, but it's not good.

It's VERY unfortunate that most of Under the hood is handled by Mahnke and Nguyen, who are great, but the climax issue is handled by some rando named Eric Battle who was a fill in guy. really should've delayed it to let Nguyen finish is, but mainsteam comics don't care about art even though now the reprint will exist forever with hacky art for the most important part of the comic.

I really hate when that happens.

Damn, DC is so chickenshit that when they finally do "Batman Finally Kills the Joker", it's over in four pages.

Yeah, we were stuck with the dumbest fricking thing ever: JLA - Tower of Babel on Steroids.

Doesn't count because they both had fallen into a big pool of SUPER Lazarus goo at the bottom of the cave. That was also the "explication" for why Joker always survived all the times he should have died. In fact, there's a whole issue where an amnesiac Bruce Wayne talks to now-sane Joker, with a veiled conversation about how he'll turn back into the Joker if Bruce becomes Batman again.

if the joker cant die by batman, so batman's sidekick (at odds with batman) taking him out is sort of poetic. since batman wont get vengeance, then just wrap up the resurrected jason story in a good way

nah, jason is a former robin, now the red hood and he is a lot more credible than jimmy olsen. he also has a reason to kill the joker. your reasoning is non-existent and super moronic.

yeah ok so the joker can never die because the guy who is his arch-nemesis, doesnt kill. youre trying too hard to sound smart but jason isnt an ewok, hes a guy who kills a ton of people and has a reason to do this. seeing as how batman failed him, jason taking it into his own hands would be fine. joker shouldnt be immortal. after ADITF there was nowhere to take the joker but to the shed and erase him for once.

nah thats even worse. making joker this mega plot-armored murderous psycho who never pays for his crimes is terrible booking. its what we have and thats not even an ending, which is what we're talking about. jason todd is a grown up dude, hes not a little kid when he comes back. him being tied to batman, and them having a problem over batman's failure tells a great story. shit, ADITF has to go somewhere eventually, particularly if youre bringing jason todd back. everything you wrote just says you have no clue on writing a good payoff. durr joker gets away! hurr hurr

>and he is a lot more credible than jimmy olsen
homie, Jimmy Olsen goes hard. You know who made their first appearance in a Jimmy Olsen book? DARK FRICK SEID! The newsboy legion has seen shit that would send a shiver down any bats spine.

>no argument after being btfo
>b-but i'm sure my previous times getting btfo my smarter people showed you how wrong you are!!!
Lmao
Grow up and face reality, you don't get to get away with murder.

God created Jesus to forgive all evil sinners. Jesus even walked into hell to forgive all past sinners.

God's ideal of "repentance" is just accepting Jesus and Christianity before death. It has nothing to do with making up for your sins with equal action, only accepting Jesus' forgiveness.

Read your own shit.
>but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus
That's all it takes to be washed, and that's all it takes to be unrighteous. If you accept Jesus you are washed, if you don't you are unrighteous.

Read it again. It said that all of those people were those things, but they are washed of those things and allowed to enter heaven because they accepted Jesus
>11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Literally: "You were all of these things, BUT I will still let you into heaven if you accept Christ"

Holy shit learn some reading comprehension you dullard.

I fricking beg you anon, READ your own goddamn book instead of just copy pasting off of yahoo answers shit
“Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
is not Jesus saying you have to live a holy life to enter heaven, it is a quote from Luke where a woman says that Jesus' mother is a holy being for giving birth to him, and Jesus counters that she is no more holy than a person who simply lives a holy life.
So too are all your other quotes mixmatched and taken out of context in meaning they were not used in.

In the most plain and obvious of terms, without any wallybrained re-re-reinterpretations of vague speeches angled towards a narrative, the Bible says thus:
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Except it's not, read Luke you disingenuous cretin. You're trying to paste a verse from fricking Matthew onto it when that's not even what Jesus' conversation is about, it was about his mother Mary.

It comes STRAIGHT FROM JESUS' OWN MOUTH in John: "He that believeth on him is not condemned"
And in Mark following his ressurection: “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

How do you interpret those, other than what Jesus is LITERALLY saying?
The fact you have to jump through hoops and fake copy-paste conversations that didn't exist to paint a narrative is pathetic, when Jesus himself says all you have to do is believe in him.

To be saved, it is necessary to love Christ. But Christ Himself teaches that the ones who follow His commandments are the ones who love Him.

Batman's no-kill rule specifically comes from the days of the Comics Code Authority, which was very heavily based on Christian morality. The idea was that, since superheroes are not law enforcement, they can not kill and find it morally apprehensive.

>no argument
Typical and expected. As so often with edgy teens like you.

>SENSELESS BRUTAL MURDER
You are such a fricking baby. All your homosexual "alternatives" have been practiced in real life many times and produced ruinous anracho-tyranny in which criminals are free to terrorize the innocent.

They can shoot to incapacitate, even with real bullets. Murder never needs to be on the table.

>No argument
Take your own advice and grow up past your edgy teen phase

that you take the hard way, and the RIGHT way, instead of taking the easy way every time like weak, pathetic cowards like you want.
Justice isn't ever easy. But it's what is right.

No, with their skill they'll be able to incapacitate the terrorists and send them to be rehabilitated. Even if doesn't work, at least they won't be weak, cowardly degenerates like you and all the other edgy teens in this thread.

Stop taking the bait. He’s baiting you. He has to be. No one is this stupid.

You have a point but even so by now you have to know that trying to convince someone THIS stupid is pointless.

>Uses Sheep as an insult.
>Then talks about following the word of God, the ultimate Shepard.
Yeah, this guy is a moron.

God how I wish they had just had the courage to do Batman right in the New 52 and erase all of those garbage robins and stupid history that makes bruce look like a child predator and just go back to Dick as robin.

I 100% agree with you.

Keeping GL and Batman's history for the New 52 never made sense. If they were going to do a reboot then it needed to be a HARD reboot.

frick you they got rid of Cass. "Keep Batman's history" my ass, we lost the best one.

>Jason should have remained a villain. His and Batfam's entire post-flashpoint relationship is very forced.

Making him a villain doesn't even work either. You can't throw him in Arkham or Blackgate because as shown in canon he'll just kill as many people as he can get away with while incarcerated. He knows all their secret identities so he could frick them over at any given time, and he's not like the Joker who doesn't give a shit about who Batman is under the mask. Jason would use that to his advantage if he felt the need to. He's not the type to team up with other Batman villains either given his motivations unless you completely change who he is as a person.

He should have never been brought back to begin with.

The fact you're talking about what you totally "would" do is proof enough you don't know what the frick you're talking about. That ain't how the real world works, kid. Actions have consequences, and murder is never ok.

>and murder is never ok.
killing an intruder is not murder

>You have no right to take another man's life.
neither do they. You have every right to protect your own.

>Not by murdering them, otherwise you're doing the exact same wrong they were doing.
again, killing an intruder is not murder, it is self defense.
What would you propose someone do instead in the event an intruder has invaded their home?

>You can nonlethally detain them and defend yourself without using it as an excuse to be a psychopathic murderous villain.
how do you nonlethally detain them?

>with your hands, the way mankind was designed
a 100 pound woman or senior citizen is supposed to nonlethally detain someone with their hands? You understand that even for a grown man to "nonlethally" detain an intruder, physical confrontation can still get them killed?

When Superman thought he killed some guys he exiled himself from earth forever until it was eventually revealed he didn't really kill them.

>with your hands, the way mankind was designed
a 100 pound woman or senior citizen is supposed to nonlethally detain someone with their hands? You understand that even for a grown man to "nonlethally" detain an intruder, physical confrontation can still get them killed?

That's why you're meant to get married and have family to help you, not resort to degeneracy and murder

>That's why you're meant to get married and have family to help you,
>An intruder! quick, family assemble!
>BANG! BANG! BANG!
>this...is just like...infinity war...

Your granny is now the same sort of raping, torturing, murderous scum that floods the streets and will be duly beaten to a pulp and sent to Arkham were her kind belong.

we are a nontraditional, hardworking, tax paying and peaceful family- though that seems like all the reason a scumbag like you would need to condemn a sweet old womans right to life. My granny lives in a small house in a small neighbor filled with the old folks. its a nice community. but by all means, please vilify my granny and her last ditch attempts to survive an unwanted gang bang and murder. (she cant run fast and she has arthritis so she cont open windows very quickly.

How fricking dare you. i bet youre wearing a ski mask right now.

>anon has his granny live with him
>armed criminals break into his house instead
What's next, he's supposed to defend his property like he's Kevin McCallister? If he calls the cops, are they allowed to use lethal force or is that also degenerate?

>I am sure to win because my morals are superior

You Batgays are beyond delusional.

youre psychotic. My Grampy is a paraplegic and once defended himself from a group of ner-do-well hoodlums. as they approached him with their knives drawn, they promised they were gonna kill him. As my Grampy began to roll away, his chairs battery malfunctioned (made in china, probz) He drew his legally obtained .38 snub nose revolver as as one of the troubled murderous youth made a slash towards my Grampys neck, ol' Grampy shot the would-be-murdered down dead on the sidewalk.
I bet you would blame my Grampy for going out for bread and milk and say HE was in the wrong.
Disgusting, you reek of cruelty disguised as justice and honor

Conservative values and family mean nothing against a bullet

Honestly the real answer is that it shouldn't be Batman's job to kill the Joker to begin with. He's a vigilante. He's not really supposed to be doing half the shit he does to begin with. The Joker should have been legally executed by the government ages ago once it was clear that no prison could hold him and that he will NEVER stop killing people. But that will never happen because then future Batman writers can't use the Joker without coming up with a reason to revive him.

The one time the Joker's potential legal execution came up it was for a crime he didn't actually commit, so Batman had to go out of his way to find the real culprit. But the Joker being executed for all the other shit he was 100% proven to have done is never brought up. The fault really lies with the government, not Batman. But even without them there are plenty of other people who could have and should have done it. No one except for the Joker's insane followers has any reason to want to keep him alive. Not the mobsters, not the other villains, not the corrupt GCPD, not the corrupt politicians, not the corrupt rich people.

But because the Joker is too popular to die, they either fail or never even make the attempt.

Just have multiple jokers who only rise when the current bozo bites it, ez. Can even work the multiple backstories if it is infact a different schizo who went full Society for different reasons.

As for the reason, other than Status Quo/Gotham demands a Joker, maybe some sort of Pirate Cove Crypto hypnosis bullshit hidden in a 60s chiodren show that resonates with schizos but only within Gotham and only so long as there is not a Jester Clown already on scene that all schizos can project into and blame for their dissatisfaction.

I mean, he was resurrected from the DEAD. He's not really a normal person anymore. There's no justification in muder, but there is justification in being upset at your own fate.

Nah, he'd suffer a lifetime in jail. Once in a lifetime globally controversial exceptions to fair law are not the rule, they are exceptions. 99.99999999% of revenge killings all land you the same sentence, because that's what is right.

>Normal people who have experienced murder never wish that on someone else.

Lol.

>Normal people who have experienced murder never wish that on someone else
Please be fricking baiting you can't be that Goddamn stupid

it's almost certainly bait considering what's likely the same anon is arguing that defending yourself with anything more than your hands is weak and degenerate

Gary Plauché disagrees, Batman.

Gary Plauche never experienced suffering, only his son did. Gary was a moronic homosexual with a tiny dick looking for an excuse to get away with shooting someone for free. Which he got away with thanks to a famously derided miscarriage of justice by america’s kangaroo court.

by your childish immature cartoon logic, everyone who suffered by Jeff Doucet's death should then murder Gary and his son for causing it. There's a reason vigilante murder is illegal and immoral and only held up by absolute morons who never grew up. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

>Jeff Doucet's
Who gets sad for the death of a rapist child molester?

I don't like what you just posted anon, post your address so I can come murder you.
That's how moronic you sound. Just because you don't like someone doesn't give you any excuse to murder.

>talking to yourself about yourself
Sad

You're a moron who thinks the real world works like a comicbook

Gary Plauché disagrees, Batman.

>And in that regard, Joker's death is not worth the death of Batman. However, he really should allow someone else to kill Joker. He is vengeance, not a protector of the damned.

This. It’s a moral code he puts on himself but he shouldn’t go out of his way to save murderers, or freak out if anyone else kills them.

They’d think he’s right, they both told him it’s never ok to kill. Thomas is the main motivator Bruce has for never taking a life.
They’d look at Jason withh shame and remind Bruce it’s not his fault Jason turned out this way, Jason was just too pampered and coddled to grow up and get over his teenage edgelord phase

This begs the question. How would the Flashpoint versions of Thomas and Martha feel about the whole Jason situation if it was fully explained to both of them? Considering how their Bruce's death completely wrecked both of them mentally.

Devastated that Bruce has to endure the death of his own kid.

Jason isn't their grandchild. He's a random lush's son who sided with a murderer to help criminals in Gotham commit felonies and thefts like the one that KILLED THE WAYNES without any consequences.
Their REAL grandchild is Damian, and he stayed loyal to Bruce. That cuck coward Jason betrayed him while only Damian stood by his side.

Damian was brainwashed and forced into it from brith. Jason was the exact opposite: taught to do good but chose evil out of pure butthurt.

>taught to do good
By who? His addict mother who overdosed when he was 10 and his dad who died in prison? The freak who pick up orphans to get emotional support from child soldiers? He wasn't taught to do good but he did it anyway and died as a result.

This. Damian can be forgiven for being indoctrinated. Damian can be redeemed. Jason chose to do evil himself.

>Damian can be forgiven for being indoctrinated.
Not really. So far he turns evil whenever daddy isn't breathing down his neck.

Bruce officially kicked Jason out of the Batfamily at the end of Outlaws

>at the end of Outlaws
What you posted is part 1 ending out of 3, damigay. They make up like 3 issues later because Jason not allowed to hold a grudge against Batman.

You mean he was taught to be a child soldier. There was no literally no reason for Bruce to make Jason into Robin. He didn't it want it like Dick or Tim did. He had no burning motivation to avenge anyone or to help Batman. Bruce then acted surprised when the child he taught advanced skills to ran away to find his bio mother.

this is why I don't read DC. reading about these so called heroes who are willing to let a dangerous person go free would be moral suicide. the best thing that ever happened to DC is kill the justice league.

Let's be fair. 616 Peter is just as bad if not worse. At least Bruce has never made a deal with the devil.

I don't believe Peter has ever slit a family member's throat to save a villain.

Nice fanfic, Dami schizo. I still don't know why you think anyone would care about what Batman's local enabler and manservant thinks or says. Is he some kind of authority figure for you?

> Alfred was fighting against catwoman in GW
Fancy that. I hope you liked that moment where Bruce runned away and abandoned Damian the second he too lost his fight against the "lgbt gays".
>Batman and his “enabler” are the heroes
Alfred is too dead and Bruce is too busy losing his marble and being the source of 90% of his and everyone's problem by creating failsafe and zurr-something to be a hero for me. You do you moron, but the meteor was the only thing worth rooting for.

>Bruce wasn't "crazy" for brainwashing

It isn't genocide, though, just indiscriminate killing.

>It isn't genocide, though, just indiscriminate killing.
Those are one hell of a sentence and defence. Batgays are really on another level.

>betrayed him for catdyke to help murderers and thieves
Nope. They're ungrateful spoiled brats who were never really his sons and have no respect for him. Damian is his true heir.

>Bruce canonically beats his kids
This is not the win you think it is.

Bruce is just a really shitty father and friend. It’s no wonder he’s alone in the future.

>Dick
Saw another kid go through what he did and asked him to join his crusade because he wished he had someone to guide him when he did the same.

>Babs
Was originally a grown woman, but kept getting de-aged

>Jason
Saw a troubled kid who could do good with the right discipline

>Tim
Literally forced upon him because not having partner was making Bruce a loose cannon

>Cass
She was a genuine trained killer and it was better to keep her on payroll than let her get scooped by someone else

>Steph
Literally to punish Tim for not being his partner 24/7

>Damien
Same as Cass, but even worse because he's his actual son

>Duke and the other add-ons since nu52
NOBODY GETS TO BE INSPIRED BY THE BATFAMILY WITHOUT OFFICIAL BAT-PERMISSION. YOU'RE ENLISTED NOW, FRICKER

Honestly I think even younger DCAU Bruce would be disgusted at current Comics Bruce, not just Old Man Beyond Bruce.

Summed up more perfectly than I could ever even hope. Excellent work.

THAT'S IT!?
That's supposed to be better?
Frick you you got my hopes up.
>lol shit happens , haha potato
Did Gen Xers think this was good writing? It's fricking garbage

it's fricking awful writing.

>Bruce is crazy!
If the hallucination is lucid and brings up reasonable points, it is degrading to narratively answer it with "lol, lmao"

So glad someone got that.

Well that was a stupid ending to that discussion.

Also, I recall an issue where a cop dresses as Batman to lure and kill the Joker and he actually manages to nearly off him. Does anyone else remember, or is it just me?

When you think about it, Dick and Jason are both two ways that victims of child molestation can turn out behavior-wise. Dick became hypersexualized as an adult. Jason developed severe anger issues which on top of getting killed by the Joker and not even getting avenged, was probably a major contributing factor to his insanity Pre-Flashpoint.

Do you think Bruce molested Tim as well? Tim didn't even live in the same house as Bruce at first. Would he have been too old for Bruce by the time he came to live at the Manor? What about Damian? Would Bruce molest his own biological son?

Oooooh, good point.

I bet the only Robins that Bruce hasn't molested were Stephanie (already used goods before they met) and Damian (Talia would castrate him and ruin his life if she found out).

Carrie would entirely depend on if DKR Batman can still get an erection.

Cass would be able to read his intentions through his body language. So either she would fight like Hell against it or she is one of the few who enjoys it. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Maybe this is one of those universes where Babs fricked/is fricking Bruce and since she was crippled at the time, she encouraged and trained Cass to be Bruce's bawd?

I dunno about Duke.

I like the idea that Joker and Jason are the only ones who realize how fricked up this entire Batfamily situation is, but no one believes them when they try to tell others the truth.

The Joker finds it hilarious. Jason swings between hating it all or just being tsun about it.

that Beyond zur is from Earth 12 where the beyond comics are now

Nope. Now that Batkek effectively killed the notion of "Preptime Batman is super cool", they're basically stuck with having to admit that a rich man running around in a bat costume might be a little bonkers.

When it's done right, it makes a much stronger case for why Bruce can be so compassionate and empathetic towards the rogues and why he does still hold out the hope that they can be healed at Arkham (maybe not Joker, but certainly for the ones like Riddler/Two-Face/etc.). He sees them as dark mirrors who have gone farther off the edge than he has but still deserve the chance to find their way back. If he's just a rich furry with a death wish who gets his kicks beating on mental patients, all that nuance is lost.