I can't speak for Jason or Donna, but Kyle really didn't find his peak until he the GLC was reunited and he had Hal, Guy and John to work with. that being said, Kyle will inevitably succeed Hal and Hal is cool with that.
The golden age of GL happened because of the reintroduction of the corps and the greatly expanded lore. Hal being brought back was just a small part of it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Hal being brought back was just a small part of it.
This is like saying John Stewart could have filled in the role of Hal Jordan during that run but we know it ain't true and beware My Power is proof of that.
>Kyle succeeded Hal in the 90s iirc but Halgays b***he
I'm not going to say Kyle was entirely unpopular but he wasn't Wally. There were a lot of pissed off Halgays and he never truly caught on. Winnick''s run was also pure garbage and turned away a lot of fans.
>Winnick''s run was also pure garbage and turned away a lot of fans
That was probably the bigger problem. Had Kyle gotten a run like Waid's Flash then people would've gotten over Hal.
Would Hal turning into a villain gone down better if, instead of Emerald Twilight taking place in just three issues, it had been allowed to be a much longer, slower storyline like originally intended?
I don't think it would have worked because the premise of Emerald Twilight was intended to be a shock to the system in order to draw up more sales like how Knightfall and Death of Superman did. What you're asking for is equilvent of what Denny O'Neil did with Knightfall and DC would have never allowed such time and effort to be directed for a run that was losing them money. Doing a Secret Origins rewrite of Emerald Twilight would probably work out much better because there was material to work with in 1994.
>If he had been unpopular they have reinstated Hal earlier.
DC is notorious for doubling down on terrible mistakes anon. The fact that they even took a chance on Geoff's GL is a surprise.
Even towards the end of his run Kyle was selling in the 30k-40k range, which put him alongside Nightwing, Birds of Prey, and Detective Comics.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Rebirth was the jolt the series needed.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, no one is saying that Rebirth didn't reinvigorate the franchise but it's disingenuous to say that Kyle was unpopular considering his sales were comparable to the rest of DC's b-tier. Though it is a bit of an issue to do direct comparisons between different market eras.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I didn't even know Far Sector was a DC comic till GLv6 came out and they had a teen lantern and a black woman I'd never seen before.
They really fricked up marketing.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Far Sector is a case of "readers didn't buy it, critics adored it." I love how Jo Mullein has a fat ass but that's about it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
She's got a strong aesthetic, at least. A character can ride a long way on that alone. She just needs a really good story to put her on the map.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>She just needs a really good story to put her on the map.
Far Sector is as good as you'll get but again no marketing. Stay fricking as far as you can from Thorne attempt of her and the whole of GL
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Far Sector is as good as you'll get but again no marketing.
Far Sector didn't even feel like a GL story. It was more the writer creating some dumb planet with a silly premise. Jo's design is the only thing saving it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Far Sector didn't even feel like a GL story
It did feel like one from the 80s though. >It was more the writer creating some dumb planet with a silly premise
Aka scifi fiction.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Stay fricking as far as you can from Thorne attempt of her and the whole of GL
Need more Hal and Jo adventures.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Far Sector is as good as you'll get
so not good at all?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Kyle was getting in the way of Didio's dream, it was bronze age, with more blood
Just Warrior Guy, Darkstar John, Donna/Darkstar Donna, and that b***h Jade from what I could remember.
I wish they'd revisit the people he first tried to remake the Corps with.
John Stewart was literally created because Denny O'Neil and Neil Adams were two honky motherfrickers who thought GL was too white. He is quite literally the Miles Morales of the GLC.
Basically nothing. Even her fans admit that she was at her best with the outlaws than she is currently with WW. At least they are the only ones don't act like Jason is a "black hole" like some certain fans.
I find it hilarious how some of them suddenly pretend to care about Rose and make up some pathetic scenario about how she was totally in relationship with every Robin before Jason.
She wasn't, but she definitely tried with Dick and Tim before Jason.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Rose from before and Rose now is pretty much a different character. She doesn't even know Tim nor her history with the Titans is acknowledged and she only briefly trained with Dick.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Well, everything is canon now, so the same should be the case with her history with the Titans.
5 months ago
Anonymous
"Everything is canon" pretty much mean writers can pick and choose whatever they want for their stories, not that everything is literally canon, smarty.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I know, but it's only a matter of time until someone decides to acknowledge Rose's time as a Titan, which was technically already done in Death Metal anyway.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe, but they certainly won't acknowledge "the other thing".
5 months ago
Anonymous
You'd be surprised what things DC writers will decide to acknowledge and which to ignore.
Yes, I'm still mad they keep bringing up Identity Crisis and Cry for Justice.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Tim is gay nowadays (and it won't be long before they pretend that he always was). I highly doubt that they would acknowledge that when they are currently pushing for Jason/Rose. Still, it's DC and it's always better to not have expectations.
Anyway, the point is that Rose isn't "used goods" like some certain fanboys pretend and she hardly even know Dick and Tim these days.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Its quite tiring having to debunk this talking point over and over. Tim Drake is bisexual and currently in a relationship with another male named Bernard (what a shitty name btw). I'm sorry that you think bisexual people have to suck and frick men and women every other panel or else they're gay. You actually have that in common with the rainbow mafia who like to shit on bi people if they're with the opposite sex. Tim getting his wiener sucked by Bernard does not mean he's suddenly thinking every sexy girl he sees is uggo and doesn't excite him. Please respond with cope. I know (you) will.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Tim Drake is bisexual
It's funny that you people pretend there's a difference. If a "man" is allowing himself to be with another "man", he is gay.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yes thank you for providing me with the cope I requested.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>cope
The only one coping between us is you. No matter how many labels the rainbow crowd like to call themselves, truth speak louder.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Heterosexual readers don't relate to characters like that, I don't know what to tell you.
I didn't read but keep providing me with cope to bump this thread. I know your fragile sexuality can't handle the fact bisexual people exist. Like I said in my original post, you lot have a lot in common with the LGTQ+ mafia on that front.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Heterosexual readers don't relate to characters like that, I don't know what to tell you.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>the point is that Rose isn't "used goods" like some certain fanboys pretend and she hardly even know Dick and Tim these days.
Well, I agree and disagree.
Yes, Rose is most definitely not "used goods", specially considering that Dick and Tim rejected her advances, and the recent implications that she's a virgin.
But also, while current DC prefers to have her with Jason, she's had history with all the other Robins, that has actually happened, not necessarily in a romantic way, but she has definitely met them all at least.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>she's had history with all the other Robins, that has actually happened, not necessarily in a romantic way, but she has definitely met them all at least
She is certainly doesn't act like she knows any of them personally besides Jason and even Damian who think he is "her friend" she doesn't actually acknowledge him as friend. I'm not sure why you are trying to push that part of her history that basically add nothing to her character besides serving self-insert characters so coomers can feel better about themselves.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>even Damian who think he is "her friend" she doesn't actually acknowledge him as friend.
She doesn't? She kinda was the one who reached out to him in his 2021 book, I'm not saying they're the closest besties, but they're at least friendly to each other. >I'm not sure why you are trying to push that part of her history that basically add nothing to her character besides serving self-insert characters so coomers can feel better about themselves.
I just don't mind remembering those old stories, I wouldn't say I'm pushing it, but whatever.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Friendly, but not friends. She basically admitted so recently.
And you can acknowledge her history with Titans without acknowledging the way they cheapen her to props up Tim and Dick.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>She basically admitted so recently.
What issue?
5 months ago
Anonymous
In GW. She said that Jason is her only friend.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Fair enough, my best guess is that Jason is more of a contemporary for her, while Damian is closer to an annoying little brother.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Her and Jason are around the same age.
5 months ago
Anonymous
She should be a bit younger than Tim, but Jason is younger than people think he is(Around cass' age)
5 months ago
Anonymous
Jason was originally only 1/2 years older than Tim
5 months ago
Anonymous
Jason originally died at 13 and met Batman at 9. They draw him looking older so it won't reflect badly on them when they tortured him (it still blow up in their faces).
5 months ago
Anonymous
I always find it ironic how they are so scared of aging up Bruce, Dick and Tim (and even Damian who they still draw like he is 10 instead of 15), but they insist in aging Jason up and drawing him like he is near 40. It just doesn't make sense.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Because it will make Batman look bad if they acknowledged that Jason is actually pretty young. Also, some artists just like Jim's design of him in HUSH so they keep using it as reference.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Most of Jason's appearance have him looking in his 20s. Since size is often used as shorthand for age differences he visually "reads" as older because a lot of artists draw him more muscled and taller than Dick. In terms of real world height and ages Dick and Jason are fine, Tim's noticeably short, and Damian should be seeing an endocrinologist for his very obvious and severe growth disorder.
5 months ago
Anonymous
The problem is the way they draw his face, not them making him big. They makes him sometimes (a lot of times) looks like he is Bruce's age.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>looks like he is Bruce's age
They actually draw Bruce looking younger than him. They are pretty concerned about him looking old.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's not just the height, it's the square cut jaw, the way guys like Matt Wagner and Doug Mahnke drew him from the start of his Red Hood era with wrinkles and even his hair being shorter and less loose and wild than how Tim and Dick are usually drawn.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>She should be a bit younger than Tim
Maybe, but I don't think that's how DC sees her anymore, and that's a good thing!
5 months ago
Anonymous
No, she's the same age as Steph, meaning she's about one year older than Tim. Remember she was 14 years old in 1992, while Tim was still 13.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Fair enough, my best guess is that Jason is more of a contemporary for her, while Damian is closer to an annoying little brother.
Damian is too terrible for anyone to like him besides Jon who has no personality anyway
5 months ago
Anonymous
Damian has friends, whether he likes it or not.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Which friends? The dumb team he quickly abandoned.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Colin, Maya, Maps, Flatline, obviously Jon and others, it's just that DC would rather ignore most of them.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Colin isn't a thing since Flashpoint, she is clearly forgotten, spending a single day together and never saw each other again doesn't make them "friends", will see how long this will this last, already acknowledged, "others" totally not vogue.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>spending a single day together and never saw each other again doesn't make them "friends"
Damian and Maps actually met multiple times, both in and out of costume, but whatever.
Also what makes someone a "friend" varies from person to person, someone might consider everyone they meet a friend, and others might only consider someone a friend after spending their whole lives together, it's a vague term, but I think being friendly to each other more often than not is usually enough. >will see how long this will this last
I for one don't expect it to last lol, she really feels to me like she's bound to break his heart in more than one way.
Damian is written with friends from time to time, but the writers ignore them for one reason or another, like that time when they were setting him up as a villain for 5G.
5 months ago
Anonymous
They easily could've had Damian permanently transfer to Gotham Academy for his solo title so that he'd have a ready made supporting cast.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Just because a character is forgotten doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
5 months ago
Anonymous
In GW. She said that Jason is her only friend.
Has Rose consistently admitted that anyone else is her friend ever since she became an eyepatch badgirl? Since then she's had a "too cool for school" vibe. Not tsundere but... wannabe lone wolf who won't admit she has friends.
She doesn't acknowledge her friends (even though they're her friends), just as she doesn't acknowledge Jason as her boyfriend (even though he is). It takes a whole-ass event comic to force her to admit she loves her scumbag dad under threat of cosmic annihilation.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>just as she doesn't acknowledge Jason as her boyfriend
That has less to do with her and more to do with Jason not currently being in a stable state of mind. She certainly seems to love since she was willing to risk her life for him.
And who are her friends exactly? It used to be Eddie and he hasn't been a thing in a pretty long time.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Eddie
Weirdly enough, Eddie was also Jason's friend way back when he was still Robin and he only used a suit instead of being an actual demon.
They should definitely bring him back.
5 months ago
Anonymous
They actually talked bad about him in-universe? What?
5 months ago
Anonymous
The Titans certainly did despite the fact he actually helped them.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>highly doubt that they would acknowledge that when they are currently pushing for Jason/Rose.
This shit will never not be cringe.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Jason/Rose has been hinted since pre-reboot.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, she actually flirted him before and they were hinted in the outlaws too. It was always a matter of time before they became a thing.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Identity Crisis and Cry for Justice
They are only acknowledging some parts of them, not everything that happened in them. Though, I definitely would prefer if they didn't.
It's a dickgays thing. They seethe whenever a character who has some history with Dick starts developping an history with Jason. They've been larping as Roygays to pretend the character was in a good place before N52 since then. They'll forget about Rose as soon as she's not standing next to another Robin.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Jason being a smaller version of Dick makes a lot of him leftover from Dick.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Jason being a smaller version of Dick
If only that was true. My guy is stuck being draw like a 40 yo man while Nightwing is draw like a frickboy bottom.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This is normal, the artists, nor the publisher, don't take much care with secondary characters.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's only "normal" by DC or marvel standards. A moronic business model that is dying at home.
>At least they are the only ones don't act like Jason is a "black hole" like some certain fans
I remember someone blaming Jason for why Roy end being killed
Blah blah Roy got killed because he was hanging out with Jason! Never mind the fact that he was hanging out with the Titans and his history with the outlaws was barely until they decided to kill him, but I guess blaming Jason easier than admitting that Titans as franchise is a failure.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>but I guess blaming Jason easier than admitting that Titans as franchise is a failure.
When will people realize that the Titans stopped being good after Perez left?
>Even her fans admit that she was at her best with the outlaws than she is currently with WW
Debatable. I'll take her not showing up then her getting assimilated into the cancer that is the Batfamily.
Lmao, she was literally treated better in a bat book than in wonder book.
5 months ago
Anonymous
She could only be a prop to Jason as her amazon gf.
You probably won't even deny that, to you that's a positive but to me it's tantamount to character death.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, because being turned into full lesbian and inferior WW is so much better. Besides, I know they you are neither Artemis fan nor WW fan. So, nice try, dick fan.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Yeah, because being turned into full lesbian and inferior WW is so much better
Better that then a fourth string Batfamily member.
5 months ago
Anonymous
All DC women should be lesbians if it means staying away from Batman and his minions
5 months ago
Anonymous
>All DC women should be lesbians
Don't worry. Most of them already are. I guess they know their audience.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>She could only be a prop to Jason as her amazon gf.
And the opposite is also true if you go by the rhato webtoon. I will never understand the obssession for romance in capes. It's literaly cancer since it twist one if not both characters involved.
11 out of 10 fans of WW and adjacent prefer to see the characters on the fridge rather than seeing her serving as a crutch for some Batboy.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yes because you can bring a character back from the dead but there's no going back once the Batman fandom decides a character belongs to them.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Just see what this trend became, while they were talking about GL or Donna, everything was fine, then the fanboys of Jason and other members of Batfam arrived...
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah the guy who's describing them as a literal cancer is clearly a huge fan.
Yes. Jason's history with Donna was actually acknowledged and their adventures was actually fun and not filled with "fluff" like current DC.
The golden age of GL happened because of the reintroduction of the corps and the greatly expanded lore. Hal being brought back was just a small part of it.
>Hal being brought back was just a small part of it
Keep telling yourself that, buddy.
DC is trying so hard to achieve the success WFA pulled and are falling miserably. I'm getting seriously sick of the way they keep writing Bruce and Dick together.
>Oh boy, you so gonna love beast world >Batman "I'm sorry, so sorry I can't be there besides you" >a grown man dick is so helpless that he needs his daddy to hold his hand during his first major event
Can someone tell me again why would anyone defend Taylor's run?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Is this actual line? What's the heck going on with DC?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, from beast world 2. Batman spent his last moment before turning into a wolf begging Dick's forgiveness because he can't be there for him to hold his hand. Dick is apparently 2 years old instead of 20 something.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Kek, I almost feel sorry for dick fans.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Don't. I'm more angry at how Batman is being treated lately when he shares a page with Dick or Damian.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Literally who is the target audience for this?
5 months ago
Anonymous
People who take the family in the Batfamily too serious so they literally view Batman as their dad.
>Keep telling yourself that, buddy.
I will cause it's true. Hal Jordan had been dead for a decade by the time GL Rebirth came out. You really think it was HEAT gays propping up those sales? Most of the fans were first time GL readers who decided to give it a try after hearing there was gonna be a big changeup in the status quo.
>Hal being brought back was just a small part of it.
This is like saying John Stewart could have filled in the role of Hal Jordan during that run but we know it ain't true and Beware My Power is proof of that.
I didn't watch Beware My Power so I can't say for certain, but I'd be willing to bet that it's poor sales has more to do with it being shit than who it's starring. Normalgays are more familiar with Jon than Kyle anyway thanks to JLU.
>You really think it was HEAT gays propping up those sales?
That's the best thing about Hal returning, it brought in new readers and saved the Green Lantern comics.
I'm honestly glad that he never got a titan team of his own. I remember disliking the tt show as a child and thinking it was too silly. Even now, I still dislike the concept.
Jason's short career but at a pivotal moment in DC's history so he got to run into a lot of people; which leads to people those people know(met Donna who briefly dated Kyle). It means a writer who cares can mine a lot of material.
What sucks is that it took a decade for Kyle to actually get some good plot. For much of the 90s, his best stories were those involving Hal because there was chemistry. And like how some of the other posters have mentioned, his supporting cast wasn't good. His most memorable plot was probably the one involving his gay roommate who wanted to keep him to himself (fricking Winnick).
>Batman
Yes. Jason's the best. >Wonder Woman
Absolutely not. Nobody cares about Donna. >Hal Jordan
Absolutely not. People even like the fat ass latina Lantern chick more than Kyle.
All of these characters are belovedby their fanbases for pure obssesive reasons. They have no pivotal runs or even stories, just a couple of mediocre-to-good stories. Kyle had a really long series, yet it is never recommended to anyone because it was nothing mind-blowing. Compare it to Bruce, Diana or Hal, who constantly get recommended to casual readers because they have both mayor storylines, critically acclaimed stories and GN and long runs.
This isn't to say these characters are bad (they aren't), but they haven't surpassed their mentors
>Compare it to Bruce, Diana or Hal, who constantly get recommended to casual readers because they have both mayor storylines, critically acclaimed stories and GN and long runs.
Diana has a critically acclaimed storyline/arcs/run?
Rucka, Azzarello, Golden Age, Perez
All long runs that while controversial have lots of fans and get recommended. Old readers LOVE Perez, casuals love Azzarello. Compare that to Donna, who is most remembered for being in the Titans or alongside Diana
Donna still has a decent size fanbase of people who lived the 80's Titans stuff and have spending money. Her being downplayed in the 2000's and her origin being exaggerated on how confusing it is scared a lot of new fans from those eras away.
I wonder if Diana often kidnaps young girls to Paradise Island
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'd rather the Amazons get new numbers like that, taking in lost and wayward children, than shit like "Well they take in sailors then murder them and then sell off the male children to slavery. That just sounds try-hard. Spiriting away lost girls sounds whimsical at least.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I am now going to writer a genderbent Peter Pan DC fic, thanks anon. Frick.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>That just sounds try-hard
How is it try-hard? It’s on-brand with the Greek myths.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Wonder Woman took her because she was an orphan and was going to end up in the system. You should read Who Is Donna Troy, it's one of the best comic issues DC ever published.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I figured that was the case anon I doubt Diana would actually kidnap a child outside of needing to keep them safe from someone trying to hurt them.
>Also she should've been on the team in S1 of YJ
Nah. It should been have Cassie. Conner could have been her bf instead of him getting groomed by the annoying rapist martian b***h.
She would have been on the team if not for the complicated legal issues around all the Wonder Woman properties. Weissman said his earliest plans included her, but she was removed almost immediately. They only got clearance late in S1 production.
Who owns the right to have Donna in an animated show and why haven't they used her?
Snubbed from TT03. Snubbed from YJ. Jesus Christ no wonder nobody knows who the frick she is.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's a licensing issue with the WMM estate. It's always an issue. >Paul Dini on Wonder Woman (circa 2000): “There’s kind of a licensing problem: if we wanted to do Wonder Woman as a series, we could do that, [but] if it was a guest-shot, it was a little more problematic. I don’t really understand it—it just turned out to be easier all the way around [to use Big Barda in the Batman Beyond episode 'The Call'...] we love Wonder Woman—Bruce [Timm] did that great design of her, which is now a maquette at the Warner Bros. store. At some point, we’ll do Wonder Woman…we just need to fight that battle when we get to it..”
5 months ago
Anonymous
Is it a similar situation as with Black Lightning or..?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Don't ask me, I don't know. >Myth #6: "Greg stated that the plan from day one was to use Donna in Season One and Cassie in Season Two." >This is more of a half-truth. EARLY, early on, Donna was one of our leading candidates for Season One. This was before we had even narrowed things down very much. And BEFORE any true decisions were made, we were informed by our DC Liasons that both Wonder Girls were off-limits for legal reasons that were never explained to us. (So don't ask me.) So neither Wonder Girl was seriously considered. Then Geoff Johns came aboard and made both Wonder Girls available. Unfortunately, by that time, it was flat out too late to include Donna. So we decided we'd put Cassie in Season Two. And have Donna be one of the characters who joined and left the Team during the timeskip, and cameo her in Season Two. Unfortunately, for reasons reported fairly accurately from ASK GREG LIVE, we were unable to cameo either Troia or Mary at Rocket's bridal shower because there just wasn't time for Phil Bourassa to design FOUR new characters, i.e. the two girls in both their civilian and super-hero costumes. Had they appeared in "Satisfaction", then they would have also had cameos in "Endgame", since their designs would already have been completed. But since they didn't appear in the earlier episode, we weren't able to get them at all. This is a sadness to me. But there are realities of production that we're all subject to.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Don't ask me, I don't know. >Myth #6: "Greg stated that the plan from day one was to use Donna in Season One and Cassie in Season Two." >This is more of a half-truth. EARLY, early on, Donna was one of our leading candidates for Season One. This was before we had even narrowed things down very much. And BEFORE any true decisions were made, we were informed by our DC Liasons that both Wonder Girls were off-limits for legal reasons that were never explained to us. (So don't ask me.) So neither Wonder Girl was seriously considered. Then Geoff Johns came aboard and made both Wonder Girls available. Unfortunately, by that time, it was flat out too late to include Donna. So we decided we'd put Cassie in Season Two. And have Donna be one of the characters who joined and left the Team during the timeskip, and cameo her in Season Two. Unfortunately, for reasons reported fairly accurately from ASK GREG LIVE, we were unable to cameo either Troia or Mary at Rocket's bridal shower because there just wasn't time for Phil Bourassa to design FOUR new characters, i.e. the two girls in both their civilian and super-hero costumes. Had they appeared in "Satisfaction", then they would have also had cameos in "Endgame", since their designs would already have been completed. But since they didn't appear in the earlier episode, we weren't able to get them at all. This is a sadness to me. But there are realities of production that we're all subject to.
There was that failed WW Pilot around then that might've been an issue. The WW rights have a lot of rumors and mystery(like the idea that she needs to be in one book a month to keep the publishing rights; that's been long gone for two decades or so now)
5 months ago
Anonymous
So is that why there hasn't been a Wonder Woman animated series? I think it could work.
The DCAU crew wanted to use Hal Jordan but were told to use Kyle instead because he was the current GL at the time. So they made him Hal in everything but name. Same deal with DCAU Tim who's really Jason in all but name.
Certainly not in the way Taylor wrote it. No self-respected man would hug his "dad" the way Dick did it nor I like the way he is even calling him "dad".
Well, if I were given a choice between getting rid of Tumblr or Reddit, I will choose the latter without hesitation. Tumblr is still bad, though (every social media platform if we are beings honest)
Yes, I can't post pictures right now, but Bruce said multiple times before that Dick isn't his son and Dick himself said that Bruce didn't act as parent nor wanted to be a one to him. This is actually more interesting dynamic than whatever DC doing right now.
Donna has been damaged goods ever since Wolfman had his OC pork her and Jason hasn't been good since his movie, and that's because Batgay's editors won't ever EVER let him upstage Batman despite how much the vast majority of readers agree that Batman is a massive cuck for letting Joker get away with everything.
Donna's been fricked over ever since her creation because she's explicitly a TT character linked to WW rather than a WW character used in TT. Imagine you were writing Batman in the 60s. One day you run into Bob Haney on the way to the shitter and he informs you that he's added that Robin character from your backups to a sidekick team book they're calling Teen Titans. You inform him that those backups are about a seven year old Bruce Wayne solving mysteries around the neighborhood in a Halloween costume. Three months later you find out that according to editorial Batman has had a young sidekick this whole time as of this month's publication of Teen Titans #1. Oh, and you can't use the character without running everything by TT's editor because they have full control over it. That's basically Donna's origin in a nutshell.
Even with Donna now shared under WW's editorial, most writers aren't going to want to use her because she comes with decades of history outside WW, decades of baggage that have made her something of a joke among writers and fans for bad writing, and she's a shared character. At the end of the day, why use Donna when WW has a bunch of cast members that don't have her issues?
Kyle's the only controversial one.
[...] >pic
I find it funny that people shit on Titansgays for liking a highly popular and well-regarded adaptation over the comic version - whose own fans freely admit it's been varying flavors of hot garbage for 40 years running.
>a highly popular and well-regarded adaptation over the comic version
TT'03 is a shitty bastardization of the comics and none of the punch because the characters are reduced to basic tropes.
>Batgay's editors won't ever EVER let him upstage Batman despite how much the vast majority of readers agree that Batman is a massive cuck for letting Joker get away with everything >Why won't Dc undermine their best seller for the their selling batfam member!!?
jasongay...
I'm not a GL guy and outside of Geoff's run I barely know anything about lanterns but I've always liked Kyle more, mostly because of how creative his constructs were. would've loved it if Hals constructs were just as cool.
Yeah, I actually found myself enjoying most of Hal and Pals, but it wasn't exactly consistent.
[...] >That page is from Vendettis run though
Is it? I think it's actually from Green Lanterns, from the story where Simon and Jess get trained by Kyle and Guy.
>Yeah, I actually found myself enjoying most of Hal and Pals, but it wasn't exactly consistent.
tbf it seemed like Venditti was setting up a bunch of stuff before the book got canned - evil star lanterns for one. I think he implied somewhere that she had gotten possessed by parallax.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Lmao. Cope about what?
Batman's alleged status as a top seller.
>That page is from Vendettis run though
that's because I googled "Kyle Rayner constructs" and found this pic cool, all I know about Kyle is coming from his appearances in JLA comicbooks.
Honestly Kyle is mostly the Wasted Potential Lantern. His villains are all shit and his job is very underutilized. He should in theory be the "not that strong, but most creative Green Lantern", but since capeshit tends to be mostly power level homosexualry or "acktyually I had come prepared with the perfect silver bullet for you and was just letting you beat me for reasons", it never comes up.
His relationships are also bad. His most important relationship is probably being Jade's boyfriend, but Jade's supporting cast (Golden Age hero dad, Golden Age supervillain mom with split personality, angsty gay brother that is a portal to evil dimension with split personality, the fricking JSA and their kids), is waaaay more interesting than Kyle so when they are together I always want to know more about what Jade is up to.
His dynamics with the Justice League were fine as the younger more inexperienced hero, but now that he is no longer with them or that inexperienced, and they have Hal to call when they need a GL he has literally no relationship with any of them. At least Guy Gardner has his hothead personality and vegana lantern has a vegana. And his dynamics with most of the other corps are also lacking because they were dead for most of his run.
Honestly think next reboot they should de-age him so he is 16-17 when he gets the ring and put him in the Teen Titans.
I mean, he is in the boat of characters nobody knows what to do with. Which has been true for Donna since forever, and just sucks for Wally since Flashpoint (and the Flash side of the DCU in general).
And yeah, you could put him in the Teen Titans in the current continuity, but it seems like a downgrade for someone who started out in the Justice League and has wielded Cosmic-level powers multiple times before. I guess that is why they keep him as a secret weapon of the Guardians or a powerful member of the GLC.
>I mean, he is in the boat of characters nobody knows what to do with.
That too, but I meant in the generational sense, he's like Dick, Wally, Roy, etc. >And yeah, you could put him in the Teen Titans in the current continuity, but it seems like a downgrade for someone who started out in the Justice League and has wielded Cosmic-level powers multiple times before.
Maybe, but you could say the same about Wally, he's been in the JL and the Titans, and with the Titans as the only big team right now, it's not really a downgrade (in-universe at least), and Kyle has been part of the Titans before anyways.
I mean, it is technically a downgrade, but it really shouldn't be, the Titans as an adult team should be treated as a big time team and not a bunch of young adults who peaked in high school.
>His most important relationship is probably being Jade's boyfriend
I'd say his most important one was with Soranik until Venditti ruined it for no reason.
Yeah, I actually found myself enjoying most of Hal and Pals, but it wasn't exactly consistent.
>bait or moronation
[...]
That page is from Vendettis run though
>That page is from Vendettis run though
Is it? I think it's actually from Green Lanterns, from the story where Simon and Jess get trained by Kyle and Guy.
>Honestly think next reboot they should de-age him so he is 16-17 when he gets the ring and put him in the Teen Titans.
I thought this was a good angle too when I was like 12 and making my "own DCU." Made Kyle a member of Dick's generation and had him start off as a rookie Lantern.
Jason needs to get his stupid helmet back.
Donna needs a new name, preferably one that doesn't mean prostitute.
Kyle is soon getting a new story by Ron Marz, so that's cool I guess.
The only replacement I've ever really gotten attached to is Wally West, im indifferent to other ones but Kyle and Miles really aren't that different with the powers and asspulls they shit out, I mean not to say Wally doesn't get favoritism from the writers buuuuut idk I just feel like he earns it with all the emotions he went through
>Tim getting his wiener sucked by Bernard does not mean he's suddenly thinking every sexy girl he sees is uggo and doesn't excite him.
The fact that Tim is open to sucking dick is what throws off the male readers because they can't comprehend/relate to it. Tim could have a cool scene but it will always be undone because they'll always shove in Bernard/Tim's newfound love of penis. The LGBT will never be cool unless they play it straight and make them gay as frick. Tim is a lost cause so lets return to Kyle Rayner.
My gripe with DC now is after they open up the omniverse and even world is I 1 space.
Why isn't there alternative DC books that aren't 1 off where Jason kills the joker
And when he goes to jail ppl protest for his release and gets a trial where side members main family superhero have to be the jury. Can only chose 1 to representative
Like leather superboy or power girl. Wally. Knight wing
I'm not a GL guy and outside of Geoff's run I barely know anything about lanterns but I've always liked Kyle more, mostly because of how creative his constructs were. would've loved it if Hals constructs were just as cool.
The person who drew this probably draws gay stuff
The men have mommy hips and Donna looks like she's virilizing from moderate steroid use
It's great art, though.
I can't speak for Jason or Donna, but Kyle really didn't find his peak until he the GLC was reunited and he had Hal, Guy and John to work with. that being said, Kyle will inevitably succeed Hal and Hal is cool with that.
Kyle succeeded Hal in the 90s iirc but Halgays b***hed and moaned.
Then capeshitters cry about 'status quo'
>Kyle succeeded Hal in the 90s iirc but Halgays b***hed and moaned.
Nobody liked it because Hal got character assassinated and the GLC was killed.
>Nobody liked it
In reality it was probably just a dozen dedicated Halgays
>In reality it was probably just a dozen dedicated Halgays
Is that why the golden age of GL started the moment Geoff brought Hal back?
The golden age of GL happened because of the reintroduction of the corps and the greatly expanded lore. Hal being brought back was just a small part of it.
>Hal being brought back was just a small part of it.
This is like saying John Stewart could have filled in the role of Hal Jordan during that run but we know it ain't true and beware My Power is proof of that.
Well, to be fair, Hal's returns made GL a huge hit and much bigger than it was ever before (before DC messed it up as usual).
>Kyle succeeded Hal in the 90s iirc but Halgays b***he
I'm not going to say Kyle was entirely unpopular but he wasn't Wally. There were a lot of pissed off Halgays and he never truly caught on. Winnick''s run was also pure garbage and turned away a lot of fans.
>Winnick''s run was also pure garbage and turned away a lot of fans
That was probably the bigger problem. Had Kyle gotten a run like Waid's Flash then people would've gotten over Hal.
If by halgays you mean gl fans
Would Hal turning into a villain gone down better if, instead of Emerald Twilight taking place in just three issues, it had been allowed to be a much longer, slower storyline like originally intended?
I don't think it would have worked because the premise of Emerald Twilight was intended to be a shock to the system in order to draw up more sales like how Knightfall and Death of Superman did. What you're asking for is equilvent of what Denny O'Neil did with Knightfall and DC would have never allowed such time and effort to be directed for a run that was losing them money. Doing a Secret Origins rewrite of Emerald Twilight would probably work out much better because there was material to work with in 1994.
I never read GL during the 90s but Kyle worked as a perfect "rookie" character for Morrison's JLA, so I appreciate him for that.
Plenty of people liked Kyle, his run as main GL lasted ten years. If he had been unpopular they have reinstated Hal earlier.
>If he had been unpopular they have reinstated Hal earlier.
DC is notorious for doubling down on terrible mistakes anon. The fact that they even took a chance on Geoff's GL is a surprise.
Even towards the end of his run Kyle was selling in the 30k-40k range, which put him alongside Nightwing, Birds of Prey, and Detective Comics.
Rebirth was the jolt the series needed.
Sure, no one is saying that Rebirth didn't reinvigorate the franchise but it's disingenuous to say that Kyle was unpopular considering his sales were comparable to the rest of DC's b-tier. Though it is a bit of an issue to do direct comparisons between different market eras.
I didn't even know Far Sector was a DC comic till GLv6 came out and they had a teen lantern and a black woman I'd never seen before.
They really fricked up marketing.
Far Sector is a case of "readers didn't buy it, critics adored it." I love how Jo Mullein has a fat ass but that's about it.
She's got a strong aesthetic, at least. A character can ride a long way on that alone. She just needs a really good story to put her on the map.
>She just needs a really good story to put her on the map.
Far Sector is as good as you'll get but again no marketing. Stay fricking as far as you can from Thorne attempt of her and the whole of GL
>Far Sector is as good as you'll get but again no marketing.
Far Sector didn't even feel like a GL story. It was more the writer creating some dumb planet with a silly premise. Jo's design is the only thing saving it.
>Far Sector didn't even feel like a GL story
It did feel like one from the 80s though.
>It was more the writer creating some dumb planet with a silly premise
Aka scifi fiction.
>Stay fricking as far as you can from Thorne attempt of her and the whole of GL
Need more Hal and Jo adventures.
>Far Sector is as good as you'll get
so not good at all?
Kyle was getting in the way of Didio's dream, it was bronze age, with more blood
Well then be grateful that Kyle singlehandedly restarted the GLC and recreated the Guardians
Getting rid of the Corps is a shit idea, and Hal's supporting cast (Sinestro, Carol, Kilowog) is way better than Kyle's.
Kyle has a supporting cast?
Just Warrior Guy, Darkstar John, Donna/Darkstar Donna, and that b***h Jade from what I could remember.
I wish they'd revisit the people he first tried to remake the Corps with.
>Then capeshitters cry about 'status quo'
Yeah. Same with Miles taking over for Peter.
Kyle really is on par with Miles in terms of being one of the biggest poochies in the medium. Just totally forced character with no organic demand.
Enough about John Stewart, lets talk about Kyle Rayner.
John Stewart was literally created because Denny O'Neil and Neil Adams were two honky motherfrickers who thought GL was too white. He is quite literally the Miles Morales of the GLC.
Nah, John has actual fans and wasn't an editorial mandate. Granted the fans are 100% DCAU kids but it's still more than Kyles Morales.
>Granted the fans are 100% DCAU kids
That's the equivalent of being a Titangay and being proud of the fact that 99% of the fanbase is TT03shitters.
They were such a fun. Wish we could see a reunion of these three.
DC doesn't even let Jason have a reunion with Artemis and Bizarro, let alone a team he hasn't been part of in almost two decades.
Oh yeah, what's Artemis doing these days?
She shows up once in a while in Wonder Woman books.
She's a lesbian now last I heard.
Duke Thomas can fix that.
Frick off iphonec**t
Basically nothing. Even her fans admit that she was at her best with the outlaws than she is currently with WW. At least they are the only ones don't act like Jason is a "black hole" like some certain fans.
I find it hilarious how some of them suddenly pretend to care about Rose and make up some pathetic scenario about how she was totally in relationship with every Robin before Jason.
I noticed that there's a weird obsession with Rose these days and she is suddenly getting brought up a lot in Dick threads.
Some dick fanboys pretty much act like they are the jealous and insecure younger brother who is obsessed with getting their big brother's things
She wasn't, but she definitely tried with Dick and Tim before Jason.
Rose from before and Rose now is pretty much a different character. She doesn't even know Tim nor her history with the Titans is acknowledged and she only briefly trained with Dick.
Well, everything is canon now, so the same should be the case with her history with the Titans.
"Everything is canon" pretty much mean writers can pick and choose whatever they want for their stories, not that everything is literally canon, smarty.
I know, but it's only a matter of time until someone decides to acknowledge Rose's time as a Titan, which was technically already done in Death Metal anyway.
Maybe, but they certainly won't acknowledge "the other thing".
You'd be surprised what things DC writers will decide to acknowledge and which to ignore.
Yes, I'm still mad they keep bringing up Identity Crisis and Cry for Justice.
Tim is gay nowadays (and it won't be long before they pretend that he always was). I highly doubt that they would acknowledge that when they are currently pushing for Jason/Rose. Still, it's DC and it's always better to not have expectations.
Anyway, the point is that Rose isn't "used goods" like some certain fanboys pretend and she hardly even know Dick and Tim these days.
Its quite tiring having to debunk this talking point over and over. Tim Drake is bisexual and currently in a relationship with another male named Bernard (what a shitty name btw). I'm sorry that you think bisexual people have to suck and frick men and women every other panel or else they're gay. You actually have that in common with the rainbow mafia who like to shit on bi people if they're with the opposite sex. Tim getting his wiener sucked by Bernard does not mean he's suddenly thinking every sexy girl he sees is uggo and doesn't excite him. Please respond with cope. I know (you) will.
>Tim Drake is bisexual
It's funny that you people pretend there's a difference. If a "man" is allowing himself to be with another "man", he is gay.
Yes thank you for providing me with the cope I requested.
>cope
The only one coping between us is you. No matter how many labels the rainbow crowd like to call themselves, truth speak louder.
I didn't read but keep providing me with cope to bump this thread. I know your fragile sexuality can't handle the fact bisexual people exist. Like I said in my original post, you lot have a lot in common with the LGTQ+ mafia on that front.
Heterosexual readers don't relate to characters like that, I don't know what to tell you.
>the point is that Rose isn't "used goods" like some certain fanboys pretend and she hardly even know Dick and Tim these days.
Well, I agree and disagree.
Yes, Rose is most definitely not "used goods", specially considering that Dick and Tim rejected her advances, and the recent implications that she's a virgin.
But also, while current DC prefers to have her with Jason, she's had history with all the other Robins, that has actually happened, not necessarily in a romantic way, but she has definitely met them all at least.
>she's had history with all the other Robins, that has actually happened, not necessarily in a romantic way, but she has definitely met them all at least
She is certainly doesn't act like she knows any of them personally besides Jason and even Damian who think he is "her friend" she doesn't actually acknowledge him as friend. I'm not sure why you are trying to push that part of her history that basically add nothing to her character besides serving self-insert characters so coomers can feel better about themselves.
>even Damian who think he is "her friend" she doesn't actually acknowledge him as friend.
She doesn't? She kinda was the one who reached out to him in his 2021 book, I'm not saying they're the closest besties, but they're at least friendly to each other.
>I'm not sure why you are trying to push that part of her history that basically add nothing to her character besides serving self-insert characters so coomers can feel better about themselves.
I just don't mind remembering those old stories, I wouldn't say I'm pushing it, but whatever.
Friendly, but not friends. She basically admitted so recently.
And you can acknowledge her history with Titans without acknowledging the way they cheapen her to props up Tim and Dick.
>She basically admitted so recently.
What issue?
In GW. She said that Jason is her only friend.
Fair enough, my best guess is that Jason is more of a contemporary for her, while Damian is closer to an annoying little brother.
Her and Jason are around the same age.
She should be a bit younger than Tim, but Jason is younger than people think he is(Around cass' age)
Jason was originally only 1/2 years older than Tim
Jason originally died at 13 and met Batman at 9. They draw him looking older so it won't reflect badly on them when they tortured him (it still blow up in their faces).
I always find it ironic how they are so scared of aging up Bruce, Dick and Tim (and even Damian who they still draw like he is 10 instead of 15), but they insist in aging Jason up and drawing him like he is near 40. It just doesn't make sense.
Because it will make Batman look bad if they acknowledged that Jason is actually pretty young. Also, some artists just like Jim's design of him in HUSH so they keep using it as reference.
Most of Jason's appearance have him looking in his 20s. Since size is often used as shorthand for age differences he visually "reads" as older because a lot of artists draw him more muscled and taller than Dick. In terms of real world height and ages Dick and Jason are fine, Tim's noticeably short, and Damian should be seeing an endocrinologist for his very obvious and severe growth disorder.
The problem is the way they draw his face, not them making him big. They makes him sometimes (a lot of times) looks like he is Bruce's age.
>looks like he is Bruce's age
They actually draw Bruce looking younger than him. They are pretty concerned about him looking old.
It's not just the height, it's the square cut jaw, the way guys like Matt Wagner and Doug Mahnke drew him from the start of his Red Hood era with wrinkles and even his hair being shorter and less loose and wild than how Tim and Dick are usually drawn.
>She should be a bit younger than Tim
Maybe, but I don't think that's how DC sees her anymore, and that's a good thing!
No, she's the same age as Steph, meaning she's about one year older than Tim. Remember she was 14 years old in 1992, while Tim was still 13.
Damian is too terrible for anyone to like him besides Jon who has no personality anyway
Damian has friends, whether he likes it or not.
Which friends? The dumb team he quickly abandoned.
Colin, Maya, Maps, Flatline, obviously Jon and others, it's just that DC would rather ignore most of them.
Colin isn't a thing since Flashpoint, she is clearly forgotten, spending a single day together and never saw each other again doesn't make them "friends", will see how long this will this last, already acknowledged, "others" totally not vogue.
>spending a single day together and never saw each other again doesn't make them "friends"
Damian and Maps actually met multiple times, both in and out of costume, but whatever.
Also what makes someone a "friend" varies from person to person, someone might consider everyone they meet a friend, and others might only consider someone a friend after spending their whole lives together, it's a vague term, but I think being friendly to each other more often than not is usually enough.
>will see how long this will this last
I for one don't expect it to last lol, she really feels to me like she's bound to break his heart in more than one way.
Damian is written with friends from time to time, but the writers ignore them for one reason or another, like that time when they were setting him up as a villain for 5G.
They easily could've had Damian permanently transfer to Gotham Academy for his solo title so that he'd have a ready made supporting cast.
Just because a character is forgotten doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Has Rose consistently admitted that anyone else is her friend ever since she became an eyepatch badgirl? Since then she's had a "too cool for school" vibe. Not tsundere but... wannabe lone wolf who won't admit she has friends.
She doesn't acknowledge her friends (even though they're her friends), just as she doesn't acknowledge Jason as her boyfriend (even though he is). It takes a whole-ass event comic to force her to admit she loves her scumbag dad under threat of cosmic annihilation.
>just as she doesn't acknowledge Jason as her boyfriend
That has less to do with her and more to do with Jason not currently being in a stable state of mind. She certainly seems to love since she was willing to risk her life for him.
And who are her friends exactly? It used to be Eddie and he hasn't been a thing in a pretty long time.
>Eddie
Weirdly enough, Eddie was also Jason's friend way back when he was still Robin and he only used a suit instead of being an actual demon.
They should definitely bring him back.
They actually talked bad about him in-universe? What?
The Titans certainly did despite the fact he actually helped them.
>highly doubt that they would acknowledge that when they are currently pushing for Jason/Rose.
This shit will never not be cringe.
Jason/Rose has been hinted since pre-reboot.
Yeah, she actually flirted him before and they were hinted in the outlaws too. It was always a matter of time before they became a thing.
>Identity Crisis and Cry for Justice
They are only acknowledging some parts of them, not everything that happened in them. Though, I definitely would prefer if they didn't.
It's a dickgays thing. They seethe whenever a character who has some history with Dick starts developping an history with Jason. They've been larping as Roygays to pretend the character was in a good place before N52 since then. They'll forget about Rose as soon as she's not standing next to another Robin.
Jason being a smaller version of Dick makes a lot of him leftover from Dick.
>Jason being a smaller version of Dick
If only that was true. My guy is stuck being draw like a 40 yo man while Nightwing is draw like a frickboy bottom.
This is normal, the artists, nor the publisher, don't take much care with secondary characters.
It's only "normal" by DC or marvel standards. A moronic business model that is dying at home.
>At least they are the only ones don't act like Jason is a "black hole" like some certain fans
I remember someone blaming Jason for why Roy end being killed
....what? How?
Blah blah Roy got killed because he was hanging out with Jason! Never mind the fact that he was hanging out with the Titans and his history with the outlaws was barely until they decided to kill him, but I guess blaming Jason easier than admitting that Titans as franchise is a failure.
>but I guess blaming Jason easier than admitting that Titans as franchise is a failure.
When will people realize that the Titans stopped being good after Perez left?
>Even her fans admit that she was at her best with the outlaws than she is currently with WW
Debatable. I'll take her not showing up then her getting assimilated into the cancer that is the Batfamily.
Lmao, she was literally treated better in a bat book than in wonder book.
She could only be a prop to Jason as her amazon gf.
You probably won't even deny that, to you that's a positive but to me it's tantamount to character death.
Yeah, because being turned into full lesbian and inferior WW is so much better. Besides, I know they you are neither Artemis fan nor WW fan. So, nice try, dick fan.
>Yeah, because being turned into full lesbian and inferior WW is so much better
Better that then a fourth string Batfamily member.
All DC women should be lesbians if it means staying away from Batman and his minions
>All DC women should be lesbians
Don't worry. Most of them already are. I guess they know their audience.
>She could only be a prop to Jason as her amazon gf.
And the opposite is also true if you go by the rhato webtoon. I will never understand the obssession for romance in capes. It's literaly cancer since it twist one if not both characters involved.
11 out of 10 fans of WW and adjacent prefer to see the characters on the fridge rather than seeing her serving as a crutch for some Batboy.
Yes because you can bring a character back from the dead but there's no going back once the Batman fandom decides a character belongs to them.
Just see what this trend became, while they were talking about GL or Donna, everything was fine, then the fanboys of Jason and other members of Batfam arrived...
Yeah the guy who's describing them as a literal cancer is clearly a huge fan.
Last I heard she was on the run because she killed Hippolyta
Were they?
Yes. Jason's history with Donna was actually acknowledged and their adventures was actually fun and not filled with "fluff" like current DC.
>Hal being brought back was just a small part of it
Keep telling yourself that, buddy.
DC is trying so hard to achieve the success WFA pulled and are falling miserably. I'm getting seriously sick of the way they keep writing Bruce and Dick together.
>"I love you dad!"
I'm really wondering why am I still bothering with DC
That scene was seriously cringe and it's getting worse from what I have seen.
WFA is the liquid personification of tumblr-interpretations of what Batman characters are like. Its so bad.
WFA is good for a webtoon series and it self-contained. What worked for it can't work in the main universe.
>and it self-contained.
That never stops DC. They've been chasing after the DCAU audience for decades to the detriment of their readers.
>I'm getting seriously sick of the way they keep writing Bruce and Dick together
Oh boy, you so gonna love beast world. I agree, tho
>Oh boy, you so gonna love beast world
>Batman "I'm sorry, so sorry I can't be there besides you"
>a grown man dick is so helpless that he needs his daddy to hold his hand during his first major event
Can someone tell me again why would anyone defend Taylor's run?
Is this actual line? What's the heck going on with DC?
Yes, from beast world 2. Batman spent his last moment before turning into a wolf begging Dick's forgiveness because he can't be there for him to hold his hand. Dick is apparently 2 years old instead of 20 something.
Kek, I almost feel sorry for dick fans.
Don't. I'm more angry at how Batman is being treated lately when he shares a page with Dick or Damian.
Literally who is the target audience for this?
People who take the family in the Batfamily too serious so they literally view Batman as their dad.
Dick/Bruce shippers
>Keep telling yourself that, buddy.
I will cause it's true. Hal Jordan had been dead for a decade by the time GL Rebirth came out. You really think it was HEAT gays propping up those sales? Most of the fans were first time GL readers who decided to give it a try after hearing there was gonna be a big changeup in the status quo.
I didn't watch Beware My Power so I can't say for certain, but I'd be willing to bet that it's poor sales has more to do with it being shit than who it's starring. Normalgays are more familiar with Jon than Kyle anyway thanks to JLU.
>You really think it was HEAT gays propping up those sales?
That's the best thing about Hal returning, it brought in new readers and saved the Green Lantern comics.
Yeah, but they came for the novelty they stuck around for the quality.
Agreed. I actually liked them together
When you think about it, Jason has interesting team ups with different characters.
Remember when Jason teamed up with capeless Superman and tried to convince him to kill?
That's because unlike Dick or Tim, he never got exact contemporaries to hang out with, so he just kinda goes along with anyone who's around that week.
I'm honestly glad that he never got a titan team of his own. I remember disliking the tt show as a child and thinking it was too silly. Even now, I still dislike the concept.
You're so mature and cool anon.
What got you triggered?
You didn't like the TT cartoon
>triggered
I don't know what about that post says 'triggered' but it seems to have struck a nerve with you.
Jason's short career but at a pivotal moment in DC's history so he got to run into a lot of people; which leads to people those people know(met Donna who briefly dated Kyle). It means a writer who cares can mine a lot of material.
Are we really at the point where people are nostalgic for COUNTDOWN of all books? It was dogshit.
Jason's a baby both literally and figuratively.
>Jason
Constantly gets character assassinated but he's around the same level as Bruce.
>Donna
Terried
>Kyle
Irredeemable trash.
>but he's around the same level as Bruce.
reading this is a very high price for knowing how to read
What sucks is that it took a decade for Kyle to actually get some good plot. For much of the 90s, his best stories were those involving Hal because there was chemistry. And like how some of the other posters have mentioned, his supporting cast wasn't good. His most memorable plot was probably the one involving his gay roommate who wanted to keep him to himself (fricking Winnick).
>Batman
Yes. Jason's the best.
>Wonder Woman
Absolutely not. Nobody cares about Donna.
>Hal Jordan
Absolutely not. People even like the fat ass latina Lantern chick more than Kyle.
All of these characters are belovedby their fanbases for pure obssesive reasons. They have no pivotal runs or even stories, just a couple of mediocre-to-good stories. Kyle had a really long series, yet it is never recommended to anyone because it was nothing mind-blowing. Compare it to Bruce, Diana or Hal, who constantly get recommended to casual readers because they have both mayor storylines, critically acclaimed stories and GN and long runs.
This isn't to say these characters are bad (they aren't), but they haven't surpassed their mentors
>Compare it to Bruce, Diana or Hal, who constantly get recommended to casual readers because they have both mayor storylines, critically acclaimed stories and GN and long runs.
Diana has a critically acclaimed storyline/arcs/run?
Rucka, Azzarello, Golden Age, Perez
All long runs that while controversial have lots of fans and get recommended. Old readers LOVE Perez, casuals love Azzarello. Compare that to Donna, who is most remembered for being in the Titans or alongside Diana
>Donna
>has a fanbase
Since when?
Donna still has a decent size fanbase of people who lived the 80's Titans stuff and have spending money. Her being downplayed in the 2000's and her origin being exaggerated on how confusing it is scared a lot of new fans from those eras away.
What is her current backstory?
Also she should've been on the team in S1 of YJ
Donna is back to the original origin.
Wonder Woman rescued her from a burning building as a child and took her to Paradise Island.
I wonder if Diana often kidnaps young girls to Paradise Island
I'd rather the Amazons get new numbers like that, taking in lost and wayward children, than shit like "Well they take in sailors then murder them and then sell off the male children to slavery. That just sounds try-hard. Spiriting away lost girls sounds whimsical at least.
I am now going to writer a genderbent Peter Pan DC fic, thanks anon. Frick.
>That just sounds try-hard
How is it try-hard? It’s on-brand with the Greek myths.
Wonder Woman took her because she was an orphan and was going to end up in the system. You should read Who Is Donna Troy, it's one of the best comic issues DC ever published.
I figured that was the case anon I doubt Diana would actually kidnap a child outside of needing to keep them safe from someone trying to hurt them.
>Also she should've been on the team in S1 of YJ
Nah. It should been have Cassie. Conner could have been her bf instead of him getting groomed by the annoying rapist martian b***h.
Cassie is for Tim
Conner is also for Tim.
Hmm.
I see how to make this work.
>Cassie is for Tim
people liked this ship? Even YJ spedrun through it and ended up with tim and Steph getting together off screen.
I thought they were cute. Though I did like her shocked look as Tim leaves with the Batfam when Batman is like "the UN can suck my balls"
>make Tim bi
>doesn't put in him a throuple with an Aryan demi-goddess and a super-powered bara himbo
DC truly is staffed by morons
Yes.
She would have been on the team if not for the complicated legal issues around all the Wonder Woman properties. Weissman said his earliest plans included her, but she was removed almost immediately. They only got clearance late in S1 production.
Who owns the right to have Donna in an animated show and why haven't they used her?
Snubbed from TT03. Snubbed from YJ. Jesus Christ no wonder nobody knows who the frick she is.
It's a licensing issue with the WMM estate. It's always an issue.
>Paul Dini on Wonder Woman (circa 2000): “There’s kind of a licensing problem: if we wanted to do Wonder Woman as a series, we could do that, [but] if it was a guest-shot, it was a little more problematic. I don’t really understand it—it just turned out to be easier all the way around [to use Big Barda in the Batman Beyond episode 'The Call'...] we love Wonder Woman—Bruce [Timm] did that great design of her, which is now a maquette at the Warner Bros. store. At some point, we’ll do Wonder Woman…we just need to fight that battle when we get to it..”
Is it a similar situation as with Black Lightning or..?
Don't ask me, I don't know.
>Myth #6: "Greg stated that the plan from day one was to use Donna in Season One and Cassie in Season Two."
>This is more of a half-truth. EARLY, early on, Donna was one of our leading candidates for Season One. This was before we had even narrowed things down very much. And BEFORE any true decisions were made, we were informed by our DC Liasons that both Wonder Girls were off-limits for legal reasons that were never explained to us. (So don't ask me.) So neither Wonder Girl was seriously considered. Then Geoff Johns came aboard and made both Wonder Girls available. Unfortunately, by that time, it was flat out too late to include Donna. So we decided we'd put Cassie in Season Two. And have Donna be one of the characters who joined and left the Team during the timeskip, and cameo her in Season Two. Unfortunately, for reasons reported fairly accurately from ASK GREG LIVE, we were unable to cameo either Troia or Mary at Rocket's bridal shower because there just wasn't time for Phil Bourassa to design FOUR new characters, i.e. the two girls in both their civilian and super-hero costumes. Had they appeared in "Satisfaction", then they would have also had cameos in "Endgame", since their designs would already have been completed. But since they didn't appear in the earlier episode, we weren't able to get them at all. This is a sadness to me. But there are realities of production that we're all subject to.
There was that failed WW Pilot around then that might've been an issue. The WW rights have a lot of rumors and mystery(like the idea that she needs to be in one book a month to keep the publishing rights; that's been long gone for two decades or so now)
So is that why there hasn't been a Wonder Woman animated series? I think it could work.
I wish I could draw like this..
it has a really clean style I like, anyone know who's the artist?
I forgot their name, but I'm pretty sure they are a Jason fan who made a lot of fan arts of him. Jason in general has pretty good fan artists.
Artist is inkydandy Glynnis K.
She's a pro artist working on her own original stuff now, so I don't think she does commissions or Red Hood fan art for the last few years.
Kyle Rayner? In the DCAU.
Hal Jordan? Snubbed outside of one cameo.
I rest my case.
DCAU Kyle Rayner is proof that Batgays should never ever write GL characters.
Was the GL cartoon part of the DCAU or it just had a Bruce Timm look to it?
It just had the Timm look and frankly I think it'd be a mistake to try and connect the two.
Fatal Five already made the connection.
What has Hal done the last 10-20 years?
Carrying the GL's name on his back.
Being the face of the GLC and nothing else because DC didn't want to support the GL anymore.
He beat Ben 10 and that's about it.
>Blames Batman out of nowhere
This was the first time I'd ever seen a Green Lantern
I'm so sorry.
>Kyle Rayner but actually he's a discount Hal Jordan
Frick the DCAU
The DCAU crew wanted to use Hal Jordan but were told to use Kyle instead because he was the current GL at the time. So they made him Hal in everything but name. Same deal with DCAU Tim who's really Jason in all but name.
>Its cringe when an adopted son tells his adopted father he loves him
Soulless..
Certainly not in the way Taylor wrote it. No self-respected man would hug his "dad" the way Dick did it nor I like the way he is even calling him "dad".
Ironically, even Tumblr disliked this scene and mocked Dick over it.
People like to mock Tumblr, but they honestly have much better taste than Reddit
You should go back 🙂
Well, if I were given a choice between getting rid of Tumblr or Reddit, I will choose the latter without hesitation. Tumblr is still bad, though (every social media platform if we are beings honest)
I think I agree because Reddit tends to like shit that Tumblr was obsessed with first, and they spread it in ways that affect normie culture
But Tumblr is where the Kyle/Jason yaoi comes from.
Also Reddit is better for looking up cooking advice and product reviews.
Post more
How dare you have this filth on your PC.
I'm sorry your father never came home after going to get smokes anon.
This. I specifically don't want Taylor to write Batman again. He can have Dick, though.
>nor I like the way he is even calling him "dad"
Remember how many times Batman declared that Dick wasn't his son? Good times.
I do.
Did it actually happen?
Yes, I can't post pictures right now, but Bruce said multiple times before that Dick isn't his son and Dick himself said that Bruce didn't act as parent nor wanted to be a one to him. This is actually more interesting dynamic than whatever DC doing right now.
>thread runs off talking about Green Lantern
Jasonbros, Donnasisters.. are we that bad?
Donna has been damaged goods ever since Wolfman had his OC pork her and Jason hasn't been good since his movie, and that's because Batgay's editors won't ever EVER let him upstage Batman despite how much the vast majority of readers agree that Batman is a massive cuck for letting Joker get away with everything.
Stop replying to a bait post seriously, smarty.
Donna's been fricked over ever since her creation because she's explicitly a TT character linked to WW rather than a WW character used in TT. Imagine you were writing Batman in the 60s. One day you run into Bob Haney on the way to the shitter and he informs you that he's added that Robin character from your backups to a sidekick team book they're calling Teen Titans. You inform him that those backups are about a seven year old Bruce Wayne solving mysteries around the neighborhood in a Halloween costume. Three months later you find out that according to editorial Batman has had a young sidekick this whole time as of this month's publication of Teen Titans #1. Oh, and you can't use the character without running everything by TT's editor because they have full control over it. That's basically Donna's origin in a nutshell.
Even with Donna now shared under WW's editorial, most writers aren't going to want to use her because she comes with decades of history outside WW, decades of baggage that have made her something of a joke among writers and fans for bad writing, and she's a shared character. At the end of the day, why use Donna when WW has a bunch of cast members that don't have her issues?
I find it funny that people shit on Titansgays for liking a highly popular and well-regarded adaptation over the comic version - whose own fans freely admit it's been varying flavors of hot garbage for 40 years running.
>a highly popular and well-regarded adaptation over the comic version
TT'03 is a shitty bastardization of the comics and none of the punch because the characters are reduced to basic tropes.
The original comics weren’t even that great, dude. Plus, it’s an adaptation, not a translation. It can do its own thing. It’s not that serious.
>Batgay's editors won't ever EVER let him upstage Batman despite how much the vast majority of readers agree that Batman is a massive cuck for letting Joker get away with everything
>Why won't Dc undermine their best seller for the their selling batfam member!!?
jasongay...
Batman is overrated and isn't selling shit.
>bait or moronation
That page is from Vendettis run though
>>bait or moronation
cope or seethe?
Lmao. Cope about what?
>Yeah, I actually found myself enjoying most of Hal and Pals, but it wasn't exactly consistent.
tbf it seemed like Venditti was setting up a bunch of stuff before the book got canned - evil star lanterns for one. I think he implied somewhere that she had gotten possessed by parallax.
>Lmao. Cope about what?
Batman's alleged status as a top seller.
>That page is from Vendettis run though
that's because I googled "Kyle Rayner constructs" and found this pic cool, all I know about Kyle is coming from his appearances in JLA comicbooks.
Worst of all is that they actually believe it
At least you got those NUMBERS to comfort you.
Kyle's the only controversial one.
>pic
Superhero fans are so cringe when they draw "cool" shit like this
Like cartoon fans don't draw cringey shit.
When they.. draw characters well? What kind of monkey ass bullshit logic are you spewing here moron?
Honestly Kyle is mostly the Wasted Potential Lantern. His villains are all shit and his job is very underutilized. He should in theory be the "not that strong, but most creative Green Lantern", but since capeshit tends to be mostly power level homosexualry or "acktyually I had come prepared with the perfect silver bullet for you and was just letting you beat me for reasons", it never comes up.
His relationships are also bad. His most important relationship is probably being Jade's boyfriend, but Jade's supporting cast (Golden Age hero dad, Golden Age supervillain mom with split personality, angsty gay brother that is a portal to evil dimension with split personality, the fricking JSA and their kids), is waaaay more interesting than Kyle so when they are together I always want to know more about what Jade is up to.
His dynamics with the Justice League were fine as the younger more inexperienced hero, but now that he is no longer with them or that inexperienced, and they have Hal to call when they need a GL he has literally no relationship with any of them. At least Guy Gardner has his hothead personality and vegana lantern has a vegana. And his dynamics with most of the other corps are also lacking because they were dead for most of his run.
Honestly think next reboot they should de-age him so he is 16-17 when he gets the ring and put him in the Teen Titans.
Not the worst idea. If Hal had to train him it might be fun.
Isn't Kyle already in the same boat as first generation sidekicks anyway? He's been paired with Donna and Wally before.
I mean, he is in the boat of characters nobody knows what to do with. Which has been true for Donna since forever, and just sucks for Wally since Flashpoint (and the Flash side of the DCU in general).
And yeah, you could put him in the Teen Titans in the current continuity, but it seems like a downgrade for someone who started out in the Justice League and has wielded Cosmic-level powers multiple times before. I guess that is why they keep him as a secret weapon of the Guardians or a powerful member of the GLC.
>I mean, he is in the boat of characters nobody knows what to do with.
That too, but I meant in the generational sense, he's like Dick, Wally, Roy, etc.
>And yeah, you could put him in the Teen Titans in the current continuity, but it seems like a downgrade for someone who started out in the Justice League and has wielded Cosmic-level powers multiple times before.
Maybe, but you could say the same about Wally, he's been in the JL and the Titans, and with the Titans as the only big team right now, it's not really a downgrade (in-universe at least), and Kyle has been part of the Titans before anyways.
To be honest, I see it as downgrade, but he is indeed originally a titan.
I mean, it is technically a downgrade, but it really shouldn't be, the Titans as an adult team should be treated as a big time team and not a bunch of young adults who peaked in high school.
>His most important relationship is probably being Jade's boyfriend
I'd say his most important one was with Soranik until Venditti ruined it for no reason.
I'm still pissed about it, specially cause Soranik just vanished after that.
The worst thing about Venditti is that he had spouts of good writing then would follow it up with absolutely terrible takes.
Yeah, I actually found myself enjoying most of Hal and Pals, but it wasn't exactly consistent.
>That page is from Vendettis run though
Is it? I think it's actually from Green Lanterns, from the story where Simon and Jess get trained by Kyle and Guy.
Venditti is Green Lantern’s answer to Chuck Dixon.
>this post
It's almost like Emerald Twilight was a mistake and the editors who wrote it up were massive morons.
>Honestly think next reboot they should de-age him so he is 16-17 when he gets the ring and put him in the Teen Titans.
I thought this was a good angle too when I was like 12 and making my "own DCU." Made Kyle a member of Dick's generation and had him start off as a rookie Lantern.
Kyle has always been a part of Dick's generation.
Well yeah, but while Dick was fighting criminals as Robin, Kyle was just an average kid, he didn't become a Lantern until way later.
Jason needs to get his stupid helmet back.
Donna needs a new name, preferably one that doesn't mean prostitute.
Kyle is soon getting a new story by Ron Marz, so that's cool I guess.
>Donna needs a new name, preferably one that doesn't mean prostitute.
What name could she even get?
Poor Kyle can't catch a break.
The only replacement I've ever really gotten attached to is Wally West, im indifferent to other ones but Kyle and Miles really aren't that different with the powers and asspulls they shit out, I mean not to say Wally doesn't get favoritism from the writers buuuuut idk I just feel like he earns it with all the emotions he went through
NOOOOO DC YOU CAN'T WRITE THAT
Why does Donna look mannish?
>Tim getting his wiener sucked by Bernard does not mean he's suddenly thinking every sexy girl he sees is uggo and doesn't excite him.
The fact that Tim is open to sucking dick is what throws off the male readers because they can't comprehend/relate to it. Tim could have a cool scene but it will always be undone because they'll always shove in Bernard/Tim's newfound love of penis. The LGBT will never be cool unless they play it straight and make them gay as frick. Tim is a lost cause so lets return to Kyle Rayner.
Remember when Jason and Donna almost hit the trade c*enter with pl@ne?
My gripe with DC now is after they open up the omniverse and even world is I 1 space.
Why isn't there alternative DC books that aren't 1 off where Jason kills the joker
And when he goes to jail ppl protest for his release and gets a trial where side members main family superhero have to be the jury. Can only chose 1 to representative
Like leather superboy or power girl. Wally. Knight wing
No super man and batman in jury
>Like leather superboy or power girl
>jury
Wat?
Leather Superboy is made using lex and super man DNA. Power girl is a version of super girl aged up
A jury is a group of selected people attending a trial to determine is a person is innocent or guilty
hope this help friend
They were allowed to grow and get character development because their fans are sane.
I smell jealousy here
Funny thing is, the only reason Jason was part of this team was because Morrison wanted Dick around for his Batman run.
> Dick was going to be labelled as a cosmic mistake by editorial but morrisson saved his husbando
Kek.
Remember that the next time you seethe about status quo
I'm not a GL guy and outside of Geoff's run I barely know anything about lanterns but I've always liked Kyle more, mostly because of how creative his constructs were. would've loved it if Hals constructs were just as cool.
Drawing fanart of countdown? Go to jail.