Michael was too hard on Fredo. He knew Fredo had a mental problem. Vito even says he was “touched by the angels” and isn’t cunning or tough like his two brothers. Hyman Roth and Johnny Ola were dead. There was no threat. Fredo gives up the Senate information too, so he had some value.
Vito should have been the one to set in motion going legit even if it meant less power and money. The Olive Business wasn't just a front, it actually amde decent money. Yeah it was also to launder all their illegal shit, and help ship over contraband but it was a real business.
And Michael fricked up by taking until the third film to go legitimate. Fredo should have run some hotel in Vegas and be treated like a hot shot. Michael's sin is that he treated Fredo and his wife like pawns, and thus they rebelled and betrayed him in their own ways.
Michael was moving towards legitimacy in the 2nd movie, but shit kept happening. He'd been mostly legitimate for a long time by the 3rd movie. Obviously things took longer than what he told Kay but he was working in that direction for a long time.
Imagine how it must feel being Fredo, everyone just ignored you in the line of succession in favour of Michael, there isn’t even a discussion about it, it’s just assumed, despite being in the fricking mafia everyone treats you like a child because you're slow, and your younger chad brother just sends you out to do errands and trivial shit to keep you occupied, and the one (1) time you take initiative and try to be cunning you almost get your entire family wiped out.
And then imagine being Michael, executing your own brother, who was perfectly content to go fishing on the lake with his pathetic little hat and coat for the rest of his life.
>who was perfectly content to go fishing on the lake with his pathetic little hat and coat for the rest of his life.
for now, fredo might be moronic but he was also a sleazeball who could frick up in the future
How? He was totally locked out of the family business with zero influence. Nothing he could do. If he lived, he would’ve just sat about in the compound all day.
It was his access to the compound that caused problems to begin with as he let in literal assassins. The script says that Fredo agreed to a kidnapping which was to put pressure on Michael to make a deal. Likely just sold it as to scare him. But even that's such a huge frickup like holy hell.
So should he have been killed? Nah. But exile and never allowed in the compound again.
He didn't have much official power within the family but he had still grown up in that world and had long term connections. He was also a weak link which left the family vulnerable to anyone who was capable of playing him.
Check again. It was Fredo's Brothel/night club that they carried it out. They picked her because she was a runaway no one would notice went missing, and she was causing problems. Fredo's there in the scene too but he doesn't talk much. He's totally complicit with the plan. They even brag that the Senator is lucky it was at one of their places.
Yeah, Fredo's a shitty pimp and murdered a teenage girl. Keep that in mind.
>It was Fredo's Brothel/night club that they carried it out.
No shit. Why do you think that means Fredo is in anyway involved? He's a frick up and not trusted with that sort of job other than maybe confirming some details about the girls that work there to help them narrow down one with no familial connections.
Point is, do you think he protested it in any way? He's an accomplice. The whole point of that murder is that it's a line Vito would have never crossed. Vito killed people so it's not like he was a pacifist, but it was all butthole bullies who had it coming to them. And Fredo is part of that corruption, or at least, too weak to do anything to stop it. If Fredo got charged, he'd be facing murder 1 there. The whole approach is that Vito had some sense of honor and community values, while Michael has none. It's all money to him and he sits far away from real people like some secluded king.
The scene with Pentangeli complaining that the band doesn't know any Italian music is symbolic. yeah it's bullshit romanticization of the mafia, but I'm just explaining the themes of the story.
>Point is, do you think he protested it in any way?
Protest what? He wouldn't be given any details. Al probably just sat down with him and asked him about a few of the girls and would've been evasive if Fredo asked him why but I don't even think he would.
The rest of your post about Vito and the murders is just goalpost shifting and irrelevant to what was being discussed about Fredo's role, if any. I don't know why you even brought it up.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's Fredo's brothel and there's no way he wouldn't be part of the plan or had his permission to be there. Al Neri isn't just gonna show up for a social call and he or someone else needs full access to the facility to first drug the girl and the Senator, then to carry out the murder, and to keep it all hidden.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I think he'd be on a needs to know basis and he'd be told that the senator would be attending his brothel on X day and to ensure that he is paired with Y girl and that'd be the extent of his involvement. While he might have had suspicions about something malicious I doubt he'd be given enough information to definitively object.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>I think he'd be on a needs to know basis and he'd be told that the senator would be attending his brothel on X day and to ensure that he is paired with Y girl and that'd be the extent of his involvement. While he might have had suspicions about something malicious I doubt he'd be given enough information to definitively object.
And who is slipping the drugs into their drinks? Think Anon. Is Al Neri hanging around the kitchen? It's either Al Neri or Fredo himself. And if it's Al Neri, then he's there because Fredo wants him there.
The only way I can see this being pulled off with as few witnesses as possible, and Al Neri being not conspicuous as hell:
>Al is given a full room on his own right beside them >Al having a full room to himself to plan and prepare is suspicious as hell, and Fredo would have had to have known what they were doing >Fredo or Al makes sure the drink is laced and placed into the room beforehand >Fredo or Al checks and when they're out, Al Neri kills her >Michael and the others had to have been there waiting since Neri is still cleaning the blood off of him when the scene starts >Fredo and Michael wake up the Senator and he freaks out >Scene starts
>Conspiracy to commit murder >blackmail >Murder 1 >RICO
That is just the start of Fredo's charges.
He didn't have much official power within the family but he had still grown up in that world and had long term connections. He was also a weak link which left the family vulnerable to anyone who was capable of playing him.
And he'd also fricking flip the first chance he got too, make no mistake. Feds put pressure on him and make him feel smart for cutting a deal to get Michael a reduced sentence or some shit. Pure lies but he's stupid enough to go along with it.
Complicit but he didn't do the deed. Al did - he appears toweling off his hands in the bathroom in that scene. Get on my level of understanding cinema subtleties.
imo he was skipped over.
>superior
only in moronation
Michael was too hard on Fredo. He knew Fredo had a mental problem. Vito even says he was “touched by the angels” and isn’t cunning or tough like his two brothers. Hyman Roth and Johnny Ola were dead. There was no threat. Fredo gives up the Senate information too, so he had some value.
Vito should have been the one to set in motion going legit even if it meant less power and money. The Olive Business wasn't just a front, it actually amde decent money. Yeah it was also to launder all their illegal shit, and help ship over contraband but it was a real business.
And Michael fricked up by taking until the third film to go legitimate. Fredo should have run some hotel in Vegas and be treated like a hot shot. Michael's sin is that he treated Fredo and his wife like pawns, and thus they rebelled and betrayed him in their own ways.
Michael was moving towards legitimacy in the 2nd movie, but shit kept happening. He'd been mostly legitimate for a long time by the 3rd movie. Obviously things took longer than what he told Kay but he was working in that direction for a long time.
Imagine how it must feel being Fredo, everyone just ignored you in the line of succession in favour of Michael, there isn’t even a discussion about it, it’s just assumed, despite being in the fricking mafia everyone treats you like a child because you're slow, and your younger chad brother just sends you out to do errands and trivial shit to keep you occupied, and the one (1) time you take initiative and try to be cunning you almost get your entire family wiped out.
And then imagine being Michael, executing your own brother, who was perfectly content to go fishing on the lake with his pathetic little hat and coat for the rest of his life.
>who was perfectly content to go fishing on the lake with his pathetic little hat and coat for the rest of his life.
for now, fredo might be moronic but he was also a sleazeball who could frick up in the future
How? He was totally locked out of the family business with zero influence. Nothing he could do. If he lived, he would’ve just sat about in the compound all day.
It was his access to the compound that caused problems to begin with as he let in literal assassins. The script says that Fredo agreed to a kidnapping which was to put pressure on Michael to make a deal. Likely just sold it as to scare him. But even that's such a huge frickup like holy hell.
So should he have been killed? Nah. But exile and never allowed in the compound again.
He didn't have much official power within the family but he had still grown up in that world and had long term connections. He was also a weak link which left the family vulnerable to anyone who was capable of playing him.
Fredo is corrupt as frick, and setup that junkie runaway teenager to be murdered to setup the Senator.
I doubt he was even included in that plan.
Check again. It was Fredo's Brothel/night club that they carried it out. They picked her because she was a runaway no one would notice went missing, and she was causing problems. Fredo's there in the scene too but he doesn't talk much. He's totally complicit with the plan. They even brag that the Senator is lucky it was at one of their places.
Yeah, Fredo's a shitty pimp and murdered a teenage girl. Keep that in mind.
>It was Fredo's Brothel/night club that they carried it out.
No shit. Why do you think that means Fredo is in anyway involved? He's a frick up and not trusted with that sort of job other than maybe confirming some details about the girls that work there to help them narrow down one with no familial connections.
Point is, do you think he protested it in any way? He's an accomplice. The whole point of that murder is that it's a line Vito would have never crossed. Vito killed people so it's not like he was a pacifist, but it was all butthole bullies who had it coming to them. And Fredo is part of that corruption, or at least, too weak to do anything to stop it. If Fredo got charged, he'd be facing murder 1 there. The whole approach is that Vito had some sense of honor and community values, while Michael has none. It's all money to him and he sits far away from real people like some secluded king.
The scene with Pentangeli complaining that the band doesn't know any Italian music is symbolic. yeah it's bullshit romanticization of the mafia, but I'm just explaining the themes of the story.
>Point is, do you think he protested it in any way?
Protest what? He wouldn't be given any details. Al probably just sat down with him and asked him about a few of the girls and would've been evasive if Fredo asked him why but I don't even think he would.
The rest of your post about Vito and the murders is just goalpost shifting and irrelevant to what was being discussed about Fredo's role, if any. I don't know why you even brought it up.
It's Fredo's brothel and there's no way he wouldn't be part of the plan or had his permission to be there. Al Neri isn't just gonna show up for a social call and he or someone else needs full access to the facility to first drug the girl and the Senator, then to carry out the murder, and to keep it all hidden.
I think he'd be on a needs to know basis and he'd be told that the senator would be attending his brothel on X day and to ensure that he is paired with Y girl and that'd be the extent of his involvement. While he might have had suspicions about something malicious I doubt he'd be given enough information to definitively object.
>I think he'd be on a needs to know basis and he'd be told that the senator would be attending his brothel on X day and to ensure that he is paired with Y girl and that'd be the extent of his involvement. While he might have had suspicions about something malicious I doubt he'd be given enough information to definitively object.
And who is slipping the drugs into their drinks? Think Anon. Is Al Neri hanging around the kitchen? It's either Al Neri or Fredo himself. And if it's Al Neri, then he's there because Fredo wants him there.
The only way I can see this being pulled off with as few witnesses as possible, and Al Neri being not conspicuous as hell:
>Al is given a full room on his own right beside them
>Al having a full room to himself to plan and prepare is suspicious as hell, and Fredo would have had to have known what they were doing
>Fredo or Al makes sure the drink is laced and placed into the room beforehand
>Fredo or Al checks and when they're out, Al Neri kills her
>Michael and the others had to have been there waiting since Neri is still cleaning the blood off of him when the scene starts
>Fredo and Michael wake up the Senator and he freaks out
>Scene starts
The only hint is that it's really recent, as
>Conspiracy to commit murder
>blackmail
>Murder 1
>RICO
That is just the start of Fredo's charges.
And he'd also fricking flip the first chance he got too, make no mistake. Feds put pressure on him and make him feel smart for cutting a deal to get Michael a reduced sentence or some shit. Pure lies but he's stupid enough to go along with it.
The RICO act didn't exist in the 50s.
Complicit but he didn't do the deed. Al did - he appears toweling off his hands in the bathroom in that scene. Get on my level of understanding cinema subtleties.
>subtleties
>Fredo Internet Defense Force in action
Morally and legally he might as well have stabbed the girl himself.
Name one thing in which Fredo was superior to Michael.
He was a people person
chad answers
Also, he always got more head than Michael. Get it?
He could bang twice as many wienertail waitresses at once than Michael.
Fredo had a better actor
Al Pacino is a fraud.
only because he died after doing like 5 films
Hot wife
he was a pencil necked homosexual and constantly got stepped on by the people who he was in business with. try not to fall asleep next time zoomie
>it's a Lucy Mancini's pussy is too loose arc
Talentless extra that never should have been in anything.