I just want my hard R Turtles so they can actually use their weapons, but if I could have any adaptation it would be the Raph and Casey solo comic Bodycount.
No. Lets stop bullshitting about creators vision with TMNT.
TMNT got popular with the 80s cartoon, and the 80s cartoon got released like 9 issues into the comics run.
You wanna say adapt those first few issues? Ok. That's not enough substance for a whole series, and we certainly don't need to adapt the later comic shit like April turning into a wienerroach.
>TMNT got popular with the 80s cartoon, and the 80s cartoon got released like 9 issues into the comics run. >You wanna say adapt those first few issues? Ok. That's not enough substance for a whole series,
The 80's cartoon basically stretched out its concept over 7 seasons. Its very repetitive.
Bringing uo the "April is a drawing" thing is silly because it comes in so late into the Mirage stuff, where the turtles are adults. There's a ton of material in all the Mirage comics; especially the tales stuff, that's ripe for adaptation, and is no more stupid than anything from the cartoons.
Is that a joke? Dude, there's like 200 issues worth of material to work with, you can easily ring out like 150 episodes out of that.
Why do people pretend Mirage was short lived and not substantial? Is it because they just want to perpetuate a meme that it was a one-shot parody? Because that just ignores facts.
Its a shame everyone just goes to the weirder Volume 4 plots, when Tales of the TMNT running at the same time is a goldmine for cool turtles stories. April as a drawing is the go-go Mirage criticism and it comes within the last year or so of the Comics, yet people act as if it was a major development early on.
Yeah, including the guest spots, there were around 90 issues released before vol 4 and there's quite a few good stories in there. Hell, the magic drawing thing even comes fairly late into vol 4 itself.
I know these people often have an irrational attachment to the 1987 cartoon and the fact that the franchise didn't start with it, as well as there being iterations of the franchise that largely ignore it in favor of using the comics as a basis, does tend to threaten their preferred perception of the franchise. There's probably going to be a point when the 1987 cartoon no longer represents the general understanding of what TMNT is in pop culture, partially because IDW keeps printing the old comics and thus they are (amusingly) easier to come by now than the 1987 cartoon, but mostly because Paramount will just keep doing reboots until one of them catch on. Which is really just the nature of reboot heavy franchises really, there was probably some point in history when the average person's idea of Spider-Man was the 1967 cartoon but it's probably pretty safe to assume that has been replaced by the Raimi movies, which might themselves be replaced by the MCU version or some other version in the future.
I get the attachment to some extent of course, I know I have a hard time detaching myself from the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon. But it kind of feels like the TMNT fanbase is what the JLA fanbase would have been if they never managed to accept that Super Friends is lame and somehow kept pretending JLA started with Super Friends. I know it won't always be like that, it just feels like the TMNT fanbase is at least 10 years overdue on accepting the truth.
OCD/'tism question: Leo almost always has two shoulder straps since Mirage, Don has always had a single shoulder strap since 2012 (and that had clear genesis in the 1990 movie). Why hasn't Raph or Mikey gotten a unique belt? I'm game for Raph having it since he got sai holsters in his 87 and 2K3 toys, since Mikey's nunchucks don't need special holsters to keep them safe and he's the OG-designed turtle, so he can keep the default/featureless belt.
>TMNT got popular with the 80s cartoon, and the 80s cartoon got released like 9 issues into the comics run. >You wanna say adapt those first few issues? Ok. That's not enough substance for a whole series,
The 80's cartoon basically stretched out its concept over 7 seasons. Its very repetitive.
Bringing uo the "April is a drawing" thing is silly because it comes in so late into the Mirage stuff, where the turtles are adults. There's a ton of material in all the Mirage comics; especially the tales stuff, that's ripe for adaptation, and is no more stupid than anything from the cartoons.
I actually agree with both of you - first anon is right at how little stuff there was when the 87 toon was released, but later stuff AFTER volume 1 and all associated material (Tales vol. 1, one-shots/specials, mini-series, anthology stories) are mostly (see below) shit. I find the volume 1 era itself an amazing core for Mirage TMNT and it's capped off nicely by City at War.
I like the Mirage version where he's initially morally grey but honorable before settling down.
I much prefer Splinter being the rat than the human, I realize thats more unpopular. But regardless of how he learns martial arts as a rat, I like that he's basically a pet out for vengeance.
Anon gets it right: Splinter rat or human should be out for revenge but raising the turtles turns him more noble and good-hearted. Helped by Shredder indeed being killed, of course, but still.
I like combining Yoshi and Splinter into one: the Tang Shen/Yoshi/Oroku Nagi triangle and death happens, Yoshi and Shen move to NYC, Saki establishes the NY Foot for revenge.... and supposedly kills Yoshi, only for him to fall into the sewers and eventually preps for suicide when the baby turtles and ooze fall on him. Cue him training them for revenge but also a new lease on life as a father.
For adults or kids?
For adults: >Basic plot of Mirage vol 1, vol 2 and Tales vol 1 remixed to follow a more logical progression. >Highlights but certainly not all parts of vol 4, Tales vol 2 and the various minis and micros to help smooth it out. >Make it clear that Splinter did in fact have his psychic powers before the mutation and maybe use the Hattori story to further expand upon his martial arts abilities. >Make sure there are clear cause and effect story elements. >You can probably have the ending proper be City at War, with the Vol 2 stuff moved to somewhere in the middle along with other stories that would otherwise undermine the ending. >Stories that are good but can't be placed before City at War can be used for an epilogue. >Do not be afraid of showing the turtles drink alcohol and such, no need to tone it down this time.
For kids: >Probably something similar to the 2003 show in terms of story structure and faithfulness to the comics, though not exactly like it of course. >Avoid obvious budget cuts. >Only introduce new characters because the plot calls for it. >Don't make the humor annoying. >The Turtles should not drive around in ugly, inconspicuous vehicles, even if that is what Playmates wants. >Keep the plots simple but not pointless. >If you're gonna have OCs, please don't try to make them the next big thing like with Tiger Claw, it doesn't work. >Don't pretend the 1987 cartoon is worth emulating just because you liked it when you were five, it is a really shallow iteration of the franchise and you can't get much substance out of it. >Episodes should not be written in a day and put some effort into the scripts. >Please don't literally recycle scripts from other shows, it's really awkward. >Kids likely won't care if it's shit but that's not an excuse to make shit, it's just going to create a fanbase with low standards and a warped concept of quality... Ahem...
Volumes 2, 4, and Tales vol 2 (ESPECIALLY vol 2) are basically the Jim Lawson show, which explains why it's different-feeling to volume 1's era when Eastman and Laird didn't just create a lot of the concepts but worked together. You are right there's highlights I'd like to make canon for sure - Klunk's ending makes me tear up to this day - but I think just the vol 1 era works. So much of vol 2 onward is just weird, even if I respect it continues TMNT's kitchen sink approach to any and everything comic book-y being thrown in.
>Volumes 2, 4, and Tales vol 2 (ESPECIALLY vol 2) are basically the Jim Lawson show, which explains why it's different-feeling to volume 1's era when Eastman and Laird didn't just create a lot of the concepts but worked together.
I think its mainly the loss of Eastman; Laird and Lawson always seemed to be of the same mind for a lot of stuff. Eastman is the one who pushed for more action and gritty street action romps and boobs. Vol 4 was basically a slice of life story. I wouldn't say Tales v2 was the Lawson show, though. Steven Murphy handled just about all of it and its closer to TMNT Adventures if anything.
You're right. I noticed Laird always seemed to focus on the sci-fi stuff via that being a major focus once he held control of the franchise after Eastman left for Heavy Metal, much less that he did Don's microseries issue with its high-concept story vs Raph meeting Casey and being a gritty street-level story being all Eastman - or the Bodycount miniseries. Now, obviously, TMNT can work great with either focus, but when Eastman and Laird were together... man, no wonder volume 1 was magical. I stand corrected on volume 2's makers though. I would've sworn it was all him. I guess my memory failed me.
Barely related: I admit Mirage-style TMNT with colored bandannas is peak TMNT to me in visuals as a 36-year old boomer. I actually think that's a part of why the older fandom's why it is, strange as it sounds: we grew up with the 87 toon but ALSO a shit-ton of Mirage stock art recolored or a bunch of new stuff drawn by them for the toy line and merchandise in general. Combine it with later stuff in the 87 era like the Archie comics getting serious or the Genesis Tournament Fighter game being "87 if 100% Mirage-ified" and I think oldgays grew up thinking TMNT from those days was much more badass than the actual cartoon they didn't actually remember much of by then was. But it ALSO paved the way for ready acceptance of 2K3 being "Mirage, but palatable for kids" since that fitted the 'image' oldgays had of TMNT by then. If... if any of that makes sense?
As a 30 year old boomer, I completely get you. I missed out on the old cartoon, only had the next mutation and the toys, which at that point went for a really cool oriented comic book/anime inspired look. then 5 years of nothing. So when the 03 show came out I was all over it despite being borderline too old for cartoons. and honestly I know a lot of people my age who watched the first few seasons of 03 because we all wanted a good TMNT series.
I just wished more of Mirage actually looked like Dooney or Laird's art style. I don't hate Lawson but its hard to take so much of him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lawson used to be legit real good and in line with the other Mirage artists. But volume 2 on he... just got really ugly in style. I wonder what happened?
2 years ago
Anonymous
He traded in his old style for speed. He can knockput a book in a week or so, but it looks wonky as hell.
The problem is there really isn't much to the core Turtles vs Foot plotEventually you start bringing in things like the Foot using mutants(which leads to Utroms or Kraang) or the turtles defeating Shredder, which leads to other enemies. Even the foot clan themselves had arcane magic early on
>but I believe there should be a de-emphasis on the show's more extraterrestrial/mystical elements. >When the entire premise of the series involves a bunch of turtles and an old man/rat falling into a puddle of alien goo
I can see the desire to want something like the 1990 movie or Season 1 of the 2003 show. But I think something like that can only really work with a short form series.
Okay, so I’ve had some time to think about the basics of how I would adapt my basic idea of TMNT
The Protagonists:
>The Ooze’s origin will never be explained. It’s just a mysterious chemical that transformed Splinter & the turtles into the mutants they are.
>Splinter was formerly a human known as Hamato Yoshi. A man trying his absolute hardest to atone for past failures in his old life & to be a wise father figure to the turtles. Unfortunately, an old enemy of his is back to settle the score.
>Leonardo is the closest follower of Splinter’s teachings. He tries to be the responsible older brother, but he’s still learning on how to be a leader.
>Raphael hates injustice. To him, everyone should have a fair shot & seeing the hard-working citizens of New York being terrorized by criminal lowlifes makes his blood boil. This trait frequently makes him throw caution to the wind to try & stop it.
>Donatello is the inventor of the turtles. He enjoys tinkering with new technology & is overall the most educated amongst the turtles. His nerdier traits will be toned down.
>Michelangelo is basically the most normal of the turtles. He enjoys watching what’s going on in the world of humanity. He connects with other people well & is generally the most likely to make friends outside the core group.
>April O’Neil is a vlogger who discovered the Turtle’s secret. She was doing an investigation on the rumors of a Rat King in New York’s tunnel system when she accidentally stumbled into Michelangelo doing a pizza run. This kickstarted a series of events that led to her becoming the Turtle’s main human friend. She basically does everything the Turtles can’t do due to them trying to keep a low profile.
>It will take a while for Casey Jones to show up. He’s a teenager who is inspired by the mysterious defenders of New York & wants to take a stand against criminal organizations like the Purple Dragons.
>Shredder is unquestionably the principal antagonist of the series. The man responsible for the brutal murders of Splinter’s old family. A vicious monster who hides under the mask of a stern businessman. Splinter thought that he killed him years ago when he was still a human but unfortunately, he survived & has spent the past few years creating the criminal organization known as the Foot. He has now arrived back in New York to even the score against Splinter.
>Baxter Stockman is a deeply misanthropic individual who wastes his genius on getting revenge against anyone who has ever slighted him. A major subplot of my interpretation of the franchise is his slow abandonment of his humanity. Becoming more & more robotic with every new appearance until he has completely shed his human body.
>Hun: The leader of the Purple Dragons, the number one gang in New York. Hun is a cruel man who relishes in the fear & respect that his gang brings in his name. The turtles dismantling his gang piece by piece enrages him & he will become increasingly more vicious & wrathful to maintain his reputation. These actions will pave the way for his eventual defeat.
>The Rat King is the starter villain of my interpretation of the franchise. A psychic with a god complex who desires to enslave all of humanity. He’s spent years preparing for his masterstroke, that will ensure all of New York falls to him. Unfortunately, a few critical mistakes led to his confrontation with the Turtles. Which ends with his death.
On the one hand, I agree that keeping the turtle's lower power is good, as trying to be too over the top (like the michael bay one) can hurt the series.
on the other hand, I love krang and the turtles getting into crazy alien hijinx is actually more true to the "Core" of the turtles than focusing on the foot clan: In the original comics Shredder was a throw away villain and then it went to more outlandish stuff like the triceratons and ultroms.
TMNT only works in a pre-smartphone era. Since a huge part of their identity is them being secret and hiding from the spotlight of humanity ala bigfoot, yeti, other paranormal stuff
Did they ever make sense moron? Walking talking turtles that fight crime? Frickin moron.
Being a cloaked dimension hopping hyper intelligent ape hooligan in a giant forest is one thing but being a ninja in a city of everlasting light and wall to wall cameras is another.
Creating interference to avoid detection itself draws attention. Eventually you could triangulate the turtle's position based on where and when the blackouts happen. Although there's the laughing man route which puts a filter over you while being observed through interconnected tech. Can't use invisibility because it's not all that interesting visually.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Creating interference to avoid detection itself draws attention.
And beating up thugs in allyways doesn't? You can up with a dozen different ways to make it work, you're just being needlessly anal.
I like the Mirage version where he's initially morally grey but honorable before settling down.
I much prefer Splinter being the rat than the human, I realize thats more unpopular. But regardless of how he learns martial arts as a rat, I like that he's basically a pet out for vengeance.
For adults: >Basic plot of Mirage vol 1, vol 2 and Tales vol 1 remixed to follow a more logical progression. >Highlights but certainly not all parts of vol 4, Tales vol 2 and the various minis and micros to help smooth it out. >Make it clear that Splinter did in fact have his psychic powers before the mutation and maybe use the Hattori story to further expand upon his martial arts abilities. >Make sure there are clear cause and effect story elements. >You can probably have the ending proper be City at War, with the Vol 2 stuff moved to somewhere in the middle along with other stories that would otherwise undermine the ending. >Stories that are good but can't be placed before City at War can be used for an epilogue. >Do not be afraid of showing the turtles drink alcohol and such, no need to tone it down this time.
For kids: >Probably something similar to the 2003 show in terms of story structure and faithfulness to the comics, though not exactly like it of course. >Avoid obvious budget cuts. >Only introduce new characters because the plot calls for it. >Don't make the humor annoying. >The Turtles should not drive around in ugly, inconspicuous vehicles, even if that is what Playmates wants. >Keep the plots simple but not pointless. >If you're gonna have OCs, please don't try to make them the next big thing like with Tiger Claw, it doesn't work. >Don't pretend the 1987 cartoon is worth emulating just because you liked it when you were five, it is a really shallow iteration of the franchise and you can't get much substance out of it. >Episodes should not be written in a day and put some effort into the scripts. >Please don't literally recycle scripts from other shows, it's really awkward. >Kids likely won't care if it's shit but that's not an excuse to make shit, it's just going to create a fanbase with low standards and a warped concept of quality... Ahem...
Because Shredder's Revenge isn't a cartoon.
Shredder's Revenge doesn't even have a real story nor does it need one because games don't really need any.
Shredder's Revenge is not very representative of what the cartoon was like.
Shredder's Revenge is part of a genre that isn't difficult to make decent games for.
If you re-skinned the game to look more like it's based on a different iteration, it wouldn't change a damn thing of what's considered good about it.
>If you re-skinned the game to look more like it's based on a different iteration, it wouldn't change a damn thing of what's considered good about it.
I actually genuinely strongly doubt this. 2003 and 2012 lack the certain madcap je nais se quoi that 80s turtles maintain. There's a pretty particular charm to their style that makes them appealing to everyone.
Its fun as hell , but its not like there's any real writing in it The same two head devs also did a GBA game based on the 07 movie so its not like it needed to be based off the 87 cartoon in particular.
That said I do think there's some lessons to be learned from the 87 series if they ever want to do something like the opening animation of the game. That captured the sheer energy and fun of the old cartoon without the weird filler of the show and jokes that fall flat.
Splinter is hamato Yoshi. He fled to new york after trouble with the Foot clan, and was then mutated by a canister of mutagen lost off a truck transporting it for Krang, forcing him to go underground.
Shredder isn't the head of the foot clan: He's the head of the new york branch, having sought out the position to chase after Splinter after he fled Japan (with splinter's mutation causing him to drop off the radar completely, robbing Shredder of the ability to exact his revenge that he's seeking).
The actual head of the foot clan is still in Japan, and Shredder technically still answers to them. Moreover, he's actually more skilled than Shredder.
Krang is a rogue ultrom criminal that's seeking to take over earth as he has other planets, with an army of mutants and rock soldiers in his base in Dimension X (A a pocket dimension he utilizes to hide from Ultrom authority's seeking to capture/arrest him).
The Turtles end up coming into conflict with him as he secretly attempts to setup plans to overthrow the world's government's and take over (With a scorched earth fallback plan of a giant mutagen bomb if all else fails).
During this, the shredder becomes aware of the turtles and Hamato yoshi, but he ALSO becomes aware of Krang's technology.
He then seeks to parlay an alliance with Krang in order to gain this technology to both destroy the turtles and overthrow his boss back in Japan.
Shredder then acts as Krang's second in command on earth, but clearly intending to betray him later on.
Eventually Shredder will assault the headquarters of the Foot clan's leader in japan with an army of Mutants/robots and overthrow him, though he'll get shittalked by the Prior leader about how he's throw away his honor as a ninja by relying on gimmicks and technology/mutagen rather than actual Ninja skill, and then get wounded by the Ninja leader before he dies.
To avoid his death, Shredder will mutate himself, becoming the super shredder.
It'll then climax with Krang ordering Shredder to carry out whatever his final plan is to take over the world, Shredder will betray him, and Krang will seemingly kill shredder and decide to just mutagen bomb the world out of spite and mutate the crap out of everyone, leading to the turtles being forced to stop him.
The ultroms will finally show up, arrest Krang and frickoff, with shredder turning up alive after this and taking over the role as final villain. Lacking the support of the rest of the Foot after the fiasco of almost destroying the world and without krang, shredder will lack the power to carry out any actual "Big" plans anymore, and will just go on a suicidal final attack against the turtles and splinter to kill them all, ending the series with his defeat.
Season 5's ending, but then watch the end of season 7 and Turtles Forever. There is some lost steam after Season 3 but 4 expands the story
The common mantra of 03 going to shit for the last few seasons is honestly overstated. Fast Forward and back to the sewer are only 13 episodes each, and its still a ~155 episode series. So the last 26 episodes being write offs really isn't that bad of a track record.
Season 3-5 do have some bloat that comes with the universe being so built up, so your mileage may vary in that regard.
>So what would the perfect adaption of TMNT be like?
There's no such thing as a perfect adaptation. Just make one that's giving kids what they want to see, while having good animation for the action scenes. Lots of power of brotherhood, etc. Mostly just things to avoid, like no adding more friendly OCs, etc.
I kind of expect the next pointless mutant drama in IDW will be someone deciding to reverse mutant city with a plot device and then use on the turtles for drama. Turning them human.
Maybe with gratingly pointless Leo/Karai shipping.
the perfect tmnt adaptation would have to somewhat follow the eastman and laird comics.
I just want my hard R Turtles so they can actually use their weapons, but if I could have any adaptation it would be the Raph and Casey solo comic Bodycount.
2K3?
No. Lets stop bullshitting about creators vision with TMNT.
TMNT got popular with the 80s cartoon, and the 80s cartoon got released like 9 issues into the comics run.
You wanna say adapt those first few issues? Ok. That's not enough substance for a whole series, and we certainly don't need to adapt the later comic shit like April turning into a wienerroach.
>TMNT got popular with the 80s cartoon, and the 80s cartoon got released like 9 issues into the comics run.
>You wanna say adapt those first few issues? Ok. That's not enough substance for a whole series,
The 80's cartoon basically stretched out its concept over 7 seasons. Its very repetitive.
Bringing uo the "April is a drawing" thing is silly because it comes in so late into the Mirage stuff, where the turtles are adults. There's a ton of material in all the Mirage comics; especially the tales stuff, that's ripe for adaptation, and is no more stupid than anything from the cartoons.
Is that a joke? Dude, there's like 200 issues worth of material to work with, you can easily ring out like 150 episodes out of that.
Why do people pretend Mirage was short lived and not substantial? Is it because they just want to perpetuate a meme that it was a one-shot parody? Because that just ignores facts.
The Mirrage comics are extremely overrated and aren't the reason TMNT is popular.
People just cling to them because they were technically the original, but that didn't make them very good.
They're better than the thing that "is the reason TMNT is popular". Regardless, there is still plenty of substance there to work with.
Its a shame everyone just goes to the weirder Volume 4 plots, when Tales of the TMNT running at the same time is a goldmine for cool turtles stories. April as a drawing is the go-go Mirage criticism and it comes within the last year or so of the Comics, yet people act as if it was a major development early on.
Yeah, including the guest spots, there were around 90 issues released before vol 4 and there's quite a few good stories in there. Hell, the magic drawing thing even comes fairly late into vol 4 itself.
I know these people often have an irrational attachment to the 1987 cartoon and the fact that the franchise didn't start with it, as well as there being iterations of the franchise that largely ignore it in favor of using the comics as a basis, does tend to threaten their preferred perception of the franchise. There's probably going to be a point when the 1987 cartoon no longer represents the general understanding of what TMNT is in pop culture, partially because IDW keeps printing the old comics and thus they are (amusingly) easier to come by now than the 1987 cartoon, but mostly because Paramount will just keep doing reboots until one of them catch on. Which is really just the nature of reboot heavy franchises really, there was probably some point in history when the average person's idea of Spider-Man was the 1967 cartoon but it's probably pretty safe to assume that has been replaced by the Raimi movies, which might themselves be replaced by the MCU version or some other version in the future.
I get the attachment to some extent of course, I know I have a hard time detaching myself from the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon. But it kind of feels like the TMNT fanbase is what the JLA fanbase would have been if they never managed to accept that Super Friends is lame and somehow kept pretending JLA started with Super Friends. I know it won't always be like that, it just feels like the TMNT fanbase is at least 10 years overdue on accepting the truth.
OCD/'tism question: Leo almost always has two shoulder straps since Mirage, Don has always had a single shoulder strap since 2012 (and that had clear genesis in the 1990 movie). Why hasn't Raph or Mikey gotten a unique belt? I'm game for Raph having it since he got sai holsters in his 87 and 2K3 toys, since Mikey's nunchucks don't need special holsters to keep them safe and he's the OG-designed turtle, so he can keep the default/featureless belt.
I actually agree with both of you - first anon is right at how little stuff there was when the 87 toon was released, but later stuff AFTER volume 1 and all associated material (Tales vol. 1, one-shots/specials, mini-series, anthology stories) are mostly (see below) shit. I find the volume 1 era itself an amazing core for Mirage TMNT and it's capped off nicely by City at War.
Anon gets it right: Splinter rat or human should be out for revenge but raising the turtles turns him more noble and good-hearted. Helped by Shredder indeed being killed, of course, but still.
I like combining Yoshi and Splinter into one: the Tang Shen/Yoshi/Oroku Nagi triangle and death happens, Yoshi and Shen move to NYC, Saki establishes the NY Foot for revenge.... and supposedly kills Yoshi, only for him to fall into the sewers and eventually preps for suicide when the baby turtles and ooze fall on him. Cue him training them for revenge but also a new lease on life as a father.
Volumes 2, 4, and Tales vol 2 (ESPECIALLY vol 2) are basically the Jim Lawson show, which explains why it's different-feeling to volume 1's era when Eastman and Laird didn't just create a lot of the concepts but worked together. You are right there's highlights I'd like to make canon for sure - Klunk's ending makes me tear up to this day - but I think just the vol 1 era works. So much of vol 2 onward is just weird, even if I respect it continues TMNT's kitchen sink approach to any and everything comic book-y being thrown in.
>Volumes 2, 4, and Tales vol 2 (ESPECIALLY vol 2) are basically the Jim Lawson show, which explains why it's different-feeling to volume 1's era when Eastman and Laird didn't just create a lot of the concepts but worked together.
I think its mainly the loss of Eastman; Laird and Lawson always seemed to be of the same mind for a lot of stuff. Eastman is the one who pushed for more action and gritty street action romps and boobs. Vol 4 was basically a slice of life story. I wouldn't say Tales v2 was the Lawson show, though. Steven Murphy handled just about all of it and its closer to TMNT Adventures if anything.
You're right. I noticed Laird always seemed to focus on the sci-fi stuff via that being a major focus once he held control of the franchise after Eastman left for Heavy Metal, much less that he did Don's microseries issue with its high-concept story vs Raph meeting Casey and being a gritty street-level story being all Eastman - or the Bodycount miniseries. Now, obviously, TMNT can work great with either focus, but when Eastman and Laird were together... man, no wonder volume 1 was magical. I stand corrected on volume 2's makers though. I would've sworn it was all him. I guess my memory failed me.
Barely related: I admit Mirage-style TMNT with colored bandannas is peak TMNT to me in visuals as a 36-year old boomer. I actually think that's a part of why the older fandom's why it is, strange as it sounds: we grew up with the 87 toon but ALSO a shit-ton of Mirage stock art recolored or a bunch of new stuff drawn by them for the toy line and merchandise in general. Combine it with later stuff in the 87 era like the Archie comics getting serious or the Genesis Tournament Fighter game being "87 if 100% Mirage-ified" and I think oldgays grew up thinking TMNT from those days was much more badass than the actual cartoon they didn't actually remember much of by then was. But it ALSO paved the way for ready acceptance of 2K3 being "Mirage, but palatable for kids" since that fitted the 'image' oldgays had of TMNT by then. If... if any of that makes sense?
As a 30 year old boomer, I completely get you. I missed out on the old cartoon, only had the next mutation and the toys, which at that point went for a really cool oriented comic book/anime inspired look. then 5 years of nothing. So when the 03 show came out I was all over it despite being borderline too old for cartoons. and honestly I know a lot of people my age who watched the first few seasons of 03 because we all wanted a good TMNT series.
I just wished more of Mirage actually looked like Dooney or Laird's art style. I don't hate Lawson but its hard to take so much of him.
Lawson used to be legit real good and in line with the other Mirage artists. But volume 2 on he... just got really ugly in style. I wonder what happened?
He traded in his old style for speed. He can knockput a book in a week or so, but it looks wonky as hell.
Interesting.
It already exists.
This might be controversial, but I believe there should be a de-emphasis on the show's more extraterrestrial/mystical elements.
These elements usually detract from the core Turtles vs Foot plot.
Naw Triceraton’s are dope
The problem is there really isn't much to the core Turtles vs Foot plotEventually you start bringing in things like the Foot using mutants(which leads to Utroms or Kraang) or the turtles defeating Shredder, which leads to other enemies. Even the foot clan themselves had arcane magic early on
>but I believe there should be a de-emphasis on the show's more extraterrestrial/mystical elements.
>When the entire premise of the series involves a bunch of turtles and an old man/rat falling into a puddle of alien goo
I can see the desire to want something like the 1990 movie or Season 1 of the 2003 show. But I think something like that can only really work with a short form series.
But you can only take that storyline too far. Eventually it would get boring if you got that and nothing else.
Okay, so I’ve had some time to think about the basics of how I would adapt my basic idea of TMNT
The Protagonists:
>The Ooze’s origin will never be explained. It’s just a mysterious chemical that transformed Splinter & the turtles into the mutants they are.
>Splinter was formerly a human known as Hamato Yoshi. A man trying his absolute hardest to atone for past failures in his old life & to be a wise father figure to the turtles. Unfortunately, an old enemy of his is back to settle the score.
>Leonardo is the closest follower of Splinter’s teachings. He tries to be the responsible older brother, but he’s still learning on how to be a leader.
>Raphael hates injustice. To him, everyone should have a fair shot & seeing the hard-working citizens of New York being terrorized by criminal lowlifes makes his blood boil. This trait frequently makes him throw caution to the wind to try & stop it.
>Donatello is the inventor of the turtles. He enjoys tinkering with new technology & is overall the most educated amongst the turtles. His nerdier traits will be toned down.
>Michelangelo is basically the most normal of the turtles. He enjoys watching what’s going on in the world of humanity. He connects with other people well & is generally the most likely to make friends outside the core group.
>April O’Neil is a vlogger who discovered the Turtle’s secret. She was doing an investigation on the rumors of a Rat King in New York’s tunnel system when she accidentally stumbled into Michelangelo doing a pizza run. This kickstarted a series of events that led to her becoming the Turtle’s main human friend. She basically does everything the Turtles can’t do due to them trying to keep a low profile.
>It will take a while for Casey Jones to show up. He’s a teenager who is inspired by the mysterious defenders of New York & wants to take a stand against criminal organizations like the Purple Dragons.
Major Antagonists
>Shredder is unquestionably the principal antagonist of the series. The man responsible for the brutal murders of Splinter’s old family. A vicious monster who hides under the mask of a stern businessman. Splinter thought that he killed him years ago when he was still a human but unfortunately, he survived & has spent the past few years creating the criminal organization known as the Foot. He has now arrived back in New York to even the score against Splinter.
>Baxter Stockman is a deeply misanthropic individual who wastes his genius on getting revenge against anyone who has ever slighted him. A major subplot of my interpretation of the franchise is his slow abandonment of his humanity. Becoming more & more robotic with every new appearance until he has completely shed his human body.
>Hun: The leader of the Purple Dragons, the number one gang in New York. Hun is a cruel man who relishes in the fear & respect that his gang brings in his name. The turtles dismantling his gang piece by piece enrages him & he will become increasingly more vicious & wrathful to maintain his reputation. These actions will pave the way for his eventual defeat.
>The Rat King is the starter villain of my interpretation of the franchise. A psychic with a god complex who desires to enslave all of humanity. He’s spent years preparing for his masterstroke, that will ensure all of New York falls to him. Unfortunately, a few critical mistakes led to his confrontation with the Turtles. Which ends with his death.
On the one hand, I agree that keeping the turtle's lower power is good, as trying to be too over the top (like the michael bay one) can hurt the series.
on the other hand, I love krang and the turtles getting into crazy alien hijinx is actually more true to the "Core" of the turtles than focusing on the foot clan: In the original comics Shredder was a throw away villain and then it went to more outlandish stuff like the triceratons and ultroms.
Do the Ninja Turtles make sense in modern day NYC?
Did they ever make sense moron? Walking talking turtles that fight crime? Frickin moron.
At the the time of their inception, yes. Everyone was worried about toxic waste and gang violence.
TMNT only works in a pre-smartphone era. Since a huge part of their identity is them being secret and hiding from the spotlight of humanity ala bigfoot, yeti, other paranormal stuff
Shut the frick up dumbass.
We still get Bigfoot sightings anon.
And they're "Ninja" turtles anon, the point is they stay hidden.
Being a cloaked dimension hopping hyper intelligent ape hooligan in a giant forest is one thing but being a ninja in a city of everlasting light and wall to wall cameras is another.
Donnie could easily invent something to evade being seen via cameras/phones/whatever
It's not like cameras are new invention either.
Creating interference to avoid detection itself draws attention. Eventually you could triangulate the turtle's position based on where and when the blackouts happen. Although there's the laughing man route which puts a filter over you while being observed through interconnected tech. Can't use invisibility because it's not all that interesting visually.
>Creating interference to avoid detection itself draws attention.
And beating up thugs in allyways doesn't? You can up with a dozen different ways to make it work, you're just being needlessly anal.
No, move them to Philly
Bigger question, should Splinter be pure good, flawed good, anti-hero, or subtle evil?
I like the Mirage version where he's initially morally grey but honorable before settling down.
I much prefer Splinter being the rat than the human, I realize thats more unpopular. But regardless of how he learns martial arts as a rat, I like that he's basically a pet out for vengeance.
I prefer Splinter to be a good guy.
Karai deserves more love.
For adults or kids?
For adults:
>Basic plot of Mirage vol 1, vol 2 and Tales vol 1 remixed to follow a more logical progression.
>Highlights but certainly not all parts of vol 4, Tales vol 2 and the various minis and micros to help smooth it out.
>Make it clear that Splinter did in fact have his psychic powers before the mutation and maybe use the Hattori story to further expand upon his martial arts abilities.
>Make sure there are clear cause and effect story elements.
>You can probably have the ending proper be City at War, with the Vol 2 stuff moved to somewhere in the middle along with other stories that would otherwise undermine the ending.
>Stories that are good but can't be placed before City at War can be used for an epilogue.
>Do not be afraid of showing the turtles drink alcohol and such, no need to tone it down this time.
For kids:
>Probably something similar to the 2003 show in terms of story structure and faithfulness to the comics, though not exactly like it of course.
>Avoid obvious budget cuts.
>Only introduce new characters because the plot calls for it.
>Don't make the humor annoying.
>The Turtles should not drive around in ugly, inconspicuous vehicles, even if that is what Playmates wants.
>Keep the plots simple but not pointless.
>If you're gonna have OCs, please don't try to make them the next big thing like with Tiger Claw, it doesn't work.
>Don't pretend the 1987 cartoon is worth emulating just because you liked it when you were five, it is a really shallow iteration of the franchise and you can't get much substance out of it.
>Episodes should not be written in a day and put some effort into the scripts.
>Please don't literally recycle scripts from other shows, it's really awkward.
>Kids likely won't care if it's shit but that's not an excuse to make shit, it's just going to create a fanbase with low standards and a warped concept of quality... Ahem...
>>Don't pretend the 1987 cartoon is worth emulating
How can you gays say this with a straight face when Shredders Revenge has just come out and is considered the best TMNT content in decades.
Because Shredder's Revenge isn't a cartoon.
Shredder's Revenge doesn't even have a real story nor does it need one because games don't really need any.
Shredder's Revenge is not very representative of what the cartoon was like.
Shredder's Revenge is part of a genre that isn't difficult to make decent games for.
If you re-skinned the game to look more like it's based on a different iteration, it wouldn't change a damn thing of what's considered good about it.
>If you re-skinned the game to look more like it's based on a different iteration, it wouldn't change a damn thing of what's considered good about it.
I actually genuinely strongly doubt this. 2003 and 2012 lack the certain madcap je nais se quoi that 80s turtles maintain. There's a pretty particular charm to their style that makes them appealing to everyone.
>There's a pretty particular charm to their style that makes them appealing to everyone.
It makes me want to puke, so clearly that's not true.
Everyone that isn't a Mirage diehard.
Its fun as hell , but its not like there's any real writing in it The same two head devs also did a GBA game based on the 07 movie so its not like it needed to be based off the 87 cartoon in particular.
That said I do think there's some lessons to be learned from the 87 series if they ever want to do something like the opening animation of the game. That captured the sheer energy and fun of the old cartoon without the weird filler of the show and jokes that fall flat.
I'd do something like the Batman vs Tmnt movie
Still a little cartoonish but with on screen murder
Like IDW or the Nick cartoon, but without their flaws.
Splinter is hamato Yoshi. He fled to new york after trouble with the Foot clan, and was then mutated by a canister of mutagen lost off a truck transporting it for Krang, forcing him to go underground.
Shredder isn't the head of the foot clan: He's the head of the new york branch, having sought out the position to chase after Splinter after he fled Japan (with splinter's mutation causing him to drop off the radar completely, robbing Shredder of the ability to exact his revenge that he's seeking).
The actual head of the foot clan is still in Japan, and Shredder technically still answers to them. Moreover, he's actually more skilled than Shredder.
Krang is a rogue ultrom criminal that's seeking to take over earth as he has other planets, with an army of mutants and rock soldiers in his base in Dimension X (A a pocket dimension he utilizes to hide from Ultrom authority's seeking to capture/arrest him).
The Turtles end up coming into conflict with him as he secretly attempts to setup plans to overthrow the world's government's and take over (With a scorched earth fallback plan of a giant mutagen bomb if all else fails).
During this, the shredder becomes aware of the turtles and Hamato yoshi, but he ALSO becomes aware of Krang's technology.
He then seeks to parlay an alliance with Krang in order to gain this technology to both destroy the turtles and overthrow his boss back in Japan.
Shredder then acts as Krang's second in command on earth, but clearly intending to betray him later on.
Eventually Shredder will assault the headquarters of the Foot clan's leader in japan with an army of Mutants/robots and overthrow him, though he'll get shittalked by the Prior leader about how he's throw away his honor as a ninja by relying on gimmicks and technology/mutagen rather than actual Ninja skill, and then get wounded by the Ninja leader before he dies.
To avoid his death, Shredder will mutate himself, becoming the super shredder.
It'll then climax with Krang ordering Shredder to carry out whatever his final plan is to take over the world, Shredder will betray him, and Krang will seemingly kill shredder and decide to just mutagen bomb the world out of spite and mutate the crap out of everyone, leading to the turtles being forced to stop him.
The ultroms will finally show up, arrest Krang and frickoff, with shredder turning up alive after this and taking over the role as final villain. Lacking the support of the rest of the Foot after the fiasco of almost destroying the world and without krang, shredder will lack the power to carry out any actual "Big" plans anymore, and will just go on a suicidal final attack against the turtles and splinter to kill them all, ending the series with his defeat.
>So what would the perfect adaption of TMNT be like?
I'm genuinely enjoying the '03 show. When should I stop?
Season 5's ending, but then watch the end of season 7 and Turtles Forever. There is some lost steam after Season 3 but 4 expands the story
The common mantra of 03 going to shit for the last few seasons is honestly overstated. Fast Forward and back to the sewer are only 13 episodes each, and its still a ~155 episode series. So the last 26 episodes being write offs really isn't that bad of a track record.
Season 3-5 do have some bloat that comes with the universe being so built up, so your mileage may vary in that regard.
Does Usagi Yojimbo ever make an appearance?
A few times. His first appearance is especially a fun surprise. There's also an entire episode that takes place in his universe.
How do the turtles get the money to order pizza? Loose change?
>So what would the perfect adaption of TMNT be like?
There's no such thing as a perfect adaptation. Just make one that's giving kids what they want to see, while having good animation for the action scenes. Lots of power of brotherhood, etc. Mostly just things to avoid, like no adding more friendly OCs, etc.
I kind of expect the next pointless mutant drama in IDW will be someone deciding to reverse mutant city with a plot device and then use on the turtles for drama. Turning them human.
Maybe with gratingly pointless Leo/Karai shipping.
wouldn't reverse mutating the turtles just make them normal animals?
No such thing as a perfect adaptation since everybody want's something different from TMNT. Personally I'd like to see someone try to do pic related.