Looks we are saved X-bros soon the krakoa era will be nothing but a bad dream thanks to this recton The X-Men will be fixed. Given Moira's betrayal I would say this is exactly the fate she deserves let the b***h die. I only wish they had come with this solution sooner shit what a fricking mess.
They said this could happen so rest assured that it won’t happen.
I for think it will happen this is the solution to the krakoa era let it happen for frick's sake.
The damage is already irreparable
No it is not that's why recton exist granted things would be far from perfect but I right now I would take this recton at least things would be better then they currently are,
>go from an interesting status quo to something objectively shittier
Why are X-Men fans like this?
Mutant kids in mutant training school going on adventures is CASH MONEY. It's even more relevant now when every kid is obsessed with school setting pseudo Hogwarts shows. Go back to what works.
well if you have a better solution then let's hear it
>interesting status quo
why are people who only read comic news headlines and clickbait like this
I read X-Men throughout the 2000s up to now, going back to something like Whedon's status quo or fricking Aaron's is an absolutely fricking awful idea and anyone who wants that should be shot
I've never seen anyone actually articulate a reason why Krakoa wasn't an interesting idea. Sure there were flaws but it took the franchise in a new direction when it was floundering and provided a look at another way The Dream could go. Please provide actual reasons why it wasn't.
It was a rehash of Morrison/Utopia era themes that required the entire MU setting to bend over backwards to prop it up and was built entirely on retcons and writing everyone OOC.
>I've never seen anyone actually articulate a reason why Krakoa wasn't an interesting idea.
They do. You just chose to ignore them
Krakoa was a great idea. The problem was that it was Hickman's great idea. When Hickman decided to frick off to Stackexchange with his based Latino homies, nobody knew how to run Hickman's ship.
And oh boy, I can't wait to see them sabotage him in the Ultimate Universe in the exact same way all over again.
Gillen spending his run demonstrating all the ways Hickman's premise was terrible was good though.
Krakoa wasn't that great an idea once you actually tried to sit down and parse the sheer amount of shit he was retconning out, it's just that the previous era was such a shambling husk of nothing that Hickman scuttling every book and putting the X-books under his unified vision looked far more interesting and competent by comparison.
Hickman's entire MO is massive sweeping changes to a property through extensive retcons, introducing about 400 characters and plotlines, having 99.5% of of those plots and characters getting dropped or fizzling out, flubbing the landing when he doesn't bail part of the way through, then blaming everyone else for ruining his vision. For frick's sake, Krakoa wasn't even an X-Men pitch originally, it was a goddamn Legion of Superheroes story arc.
Is that what happens in East of West?
>Krakoa wasn't even an X-Men pitch originally, it was a goddamn Legion of Superheroes story arc.
people say this but I have no idea how it maps over. Maybe with the space shit he had planned but never got to.
The Legion ironically is maybe the one superhero franchise where death has meaning
It's Hickman; it doesn't have to map over because he'll just retcon the setting and change everyone's character to make it fit.
You can see how certain characters probably would have slotted into it. Xavier's role 100% would have been Brainiac 5 while I imagine Moira would have been someone like Dream Girl, a (semi) face turned Glorith, or an OC.
I guess if you replace the X-Men getting wiped out with the Legion getting rebooted it might work? I just don't see it and think people are speculating a lot just based on what we know of Hickman.
Also he's always been an X-Fan, I think he even said they were his favorite Marvel stuff when he took on Avengers. He came back bc he was a fan as much as anything, it wasn't just money.
>He came back bc he was a fan as much as anything, it wasn't just money.
He came back because he was given carte blanche with the franchise and got paid to make deviant art tier fanfiction
Right and it was bc it was a franchise he cared about. Pretty sure there's a quote about how X-Men and G.O.D.S. where the only Marvel ideas he had left he wanted to do
>I think a lot of the other writers were completely correct in their attempts to blow it up
What? Hickman said when it was time to move to the next act in his plan everyone wanted to keep playing with Krakoa so he said OK and changed course
Not exactly.
Someone here posted a brief synopsis of what Hickman's Legion pitch was:
5 goes evil again ala Scarlet Witch because Hickman was a huge fan of the story where Brainiac 5 turns evil/frames Ultra Boy for the death of his ex-girlfriend and tries to frame Wildfire with a robot version of Wildfire to take the fall for framing Ultra Boy and then says "frick it" and tries to kill Earth with a WMD called Omen he created to kill everyone.
>>Mon-El's convoluted origin would be "resolved" by revealing he's just a test tube creation of Brainiac 5 and all of the time travel/lead poisoning/Phantom Zone crap was fake memories Brainy put into everyone's heads to hide Mon-El's true origin.
>>The founding Legion members (Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl) would die stopping Brainiac 5
Sensory Deprivation Lad; a character that was teased for the TMK run but never saw print
the Legion Academy and using it to explain away all of the new characters Hickman would create for the book and the team.
>>Make Dream Girl trans like the Supergirl version
Basically, Hickman wanted to do Avengers Disassembled to the Legion. Blow up the franchise, irreversibly ruin several characters, and build an INO version on the ashes.
Why do so many creators, who finally get the chance to work on beloved franchises, only see it as a chance for them to ruin it on purpose.
>Basically, Hickman wanted to do Avengers Disassembled to the Legion. Blow up the franchise, irreversibly ruin several characters, and build an INO version on the ashes.
The Legion has gone through a lot of shit over the last... thirty years? At least thirty. The fact that they dodged this bullet is astounding.
because nobody really cares aobut legion outside of some old nerds. with that said, hickman's pitch was terrible
>outside of some old nerds
Fair.
anon hackman doesnt care about prior characterization look what he did to moira
>For frick's sake, Krakoa wasn't even an X-Men pitch originally, it was a goddamn Legion of Superheroes story arc.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>Why was changing the book from a group of outcasts hoping to change and integrate with a world that hates and fears them into a book about self wake ethno state orgy islands a bad Idea
>an interesting status quo
That was Morrison's twenty years ago. Krakoa is not an interesting status quo.
I liked Morrison's X-Men but the status quo it worked from, the aftermath of Genosha, wasn't very interesting at all.
I use "Morrison" as a shorthand. I like the "mutants as an emerging culture" thing which I'll always feel was the next natural step of the The Metaphor™ with mutants becoming more a part of society and having an effect on it. It's also broad enough that it fit for anything from racial minorities to gays to even just general outsiders who find their subculture going mainstream and the set up allowed for a wide variety on the types of books that could be published. Was it all good? No, but I think it was definitely the type of forward thinking set up that the X-Men in the new millennium needed, especially coming off of the shitshow that was the post-Onslaught period.
Krakoa could have been interesting but they tied it too much on being an ethnic thing and Mutie Israel with everyone, good or bad, living on the island and allowed to be an X-Man and 99% of the characters being written OOC and then dumb shit like Arakko and Mars. Only good part is that it brought back all of the characters needlessly depowered/killed after House of M but that's damning with faint praise.
The idea of "mutant subculture" is one of those ideas that seems more interesting as a concept than an actual thing in the comic books, especially since I've seen zero writers even try and attempt to define it beyond having the vague trappings of something like californian queer subculture where everyone is treated as special and unique and beautiful in their own ways. And notice I didn't include casual hookup culture in that, cause the X-men books were horny as frick ever since Claremont got involved.
District X gave it a very distinctive urban working class vibe.
Care to give any examples then? Genuinely curious of that
Milligan/Allred's stuff was about mutants as celebrities (as basically Network: X-Men Edition). NYX was even more of a gritty urban thing. Academy X was a teen drama book so you got to see mutant youth culture with bits and pieces of other things brought up (Dryad mentioned once that her dad designed most of the mansion's landscaping or something to that effect as he was a popular mutant designer).
Honestly sounds more interesting than the shit we got from Krakoa, thanks!
It could have been fleshed out more but there were always little teases to more going on. Like Evangeline Whedon, the lawyer the mutie lawyer who handles mutie legal issues for a mutie rights group.
Also she's a hot goth who turns into a dragon for some reason even though none of those things have anything to do with being a lawyer.
Honestly, you think a goddamn lawyer would have been super damn useful once Krakoa started making demands on the world, considering Evangeline there was nowhere to be found when they had to hire out She-Hulk to keep them all from being sued to hell and back by the planet
>once Krakoa started making demands on the world
see this is the point where the rest of humanity should have said 'aight u can have it senpai' and fricked off to space
Would have been a more interesting story that way, but Marvel does what it does
2000s X-Men should have basically been treated as an imprint where you could really go all in on that stuff. District X as a mix of police procedural and law drama for instance. But it was nice that the set up allowed for the bits we did get and made for a more interesting world.
The more X-Men comics focus on The Metaphor the worse they tend to be, this whole era was where X-Men comics crossed the Rubicon in that regard. It was no longer broad enough to apply to outsiders or teens, it was absolutely 100% a racial or gay thing, and it marked the beginning of a gradual shift away from the notion of "evil mutants" that the X-Men existed to fight towards "the mutant community vs the humans", with one of Morrison's final stories outright declaring Magneto and his ideology to be outdated, irrelevant and meaningless to the new generation.
Nobody even tried defining what the "mutant culture" was other than the mutants constantly being smug and annoying about their culture and how popular it was. I get that some people liked some of the attempts at worldbuilding in the side books, but frankly there comes a point where you may as well just be writing about actual blacks or gays instead of mutants, because it's of no interest to anyone else.
The Metaphor didn't need to be "miggers are oppressed for all time by flatskkkans" but it's too entrenched into the setting to get rid of so going from "everything is always going to suck to "everything is becoming normalized and looking up" is way better.
We talked about it in a recent Claremont thread but yeah. The metaphor really needs to be secondary. There were always stories that leaned more heavily into it but they were spread out generally. Not every arc was trying to be God Loves.
There's obviously a point mid way between those extremes that allows for the X-Men to continue to exist as a superhero book, and allows mutant villains to continue to exist, and for there to not be a "mutant community" that's a mostly-unified bloc of NPCs. A mid point where the mutants aren't constantly whining about extinction and genocide, and aren't smug arrogant buttholes constantly gloating about how they're "winning" either. That mid point existed and it worked for about 20 years, but from the 2000s onwards Marvel have insisted on lurching directly from one extreme end of the scale to the other and back.
Things not being so bad for mutants is fine, so long as things aren't so good that the villains have no reason to be villains anymore, and mutants shouldn't ever be so numerous or so ascendant that it's affecting the rest of Marvel in ways that other books have to acknowledge. The Morrison years were going too far in that regard and so is Krakoa.
the problem with mutant society is that they're less genetically similar than people who have the same color hair.
>Nobody even tried defining what the "mutant culture" was other than the mutants constantly being smug and annoying about their culture and how popular it was.
My issue with "mutant culture" is that the way the comics present it is plainly not how subcultures work in the real world. Like, being gay in America is way different than being gay in Japan, just like a gay Japanese man is gonna be different than a gay German.
Mutant culture sucks because there's never any nuance or color to it. There's always one generic culture, the one the heroes follow. Hell, vidya is a huge subculture, and even among gamers there's massive splits about what interests people and what they play (or disdain).
mutants being self inserts for twitter weirdos whose idea of a utopia is a place where they can have gay sex, abandon their children, and do drugs while the whole world thinks they are brave heroes isn't interesting.
Sounds like a utopia to me
If you're a part of it, sure. The average reader, being human, will identify with humans and root for Orchis
No, average readers want mutants to stomp orchis out
You're not the average reader
That's like saying I will identify with nazi Germany because I'm white
Given where we are, that anon probably did mean exactly this.
No, frankly the average reade only read the first year at best, dismissed the X-men as a bunch of freaky cultists and Orchis as a bunch of jobbers, and absolutely disregarded their existence until now. Say whatever you will about the school shit, it's at least a format that the average reader actually WANTS to read the X-men in, not any of the Dominion bullcrap or the "Hashtag Resist" shit that's currently going on in the books
> it's at least a format that the average reader actually WANTS to read the X-men in
It's 2024 not 1994, nobody has wanted to read X-Men at all for decades. RETVRN will not work, Krakoa at least tried something interesting.
>Krakoa at least tried something interesting.
No it just made X-Men plain bad.
No it didn't, it made them compelling to read. And on top of that, Logan wasn't the fricking face of mutantdom anymore, thank god.
Explain why.
On the surface, you'd think so, just because it frames the X-men as the winners instead of the scrappy underdog. Thing is that in hindsight everything outside of the Dominion crap is literally recycled from another X-men book. Mutant-only island, that's been done several times. Massive retcons via mutant traveling to the past to "fix history", also been done. Bad end tier timelines where mutants ruling the world dooms the galaxy, did that too. All Hickman really did was just toss the protocols of Zion into the mix, cause otherwise it's just "the X-men do everything they can to avert their totally imminent genocide by the robots" again for the billionth time in a row.
Average reader, not average X-men fan. The kind that still thinks the X-men are a superhero team and not just a bunch of jackoffs whining about racism before curbstomping cancer victims.
So you agree that it remixes existing elements while adding in interesting new elements such as "it frames the X-men as the winners instead of the scrappy underdog"? Sounds interesting to me. What exactly do you want the franchise to RETVRN to?
I wouldn't call that remixing, I'd call that "regurgitating". And me personally, I don't want the X-men to return to anything. Hell, if the writers want them to be their own race so bad, I'd tell them to just pull the plug and launch the X-men into space and make them an even gayer furry Star Trek, just so people can forget about them.
Dude, it means what it means. Wolverine once punched an X-man villain who was a cancer survivor into a coma. And you seem to not consider normies still think that the shit they see in Deadpool or the Fox X-men movies depicting the X-men as a bunch of weirdos sitting in a mansion going on adventures is accurate to the comics, rather than what people like us actually know them to be. THAT'S who this change is marketed to.
>Wolverine once punched an X-man villain who was a cancer survivor into a coma.
Aside from the laughable idea that cancer victims can't be pieces of shit, what story are you even referring to?
>And you seem to not consider normies still think that the shit they see in Deadpool or the Fox X-men movies depicting the X-men as a bunch of weirdos sitting in a mansion going on adventures is accurate to the comics
They're not average readers, dipshit. Those are called moviegoers.
eXogenetic, man
>They're not average readers, dipshit. Those are called moviegoers.
I'm implying that the average reader doesn't actually pay attention to X-men, dumbass, much like the average reader thinks Peter Parker and Miles Morales are best pals.
>I'm implying that the average reader doesn't actually pay attention to X-men
If they're reading Marvel, they pay enough attention to know that's horseshit. Again, you're arguing on behalf of someone that doesn't exist.
>If they're reading Marvel, they pay enough attention
Let's not lie to each other like that. If they did, randos wouldn't be still calling them a mutant sex cult despite them being gone from the island for over a year by now.
>If they did, randos wouldn't be still calling them a mutant sex cult despite them being gone from the island for over a year by now.
Yeah the call is coming from inside the house on that one, people like you spread that shit and then get all defensive when people point out it's heavily misinterpreted.
Nah, nobody misinterpreted anything. Shit was explicitly meant to be the X-men forming a cult around the concept of mutantdom. But it was done that way specifically for the books denounce the idea that it's the direction the X-men franchise should be taking, the idea that the mutants are alone in their struggles and should act that way. Hell, Professor X outright said he regretted ever agreeing to all the shit Moira and Erik made him agree to everything he did, even though he still felt he had to do it out of fear of what would happen if he didn't. I admit that I'm still mildly confused why people keep insisting the X-men were never a cult, when the reality is the books were going "Yes, they were being lead to acting like that, and this shit isn't how the X-men naturally are supposed to act".
Because people want them to keep acting like that
>man with a history of shady actions and the ability to control minds complains he was bullied into doing bad things
Just your typical X-men story, really
>The kind that still thinks the X-men are a superhero team and not just a bunch of jackoffs whining about racism before curbstomping cancer victims.
This person does not exist. If you're actually reading comics instead of just seeing random panels posted out of context on twitter you're already very aware of who the X-Men are. Also, the frick is the "cancer survivor" non-sequiter even supposed to mean?
>Say whatever you will about the school shit, it's at least a format that the average reader actually WANTS to read the X-men in,
No, not really.
>freaky cultists
When did Cinemaphile become populated with suburban soccer moms?
They outright tried to invent a mutant religion worshiping the concept of mutation, dude. As stupid and narcissistic as superheroes can get, that's the point we should be acknowledging they're forming their own weirdo cult, you know?
>MY LORD THEY ARENT CHRISTIANS
My surprise is you thinking anyone would give a shit. Of course their new society would come with new beliefs, but the OH MY GOD THEY'RE CULTISTS angle is hilarious.
Sorry I want my heroes to act heroic and not l ike a cult who only cares about others In the cult.
It's a good thing that never happened with Krakoa then.
Yes it did lmao. They don't care about anyone who isn't a mutant
The X-Men literally saved the world multiple times in the first year of Krakoa and then kept doing it, what the frick are you smoking?
it's very funny Cyclops whole arc has been "Krakoa is weird we need to stay heroes for good PR" and everyone on Cinemaphile who hates Krakoa ignores it
Oh boy my most disliked x-men is the only one who isn't a mutant supremacist wonderful
>most disliked X-Man is cyclops
>also has shit opinions
Like clockwork
>why don't you like someone who cheated on both his wives
what was that issue where Jean dropped Scott again
kek
They can't let the world be destroyed because half of them keep their stuff there. To most Krakoans/Arrakans saving humans was just an added benifit to saving themselves. Their superiority complex got so bad that the only way to fix Beast is to kill him and have an Avengers-era clone that ignores the past four decades of his writing.
You can, at best, argue this is the case for the people of Arakko, but trying to say that's true for Krakoa is just fricking stupid and you know it.
The mutants had their stupid gates where they could just frick off to the moon or otherworld or Arrako. Bad writing made them so mary-sue and had them winning so hard that they had to have absolutely terrible writing in order to set them up to fail. Even for some big event, why would they have every living mutant (outside of Arrakoans) on the island at the same time with nobody left in any of their other strongholds? And somehow Orchis coud magically hijack their portal network without them knowing it. And Xavier goes full moron exiling every mutant on earth in order to save a few hundred humans attending the event. And Orchis killed the human hostages anyway. And no live footage of what really happened was broadcast so everyone just believes Orchis, who now suddenly operates as a SHIELD/SWORD/HAMMER proxy.
Anon Xavier didn't send the mutants away to save those at the event he did it because they were gonna make anyone taking krakoan meds ape out which was millions of people
Oh yeah, I forgot about that extra bit of insanity. You'd think with gosh-darn Alpha-plus mind readers and precogs they'd have seen some pretty massive red flags that any of this shit was coming.
Yeah it's almost like there was a specific rule about precogs that Krakoa had
And the one time it was broken for Destiny she was getting fricked over by all the possible timelines in her head.
That only works for dumbass current X-Desk writers who forget half the X-Men they featured in their books are precogs & time travellers such as Cable, Exodus, Apocalypse, Legion, Tempo, etc on top of the bullshit power copy/reality warpers types like Synch, Hope, Jamie Braddock, and Proteus on top of that.
>It Gets Worse because Krakoa was rife with so much time travel/elseworld bullshit if might as well be a What-If Omnibus
Kitty time travelling with Tempo & the Marauders
Wolverine and his two Terminator Rip Off stories. One where he saves Xavier and his ancestors Days of Future Past (Movie)/Terminator 2 style and the other where he's a Terminator 1 notPhalanx sent to kill Moira.
Cable's entire bullshit in general
Quentin Quire's into the Beastoverse nonsense
AvXvE pretty much ending in a lol this matters but not really Gillen shitfit mini-loop/reset
The entire Sins of Sinister shitshow
And now this third Terminator 1 Ripoff plot with killing/de-powering baby Moira.
>But Muh STATUS QUO, IT BROKE NEW GROUND
>When this is just Nate Grey's Animal Farm 2.0 bullshit with a chaser of basic b***h Bohemian Grove garbage.
Nothing was original in Krakoa and it was one of the most derivative slackjawed slop of series that the X-Men had the displeasure of being attached to.
The Status quo argument has always been the biggest bad faith argument. A lot of stories might change things up, a lot of ideas are original. The problem, however, is that these ideas aren't GOOD and they've been executed even worse. And this goes for beyond just x-men. It's the ultimate get out of argument free card. Fans just hate change. And all change is good.
>And all change is good
One More Day is one example of a change that sucked eggs on every level, and I'm not even a fan of Spider-Man/Mary Jane
You have to be a special kind of moron to think that making a super hero making deals with the devil is a good idea. I've seen more respectful fanfic.
I thought precogs were b& from Krakkkoa.
he would know that if he actually read the books
>in b4 i don't read coping
>Bans precogs from Krakoa cause they could learn a secret
>Gets completely blindsided by the next mutant genocide
Man, Mutants suck as this "survival of the fittest" thing. It's almost as if mutations in the wild a generally a detriment.
Destiny knew something bad was gonna happen, she had rogue hide manifold for a reason
>nightcrawler being catholic is bad
>nightcrawler worshiping our made up cult religion good
you know the spark stuff only stayed within spurrier's book right?
2016 when everyone moved from /r/the_donald
Bp
What a fricking cop-out
I doubt it happens.
Given the solicts for Rise of the Powers of X #3 I think it may just happen by the sound of things. Either that or this some pretty impressive bait
Solicit Synopsis:
THE REAL END IS NEVER BEGINNING!
The past, present and future of Krakoa all rests in a trigger finger. The scenario you prayed would never happen plays out as two series that are one move toward a crash that will reverberate outside the universe…
It's likely bait. Moira might get shot, but it won't reset the timeline.
Thanks to some teasers in the most recent Timeless comic, we know Magneto will be leading the X Men and its tied to someone called Prisoner X. If the timeline resets, it would not make sense for Mags to lead the X-MEN.
>It's likely bait. Moira might get shot, but it won't reset the timeline
Didn't this already happen in Inferno? Fool me once...
To be fair, she was shot to be depowered in Inferno. The plan here is shoot to kill, but I don't think it works out like Prof.X and people here hope.
>its tied to someone called Prisoner X.
XORN IS BACK BAY-BEE
I remember reading somewhere that Prisoner X is Professor X who willingly locked himself away in the Westchester mansion's danger room. No one can trust him because Mr. Sinister is still in his mind.
I think that's speculation bc the art for his cell looked like the movie Cerebro and he had a helmet
Moira when she sees my depowering GUN
>the scenario you prayed would never happen
oh no. The Spice Girls are having a 30th anniversary comeback tour?!?
How does this work from a continuity standpoint? All those Krakoa X-men crossovers with other books now have to be written somehow. How are they gonna deal with that?
Were there any actual crossovers of significance? Seems like you can do a soft retcon of those and just never mention them again, and if for some reason a future story requires referencing one you can just make up whatever bullshit explanation you want at that point.
They're not. That's why it's not happening.
Krakow us erased from canon and anything important outside the Xbooks still happened in broad strokes without there having been a Krakoa. IE mutants still helped fight Knull, Eternals still tried to kill mutants, and Emma married Tony to help him fight not Elon Musk
Remember how One More Day said Peter and Mary Jane were never married and they just said "things changed in the timeline" without really going into it
I assume that's happening here too
It will probably be more explicit in terms of explaining the broad strokes, because Brevoort, Quesada, Wacker, Slott, etc made a bunch of statements about how everything from 1987-2007 was now "fair game" to ignore and say no longer happened that pissed off a LOT of people given the implications (IIRC at one point, Wacker implied they were throwing out the entire Clone Saga before sales got so fricking bad that Slott had to do sequels to the Ben Reilly Spider-Man era and bring Kaine back to bait longtime fans to buy the book).
That said, there are only a couple of moments they have to explicitly reference:
1. Magneto and the X-Men being part of the battle against Knull during King In Black
2. Some form of Judgement Day happened where Druig decided X-Men needed to be killed for "being deviants", the Avengers inadevertedly turning their Celestial home into a world ending threat, everyone being judged by said Celestial, Druig being removed from power in favor of Starfox, and Sersei and Thena sacrificing themselves to stop the Celestial and maybe handwave Mr Sinister being captured during the story, because he was raising an army of dead mutants including the Hellions, Thunderbird, and Destiny to attack the X-Men with.
and Spider-Man and freaking Scalphunter rescuing MJ from some anti-mutant bigots
Pryor coming back and aligning with Venom and Ben Reilly to do Inferno 2.0
Remember how Namor used to be married to Marrina, the ugliest thing in the sea? And then he murdered her with a sword that eats souls and then he eventually freed her soul from the sword and she came back as a snake in Dark Reign and he killed her again, this time by drowning her, and then a couple years later she came back again, and she's presumably still out there?
No? Well maybe you should.
Maybe we shouldn't let overly complicated character-destroying bullshit like double uxoricide go without comment. Maybe owning an island where you attempt to coerce and manipulate the entire world with your superpowers, which is a definite supervillain thing to do, or just being part of that supervillain thing, should tarnish your character forever. Namor has to live with being an antihero because he's well known to be an butthole. Why not the X-Men? You know given the opportunity they'd pull this exact same shit again. They're a weird militia from a compound out in the hills.
>Marrina, the ugliest thing in the sea
Aw, Marrina is cute.
Is Namorita still dead?
Alive via time travel bullshit again
Most likely what will happen is they will shoot her with the depowering gun, thus ensuring that she returns to the original status quo and soft resetting the timeline to where Krakoa still happened but different
>Meanwhile was already Moira was shot with the gun literally a year ago during Inferno
This homosexual doesn't read comics
>not paying enough attention to realize the whole plot is about going to shoot Moira as a child
This homosexual just doesn't read period
Frick off Gwencuck
Learn to read dipshit this not a spider-man thread.
have a nice day, you will never be an X-gay
Go back and shit up the Spider-Flop threads stupid polak
Being a marvel writer dealing with all this shit must be pain
None of these characters can be redeemed at this point. Scott, Jean and Wolverine are unsalvagable characters after their throupling experience.
Scott and Jean have been unsalvagable since early X-Factor.
Wtf shitty dialogue is this?
Why did Hickman bail? I have no idea what's going on
a meme edit of Bendis
Basically, he was going to end the setting involving Krakoa after the first two years, but Marvel told him in no uncertain terms he couldn't do that because it was selling so well, so instead of arguing it he decided to just rewrite that act to fit Marvel's interests and left the X-books afterwards and never looked back. It's kind of ironic because according to him, he was the one who had to keep arguing with the other writers to not write plots involving the mutant haven blowing up RIGHT AWAY.
Even when he was in control a lot of his output felt like filler to his next major change to the status quo. I think a lot of the other writers were completely correct in their attempts to blow it up because they understood that cape comics are inherently action and adventure stories, so having a status quo where mutants are the undisputed masters of the world effortlessly styling on their enemies from their island paradise is boring. Ultimately if you're running a half dozen interconnected titles you can't expect everyone to just wait around for two years for something exciting to happen and then it ends.
He wanted to end Krakoa relatively quickly but the other writers were too enamored with the setting so he rewrote things to end his run on Inferno and passed it over to Gillen to keep the train running for a bit longer.
Doesn't Moira treat Legion for a while in the main continuity? What happens with that if she dies at 12?
Also, spoil me on her betrayal? I stopped following x-books when Hickman bailed.
>it's a "mutants have a homeland hope another genocide doesn't happen and they end up back at the mansion whoops looks like there's a genocide lets go back to the mansion"
same
krakoa is flawed but man I was hoping this will be a longer thing at least, its a depressing cycle deadpool is right about them always fricking dying or some shit
Something so unintentionally funny about the mental image of the X-Men just sitting quietly at the school, pretending the last 5 year's worth of content never happened
>mutants
Kang had to basically buck break Angel's bastard kids into teleporting everyone off the planet to get rid of the mutant problem. And even then it backfired on him as they blew up the Earth on the way off the planet just to spite him.
>back to the mansion
I refuse to believe that anyone who's read X-Men comics and not just watched the cartoon enjoys this. It's like Spider-Man going back to being a broke college student. It's just more of the same shit instead of moving forward
>i like the x-men being mutant supremacists who hate anyone who isn't a mutant
you're exactly the kind of person I was talking about
It's not that that's a good status quo, it's that it's preferable to krakoa. Ideally we'd get something both new and not shit.
>It's not that that's a good status quo, it's that it's preferable to krakoa
It absolutely is not, holy shit
Anon, cancelling all of the X-Men books, adaptations and merch forever and Disney just permanently burying and forgetting them as an IP is preferable to Krakoa.
Frankly, it's probably preferable to whatever they have planned next, too.
The reason why the cartoon works so well is because it's a smple formula:
>X-Men actually do hero shit
>mansion is the cool base and not so much a school going overboard with extremist propaganda, but a caretaker center for mutants confused of their powers
>slow, coasting character progression, easy sub-plots to anticipate
>everyone has their own personality other than "my victimhood"
>big baddies are truly big baddies, no exceptional bullshit
>big baddie gets plenty of screen time and shows up to take over the world, kill humanity or kill the heroes
>heroes fight the big baddie
>heroes eventually win, baddie tends to run away or get trapped in his own plot
>Wow X-Men are totally cool
>rinse and repeat
Remember when kids cartoons actually had grown adults as their heroes who often questions their place and meaning in a cruel world while exploring themes of humanity, faith pain and love. I do.
Imagine being so incompetent that your master plan is to kill a child. None of the aftermath of Krakoa would had happened if Emma, Mystique, Destiny weren't massive c**ts that led to Moria's death and a crazy robot with a copy of Moria's personality running around seeking vengeance for the betrayal.
>Emma
I'm so sick of that abominable roastie fricking witch...
>Mystique
>Destiny
>not being massive gigapettaexobyte akashic phaloanxdominion Omnibus Giantsized Annual#1 turboc**ts
You might as well ask to move the firmament one atom of hydrogen at a time.
Did Greg Land work on this issue? Those Moira panels are so obviously traced it's painful.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The problem isn't that they can or aren't fixing it. The problem is it should never have needed to be fixed in the first place. We wasted how many years on shit comics? Too many. And no matter what they do now, I don't trust things to be better.
>I've said it before, I'll say it again
Why do you say this as if anyone cares about you?
Some people itt are mad at Krakoa ending but Gillen has pretty much been carrying the x-line single-handedly for the past two years and he's leaving after he wraps it up with a bow. What good is a status quo if there's only like one or two writers tops who can write good stories in it?
People on this board act like the X-men straight-up let humans die because the first year focused on the island and mutant stories and that's when they stopped reading them. Why would the stories focus on anything else when the whole point is to create interest in the new status quo?
What storylines came from this that weren't
>mongoloid infighting
>sentinels
>mr sinister is an autist
"Genocide's a-okay if it's the Brood"
Which isn't necessarily wrong, it's just kind of ironic really
If they use this to reset reality then does this mean Cyclops and Jean and Wolverine never fricked?
Because retconning the throuple should be the first thing on the agenda.
Then fixing Beast.
Sorry anon, chances are the X-books will keep dumping on Beast.
Even if Krakoa does get entirely wiped away, everyone who got gaywashed during those years will never be allowed to be straight again, and that includes Scott and Logan being half-gay. The best you can hope for is Jean/Logan being retconned away.
Yeah, get fricked self-inserting weirdos, Marvel wants X-Men to sell with non-suicidal people again.
shit bait for a dying thread
>t. avid twitter user
>xhitter
swing & a miss there bud
wanna try more shitty bait?
Failing to pass is a constant in your life.
like clockwork
your mother should have swallowed you
Uh-huh. Try your hardest not remember this day when you tie the knot.
nta, but generally if they do it right they won't
i'm not enamored with troony lingo tho
jesus, is it 1982?
God, I wish. There were good Marvel comics then.
Based and correct opinion. If they stop pandering to homosexuals and trannies with their "your degeneracy is actually cool and good" bullshit they might actually sell a book.
>make something utterly fricking terrible for years
>timey-wimey erase it after it does more harm than good to keep it going
People wonder why no one wants to read Marvel and DC when they do this shit all the goddamned time.
>he thinks the first plan we've seen stated will work
lmao
>x-men plotting to time travel so they can murder a child to erase the genocide they brought on themselves
so what did moira supposedly do that xgays will cling to and cry about for the next decade like they did with scarlet witch?
none of what's happening is really Moira's fault so she's not Scarlet Witch-tier. The plan to kill her is because the timeline resets if she dies after her mutant power activates at 13, and it has since been abused to let an AI with the mind of Mr. Sinister become a god (but it was also used to create Krakoa in the first place)
Wanda is innocent. It's Bendis fault.
It's just the Terminator plot, her only real crime is being the centerpiece to Hickman's retcon based storyline
I hate that they had to char assassinate my cool Scottish soccer mom in the first place. R.I.P, darlin'.
Everybody in this verse has been so retconned and shat on and subjected to editorial HELL, that I wish they'd just kill off 90% of mutants again and keep it that way. Frick the whole idea of an X-Nation, it's too far gone.
you were my bestest friend until the end
remember when Hank slapped Jan?
this ain't frickin going away, X-bitches
This is why manga is eating American comics lunch. The Krakoa storyline was shit but to completely retcon it out? What was the point?
Stone Ocean ended with a universal retcon that basically made the preceding 15 years completely pointless.
To get X-Men to sell again, because Disney finally got tired of the woke shitheads running the company into the ground and pissing off the readership and getting mainstream attention for their bullshit in the form of making Captain America a Nazi and half the classic Avengers team (Vision, Wanda, Thor) Nazi collaborators as part of a massive "changing of the guard" to irrevocably install a gaggle of widely reviled minority characters as the new face of Marvel and the new versions of Cap, Iron Man, Thor, etc.
See also Marvel finally firing Slott and putting Nick Spencer on Amazing and allowing him to bring back Peter and MJ's relationship to boost sales of Amazing Spider-Man after Slott and BND outright killed sales for the franchise.
>allowing him to bring back Peter and MJ's relationship
yeah that really worked out
I'm sorry but didn't Xavier really think this through? Wouldn't killing Moira even destroy the X-Men as well as Krakoa. Didn't she, before all this, have a positive effect in the team's emergence, or at least its stability? I mean didn't she influence other X-Men Teams? Didn't she influence certain members of the team in their character development and stabilities? Wouldn't killing Moria destroy all that?
the threat they're trying to stop is universal-tier, the possibility of the X-Men not existing is relatively minor on the scale of possible consequences
>didn't she influence other X-Men Teams? Didn't she influence certain members of the team in their character development and stabilities? Wouldn't killing Moria destroy all that?
She took care of Wolfsbane or Rahne would be dead today.
She was the one who assisted Xavier with the New Mutants.
Used to babysit the mansion for a couple years while Chuck was away.
Was one of the best human allies the X-Men ever had, particularly because of her tech and resources.
So imagine what things be without that? Without her. It would literally change the timeline... fricking again!
yeah, but Sinister wouldn't be able to abuse her powers to become an abstract-level god
Yeah but in the end it didn't work out for him... him doing that was... instrumental to the develop of all things.
yes, instrumental to the Sinister AI becoming a Dominion, keep up. Without Moira resetting the timeline, Sinister can't make the Red Diamond timeline and Enigma can't absorb his Dominion attempt.
That what I meant by "instrumental in the develop of all things"... I didn't say who's development. But in the end we are guarantee that the X-Men will develop out of this too.
the plan to kill Moira isn't even going to work, the solution will probably just be Jean Phoenix'ing up and kicking Enigma's ass
Also speaking of Rahne, how come we haven't had a moment between the two right now? Will Moira kill her or try to "cure" her
The best we got of Moira meeting her own son that one time was telling him to his face she never loved him, it's probably for the better they didn't have Rahne meet with her
She didn't love Proteus because Proteus was evil from the beginning. And when he was killed she tried to close him in hopes that she'd have her son back again that wouldn't pose a danger to the planet.
*clone
Xavier hasn't thought things out, but Moira is likely surviving the assassination attempt or it won't happen at all
Keep in mind, all we know is that after Orchis is dealt with, Magneto is leader of the X Men and there's someone called Prisoner X they're keeping an eye on. This could mean many things.
It's possible that Krakoa still exists, but it's not the main setting.
>after Orchis is dealt with, Magneto is leader of the X Men
Welp, here we go again.
Do you think Xavier poisoned Moira? One moment she becomes human, healthy, then a little while later she has cancer? A cancer made from Krakoan spores? That can't be a coincidence. What if Xavier had that put in her so that she wouldn't become a liability.
You know I had the craziest thought. Thinking about that, and thinking what Magneto said to Storm about fearing a good man, like Xavier. What if Xavier created bioweapon or a poison that effects humans, gives them cancer, they turn to Krakoa to save them, everybody accepts mutants?
we'll never know what the hell was suppose to happen because Hickman left. My assumption was Chuck and Mags (or possibly just Cypher acting on his own because some people think he was being set up to be future big bad) reached a point where they decided this was the "winning" timeline, which meant Moria's powers actually become a threat since everything gets undone if she dies. So they hatch a plan to lock the timeline. They rig up her safe room to expose her to chemicals that will give her cancer. Eventually the cancer would be "discovered". They use this to convince Moria that for the good of everyone she needs to be depowered and don't worry they'll resurrect her afterwards. Then they either A) actually bring her back, creating a new "savepoint" to work with, or B) leave her dead because she's too dangerous and they don't need her anymore.
But then she gets kidnaped and all the shit with Emma, Destiny and Mystique happens completely wrecking their original plan.
Moria was never supposed to turn evil had Hickman stayed around.
It was leaked what the original plan was:
>>The turning point for editorial fricking with Hickman and making Hickman quit was the Giant Size mini series; rather than a three part story where Storm gets poisoned and forcing everyone to cure her rather than just killing her and resurrecting her plus two pointless filler stories, we were supposed to get a plot where we find out Storm was pregnant with Black Panther's bastards and having to be moved to the World to give birth because some of BP's political rivals found out about the pregnancy and how she was hiding it from BP/wanting to kill the baby so that Wakanda and Krakoa don't become a joint political power house. Storm warehouses the kid after he's born in the World to keep him safe until she can find a way to let BP know about his kid and not get killed.
pays the Nasty Boys to poison Jean with a poison that causes not only instant death, but a violent shockwave that kills 99% of the Krakoan population and cripple any nearby psychics.
burns Krakoa and all of the backups save for the one in the Cerebro sword... which Moira uses to mercy kill Xavier and makes her the most wanted woman in the world since the sword is the only thing that can resurrect all of the dead mutants.
>>The hunt Moria (who remains good) gets derailed when Agent Brand's schemes all blow up in her face and suddenly all of the other alien worlds turn their back on mutantkind and Earth.
>>But first, Children of the Vault escape their prison and start straight up genociding the planet. Earth's heroes, the X-Men, and even Orchis have to unite to stop them.
>>At which point, when the COTV are defeated, Omega Sentinel wipes out Orchis and reveals that the Phalanx are the Phalanx dominion from Power of the X, come to destroy mutantkind and assimilate Earth.
help, Storm brings her now grown up son from the World and get him to get the Wakanda space empire to help save Earth, with the Phalanx defeated and her and BP's son being declared the Emperor of the Solar System.
Source for that? That's so stupid I can believe it.
People are critical because they care, and they don't like seeing beloved characters/setting warped beyond recognition without reason.
>People are critical because they care, and they don't like seeing beloved characters/setting warped beyond recognition without reason.
not really, the arguments are extremely ignorant and npc, as if it was a bot posting. constant whining about "not muh" is tiresome. either move on, or just don't read a book for a while. being a c**t about something all the time won't make anyone sympathizing with you. and let me tell you more: brevoort era will be hated for being same old shit, and the same people who want return to older status quo, will whine that the books are boring crap, because that's who you are
my guess is he doesnt kill her but he does stop her mutant power from ever activating leaving her human that way just krakoa stuff is retconned
man if only we had like CURES
stfw chainsaw hands joe, you just upset johhny five dicks for even suggesting someone might not want a mutant power
The only thing I like about Krakoa are the orgies, but not only did they not show it (espeically Jean explicitly getting double penetrated) and we didn't even get Nightcrawler having sex with Mystique!
I thought their whole schtick is that they're mutants and not humans so human laws, customs and culture are irrelevant hence the rampant sex, but WHY NO INCEST
Frick Xavier.
The Avengers, F4, Inhumans and every human hero in NYC all stop Orchis from existing and save the X-Men, we sweep another bad episode under the rug and everybody gets along and becomes buddies again.
Even if all the Non-X heroes did step in and managed to help out I bet the X-men would still find ways to get all pissy about.
What is the Krakoa era and why is it bad?
Mutant Israel but without the colonialism
>without the colonialism
until eventually
Mars doesn't count, there was actually no one living there unlike what Israel would like everyone to believe about Palestine
>Mars doesn't count, there was actually no one living there
Hickman and his crew just pretended there was nobody there, even Ewing's continuity autism failed him.
not only is Killraven an alternate universe, Busiek retconned the Martians to not be Martians in Avengers Forever like 20 years ago
>not only is Killraven an alternate universe
The Martian invasion of Earth was also part of the Guardians of the Galaxy's timeline, and was consistenly treated as a possible near-future event.
>Busiek retconned the Martians to not be Martians in Avengers Forever like 20 years ago
>retconned the Martians to not be from Mars
Was he drunk when he wrote that? It's nothing definitive anyway, all it means is Killraven doesn't know if that's where they're really from. Nothing that would have prevented them being there to repel the mutant invaders who took their land.
they weren't there when the mutants claimed Mars, so clearly they weren't native to Mars 😉
Wasn't just Mars, they tried to make a whole thing about how Avalon and thus England belonged to the mutants and that poor poor boi Mordred wasn't rebelling to forcibly depose his own father and claim the throne as his own but cause his angry evil cis white saxon papa was just being mean and stinky and wacist against his rightful bastard heir, and that it's all a plot by Merlin to cover up the true true for real history that Tini Howard totally didn't pull out of her ass.
God, that Excalibur run was just so fricking stupid.
we don't talk about Excalibur
Why wouldn't you want to talk about the book that had mutants actively seizing territory, attacking the government, and overall ignoring the sovereignty of a nation that played completely fair with Krakoa and was just about the only nation on Earth that never had any issues with mutants? Or how the whole thing was one giant love letter to corporate exploitation of less developed nations, 19th century colonialism and imperialism, and violently repressive puppet governments propped up by foreign powers?
because Tini Howard is a shit writer and I stopped reading it rather than wallow in my misery
I feel like the whole world's views on mutants is something that has been way to inconsistent. In some instances you'll have government built mutants teams, in others you'll have mutants being heroes of their nation, but then as soon as someone else is feeling slighted the whole world would go mental at so much as the idea that someone would be a mutant.
The problem is that Marvel has always been pretty consistent with the UK not really having any issues with mutants aside from very specific people - one of whom is a mutant.
Who's more racist? Humans or Mutants? MUTANTS! You know why? Because everything humans hate about mutants, mutants REALLY hate about mutants. Like a civil war going on with mutants. There's two sides. Mutants and MUGGAS. And MUGGAS have got to go. Every time mutants want to have a good time or mind their own business, jackass muggas frick it all up. Can't do shit with some mugga fricking it up. Can't keep a business open more than three weeks without some butthole with laser eyes blasting down your building and ruining your insurance. Grand opening? GRAND OPTIC BLAST! Can't go to regular school without two sides ruining your study session demanding you pick a side to use your flipper hands on to fight giant robots with. I like mutants, but I hate MUGGAS. I wish they would let my mutant ass join the goddamn purifiers. You can't be anywhere around muggas. You can't have a nice home because muggas will destroy your house to get you come to their cult. Come over the next day, HEY I HEARD YOUR HOUSE GOT WRECKED!!
>Or how the whole thing was one giant love letter to corporate exploitation of less developed nations, 19th century colonialism and imperialism, and violently repressive puppet governments propped up by foreign powers?
Yes, anon, but you're overlooking the point that it's IRONIC that Europeans are suffering that fate after centuries of oppressing non-Europeans. Never mind that most of the X-Men are Americans of European descent. The X-gene washes away whiteness.
I'm curious, what do the X-gays over on CBR or r/XMen think of her Excalibur and X-Corp runs? They eat up everything about Krakoa and they're the only fanbase that still defends Bendis.
Take all the Utopia shit, magnify it by a million run it through a twitter audience and then let simmer for years
They aren't gonna have Hickmangina's OC Kittaura kill a babby. Sure, she'll get the finger on the trigger and Charles Xinister spurring her on but she'll angst and recant and tell Mr X to suck an egg coming out and check his priviledge
besides, Moira's muggapower manifests in the womb and at the very end of her first life. Killing a random her at age 13 will accomplish nothing.
Moira's power manifests at 13, she just retains her past memories before that, this was established in like the first issue of PoX
according the Destiny, while she has her old memories even in the womb, she doesn't get the actual groundhog day part of her powers till puberty so if she's killed before than she stays dead. Though it's more likely they'll just zap her with a depower gun when she's young and have young Chuck wipe her mind so that things play out as they originally did before Hickman started this moira x shit.
So will Proteus cease to exist?
he's in the White Hot Room right so maybe not
Why do people want the X-Men to be about mutant supremacy and other such bullshit?
Why do they want them to have a possessive claim over every character even tangentially related to mutants?
Because they want to be the special. The book is no longer for genuine outcasts and loners. It's no longer about people who don't fit in. It's about weirdos who acted like buttholes that made everyone uncomfortable getting angry over imagined slights and wanting to live a revenge fantasy.
I can't wait to go back to the mansion and the nineties status quo! Everything should stay the same forever!
I wonder how Kirby, Wein and Claremont kept making it work
I liked the San Francisco/Utopia era. Hope and Avengers autism ruined a good thin.
Utopia at least had them do crazy comic book shit like fight vampires.
The Avengers were objectively in the right
no one was in the right in AvX except Cyclops
Hope is the most worthless deus ex machina character ever created.
shit thread, just admit that you hate x-men, period. and stop pretending you care
I don't think anyone is denying either of those claims.
hard to tell with all this samehomosexualry going on here
Frick off Chester go wank to your pixar pedo hentai threads
Bruh.
People like the X-Men like you can't even believe, that's why they're tired of the bullshit.
Some of us read nothing but X-Men and have had to deal with this editorial clownishness on what would be otherwise easy-sell characters for years.
you deserve shit.
Okay who pissed in your cornflakes today? Get a grip dude.
They keep sayin' it but still waitin'.
I wonder what will you complain about when the x-men return to the mansion. Or maybe you'll find something new to mald about
If I know the fandom, it'll be how nothing new ever happens, how preachy the X-men are, and how the rest of Marvel sucks for constantly trying to genocide the mutants and how no other superhero seems to care. Granted, they might actually just focus on having the X-men fly to exotic locations to fight evil mutants and dino creatures and robots and aliens and shit while hanging around the pool in skimpy tight bathing suits or playing baseball or going to the mall to gossip about Logan's moronic love life or what latest fashion atrocity Kate Pryde is going to wear next as part of yet another attempt to reinvent herself instead of trying to recapture lightning in a bottle yet again with the fervor that God Loves, Man Kills had before...
...But what're the chances of that happening?
If you dislike the concept of krakoa itself then you must find moira blameless. Before all this she had her faults but didn't devolve into a cartoon villain because hickman couldn't bother to finish what he started again.
Maybe it's time for Emma to lead the X-Men things couln't possibly get worse with her in charge could they?
Ask the Hellions how things went with her in charge
The Krakoa era was pretty good, except for like 3 bad books. I'll miss it.
Won't happen. Xavier would never kill Moira, even more so an innocent one.
The best thing is to slowly bring Utopia back and just leave Krakoa in the past.
I agree. I still can't believe it ended after only a few years.
>The best thing is
We can't have the best things, anon.