The New Yorker's MCU expos

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/06/12/how-the-marvel-cinematic-universe-swallowed-hollywood

A bit biased, but with some genuinely interesting stuff about how it all came to be.

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  1. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >By 2001, Yost, then twenty-seven, was getting an M.F.A. in film business in Los Angeles, but he wanted to be a writer; he had written an unproduced screenplay about an alien invasion. He heard that Marvel had a new West Coast outpost and cold-called for an interview. The studio shared a small office with a company that made kites. There were six employees. One of them, a guy in a ball cap who was also in his late twenties, sat Yost down for what turned into a “comic book trivia-off.” The interviewer, whose name was Kevin Feige, asked, “What issue does Spider-Man get his black costume in?”

    >“Oh, that’s a trick question,” Yost said. (The black suit first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man No. 252, but its origins weren’t revealed until the crossover series Secret Wars.) He landed a summer internship, working from a desk belonging to Stan Lee, Marvel’s legendary former editor-in-chief, who rarely came in. The company, which had filed for bankruptcy a few years earlier, had set up the L.A. branch to license Marvel characters to Hollywood; Yost’s job was to dig through the vast library of characters and help package them for studios, “basically try to drum up interest.” He and Feige had long bull sessions about Namor, a sea-dwelling mutant. On the last day of his internship, Yost left the executives a sci-fi sample script, and he got a job writing for the animated series “X-Men: Evolution.”

    >Cut to 2010. Yost, having built up his résumé on cartoons, was asked to join a writing lab at Marvel Studios, which was making its own live-action features, with astonishing success.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The interviewer, whose name was Kevin Feige, asked, “What issue does Spider-Man get his black costume in?”
      Hard to believe that this guy is an actual comic book nerd

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        That's like the most consistent thing about Feige.

        >Feige (who declined to be interviewed) has a reputation as an all-knowing Oz, but collaborators describe him as a comic book savant who pops in and offers story fixes culled from his encyclopedic Marvel knowledge and delivered with a gee-whiz fanboy enthusiasm. “Anytime somebody pitches him something, he imagines himself in a theatre with a tub of popcorn,” Yost told me. A spitball session might result in tectonic maneuvering. When the Russos pushed to base the third Captain America movie on the civil war storyline—a crossover series involving a toybox’s worth of heroes—Feige worked for months to get the actors and the I.P. aligned. Anthony Russo recalled, “He opened up the door one day and poked his head in and said, ‘War is coming!’ ” But Feige’s zeal belies a cannier managerial skill. “He’s really good at getting what he wants, but at the same time making everybody feel like they got what they wanted,” the former executive said.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Do basically dodney couldn't find a big nerd who was also a good manager for star wars

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Filoni?

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Like from the start though.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Filoni has no experience managing a business. Hell, he had no experience in live action until he shadowed Favreau.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Frick off shill. I’m so sick of the Twitter homosexuals saying he’s a “comic nerd” I’m not going to have one of you homosexuals sit here doing it too

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Literal autism.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              There’s nothing wrong with autism. High functioning autism is immensely significant and “lower functioning” kinds aren’t terrible either. Any supposed “cons” can be gotten rid of. I can’t stand any autism slander.
              (I’m not the individual you’re responding to)

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >That's like the most consistent thing about Feige.
          It's hard to believe someone who'd engage in 80s Marvel trivia conversations is also the same person who considers so many awful 2000s and 2010s stories and characters to be essential things to adapt into live action. If he knows all that history why fixate on the crap?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            This
            If Feige's a comic nerd, then he'd absolutely be pushing to adapt more classic stuff from the 60s-80s, rather than having all the current MCU films and shows lift their material from the shittiest parts of modern 21st century comics

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            This
            If Feige's a comic nerd, then he'd absolutely be pushing to adapt more classic stuff from the 60s-80s, rather than having all the current MCU films and shows lift their material from the shittiest parts of modern 21st century comics

            He could be an actual comic nerd and still suffer from shit taste or hold certain opinions that you disagree on a fundamental level, something like, him having a headcanon that you don't like but he does. That's something that always worries me when fans get on positions of power over their favorite properties, not like a non-fan boomer executive would be better but this is something of a specific kind of problem that could arise.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              The idea that we're getting a Secret Wars movie but it's the stupid Hickman Secret Wars and not the original Secret Wars is infuriating, and it's hard to imagine any "real fan" ever making that choice.

              Ultimately having a fanboy with terrible taste in charge of things is what happens too often in comics. You kind of need the non-fan exec who's just a soulless profit-focused businessman to play a role just to stop morons like that from ruining a thing that makes money and could make a lot money. And there's been nobody in place to tell Feige any of the stupid things he's greenlit since Phase 4 started were stupid ideas, nobody in a position where they could say no to him, whether it was Eternals or Thor 4, that MODOK or that Namor or that Kang. Cinemaphile still isn't ready to have this conversation yet, but eventually people will have to accept the Wandagays have a point about the MCU needlessly adapting comic stories that ruined a character, and fans of any other popular character would be chimping out the same or worse if it happened to them.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                shill

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Having multiple events with the exact same name, no distinction between them besides a year sometimes being applied, is the worst shit ever.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nah that's moronic and something only capeshit morons would say

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            because Blackrock got Disney iron gripped at the balls

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            This
            If Feige's a comic nerd, then he'd absolutely be pushing to adapt more classic stuff from the 60s-80s, rather than having all the current MCU films and shows lift their material from the shittiest parts of modern 21st century comics

            [...]
            He could be an actual comic nerd and still suffer from shit taste or hold certain opinions that you disagree on a fundamental level, something like, him having a headcanon that you don't like but he does. That's something that always worries me when fans get on positions of power over their favorite properties, not like a non-fan boomer executive would be better but this is something of a specific kind of problem that could arise.

            Oh, that's an easy one. He may be a nerd, but unfortunately a lot of his friends/co-workers are the ones responsible for running the company into the ground., Feige is simply paying his success back by getting their stories adapted for the sake of residuals/further Hollywood opportunities.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      nary a mention of the messiah trilogy

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >just walked in and got the job

  2. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    This is a feature, not an exposé. It doesn’t expose anything.

  3. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Kevin Goetz, the founder of Screen Engine, which studies audience behavior, pointed to Marvel’s sense of “elevated fun” to explain why it gets people to the theatre: “They’re carnival rides, and they’re hefty carnival rides.”

    >Marvel’s success, he added, has “sucked the air out of” more human-scaled entertainments. Whole species of movies—adult dramas, rom-coms—have become endangered, since audiences are happy to wait and stream “Tár” or “Book Club: The Next Chapter,” or to get their grownup kicks from such series as “Succession” or “The White Lotus.” Yet even prestige television has become overrun with Marvel, “Star Wars,” and “The Lord of the Rings” series, which use the small screen to map out new corners of their trademarked galaxies. Hollywood writers, who are currently striking over the constricted economics of streaming, also complain of the constricted imaginations of TV executives: instead of searching for the next “Mad Men,” they’re hunting for Batman spinoffs.

    >Detractors see the brand’s something-for-everyone approach as nefarious. An executive at a rival studio, who called the MCU “the Death of All Cinema,” told me that the dominance of Marvel movies “has served to accelerate the squeezing out of the mid-range movie.” His studio’s comedies had been struggling at the box office, and he groused, “If people want a comedy, they’re going to go see ‘Thor’ or ‘Ant-Man’ as their comedy now.”

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      oh no not the rom-coms

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        With all due respect why do you defend the idea that there should only be cape or action movies made? Be a homosexual about it just answer genuinely

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          With all due respect why are you putting words in my mouth? I simply don't find romantic comedies to be a genre worth lamenting over the supposed death of. They're even more formulaic and tired than the superhero movies everyone is kvetching over.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          With all due respect why are you putting words in my mouth? I simply don't find romantic comedies to be a genre worth lamenting over the supposed death of. They're even more formulaic and tired than the superhero movies everyone is kvetching over.

          Romcoms ain't even dead, they just moved to streaming. Netflix and Amazon release like half a dozen of them each month, some are even very good, like pic related.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oh my god, Hangman?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Is that Chad Radwell?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'll do you one further and say No Hard Feelings, Elemental, Sanctuary, Book Club 2 and Love Again were all (to some degree) romantic comedies released in the theater the past two months. Just because absolutely no one watches them, it doesn't mean the option to see them isn't there.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          It is just commercial product. Whatever sells sells. It isn't like there haven't been bombs out of Marvel like Eternals.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      > Marvel’s success, he added, has “sucked the air out of” more human-scaled entertainments. Whole species of movies—adult dramas, rom-coms—have become endangered, since audiences are happy to wait and stream “Tár” or “Book Club: The Next Chapter,” or to get their grownup kicks from such series as “Succession” or “The White Lotus.”
      This is more technological advancements and the fact that even a lower class family can afford a home set up that rivals the theater experience. I can sit on my couch with my wife and my dogs and watch a drama on a TV with a high enough resolution to count the actors pours with any snack I want that won’t cost me $50 or have to worry about some incel breaking in and shooting everyone.
      >muh theater experience
      The future is now, grampa

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why do people act like its Marvel's fault? Streaming would have killed cinema if it wasn't for Marvel, just because you can't sell the same old boring white people drama for as many millions of dollars and can only afford 2 yachts is no reason to throw a tantrum

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      At least horror movies still make a shit ton of money with modest budgets.

  4. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The MCU roster includes seasoned icons (Robert Redford, Glenn Close), mid-career stars (Scarlett Johansson, Chris Pratt), and breakout talents (Florence Pugh, Michael B. Jordan). It may be easier to count the conscientious objectors who haven’t gone Marvel, among them Timothée Chalamet, who has said that Leonardo DiCaprio once advised him, “No hard drugs and no superhero movies.” (This was after Chalamet auditioned for Spider-Man.)

    >It can be dispiriting to see so much acting talent sucked into the quantum realm of the MCU, presumably for a tidy sum, but the paychecks alone don’t explain Marvel’s hold over stars. “At some point, you want to be relevant,” an agent who represents several MCU actors said. “Success is the best drug.” This year, Angela Bassett became the first actor to be nominated for an Oscar for a Marvel role, in “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.” “Well, it’s so modern,” she told me in February. “We try and stay current, and they’ve got a winning formula.” Entire generations now know Anthony Hopkins not as Hannibal Lecter but as Thor’s dad, King Odin of Asgard. “They put me in armor; they shoved a beard on me,” he told me. “Sit on the throne, shout a bit. If you’re sitting in front of a green screen, it’s pointless acting it.”

    >The result is a lot of hand-wringing over “the death of the movie star.” In an I.P.-driven ecosystem, individual stars no longer attract audiences to theatres the way they used to, with a handful of exceptions (Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts). You go to a Marvel movie to see Captain America, not Chris Evans. “It’s actually surprising to me how almost none of them have careers outside of the Marvel universe,” another agent said. “The movies don’t work. Look at all the ones Robert Downey, Jr., has tried to do. Look at Tom Holland. It’s been bomb after bomb after bomb.”

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >>It can be dispiriting to see so much acting talent sucked into the quantum realm of the MCU, presumably for a tidy sum, but the paychecks alone don’t explain Marvel’s hold over stars.

      Why? They aren't the first blockbusters for actors

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >mid-career stars (Scarlett Johansson, Chris Pratt)

      OHNONONONO

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Chalamet will regret not getting on the gravy train, the new Dune isn't becoming the kind of hit Matrix and Star Wars were

  5. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >You might picture arriving for your first day of work on a Marvel movie and being handed a leather-bound bible of character mythology. Instead, directors who are in the running for their first Marvel job are given a fifteen-or-so-page “discussion document,” distilled from corporate brainstorming retreats. Landing the job requires not slavish adherence to the document but a nifty approach to executing it. The movies are shot all over the world but edited in Burbank, on the same lot as Feige’s office. Each film’s creative team meets multiple times a week with Marvel’s upper management—until recently, a group known as the Trio, consisting of Feige, Louis D’Esposito, and Victoria Alonso. Filmmakers also receive notes from the Parliament, a group of senior creative executives who are each assigned to individual projects but review them all as a committee.

    >All this corporate machinery may sound oppressive, but Marvel collaborators tend to describe their experiences as surprisingly free-form and hands-off. One editor referred to Marvel’s oversight as a “pinkie on the steering wheel.” “There wasn’t anything dictated at all,” Joe Johnston, who directed the first Captain America film, told me. Erik Sommers, who co-wrote the Spider-Man trilogy, recalled that Marvel assistants had put together a document that explained the difference between a “universe” and a “dimension.” But otherwise, he said, “it’s not a giant diagram of preëxisting dots that need to be connected in a certain order.”

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      They should try and get Joe Johnston back for something. Make a movie as loaded with nice practical effects as First Avenger was.

  6. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >A few directors—Patty Jenkins, Edgar Wright—have quit Marvel projects, after battling for creative control. “The only times we’d run into problems is if we got a filmmaker who said, ‘This is what I want to do,’ and then showed up and wanted to do something completely different,” a former Marvel executive told me. “So then you hear people saying, ‘Kevin Feige came in, and he took over the process!’ But, if you know what the game plan is, you end up having a ton of creative freedom at Marvel, because we’re working inside the box.” Martin Scorsese would shudder.

  7. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why do I need a read an essay about it? It's not complicated. Actors get lots of money for basic b***h acting AND they get to look cool for their kids which many have.

  8. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Since taking over Marvel, Perlmutter had imposed an obsessive frugality. He would fish paper clips out of the trash. “Instead of buying us actual furniture, he took a truckload of furniture that he had in a warehouse somewhere and shipped it to us,” a former executive recalled. “I remember having to unload a semi truck of furniture and opening drawers up and finding old sandwiches.” Once, the studio accidentally ordered pens with purple ink; Perlmutter refused to allow a replacement order, so for years Marvel paperwork was done in purple. The stinginess extended to movies. Chris Hemsworth was paid just a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to star in “Thor.” Terrence Howard, the highest-paid actor in “Iron Man,” was replaced in sequels by Don Cheadle; Perlmutter reportedly said that no one would notice, because Black people all look alike. (Perlmutter denies this.)

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This man looks like he'd pave over baby owls.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I like how one of the few other photos of him looks like it was taken during a villain meeting by a spy in a James Bond movie

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >frugality
      That just sounds like good business sense to me tbh.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fishing paper clips out of the trash is insanity. It's exactly the kind of thing a rich moron would do while making dumbass decisions that cost the company millions.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Once, the studio accidentally ordered pens with purple ink; Perlmutter refused to allow a replacement order, so for years Marvel paperwork was done in purple.

      They should have called them the Thanos pens

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This man looks like he'd pave over baby owls.

      I like how one of the few other photos of him looks like it was taken during a villain meeting by a spy in a James Bond movie

      Ike Perlmutter is cartoonishly israeli. His wikipedia page and any other facts you hear about him read like they were written by Nazi propagandists in just how unbelievably stereotypical they makes him sound, but he's actually fricking real

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        And then he got outplayed by Stan Lee in a face to face interview and Lee walked away with more money than he was being paid before.

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder how everything would’ve turned out if marvel never let themselves be bought by Disney

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Probably good and with some edge remaining.

      Universal or Paramount were better fits.

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'm tired of the MCU and I think they've ruined it beyond repair, but "the plot boils down" can be done to literally any movie. You can always simplify to the point of absurdity.

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I used to think the MCU would adapt my favorite stories. Now I realize the people in charge have nothing but contempt for said stories.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Doesn't shoot the gun
      moron

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fricking casual. He was shooting until he ran out of ammo

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        you can see the empty mag flying away from the gun

  12. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >newyorker.com
    Only good thing about them is the crosswords.

  13. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's the other way around, Hollywood swalllowed these comic universes because they realized they could make the same movie over and over and keep raking in money from morons who don't want to read and orgasm when they hear a familiar name. Now frick off back to Wrong board

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