>manga isn't woke >Toonami literally aired an anime starring a lesbian transvestite with an abusive father that moves out to be with her disabled girlfriend in the end a decade before Steven Universe was a thing
Manga and anime is woke as frick.
/co/mblr is weird when it comes to anime, they'll try to say that stuff is woke because they assume everyone else on this board is like them and doesn't know anything about anime or manga.
I've unironically seen anons here try to call e-girl smut woke, which is hilarious.
>smut can't be woke
What is this nonsense? Also, that's ecchi, not smut.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That webm isn't the e-girl smut I was referring to.
But no, e-girl smut is not woke.
Woke types are not very fond of anything heterosexual males might enjoy.
Which is why they spend so much time b***hing about fanservice.
They're also not fond of anything involving e-girls.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Woke types are not very fond of anything heterosexual males might enjoy.
Oh, you're one of those dumbfricks. How many "woke" youtubers have shit from ecchi anime or even smutty videogame characters like Kerrigan in their background props? How many woke people on social media have big tittied anime girls for profile pics?
You're fricking delusional.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>How many "woke" youtubers have shit from ecchi anime or even smutty videogame characters like Kerrigan in their background props?
I wouldn't know, I don't watch moronic youtube grifters.
You're fricking moronic if you think the group that's spent the last decade b***hing about the male gaze and objectification and various other moronic feminist issues likes (hetero) fanservice.
Like genuinely fricking moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm left of Mussolini, so you'd probably call me woke, and I certainly love fanservice that's done well (i.e. doesn't detract from the story being told).
e-girlgays can park their shit elsewhere though.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>that's done well
Define "done well."
"Doesn't detract from the story being told" means nothing because plenty of annoying woke whites will b***h about fanservice even when it doesn't, or worse, b***h about fanservice in an ecchi show, where the fanservice is the main reason for the show's existence.
2 years ago
Anonymous
As in, it makes sense to happen, it isn't forced, and isn't legitimately sexualizing toddlers or some shit. A good example would be the fanservice in Evangelion or Gunbuster/Diebuster, or even KLK. >plenty of annoying woke whites will b***h about fanservice even when it doesn't
Plenty, as in a handful on a website that actively creates an algorithmic bubble designed to show you the maximum number of things you respond to. >b***h about fanservice in an ecchi show
Bitching about fanservice in a show that exist for fanservice is pretty silly, yes. I would presume that when most critics talk about that stuff, they're talking about what it normalizes. For example - and I know creepy basement dwellers don't want to hear this - stuff like
/co/mblr is weird when it comes to anime, they'll try to say that stuff is woke because they assume everyone else on this board is like them and doesn't know anything about anime or manga.
I've unironically seen anons here try to call e-girl smut woke, which is hilarious.
is genuinely fricked up and weird. Your typical anime character lives in a sort of stylistic no-space where their age is a kind of abstract and you could probably guess anything within 10 years or more of the canon answer, but when you start sexualizing characters that are designed to look specifically like toddlers to an unambiguous degree, you're genuinely training kids to accept paedophilia as fine.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>As in, it makes sense to happen, it isn't forced
In what context would "it makes sense" be the qualifier?
What would be an example of "forced" fanservice? >Plenty, as in a handful on a website that actively creates an algorithmic bubble designed to show you the maximum number of things you respond to.
Which algorithm does tumblr use to be full of annoying sex-negative white people? >I would presume that when most critics talk about that stuff, they're talking about what it normalizes.
Cartoons don't "normalize" anything, you're really only proving my point. >you're genuinely training kids to accept paedophilia as fine.
I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the anime based on a manga made by a literal /ss/ porn artist, is made for kids?
You're REALLY only proving my point even harder anon, it's typical "what I like is good, if I don't like it it's bad and shouldn't exist," which is typical of both woke types such as yourself and /misc/tards.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>In what context would "it makes sense" be the qualifier?
I gave you examples already bruh. >Which algorithm does tumblr use to be full of annoying sex-negative white people?
The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you. >Cartoons don't "normalize" anything, you're really only proving my point.
Media definitely normalizes things. Media has always informed culture. >I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the anime based on a manga made by a literal /ss/ porn artist, is made for kids?
Sorry, I'm at the age where I refer to basically anyone under 25 as a kid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I gave you examples already bruh.
You gave me three examples over the course of 30 years of animation. >The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
That's weird because I only go to tumblr for porn and yet I still see woke whites b***hing about said porn.
Interesting how that works. >Media definitely normalizes things
Only if you're a moron who can't tell reality from fiction, which apparently applies to quite a few white people. >Sorry, I'm at the age where I refer to basically anyone under 25 as a kid.
Then you are moronic.
By that logic every single piece of media that's not just nostalgiabait is made for kids.
Don't be moronic, anon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You gave me three examples over the course of 30 years of animation.
You can't figure out anything from three examples? >That's weird because I only go to tumblr for porn and yet I still see woke whites b***hing about said porn.
Anon, sites don't just get information on you from your local activity. >Only if you're a moron who can't tell reality from fiction
Not really. Certainly, very few people are in danger of seeing a sick fight scene and then trying to do it IRL, but the attitudes in media are consumed and absorbed by watchers. Media decides what things are cool, what things are acceptable, etc. >By that logic every single piece of media that's not just nostalgiabait is made for kids
Slow your roll anon, it's just a colloquialism. I'm not saying you are literally a toddler and everything made for you is child orientated.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You can't figure out anything from three examples?
Not really, no, I'll need a lot more than that. >Anon, sites don't just get information on you from your local activity.
Please explain how tumblr's algorithm is leading me specifically to porn where the notes/comments are full of woke white people b***hing.
I'll wait. >Not really.
Good argument. >Certainly, very few people are in danger of seeing a sick fight scene and then trying to do it IRL, but the attitudes in media are consumed and absorbed by watchers.
And they only impact your IRL behaviour if you are a moron, or a white person apparently. >Slow your roll anon, it's just a colloquialism.
The word you're looking for is sophistry.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Not really, no, I'll need a lot more than that.
...Ah, I get it. You're not old enough to actually know those examples, are you? >Please explain how tumblr's algorithm is leading me specifically to porn where the notes/comments are full of woke white people b***hing.
I'm not talking about specifically you. Tumblr's algorithm will show people stuff they are more likely to engage with. If there are one or two comments like this, it will be shown to more people likely to engage that way. >Good argument.
Well, you have to actually read the rest of it. >And they only impact your IRL behaviour if you are a moron
Nah, it'd pretty solidly proven that media can create behaviour. A good example would be cigarette companies paying shows to show more characters smoking leading to an actual increase in smoking - and then the opposite happened when there was a concerted effort to decrease the amount of smokers in media. >The word you're looking for is sophistry.
No... that's not what that word means at all.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>...Ah, I get it. You're not old enough to actually know those examples, are you?
I've seen Evangelion and KLK you mongoloid, one of those isn't even a decade old yet.
Are you going to post more than 3 examples or are those the only anime you can think of because you don't actually know much about them since most woke types like yourself don't actually like anime? >I'm not talking about specifically you. Tumblr's algorithm will show people stuff they are more likely to engage with.
Do you not remember your own argument?
>In what context would "it makes sense" be the qualifier?
I gave you examples already bruh. >Which algorithm does tumblr use to be full of annoying sex-negative white people?
The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you. >Cartoons don't "normalize" anything, you're really only proving my point.
Media definitely normalizes things. Media has always informed culture. >I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the anime based on a manga made by a literal /ss/ porn artist, is made for kids?
Sorry, I'm at the age where I refer to basically anyone under 25 as a kid.
>The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
You argued that this nebulous algorithm is what feeds it to ME specifically because I supposedly engage with it, not that other woke whites will see those notes/comments and engage with them.
The real reason tumblr is like that is because its modern userbase is largely made up of sex-negative woke whites. >Nah, it'd pretty solidly proven that media can create behaviour. A good example would be cigarette companies paying shows to show more characters smoking leading to an actual increase in smoking - and then the opposite happened when there was a concerted effort to decrease the amount of smokers in media.
And which countries did this happen in? Hint: They're all white countries. >No... that's not what that word means at all.
You tried to make some moronic argument that "w-well, anything that attracts people under 25 is like kids for me, c-cuz I'm just so old!"
If that's not a moronic fallacious argument made because you were stupid and unironically thought that something like Kobayashi's Dragon Maid is made for kids, I don't know what is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>one of those isn't even a decade old yet
I have no idea how old you were decade ago. You argument is nine-year-old tier, after all. >Do you not remember your own argument? >The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
Do you not realize that 'you' isn't specific, right? Do you not understand how people talk casually? >And which countries did this happen in?
Literally all of the ones with access to mainstream media. Yes, it happened throughout Asia. >You tried to make some moronic argument that "w-well, anything that attracts people under 25 is like kids for me, c-cuz I'm just so old!"
No you absolute backbirth, I just used the term 'kid' because it's a reflexive way to describe the primary consumers of anime - young people.
Stop pretending to not understand colloquialisms, it's making you look actually moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I have no idea how old you were decade ago.
I'm sorry that you're a mongoloid in that case. >Do you not realize that 'you' isn't specific, right? Do you not understand how people talk casually?
Your argument doesn't even make any sense, you can't even explain what this algorithm that Tumblr uses even is or how it supposedly works (likely because you're tech-illiterate anyways). >Literally all of the ones with access to mainstream media. Yes, it happened throughout Asia.
Weird, anime still has just as much smoking as usual, and yet smoking rates still dropped.
Almost like...media doesn't influence you that much if you're not moronic. >No you absolute backbirth, I just used the term 'kid' because it's a reflexive way to describe the primary consumers of anime - young people.
You're implying that someone over the age of 20 is going to be "trained" by media, which makes me think you're actually fricking stupid.
But you seem like one of those out-of-touch 40 year old morons who seem so common on Cinemaphile, so that's no surprise.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can't even explain what this algorithm that Tumblr uses even is or how it supposedly works
I've already explained it. It's pretty similar to what most such sites use. If people engage with something, the algorithm will show them more of that thing, leading to more people with similar reactions being funneled into that bubble. >Weird, anime still has just as much smoking as usual
Wew, showing your sprightly youth there. It absolutely doesn't. Neither does Japanese media in general, by the way. >You're implying that someone over the age of 20 is going to be "trained" by media
Everyone is influenced by the things they consume. This isn't speculation, it's a well documented fact.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I've already explained it.
No you haven't. >If people engage with something, the algorithm will show them more of that thing, leading to more people with similar reactions being funneled into that bubble.
You need to prove that tumblr makes use of such an algorithm.
Typically how tumblr works is whatever gets reblogged most is what gets spread around, and people only reblog things they like/agree with.
So if those people DON'T like porn they wouldn't be exposed to it anyways, it's something the site's userbase specifically seeks out because they don't like it and don't want it on the platform. >Everyone is influenced by the things they consume.
There's a difference between being "influenced" and being "trained."
People are not "trained" by media, this has been debunked time and time again when it comes to the proliferation of violent media (though Americans such as yourself seem to think this only applies to violence and nothing else, since, again, you're stupid).
Saying that a e-girl anime is going to "train" people to become pedophiles is just as moronic as saying that Grand Theft Auto trains people to become violent sociopaths.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You need to prove that tumblr makes use of such an algorithm.
No, I do not need to prove that a social media site uses the most widely proliferated type of content sorting algorithm among social media sites. >Saying that a e-girl anime is going to "train" people to become pedophiles
I didn't say it would. I said it trains them to be more okay with paedophilia. And this, too, is pretty well demonstrated - people that are into anime ARE way more likely to defend pedoshit, even if they're not specifically into it. The reason being that they're exposed to it constantly and, yes, trained, to see it as a normalized, routine thing that is present throughout the things they consume.
Not American, by the way.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>No, I do not need to prove that a social media site uses the most widely proliferated type of content sorting algorithm among social media sites.
An algorithm that you can't even explain by the way, which you tried to explain using metrics that aren't even widely used on Tumblr. >I didn't say it would. I said it trains them to be more okay with paedophilia. And this, too, is pretty well demonstrated - people that are into anime ARE way more likely to defend pedoshit, even if they're not specifically into it.
That's because people that are into anime tend to be proponents of free expression.
Likely because they know how moronic an argument it is to say that "You need to ban [X] because it might cause [Y]." >The reason being that they're exposed to it constantly and, yes, trained, to see it as a normalized, routine thing that is present throughout the things they consume.
No, again, it's because anime fans tend to, again, be proponents of free expression.
Largely because of something as simple as pic related. >Inb4 "i-it's all fake, they're hiding the crimes, their REAL crime rates are totally, uhh, 20x higher!"
That one's my favourite cope from white westerners. >Not American, by the way.
You sure act moronic like one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Japan underreports rapes because the nation engages in human trafficking nation and is massively corrupt >this means it's actually the nasty gaijin who are the real rapists
lol
2 years ago
Anonymous
>"I-It's under-reported, t-the REAL crime rate is totally 20x higher!"
Again, my favourite cope.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's true in both the West and Japan, no one knows what the true rates are
2 years ago
Anonymous
Stop flirting! You two should just hook up and get it over with.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fellow lefty here who hates e-girlshit, but how is a kid being attracted to another kid "fricked up and weird?"
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Claims to know how the "wokes" feel about shit. >Also claims to not engage with any woke messengers or even social media generally
Hmm... >objectification
Objectification is bad writing and should be b***hed about no matter what. It's also not synonymous with sexualization. You can, in fact, sexualize someone without objectifying them. And a lot of well-written shit does exactly that. Likewise you can objectify someone without sexualizing them. >male gaze
That's deep cut film/feminist theory bullshit that the average person is neither going to know nor care about, including the average woke person. It's also a subject of academic debate, so presenting it as something purely b***hed about is nonsense.
Also, I get the feeling you've seen a bunch of anime avatars and are lying to avoid outright admitting you're talking out your ass if you're even familiar with this term.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>>Also claims to not engage with any woke messengers or even social media generally
Believe it or not, not engaging with them doesn't mean I don't see the moronic shit they post. >Objectification is bad writing
Alright then, so you agree that wokes dislike fanservice.
Glad we agree. >That's deep cut film/feminist theory bullshit that the average person is neither going to know nor care about
The average person is not woke, so that's an irrelevant point.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Believe it or not, not engaging with them doesn't mean I don't see the moronic shit they post.
And yet you aren't familiar with their anime avatars?
Yeah, nah. Either you see the posts and the avatars or neither.
>Alright then, so you agree that wokes dislike fanservice. >objectification >fanservice
You literally just don't know what words mean.
>The average person is not woke
Are you saying you are woke?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And yet you aren't familiar with their anime avatars?
Having an anime avatar doesn't mean anything, fricking Elon Musk has had an anime avatar before, the frick's your point? >You literally just don't know what words mean.
Whatever helps you cope. >Are you saying you are woke?
If that's what you assume then I can only assume that you are illiterate.
Or stupid.
Or likely both.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Having an anime avatar doesn't mean anything
It means you engage with that anime, many of which are sexualized. >If that's what you assume
No, that's not what I assume. Just pointing out conceding that the average person doesn't know what male gaze is means you don't act like the average person.
You said obviously wokes would know about it, but if you aren't woke and you know about it, that means you're deliberately engaging with woke shit despite not being woke.
You're literally hatereading/watching wokeshit.
Wokeshit lives in your head rent free.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It means you engage with that anime, many of which are sexualized.
No, it doesn't.
Having an anime avatar from a specific anime means nothing, plenty of people will literally grab random images that they think look cute or hot without knowing where they're from.
That's like saying posting a reaction image on Cinemaphile of an anime means you've engaged with it, how are you this fricking stupid? >Just pointing out conceding that the average person doesn't know what male gaze is means you don't act like the average person.
And what's your point? >You said obviously wokes would know about it, but if you aren't woke and you know about it, that means you're deliberately engaging with woke shit despite not being woke.
No shit, I'm engaging with your dumbass right now you moron.
And I don't watch or read any wokeshit, I'm only exposed to it by people like you or /misc/tards.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>No, it doesn't.
Yes it does.
>And I don't watch or read any wokeshit
I have literally never seen ANYONE ever bring up male gaze except in a leftist video essay or right wingers like you b***hing about leftists b***hing about it.
Acting like it's some sort of prominent left wing talking point that it's normal to be aware of isn't normal. You're seeking info like that shit out, to b***h about it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Yes it does.
No, it doesn't.
Again, it's like arguing that using a reaction image from a show means you've watched it. >I have literally never seen ANYONE ever bring up male gaze except in a leftist video essay or right wingers like you b***hing about leftists b***hing about it. >I have never seen people bring up a left-wing talking point outside of people who are left-wing
Yea, no shit, are you fricking stupid?
No one said that left-wing social talking points are popular, they're largely spouted almost exclusively by annoying white progressives nowadays, YOU are the one arguing that these people aren't sex-negative when it comes to fanservice men enjoy you moron.
Did you forget what the original argument was?
2 years ago
Anonymous
right on the nose anon!
2 years ago
Anonymous
Built for cunnilingus.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This, wokeshitters hate anything for "the male gaze" while still being "kink positive"
pedoshit is in it's own hated category of subhuman behavior. beware of pedoscums. they attempt to weasel into any group that they think will champion them, or manipulate a situation to get someone to argue for them, just so they can jerk it to pedo drawings.
>little girl who is clearly a lesbian shown wanting to bang her friend
If this were a Western show, you'd be b***hing about groomers or some shit
2 years ago
Anonymous
If that were a western show she wouldn't be shaped like this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shaped like what, big hipped? You could take screenshots of Mei and Abby from Turning Red at odd angles too, it doesn't prove anything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You could take screenshots of Mei and Abby from Turning Red at odd angles too
Okay, then do it.
Make sure it's also a close up of their butt, and that they're not wearing pants.
Anon, Unnatural is a no-name "adult" comic for furries that no one outside of Cinemaphile and e621 has heard of.
Fire Force is a top 10 yearly shonen manga, and is in the top 200 all-time bestsellers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So what you are you saying is that comic lack of sales have nothing to do with them being woke or lacking cheesecake, since comics filled scantily clothed women can still sell like shit?
Glad we could come to an agreement,
2 years ago
Anonymous
Comics lack of sales more has to do with them being shit.
And also the cheesecake being lame compared to manga means I have no reason to ever buy a lame cheesecake comic.
>Like 20 shows over the course of 30-40 years
Damn, anime bros...
We're on the same level as mutts with gay sex in all their shows and trans flags in kid's shows.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Theres a lot more gay manga being sold than gay comics. Boys Love has actually been booming and selling midgrade shounen levels according to manga publisher roundtables.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Theres a lot more gay manga being sold than gay comics.
There's a lot more manga in general being sold than comics.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Even in context, theres a much higher percentage of gay manga being sold than gay comics. Entirely because of comics failure to attract female audiences.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Even in context, theres a much higher percentage of gay manga being sold than gay comics.
Not really, stuff like Heartstopper and Gender Queer sell better than capeshit, they just aren't sexy or hot to women like yaoi manga are.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Boys Love has actually been booming and selling midgrade shounen levels according to manga publisher roundtables.
Not sure where you saw that, the top sellers lists are still almost entirely shounen and seinen.
I think the only yaoi manga I see in top selling lists is Given.
Even when looking at the top selling authors in America from last year, there're like 2 yaoi authors with the rest being shounen, seinen, and shoujo authors.
And Parallel Paradise features multiple lesbian couples and crossdressing, but I doubt anyone would actually call that manga woke.
Unless they're moronic.
You dimbulb, Japan was doing trans long before woke was a thing. The difference is they don't shove it down your throat unless it has significant relwvance to the plot. And even then they remember that the plot comes first
>b-but comics do that too-
No. No they don't. This wouldn't be an issue if they did.
>The difference is they don't shove it down your throat unless it has significant relwvance to the plot.
Which it didn't really in that anime Toonami aired. Plot's still exactly the fricking same even if the MC's a straight dude.
>Yes it does.
No, it doesn't.
Again, it's like arguing that using a reaction image from a show means you've watched it. >I have literally never seen ANYONE ever bring up male gaze except in a leftist video essay or right wingers like you b***hing about leftists b***hing about it. >I have never seen people bring up a left-wing talking point outside of people who are left-wing
Yea, no shit, are you fricking stupid?
No one said that left-wing social talking points are popular, they're largely spouted almost exclusively by annoying white progressives nowadays, YOU are the one arguing that these people aren't sex-negative when it comes to fanservice men enjoy you moron.
Did you forget what the original argument was?
>Did you forget what the original argument was?
I already won the original argument. At this point I was just mocking you for having to lie to even continue to b***h.
Remember? You're having to deny awareness of evidence in order to not engage with it. And not only are you lying about awareness of evidence, you're lying about hatewatching woke bullshit, which is only reinforced by you claiming woke bullshit is obscure shit and also that you are aware of woke bullshit.
>I already won the original argument.
Not really, you just pretended that woke types b***hing about fanservice doesn't happen, which is equivalent to plugging your ears and going "lalalala, I can't hear you." >At this point I was just mocking you for having to lie to even continue to b***h.
Lie about what? >And not only are you lying about awareness of evidence, you're lying about hatewatching woke bullshit
Lol, I don't know what kind of sad life you live, but I don't waste time watching or reading shit I don't like, the only reason I know about any of this shit is because morons like you who constantly espouse it post here.
You're just like /misc/tards in a way, only /misc/tards are somehow less disingenuous and slimy, which is pretty impressive on your part.
But yes, woke types abhor hetero fanservice, I'm sorry you can't accept this objective fact.
It's amazing how much things have changed since 2016.
We went from the book channel being a good 20-30% smaller than the comic store channel with GNs outpacing comics by a measly 30% to the book channel nearing double the size of the comic store channel and GNs selling 3x what comics sell.
It's also very easy to see where a lot of that growth has come from.
>BERSERK was Dark Horse's best-selling comic. >Weird choice of words. Why not say "book", or "franchise"? >It's a bit too sterile. >"Story"? >It's more than just a story, they're not selling novels. >Then why don't you call it "manga"? >Uh... I... listen, comic book sales are going through the roof right now, and that's really the important message.
I'm starting to get the "how much of that is manga" meme.
>dollar sales not unit sales
how much is that adjusted for inflation, how much higher is the average issue price now compared to 10 years ago? how much of these sales are form new western comic releases and not form re-releases of decade old western comics or manga?
>how much of these sales are form new western comic releases and not form re-releases of decade old western comics or manga?
it's comichron so probably very little?
>it's comichron
It's not actually, comichron's yearly sales estimates include data from NPD Bookscan, ComicHub, and their own estimates.
And the biggest publisher in terms of revenue in NPD BookScan was Viz, who brought in over $200 million by themselves.
>that still doesn't separate capeshit from manga
That's the point. It allows them to co-opt ownership of other peoples' creations, much like localisers will advocate for being credited as co-writers/co-creators or even having their name above the manga author's
>localisers will advocate for being credited as co-writers/co-creators or even having their name above the manga author's
wat....
2 years ago
Anonymous
Zack Davisson's already screencapped in this thread and he's one of those squirrel-brains who's like "when you're reading a manga 95% of the writing is me so therefore I should be credited as the main writer"
Twitter is full of a lot of dreadful cliques with wagon-circling and the localiser community is one of them
>that still doesn't separate capeshit from manga
Yes, it does, only things solds trough direct market are counted for the comic books sales, manga is not sold through the direct market so it falls under the graphic novels category,
>Graphic novel sales were especially strong in the manga category, and periodical comics also had a great year, easily beating 2019. >While graphic novels lead the way, comic sales also exhibited high growth in 2021,” Griepp noted. “Graphic novels were up an astounding 76% growth across channels, while comics were up 53% vs. 2020 and up 23% vs. 2019 >As presented above and in the accompanying infographics, the analysis by Comichron and ICv2 was divided up between periodical comics (what some call "floppies" or "pamphlets"), graphic novels, and digital download-to-own sales
https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales/industrywide/2021-industrywide.html
>Graphic novel sales were especially strong in the manga category, and periodical comics also had a great year, easily beating 2019. >While graphic novels lead the way, comic sales also exhibited high growth in 2021,” Griepp noted. “Graphic novels were up an astounding 76% growth across channels, while comics were up 53% vs. 2020 and up 23% vs. 2019 >As presented above and in the accompanying infographics, the analysis by Comichron and ICv2 was divided up between periodical comics (what some call "floppies" or "pamphlets"), graphic novels, and digital download-to-own sales
https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales/industrywide/2021-industrywide.html
so "comics" are all western comics?
so capeshit is just plateauing? actually it's hard to tell really since I assume it includes all non-cape western comics too.
>so "comics" are all western comics?
Basically yes. > assume it includes all non-cape western comics too
It does, here are the figures for this 2021 comic book sales:
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2021.html
>>has to specify "books" since capeshit in general is the most influential media ever
DBZ is more important to most of the world than even Superman. Gay movies pushed by billionaire hollywood studios that cannot fail if even one person somewhere goes to watch it is not a measure of influence.
If you want to spend a Cinemaphile thread talking about book sales jerking off capeshit movies, there's a place for you Wrong board
It's amazing how much weebs feel the need to damage-control without actually doing a good job of it every time someone implies American comics may not be doing terrible. Stupid consolewar homosexuals.
Because almost all of that growth is from manga sales. 2021 saw a 170% increase in manga sales from 2020, which is why there is a huge spike. You do realize very little of that money is going to the hands of Americans, right?
>weebs
This word doesn't apply anymore because anybody who reads comic books anymore has some % of it that's manga. American Comics are just THAT shitty.
And you have nobody to blame but you, yourself, for that trainwreck. Please, enjoy your self-inflicted irrelevance.
Comic sales are just floppy/capeshit sales.
Graphic novels include everything from manga to TPBs to kid's comics.
That said, the vast majority of the growth in the GN sector is from manga and kid's comics.
rightoids should be mocked but leftoids should also be mocked
this whole school of people that are like "no manga is woke and Kill La Kill is a subversive satire parody, that's why it's OK to like it" should be mocked
This thread is full of reddit and /misc/ morons but here, I'll explain incase anyone wants to know.
This doesn't cover comics sold to customers, it's only comics sold to comic shops. Comic shops will buy 100 issues of an issue just to get a certain variant, and probably 50% of the original order will go unsold and end up in the dollar bin in a month.
And then there's the price of comics, which is what most of the increase comes from. a few years ago, all dc comics were 2.99. Now they're at least 3.99 and often 4.99 or more. Marvel's average issue price is now $5.
When you combine the over ordering of issues + the increase per unit, you get what seems like growth.
If you look at what each comic actually fricking sells, you will see that 2021 wasa gigantic letdown, and DC are in a massive shit hole, and Marvel aren't far behind.
>All those words to say "you're triggered, I know you're triggered, I'm not the one who's triggered"
Ah frick, now I'm triggered because I responded lol
The whole conceit of "people morally complain about [thing], that means they would never be hypocritical or cover up for being into [thing or thing-adjacent]' is preposterous and repeatedly debunked throughout history
Highest in dollars, not in number of comics sold. 1940s comics like Captain Marvel sold over a million issues monthly at ten cents each. Adjust that for today's prices.
>go to Barnes and Noble >manga section doubles in size every year, flooded with zoomers socializing with each other (soul btw) >comic section is facing the wall and it's entirely Batman and Avengers collections, no one in sight
How much of that is manga?
This. Wokegays love claiming manga sales as proof that woke capeshit isn’t dying.
>manga isn't woke
Its literally made of people with colored hair.
>manga isn't woke
>Toonami literally aired an anime starring a lesbian transvestite with an abusive father that moves out to be with her disabled girlfriend in the end a decade before Steven Universe was a thing
Manga and anime is woke as frick.
Ahh yes, and webm related is woke because it features a strong woman, amirite?
Surely woke westerners adore this.
pls anon! my dick!
>Ahh yes, and webm related is woke because it features a strong woman, amirite?
No, you don't understand. It wasn't sexy.
/co/mblr is weird when it comes to anime, they'll try to say that stuff is woke because they assume everyone else on this board is like them and doesn't know anything about anime or manga.
I've unironically seen anons here try to call e-girl smut woke, which is hilarious.
>smut can't be woke
What is this nonsense? Also, that's ecchi, not smut.
That webm isn't the e-girl smut I was referring to.
But no, e-girl smut is not woke.
Woke types are not very fond of anything heterosexual males might enjoy.
Which is why they spend so much time b***hing about fanservice.
They're also not fond of anything involving e-girls.
>Woke types are not very fond of anything heterosexual males might enjoy.
Oh, you're one of those dumbfricks. How many "woke" youtubers have shit from ecchi anime or even smutty videogame characters like Kerrigan in their background props? How many woke people on social media have big tittied anime girls for profile pics?
You're fricking delusional.
>How many "woke" youtubers have shit from ecchi anime or even smutty videogame characters like Kerrigan in their background props?
I wouldn't know, I don't watch moronic youtube grifters.
You're fricking moronic if you think the group that's spent the last decade b***hing about the male gaze and objectification and various other moronic feminist issues likes (hetero) fanservice.
Like genuinely fricking moronic.
I'm left of Mussolini, so you'd probably call me woke, and I certainly love fanservice that's done well (i.e. doesn't detract from the story being told).
e-girlgays can park their shit elsewhere though.
>that's done well
Define "done well."
"Doesn't detract from the story being told" means nothing because plenty of annoying woke whites will b***h about fanservice even when it doesn't, or worse, b***h about fanservice in an ecchi show, where the fanservice is the main reason for the show's existence.
As in, it makes sense to happen, it isn't forced, and isn't legitimately sexualizing toddlers or some shit. A good example would be the fanservice in Evangelion or Gunbuster/Diebuster, or even KLK.
>plenty of annoying woke whites will b***h about fanservice even when it doesn't
Plenty, as in a handful on a website that actively creates an algorithmic bubble designed to show you the maximum number of things you respond to.
>b***h about fanservice in an ecchi show
Bitching about fanservice in a show that exist for fanservice is pretty silly, yes. I would presume that when most critics talk about that stuff, they're talking about what it normalizes. For example - and I know creepy basement dwellers don't want to hear this - stuff like
is genuinely fricked up and weird. Your typical anime character lives in a sort of stylistic no-space where their age is a kind of abstract and you could probably guess anything within 10 years or more of the canon answer, but when you start sexualizing characters that are designed to look specifically like toddlers to an unambiguous degree, you're genuinely training kids to accept paedophilia as fine.
>As in, it makes sense to happen, it isn't forced
In what context would "it makes sense" be the qualifier?
What would be an example of "forced" fanservice?
>Plenty, as in a handful on a website that actively creates an algorithmic bubble designed to show you the maximum number of things you respond to.
Which algorithm does tumblr use to be full of annoying sex-negative white people?
>I would presume that when most critics talk about that stuff, they're talking about what it normalizes.
Cartoons don't "normalize" anything, you're really only proving my point.
>you're genuinely training kids to accept paedophilia as fine.
I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the anime based on a manga made by a literal /ss/ porn artist, is made for kids?
You're REALLY only proving my point even harder anon, it's typical "what I like is good, if I don't like it it's bad and shouldn't exist," which is typical of both woke types such as yourself and /misc/tards.
>In what context would "it makes sense" be the qualifier?
I gave you examples already bruh.
>Which algorithm does tumblr use to be full of annoying sex-negative white people?
The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
>Cartoons don't "normalize" anything, you're really only proving my point.
Media definitely normalizes things. Media has always informed culture.
>I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, the anime based on a manga made by a literal /ss/ porn artist, is made for kids?
Sorry, I'm at the age where I refer to basically anyone under 25 as a kid.
>I gave you examples already bruh.
You gave me three examples over the course of 30 years of animation.
>The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
That's weird because I only go to tumblr for porn and yet I still see woke whites b***hing about said porn.
Interesting how that works.
>Media definitely normalizes things
Only if you're a moron who can't tell reality from fiction, which apparently applies to quite a few white people.
>Sorry, I'm at the age where I refer to basically anyone under 25 as a kid.
Then you are moronic.
By that logic every single piece of media that's not just nostalgiabait is made for kids.
Don't be moronic, anon.
>You gave me three examples over the course of 30 years of animation.
You can't figure out anything from three examples?
>That's weird because I only go to tumblr for porn and yet I still see woke whites b***hing about said porn.
Anon, sites don't just get information on you from your local activity.
>Only if you're a moron who can't tell reality from fiction
Not really. Certainly, very few people are in danger of seeing a sick fight scene and then trying to do it IRL, but the attitudes in media are consumed and absorbed by watchers. Media decides what things are cool, what things are acceptable, etc.
>By that logic every single piece of media that's not just nostalgiabait is made for kids
Slow your roll anon, it's just a colloquialism. I'm not saying you are literally a toddler and everything made for you is child orientated.
>You can't figure out anything from three examples?
Not really, no, I'll need a lot more than that.
>Anon, sites don't just get information on you from your local activity.
Please explain how tumblr's algorithm is leading me specifically to porn where the notes/comments are full of woke white people b***hing.
I'll wait.
>Not really.
Good argument.
>Certainly, very few people are in danger of seeing a sick fight scene and then trying to do it IRL, but the attitudes in media are consumed and absorbed by watchers.
And they only impact your IRL behaviour if you are a moron, or a white person apparently.
>Slow your roll anon, it's just a colloquialism.
The word you're looking for is sophistry.
>Not really, no, I'll need a lot more than that.
...Ah, I get it. You're not old enough to actually know those examples, are you?
>Please explain how tumblr's algorithm is leading me specifically to porn where the notes/comments are full of woke white people b***hing.
I'm not talking about specifically you. Tumblr's algorithm will show people stuff they are more likely to engage with. If there are one or two comments like this, it will be shown to more people likely to engage that way.
>Good argument.
Well, you have to actually read the rest of it.
>And they only impact your IRL behaviour if you are a moron
Nah, it'd pretty solidly proven that media can create behaviour. A good example would be cigarette companies paying shows to show more characters smoking leading to an actual increase in smoking - and then the opposite happened when there was a concerted effort to decrease the amount of smokers in media.
>The word you're looking for is sophistry.
No... that's not what that word means at all.
>...Ah, I get it. You're not old enough to actually know those examples, are you?
I've seen Evangelion and KLK you mongoloid, one of those isn't even a decade old yet.
Are you going to post more than 3 examples or are those the only anime you can think of because you don't actually know much about them since most woke types like yourself don't actually like anime?
>I'm not talking about specifically you. Tumblr's algorithm will show people stuff they are more likely to engage with.
Do you not remember your own argument?
>The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
You argued that this nebulous algorithm is what feeds it to ME specifically because I supposedly engage with it, not that other woke whites will see those notes/comments and engage with them.
The real reason tumblr is like that is because its modern userbase is largely made up of sex-negative woke whites.
>Nah, it'd pretty solidly proven that media can create behaviour. A good example would be cigarette companies paying shows to show more characters smoking leading to an actual increase in smoking - and then the opposite happened when there was a concerted effort to decrease the amount of smokers in media.
And which countries did this happen in?
Hint: They're all white countries.
>No... that's not what that word means at all.
You tried to make some moronic argument that "w-well, anything that attracts people under 25 is like kids for me, c-cuz I'm just so old!"
If that's not a moronic fallacious argument made because you were stupid and unironically thought that something like Kobayashi's Dragon Maid is made for kids, I don't know what is.
>one of those isn't even a decade old yet
I have no idea how old you were decade ago. You argument is nine-year-old tier, after all.
>Do you not remember your own argument?
>The one that reads what makes you engage and feeds it to you.
Do you not realize that 'you' isn't specific, right? Do you not understand how people talk casually?
>And which countries did this happen in?
Literally all of the ones with access to mainstream media. Yes, it happened throughout Asia.
>You tried to make some moronic argument that "w-well, anything that attracts people under 25 is like kids for me, c-cuz I'm just so old!"
No you absolute backbirth, I just used the term 'kid' because it's a reflexive way to describe the primary consumers of anime - young people.
Stop pretending to not understand colloquialisms, it's making you look actually moronic.
>I have no idea how old you were decade ago.
I'm sorry that you're a mongoloid in that case.
>Do you not realize that 'you' isn't specific, right? Do you not understand how people talk casually?
Your argument doesn't even make any sense, you can't even explain what this algorithm that Tumblr uses even is or how it supposedly works (likely because you're tech-illiterate anyways).
>Literally all of the ones with access to mainstream media. Yes, it happened throughout Asia.
Weird, anime still has just as much smoking as usual, and yet smoking rates still dropped.
Almost like...media doesn't influence you that much if you're not moronic.
>No you absolute backbirth, I just used the term 'kid' because it's a reflexive way to describe the primary consumers of anime - young people.
You're implying that someone over the age of 20 is going to be "trained" by media, which makes me think you're actually fricking stupid.
But you seem like one of those out-of-touch 40 year old morons who seem so common on Cinemaphile, so that's no surprise.
>you can't even explain what this algorithm that Tumblr uses even is or how it supposedly works
I've already explained it. It's pretty similar to what most such sites use. If people engage with something, the algorithm will show them more of that thing, leading to more people with similar reactions being funneled into that bubble.
>Weird, anime still has just as much smoking as usual
Wew, showing your sprightly youth there. It absolutely doesn't. Neither does Japanese media in general, by the way.
>You're implying that someone over the age of 20 is going to be "trained" by media
Everyone is influenced by the things they consume. This isn't speculation, it's a well documented fact.
>I've already explained it.
No you haven't.
>If people engage with something, the algorithm will show them more of that thing, leading to more people with similar reactions being funneled into that bubble.
You need to prove that tumblr makes use of such an algorithm.
Typically how tumblr works is whatever gets reblogged most is what gets spread around, and people only reblog things they like/agree with.
So if those people DON'T like porn they wouldn't be exposed to it anyways, it's something the site's userbase specifically seeks out because they don't like it and don't want it on the platform.
>Everyone is influenced by the things they consume.
There's a difference between being "influenced" and being "trained."
People are not "trained" by media, this has been debunked time and time again when it comes to the proliferation of violent media (though Americans such as yourself seem to think this only applies to violence and nothing else, since, again, you're stupid).
Saying that a e-girl anime is going to "train" people to become pedophiles is just as moronic as saying that Grand Theft Auto trains people to become violent sociopaths.
>You need to prove that tumblr makes use of such an algorithm.
No, I do not need to prove that a social media site uses the most widely proliferated type of content sorting algorithm among social media sites.
>Saying that a e-girl anime is going to "train" people to become pedophiles
I didn't say it would. I said it trains them to be more okay with paedophilia. And this, too, is pretty well demonstrated - people that are into anime ARE way more likely to defend pedoshit, even if they're not specifically into it. The reason being that they're exposed to it constantly and, yes, trained, to see it as a normalized, routine thing that is present throughout the things they consume.
Not American, by the way.
>No, I do not need to prove that a social media site uses the most widely proliferated type of content sorting algorithm among social media sites.
An algorithm that you can't even explain by the way, which you tried to explain using metrics that aren't even widely used on Tumblr.
>I didn't say it would. I said it trains them to be more okay with paedophilia. And this, too, is pretty well demonstrated - people that are into anime ARE way more likely to defend pedoshit, even if they're not specifically into it.
That's because people that are into anime tend to be proponents of free expression.
Likely because they know how moronic an argument it is to say that "You need to ban [X] because it might cause [Y]."
>The reason being that they're exposed to it constantly and, yes, trained, to see it as a normalized, routine thing that is present throughout the things they consume.
No, again, it's because anime fans tend to, again, be proponents of free expression.
Largely because of something as simple as pic related.
>Inb4 "i-it's all fake, they're hiding the crimes, their REAL crime rates are totally, uhh, 20x higher!"
That one's my favourite cope from white westerners.
>Not American, by the way.
You sure act moronic like one.
>Japan underreports rapes because the nation engages in human trafficking nation and is massively corrupt
>this means it's actually the nasty gaijin who are the real rapists
lol
>"I-It's under-reported, t-the REAL crime rate is totally 20x higher!"
Again, my favourite cope.
It's true in both the West and Japan, no one knows what the true rates are
Stop flirting! You two should just hook up and get it over with.
Fellow lefty here who hates e-girlshit, but how is a kid being attracted to another kid "fricked up and weird?"
>Claims to know how the "wokes" feel about shit.
>Also claims to not engage with any woke messengers or even social media generally
Hmm...
>objectification
Objectification is bad writing and should be b***hed about no matter what. It's also not synonymous with sexualization. You can, in fact, sexualize someone without objectifying them. And a lot of well-written shit does exactly that. Likewise you can objectify someone without sexualizing them.
>male gaze
That's deep cut film/feminist theory bullshit that the average person is neither going to know nor care about, including the average woke person. It's also a subject of academic debate, so presenting it as something purely b***hed about is nonsense.
Also, I get the feeling you've seen a bunch of anime avatars and are lying to avoid outright admitting you're talking out your ass if you're even familiar with this term.
>>Also claims to not engage with any woke messengers or even social media generally
Believe it or not, not engaging with them doesn't mean I don't see the moronic shit they post.
>Objectification is bad writing
Alright then, so you agree that wokes dislike fanservice.
Glad we agree.
>That's deep cut film/feminist theory bullshit that the average person is neither going to know nor care about
The average person is not woke, so that's an irrelevant point.
>Believe it or not, not engaging with them doesn't mean I don't see the moronic shit they post.
And yet you aren't familiar with their anime avatars?
Yeah, nah. Either you see the posts and the avatars or neither.
>Alright then, so you agree that wokes dislike fanservice.
>objectification
>fanservice
You literally just don't know what words mean.
>The average person is not woke
Are you saying you are woke?
>And yet you aren't familiar with their anime avatars?
Having an anime avatar doesn't mean anything, fricking Elon Musk has had an anime avatar before, the frick's your point?
>You literally just don't know what words mean.
Whatever helps you cope.
>Are you saying you are woke?
If that's what you assume then I can only assume that you are illiterate.
Or stupid.
Or likely both.
>Having an anime avatar doesn't mean anything
It means you engage with that anime, many of which are sexualized.
>If that's what you assume
No, that's not what I assume. Just pointing out conceding that the average person doesn't know what male gaze is means you don't act like the average person.
You said obviously wokes would know about it, but if you aren't woke and you know about it, that means you're deliberately engaging with woke shit despite not being woke.
You're literally hatereading/watching wokeshit.
Wokeshit lives in your head rent free.
>It means you engage with that anime, many of which are sexualized.
No, it doesn't.
Having an anime avatar from a specific anime means nothing, plenty of people will literally grab random images that they think look cute or hot without knowing where they're from.
That's like saying posting a reaction image on Cinemaphile of an anime means you've engaged with it, how are you this fricking stupid?
>Just pointing out conceding that the average person doesn't know what male gaze is means you don't act like the average person.
And what's your point?
>You said obviously wokes would know about it, but if you aren't woke and you know about it, that means you're deliberately engaging with woke shit despite not being woke.
No shit, I'm engaging with your dumbass right now you moron.
And I don't watch or read any wokeshit, I'm only exposed to it by people like you or /misc/tards.
>No, it doesn't.
Yes it does.
>And I don't watch or read any wokeshit
I have literally never seen ANYONE ever bring up male gaze except in a leftist video essay or right wingers like you b***hing about leftists b***hing about it.
Acting like it's some sort of prominent left wing talking point that it's normal to be aware of isn't normal. You're seeking info like that shit out, to b***h about it.
>Yes it does.
No, it doesn't.
Again, it's like arguing that using a reaction image from a show means you've watched it.
>I have literally never seen ANYONE ever bring up male gaze except in a leftist video essay or right wingers like you b***hing about leftists b***hing about it.
>I have never seen people bring up a left-wing talking point outside of people who are left-wing
Yea, no shit, are you fricking stupid?
No one said that left-wing social talking points are popular, they're largely spouted almost exclusively by annoying white progressives nowadays, YOU are the one arguing that these people aren't sex-negative when it comes to fanservice men enjoy you moron.
Did you forget what the original argument was?
right on the nose anon!
Built for cunnilingus.
This, wokeshitters hate anything for "the male gaze" while still being "kink positive"
pedoshit is in it's own hated category of subhuman behavior. beware of pedoscums. they attempt to weasel into any group that they think will champion them, or manipulate a situation to get someone to argue for them, just so they can jerk it to pedo drawings.
>little girl who is clearly a lesbian shown wanting to bang her friend
If this were a Western show, you'd be b***hing about groomers or some shit
If that were a western show she wouldn't be shaped like this.
Shaped like what, big hipped? You could take screenshots of Mei and Abby from Turning Red at odd angles too, it doesn't prove anything.
>You could take screenshots of Mei and Abby from Turning Red at odd angles too
Okay, then do it.
Make sure it's also a close up of their butt, and that they're not wearing pants.
Wow, a woman bathing, you are right anon you never see that on western comics.
>literal fat waito piggu
well played anon
Anon, Unnatural is a no-name "adult" comic for furries that no one outside of Cinemaphile and e621 has heard of.
Fire Force is a top 10 yearly shonen manga, and is in the top 200 all-time bestsellers.
So what you are you saying is that comic lack of sales have nothing to do with them being woke or lacking cheesecake, since comics filled scantily clothed women can still sell like shit?
Glad we could come to an agreement,
Comics lack of sales more has to do with them being shit.
And also the cheesecake being lame compared to manga means I have no reason to ever buy a lame cheesecake comic.
>Like 20 shows over the course of 30-40 years
Damn, anime bros...
We're on the same level as mutts with gay sex in all their shows and trans flags in kid's shows.
Theres a lot more gay manga being sold than gay comics. Boys Love has actually been booming and selling midgrade shounen levels according to manga publisher roundtables.
>Theres a lot more gay manga being sold than gay comics.
There's a lot more manga in general being sold than comics.
Even in context, theres a much higher percentage of gay manga being sold than gay comics. Entirely because of comics failure to attract female audiences.
>Even in context, theres a much higher percentage of gay manga being sold than gay comics.
Not really, stuff like Heartstopper and Gender Queer sell better than capeshit, they just aren't sexy or hot to women like yaoi manga are.
>Boys Love has actually been booming and selling midgrade shounen levels according to manga publisher roundtables.
Not sure where you saw that, the top sellers lists are still almost entirely shounen and seinen.
I think the only yaoi manga I see in top selling lists is Given.
Even when looking at the top selling authors in America from last year, there're like 2 yaoi authors with the rest being shounen, seinen, and shoujo authors.
Did this dude really include Takt Op. Destiny (which takes place in America) and try to call it woke for having a black dude in it?
It's so funny watching japs trying to be woke, it's like they're using chopsticks to handle a spoon
God they draw worse than calartists
Good lord no, have you seen the garbage that calarts types shit out?
One of the top anime right now also features a lesbian and a genderfluid character too.
And Parallel Paradise features multiple lesbian couples and crossdressing, but I doubt anyone would actually call that manga woke.
Unless they're moronic.
You dimbulb, Japan was doing trans long before woke was a thing. The difference is they don't shove it down your throat unless it has significant relwvance to the plot. And even then they remember that the plot comes first
>b-but comics do that too-
No. No they don't. This wouldn't be an issue if they did.
>The difference is they don't shove it down your throat unless it has significant relwvance to the plot.
Which it didn't really in that anime Toonami aired. Plot's still exactly the fricking same even if the MC's a straight dude.
>Did you forget what the original argument was?
I already won the original argument. At this point I was just mocking you for having to lie to even continue to b***h.
Remember? You're having to deny awareness of evidence in order to not engage with it. And not only are you lying about awareness of evidence, you're lying about hatewatching woke bullshit, which is only reinforced by you claiming woke bullshit is obscure shit and also that you are aware of woke bullshit.
You are a pathetic human being.
>I already won the original argument.
Not really, you just pretended that woke types b***hing about fanservice doesn't happen, which is equivalent to plugging your ears and going "lalalala, I can't hear you."
>At this point I was just mocking you for having to lie to even continue to b***h.
Lie about what?
>And not only are you lying about awareness of evidence, you're lying about hatewatching woke bullshit
Lol, I don't know what kind of sad life you live, but I don't waste time watching or reading shit I don't like, the only reason I know about any of this shit is because morons like you who constantly espouse it post here.
You're just like /misc/tards in a way, only /misc/tards are somehow less disingenuous and slimy, which is pretty impressive on your part.
But yes, woke types abhor hetero fanservice, I'm sorry you can't accept this objective fact.
Smaller than webtoon
The majority of it is localized manga or Dogman. Probably 25% max is big 2 capeshit comics
The big 2 wish they were 25% of the market.
It's amazing how much things have changed since 2016.
We went from the book channel being a good 20-30% smaller than the comic store channel with GNs outpacing comics by a measly 30% to the book channel nearing double the size of the comic store channel and GNs selling 3x what comics sell.
It's also very easy to see where a lot of that growth has come from.
10% of it is literally Dog Man, lol. One guy is ten percent. ONE GUY.
All of it
And most of them are from graphic novels, which means, you know, manga LMAO
This is well above the record high of $ 1.6 billion in 1993, the heyday of comic culture!!
>BERSERK was Dark Horse's best-selling comic.
>Weird choice of words. Why not say "book", or "franchise"?
>It's a bit too sterile.
>"Story"?
>It's more than just a story, they're not selling novels.
>Then why don't you call it "manga"?
>Uh... I... listen, comic book sales are going through the roof right now, and that's really the important message.
I'm starting to get the "how much of that is manga" meme.
who the frick are you quoting
Are you autistic?
American comics deserve more sales
Not including Marvel and DC of course their comics are garbage ever since the 90s
I think that a lot of image comics were sold in 2021.
>dollar sales not unit sales
how much is that adjusted for inflation, how much higher is the average issue price now compared to 10 years ago? how much of these sales are form new western comic releases and not form re-releases of decade old western comics or manga?
>how much of these sales are form new western comic releases and not form re-releases of decade old western comics or manga?
it's comichron so probably very little?
>it's comichron
It's not actually, comichron's yearly sales estimates include data from NPD Bookscan, ComicHub, and their own estimates.
And the biggest publisher in terms of revenue in NPD BookScan was Viz, who brought in over $200 million by themselves.
Most of it is manga. Capeshit books are irrelevant.
So what percentage is localized manga?
also
it says digital sales, but they aren't counting token and coin shit from webtoons are they?
that still doesn't separate capeshit from manga
also do viz and darkhorse still put out manga floppies?
>that still doesn't separate capeshit from manga
That's the point. It allows them to co-opt ownership of other peoples' creations, much like localisers will advocate for being credited as co-writers/co-creators or even having their name above the manga author's
>localisers will advocate for being credited as co-writers/co-creators or even having their name above the manga author's
wat....
Zack Davisson's already screencapped in this thread and he's one of those squirrel-brains who's like "when you're reading a manga 95% of the writing is me so therefore I should be credited as the main writer"
Twitter is full of a lot of dreadful cliques with wagon-circling and the localiser community is one of them
>that still doesn't separate capeshit from manga
Yes, it does, only things solds trough direct market are counted for the comic books sales, manga is not sold through the direct market so it falls under the graphic novels category,
>Graphic novel sales were especially strong in the manga category, and periodical comics also had a great year, easily beating 2019.
>While graphic novels lead the way, comic sales also exhibited high growth in 2021,” Griepp noted. “Graphic novels were up an astounding 76% growth across channels, while comics were up 53% vs. 2020 and up 23% vs. 2019
>As presented above and in the accompanying infographics, the analysis by Comichron and ICv2 was divided up between periodical comics (what some call "floppies" or "pamphlets"), graphic novels, and digital download-to-own sales
https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales/industrywide/2021-industrywide.html
>do viz and darkhorse still put out manga floppies?
Not for a long time.
so "comics" are all western comics?
so capeshit is just plateauing? actually it's hard to tell really since I assume it includes all non-cape western comics too.
>so "comics" are all western comics?
Basically yes.
> assume it includes all non-cape western comics too
It does, here are the figures for this 2021 comic book sales:
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2021.html
>All the growth was manga
figures
>all the growth went to manga
Pfff hahahahah wokehomosexuals BTFO
O U C H
>has to specify "books" since capeshit in general is the most influential media ever and xer precious mangoes are constantly aping it
lol!
>graph about book sales
>but but what about lunchboxes
>>has to specify "books" since capeshit in general is the most influential media ever
DBZ is more important to most of the world than even Superman. Gay movies pushed by billionaire hollywood studios that cannot fail if even one person somewhere goes to watch it is not a measure of influence.
If you want to spend a Cinemaphile thread talking about book sales jerking off capeshit movies, there's a place for you Wrong board
It's amazing how much weebs feel the need to damage-control without actually doing a good job of it every time someone implies American comics may not be doing terrible. Stupid consolewar homosexuals.
it seems so difficult to find numbers on capeshit floppy sales though...
If western comics are doing so good why do craetors keep whining and doomposting about it on twitter?
Because that's what twitter is for.
Because almost all of that growth is from manga sales. 2021 saw a 170% increase in manga sales from 2020, which is why there is a huge spike. You do realize very little of that money is going to the hands of Americans, right?
Based manga creators cucking American comic sales charts. A bit of payback for the bombs, before Godzilla becomes real
>weebs
This word doesn't apply anymore because anybody who reads comic books anymore has some % of it that's manga. American Comics are just THAT shitty.
And you have nobody to blame but you, yourself, for that trainwreck. Please, enjoy your self-inflicted irrelevance.
Capeshit is a cancerous tumor that deserves to crash and burn.
Comic sales are just floppy/capeshit sales.
Graphic novels include everything from manga to TPBs to kid's comics.
That said, the vast majority of the growth in the GN sector is from manga and kid's comics.
Threadly reminder that manga are comics, and everyone who engages in a 'manga vs comics' debate is a subhuman moron and should be beaten to death.
American comics have become pathetic.
rightoids should be mocked but leftoids should also be mocked
this whole school of people that are like "no manga is woke and Kill La Kill is a subversive satire parody, that's why it's OK to like it" should be mocked
>le enlightened centrist
kys
>le
reddit
do none of you get tired of arguing about this shit every single day?
The seeds of discord and chaos please my dark lords and I seek to be their loyal vassal.
This thread is full of reddit and /misc/ morons but here, I'll explain incase anyone wants to know.
This doesn't cover comics sold to customers, it's only comics sold to comic shops. Comic shops will buy 100 issues of an issue just to get a certain variant, and probably 50% of the original order will go unsold and end up in the dollar bin in a month.
And then there's the price of comics, which is what most of the increase comes from. a few years ago, all dc comics were 2.99. Now they're at least 3.99 and often 4.99 or more. Marvel's average issue price is now $5.
When you combine the over ordering of issues + the increase per unit, you get what seems like growth.
If you look at what each comic actually fricking sells, you will see that 2021 wasa gigantic letdown, and DC are in a massive shit hole, and Marvel aren't far behind.
shut up dummy you are no industry insider, you are just a dummy and reddit spacing lover
If you keep saying it and jerking off maybe it'll come true.
>All those words to say "you're triggered, I know you're triggered, I'm not the one who's triggered"
Ah frick, now I'm triggered because I responded lol
The whole conceit of "people morally complain about [thing], that means they would never be hypocritical or cover up for being into [thing or thing-adjacent]' is preposterous and repeatedly debunked throughout history
Being a hypocrite is even worse than just being against something normally.
Highest in dollars, not in number of comics sold. 1940s comics like Captain Marvel sold over a million issues monthly at ten cents each. Adjust that for today's prices.
Nice to see this boomer getting dabbed on constantly for the last 2 years straight.
They're grouping movies into that, aren't they?
>go to Barnes and Noble
>manga section doubles in size every year, flooded with zoomers socializing with each other (soul btw)
>comic section is facing the wall and it's entirely Batman and Avengers collections, no one in sight
go back to Cinemaphile pl0x
>The North American comics industry in 2021 has the highest sales ever!
That's what happens when you nearly double the price of comics
No one cares about comic books anymore, It's all manga