The thing I didn't like about this movie is that it never gives any indication that Arthur/Joker is a secret genius or intelligent in anyway
hes basically just portrayed as a normal guy with mental issues.
The thing I didn't like about this movie is that it never gives any indication that Arthur/Joker is a secret genius or intelligent in anyway
yeah hes literally me
>it never gives any indication that Arthur/Joker is a secret genius or intelligent in anyway
Why does he need to be? He's not the traditional Joker.
then whats the point of him being joker if hes just a normal crazy guy whos gonna get arrested, thrown in the bin and forgotten
how is he going to have beef with that universes bruce wayne if he isn't hyper-intelligent
By the time Bruce grows up into Batman age Arthur will be 60something, who cares?
>who cares if movies make sense
Cinemaphile everyone
it's an alternative take on the character. this kind of shit happens all the time in comics. stop being such a fricking autist.
>how is he going to have beef with that universes bruce wayne if he isn't hyper-intelligent
Doesn't he inspire a who generation of new anarchists? One of those could reasonably become the intelligent, devious Joker. He's too old to be that Bruce Wayne's rival anyway.
> then whats the point of him being joker if hes just a normal crazy guy whos gonna get arrested, thrown in the bin and forgotten
Getting Todd Phillips funding for the movie.
Irony when he did the exact opposite, and so well, everyone fell for it.
its not like he had the idea before the joker branding, it was always what if we made Oscarbait Joker
NOOOO YOU CANT JUST TELL THE STORY IN A DIFFERENT WAY NOOOOO I HAVE TO HEAR THE SAME STORY WITH THE SAME CHARACTER THE SAME WAY EVERY TIME NOOOOOOOOOO this is what you sound like you moronic homosexual Black person b***h please go eat a bullet so i never have to read your stupid homosexual posts ever again you piece of shit
Dude they just used Batman names for brand recognition
Why would he need to be a secret genius or intelligent? The entire movie is about how some mental patient going off his meds accidentally inspires a riot just by doing crazy shit because people are moronic and will lionize whatever or whoever is convenient to excuse their shit behaviour. Incredible how this predicted George Floyd riots a year later.
joker didn't even need to threaten a pregnant mother either, just spook one
Funny that all the journos were scaremongering about an incel revolution caused by this movie when the real threat was a different shade all along
normal guys aren't intelligent?
no, normal people are npc's with pre-approved "opinions" that they don't actually understand but pretend to believe so they can fit in and get through their mundane life as painlessly as possible
He drives his power from the cruelty of Gotham's people. He's not some external force of evil. If you were not evil yourself, he would be no threat to you. That's what makes him terrifying - he exposes Gotham's sins.
I don't think being a genius is generally a core part of Joker's character. I know he's acquired a ton of stupid powers and abilities over the decades he's existed as a character (is he still "super sane?") but most of his most famous incarnations are just him being some flavor of crazy guy with varying levels of camp. Ledger, Hamill, even Dark Knight Returns or Killing Joke Joker don't really come off as super-geniuses.
Not that this movie is in any way an attempt to build a "faithful" Joker character. Philip's pitch to Joaquin for the movie was literally “We’re gonna take $55 million from Warner Bros. and do whatever the hell we want.”
Ledger is so intelligent in that movie it seems he has the power of precognition
>I don't think being a genius is generally a core part of Joker's character.
I disagree, he's only able to be Batman's rival because he's a genius criminal.
No, he’s only able to be Batman’s rival because in reality the line between Batman and Joker is razor thin, and Joker knows it and I think part of Batman knows it to and thinks there may be something to save in Joker even though he is literally the only irredeemable villain ever made.
What super power is super sane?
Yeah, why didn't he drive around in the jokermobile? Or spray laughing gas into crowds? Not even a hand buzzer. It's like they didn't even read the comic book.
I hated how effeminate he was.
And the laughing was a mental tic? Just lame. Fricking lame.
I actually thought it was a really nice ironic touch that when he finally becomes the joker he stops laughing or smiling.
The movie is literally taxi driver with a joker coat of paint.
Robert Deniro being in it is a big hint
Except that taxi driver is incredibly mediocre and arthur wasn’t looking for an excuse to be a hero
different scorsese and de niro picture, actually
king of comedy
They very very strongly hinted he was not human. I think you’ll see this explored in 2.
Trips of truth I missed this what did you see?
They did the whole thing from The Omen where he was adopted actually so you don’t actually know where he comes from, plus he seems to have some weird control of reality that he’s not aware of yet.
its not just that, i got the vibe that this joker was literally intellectually moronic or some shit, not just some mental issues
He's literally brain damaged from being diddled and bashed by his prostitute mother's frick buddies
That "movie" is just an advertisement for smoking. If you watched that evil filth you should die
>joaquin wins an oscar for this tripe
>not the master
we live in a meme
it's not a movie to understand and contemplate. it's just pure soul and feels. just soak it in
Watching the movie again alert to Arthur's character development, this moment is incredibly satisfying. His struggles as a comedian come from his straining to understand everybody else's sense of humor, and his struggles as Arthur (even including his appearance on the Murray Show) come from his straining to explain himself to people who don't care and don't understand. Now, having accepted they wouldn't get it, he finally gets release from his internal conflicts. At the same time, he's hit moral rock bottom because his Joker id no longer has a restraining superego.
Also, the last shot is absolutely perfect and ties the movie up beautifully.
I just rewatched it too and I noticed how during his segment on the Murray Franklin show he acts like a total sperg when he’s forcing himself to go thru his joke book, but the moment he admits to killing the yuppies on the subway he is able to finally hold his own conversationally with someone powerful like Murray.
Watch the scene and its like a light flicks on whenever he goes into Jokah mode
He comes off as highly articulate in that scene and has absolutely no problem getting his point across and be even gets some zingers in
I think Arthur is smart despite his mental illness and anti social disposition, but the whole movie he just never had any confidence to utilize it.
>I think Arthur is smart despite his mental illness
the deleted scene of arthur writing jokes in his journal and what those jokes are refutes this.
WRONG! Over the course of the film he gets off his medication that was suppressing his genius.
EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD IS LITERALLY WRONG.
Read this post and watch it again I double-dog dare you.
Over the course of the film Joker discovers he is Bruce Wayne's half-brother, the result of an affair Thomas Wayne had with Penny Fleck. He starts moronic due to medication and regains his genius intellect as he comes off it.
To protect his political ambitions Thomas Wayne, (who likely made his fortune through corruption and is responsible for the state of Gotham), falsified documents about an 'adoption' and sent Penny to Arkham to be drugged and brainwashed with a version of events that didn't happen. Dr. Stoner, (a psychiatrist supervillain from the comics), isn't recounting facts when he's talking to Penny, he's TELLING her the version of events he wants her to believe because he's working for Thomas Wayne. She remembers what actually happened, but she's been rendered semi-moronic.
When Arthur goes to confront Thomas Wayne, (look at the mirror, reflecting the truth that they do look alike as stated), Wayne lies and says he's not his father. Arthur goes to Arkham to get Penny's records, (which are now missing so Batman can't later figure out his origin), and they are false, but he believes just long enough to kill her himself. Later he finds a photo with a love note from Thomas Wayne confirming his mother wasn't lying. The genetic genius, (and mental imbalance/violent tendencies), he shares with his father and brother comes through more and more. He realises at this point he was lied to and killed his own mother, but no longer gives a frick.
His brain damage was likely caused not by some 'boyfriend' but by Thomas Wayne himself when he tried to defend her from Thomas hair-trigger temper, while she and Arthur were put up in a crappy apartment by him.
It's a Joker origin story, the genius Joker, that includes Batman. Your MIND = BLOWN.
This is also why Arthur gravitates to Murray as a father figure, because DeNiro also looks like Thomas Wayne.
Notice his little dance is inspired by a butterfly crawling out of its chrysalis. He's been a dumb catapillar all his life due to medication suppressing him and he's been unable to get a handle on shit, writes like a moron, etc. But without the medication he starts catching on real quick because genius IQ.
The butler likely knows the truth but is protecting Bruce and likely will help sanitise Thomas Wayne's company after his death while he takes care of Bruce into adulthood. Leaving Batman with an idealised image of his father, who he doesn't know is actually the cause of Gotham's ingrained corruption.
It's basically a Shakespearean drama where Joker knows the truth by the end and personally hates Thomas Wayne, and Bruce by extension being the legitimate brother who got the life he never had. Meanwhile indirectly causing the death of his parents and thus creating Batman. It's like pottery, it's rhymes.
When you watch it again and see how obvious it is, (despite some of my stuff about Wayne's corruption being speculation), you're going to feel like a real fricking idiot that you had a pack of 'muh Taxi Driver' pseuds and 'muh incel' media garbage, make you miss a truly great film, and genius Joker origin story.