What do you mean he wasn't. She as his wife is supposed to support him above everyone else. That's the whole point of marriage, she had absolutely no reason to suspect him, she was some low self esteem b***h who needed her evil sister's approval over her husband's acceptance.
>What do you mean he wasn't.
His general behaviour was very suspicious and he was becoming more evasive and erratic. After your husband comes home covered in blood the night your niece goes missing and is later found to be murdered and he starts becoming more and more evasive you're going to suspect he was involved.
Unprecedented?
Do you understand that divorce is a thing that happens?
She knew her husband had a traumatic childhood, and was reserved, but he came home covered in fricking blood and then lied about what happened? And then continued to lie?
We, as viewers, know and understand enough to be more empathetic. But what she saw was shocking, and definitely horrifying, meanwhile she's trying to raise their son who's like fricking ten or something.. Yes obviously stand by your man yes she should have done this or that or whatever. In an idea world. But what she saw freaked her out. And let's be real.. Do you think a very strong woman is the type of person who would marry a guy like Dave? Or do you think she was perhaps of somewhat weak character as well?
Side note we don't actually know how much she knew about Dave's past. Getting raped is not the type of thing men from Boston are quick to open up about. Yes, even to their wives. For all we knows, Dave's latent strange behavior came totally out of left field for her.
Don't look at this through the lens of some perfect world kiddo.
You tell the police, you don't tell your psychotic sister and her criminal husband. If she was genuinely concerned and scared, she would have handled it better than she did.
>You tell the police, you don't tell your psychotic sister and her criminal husband
No argument there. But I guess she'd seen the cops haul him in twice and both times they ended up letting him go. One could argue the guilt was tearing her up and she felt there was nothing that else she could do.
>If she was genuinely concerned and scared, she would have handled it better than she did.
that's... not how it works
5 months ago
Anonymous
>You tell the police, you don't tell your psychotic sister and her criminal husband
No argument there. But I guess she'd seen the cops haul him in twice and both times they ended up letting him go. One could argue the guilt was tearing her up and she felt there was nothing that else she could do.
She was friends with a fricking police - kevin bacon who also grew up with her husband, instead she tells the one person guaranteed to frick up her life???
5 months ago
Anonymous
>She was friends with a fricking police
No she wasn't. And neither was Dave . He specifically tells her, "He's not my friend. Case you haven't figured that out yet" in regards to Sean. Sean says the same thing to his partner about Dave. They knew each other twenty years ago. They are not close and his wife definitely is not with Sean.
>more "in an ideal world" posting
Brah it's not like she wants the homie to go to jail. She wanted to resolve the situation in house with her friends. Not saying she wanted him dead but she didn't know at all what to do and she was weak.
Also, there was no reason to think Jimmy would straight up murder him. And at this point, Jimmy wasn't fricking psychotic lol.
He had been out of the criminal life for years and years. He ran a convenience store. He remarried out of the life. He was about to take his youngest to her first fricking communion, dude. You're using your viewers knowledge of the film to cloud your judgment of how characters within the story would have felt. Don't be moronic
It wasn't hot, it was appaling
It was hot as frick and I want a wife as severe as that.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You are so fricked.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're low T
My own proclivities notwithstanding the rest of my post is entirely correct, and accurate.
5 months ago
Anonymous
How do you resolve a murder in family anon with a former criminal?
5 months ago
Anonymous
She wasn't necessarily trying to resolve the murder she was just trying to figure out what was going on with her husband.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Also >former criminal
homosexual. They lived in southie. Get off your high horse
I actually saw this in the theater all those years ago. I was so hyped due to the cast and good reviews, but really didn't like it.
I was a kid back then and don't really remember it at all so maybe I would like it more now, though.
I liked it. Couple things
1. The truth about what happened is totally irrelevant
2. Even the official story, as described by the kids about what happened, really doesn't make sense and is probably not actually true
3. Even if none of the shit happened how it did, it's likely Tim Robbins marriage was going to fail anyways. He was a broken person. Marred by his past. Half dead. A vampire
4. Sean Penn's wife going a lady Macbeth on him at the end was hot as frick. She was literally happy his daughter died.
Personally, I really liked how it definitively reestablished Jimmy as a criminal. This is not the type of movie that should have a sequel, but you bet your ass I would have shown up for a crime drama about Jimmy the G and Kevin Bacon playing cat and mouse crime games.
Ultimately, the film is about how Kevin bacon and Sean Penn failed Tim Robbins. How they failed him, and how society failed him. And nothing changed becuase they got older. Society failed him again. The town killed Dave, not just Jimmy.
I alsoiked the touch of having adult tin Robbins portray Dave up in the window after he was returned home. It's like his childhood trauma made him into the person he would become. It's a great kino.
Society can fail him all the way but his wife's behaviour is unprecendented. I literally never saw it coming. The twist is unrealistic. I mean why would she marry someone like that then betray him so easily and so brutally, like she was snitching on a total stranger.
Unprecedented?
Do you understand that divorce is a thing that happens?
She knew her husband had a traumatic childhood, and was reserved, but he came home covered in fricking blood and then lied about what happened? And then continued to lie?
We, as viewers, know and understand enough to be more empathetic. But what she saw was shocking, and definitely horrifying, meanwhile she's trying to raise their son who's like fricking ten or something.. Yes obviously stand by your man yes she should have done this or that or whatever. In an idea world. But what she saw freaked her out. And let's be real.. Do you think a very strong woman is the type of person who would marry a guy like Dave? Or do you think she was perhaps of somewhat weak character as well?
Side note we don't actually know how much she knew about Dave's past. Getting raped is not the type of thing men from Boston are quick to open up about. Yes, even to their wives. For all we knows, Dave's latent strange behavior came totally out of left field for her.
Don't look at this through the lens of some perfect world kiddo.
some interesting points but >Ultimately, the film is about how Kevin bacon and Sean Penn failed Tim Robbins. How they failed him, and how society failed him. And nothing changed becuase they got older. Society failed him again. The town killed Dave, not just Jimmy.
what world do you live in? they all have families and separate lives, people grow apart. you act like kevin bacon and sean penn needed to sit there and be a therapist every day for him. you're on your own in this life and you gotta make an effort to keep friends in your life. if you're a moody c**t like tim robbins, nobody is gonna want to be around you
Well..
THEY felt they failed him, as youths, when he got taken off in the car. Whether that's really their fault, I'd say no, but that's how they felt about it.
As adults, "society" failed them. I'd absolutely say Jimmy failed him. No he doesn't have to hold him by the dick and drag him to therapy. But he fricking stabbed the guy, man lol.
I suppose though I was making a broader point about how "le society" fails the mentally unwell and let's them slip through these cracks. You look me straight in the eye and tell me Jimmy and Sean weren't wracked with guilt as they sat on the curb at the very end of the film. Maybe they didn't really "fail" him but they sure felt as though they did
Jimmy murders Dave after he admits to killing Katie.
Katie was actually murdered by Brendan's mute younger brother and his friend.
Dave had beaten a pedophile getting a blowjob from a child prostitute to death.
Also, the mute kid and his friend claim it was an accident but it is heavily implied through subtext that it was done so that his older brother, the girls boyfriend, wouldn't abscond with her. Mute kid needed his older bro around. Their mom was horrible to them
It would be hard to prove, since it is in subtext, but
1. Ray Jr was a loving brother who learned sign language so that his brother (who could hear and understand spoken language) didn't feel alone in having to use ASL to communicate
2. Their mother, the only person who would be left in the house was an uncaring angry piece of shit, who one could imagine would not be very patient with a disabled son. It seems quite clear ray Jr was much more nurturing than she could ever be
3. Iirc mute-o knew about Ray Jr's plan to leave...
4. Ray Jr angrily confronts muto, enragedly shouting about how much he loved her.. Muto is.. Unemotional? Not sorrowful for an accidental deed..
All those points together to me would suggest Muto and Co did it with intent, and that Muto was more or less happy with the result. And then they came up with some phony baloney story about chasing her down the street with hockey sticks to scare her to get the heat off em
>And then they came up with some phony baloney story about chasing her down the street with hockey sticks to scare her to get the heat off em
Except they did chase her down the street and beat her with hockey sticks. After shooting the engine block of her moving car in the middle of the street. That's why she's found in the park beaten and bloodied. It doesn't have any of the hallmarks of a planned and calculated murder. It's a stupid act followed by panic and completely bereft of rational thought.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Perhaps.. But why shoot the engine block? They wanted to scare her, sure.. Was there perhaps more motivation behind that?
5 months ago
Anonymous
They may have been playing around with the gun then saw her driving past and had a "watch this" moment. The way Sean recalls what happened spells it pretty clinically to me. Neither of the other tried to pin it on the other and their stories must have aligned. There's really nothing to suggest it was anything other than reckless teenagers being stupid. It's a reach imo.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah you could be right
Oh well
In either case doesn't effect my enjoyment much. My original thing was how the true story is pretty irrelevant to the plot of the movie
5 months ago
Anonymous
Hey, that's just my interpretation. Agreed it doesn't impact the enjoyment at all. tbh I think it's better in that the act that set the story in motion turns out to be as stupid and senseless as it gets and leaves even more destroyed lives in it wake with the chain reactions it causes.
I felt like slapping the wife for betraying her husband. Very dumb b***h.
I don't like that she did that either but tbh he wasn't giving her a lot of reasons to believe he was innocent.
What do you mean he wasn't. She as his wife is supposed to support him above everyone else. That's the whole point of marriage, she had absolutely no reason to suspect him, she was some low self esteem b***h who needed her evil sister's approval over her husband's acceptance.
>What do you mean he wasn't.
His general behaviour was very suspicious and he was becoming more evasive and erratic. After your husband comes home covered in blood the night your niece goes missing and is later found to be murdered and he starts becoming more and more evasive you're going to suspect he was involved.
You tell the police, you don't tell your psychotic sister and her criminal husband. If she was genuinely concerned and scared, she would have handled it better than she did.
>You tell the police, you don't tell your psychotic sister and her criminal husband
No argument there. But I guess she'd seen the cops haul him in twice and both times they ended up letting him go. One could argue the guilt was tearing her up and she felt there was nothing that else she could do.
>If she was genuinely concerned and scared, she would have handled it better than she did.
that's... not how it works
She was friends with a fricking police - kevin bacon who also grew up with her husband, instead she tells the one person guaranteed to frick up her life???
>She was friends with a fricking police
No she wasn't. And neither was Dave . He specifically tells her, "He's not my friend. Case you haven't figured that out yet" in regards to Sean. Sean says the same thing to his partner about Dave. They knew each other twenty years ago. They are not close and his wife definitely is not with Sean.
>more "in an ideal world" posting
Brah it's not like she wants the homie to go to jail. She wanted to resolve the situation in house with her friends. Not saying she wanted him dead but she didn't know at all what to do and she was weak.
Also, there was no reason to think Jimmy would straight up murder him. And at this point, Jimmy wasn't fricking psychotic lol.
He had been out of the criminal life for years and years. He ran a convenience store. He remarried out of the life. He was about to take his youngest to her first fricking communion, dude. You're using your viewers knowledge of the film to cloud your judgment of how characters within the story would have felt. Don't be moronic
It was hot as frick and I want a wife as severe as that.
You are so fricked.
You're low T
My own proclivities notwithstanding the rest of my post is entirely correct, and accurate.
How do you resolve a murder in family anon with a former criminal?
She wasn't necessarily trying to resolve the murder she was just trying to figure out what was going on with her husband.
Also >former criminal
homosexual. They lived in southie. Get off your high horse
I felt like slapping the mob bawd for that Daddy King speech.
I actually saw this in the theater all those years ago. I was so hyped due to the cast and good reviews, but really didn't like it.
I was a kid back then and don't really remember it at all so maybe I would like it more now, though.
This was East Side Dave’s movie of the decade for the 2000s as stated on the Ron and Fez show
I liked it. Couple things
1. The truth about what happened is totally irrelevant
2. Even the official story, as described by the kids about what happened, really doesn't make sense and is probably not actually true
3. Even if none of the shit happened how it did, it's likely Tim Robbins marriage was going to fail anyways. He was a broken person. Marred by his past. Half dead. A vampire
4. Sean Penn's wife going a lady Macbeth on him at the end was hot as frick. She was literally happy his daughter died.
Personally, I really liked how it definitively reestablished Jimmy as a criminal. This is not the type of movie that should have a sequel, but you bet your ass I would have shown up for a crime drama about Jimmy the G and Kevin Bacon playing cat and mouse crime games.
Ultimately, the film is about how Kevin bacon and Sean Penn failed Tim Robbins. How they failed him, and how society failed him. And nothing changed becuase they got older. Society failed him again. The town killed Dave, not just Jimmy.
I alsoiked the touch of having adult tin Robbins portray Dave up in the window after he was returned home. It's like his childhood trauma made him into the person he would become. It's a great kino.
Society can fail him all the way but his wife's behaviour is unprecendented. I literally never saw it coming. The twist is unrealistic. I mean why would she marry someone like that then betray him so easily and so brutally, like she was snitching on a total stranger.
women are just like that
Unprecedented?
Do you understand that divorce is a thing that happens?
She knew her husband had a traumatic childhood, and was reserved, but he came home covered in fricking blood and then lied about what happened? And then continued to lie?
We, as viewers, know and understand enough to be more empathetic. But what she saw was shocking, and definitely horrifying, meanwhile she's trying to raise their son who's like fricking ten or something.. Yes obviously stand by your man yes she should have done this or that or whatever. In an idea world. But what she saw freaked her out. And let's be real.. Do you think a very strong woman is the type of person who would marry a guy like Dave? Or do you think she was perhaps of somewhat weak character as well?
Side note we don't actually know how much she knew about Dave's past. Getting raped is not the type of thing men from Boston are quick to open up about. Yes, even to their wives. For all we knows, Dave's latent strange behavior came totally out of left field for her.
Don't look at this through the lens of some perfect world kiddo.
It wasn't hot, it was appaling
>I alsoiked the touch of having adult tin Robbins portray Dave up in the window after he was returned home.
I don't think that happens.
I'm pretty sure it does, it's just a silhouette, but the shape of it's head looks like Tim Robbins and not the kid actor
I'd look it up now but I'm in bed.
>I'm pretty sure it does, it's just a silhouette, but the shape of it's head looks like Tim Robbins and not the kid actor
I dunno.
To me? Looks like Robbins. I could be wrong.
some interesting points but
>Ultimately, the film is about how Kevin bacon and Sean Penn failed Tim Robbins. How they failed him, and how society failed him. And nothing changed becuase they got older. Society failed him again. The town killed Dave, not just Jimmy.
what world do you live in? they all have families and separate lives, people grow apart. you act like kevin bacon and sean penn needed to sit there and be a therapist every day for him. you're on your own in this life and you gotta make an effort to keep friends in your life. if you're a moody c**t like tim robbins, nobody is gonna want to be around you
Well..
THEY felt they failed him, as youths, when he got taken off in the car. Whether that's really their fault, I'd say no, but that's how they felt about it.
As adults, "society" failed them. I'd absolutely say Jimmy failed him. No he doesn't have to hold him by the dick and drag him to therapy. But he fricking stabbed the guy, man lol.
I suppose though I was making a broader point about how "le society" fails the mentally unwell and let's them slip through these cracks. You look me straight in the eye and tell me Jimmy and Sean weren't wracked with guilt as they sat on the curb at the very end of the film. Maybe they didn't really "fail" him but they sure felt as though they did
What was the ending I’ve forgotten
Jimmy murders Dave after he admits to killing Katie.
Katie was actually murdered by Brendan's mute younger brother and his friend.
Dave had beaten a pedophile getting a blowjob from a child prostitute to death.
Also, the mute kid and his friend claim it was an accident but it is heavily implied through subtext that it was done so that his older brother, the girls boyfriend, wouldn't abscond with her. Mute kid needed his older bro around. Their mom was horrible to them
I don't know how much of that's in the subtext. I genuinely think it was a case of two kids doing something stupid that got out of control.
It would be hard to prove, since it is in subtext, but
1. Ray Jr was a loving brother who learned sign language so that his brother (who could hear and understand spoken language) didn't feel alone in having to use ASL to communicate
2. Their mother, the only person who would be left in the house was an uncaring angry piece of shit, who one could imagine would not be very patient with a disabled son. It seems quite clear ray Jr was much more nurturing than she could ever be
3. Iirc mute-o knew about Ray Jr's plan to leave...
4. Ray Jr angrily confronts muto, enragedly shouting about how much he loved her.. Muto is.. Unemotional? Not sorrowful for an accidental deed..
All those points together to me would suggest Muto and Co did it with intent, and that Muto was more or less happy with the result. And then they came up with some phony baloney story about chasing her down the street with hockey sticks to scare her to get the heat off em
>And then they came up with some phony baloney story about chasing her down the street with hockey sticks to scare her to get the heat off em
Except they did chase her down the street and beat her with hockey sticks. After shooting the engine block of her moving car in the middle of the street. That's why she's found in the park beaten and bloodied. It doesn't have any of the hallmarks of a planned and calculated murder. It's a stupid act followed by panic and completely bereft of rational thought.
Perhaps.. But why shoot the engine block? They wanted to scare her, sure.. Was there perhaps more motivation behind that?
They may have been playing around with the gun then saw her driving past and had a "watch this" moment. The way Sean recalls what happened spells it pretty clinically to me. Neither of the other tried to pin it on the other and their stories must have aligned. There's really nothing to suggest it was anything other than reckless teenagers being stupid. It's a reach imo.
Yeah you could be right
Oh well
In either case doesn't effect my enjoyment much. My original thing was how the true story is pretty irrelevant to the plot of the movie
Hey, that's just my interpretation. Agreed it doesn't impact the enjoyment at all. tbh I think it's better in that the act that set the story in motion turns out to be as stupid and senseless as it gets and leaves even more destroyed lives in it wake with the chain reactions it causes.
I agree. The movie was kinda interesting to a point but that ending was frustrating
>imagine want a definite ending
filtered
*wanting
I didn't get this movie at all but I did like the vampire scene