In Aotc he asks obi wan to join him and defeat sidious saying that he controls the senate
Hardly a struggle against siths though, movie dooku is shown as an obedient lapdog, ehen he gets the plans for the death star on geonosis (because god forbid the empire just built the thing it needs an origin story) he immediately goes all the way to corouscant or whatever to give the plans to sidious
In Aotc he asks obi wan to join him and defeat sidious saying that he controls the senate
Hardly a struggle against siths though, movie dooku is shown as an obedient lapdog, ehen he gets the plans for the death star on geonosis (because god forbid the empire just built the thing it needs an origin story) he immediately goes all the way to corouscant or whatever to give the plans to sidious
Dooku was such a waste of what could have been a great concept. Rogue Jedi trying to pull one over on Sidious by joining him. Nope, he's just a generic bad guy.
I know, my point is that if a statement as simple as "There are heroes on both sides" confuses you then you're a leadhuffing boomer or gen xer or just a plain moron
>empire is bad just because, that makes it okay for luke to blow up a space station with thousands of people >oh and they're all wearing helmets, that makes them faceless and means you don't have to care when they get shot in the face and fall to their deaths! >the named officers in the empire are portrayed as one-dimensionally evil who constantly go back on deals in favor of being cruel for cruelty's sake >emperor is a shriveled old creature of a man who is a symbol of pure evil >darth vader's, and every other sith's, lightsaber is red on purpose to show that they're the bad guys while the good guys typically have blue >according to lucas, balancing the force means killing all the bad guys and the jedi are the good guys because they don't wear all black. anakin wearing darker clothes is supposed to be symbolic of his underlying darkness >separatist army consists solely of droids so that the good guys don't have to feel conflicted about carving them up with their lightsabers >even filoni's TCW, a show wholly approved by Lucas, does little to actually portray the separatists as anything other than the villains in every scenario
Even if we take Lucas at his word about the good found in evil people, and how good people can hand over power to evil, the story he's crafted since ANH can scarcely be viewed as anything other than childishly black-and-white.
Senator Palpatine is an upstanding member of the Republic government and I'll not stand for this slander insinuating he has any association with Darth Sidious.
Clearly you don't know the back story of Droid JAG-3R (known affectionately as the JAGER) that held off thirteen platoons of clone troopers during the battle of Dantooine. Of course you know of the Clone Commando on Coruscant who held off the Droid onslaught until Yoda's reinforcements arrived, but the republic media would never tell Jager's story.
As the omnipotent narrator, Lucas understands that on both sides of the conflict it would be a travesty to glorify ones war exploits and and vilify another's.
forget it, movies like this are too complicated for you.
stick to capeshit where they always have a clear good guy and bad guy so the children don't get confused.
The separatist alliance had people in it who thought they were legit fighting for freedom against the oppressive republic, but all their masters were actually CEOs and bankers and the whole movement was being run by the same shadowy cult that was ALSO secretly running the other side.
This is why the prequels outclass the OT by orders of magnitude. Literally the most poignant and on-point story with more modern relevancy than any work in the whole of the Western canon.
>The separatist alliance had people in it who thought they were legit fighting for freedom against the oppressive republic
This is never shown once in the prequel trilogy. No your clone wars fanfic doesn’t count.
It just shouldn’t have been robots and clones for 99% of all ground forces, the robots should’ve been led by actual flesh and blood separatists in the field that were fighting the Jedi.
A quote by Alto Stratus, of Jabiim. Separatist Commander.
>"There is no pain...there is only the force"--defeated Jedi Master
>"There is no pain? ANOTHER Jedi lie! This Jedi sits amongst the dead, and denies the existence of pain! Last week I saw my own cousin crawling in the mud, a blaster burn in her gut and her legs crushed by the Republic's war machines....WAS THAT PAIN JEDI!?!? And when she died in my arms...What did I feel, if not Pain?
>(Beheads Jedi)
>"The Jedi and Republic have brought only suffering to our world. But I promise you, soon every Jedi on Jabiim shall know our pain!"
Generals are not heroic, generals don’t fight even when they say they do and build their little legends for themselves. What they needed was some group of actual people with faces on the battlefield.
>speed watchers don't realize the Jedi were supposed to be fallible, resulting in their downfall in the first place
Filtered by a general audience movie from 2005
You had 17 years to get it speed watchers....
Also Dooku didn't know Palpatine was Sidious when he was getting his head cut off.
>speed watchers
Is this a thing? I feel like only someone whos dopamine receptors have been annihilated by twitter and tiktok and instagram would do this sort of thing
Dooku is the hero they are referring to in the opening crawl. Sidious is using his idealism to manipulate him. Much like Anakin later in the film. Dooku was going to have a turning moment like darth vader in the OT but he is executed by Anakin at the orders of Palpatine. "he is too dangerous to be kept alive" is said by Mace before he's about to execute Palpatine. It shows how the Jedi are just as unwise and reckless as Anakin. Since the last true Jedi "Qui-gon", was killed by the Sith.
some people just can't appreciate great writing sometimes. I'm sorry George.
As good as this sounds, it seems made up by fans to make sense of the prequels.
When does George acknowledge any of that?
maybe HALF right, but you're overlooking that Anakin is the violater both times
-kills Dooku even though it's wrong
-spares Palpatine even though it's wrong
it's impossible to frick up from both ends so badly unless you're on your way out into the darkside.
This was George's only attempts to make the conflict seem grey but it doesn't even work because everyone fighting on the entire other side are robots (I don't care what some obscure book says where a few people or aliens fought for them.)
the other side are clones though.... and it's established by characters like r2-d2 that droids have souls.
A galactic civil war between two disposable classes orchestrated by one man is pure kino writing.
Help me out, EUbros. My zoomie little brother shits on Legends constantly because of the memes about Skippy the Jedi Droid (based) and the Crying Mountain (cringe). How do I convince him to give it a shot instead of playing Outer Worlds for the tenth time?
I actually like the Plinkett reviews but this argument was predicated on a faulty understanding of the word "hero."
While hero can refer to someone with morally admirable qualities, it can also just refer to any legendary or powerful figure, regardless of their actual moral standing.
Dooku and such would fall under the category of "hero" under this definition despite not necessarily being morally "good."
If we are truly objective, we doesn't like him for soap opera reasons like Lucas has said, we see him as evil for what he has done to Anakin and Jedi in general. But his Empire was no worse that the thing that was before him. He offered shitons of opportunity for humans in the galaxy. Aliens were discriminated sure but when you look at the prequels most of them were already hostile and fricking buttholes towards humans even before the coming of Empire and always for no reasons.
I think the thing who sucked the most about the Empire is their communist policy, like when they wanted to nationalize the territories of farmers in Tatooine.
Sheev was very cruel against Jedi but it's part of the game: a war between two factions, they wanted sheev death only because he has differents beliefs and practice of the Force.
There's an invasion coming. A massive assault force of dark ships, shadowy figures, and weapons of great power, based on organic technology of a sort we've never seen before. We believe these Far Outsiders, as we call them, already have a foothold at the far edge of the galaxy, and even now have scouting parties seeking information on worlds and peoples to conquer..."
"When will Darth Sidious tell [the citizens of the Republic]?"
"When he's turned the Republic's chaos into order. When we've built an army and a fleet capable of dealing with the threat. To announce it before then would do nothing but create panic and leave us open to disaster.
The Separatists had legitimate complaints against the Republic and good reasons for doing what they did. It's not their fault that they were hijacked by Darth Sidious for his own ends.
All the typical problems of big government, really. Not every planet got proper representation, special interests controlled too much, and so on. The Republic kind of sucked.
You're misunderstanding the situation. The Separatists were not trying to build an Empire, they were simply rebelling against what they perceived as a corrupt, overreaching Republic which did not represent them. Darth Sidious co-opted the Separatist movement and stoked the flames, using them as pawns as he preyed on both sides to secure emergency powers and use them to take over the Republic and turn it into the Empire.
I was referring to the people ITT who think sidious did the galaxy a favour
2 years ago
Anonymous
I was only addressing the confusion about the "heroes on both sides" line. Take Sidious out of the picture and you can see each side has a legitimate reason to fight for their interests. The Republic side sees themselves as a uniting force in the galaxy and doesn't want the Separatists to threaten to tear that apart; the Separatist side sees themselves as a justified rebellion against the corrupt Republic who refuses to act in their interests. That's how you have heroes on both sides, because neither side is purely good or evil, it's a political dispute and a clash of opposing legitimate ideologies. Which side is "good" to you just depends on which one aligns with your personal political beliefs. Sidious uses the conflict for his own ends to become a dictator, but the Separatist movement was never trying to take over the galaxy, they just wanted a fair government that represented their interests.
Several issues. The Republic was de facto controlled by humans, and there hadn't been an alien or non Coreborn Chancellor in years. The megacorps acted with virtual impunity, like when the Senate refused to punish the Trade Federation for invading Naboo, despite having several trials over it. Some planets didn't even get representation despite being members. Some planets like jabiim had been pumped and dumped and then abandoned to their fate by the Republic.
The Republic also, as a big example, was extremely corrupt. When the Kaleesh came under attack attack a race of genocidal slavers, Grievous led them to victory in self defense. But the Republic ended up siding with the aggressors who killed billions(including starving people people death via blockades), because that side had money to bribe them with.
>The megacorps acted with virtual impunity, like when the Senate refused to punish the Trade Federation for invading Naboo, despite having several trials over it.
Why would the trade federation join the separatists if the senate is in their hands?
This is a contradiction in the Seperatist cause I agree. But it was pretty clearly an uneasy alliance. For instance, when we see the Confederate Senate meet in Clone Wars, there's a lot of tension between the corporate friendly senators and the populists who clearly believe in what they are doing. It's a bizzare alliance I concede to you, but the CIS as a whole had no real ideology except that everyone involved had major grudges against the status quo, and systems rights.
This. Fricking hate Star Wars for how much of this shit there is. People b***hed about The Rise of Skywalker for it too but it’s been a problem since forever.
>brainlets: LE EBIL DROID ARMY VS LE GUD CLONE ARMY
>people who pay attention: The Republic is decadent and corrupt, as seen in the Senate's inability to convict Gunray. It is a deeply flawed government, and the separatists, at least many of them(with the exception of the Trade Feds and their fellow megacorps, had honorable goals). However they were manipulated by Sheev like everyone else, and turned into pawns.
>The Republic is decadent and corrupt
All the republic's faults have possibly been caused by palpatine in the first place and palpatine as sidious riled up the hesitant separatists in tpm
The one fault I can give the republic is invading geonosis for no good reason >Noooo you can't deal with a spy in accordance to local laws nooooo
>Random guy tries to shoot AOC and flees to mexico >Instead of going through proper channel send a spy >To prevent spy from being executed invade the entirety of mexico
Yeah makes total sense
>You know the media talks a lot about the Sith but I don't think they're so bad. I have many Sith friends. I think that people should give them a chance and see that they're not all evil. You know I would be open to having a Sith as my Vice President. I mean a Sith couldn't be worse than Pence right?
You know if you're a hero to someone that might make you a villain to others. I'm sure Dooku and Grievous were heroes to the nemoidians, the bugmen and those guys with toasters on their chest.
>And did he really liberate them or did he just replace the dictator with one of his own men?
He considers accepting the offer from the existing dictator to switch sides, but he is talked out of it and instead presents his head to a roaring crowd.
Basically the Republic had been backing the guy, despite his tyranny, but Quinlan Vos convinced Dooku that replacing one tyrant with another would make him no better than the Republic.
did you guys ever notice there was no such thing as "Light Side" in the OT and PT? There was the Force and then there was the Dark Side. Force was natural and Dark Side was unnatural like necromancy and shit.
The term "Light Side" was first created in the EU books and vidya by the writers who misunderstood the concept of the Force and only canonized by Disney in ST. Pre-Disney the Light Side/Dark, good/bad dichotomy of Lucas' space magic didn't exist.
yeah the EU went too far with it, making Grey Jedi and such. Basically they took a whole Yin-Yang aspect to the Force, where the balance of the Force was both sides equal, but this is against Lucas own version in which there is the natural and normal Force, and the Dark Side of it being a tumor on it and bringing balance meaning to cut it off.
The problem is that Lucas used the wrong words. "Balance in the Force" sounds poetic and flowery, but it holds a certain meaning that he clearly didn't want but that the EU writers ran with.
You have to watch the tenth episode of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series' third season "Heroes on Both Sides" to understand this you stupid moron
>new hope >c3poop says 'there'll be no escape for the princess this time' >yet when luke asks about leia he pretends not to know and says she might be someone of importance
why did he lie to luke?
Dooku was legitimately trying to struggle against the Sith with the help of the Separatists. Don't you remember?
That’s why he met with darth Sideous later on in the same day.
What fricking movie did you watch?
In Aotc he asks obi wan to join him and defeat sidious saying that he controls the senate
Hardly a struggle against siths though, movie dooku is shown as an obedient lapdog, ehen he gets the plans for the death star on geonosis (because god forbid the empire just built the thing it needs an origin story) he immediately goes all the way to corouscant or whatever to give the plans to sidious
Dooku was such a waste of what could have been a great concept. Rogue Jedi trying to pull one over on Sidious by joining him. Nope, he's just a generic bad guy.
He's got a bunch of cool EU stuff
Like the clone war episode where dooku anakin and obi wan get captured by pirates and have to team up to escape
I think it means there's spies in the republic and the separatists
>AHHHH IM STUPID I CANT UNDERSTAND NUANCE, THINGS NEED TO BE BLACK AND WHITE BECAUSE ITS EASIER FOR MY BINARY PEABRAIN TO PROCESS
Way to miss the point brainlet.
Star wars in Lucas' eyes is literally black and white, we had a thread about this last night lol
I know, my point is that if a statement as simple as "There are heroes on both sides" confuses you then you're a leadhuffing boomer or gen xer or just a plain moron
>Star wars in Lucas' eyes is literally black and white
It's not though, he's said this many times. It's all about your perspective and what you read into it.
what the frick is he supposed to see through that shit?
Yeah anon, I'm sure the takeaway from Return of the Jedi is that Vader is irredeemable because he's evil, lmao
there's nothing black and white about two sides killing one another LOL LMAO ROFLMAOKEKING@YOURMOM
>empire is bad just because, that makes it okay for luke to blow up a space station with thousands of people
>oh and they're all wearing helmets, that makes them faceless and means you don't have to care when they get shot in the face and fall to their deaths!
>the named officers in the empire are portrayed as one-dimensionally evil who constantly go back on deals in favor of being cruel for cruelty's sake
>emperor is a shriveled old creature of a man who is a symbol of pure evil
>darth vader's, and every other sith's, lightsaber is red on purpose to show that they're the bad guys while the good guys typically have blue
>according to lucas, balancing the force means killing all the bad guys and the jedi are the good guys because they don't wear all black. anakin wearing darker clothes is supposed to be symbolic of his underlying darkness
>separatist army consists solely of droids so that the good guys don't have to feel conflicted about carving them up with their lightsabers
>even filoni's TCW, a show wholly approved by Lucas, does little to actually portray the separatists as anything other than the villains in every scenario
Even if we take Lucas at his word about the good found in evil people, and how good people can hand over power to evil, the story he's crafted since ANH can scarcely be viewed as anything other than childishly black-and-white.
Moral relativists need to be exterminated.
nonbinary does not mean relative
Wrong board
Sheev is a hero.
>sheev
You have to leave.
You will find yourself more welcome with your own kind, whom you can join on Reddit.com.
What’s his name then?
Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious
>Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious
You have to leave.
You will find yourself more welcome with your own kind, whom you can join on Reddit.com.
These are two different guys.
Senator Palpatine is an upstanding member of the Republic government and I'll not stand for this slander insinuating he has any association with Darth Sidious.
In the books his name is Sheev
Lucas supported the principal of the confederacy and states rights
dooku was a hero
He was a sith though
Is it that hard to believe that the seperatists wanted free trade and for the outer rim to govern itself? Dooku was a hero on Soreno.
General Greivous was a hero among his people.
>Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
>t. absolutist
You wouldn't get it, moron. Go watch MCU.
>Lucas: uuuuh you can't have gray jedi because you're either 100% lightside or 100% darkside
>Also Lucas: Only the Sith deal in absolutes
grey jedi are fan fiction larp though
morons who can't understand context
>"2 is always greater than 1"
>DURR STFU SITH GET OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS
Clearly you don't know the back story of Droid JAG-3R (known affectionately as the JAGER) that held off thirteen platoons of clone troopers during the battle of Dantooine. Of course you know of the Clone Commando on Coruscant who held off the Droid onslaught until Yoda's reinforcements arrived, but the republic media would never tell Jager's story.
As the omnipotent narrator, Lucas understands that on both sides of the conflict it would be a travesty to glorify ones war exploits and and vilify another's.
forget it, movies like this are too complicated for you.
stick to capeshit where they always have a clear good guy and bad guy so the children don't get confused.
Count Dooku was like Itachi Uchiwa.
The separatist alliance had people in it who thought they were legit fighting for freedom against the oppressive republic, but all their masters were actually CEOs and bankers and the whole movement was being run by the same shadowy cult that was ALSO secretly running the other side.
George knows exactly what he meant by that, too.
Idealists can be the most useful of useful idiots sometimes
>The Banking Clan
What did George mean by this?
>big tech says remember to support gay and trans riweeeeeeewwwwuoooooouuuuuuuuuuu
This is why the prequels outclass the OT by orders of magnitude. Literally the most poignant and on-point story with more modern relevancy than any work in the whole of the Western canon.
>The separatist alliance had people in it who thought they were legit fighting for freedom against the oppressive republic
This is never shown once in the prequel trilogy. No your clone wars fanfic doesn’t count.
It really was a missed opportunity just showing the CIS as greedy business interests and evil dudes
>showing the CIS as greedy business interests and evil dudes
Really sick of all this LGBT propaganda tbh senpai
It just shouldn’t have been robots and clones for 99% of all ground forces, the robots should’ve been led by actual flesh and blood separatists in the field that were fighting the Jedi.
A quote by Alto Stratus, of Jabiim. Separatist Commander.
>"There is no pain...there is only the force"--defeated Jedi Master
>"There is no pain? ANOTHER Jedi lie! This Jedi sits amongst the dead, and denies the existence of pain! Last week I saw my own cousin crawling in the mud, a blaster burn in her gut and her legs crushed by the Republic's war machines....WAS THAT PAIN JEDI!?!? And when she died in my arms...What did I feel, if not Pain?
>(Beheads Jedi)
>"The Jedi and Republic have brought only suffering to our world. But I promise you, soon every Jedi on Jabiim shall know our pain!"
Pretty sure separatist generals are living creatures in tcw
Generals are not heroic, generals don’t fight even when they say they do and build their little legends for themselves. What they needed was some group of actual people with faces on the battlefield.
>WAR!
>THE DEAD SPEAK!
>HUH!
>WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
"hero" is used in the classical greek definition of "beyond mere man"
In modern terms, like heroes in Fable series
why do people say this opening line is good but bash on Rise of Skywalker's opening line?
perspective, OP.
>War!
>speed watchers don't realize the Jedi were supposed to be fallible, resulting in their downfall in the first place
Filtered by a general audience movie from 2005
You had 17 years to get it speed watchers....
Also Dooku didn't know Palpatine was Sidious when he was getting his head cut off.
>speed watchers
Is this a thing? I feel like only someone whos dopamine receptors have been annihilated by twitter and tiktok and instagram would do this sort of thing
If zoomers can watch movies on mobile phones it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest they would do this as well.
>I will join you Dooku
Dooku is the hero they are referring to in the opening crawl. Sidious is using his idealism to manipulate him. Much like Anakin later in the film. Dooku was going to have a turning moment like darth vader in the OT but he is executed by Anakin at the orders of Palpatine. "he is too dangerous to be kept alive" is said by Mace before he's about to execute Palpatine. It shows how the Jedi are just as unwise and reckless as Anakin. Since the last true Jedi "Qui-gon", was killed by the Sith.
some people just can't appreciate great writing sometimes. I'm sorry George.
As good as this sounds, it seems made up by fans to make sense of the prequels.
When does George acknowledge any of that?
maybe HALF right, but you're overlooking that Anakin is the violater both times
-kills Dooku even though it's wrong
-spares Palpatine even though it's wrong
it's impossible to frick up from both ends so badly unless you're on your way out into the darkside.
>Also Dooku didn't know Palpatine was Sidious when he was getting his head cut off.
>Dooku didn't know Palpatine was Sidious
Yes he did. What he didn't realize was that he was expendable to Sheev.
This was George's only attempts to make the conflict seem grey but it doesn't even work because everyone fighting on the entire other side are robots (I don't care what some obscure book says where a few people or aliens fought for them.)
the other side are clones though.... and it's established by characters like r2-d2 that droids have souls.
A galactic civil war between two disposable classes orchestrated by one man is pure kino writing.
>I don't care what some obscure book says
You don't read books at all
You only read. Star Wars EU books
>You only read. Star Wars EU books
Yes.
Help me out, EUbros. My zoomie little brother shits on Legends constantly because of the memes about Skippy the Jedi Droid (based) and the Crying Mountain (cringe). How do I convince him to give it a shot instead of playing Outer Worlds for the tenth time?
>I don't care what some obscure book says where a few people or aliens fought for them
Geonosians are in the movies, you fricking moron.
They are just s spectators who don’t fight you moron.
Spitroasting ahsoka
A hero is someone who is idolized for their strength. Doesn’t mean good or bad moron
I actually like the Plinkett reviews but this argument was predicated on a faulty understanding of the word "hero."
While hero can refer to someone with morally admirable qualities, it can also just refer to any legendary or powerful figure, regardless of their actual moral standing.
Dooku and such would fall under the category of "hero" under this definition despite not necessarily being morally "good."
Dooku and Grievous were heroes.
Yes.
If we are truly objective, we doesn't like him for soap opera reasons like Lucas has said, we see him as evil for what he has done to Anakin and Jedi in general. But his Empire was no worse that the thing that was before him. He offered shitons of opportunity for humans in the galaxy. Aliens were discriminated sure but when you look at the prequels most of them were already hostile and fricking buttholes towards humans even before the coming of Empire and always for no reasons.
I think the thing who sucked the most about the Empire is their communist policy, like when they wanted to nationalize the territories of farmers in Tatooine.
Sheev was very cruel against Jedi but it's part of the game: a war between two factions, they wanted sheev death only because he has differents beliefs and practice of the Force.
There's an invasion coming. A massive assault force of dark ships, shadowy figures, and weapons of great power, based on organic technology of a sort we've never seen before. We believe these Far Outsiders, as we call them, already have a foothold at the far edge of the galaxy, and even now have scouting parties seeking information on worlds and peoples to conquer..."
"When will Darth Sidious tell [the citizens of the Republic]?"
"When he's turned the Republic's chaos into order. When we've built an army and a fleet capable of dealing with the threat. To announce it before then would do nothing but create panic and leave us open to disaster.
What are you quoting?
The voices inside his head
Okay Thrawn.
The Yuuzhan Vong war is the most locked shit I've ever read about.
Ever hear of a little story called the Iliad?
From the Nazis' point of view, the Allies are evil.
Well then they lost.
The Separatists had legitimate complaints against the Republic and good reasons for doing what they did. It's not their fault that they were hijacked by Darth Sidious for his own ends.
>The Separatists had legitimate complaints against the Republic and good reasons for doing what they did.
Like what?
All the typical problems of big government, really. Not every planet got proper representation, special interests controlled too much, and so on. The Republic kind of sucked.
Yeah I'm sure the empire is big on representation and planet rights
Aside the right of not being blown up I mean
You're misunderstanding the situation. The Separatists were not trying to build an Empire, they were simply rebelling against what they perceived as a corrupt, overreaching Republic which did not represent them. Darth Sidious co-opted the Separatist movement and stoked the flames, using them as pawns as he preyed on both sides to secure emergency powers and use them to take over the Republic and turn it into the Empire.
I was referring to the people ITT who think sidious did the galaxy a favour
I was only addressing the confusion about the "heroes on both sides" line. Take Sidious out of the picture and you can see each side has a legitimate reason to fight for their interests. The Republic side sees themselves as a uniting force in the galaxy and doesn't want the Separatists to threaten to tear that apart; the Separatist side sees themselves as a justified rebellion against the corrupt Republic who refuses to act in their interests. That's how you have heroes on both sides, because neither side is purely good or evil, it's a political dispute and a clash of opposing legitimate ideologies. Which side is "good" to you just depends on which one aligns with your personal political beliefs. Sidious uses the conflict for his own ends to become a dictator, but the Separatist movement was never trying to take over the galaxy, they just wanted a fair government that represented their interests.
Several issues. The Republic was de facto controlled by humans, and there hadn't been an alien or non Coreborn Chancellor in years. The megacorps acted with virtual impunity, like when the Senate refused to punish the Trade Federation for invading Naboo, despite having several trials over it. Some planets didn't even get representation despite being members. Some planets like jabiim had been pumped and dumped and then abandoned to their fate by the Republic.
The Republic also, as a big example, was extremely corrupt. When the Kaleesh came under attack attack a race of genocidal slavers, Grievous led them to victory in self defense. But the Republic ended up siding with the aggressors who killed billions(including starving people people death via blockades), because that side had money to bribe them with.
>The megacorps acted with virtual impunity, like when the Senate refused to punish the Trade Federation for invading Naboo, despite having several trials over it.
Why would the trade federation join the separatists if the senate is in their hands?
This is a contradiction in the Seperatist cause I agree. But it was pretty clearly an uneasy alliance. For instance, when we see the Confederate Senate meet in Clone Wars, there's a lot of tension between the corporate friendly senators and the populists who clearly believe in what they are doing. It's a bizzare alliance I concede to you, but the CIS as a whole had no real ideology except that everyone involved had major grudges against the status quo, and systems rights.
>a whole bunch of not-in-the-movies shit
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This, George was a shit writer, but atleast he was creative. If only he put them into the movies in engaging ways
This. Fricking hate Star Wars for how much of this shit there is. People b***hed about The Rise of Skywalker for it too but it’s been a problem since forever.
>brainlets: LE EBIL DROID ARMY VS LE GUD CLONE ARMY
>people who pay attention: The Republic is decadent and corrupt, as seen in the Senate's inability to convict Gunray. It is a deeply flawed government, and the separatists, at least many of them(with the exception of the Trade Feds and their fellow megacorps, had honorable goals). However they were manipulated by Sheev like everyone else, and turned into pawns.
>The Republic is decadent and corrupt
All the republic's faults have possibly been caused by palpatine in the first place and palpatine as sidious riled up the hesitant separatists in tpm
The one fault I can give the republic is invading geonosis for no good reason
>Noooo you can't deal with a spy in accordance to local laws nooooo
Obi-Wan was tracking a bounty hunter that tried to kill a republic senator, frick off
>Random guy tries to shoot AOC and flees to mexico
>Instead of going through proper channel send a spy
>To prevent spy from being executed invade the entirety of mexico
Yeah makes total sense
>You know the media talks a lot about the Sith but I don't think they're so bad. I have many Sith friends. I think that people should give them a chance and see that they're not all evil. You know I would be open to having a Sith as my Vice President. I mean a Sith couldn't be worse than Pence right?
Pence was boring as you can get so yes.
From a certain point of view
You know if you're a hero to someone that might make you a villain to others. I'm sure Dooku and Grievous were heroes to the nemoidians, the bugmen and those guys with toasters on their chest.
Reminder that Dooku literally overthrew a brutal Republic backed dictator and was hailed as a planetary hero by the Ishi-Tib.
Wut what's this from?
And did he really liberate them or did he just replace the dictator with one of his own men?
>Wut what's this from?
A comic
>And did he really liberate them or did he just replace the dictator with one of his own men?
He considers accepting the offer from the existing dictator to switch sides, but he is talked out of it and instead presents his head to a roaring crowd.
Basically the Republic had been backing the guy, despite his tyranny, but Quinlan Vos convinced Dooku that replacing one tyrant with another would make him no better than the Republic.
>A comic
Sauce me kneegga
Age of the Republic: Dooku? I think.
did you guys ever notice there was no such thing as "Light Side" in the OT and PT? There was the Force and then there was the Dark Side. Force was natural and Dark Side was unnatural like necromancy and shit.
The term "Light Side" was first created in the EU books and vidya by the writers who misunderstood the concept of the Force and only canonized by Disney in ST. Pre-Disney the Light Side/Dark, good/bad dichotomy of Lucas' space magic didn't exist.
Yeah and dark vader was originally not Luke's father. Things changed from the beginning.
yeah the EU went too far with it, making Grey Jedi and such. Basically they took a whole Yin-Yang aspect to the Force, where the balance of the Force was both sides equal, but this is against Lucas own version in which there is the natural and normal Force, and the Dark Side of it being a tumor on it and bringing balance meaning to cut it off.
The problem is that Lucas used the wrong words. "Balance in the Force" sounds poetic and flowery, but it holds a certain meaning that he clearly didn't want but that the EU writers ran with.
General Grievous has an arc where he becomes the good guy
Heroes of their side, not general hero for morailty. And truthfully is there even an objective morality in a conflict between people?
The "bad guys" don't think they're evil. From their point of view they're the heroes
>heroes on both sides
Why is this so hard to believe?
Grievous was a hero, and a real human being.
>the guy calling himself Darth Tyrannus is a hero
why are prequel zoomers such impressionable morons
You have to watch the tenth episode of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series' third season "Heroes on Both Sides" to understand this you stupid moron
I just noticed Ashoka had Black lips
>new hope
>c3poop says 'there'll be no escape for the princess this time'
>yet when luke asks about leia he pretends not to know and says she might be someone of importance
why did he lie to luke?
it obviously means hero in the classical sense, but of course the capeshit-rotted brain can only think "DER DA GOOD GUYZ?"