a hero isn't necessarily on your side
it's like the difference between opponent and enemy
Classical meaning of "hero" isn't a good/evil thing, it's just a measure of the strength, bravery, and capability of one person. Think Achilles and Hector in the Iliad, both were "heroes" but fighting on different sides.
Classical meaning of "hero" isn't a good/evil thing, it's just a measure of the strength, bravery, and capability of one person. Think Achilles and Hector in the Iliad, both were "heroes" but fighting on different sides.
WW1 wasn't a war of good vs evil. It was a bunch of defensive pacts going off. So you can see heroes on various sides since this is just some political quagmire created by rich buttholes. Clone Wars clearly had the CIS being very evil with their legalization of slavery and doing terrible things to their citizens and enemies, so there being heroes doesn't make sense.
The CIS had organic armies too like the Geonosians.
>Palpatine: I don't know how much longer I can hold off the vote, my friends. More and more star systems are joining the separatists.
It was established in Attack of the Clones that the Confederacy is more than just a droid army and collection of megacorporations, it just isn't detailed in the films very much. The Geonosians are the prime example although I don't recall them ever being part of the Republic in the first place. But in the Clone Wars George Lucas depicted the Separatist Senate and capital world where all the member worlds' senators gather with Dooku as their head of state.
They had their own war heroes too besides General Grievous who was shown in a positive light by the Separatist media while the Jedi and clones were vilified. But again that's another problem with the Clone Wars across a lot of media. There are non-droid/jedi/clone combatants but we rarely see them. Like in ANH one of rebel pilots tells Luke he used to fly with Anakin in the war but they never show the Jedi fighting with human pilots and stuff. We get the clones fighting with the Wookiees I guess but no volunteers/conscripts.
There's actually an EU character based on Red Baron. >Tofen Vane was a Force-sensitive Human male from Valahari and a member of the House of Vane that sided with the Confederacy of Independent Systems during the Clone Wars. >Tofen Vane is modeled on Manfred von Richthofen AKA the "Red Baron," a famed pilot of World War I. Vane is piloting a red craft much like the Red Baron, while his uniform displays decorations similar to those of the Imperial German Luftstreitkräfte.
Grievous & Dooku both I imagine. Grievous was definitely a lot more more sympathetic before Filoni and George did him dirty in TCW. >noble warrior gets fricked over by the Republic because Huk mantid people cry to them first >trade embargos & sanctions ruin his planet's economy, famines ensue >gets maimed in a shuttle crash, converted into a hyper brutal machine with biomechanical enhancements to portions of brain that enhance rage
Now he's just evil because he's evil.
Unironically he was afraid of Grievous upstaging Vader.
Grievous got stupidly popular after ROTS, he was already popular among even casual fans because of the Genndywars cartoon. There was just something about him that was edgy enough to be cool but campy enough to be not be a school shooter edgelord. Even older fans liked him (he's literally one of the only prequel characters who gets namedropped in Family Guy, a series loaded with mostly OT references). Lucas really did a disservice to him by gutting his background from sympathetic antagonist to just bog standard Saturday morning cartoon enemy general.
>Lucas really did a disservice to him by gutting his background from sympathetic antagonist to just bog standard Saturday morning cartoon enemy general.
If you watch the ROTS commentary, that was always Lucas' intention behind Grievous. He wanted him to be a sneaky and underhanded villain rather than some OP Jedi slayer like he was in the Genndy cartoon or some sympathetic honorabru warrior like he was in the EU. That's why he's always slinking around and crawling on all fours in ROTS.
>Going through his mind >I really should have asked the Jedi, the independent party I sent to validate their claims of oppression at the hand of the Trade Federation, to validate her claims that their people were under the oppression of the Trade Federation since they were sent to deal with the blockade we already knew about. >Now I look like a fool and a vote of no confidence is placed against me >Why didn't I ask the Jedi to come here since they were working on my behalf? I mean I did meet with them when they first landed but then we just went our separate ways for no reason. Why did I do something so stupid?
I mean, yeah it's war and it makes sense but in the context of Star Wars where Storm Troopers are mowed down by the dozen it seems really random and stupid to say this.
Clone Wars had an episode titled "Heroes on Both Sides" with a brief exploration of the Confederacy's side of things with a Parliament that bought into the party line of the Republic being the bloated corrupt government propped up by the galactic megacorps and calling the loyalty of a "Maybe we should start considering a cease-fire negotiation with how this war is financially draining both sides" senator into question before Dooku ends up having her assassinated and pinning the blame on Republic forces while Grievous sends in stealthy suicide bomber droids to take out a power station on Coruscant to keep the war going.
How can you be alive in 2022 and not understand this line? You're seeing it right now IRL. The Left has their heroes, the Right has their heroes. Russia has their heroes, America has their corporate serfs that you're told to like.
The CIS isn't supposed to be comically evil like the Empire, they're systems mostly led by corporations that are pursuing their best interests and are being played by Sidious, just like the Republic.
Palpatine set it up so the separatist had good reason for wanting to leave the republic. Here we have Ghost of kyiv, Jager , that one guy who got a medal of honor . In star wars you have Ani and that one spider general
>Dooku/Sifo Dias >Ventress >Grievous (butchered in the movie but has a tragic backstory) >Quinlan Voss >Jango Fett
yeah there were arguably some heroes in there, although there could have been more focus on alien characters considering the faction was the 'Confederacy of independent Systems'.
>has a tragic backstory
That was retconned. He's now just a generic bad guy who likes killing jedi and over time became more cybernetic. Why give depth and nuance to the story when he can just be a bad guy you can cheer at while they die?
>independent system >catch foreign agent committing espionage >rightfully sentence him to death >catch his two compatriots after they murdered Geonosians >rightfully sentence them to death >get invaded and occupied by the human dominated republic for wanting justice
Geonosis did nothing wrong, the republic were the bad guys
i mean the "good side" in the war was run by a fascist dictator who used the war to seize total control of the galaxy. not crazy to think some of the separatists might be good guys (even if it's not really in the movie)
Every war has atrocities committed by both sides and every side views themselves as the most righteous while their opponents are the bad guys. The winner is the one who gets to write the history books so they will always come out as the good guys
Red Baron was a hero of WW1 even if he was german.
why
Fokker triplane, b***h
thank you bros
a hero isn't necessarily on your side
it's like the difference between opponent and enemy
Good luck with that. World war 2 propaganda has broken the brains of all westerners, even those born decades after it ended.
Classical meaning of "hero" isn't a good/evil thing, it's just a measure of the strength, bravery, and capability of one person. Think Achilles and Hector in the Iliad, both were "heroes" but fighting on different sides.
can a black be a hero?
can a black be strong, brave, and capable?
No
What races can have a hero?
WW1 wasn't a war of good vs evil. It was a bunch of defensive pacts going off. So you can see heroes on various sides since this is just some political quagmire created by rich buttholes. Clone Wars clearly had the CIS being very evil with their legalization of slavery and doing terrible things to their citizens and enemies, so there being heroes doesn't make sense.
The other side in this case is all robots.
The CIS had organic armies too like the Geonosians.
They got flamethrowered by the good guys, eggs and all
>Palpatine: I don't know how much longer I can hold off the vote, my friends. More and more star systems are joining the separatists.
It was established in Attack of the Clones that the Confederacy is more than just a droid army and collection of megacorporations, it just isn't detailed in the films very much. The Geonosians are the prime example although I don't recall them ever being part of the Republic in the first place. But in the Clone Wars George Lucas depicted the Separatist Senate and capital world where all the member worlds' senators gather with Dooku as their head of state.
They had their own war heroes too besides General Grievous who was shown in a positive light by the Separatist media while the Jedi and clones were vilified. But again that's another problem with the Clone Wars across a lot of media. There are non-droid/jedi/clone combatants but we rarely see them. Like in ANH one of rebel pilots tells Luke he used to fly with Anakin in the war but they never show the Jedi fighting with human pilots and stuff. We get the clones fighting with the Wookiees I guess but no volunteers/conscripts.
He was an autist like all Germans and seeing this brave noble arse getting shot down and looted by some Aussie shitposters is fricking hilarious.
There's actually an EU character based on Red Baron.
>Tofen Vane was a Force-sensitive Human male from Valahari and a member of the House of Vane that sided with the Confederacy of Independent Systems during the Clone Wars.
>Tofen Vane is modeled on Manfred von Richthofen AKA the "Red Baron," a famed pilot of World War I. Vane is piloting a red craft much like the Red Baron, while his uniform displays decorations similar to those of the Imperial German Luftstreitkräfte.
Nice.
Jodhpurs, riding boots and a non-fat body will never be a bad look.
War!
Just when you thought the first paragraph of a Star Wars opening crawl couldn't get any dumber
>The dead speak!
Huh!
WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR
General Grievous.
He was a good friend.
Grievous & Dooku both I imagine. Grievous was definitely a lot more more sympathetic before Filoni and George did him dirty in TCW.
>noble warrior gets fricked over by the Republic because Huk mantid people cry to them first
>trade embargos & sanctions ruin his planet's economy, famines ensue
>gets maimed in a shuttle crash, converted into a hyper brutal machine with biomechanical enhancements to portions of brain that enhance rage
Now he's just evil because he's evil.
I don't understand George, I'm pretty sure he's said Grievous was supposed to mirror Vader, but then he made Grievous a coward. Vader wasn't a coward.
Unironically he was afraid of Grievous upstaging Vader.
Grievous got stupidly popular after ROTS, he was already popular among even casual fans because of the Genndywars cartoon. There was just something about him that was edgy enough to be cool but campy enough to be not be a school shooter edgelord. Even older fans liked him (he's literally one of the only prequel characters who gets namedropped in Family Guy, a series loaded with mostly OT references). Lucas really did a disservice to him by gutting his background from sympathetic antagonist to just bog standard Saturday morning cartoon enemy general.
Not to mention the alien race they made just for him is one of the coolest in Star Wars.
>Lucas really did a disservice to him by gutting his background from sympathetic antagonist to just bog standard Saturday morning cartoon enemy general.
If you watch the ROTS commentary, that was always Lucas' intention behind Grievous. He wanted him to be a sneaky and underhanded villain rather than some OP Jedi slayer like he was in the Genndy cartoon or some sympathetic honorabru warrior like he was in the EU. That's why he's always slinking around and crawling on all fours in ROTS.
In what movie was this? He is just a funny robot dude.
I think it means that there are people on both sides who are considered heroes by others on their side. Otherwise it doesn't really make any sense.
From a certain point of view?
Just like the Iliad
The prequels were right about everything
>Going through his mind
>I really should have asked the Jedi, the independent party I sent to validate their claims of oppression at the hand of the Trade Federation, to validate her claims that their people were under the oppression of the Trade Federation since they were sent to deal with the blockade we already knew about.
>Now I look like a fool and a vote of no confidence is placed against me
>Why didn't I ask the Jedi to come here since they were working on my behalf? I mean I did meet with them when they first landed but then we just went our separate ways for no reason. Why did I do something so stupid?
literal children understood this line
I mean, yeah it's war and it makes sense but in the context of Star Wars where Storm Troopers are mowed down by the dozen it seems really random and stupid to say this.
Also, I said this without looking at the OP picture and thought it was quoting one of the shitty Disney sequels so don't @ me, prequelgays.
are heroes on both sides
yes you have a problem with that?
Doku was the good guy
Reminder that Count Dooku is based on Robert E. Lee
If that were true he'd be a good guy.
Dooku was a good guy.
'Heroes" was a very popular chain of sandwich shops. It's just hard to tell because the signage isn't written in English.
Clone Wars had an episode titled "Heroes on Both Sides" with a brief exploration of the Confederacy's side of things with a Parliament that bought into the party line of the Republic being the bloated corrupt government propped up by the galactic megacorps and calling the loyalty of a "Maybe we should start considering a cease-fire negotiation with how this war is financially draining both sides" senator into question before Dooku ends up having her assassinated and pinning the blame on Republic forces while Grievous sends in stealthy suicide bomber droids to take out a power station on Coruscant to keep the war going.
5000 IQ writing
Read Ancient Greek stories.
How can you be alive in 2022 and not understand this line? You're seeing it right now IRL. The Left has their heroes, the Right has their heroes. Russia has their heroes, America has their corporate serfs that you're told to like.
It's not hard.
The CIS were the good guys
in terms of morality a clone army is worse than a droid army, i rest my case
The CIS isn't supposed to be comically evil like the Empire, they're systems mostly led by corporations that are pursuing their best interests and are being played by Sidious, just like the Republic.
Palpatine set it up so the separatist had good reason for wanting to leave the republic. Here we have Ghost of kyiv, Jager , that one guy who got a medal of honor . In star wars you have Ani and that one spider general
>Dooku/Sifo Dias
>Ventress
>Grievous (butchered in the movie but has a tragic backstory)
>Quinlan Voss
>Jango Fett
yeah there were arguably some heroes in there, although there could have been more focus on alien characters considering the faction was the 'Confederacy of independent Systems'.
>has a tragic backstory
That was retconned. He's now just a generic bad guy who likes killing jedi and over time became more cybernetic. Why give depth and nuance to the story when he can just be a bad guy you can cheer at while they die?
>independent system
>catch foreign agent committing espionage
>rightfully sentence him to death
>catch his two compatriots after they murdered Geonosians
>rightfully sentence them to death
>get invaded and occupied by the human dominated republic for wanting justice
Geonosis did nothing wrong, the republic were the bad guys
They're just pissed the GAR hit first before they got their invasion army ready
The problem is Lucas still presents the "heroes" of the Confederacy being:
>Dooku (evil sith lord)
>Grievous (literal saturday morning cartoon villain)
>nute gunray (imperial japanese coward stereotype)
etc
>Grievous
>Villain
Dooku was a dark jedi, not a sith.
>DARTH TYRANUS was not a sith
Yes, Lucas likes duality. For instance, he says that Anakin/ Vader is Satan. Remember Vader remained the chosen one.
Lucas clearly intended to imitate Gundam
i mean the "good side" in the war was run by a fascist dictator who used the war to seize total control of the galaxy. not crazy to think some of the separatists might be good guys (even if it's not really in the movie)
Dooku, while a Sith, probably legitimately believed in killing Palpatine. For his own ends, obviously.
This. The jedis sucked dick. The prequels ruined it.
Lucas is a nazi confirmed
>I c-can't understand
>my gen x han solo/boba fett-fellating brain is m-m-malf-functioning---
>heeelllppPpPPp
Sheev is a hero
His original and better name is Cos.
Only because Cos's last name was Dashit.
The prequels frickin sucked.
name one hero on the side of the separatists and explain why
General Grievous for seeking justice on those that left his planet and people to rot.
they sure did a good job of conveying that in the movies
Agreed, since he's one of the heroes on both sides.
what was your favorite scene they conveyed this in?
The title crawl and when he fought Kenobi 1v1.
General Grievous and Count Dooku are heroes. They never did anything evil, they simply fought for what they believed in.
Every war has atrocities committed by both sides and every side views themselves as the most righteous while their opponents are the bad guys. The winner is the one who gets to write the history books so they will always come out as the good guys
>An heroes on both sides
The seperatists, from a certain point of view were heroes.
Back to jacking off to your RLM capeshit boomers, pleb.
>Another "anons b***h and whine about Grievous" thread
Yawn
Who's b***hing and whining? We're talking about the superior version.
>no cape
That's not the superior version
>im bored of coming here but I came here anyway
This thread didn't have to involve the usual Genndy pissbabies.
You're only the third person out of 94 posts to mention Genndy in this thread.
Obsessed.
Is that facts?
This man strikes fear into the hearts of Filonigays everywhere.
This is the single thing in the prequels I don't hate and it annoys me when people mention it with a whoaaaaaaa that's craaaazy
Will Count Dooku denounce the space nazis?