This already feels outdated compared to Digital Circus. Culture moves fast now and Gen Alpha has the say what is popular and what isn’t.
This already feels outdated compared to Digital Circus.
This already feels outdated compared to Digital Circus. Culture moves fast now and Gen Alpha has the say what is popular and what isn’t.
Is there a single frame of this show that doesn't reference sex in some way
There's one right above you.
See the horned sinner between Lemonhead and Fatty? Take a close look at his hands.
The credits?
incels be seething
Anyways
>Hey Goose can ya whip me some nice tunes pretty please with sugar on top?????
>yea sure "hamfarts a good tune easily and doesn't give a crap because they know it's gonna be badly implemented into some degree"
is that the alien homonid?
omg it totally is thats so cute
Go to bed, grandpa
>show targeting millenials with crude sex jokes and swear words
vs
>show targeting fnaf gen alpha kids with an actually appealing main character
It’s over for vivzie. It’s not 2019 anymore.
>actually appealing main character
Eh.
Pomni is just someone going through an existential crisis in a nightmare scenario
Charlie is a moron who seems so far removed from everything around her it comes off as jarring. Unrelatable, no one likes the character in universe. and her being the princess of hell/antichrist or whatever serves no purpose because she has no powers, authority, or respect. Every single person, even her token lesbian girlfriend have no real connection or respect for her. She’s a 3 legged puppy that everyone around her feels sorry for, and tolerates her barking because she’s just so weak and pathetic.
I don't give a shit about Hazbin, I just don't think Pomni is that appealing. The most interesting thing is that at the end of the pilot she's full of shame over having tried to save herself and abandon Ragatha.
>Charlie is a moron who seems so far removed from everything around her it comes off as jarring.
Rich White girl = Viv unintended self insert.
I don't even understand how Charlie ended up like this. Who was sheltering her in the first place? Her mother has been completely absent. Her father presumably is not around much.
No one has any respect or apprehension for her, and by extension Lucifer, which makes her being the princess of hell mean nothing. It would at least make sense given the context of source material, that no one would want to touch the hotel assuming it was another trick by Lucifer in his unending torment of people there, with the joke hitting because Charlie is sincere.
It's irritating that this EXTREMELY basic bit of world building wasn't thought about at all when making this show
Pomni purposely has little personality, she is the "Audience Surrogate", her primary role is to serve as a sort of stand-in for the audience, to make us feel like we are in her shoes, its very unlikely she will ever develop beyond the "normal" character reacting to the zany stuff happening around her and interacting with the quirky cast
Charlie's personality is the "good girl" heroic protagonist, she's the demon-painted classical disney princess who keeps seeing the best in others, to the point of ignoring very real flaws, now she COULD have a character arc where she eventually realizes her way of thinking is naive and counterproductive towards her main goal, but im not holding my breath as viv doesnt seem to be the type to actually do decent writing
I understand what a great milestone something like "Hazbin Hotel" and "Helluva Boss" have done for indie animation, but Vivziepops work really doesn't seem interested in telling good stories, good writing, and executing things well. It seems much more concerned with just existing as something to entertain for ulterior reasons. I think people might be searching for too much substance in these types of properties. From what I've seen, the Hazbin on Amazon seems slapped together with only a few decent qualities in the animation.
Hazbin is as important to indie animation as Homestuck was for webcomics, which is to say not at all.
Vivienne managing a series without the initial assistance of a major studio does not mean she has changed the landscape. It just means she managed to break through. She eventually succumbed to selling to a major studio anyway, so she's not much different than someone like Noelle Stevenson who got noticed for her webcomics, got into the industry because of it, and then managed to get her webcomics turned into studio productions.
An individual showrunner is not going to change the landscape of indie animation. Digital Circus being a hit doesn't matter. Hazbin being a hit doesn't matter. We need a platform-- a REAL platform that isn't YouTube, so other projects don't just fall into obscurity. There are so many fricking animation pilots on YouTube with 1,000 or 10,000 views that nobody talks about because it's just CIRCUS HAZBIN CIRCUS HAZBIN CIRCUS HAZBIN. It's not Gooseworx or Viv's responsibility to prop up other independent creators, but I'm tired of people pretending like the scene is in a good spot just because two people made it.
I was speaking more from an inspirational at the time stand point for where bigger animated pilot productions were. Many things before that pilot wise were small scale or pilots that had already been picked up by networks, with fewer really gaining traction. Of course it's not the responsibility of who you mentioned, but indie animated pilots and bigger productions have been a bigger deal in the past few years online, and as for platforms dedicated solely to indie creators like you said, there's already lots of platforms for that like YouTube, Newgrounds, TikTok, Facebook (which people don't really utilize like they could), and even Vimeo. Who knows what the next idea for an indie animated platform could be.
I'd even dare say something Cinemaphile would be a great place for creators to share their work, but this site is so weird and cynical that that opportunity seems scarce. I mean, we are on a fricking well known comics and cartoon board site.
*something like Cinemaphile
But for most of the early 2000's, we had an active indie animation scene-- SUPER indie, too. Not just Bill Plympton, but literal nobodies or teenagers just doing shit for fun. You would have these really elaborate animations like "Sealed with a Kiss" or "Bitey Brackenwood", or you could have animators who were able to make a living off of their animations like Arin and Harry Partridge. Homestar is the most famous case of being a "quit my job to make this" web series. We had a gap where people stopped because the algorithm fricked over indie creators and that's the only thing Vivienne has been able to get around.
I think, if anything, pilots like Hazbin created this weird stigma that a web series needs to be as elaborate of a production as something you would see on TV. Nobody is going to make a simple Homestar Runner anymore. It's gotta be a 22-minute fluidly animated cartoon with known voice actors and a team of 30+ people on a budget of $30k or more (Hullaballoo, Digital Circus, Long Gone Gulch, Monkey Wrench, Lackadaisy).
If I were to make some stupid thesis video, I would say Hazbin Hotel might've accidentally done damage to indie scene by setting these standards and expectations that everyone else wants to match.
Hey, maybe you're right. With what you mentioned, though, I do think those are different aspects to creator driven and indie animation, where I'm referring to series or pilots, and you've gone over people who focused on singular films, goofy animated skit type videos, commentary "Let's Play" type animation, or shows that I feel were more about just being goofy cartoons on the internet rather than shows. Trends go in waves, man. People in recent years have just cared more about shows with stories or a certain level of professionalism in the production, which I think has it's perks, since it brings more eyes to taking YouTube and Newgrounds animation more serious. But I still see tons of sillier, non-series based animation getting millions of views on YouTube and other platforms, and I don't think that's going to ever completely go away. People will find the kind of animation they want to find if they look.
>I would say Hazbin Hotel might've accidentally done damage to indie scene by setting these standards and expectations that everyone else wants to match.
This. Standards are way higher now than before. You could make something simple and short but now people want whole seasons with disney tier animation. Creators are getting shit on because their animation isn't some smooth animation with a complex story.
I'm seeing people trying to create series or feature films with volunteers or doing it themselves and getting burnt out. Hazbin was honestly awful for the indie scene and there's no going back to the way it was before.
It's actually CRIMINAL that Homestar Runner as beloved and impactful as it was in the wee days of the internet, never got the budget to be a full length animated series.
I get it was like these brothers doing things and wanted to keep it small, but they just abandoned it to go on and work for big industry stuff.
I also remember Bitey Brackenwood, that was great. Hell "There she is!" could've been it's own show.
Shit even Salad Fingers, but nah - its the shitty DA sparkledog show.
The Chap Brothers got offers to make Homestar a show. They rejected it. They felt Homestar was funniest as a web series where they could pick how long or short they wanted the episodes. They thought if they were forced to make 11-min episodes or fill up a half hour, all the charm would be sucked out. Instead, they pitched "Two More Eggs" which was just a collection of shorts.
nah i disagree, web animation finally being toe-to-toe with the "industry" in terms of production value and storytelling quality is a purely beneficial outcome, we have a pool of creative and ambitious people not held down by executives AND we dont have to rely on a select few corporations showing mercy on us about airing good shows
I dont like the "Hellaverse" at all, i think its just really bland juvenile media, but to argue against the rise of independent animation as if its should be stomped out of the competition? this would only result in western cartoons being more homogenous
there is a lot to criticize about viv's work, but this is not one of them.
>I'd even dare say something Cinemaphile would be a great place for creators to share their work
check out >>>/ic/, it's exactly what you describe
>but this site is so weird and cynical that that opportunity seems scarce
Cinemaphile isn't cynical, it only looks that way at a passing glance. You can tell by judging the effect it has on people. I don't know about you, but this place always manages to cheer me up, somehow, whereas places like reddit always leave me feeling bitter and annoyed.
Aren't gen alpha still in elementary school? And you talked to them about how they feel about sex cartoons to learn this?
haha yes we must do the sex sign so they know it's an adult show
Needs like
1-2 more songs per episode.
needs 50k
why should i give a shit what gen alpha thinks about adult animation
Frick no they don't, literal boomers still control the entertainment industry
>ep1 is lame except for intro
>ep 2 is fun
>ep 3 is really good
>ep 4 is lame but it has some nice moments.
This is already far better than most season 1 outings for cartoons. If Hazbin dropped out of nowhere with no hype and drama built around the pilot and Helluva Boss, this would be praised as the best cartoon in 20 years.
This cartoon isn’t even as good as season 4+ of Rick and Morty. It looks bad, the plots been bad so far, and the characters are unlikable. This show is mid at best, and it reeks of needing an editor/wrangler to make the convoluted plot coherent.
Does gen beta already exist? Are gen alpha fricking?
bro
The oldest Gen Alpha kids are 10 years old now
Digital Circus is just a transliteration of social media environments, if you think it's "up to date" it's not up to date in a good way
The thing I'm kinda dissapointed in is that "It's Viv version of Hell and Heaven! She can do what she wants with it!" completly turns the premise into "eh, whatever".[/spolier]
Pretty much. Worst part is, it doesn't even feel very original either, it just tries to mooch off from most known religion? I'm not even sure, but it's very badly executed. I'm completely fine with the whole demon part, but there is just so much demon sexualization, it makes me honestly aphatetic to it and that is not a good reaction at all. If I wanted queer Heaven and Hell stuff, there's literally Good Omens for that with far less "in-your-face" sexualization junk.
The pilot seemed so promising, but as soon she completely took over the helm, shit hit the fan.
>The pilot seemed so promising, but as soon she completely took over the helm, shit hit the fan.
If HB teached us anything it is that the premise of Vizie's shows will be forgotten in episode 2
This, another thread said it best, you could make the two factions just aliens from different worlds at war and it would make Zero difference. The Biblical framework is only being used as a set piece and pop culture references. Demons aka LGBTQ/“Alt” are unique. Good, and quirky/misunderstood. Angels are are “Trad”/Normal and framed as psychotic and “truly evil”. Framing Lucifer as a “funny lil guy” and angels as genocidal dickheads is more offensive to the material than most atheists takes
>two factions just aliens from different worlds at war
This is a personal thing but I've complained about this when Steven Universe made the Gems aliens. When you say that a creature has "life" it has to follow a general understood logic of physics and rules of nature that exist in our known universe.
Likewise it's easy to complain about "magic" but then Sailor Moon's whole mythos is only supported by Magic. I expected SU to follow this thin veil of Magic in order to make the Gems powers make sense. But because there is more lore dropped every new episode about how Gems work, they're not only REAL creatures but can be saved by Magic.
Two gems can fuse - Steven and fuse with a human - you can fuse more than one gem together - Oh but it's bad when they're FORCED to fuse, it's totally not a SEXUAL metaphor.
Gems can be shattered - Oh man, they shattered Pink Diamond - Oh SYCH, didn't happen - Steven can heal cracked gems - noone can die now.
None of these revelations help build the world, without the "it's Magical" umbrella.
Viv's hell makes it easier to explain any lore inconsistency with "magic" but no, she straight up will have an in depth explanation of how something works and why. Taxonomy of creatures and rules that each character must follow based on their species and status. She created an Alien world, but said that it was an afterlife setting, which is a realm only created by Imagination and MAGIC!
Why did they make Charlie a spineless drooling baby-brained idiot.
>obligatory pic related
Question, what the frick is with the whole "red cheek mark" thing.
That's where Charlie stores her electrical power. I remember that Vivzie said that in HB the deadly sins are based on a circus, so Lucifer and Charlie are clowns
Been like this for a while now, in fairness.
Wow, thanks for this gif(t). I'll keep it saved forever.
I dont give a frick about Digital Circus. That shit is just creepy as frick.
I don't like the pacing or the story going in a different direction each episode. Where's the fun shenanigans trying to redeem people?