no it didn't, it was just a cheap way for Duggan to get an extra-sized issue for Iron Man by having a wedding issue where the wedding is all a ploy to get a step closer in defeating Orchis
X-Men still has a large, if aging fanbase of straight white fans who got into it in the 80s or 90s and follow it with the passion, loyalty and devotion of sports team fans, complete with weird grudges against "rival" teams. They're either in complete denial about how gay X-Men has gotten, or are just treating it like another bad run (or "bad season") that they have to ride out because one day things might get good again. If they didn't wake up and nope out by the first Hellfire Gala they're never going to. I used to read it, but not with that kind of passion, it was just another Marvel book, so it was easier to quit than it would be for them. Assuming Marvel itself keeps going it's more likely there'll be a big die-off in another 4-5 decades than those guys actually ever quitting.
Pretty much this. With how bloated the X-men cast is, it's a lot easier to get the fans interested again through another giant purge than it is to do something different. Or at least with Hox/Pox something that looks different until the other shoe drops and it's the same old shit just with the X-men being bigger pricks.
This one knows. I'm an aging heterosexual X-Men fan who got into it in the late '90s. I struggled for a long time but finally noped after they turned Scott/Logan/Jean into a disgusting threesome. This was the last straw for me. After ’97 tho, I think I’m starting to come back again like a battered wife, hoping that maybe this time things will be better.
>I think I’m starting to come back again like a battered wife, hoping that maybe this time things will be better.
It won't, and you know it won't.
The whole analogy about the older fans behaving like fans of a sports team even carries over to the weird grudges against people working on the comics who did a perfectly cromulent job and kept the books performing well, but they replaced a "star player" or were seen as having driven one out.
X-Men still has a large, if aging fanbase of straight white fans who got into it in the 80s or 90s and follow it with the passion, loyalty and devotion of sports team fans, complete with weird grudges against "rival" teams. They're either in complete denial about how gay X-Men has gotten, or are just treating it like another bad run (or "bad season") that they have to ride out because one day things might get good again. If they didn't wake up and nope out by the first Hellfire Gala they're never going to. I used to read it, but not with that kind of passion, it was just another Marvel book, so it was easier to quit than it would be for them. Assuming Marvel itself keeps going it's more likely there'll be a big die-off in another 4-5 decades than those guys actually ever quitting.
Wolverine is the straight bait
He carries this gay franchise
why did X-Men end up so gay when there are so many hot women more than any other Marlel property? was it the muh civil rights allegory they love to harp on about?
>why did X-Men end up so gay when there are so many hot women more than any other Marlel property? was it the muh civil rights allegory they love to harp on about?
That, and Claremont constantly lesbian-teasing characters because it was one of his fetishes. Those two things gave homosexuals a way in to X-Men that just wasn't there with most other superhero books. We're years into the colonization and demographic replacement stage of things now, and as mentioned already, a lot of the original fanbase is in denial that this has even happened.
Basically, yeah. It's one of those franchise where twittergays and internet progressives get to turn around and say "um ACKSHULLAY, it was always 'WOKE' you heckin racist, sexist CHUD/GAMMON, so if you don't like it then GET OUT"
They just ignore the fact that the series in question used to be able to make good, entertaining stories with a viewpoint behind them, instead of just making heavy-handed and obnoxiously moralistic political points and calling it art. The same sort of thing has happened to Star Trek and Doctor Who as well, and probably more series besides.
>the "Wonder Woman of Marvel
The fact that people have to draw the comparison proves X character is, in fact, not. If they reached that foggy but somehow prestigious status, Wonder Woman would be called the X of DC, not the other way 'round.
You guys are unironiclly c**ts.
The problem isn't gay colonization or whatever schizo shit you posted, it's that the sliding time scale and perpetual status quo make all the stories run around in circles and have to increasingly invent new obtuse bullshit to draw the readerbase back. That and it lost the balance between social commentary, action, and character drama to the point where it's nothing but self-felating character drama and action motivated by incompetent writers and editors.
You frick heads would probably call God Loves, Man Kills woke if it came out now.
Leave X-Men alone, retvrn to Claremont and nothing else.
Also, this. The fact that nothing ever ends is the most fundamental problem with superhero comics, but no one's ever addressed it.
It's funny. Umberto Eco of all people pointed out the inevitable problems of writing a comic book series where time never actually progresses over 50 years ago, and nobody listened to him. Pic related should be required reading.
For real. I enjoy reading comics but I have to turn my brain off and accept this sort of anachronistic pseudo timeline in my head.
That's why for all its flaws, I really liked the 2000's Ultimate universe. It had a beginning, middle, and end, with over arching themes that paid off, and character arcs. Everything felt finite and definitive, which made it appealing because I knew it wasn't about to be uno reverso'd.
I wish Marvel just did a reboot every decade or something. Just, start the universe with characters getting their origins, have them go through a few arcs that culminate in big crossover global events that relate to each other, then end the universe, either literally or just the end of that story. 4 to 6 to 8 years, then do it again.
Basically, yeah. It's one of those franchise where twittergays and internet progressives get to turn around and say "um ACKSHULLAY, it was always 'WOKE' you heckin racist, sexist CHUD/GAMMON, so if you don't like it then GET OUT"
They just ignore the fact that the series in question used to be able to make good, entertaining stories with a viewpoint behind them, instead of just making heavy-handed and obnoxiously moralistic political points and calling it art. The same sort of thing has happened to Star Trek and Doctor Who as well, and probably more series besides.
I mean, the art of subtlety has seemingly been atrophied in recent years it feels. For example, that Borchum show that is getting spammed on this board not because it's good or funny, but because it BTFO'S THE FRICKING Black personA AND LIBTARDS HE SAID PRONOUNS ARE.CRONGE BASED BASE DUUUUGH GUNNA CUM.
And I feel that's because social media has enabled us to develop echo chambers to the point we are breeding out empathy and rationalism in order to embrace the comfort of tribal narratives. This makes us not want art, which is supposed to make you think and reconsider, but to demand propaganda. The right and left alike want morality plays, not explorations of the human condition which X-Men is primed for in the colorful coat of high octane action and fun character drama. See Claremont, again.
It's telling that Invincible is one of the biggest capeshit successes in recent years. I think it's largely down to the fact that it has a beginning, middle, and end, with very clear character arcs and plot developments throughout until it reaches its conclusion. There's something similar with the MCU. Pre-Infinity War/Endgame, they had character progression and the sense of building up to a climax. After Endgame, they've given an ending to their main characters of Iron Man and Captain America and defeated their big bad antagonist, but the series is still going and is, predictably, struggling. >I wish Marvel just did a reboot every decade or something.
That might stave off the entropy for a little while longer, but I think, eventually, it'd just end up with the same exact problem we've got now. >This makes us not want art, which is supposed to make you think and reconsider, but to demand propaganda. The right and left alike want morality plays, not explorations of the human condition
It used to be, back in the 20th century, that it was the cultural right which had a monopoly on sanctimonious busybodying and moralising (e.g., McCarthyism, the Moral Majority) But within the last decade, the cultural left realised there was nothing stopping THEM from doing it, too. So now both social conservatives and progressives get to be self-serving, self-righteous tools who think the best way to get someone on "their side" is to bash them over the head with an obvious point.
Also, this. The fact that nothing ever ends is the most fundamental problem with superhero comics, but no one's ever addressed it.
It's funny. Umberto Eco of all people pointed out the inevitable problems of writing a comic book series where time never actually progresses over 50 years ago, and nobody listened to him. Pic related should be required reading.
This board has had this argument since practically its inception, only the most stubborn capeslop morons at this point deny that ALL these franchises would benefit from clear defined beginning middle and end. But the rough beast of these series still lumber forth even with the catastrophic drop in readership. I subscribe to the school of thought where you just choose your own end point and say frick it to anything that comes afterwards. And let's be honest, for about 20 - 25 years the comics have been nothing but springboards for other media, movies TV and games, where you can get a focused narrative and an ending.
>But the rough beast of these series still lumber forth even with the catastrophic drop in readership. >And let's be honest, for about 20 - 25 years the comics have been nothing but springboards for other media, movies TV and games, where you can get a focused narrative and an ending.
The two problems are directly related.
These beasts are kept lumbering because Marvel and DC feel the need to keep the IPs in a recognisable state primed for adaptation. They don't really care about the comics directly anymore, because the money is elsewhere now, but they still want to exercise control over them.
Which is why Batman never wins in his war on crime, why Spider-Man never truly grows up, why the X-Men will never achieve mutant equality, and so on and so forth.
no it didn't, it was just a cheap way for Duggan to get an extra-sized issue for Iron Man by having a wedding issue where the wedding is all a ploy to get a step closer in defeating Orchis
was this funded by Saudi Arabia?
other oil money
>Cover is a big wedding
>issue is Vegas shotgun shit
Why do they continue to lie
Emma used her powers to make you think the cover was gonna happen! Psych!
Does Emma have a relationship with the Stepford Cuckoos now?
> "Wonder Woman of Marvel!
What did she do to deserve such a punishment?
she ate a live rat
Are there any straight fans of her because on Twitter her fans don’t seem like it and I am not a fan.
Are there any straight fans of X-Men at all for like the past 20 years?
X-Men still has a large, if aging fanbase of straight white fans who got into it in the 80s or 90s and follow it with the passion, loyalty and devotion of sports team fans, complete with weird grudges against "rival" teams. They're either in complete denial about how gay X-Men has gotten, or are just treating it like another bad run (or "bad season") that they have to ride out because one day things might get good again. If they didn't wake up and nope out by the first Hellfire Gala they're never going to. I used to read it, but not with that kind of passion, it was just another Marvel book, so it was easier to quit than it would be for them. Assuming Marvel itself keeps going it's more likely there'll be a big die-off in another 4-5 decades than those guys actually ever quitting.
Pretty much this. With how bloated the X-men cast is, it's a lot easier to get the fans interested again through another giant purge than it is to do something different. Or at least with Hox/Pox something that looks different until the other shoe drops and it's the same old shit just with the X-men being bigger pricks.
This one knows. I'm an aging heterosexual X-Men fan who got into it in the late '90s. I struggled for a long time but finally noped after they turned Scott/Logan/Jean into a disgusting threesome. This was the last straw for me. After ’97 tho, I think I’m starting to come back again like a battered wife, hoping that maybe this time things will be better.
>I think I’m starting to come back again like a battered wife, hoping that maybe this time things will be better.
It won't, and you know it won't.
The whole analogy about the older fans behaving like fans of a sports team even carries over to the weird grudges against people working on the comics who did a perfectly cromulent job and kept the books performing well, but they replaced a "star player" or were seen as having driven one out.
Does DPFan treated as XMen fan?
Wolverine is the straight bait
He carries this gay franchise
>Wolverine is the straight bait
The Jackman movies
>alternate universe Wolverine that never gets brought up again because Marvel knows Wolverine carries the franchise
why did X-Men end up so gay when there are so many hot women more than any other Marlel property? was it the muh civil rights allegory they love to harp on about?
>why did X-Men end up so gay when there are so many hot women more than any other Marlel property? was it the muh civil rights allegory they love to harp on about?
That, and Claremont constantly lesbian-teasing characters because it was one of his fetishes. Those two things gave homosexuals a way in to X-Men that just wasn't there with most other superhero books. We're years into the colonization and demographic replacement stage of things now, and as mentioned already, a lot of the original fanbase is in denial that this has even happened.
Basically, yeah. It's one of those franchise where twittergays and internet progressives get to turn around and say "um ACKSHULLAY, it was always 'WOKE' you heckin racist, sexist CHUD/GAMMON, so if you don't like it then GET OUT"
They just ignore the fact that the series in question used to be able to make good, entertaining stories with a viewpoint behind them, instead of just making heavy-handed and obnoxiously moralistic political points and calling it art. The same sort of thing has happened to Star Trek and Doctor Who as well, and probably more series besides.
Who is she married to?
tony stark
Me
>the "Wonder Woman of Marvel
The fact that people have to draw the comparison proves X character is, in fact, not. If they reached that foggy but somehow prestigious status, Wonder Woman would be called the X of DC, not the other way 'round.
cut and paste cuckhold sisters is moronic. youd think theyd change the facial expressions slightly or tilt head or some shit at least, but no.
Wonder Woman has her own ongoing.
That is not a title you want.
You guys are unironiclly c**ts.
The problem isn't gay colonization or whatever schizo shit you posted, it's that the sliding time scale and perpetual status quo make all the stories run around in circles and have to increasingly invent new obtuse bullshit to draw the readerbase back. That and it lost the balance between social commentary, action, and character drama to the point where it's nothing but self-felating character drama and action motivated by incompetent writers and editors.
You frick heads would probably call God Loves, Man Kills woke if it came out now.
Leave X-Men alone, retvrn to Claremont and nothing else.
Also, this. The fact that nothing ever ends is the most fundamental problem with superhero comics, but no one's ever addressed it.
It's funny. Umberto Eco of all people pointed out the inevitable problems of writing a comic book series where time never actually progresses over 50 years ago, and nobody listened to him. Pic related should be required reading.
For real. I enjoy reading comics but I have to turn my brain off and accept this sort of anachronistic pseudo timeline in my head.
That's why for all its flaws, I really liked the 2000's Ultimate universe. It had a beginning, middle, and end, with over arching themes that paid off, and character arcs. Everything felt finite and definitive, which made it appealing because I knew it wasn't about to be uno reverso'd.
I wish Marvel just did a reboot every decade or something. Just, start the universe with characters getting their origins, have them go through a few arcs that culminate in big crossover global events that relate to each other, then end the universe, either literally or just the end of that story. 4 to 6 to 8 years, then do it again.
I mean, the art of subtlety has seemingly been atrophied in recent years it feels. For example, that Borchum show that is getting spammed on this board not because it's good or funny, but because it BTFO'S THE FRICKING Black personA AND LIBTARDS HE SAID PRONOUNS ARE.CRONGE BASED BASE DUUUUGH GUNNA CUM.
And I feel that's because social media has enabled us to develop echo chambers to the point we are breeding out empathy and rationalism in order to embrace the comfort of tribal narratives. This makes us not want art, which is supposed to make you think and reconsider, but to demand propaganda. The right and left alike want morality plays, not explorations of the human condition which X-Men is primed for in the colorful coat of high octane action and fun character drama. See Claremont, again.
It's telling that Invincible is one of the biggest capeshit successes in recent years. I think it's largely down to the fact that it has a beginning, middle, and end, with very clear character arcs and plot developments throughout until it reaches its conclusion. There's something similar with the MCU. Pre-Infinity War/Endgame, they had character progression and the sense of building up to a climax. After Endgame, they've given an ending to their main characters of Iron Man and Captain America and defeated their big bad antagonist, but the series is still going and is, predictably, struggling.
>I wish Marvel just did a reboot every decade or something.
That might stave off the entropy for a little while longer, but I think, eventually, it'd just end up with the same exact problem we've got now.
>This makes us not want art, which is supposed to make you think and reconsider, but to demand propaganda. The right and left alike want morality plays, not explorations of the human condition
It used to be, back in the 20th century, that it was the cultural right which had a monopoly on sanctimonious busybodying and moralising (e.g., McCarthyism, the Moral Majority) But within the last decade, the cultural left realised there was nothing stopping THEM from doing it, too. So now both social conservatives and progressives get to be self-serving, self-righteous tools who think the best way to get someone on "their side" is to bash them over the head with an obvious point.
This board has had this argument since practically its inception, only the most stubborn capeslop morons at this point deny that ALL these franchises would benefit from clear defined beginning middle and end. But the rough beast of these series still lumber forth even with the catastrophic drop in readership. I subscribe to the school of thought where you just choose your own end point and say frick it to anything that comes afterwards. And let's be honest, for about 20 - 25 years the comics have been nothing but springboards for other media, movies TV and games, where you can get a focused narrative and an ending.
Certainly. I'm 28 and trying to teach myself to draw so I can make my own fanfic comic of X-Men.
>But the rough beast of these series still lumber forth even with the catastrophic drop in readership.
>And let's be honest, for about 20 - 25 years the comics have been nothing but springboards for other media, movies TV and games, where you can get a focused narrative and an ending.
The two problems are directly related.
These beasts are kept lumbering because Marvel and DC feel the need to keep the IPs in a recognisable state primed for adaptation. They don't really care about the comics directly anymore, because the money is elsewhere now, but they still want to exercise control over them.
Which is why Batman never wins in his war on crime, why Spider-Man never truly grows up, why the X-Men will never achieve mutant equality, and so on and so forth.