This moronic mindset is why we can't have cool things anymore
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This retarded mindset is why we can't have cool things anymore
This moronic mindset is why we can't have cool things anymore
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Huh. For once I find myself agreeing with Dobson
Cringe, I bet you like jokes in MCU movies as well
Never watched a single one. But from what I read and saw, I'd estimate the inability of Marvel movies to stay serious, honest and genuine with the source material by not doing dumb quips to be far closer in mindset to the constant barrage of meaningless ""mature"" themes of sex, drugs, swears and postmodern cynicism than it is to a genuine heartfelt and serious moment in a "kids' " cartoon.
pic very much related.
>blueygay
Every single time
Based
You will be bald by the time you're 30
>says the pedophile
>You will be bald by the time you're 30
this feels like a threat
It is. Anon is gonna scalp you injun style.
Blueypedos need not apply
But Dobson is saying that's immature, are you moronic?
No because MCU is toddlershit and he's scared of violence
You're not contradicting me, moron. He says not treating a topic seriously and with respect is immature, that's the same criticism you made towards MCU movies while implying someone who agrees with Dobs would love them.
Go ahead and have a nice day
Its a pretty wide spread, none cotroversial opinion.
Saying cartoons can have mature themes and even do them well isnt some marvelous revelation.
No it isn't
People without autism are capable of understanding that words have multiple definitions. What he's doing in this comic is called conflation - inappropriately interchanging a word's definition. The "mature" in "mature content" means "for adult audiences only," and is different from the "mature" in "emotionally mature."
It's like a guy unironically saying "I don't get why black people complain about crackers so much, there's nothing wrong with dry grains! They're healthy!"
Sorry, incapable.
Incapable of understanding that words have multiple definitions
On one hand I agree with you. On the other hand I've grown up with decades of animation being considered "kid stuff". Something that cannot tell a deep or serious story by virtue of it being drawn. I feel like there's a space for more animation that takes itself seriously that's kinda being shunned.
That's just the animation age ghetto. Americans over a certain age refuse to watch animation so the market doesn't make it. Thankfully it only exists in the US, and gen X and millennials are more open to animation.
The problem is that I don't think the people who think animation is for small kids aren't going to be willing to change their mind.
>spongebob is mature
Play the opening theme again.
Everything else there is also not mature. Especially not the melodramas where you're sad because sad things happen.
You're right OP, this is one of the few armchair critic takes that ruins cool things. The most mature pieces that both respect their stories and the audience are not going to be popular things, this is just Dobson saying "I think [popular thing] is good, do you agree?"
This is why his argument is wrong.
This is important for people to learn.
You shouldn't comment on what you haven't seen, especially not with run on sentences with hard to parse double negatives.
Don't worry though, MCU is bad like most commercial films you make to get paid.
He'll eat your hair.
Honestly they should have picked a better name for "mature content" in the first place, the conflation comes from there.
This is a broken clock moment, assuming that he's referring to the Seth Rogan style of "weed frick dicks shit frick sex frick" humor. Family Guy would be a lot funnier if they were more sparing with the shock humor and allowed it to actually be shocking. Disenchantment would be watchable if they gave up on trying to make it an adult comedy and instead made it purely an action adventure series.
Having said all that, I take a lot of offense to him including Steven Universe as an example of quality, mature children's entertainment.
Dude, dobson already left the internet years ago,let it die
The desire to make something "mature" is in and of itself a stupid idea. Just write good stories.
The thing is. Did the creators named their stuff "mature" or we named it ?
Please see
"Mature" here doesn't mean "contains emotionally stable and developed content," it means "content only suitable for adults"
I saw that and it doesn't change a single thing I've said.
>T. Autism
Mature themes means themes not appropriate for children, not themes regarding emotional maturity. Pretend they're two different words.
>T. Autism
It's "t." not "T." and you don't greentext it because greentexting it is implying the implications that the person you're replying to said that. Be quiet and lurk more or just leave this website and return to reddit.
You're right about the first part but you do greentext it
t. newbie
Yes, we know you're a newbie
t. The guy banging your mother
>T. Autism
That still doesnt answer my question. Who is the one who named their stuff mature? The creator or the audience?
I think the author does a story with the intention of talking about more adult themes and/or imagery. The thing is, a kid can do a silly story with lots of blood and violence in it, but it won't necessarily be an adult story, because it'll lack the knowledge and know-how necessary to make a mature story.
Does it matter?
Yes,because being angry at labels made by stupid people is a waste of time
Fair point, if the writer just set out to tell the best story they could and people label it "mature" and "dark" and "edgy' and "gritty" and so on, then that's on the fans for being dopes.
Basically this. Fricking hate seeing tryhard writers and creators. People need to focus on simply telling a good story, don't just throw in a bunch of stuff thinking it'll end up being some sort of magic spice that'll make the story more pleasant to digest.
It is related though. Mature stories don't use crutches to make you think they're good.
>Butterfry
Its his favorite food
ITT: Bronies scared of violence
He's right, but it's the rhetorical standards set by what is implied when you say "adult films". The implication is that this is something minors are barred from, so it's not so much are heavy emotional topics as it is about content viewed as inappropriate for kids.
A mature animated drama is expensive to make and leaved even critics from the industry asking "why even make it animated?"
It's not an implication
It's the explicit definition being used
He is a moron. It's like when drones watch capeshit and think it's pinnacle of storytelling. There's tons and tons of mature movies/books/art etc that handle mature subjects more deeper than a fricking pixar movie. Up has some fine storytelling but in the end it's limited by being made for children in mind. Not a bad thing but these manchildren should watch and read more instead of consooming children's movies. There's a whole world of art out there.
>I-is that blood? NOOOO I'm shaking in fear please someone tell a joke and change the channel, I want to watch molly mcgee
Could you at least post an example of gory media that's actually good and not Kirkman trash? Let me do it for you.
We're living in a time where manchildren think Primal is edgy
I loathe people who use that term. What do they even want?
>What do they even want?
Safe toddlershit about quirky girls
And they wonder why no one takes their favorite shit seriously?
Classic pulp is edgy relative to modern trash. Imagine trying to do a proper noir story right now, you might as well be an axe murderer
I think that's a good point about noir relating back to the OP. mature media has themes that children can neither understand nor does it interest them.
Edward Norton basically remade Chinatown 3 years ago. It was shit.
A lot of morons overuse the word "edgy" to an insane degree nowadays, largely because they don't know what the term actually means.
Basically anything that's not safe, boring shit for 8 year olds gets called edgy.
I notice that it most often comes from hugboxed shit like Cinemaphile or /vp/ where you can tell the person using it has mentally regressed by many years
There was a funny thread on Cinemaphile yesterday where the OP thought it was a good idea to start a thread about what kid's cartoons you would rush back from school to watch after doing your homework...as a 16 year old.
Which I think puts a pretty big spotlight on the typical mental development of some anons on Cinemaphile.
My favorite was the one anon who talked about how excited they were for Amphibia at 16.
That thread was a hoot. I liked how totally not well adjusted but almost normal everyone was.
Yea, it's nice (in a way) to see that even weirdos on Cinemaphile can still have relatively typical childhoods outside of the whole "being a weirdo/pervert" thing.
Plus it seems like most anons were stoners/slackers in high school anyways, which sounds about right.
Yeah, maybe there's some bias here but all the comic nerds and animation or film fans I knew were stoners. Squares didn't really read or do any of that. I think outside the public facing pylons, we were and some still are more countercultural like MMO or R. Crumb than the straight laced geek stereotype. Still degenerate manchildren but a very different variety of it.
It's funny anime usually has blood and it's seen as no big deal, fans are furious when it _doesn't_ have it, such as the case with Dragon Ball Shitper
Meanwhile Cinemaphilegays start crying in fear whenever a cartoon has blood
Other boards just have manchildren of the adulescent variety, and those love edge. Normal adults aren't desperate to see blood everywhere.
It's more just that other boards have manchildren, while Cinemaphile has womanchildren and gay manchildren, who tend to not like violence as much and instead want to drown themselves in endless "comfy" vibes, usually via watching kid's cartoons.
Fascination for violence is inherently adolescent.
t. straight adult male
I'm sorry that you are so sheltered anon, but you, the sheltered white male, do not represent humanity as a whole.
Humans have always had a fascination with violence, regardless of age, regardless of era, regardless of gender.
Not humans, just morons.
The words of someone who's horribly sheltered.
As expected of a modern white dude.
I also see it used that way by any ironic weebs, they call anything where a character is angry edgy. Some would even call Danetedgy for, I don't know? Being carefree when doing violent stuff?
>I also see it used that way by any ironic weebs, they call anything where a character is angry edgy.
Hell, sometimes it's literally just because of a character's color palette
> just because of a character's color palette
I thought it was just a joke, like I remember seeing some "edgy identification chart" that has Mickey, Cuphead and Chicago Bulls Jordan in it just because they have black and red. But then again some people don't get the memo that it's a joke.
And Kill La Kill gotta be one of the grossest examples. I could accept somenoe caling it edgy for stuff like captured and tortured Satsuki, or Nui's murderous yet sweet personality. But it doesn't convince me if they cry edge because it has even the slightest bit of violence or even the expression Ryuko makes in your pic
I hate agreeing with Dobson, but i gotta say, it's a bit tiing to see creators throwing in a bunch of obscenity and violence because they think their stories will be somehow better with it. It's like a kid trying too hard to be cool, but just ends up being an edgy frick.
There's nothing wrong with the use of violence and stuff, but just throwing it in a story with no need, thinking it'll make it more complex or adult-oriented doesn't work, in my opinion. But people can like whatever they want.
I think several people struggle to realize that a lot of people judge the "adult"/"mature" factor of something solely by graphical fidelity, which is why loads of people who hate 2D animation will happily slurp up anything 3D in comparison.
This trend ruined video games for me. I don't want to look at misshapen attempts at realism.
"Animation is just for kids" will stop when it also stops being financially rewarding for companies to make series that are just "what if Animation but with Sex Words and Gore". In the same way that society's differing views on gender and sexuality will end when different sexualities lose their novelty and spicy marketability. Which is to say, people will grow out of it but new suckers will step up to take their place
Agreed.
Not exactly, it will happen if (not when) audiences show interest in animation aimed at adults that doesn't have those characteristics, enough that it becomes profitable to make. I don't see that happening any time soon considering even animation enthusiasts seem to completely ignore those that exist and focus on whatever is marketed most heavily (which is what's already proven to be profitable).
>crude emotional manipulation = mature storytelling for mature audiences of mature people
>who are mature
This whole discussion is one part semantic nonsense and one part yelling at clouds about age brackets.
I would like to add that among all those deep children stories there is a """lore""" trend, which amusingly enough is closer to "sex drugs and violence" in attitude.
Just add a minute of "overarching plot" to your episodic nonsense or have basic juxtaposition of silly/serious things and there you go: L O R E. Still trying to capture the lightning that was Gravity Falls.
>Still trying to capture the lightning that was Gravity Falls.
Lost walked so Gravity Falls could shit its pants
I don't get the idea that continuity is inherently better or more mature than episodic. Seems moronic.
he's right but uses the wrong examples
the Monster Trio themselves
>imagine being so fat, you look at a butterfly and think of food.
>*pop*
I sometimes think the only people with the mental fortitude and determination to go through with the production of an animated series need to be mentally unstable in some way or really obnoxious, either way they I feel they end up producing some rather lackluster media propped up by "lolsorandom!", "gross-out", gratuitous violence and/or swearing...
He isn't neccesarily wrong. I have seen plenty of kid's movies that manage to tell an emotionally resonant story better than most films aimed at adults but it would be nice to have more animated movies actually focused on telling stories for adults. Mature doesn't have to mean blood, guts and the frick word. It can just mean telling a nuanced story in a way that wouldn't register with little kids. When I think of ideal adult animation my mind goes to the works of Satoshi Kon.
One I think more people should watch is Rilakkuma & Kaoru.
>I would argue that many children's cartoons and comics often treat these mature subject matters with far more respect than the hardest "dark, grim, and gritty" stories?
I feel like he's restricting his definition of "dark, grim, and gritty" to stuff like Reboots or Tarantino movies and ignoring the actual serious dramas out there.
He's a mega manchild, his idea of "dark, grim, and gritty" when he made this comic was probably a fricking Saw movie.
There's a small but not insignificant chance he was referring to The Wire or Breaking Bad.
A lot of people in this thread is making the same mistake.
>Citing Steven Universe as an example of mature storytelling
>Posting Amphibia
Even if Dobson and I can agree on something, he just comes out looking like a tool because his opinions are surface level. I mean he's saying Spongebob tackles mature subjects. It's like saying Seasmie Street is mature because Elmo's dad comes to tell Elmo racism is bad on a zoom call.
Sure good stories don't need to be "mature" and often stuff made for adults can be more immature than actual children's shows but good stories need to be bold
Lots of kid's cartoons can be bold but defiantly not what Dobson this is bold
Dobson's opinion is "right" in the most surface level of all things.
Yeah sure, the medium of animation and comics can be told to tell also a mature story.
One of my favorite animated movies of all time is Barefoot Gen, a Cinemaphile drama about the bombing of Hiroshima. Or how about the most famous adaptation of Animal Farm being animated.
The problem I have with Dobson here is as followed
a) the way he formulates his opinion, he is essentially degrading any other story out here that he can't consume in his favorite medium.
b) hsi examples are garbage. MLP, Spongebob and SU (among others) tackling mature subjects in a meaningful way? SU tried to be about LGBT representation and has been criticized by people of the community for failing at it.
c) it doesn't ignore the fact that for the few "mature yet childfriendly" shows and comics out there, there are also just an overall shitton of stuff with the lowest common denominator.
I mean, lets put it this way: The most succesful animated movie of the year is not some "drama about a half chinese girl dealing with her abusive mom" it is a bunch ofyellow tic tacs doing kung fu,
And why is that? Because sometimes entertainment is more important than lecturing someone
And finally, am I really supposed to be lectured about "mature" storytelling in children media by the guy who made Lesbian Kick and is such an unpleasant human being, I wished he died of covid?
Why Spongebob? Wouldn't AtLAB be a better choice?
>Butterfry
.... am I really the only one seeing this?
When I saw what was blacked out I laughed. Are the mods really that strict
>adult content shouldn't just be nonstop violence and toilet humor
Have to reluctantly agree with dob on this one
>MUH HECKIN CHILDREN'S CARTOONS ARE THE DEEPEST THING EVER
And he goes right back into cringe manchild territory
Goddamn I'm not even against enjoying children's media or anything, but you should just own it and like it for what it is rather than trying to pretend it's something super incredible or anything.
Does anyone know what happened to CattyN? Did Dobson kill them?
Cute bear.
I would frick the bear up the butt
But I thought Dobson hated Ash?
>Butterfry
Why would anyone look to the opinion of a manchild for examples of maturity?
Eh, the first panel is correct, but then he implies anything serious or that makes people cry is mature.
To me a mature story is grounded in reality (no magic, talking dogs or supernatural shit like that) and mostly deals with topics that a child would find boring (but an adult wouldn't). Honestly I'd say most media adults consume isn't very mature either.
I'm not sure why you think it has anything to do with what gets made though.
>To me a mature story is grounded in reality (no magic, talking dogs or supernatural shit like that) and mostly deals with topics that a child would find boring
So would you say that something like old folklore or religious mythology cannot be mature?
I can't really think of any that deal with their topics in a mature way, so I guess not.
Followup question, are you American?
No, and I've read my fair share of mythology and old folklore. Are you a homosexual?
The problem with a lot of millennials is that deep down, their idea of "mature programming" is seinen anime from 20 to 30 years ago. But if you told them to watch something, say, actually educational, they'd whine "UGH, I'M NOT A BOOMER"