Threads kvetching about the declining cultural relevancy of cartoons eventually have an anon blaming anime for being much more attractive to viewers. Sometimes there's even the implication that western animation will be made almost obselete by anime altogether. But if there were ever a moment for that, shouldn't it have already happened by now?
None of them have been as culturally relevant and explosive as Pokemon, which debuted in the late 90s. Can't imagine how much cheaper it was to license and dub over an existing cartoon rather than create one from the ground up
While there were dedicated blocks to dubbed anime on CN, Fox, etc, what stopped it from taking over entirely?
Please return to /misc/
Rent free
gay
>toongays have been whining about anime for 20 years
Imagine if they spent that time maintaining a healthy industry instead
/misc/ likes cartoons too. Problem?
Op you're a moron but I'm not gonna bother explaining why because you're an immigrant and I'm not gonna waste my time fitting one with knowledge that isn't gonna benefit Cinemaphile in any way
Suck on my wiener till the juice come out
>Sometimes there's even the implication that western animation will be made almost obselete by anime altogether. But if there were ever a moment for that, shouldn't it have already happened by now?
Because even when anime is more popular than cartoons, that doesn't mean it's more profitable than cartoons *for American networks and streamers.* A chunk of that money is going to Japan. There are more hands at the anime table.
The logical course of action would seem to be for American companies to acquire Japanese animation studios. But that's not going to happen because, much to the relief of anime fans, foreign companies cannot hold a majority stake in a Japanese company in certain industries.
>The logical course of action would seem to be for American companies to acquire Japanese animation studios
I suppose we're seeing the next best thing now, shows with the faux-anime style like Netflixvania
The idea of western animation being gender-segregated is depressing. Is there a breakdown of the stats somewhere?
Disney+ subscribers are apparently slightly over 50% male but that tells me nothing about age groups
>The idea of western animation being gender-segregated is depressing
It's a natural result of the industry spawning primarily from the 80's toy markets which were heavily sex-segregated.
Yes but regardless of whether boys were watching He-Man and girls were watching Jem and purchasing the corresponding toys, it still meant they were both watching cartoons
>>The idea of western animation being gender-segregated is depressing
>It's a natural result of the industry spawning primarily from the 80's toy markets which were heavily sex-segregated.
thats what adults want but it doesnt work that way.
Boys ended up watching shera and buying the badguy toys of the show. They would later end up watching salor moon. Girls also watched a lot of boys cartoons. Everyone watched disney afternoon stuff despite it being big on adventure which executives tend to assume is for boys.
Kids will watch anything so long as the gendered themes aren't super heavy handed. And even then some boys will still watch girls shows and girls will watch boys shows if the designs are appealing.
>Kids will watch anything so long as the gendered themes aren't super heavy handed
Gives me hope. I remember hearing how Disney's silly trend of single word movie titles is for this specific reason, since something like "Frozen" is a little more gender-ambiguous than "The Snow Queen/Princess"
>I suppose we're seeing the next best thing now, shows with the faux-anime style like Netflixvania
That, and western companies directly commissioning Japanese studios like Cyberpunk and Scott Pilgrim. It's just like normal outsourcing, but also letting the Japanese handle pre-production. There's just no particular reason not to in this day and age.
My original suggestion was partly in jest, because western companies are not in the habit of absorbing other companies for manpower/talent. They only buy other studios for their IP. Japanese animation studios typically don't own many IP, and American studios cannot utilize the full output capacity of a Japanese studio to justify owning it.
Right now is a perfect time for a forward-looking Japanese studio to specialize in doing foreign production only before, just as Spectrum, TMS, and WDAJ had done once before. Disney's internal animation is crashing and burning, Netflix can't run their own studio properly, and Amazon is awash in money and still looking for shows to elevate their position.
>implying anime isn't also gender-segregated
They literally have specific terms for it in Japan. Shounen is for young boys, Seinen for older males, shoujo for young girls, jousei for older females. Little Japanese boys weren't watching Pretty Cure, and little Japanese girls weren't watching Mazinger.
I meant to lament boys being locked out of western animation entirely (assuming it's true), given there aren't any shounen equivalents to girls' cartoons
They’d make their money through merch and home video. Same deal as regular tv shows.
>what stopped anime from totally killing western animation
Western animation pivoted.
Boys love shounen but the general female audience wasn't being pandered to by the shows that crossed the pond, and that's the gap that western animation filled as boys moved to anime and video games. That's why early 2000's cartoons tend to either be faux-anime or western slice-of-life or a combination of the two.
Why is Tom mad that his Looney Tunes Lite characters who stopped being funny in 1996 aired less and made room for a franchise that kids at the time actually wanted to watch and play?
Cause they weren't israeli
>what stopped it from taking over entirely?
Eventually the licensors thought they were hot shit and upped the price to networks
No other shows could get close to Pokemon or DBZ, so it clearly wasn't worth it
For a short period though, DBZ was the highest rated show on all of cable. Not just kiddie channels, but the entirety of cable. Quite a feat for Cartoon Network
i hate how anime went straight from obscure to old hat, I never had a chance to be 'with it.'
anyway, the industry tied itself in a knot, so any further possibilities have been cut off. nobody is willing to let anyone else make a buck.
Anyone who thinks anime was somehow in competition with western shit does not remember the period from like '98 to '05 where they were damnright synergized
>Threads kvetching about the declining cultural relevancy of cartoons eventually have an anon blaming anime for being much more attractive to viewers.
those threads are made with the intent to be east vs. west pissing contests
I'm going to guess no one actually read the image or what the guy said.
If you expand it and read it, it sounds like the rights owners to pokemon gave the show to WBs for free.
FOR FREE.
Nothing can compete with that. No one is the US is going to give a show away for free. It took Hasbro what, 40 years to give the transformers cartoon that advertises half their toys away on youtube?
Anime didn't kill western animation. Nintendo and Game Freak did.
It's also worth noting that the Japanese studio saw NONE of the overseas Pokemon anime money. There was an interview where they mentioned they didn't even realize it was popular overseas until the First Movie made so much money in America that Japanese news stations were reporting on it.
Back then, anime was such a D-list thing in the west that Nintendo essentially just handed it to 4kids for free since they were the only ones remotely interested in the license, then 4kids (who were a kids brand management company who mainly dealt in stuff like the Cabbage Patch Kids IP) had to find someone who actually had experience making a worthwhile anime dub. They ended up calling the guy responsible for the Slayers dub, since it was really the only well-made anime dub they could find that was even remotely similar to Pokemon's tone.
Absolutely nobody involved foresaw the Pokemon anime being as huge as it was. The Pokemon Company ended up having to take the rights back once the contract ended because they realized licensing out such a huge cashcow was a mistake (the same went for the TCG).
>It's also worth noting that the Japanese studio saw NONE of the overseas Pokemon anime money
I feel bad for them if that's truly the case. Maybe not especially bad considering it was successful in their home country too, but still
The 4kids story is even weirder
At the height of pokemania they used their insane profits to buy a good sized share of The Pokemon Company. So even if the deal to manage the anime for Nintendo ended, it didn't matter. They got a cut of all the profit Pokemon made in every sector of the market
Around 2008 or so they felt Pokemon had run its course and sold the shares back to raise money for new projects.
Cartoons are less relevant because they have no home
Anime in Japan still airs like Saturday morning cartoons did here before 2000. Everyone knows when and where to find them. They're often adaptations of other already popular media, like how every movie here used to get a show
And if you want to watch anime as an American, like 99% of it is centralized in one place: Crunchyroll. Whether it's an older series you want to check out or something brand new, they probably have it up
Meanwhile in the US cartoons don't air on broadcast TV even though everyone can get broadcast for free. There's 3 channels on cable more or less dedicated to cartoons, but each year less content is produced because nobody has cable anymore. Among the major streaming platforms cartoons are an afterthought, and any new ones are typically quickly axed. Old content is shuttled off each channel or platform to reduce operating costs or save tax money
Cartoons need a place that acts as a library for old content, brings in content from around the world (not just the US), and actively promotes and showcases new content
>There's 3 channels on cable more or less dedicated to cartoons, but each year less content is produced because nobody has cable anymore.
That or stuffed gets shoved of to sister channels that you HAVE to pay for, along with a bunch of other channels you don't want
>Disney shoving to XD
>CN shoving to Boomerang (which was supposed to be a home for all the Hanna-Barbera stuff, but that's no longer the case)
>Nick shoving to NickToons
How many 1 billion dollar grossing anime films are there? None? Ok, frick off homosexual
Soon, soon
>None of them have been as culturally relevant and explosive as Pokemon
That's because pokemon was heavily marketed, censored and localized for kids and western audiences
You don't see that type of shit anymore nowadays
I disagree with Tom Ruegger. It was more that interest was waning in Saturday morning cartoons and Pokemon (and later Yugioh) being so cheap and profitable was literally the only reason they were able to stay on the air. By 2000, all of the other Saturday morning cartoon blocks were either gone or were on their last years. ABC would start airing Disney Channel reruns around that time, Fox Kids was just a few years away from being replaced with an anime block, and CBS and NBC were... I don't even remember what they were doing. I think they were airing Discovery Kids reruns or something.
They stopped investing in shit like Animaniacs because nobody was watching Histeria and the Pokemon money could only keep them afloat as long as they weren't bleeding money elsewhere.
Part of the issue is those cartoons were too self-aware and mature. Something like 70% of the jokes on Animaniacs go right over the heads of a little kid watching. Stuff like Ren & Stimpy had the same problem. Basically Simpsons without the swearing. Cartoons like Spongebob and EEnE that knew they were for kids and made no attempt to try and court an older audience were smash hits for their respective networks.
>Part of the issue is those cartoons were too self-aware and mature
I love how cartoon reviewer types use this to praise shows
When in reality kids don't really care about that shit
They like pokemon because it has adventure with bright and colorful characters and a somewhat cool kid MC
It also was episodic so you don't have to keep track of some overarching plot, but there's still an end goal to keep them invested
Because it stopped being so cheap to license those programs. Once the demand was high enough from Western audiences, they asked for more money to license the IPs. Same shit happened to Toonami.
Someone post that paul rudish comment.
>Monopolize the western air waves for half a centaury
>Have characters every child knows and loves
>Japan releases one(1) anime which isn't even that good.
>Dismantles the entire system