Few days ago, Campbell did an interview about the upcoming 150th issue and his 50 issue run as the head writer for TMNT and I think there's a few interesting, but unsurprising things in there.
After the storytime of all the IDW TMNT comics, I'm sure some of you will appreciate this.
Forgot the fricking link
https://www.cbr.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-sophie-campbell-interview/
>When you joined the book, it already had 100 issues of an established storyline. What were your first thoughts about taking the reins?
>I actually didn't want to do it at first. My first answer to the offer was no because taking the reins seemed like so much pressure, but I'm sure glad I ended up saying yes. When I first took the job, I was only supposed to write 12 issues, so my original pitch for the story was much bigger and tighter. I tried to cram in everything I wanted to do into one year of the series in a single big blow-out of a story. Like, if this was going to be my one shot at doing my TMNT, then I was going to go all out! That was my original thought, but obviously, things shook out differently.
Campbell wasn't supposed to hold the reigns this long, but ended up going for 5 years instead of 1, and that's likely on IDW not having something better lined up, not planning things with Waltz, and probably changing plans to put people to work on more Last Ronin comics after that blew up.
This meant that the 12 issue story Campbell had originally planned had to be stretched out indefinitely. The unfocused, meandering pace of Mutant Town was both caused by IDW and Waltz not knowing when they intended to push Campbell aside and I think the writing shows that. Looking back at those first 30 or so issues, it's very obvious that Campbell was writing like he never knew how many more issues he had to do anything big.
>Other than that first story pitch, my first order of business was to make Jennika feel more integrated into the group. Tom Waltz introduced her in the thick of his "City at War" storyline, and he stepped off the book shortly after Jennika was mutated, so I felt like I had this big elephant in the room when I stepped in. I guess I could have just killed Jennika off immediately [laughs], but it was an exciting challenge to figure out how she fits or doesn't fit, into the established dynamic of the other Turtles and what her relationships with each Turtle would be. I don't know whether or not I've been entirely successful, but that was one of my big initial thoughts, like: Oh, wow, I'm taking over writing on TMNT, but I have a fifth Turtle to deal with!
Again, Waltz is to blame. Everyone pretends like Jennika was Campbell's idea, and that introducing this spunky female trans-turtle was his plan all along, and that he worked with Waltz to inject that into the story... But the thing that's not being said here is that Waltz didn't leave any notes. He didn't have any plans for her. He shoved in a whole new character on a whim, turtle'd her, dropped her in the TMNT's lap, and walked away to leave this rookie artist/writer to figure it out. The planning is fricking abysmal at IDW.
But Campbell made her a classic annoying woke character. She always mock the four turtles as just babies because she is their big sister now, not April. Waltz and Campbell are responsible for this. Waltz create this shit boring character, and Campbell made her even unlikeable.
Jokingly calling them babies because she's older than them isn't woke, my dude. She is pretty unlikable, though.
Not even surprising.
>Mutant Town has been a major part of the run since Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #101. What has this part of the TMNT Universe meant to you?
>This was another challenging but fun thing Tom left me with. He'd had Old Hob detonate a mutagen bomb that mutated a bunch of people, so when I took over, I had to figure out what happened to them all and how -- or if -- they would fit into the larger TMNT world. Originally, I had wanted to expand the mutagen bomb effects and have the entirety of Manhattan become mutants and have the city walled off like Escape from New York, but we ended up scaling it back, which I think was the right way to go.
Waltz... again. Campbell is being polite, but the undertone is "this old stupid frick did a bunch of moronic bullshit, fricked up the whole goddamn comic and then IDW told me to pick up the pieces"
He probably thought it would be a cool, exciting thing to throw in for the lead up to #100, but Waltz did that shit all the time. The plot-first writing was actually just mindless, childish "AND THEN WHAT IF THIS HAPPENED?!" and instead of there being some grand plot arc, he just published that shit and assumed he'd just figure it out later, if he wanted to do it at all. In hindsight, this makes every fricking major plot point in IDW's entire run seem like Waltz did the exact same thing.
TMNT always goes to shit in every iteration once the conflict goes from secret urban legend mutant ninjas and aliens to public knowledge and then major world-shattering events.
Hard agree. I know the interdimensional alien shit and really gonzo storylines were there from the start, but the TMNT really shine when they stick to street/sewer level strangeness, instead of trying to make them into the Avengers who have to constantly save all of time and space and a whole multiverse all the fricking time.
>In hindsight, I always see things in my work that I wish I'd done differently. So, when thinking about Mutant Town, I tend to think about ways I could've done it better or missed opportunities or whatever, but I'm still proud of what I was able to do with it. It was an opportunity to do a whole brave new world for the Turtles -- a situation they'd never been in. They could finally mingle with other people without having to hide. They could finally have real lives in a real community. So, that aspect of it was really exciting and interesting to me. How would the Turtles fit into a larger community/neighborhood? What roles would they gravitate toward? That sort of stuff.
>I'm a big fan of Volume 4 of Mirage's TMNT, in which aliens land and integrate into Earth society, which allows the Turtles to pretend to be aliens and walk around in broad daylight, so I felt like the Mutant Town stuff was my spin on that idea. Something we'd never seen in IDW's TMNT before. I guess that's what it means to me, to answer the question, that I was able to do something new for these old, established characters and -- for better or for worse -- put my own personal stamp on it.
I think I can see what Campbell was going for, and I'm glad he can acknowledge that he slipped up and could have done better. Even the guy who wrote it knows it was a mess, and I can't really blame him, given the conditions and people he was forced to work with to get it made at all.
>Which character has grown on you the most through your run and why?
>Probably Hob. Not that I didn't like him before -- he's always been great -- but I never pictured myself having any sort of deeper connection with him as a character or anything. It turned out I really enjoyed writing him. I loved coming up with ways for him to show a vulnerable, caring side to his personality, like his genuine affection for the Weasels while at the same time keeping them caged up. I liked writing him trying to run Mutant Town only to be overwhelmed by it and despised for it.
>That's another hindsight thing. I wish I'd gotten to explore that more -- how Hob was just not equipped for the aftermath of the mutagen bomb and regretted it. I remember one panel in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #113 where I drew him sitting alone in the dark in his compound, listening to the radio and looking all lonely and dejected with a stack of paperwork -- ugh! -- on his desk. That's the world he'd unwittingly built for himself and he has to live with it. Hob never expected he'd have to figure out the logistics of supply distribution and infrastructure, and he never expected to become emotionally attached to any of the mutants he'd created and subsequently sold off to Karai. I loved writing all that stuff, and I wish I could've written a Hob miniseries to go along with those earlier issues that dug deeper into his motivations when it came to Mutant Town.
I remember a ton of "WHAT THE FRICK IS HOB DOING?!" talk throughout the last few years while these comics were being published. There was an attempt to tell that story, usually by focusing on Hob and the Weasels, and it came off as awkward and forced, since we'd get a battle of the bands arc or a motorcycle race to kill time, because no one knows for sure when they're going to do Armageddon Game for 3 fricking years. Again, Campbell acknowledges he could have done more with the ideas he tried to set up.
Sophie Campbell is a woman, you chud
Sophie's real name is Ross. And he is a GUY! A guy with a mental disorder!
Who cares? It's their life.
*his life
Not caring about mental disorders is why we have rampant degeneracy!
>What can you reveal about what awaits fans for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #150?
>"Life, at best, is bittersweet."
Lol lmao
>Not many comic books get to 150 issues without some sort of reboot in the process. Why do you think TMNT has managed to achieve what most others can't here?
>Obviously, part of it is the overall affection for TMNT and its name recognition. People still love it after all these years, but I think the real credit goes to Tom and former editor Bobby Curnow, the first 100 issues, and the consistency they brought to it. They built IDW's TMNT from the ground up, and it's crazy how consistent Tom's run is in terms of quality and all that. He seriously built a solid foundation and then expanded from there and allowed other creators like myself to add to it. I'm on track to have worked on 50+ issues, but I don't know if it would've lasted this long without the runway that Tom, Bobby, and Kevin Eastman laid out for it.
It is really impressive that this comic lasted over a decade through a period when the Big 2 had turned comics into an unsalvageable hellscape of endless reboots and annual events so bad that they get retconned out of existence before they even end. I don't think it speaks to Tom Waltz's skill as a writer though. His run was sloppy, poorly paced, and full of baffling, frustratingly inconsistent characters. It's the kind of shit that other comics can blame on switching writers every few weeks, but this was Waltz's one-man show for a decade, and his most original ideas were often the worst. Particularly the part where he injected his white guy McDojo pseudo-orientalist wisdom into the heroes.
If anything, the long run of this comic shows that if you just have 4 turtles, in new york, fighting ninjas and going on adventures, people will probably read it. That's the power of TMNT as a concept and all the best stuff in IDW's run was just lifted from every previous version, and through some fluke, it has become the longest TMNT iteration.
Will Campbell go back to drawing fat goth dykes
He's still working on that Shadoweyes comic, but you may have to seek your fat goth dykes elsewhere, I'm afraid
Dangit. I loved wet moons art and campbells fat goth lesbians
As a final thought, IDW being the longest running series in TMNT's history is both impressive and it's going to be a little sad when none of it ever breaks containment. We'll never see Alopex again, or Old Hob, or Lita. Someone might take another crack at making Venus and Mona Lisa work, but they were legacy characters from the start. Jennika and Sheena? Gone for good. We'll sooner see someone try to do Karai again and then make her the Fifth Turtle.
When IDW goes under, whoever gets the publishing rights for the comics will either start fresh, or they'll do their best to sanitize this run and do a hard reset to status quo, and that means keeping all those donut steel fursona characters out of the story.
I’m sure some of the characters will show up in a cartoon but completely different (like Alopex in 2012).
I wouldn't expect a 1:1 port over of these characters if they were ever used. That's just the nature of making a new version of something. I just don't see anyone getting a chance to make a brand new TMNT cartoon or comic and saying they want to put in reimagined versions of Alopex and Jennika into their story, unless it was some executive mandate.
>We'll never see Alopex again, or Old Hob, or Lita.
GOOD!
I ditched IDW's run around the Invasion of the Triceratrons arc because at that point it was already obvious it had run out of steam. Should've stopped when Splinter killed Shredder in #50.
First 50 issues are a little tidier, but only because the physical limits of reality and economics stopped IDW from shitting out a few dozen more tie-in mini-series per year than they already did. It just didn't have the time to go completely to shit, but even in those early issues you can see the same sort of writing problems, even in the first few issues with Splinter telling his sons that he trained as ninjas that they were pacifists who were only ever supposed to use violence as an absolutely last resort.
Krang is fine when he's allowed to just be a generic cackling bad guy. He wants to conquer and destroy. IDW fricked up by trying to make him sympathetic. Now he wants to conquer and destroy, but also he has daddy issues and also he's trying to save his people... But his dad sucked, his people sucked, and none of them were worth saving and should have been killed immediately, as fast as possible. Then you can sort the Triceraton problem too by just giving them the stupid technodrome island.
>Waltz did it and I had to make do
>Waltz did it and I had to make do
>Waltz did it and I had to make do
>I actually did this and I don't know if it worked
Man, Waltz really FRICKED everything in City At War, didn't he? Really just mashed all his toys together and fricking walked off until he could come back and do it again. I still don't like most of what Campbell did, but I can at least sympathize that Waltz left him high and dry.
>Man, Waltz really FRICKED everything in City At War, didn't he?
Started earlier than that, but City at War was his prototype test run for Armageddon Game and he still didn't learn his fricking lesson, because just like City at War, Armageddon Game was all build up and one sudden clusterfrick of kills and then a deus ex machina to clean up the remaining big threat that no one was dealing with the whole time.
Waltz wasted half a dozen comics on Metalhead and the EPF and Hob and the M-bomb and Null Corp shit, and then at the last second, Shredder pops out of Hell and everything is great! The threat is gone.
Then he did it again, wasting time with Neutrino shit and Utroms and The Gang of Four and a whole side series about how cool Karai is, and then at the last second the MacGuffin falls into Kitsune's hand and Chi You just blows up all the problems! Yay! Event over!
I fricking hate him. I despise that Tom Waltz wakes up every day thinking he's a good writer.
>Man, Waltz really FRICKED everything in City At War, didn't he?
That was obvious from the start with how many plot beats they tried to cram in there all at once. Someone compiled all the shit that was going on in the storytime and it really laid bare just how stupid the whole thing really was.
This one?
Yep, was looking for that, thanks anon.
That list should probably be twice as long, too. There's a ton of shit left out and none of it is worth the page space being wasted on the fricking "CITY AT WAR" storyline that has more Splinter and Karai fighting random mobsters than the turtles engaging in any kind of warfare against the Foot.
>I'm too shitty of a writer so I'll blame someone else
That's not what was said. Campbell admits that the execution of several ideas was lacking and that he maybe didn't pull off what he was attempting to do. He had 12 issues of plot that had to be stretched out and padded with additional comics, and all of them were made for the purpose of killing time, because for whatever reason, IDW went into all of this with no real plan except to keep publishing comics until they could do Armageddon Game. And everything he was handed from Waltz was seemingly done with out any consideration for the future.
Waltz made a 5th turtle and made a big to-do about it, and how he talked with Eastman for a long time, because the 5th turtle thing has always been really contentious... and then he mutated several hundred people as part of the big "road to #100" event... and then he ducked the frick out without any consideration for the character and didn't even have anything planned for her in Armageddon Game. That is objectively Waltz's frick up, not Campbell's.
>that's not what was said
>says it again
It is not Waltz's fault that Campbell couldn't write with restrictions put on him. That's like how Mark Millar blamed Jeph Loeb for Ultimate Avengers 3 and 4 being shit because he couldn't use certain characters.
Alopex is just Ninjara rebranded.
Rat King and the Pantheon are just rebranded Archie and 87 Cartoon villains.
Same for the Mutanimals, Madame Null, and Cherubae and the Nova Posse and many other Armageddon Game characters.
I think some of the only original characters created by Waltz are Harold Lilja and Woody. Most of the other original characters were created by Campbell, and even a bunch of those, like Carmen and Bob, are also Archie comics characters or references to some other old TMNT media, like the weasels.
I think you're right, but I also think Mutant Town was possibly the best way to have the turtles be able to walk the streets and be normal dudes, while not having to give up the fact that they are giant mutant turtles. I think the only thing they needed to do was fully embrace the superhero archetype by maintaining secret identities. They can have normal daily lives where they socialize and help other mutants and use their various skills and strengths for the good of a downtrodden area, but they gotta stay ninjas. The whole fricking point is that they aren't supposed to be seen and at best believed to be a myth.
Mutant Mayhem utterly fricked that whole plot by having them want to be as normal and human as possible, and some of the worst developments that signal the impending death of a series tend to involve them becoming too normal. No one wants to see Mikey become a celebrity or whatever. They love being turtles and the love being ninjas and that's what audiences love about them. They're COOL! and maybe it sucks that they have to stay partially hidden, but a story about a superhero who wants to quit everything so he can do algebra homework and nervously ask girls to the promscoming dance is fricking gay.
This also give me some ideas. Donnie and Mikey both call themselves David, one is a repairman help others in town fix appliances or plumbing, and the other is a radio commentator and a novelist in Mutant Town. Leo and Raph were named John and George respectively. they are the gardeners and urban farmers. Greening the Mutant Town, providing agricultural products to others.
Still a little pissed that they set up all this "I want to be a farmer" stuff with Raph and even had him talk about building greenhouses in mutant town, and then they did nothing with it.
Didn't they get their dojo burnt down like two issues after Leo and Raph were able to talk and bond a little over plants?
#123. However, the writers waste of 20+ issues to keep the turtles together, but then the turtles arguing each other, and splitting up again because of plot-first writing.
Deletegay, you really gotta stop doing this shit.
>wow this guy does something moronic and annoying on purpose!
>better fricking b***h about it because validating him will totally make him want to stop!
is it dumbfricks like you who still buy comic books?
I asked this before but I have an IDW TMNT question.
I haven't read any of this series but a few years ago I picked up an issue at Books-a-Million and Leonardo and Master Splinter were fighting about something that had gone wrong and Leonardo was telling Splinter off and called him "Rat" (or maybe rodent) instead of "master". I looked through the 'dark leo' issues but didn't find this scene.
Does anybody know what issue this scene is from? I've looked on Google trying to find an answer but it doesn't come up. 100+ issues is a lot to go through looking for one issue.
Also, I may be remembering the scene wrong but I seem to remember them being in the sewers having the argument?
I think I remember it being about Leonardo heading his own way and having some kind of disappointment in Master Splinter as a leader.
That might be much later, closer to City at War, but I don't recall Leo calling Splinter a rat. On Karai and Shredder do that.
Was there ever a point in the books where Leonardo separated from the group? Or Master Splinter left and only had brief interactions with the turtles for some reason? I know it was a one on one conversation between Leo and Splinter but that's all I can remember.
Leo had distain for Splinter for some reason and called him a 'rat' or 'rodent' for sure though.
After Splinter takes over the Foot Clan, Leo stays with him for a bit, but eventually splits off and rejoins his brothers. It's more of an amicable split and Leo never loses his temper and calls Splinter a rat.
What issue does he leave in?
Just read the comics yourself, at this point. What are you hoping for us to find for you?
IDW Splinter is a shit father. He goes against his own principle and teaching. Why does he have to be Foot leader? He should give this to Karai and told her to get the frick out of New York.
2012 Splinter is haunted by his past too, but he still tells his sons they must kill if necessary because they're ninjas, even Rise Splinter will trained his sons to be more stronger to protect themselves and their families.
you're wasting your time. threse dicklet /misc/tards haven't read the idw run they just come here and run their mouths online because no one irl wants to talk to them lol
I'm starting to think you're right.
>What are you hoping for us to find for you?
...the issue I'm looking for? What a weird question.
>...the issue I'm looking for? What a weird question.
No, you're fixated on this one issue that I'm not even certain exists. Leo leaves the Foot clan and all 4 brothers abandon Splinter on issue 64. He doesn't call him a rat. I don't think it ever happens.
>I'm not even certain exists
lol nta but did you read the comics or not? if you read them then you should know if it exists or not. but you didn't, did you? no, right? you're trying to act like you did when you obviously didn't. frick off back to /pokl/ casual shitstain
There's scenes where Splinter is called a Rat and scenes where Leo and Splinter argue, but not both at the same time. Have you read the comics? Maybe you should instead of b***hing when you aren't given the spoon feeding you demand.
i read the comics dipshit. you didn't. kys
you're a casual shitstain too i'm not trying to help you. i know exactly what issue you're talking about but frick if i'm going to spoonfeed a normie. go die on facebook where you belong
>trying to gatekeep ninja turtle comics
Wow.
Ok, so what issue is is then since you're the big TMNT expert?
Check the annuals.
You may be remembering the Rat King introduction.
Next closest scene is in #81 where Leo and Splinter sense the Rat king. They aren't even in the same room.