https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/12/04/marvel-comics-executive-tom-brevoort-denies-industry-is-dying-instead-argues-what-is-likely-happening-is-that-the-market-is-changing/
Do you think Brevoort has a point when he says that diversity the answer to the current crisis in comics?
>boundingintocomics
>not posting the relevant text into the OP
no thanks
Tom Brevoort says that the currently desloate landscape of the modern comic book industry is not a result of its “dying”, but rather the fact that “the market is changing”.
Brevoort began his response with the assertion, “forget about comic books, retailing of any sort is an extremely difficult vocation in 2023, following on the heels of a global pandemic and lockdown that disrupted regular buying patterns.”
“Everybody wants to move on and pretend that nothing happened, that everything is back to normal, but it isn’t—the time that will take is a lot longer, if it ever happens,” argued the long-time Marvel Comics staffer. “By this same note, I can recall similar conversations as this one taking place all the way back to my entry into the business in 1989. No doubt, they were going on before that, particularly in the 1970s and the 1950s, and so on and so on.”
“For whatever reason,” he then declared, “the comic book field has a stronger pull towards its own mortality than other areas. We somehow delight in predicting the demise of the very thing that we enjoy so much. Maybe that reveals a poor sense of self-worth or something, but also, in any endeavor, if you bet in favor of failure you’re going to be right sooner or later. Nothing lasts forever, entropy wins.”
Brevoort continued, “Still, those folks who were predicting the demise of the field ten or twenty or thirty years ago would no doubt be shocked to learn that it is still here. The diversity of material new and old that is readily available today is astounding, and shows no genuine sign of abating. What is likely happening is that the market is changing. And change is almost always scary.”
>continued
“But it doesn’t have to be the end, it just means that some things are going to be different now, and it falls to us to adjust to those changes,” he then wound down his thoughts. “People hoping that the comic book industry will somehow revert to being the way it was when they were kids are definitely in for disappointment, but I feel confident in saying that the medium will survive. It continues to grow in all sorts of interesting directions. But the days of a spinner rack in every Mom and Pop Candy Store are likely gone forever—mostly because that type of store no longer exists.”
Ultimately, Brevoort concluded, “This all comes back to a slogan that I’ve been threatening to put onto a T-Shirt for many years now, but have never actually bothered to do: COMICS: DYING SINCE 1935.“
>But the days of a spinner rack in every Mom and Pop Candy Store are likely gone forever—mostly because that type of store no longer exists.”
This is true though. Ever since about 2010 I haven't actually seen comics outside of a non comic book specific store or trades in a bookstore. They're no longer in news stands at the train station or in convenience stores and they haven't been in ages.
If we're being honest capeshit should've pushed digital like 20 years before they did.
Where's the fricking change then. Market has changed, yes, absolutely, and it's not just that manga or pandemic brought these changes upon, manga merely met the expectations of changed market, people had fricking means and time to read comics (digitally) during pandemic, it's just that manga is kicking comic book industry's ass because comics are failing to adapt to competition and changes. They are doing NOTHING about it and just watch their sales dwindle, and now that the capeshit fatigue basically has settled in, they don't even have an opportunity to ride that wave, the wave they never even rode successfully, Marlel kept declining while Marvel's characters were at their most popular in the fricking world and let manga take over the market.
>Marlel kept declining while Marvel's characters were at their most popular in the fricking world and let manga take over the market.
Live-action She-Hulk should have been a shining beacon for every teenage boy and coomer out there, but they decided to make her grumpy and mean instead of sexy and fun.
Oh Jesus, they are stopping producing physical comics and going only for digital to save on production and distribution costs.
>Oh Jesus, they are stopping producing physical comics and going only for digital to save on production and distribution costs.
You do realize that Marvel still charges $5 for digital copies, right? DC does it too.
the pricing might change if the other costs are removed. nowadays it's priced $5 because people otherwise wouldn't be buying physicial comics at all
It's not priced at $5 because of costs. It's priced at $5 because people buy it for $5. If they can cut costs they'll pocket the money. Just like any other business.
>It's priced at $5 because people buy it for $5.
Enough people?
>It's priced at $5 because people buy it for $5.
Not any longer they don't lmao
>the pricing might change if the other costs are removed.
homie they're paying current creatives the same page rates as 1975. You think cheaping out and going digital is going to LOWER prices? Frick no. They'll squeeze this industry dry any chance they can. They'll never increase wages, they'll never pay health insurance, they'll drop physical and still raise prices just you fricking watch.
Grim
going digital to save on costs doesn't mean lowering the prices, just keeping more of the customers' money since all you have to pay is for servers and such
Gaymers pay 70 bucks for an all digital product they don't own, how bad will all digital comics get?
Completely ridiculous when you can get a Jump+ subscription for even less, even more ridiculous when you can pirate any issue of anything for free with a basic google search.
Man Moving into Hospice: "I'm not dying. My location is changing."
man that's a lot of PR/Politician speak holy hell
So mobile compatible Webtoon/Tapas style digital comics then?
I would. Print a magazine that has latest chapters of several running comics and it would be worth it. offer the comics to be mail ordered or purchased online. it'd at least be an interesting addition next to the "HOW TO LOSE WEIGHT" and "CELEBRITY IS FAMOUS AND YOU'RE NOT" magazines that all end up in the trash anyway.
>I would. Print a magazine that has latest chapters of several running comics and it would be worth it
this is what japan does
Brevoort is objectively correct here. Collectibles, which is what comics are, are always the first thing cut when people are tightening their budgets, especially when you no longer want to put shit on credit because interest rates are now higher than they have been in the last decade. The market is globally contracting in every sector, comics are feeling it the first and hardest because they're an expensive collectible hobby that are luxury.
Comics are also feeling it the first and hardest because they're mostly not worth it right now.
Any one who treats comic books as collectibles are objectively dumbasses. Marvel literally went bankrupt following this mentality in the 90s and breevort is coping the fact that he missed the boat to make his comics sell well during the height of the mc and now getting over taken by manga.
Objective dumbasses are important customers. The whole adult collectibles market is designed around them.
But the key is to not have dumbasses run your company and unironically believe this, Manga industry does more with less with a lower level of entry for both readers and creators. You wouldn't need to release overpriced omnibuses that don't even crack the top 100 in sales if you new this.
https://www.comicsbeat.com/bookscan-2022-what-was-the-best-selling-superhero-graphic-novel/
>Collectibles, which is what comics are
No. No, they aren't.
>We somehow delight in predicting the demise of the very thing that we enjoy so much. Maybe that reveals a poor sense of self-worth or something
"Want our company to fail? Well, you clearly just hate yourself!"
>its not dying... um.. t-The p-Pandemic! YES! Its the pandemics fault that sales are down for ONLY comics and not manga... ooooo that mean disease!!!
He just doesn't wanna say what's really happening. The current landscape is way different. Shops have been slowly dying out for a decade. American comics are at an all-time low as far as sales and interest goes, and that's in spite of capeshit films being as big as they were. They're getting creamed by Japanese comics. It's nuts.
A lot of the problems are fixable. Take a break from big events. Ease up on the hiring of activists over writers. Go back to appealing to long-time comic fans instead of weird zoomers. Make comics for an actual audience instead of twitter clicks. Maybe get some editors who give a shit.
Marvel, DC, IDW, etc. Pretty much everyone of these companies could do with a Jim Shooter-esque dude coming in and cleaning house. Just get some back to basics fricking comics.
They'd only lose harder.
>Take a break from big events.
So intentionally tank sales? Great idea!
>Ease up on the hiring of activists over writers.
LMAO of course you think it’s “activism” when writers don’t adhere to your political views
>Go back to appealing to long-time comic fans instead of weird zoomers.
They do this all the time. Remember Rebirth that killed DC’s trade sales?
>Make comics for an actual audience instead of twitter clicks.
>Maybe get some editors who give a shit.
So basically lots of whining from idpol butthurt and completely lack of understanding what drives sales. I love how imbeciles like this always think they have the magic fix and it’s nothing but bollocks motivated by butthurt that there’s more minorities and shit in comics.
What drives sales -> Speculators & first appearances.
This isn't the 80s/90s anymore
First appearances don't move shit, and the speculator after-market is non-existent today
>First appearances don't move shit, and the speculator after-market is non-existent today
You didn't pay attention to shit, that was how Spider-Boy's first appearance inexplicably got high sales immediately the week it was released
If the speculator after-market is non-existent there wouldn't be this fricking incentive variant shit and excessive hype of first appearances
Do you have some spare room I too would like to live in this fantasy world you’re in
You're welcome to join.
Trust me, an outright divorce from western comics will do your soul good
>So intentionally tank sales? Great idea!
Big crossover events are good for selling themselves but they're poisonous to ongoings because they derail any attempts at building a consistent narrative. This is especially apparent with newer characters like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan, where any time it looks like they might get villains of their own or some major plot development, they get dragged into Ultimate Civil War, Civil War 2, Inhumans vs X-men, Children's Crusade, etc.
Then they go back to their ongoing and have to start over almost from scratch again.
>but they're poisonous to ongoings because they derail any attempts at building a consistent narrative.
Bull-fricking-shit. You’re blaming crossovers for what is actually a side-effect of writing for trade model and writers only sticking around for couple of arcs.
I cannot imagine ever paying for a physical book when I happen to be in possession of a device giving me access to 99.9% of the books ever written for free.
Tom is right. comics as an industry isn't dying. Big two superhero comics are becoming far less dominant and for people who only read those they ACT like that is the same thing as the industry dying, but it isn't.
DC and Marvel could go out of comic publishing business tommorrow and webtoons and Scholastic alone would hold up the market.
>webtoons and Scholastic alone would hold up the market.
Manga is hard carrying comic sales in the west.
Yamato still calls herself a man and identifies as a man. By all definitions and logic of the globohomosexual troon commisars, that means she's a man. Also, Kiku is a cross dressing male troon who identifies as a woman-both come from the same arc. Oda loves pushing troons.
Scholastic sells more than Manga .
Anon, you may want to sit down for this.
OH NO NO NO NO NO
Wtf does Hachette publish? Never heard of them
They own Yen Press, another manga (and manhwa) publisher.
>IDW #14
Damn, all those under them should be ashamed... and that's where most of the manga is.
Anon, there are only 6 manga publishers on that list and 5 of them are in the top 10.
Most of the manga is published by Viz and Kodansha dumbdumb
>By all definitions and logic of the globohomosexual troon commisars, that means she's a man.
>They literally shat themselves seething over this picture to doubling down out of spite.
>They also get pissy when we get a face full of Yamato's massive boobs in the spa scene.
I rode in the fate circuit, If you think her calling herself a man is gonna change me calling her a she, you got another thing coming.
She identifies as Oden, btw.
You're as delusional as that homosexual is.
>in 2023, following on the heels of a global pandemic and lockdown
homie, THAT SHIT WAS 3 YEARS AGO LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
SHIT AIN'T EVEN A THING ANYMORE LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW DELUSIONAL CAN YOU GET??????????
People have been saying comics are dying because they've been in a long, drawn out death spiral. Prices keep going up while unit sales fall. Companies keep coming up with gimmicks to get temporary sales boosts but slowly burn out the fans.
Comics won't die because they're propaganda/marketing tools. You're not making money off the comic, you're making money when the normies see something else after the comic gets their attention.
>when the normies see something else after the comic gets their attention.
No one is reading them. It's a waste of time.
>you're making money
hard to see tha. to me, looks like you're saying the Russian animated machine will never stop it's glorious production march when the USSR was falling
>Sorry op, I dont want to give ad revenue to the only legitimate comic news site because it doesnt suck the ass of every homosexual comic pro who lumps dogman in with comics to make it look like its not getting raped AS MUCH by manga as it is.
You are part of the problem with this industry, and the sooner your leave or wake the frick up, the faster it will regrow.
oof, top tier cringe
>oof, top tier truth
fix'd
Shill
lmao, this cringe shit
>"legitimate" comic news site
Sorry that people noticed that your clickbait opinion blog site sucks.
At least he actually posted the link unlike most Bouding Into homosexuals who screencap the headline but leave out anything that could identify it as a BIC story.
Massive cope. Can't wait for dogshit woke writers (cultural parasites) are away from marvel and DC.
I thought diversity WAS the current crisis in comics
Oh, because Cinemaphile told you that?
No cause sales charts told me that.
Nah, cause the diversity hires told me.
politicization is and always has been the problem
>t. Triggered chud crying that he has to see handful of diverse characters in his comics now
yes, correct. the majority of comic fans are chuds
Oink Oink Oink
>oink oink
Oink again cancel piggy. It's funny.
Hillary lost, chuddie.
>t. triggered trancel crying because no one wants to read comics with pozzed characters
Are the mean trans people in the room with you right now, buddy?
>oink oink
Okay, so when are we getting paid, Tom?
>mom and pop stores aren’t a thing anymore
This fat shithead pretending that comics weren’t sold at every grocery store and pharmacy and convenience store, which do still exist.
No one is going to buy a comic for $5 at the grocery store.
Charge less
and write better
and draw better
I would unironically do this.
An 80 page or 100 page giant sure, but 20 pages? Get out of here.
Totally something like one or two a month.
I live in Sweden and there aren't really any comic shops here, and the only thing that's available regularly are like Donald Duck, the Phantom and Modesty Blaise comics. Something like a decade ago they still translated stuff like Spider-Man etc to swedish but stopped which I thought was a real bummer.
this is a fat out of touch man doing his best to justify keeping his paycheck for a few more years.
Print black and white. Make it not woke. Tell fun stories that appeal to kids. super sons could have been a massive hit for DC if they didn't screw it all up and packaged it like manga and marketed it better. Marvel should go all in with a normal non-woke spidey manga aimed at kids. Or do a my hero mutantdamia style knockoff book with Muties in a school setting
>super sons could have been a massive
For pedos, maybe. Not kids.
>For pedos, maybe. Not kids.
Dunno why you think kids wouldn't like Son of Supes and Damian teaming up and going on low stakes adventures. They need to copy the my hero academia formula and reskin it with DC. Yes I think MHA sucks and it doesn't do well in Japan, but it's the one manga that appeals to both boomer and gen x boomer Americans and kids, it's a formula that works. X-men stories focused on Xavier's school for gifted muties was basically the MHA formula before it went woke and moronic.
>Dunno why you think kids wouldn't like Son of Supes and Damian teaming up and going on low stakes adventures.
Because kids want to be Batman and Superman, not shitty copies.
>Because kids want to be Batman and Superman, not shitty copies.
Kids in America and adult boomers both love gay Deku and gay Naruto going on adventures with their gay buddies Sasuke-kun and Kachaan.
Super Sons characters drawn in appealing art style with manga style storytelling would do well in the American market.
Kids think Batman and Superman are lame because DC has spent their whole generation telling lame Tom King style stories in the comics and lame Scott Snyder grimdark versions of the characters in the movies and shows.
>with manga style storytelling
Proving my point that it's for boomer pedos.
>Kids think Superman and Batman are totally lame but they would totally want cheap discount kid versions of them!
>Discount
More like the deluxe versions
That'll sell our comics!
Because it's lame shit for boomers.
>low stakes adventures
Oh yeah, kids love filler.
Where did modern creators get this idea that kids love kid characters?
Well into the 2000s marketing research showed that any kid old enough to read responded better to older characters who they could project onto for a sense of maturity. That's why shit like Beyblades and Nerf guns had commercials where the people playing with the toys were often older kids or young adults and that's why the token kid character in a lot of media got phased out in favor of a cute mascot, if anything.
Anything with actual child heroes was seen as stuff for very young children and toddlers.
>modern creators
homie, this is why Robin exists, but even still, kids wanted to be Batman, not Robin.
The bigger problem is that so much capeshit is "mature" nowadays when kids really just want to see Superman punch a big robot, not be taught important lessons about toxic fandom and the metaverse or some shit.
And people think Robin sucks unless he’s a teen and with the Titans.
>This fat shithead pretending that comics weren’t sold at every grocery store and pharmacy and convenience store,
Ask people who were actually around when that was a thing, they were sold there but rarely with consistency. You'd see an issue then the next one they got was 2 or 3 issues later, or they'd drop one title for another. And magazine stands sure aren't healthier 30 years later.
Digital is the future.
The point of comics sold in convenience stores was to expose kids to them, not to be a reliable place to buy them every week. Western comics' biggest problem, by far, is that the publishers just don't have a good way to get new people into comics. The only way to read comics is to intentionally seek them out after you've decided you want to get into comics.
I think the most baffling part about western comics is that they didn't try harder to capitalize on the popularity of comic book movies in the 10s. Like, there should have been collected editions of Infinity Saga on Walmart shelves next to the Avengers Endgame merchandise.
In the era of smart phones it has never been easier to buy a comic. It isn’t an issue of access, it’s the deeply rooted culture and dismissive mentality that western comics “suck” because it’s “kiddy shit”. Anime is currently cool because zeitgeist has made it cool because it’s exotic and different and lol “more mature”.
>and lol “more mature”.
Laugh all you want, teens want that kind of stuff.
Except it isn’t more mature when you read shit made for young teens.
It's still more mature than pre pubescent stuff.
I mean, when you're a young teen and going through your "I wanna be more grown up" phase, chances are if you're the kind of kid who gives a frick about reading to begin with, you're likely to gravitate towards a manga as opposed to a comic, I know that's how it was when I was a tween, especially since I'm from one of those deep blue states so my middle school library was full of all sorts of manga that definitely weren't appropriate for kids sitting right alongside Captain Underpants and Diary of a Wimpy Kid on the shelves.
Young teens make a huge portion of the manga audience. A lot of the top selling manga don't sell because they're well written but because they're exciting to that audience. Action and romcom series, the kind of stuff American comics suck at.
Doesn’t make it any more mature. It’s once again about perception vs reality.
>open american rag
>develop a migraine
Capes haven't really had a reputation for being for kids since the early 00s.
That's what they were pushing for, sure. One reason comics became hot garbage.
But for the average normie? Nah, it's kiddie stuff.
I didn't notice any of that feeling. Cape movies sold huge numbers. Quesada promoted Civil War and Secret Invasion on Colbert.
>Quesada promoted Civil War and Secret Invasion on Colbert.
That's right, quesada trying to push as stuff for grown ups with SERIOUS POLITICAL THEMES and all.
This
Naruto was the main character in his book, not a kiddy version. A better comparison would be Boruto, I wonder how well that does in comparison.
>Naruto was the main character in his book, not a kiddy version.
Did you ever read Naruto? Part one he's a little kid.
Basically, yes. They will relate to the kids version whose destiny is to exceed the legacy of their lame boomer parents.
One manga series outsold Marvel and DC combined in 2021. It's time to stop living in the past with these boomer style storytelling with walls of text you find in your average DC and Marvel comics. Manga storytelling is superior, simple as. Marvel and DC need to adapt or prepare to vanish as publishing companies.
Manga storytelling, much like manga art, is not actually a thing. Stay losing.
Manga storytelling is very much a thing, and you clearly don't understand the art of comics if you believe that. Cope harder, boomer.
>Stay losing.
The manga comics I love are flourishing. I'm winning
Yes, I know you homosexuals like to pretend the dirty japonese are all backwards and behind but reality is that manga has a wide range or art styles and storytelling and capeshit is all the same shit.
>manga has a wide range or art styles and storytelling and capeshit is all the same shit.
No idiot. Panel to panel storytelling in manga is clearly different than the shitty storytelling in the west. It is much more cinematic. The fight scenes are a major example, lasting many pages longer than your average capeshit fight, and also being better choreographed. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Now that you mention it, I can't think of a single capeshit fight that can be turned into a gif form and I'd actually really like to see one.
Because the west has never put that much emphasis on martial arts and fight scenes like Asia did and doesn't have the long history of martial arts shit the same way. That's true of all media and not just comics.
asian martial arts is a fricking meme made by the west. 5'2" midgets cant fight and never could. its a joke. theres no martial art movies for them. WE have martial arts movies. its like making random mysticism and other nonsense for random races. we took some minor aspect and made them into memes.
What are you talking about? That's like most of what they make is martial arts movies and books and shit. I'm not saying a tiny asian man can beat a jacked white boy, I 'm saying they spend a lot more time making shit about fighting. Like all the most famous Asian stars are martial arts guys who did like 500 kung fu movies in China before making shittier versions in America.
Extreme westoid cope
Disagree. There are absolutely US based martial arts in the culture that they COULD have made shit based on. Rocky. Raging Bull. Tyson. Ali. The UFC.
Hell. I can't even think of a UFC type fighter in capeshit off the top of my head.
I haven't kept up with one piece. I'm going to believe you're for real and not just shitposting.
Ah, but Japan isn't a signatory to the global treaty there. And besides, self ID matters. I think Yamato would slap the shit out of anyone who called her a transexual.
>I'm going to believe you're for real and not just shitposting.
It's all 100% real. Just Google the character Ivankov and read their wiki article for proof
>I think Yamato would slap the shit out of anyone who called her a transexual.
Yamato calls herself a man and the Son of Oden, she would be happy and grateful if someone referred to her as a man. She's also a furry who transforms in to a wolf, and her hair is colored like the transgender flag
HIS hair
>HER hair
ttfy
Careful distinction here. Japanese works on different sets of honorifics and pronouns depending on the relative status level, age, familiarity, and gender of the people.
Calling herself a man is absolutely NOT the same as being trans. And I think if you called her a man, she'd be fine, but if you called her trans, she'd beat the crap out of you.
>There's a whole generation of artists that want to bring better choreographed battles into cape books
>I'm sorry your portfolio isn't what we're looking for right now
EVERY SINGLE TIME
It's because of decompressed storytelling. There are artists who can draw it, but the writers are obsessed with wanking out endless word balloons and editors won't give capeshit fights more than a few pages.
Editors won't let it happen. In manga you can get 100+ page fight scenes drawn cinematically that really immerse you in the battle, with capeshit comics they are writing for the trades, and also egotistical writers will not allow for pages of comics to exist where the only words are sound effects.
The seperate writer/ seperate artist system in capeshit comics really fricks them. Writer/artists in manga are more willing to produce pages without any text at all on them, and the books are better for it.
I can't think of anything either, but some contenders might be the more martial arts minded people, and the more manga related. Frank miller. The badger. Quietely's We3? Luther strode.
You completely missed the point. Nobody is going to search up a comic and buy it online unless they already know they want the comic. And nobody's going to research comics unless they're already into comics or have resolved to get into comics.
Having comics at convenience stores lead to impulse buys from people, especially kids, who don't normally read comics. And that's how new comic readers were born.
The only place people impulse buy fiction is at airports and that’s because they’re stuck at a plane for several hours. Kids are bored, they watch YouTube or Twitch.
Kids ask their parents for random shit that looks cool. Sometimes the parents give in.
The zeitgeist doesn't think comics are for kids, they think comics are for antisocial malcontent nerds. The "Comic Book Guy" stereotype.
>Do you think Brevoort has a point when he says that diversity the answer to the current crisis in comics?
Funny how this Diversity Crisis does exist for manga...
The manga market is fundamentally different but when has facts ever gotten in the way of ignorant idiots making stupid statements.
Hey now, all we need is 1/3 of the US population living within a single major metropolitan area and spending up to two hours a day on mass transit and we can start having the same underpinnings as the Japanese market.
tHe MarKet iS aLieN
wrong. they just actually make cool and valuable work instead of infantile israelite heroes in spandex or israelite zio propaganda.
shit, the manga market is the American market, considering how much they sell here.
Hey, fricking moron, if people actually wanted genre diversity in American comics why aren’t non-cape books regularly outselling the big two regularly? They exist, they do offer non-superhero options regularly, plenty of them are cool, yet they don’t sell. The problem is in the fricking consumer who whines about wanting something different and then never pays for it to make it sustainable.
>But muh manga!
Manga is just translations of already published material from Japan. They cover all their production costs in Japan, and only cherrypick and translate a small fraction of their entire output. How is it that you people can’t ever get this factoid inserted into your thick skulls? It’s nonsensical to draw direct parallels, all you’re doing is being a whiny little c**t without any understanding of how anything works and being petulant b***h about it when people point the numerous ways you are being incredibly stupid.
>They exist, they do offer non-superhero options regularly, plenty of them are cool, yet they don’t sell
Maybe they just have a shit publicity ? People barely know of any comics that arent DC or Marvel.
There’s no more rising tide.
Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarlane sold metric tons of small press indie books by getting kids involved in the hobby, and into comic shops, to begin with.
And tons of those comics are trash
That’s not even remotely the point, but okay
Plenty of people here like to pretend it’s entirely a quality issue when it’s actually nothing but about fads. Manga is currently popular because it’s a mainstream fad that has built up after the momentary crash that took place with the more niche fad of the Tokyopop era, combined with the fact an entire generation of comic fans just want nostalgia pandering rather then new ideas from US comics. Which is why so many 80s/90s video game, cartoon, etc. shit keeps getting relaunched and people run to buy it in hopes of reliving their childhood
>passive-aggression
>Hey, fricking moron, if people actually wanted genre diversity in American comics why aren’t non-cape books regularly outselling the big two regularly? They exist, they do offer non-superhero options regularly, plenty of them are cool, yet they don’t sell. The problem is in the fricking consumer who whines about wanting something different and then never pays for it to make it sustainable.
The publishing, distribution, and sales methods all favor big two capeshit. Every comic book store I've ever been to devoted the majority of it's comic book shelf space to big two books.
Then Image, IDW, Boom, everyone not big two has to share a single little corner.
The Japanese auto market was a fundamentally different market. Then it came to America and beat the shit out of our moronic market.
>"the market is changing, gotta adjust to the times bro"
>still selling 20 page floppies for 5 bucks in [CURRENT YEAR]
Frick off Tom
>The market is changing
TO WHAT, TOM?!
Webtoons
Don't you guys get tired of ranting about the same shit?
no
Not when it continues to be a problem.
>Man driving company off bridge claims everything is fine
Okay.
"Let's change our product so that it doesn't appeal to our audience anymore."
>Flops
>"I-It's the market that is changing! And there's fatique too!"
You punchable wienerlicker.
What are today's most profitable comics? Webcomics on patreon? Schoolastic's mafia deals? relatable strips algorithm vampires?
Yeah Tom, you just gotta piss off readers some more, that'll do
Oh wait, no readers?
Diversity is the answer. It's just not the diversity he's pushing, and it doesn't work the way he thinks it does.
Diversity is great at identifying and filling niches. But it also involves competition, specialization, and extinction. American comics right now are publishing material that does not respect the conditions of the market. It doesn't serve its niche, It's being outcompeted by manga, and comic shops are losing to bookstores and online retailers.
Diversity is still beholden to meritocracy, the survival of fittest. The culture of meritocracy at Marvel and DC is broken. They are not fit. It's time for comic retailers to diversify themselves away from comics.
>It's time for comic retailers to diversify themselves away from comics.
You seriously think they haven’t done that already? How adorable.
There are still stores closing. Clearly they've not diversified away from comics enough.
Frankly, they should completely divest. Brevoort's answer makes it clear they will not and cannot change their current course. They will not acknowledge the problem. Every dollar you send them for a book that is good is used to subsidize two books that are bad. Death is assured.
>Diversity is the answer. It's just not the diversity he's pushing,
I honestly think he was talking about diversity of genres rather than "we added blacks and gays" and this board is just taking the statement as the "bad" kind of diversity because it's a link from bounding and culture wars is all we're capable of.
>I honestly think he was talking about diversity of genres
Then he's being obtuse, because he was responding to a retailer who was talking specifically about diversity in the other sense. That's the problem, and Brevoort is playing word games to avoid acknowledging it and dismiss someone with a genuine concern.
He's feigning ignorance, or is just ignorant. Nether is something you want in one of the top people at a company.
Forgive me for not giving a shit if someone plays word games with a homosexual fishing for lame gotchas to blame Black folk for the fact that stagnant IPs and scummy business practices have rightfully been told to frick off.
Then don't bother defending Brevoort. What are you even doing here?
Same thing I always do in these crying homosexual fests. Point out that the industry "dying" is due to a dozen different factors and most people don't care about your little war with the trannies on twitter.
I argue comics are already dead and is nothing but a walking corpse. There's no multiple factors except three .
>$5 for 20 page shlock every month
>Title bloat for characters you know aren't going anywhere
and here's the most important one
>THE STORIES ARE BAD
No ones is crying anon just pointing out the obvious.
I agree with your points, with the caveat that points 2 and 3 are actually the same point.
Capeshit is a fundamentally stale genre. There is no way to make a good story about (for example) Batman or Spider-man anymore. Everything that could've been said has already been said, and everyone, from the writers to the editors and yes, even the audience, knows damn well that anything that happens is just going to get undone in a year or two anyway.
>most people don't care about your little war with the trannies on twitter.
That's more than those who buy your comics Brevoort.
It's probably a migrant butthurt that his ideology isn't being received.
>Sir, no one is buying the seventh reboot of our teen sidekick spin-off we keep forcing for some reason.
>IT'S OKAY THE MARKET IS CHANGING
???
Well yeah. No matter how much chucklefricks like you whine about relaunches they do sell, while you refuse to support new IPs and titles that you pretend to want.
Yeah for like one book.
If they are working so well that what is even the dilemma? Just make every five Miss Marvel comics a #1 and there's so reason to worry about a changing markwt, right?
If those things sold, brick and mortar wouldn't be in trouble. God knows there's plenty of them.
Garbage post, really weak to try to make this guy the face of your culture war opposition. He's one of the last old school sort of comics men, who live and breathe the history. He probably cares more about delivering a good, reverent story than almost anyone else in the business. Not to say there hasn't been missteps, but if you read his newsletter it's actually really insightful re: the business, and is time better spent than with "boundingintocomics" i.e. "GET ANGRY WITH ME FELLOW GROYPERS" to which you reply "O-OK!"
terrible bait
Not bait, again there's been plenty of missteps and bad decisions over 40 years or whatever, that's a discussion unto itself. But it's corny and casual for rabble rousing culture warring board tourists to single him out and position him in this way. Easy engagement, low IQ.
No one is focusing on the man himself, they are focusing on his out of touch sentiment that the industry has had for a while.
>He's one of the last old school sort of comics men, who live and breathe the history.
The only thing fossils are good for is providing fuel. He can't even do that for the industry, so what purpose does he actually serve?
Him being from the old guard is why he's so out of touch. Saying the market is changing doesn't offer any insight if you have no idea how to adapt to that change correctly.
Diversity has nothing to do with it. Webtoons and Isekai are way bigger than comics now and like 90% of those are the same wish fulfillment fantasy with a different coat of paint.
>Him being from the old guard is why he's so out of touch.
Lmao compare this loser to Jim Shooter, let's see which one would get shit done.
>Saying the market is changing doesn't offer any insight if you have no idea how to adapt to that change correctly.
But his comment is entirely about debunking the notion that “comics are totally dying in the next two years I swear!” as well as saying that the absolutely fricking laughable idea of “wot if we just sold dem comics at spinner racks again like in the 1950s!” that Cinemaphile frequently suggests as a fix won’t and can’t happen.
Obviously he can’t predict accurately where comics will eventually stand at this point since the change is slow and ongoing, nor can he say what the best approach to addressing it will be. Those only come later after the transitional phase is finished.
>But his comment is entirely about debunking the notion that “comics are totally dying in the next two years I swear!”
Huh? Why are you acting like people are still waiting for confirmation of shit circling the drain? Comic shops have been dropping like flies. What signifier are you waiting for?
Which is a trend that has to do with tons of shops going out of business because they can’t compete with Amazon. Use your brain for once. Are you seriously so dense you think those LCS would stay in business if they just sold manga? Brick and mortal shops are going bankrupt everywhere these days because a lot of them were able to regain customers after the pandemic made people switch to online shopping.
>Brick and mortal
>mortal
Very good anon, you spotted a typo. You’ll become a proofreader in no time with this level of accuracy!
Thanks, the Big Two are in sore need of those. But I guess instead of hiring them, they'll say "things are changing, we just need to sit until they settle in by themselves".
Brevoort is right there to prove the mortality of those stores.
>Are you seriously so dense you think those LCS would stay in business if they just sold manga?
That's literally how my LCS survived. Owner really doesn't care for manga, but adding a manga section apparently saved the store after COVID.
>He didn’t previously have any manga
So he’s a bad businessman who just lucked out.
Correct, but my point was that manga really does seem to make a difference for brick and mortar when that poster was saying it can't.
I kinda doubt that many comic shops refuse to carry manga to a degree that it is literally the only reason they’re now failing, instead of the primary reasons being more about shopping behaviour fundamentally switching over to online retail in the span of couple of years
You'd be shocked. A lot of LCS literally don't carry manga at all. Many have like one shelf of random outdated shounen volumes.
Or adapted.
>So he’s a bad businessman who just lucked out.
Most comic book store owners are bad businessmen. The Simpsons character is not as much a parody as this board would like to believe.
That just means the industry really is dying. And that was your whole argument in the first place, that he was debunking the notion of the industry dying.
>Media publishing is dying y’all
This is exactly the type of stupid shit Brevoort is talking about. You’re like a dumb buttholes from the early 80s swearing comics were dead when they started transitioning to the direct market where you sold shit from a local comic book shops instead of newsstands
>Comic shops are dying
>>NUH Uh
>Yes, they literally are
>>OKAY FINE BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER
>You’re like a dumb buttholes from the early 80s swearing comics were dead when they started transitioning to the direct market where you sold shit from a local comic book shops instead of newsstands
This. So much this. Shout this over and over. Shout this from the rooftops. Let every direct retailer know right now that they are not part of comics' future. Let them know it's their own damn fault should they fail due to "changing economics." Let them know they're stupid for continuing to support Marvel and DC in any way.
Get his ass. You should tag Zack and Eric in this post kek.
You sound like of those morons who refused to acknowledge most magazines dying and cling to niche marketing pamphlets, tabloids for boomers and e-zines with less than 1k readers as evidence that they didn't croak.
How were they wrong?
>Comics leaving mass market establishments
>Specialty stores dying
>"Bro just buy the digital versions" (we are here)
Just cause they saw the writing on the wall way ahead of time doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Also I have a real hard time believing the big two are really going to sell much going fully digital, considering how much they lay into cover variants and ways to get people to buy the same story multiple times. Which will just not be a thing for digital releases.
>considering how much they lay into cover variants and ways to get people to buy the same story multiple times
you ever heard of NFT?
Thank you for supporting my point.
That shit doesn't work.
That is because you’re a moron whose opinions come from a place of butthurt
I'm actually cool with the industry dying. I just don't get why people still deny it just because it didn't die over night.
They conflate death of the industry with death of the medium. As a medium, comics will never die. But an industry can certainly shrink to irrelevance, and commercial art can become folk art in short order.
By their standards, the horse and buggy industry is still alive because they technically still exist.
What that anon said makes sense to me. Comics are propped up by speculators and collectors who can be tricked into buying multiple copies of the same issue, over and over again. The put them in a bag/board, and barely care what’s behind the cover.
Expecting people to pay $5 for digital is bad, but what’s worse is that they’ll only be sell comics to actually read and enjoy them. The bulk of comics sales come from people who don’t do that. They’ll all be gone by the time there’s a transition to digital.
Which will force the industry to adapt to the change. No reason to run around screaming THE END IS NIGH
The adaptation is “making comics that are good” which I don’t think they can or even want to do.
>bro just buy the digital which is the same price as physical
FTFY
>y’all
If media publishing is dying y'all why is manga selling millions of books internationally?
Do people really think the "old guard" went anywhere?
I'm talking about the BTS talent, the bullpen, editors, those strange legendary autists of eras past that carried encyclopedic knowledge of their publisher and its canon in their heads. After him, after he's gone, then it's really the twitter brained identity politics millennials that step in.
>Muh twitter
And post ignored.
Again, you think those people just vanished and stopped working in the industry? Bob Harras is still alive and kicking. Joe Quesada's alive and kicking. Hell, Marv Wolfman is alive and mostly kicking. Even Jim Shooter did an interview recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyhF_i198eo
>Even Jim Shooter did an interview recently
Too bad he ain't working in the industry
Good for him.
>Technically they're actually still alive.
Oh hey I'm talking about them retaining positions of influence in the business, thanks though.
And Brevoort is one of them? LMAO.
Brevoort is in a position where his understanding of the landscape is far better than someone who last worked in that type of major publishing company’s editorial capacity like 30-40 years ago.
Sure shows, huh?
Except maybe like, you know, people in the picture I showed you about some well-known names still in the industry like Jim Lee, J. Scott Campbell, Joe Mad, Todd McFarlane... Not some moronic editor that's only known for complaining about writers since Wizard's days. Of course, there's the person you're trying to dogpile right now, Mark Millar.
This post is so funny dude, you're doing great.
You honestly think people in their 70s and 80s have better grasp of the print publishing industry in the digital age?
They’re better at making things people want to buy. Can’t get no worse.
Is it just me, or are the artists a fair bit more photogenic than the writers?
Joke faux-interview written by PAD in the 90s
>YOUNG LADY: Mr. Kingman, I just want to say that you’re a strikingly handsome individual.
>RANDY: Why, thank you. You’ll notice that most artists are lean and good-looking. This is as opposed to most “writers” who are shorter and usually overweight. I imagine this physical jealousy is part of what prompts so many writers to be envious of artists. The fact is that, in every way, artists are better than writers. They can’t stand that. They’re old news. Fading history.
>VIC: How would you account for this physical difference?
>RANDY: Gravity. Writers sit there in front of their typewriters and sag while writing their recycled plots. Artists are taut and lean, stretched out over their drawing boards. Physical demands of the job. That’s what does it.
I miss all of them except quesada.
Peter David's been having trouble, but he should really get more work done. One of the last few decents left.
He's always been a 6/10 writer on his best day. The industry needs fresh blood, not these same has beens like Peter David and Mark Waid.
Hm... nah.
And that's why the industry is dying.
Oh, really? It's not the shitty new blood, it's not ALL the moronic editorial decisions, it happens to be old school decent writers which you don't like? Cool.
I said new blood, not hacks from 15 years ago and not hacks from 40 years ago
>going out of my way
To post on Cinemaphile? lmao
>I said new blood, not hacks from 15 years ago and not hacks from 40 years ago
What, them too. Marvel and DC are reeking of "new blood", guess the shit they're getting done. Garbage.
>Marvel and DC are reeking of "new blood"
That's the point, idiot.
Waid's putting out some of the best books at DC right now just by doing late-silver age pastiche with good art. The fresh blood can't even meet that standard.
He's making trash. It's cute that you're satisfied with trash but it's still trash.
It sounds like you've outgrown capes.
It seems everyone else has as well.
Yet they keep whining how they want their juvenile kiddie capes to be just like in their childhood.
The only whining I'm seeing here is from cape artists complaining about their audience not existing. What a bunch of homosexuals.
Sad to see you haven't.
What are you even doing posting in a Marvel thread instead of moving on with your life?
I have moved on with my life. Why does me laughing at you people make you so mad? I'm only laughing because you'd rather go down with the ship than admit things aren't working out.
>I have moved on but here I am, going out of my way to voice my opinion about something I supposedly don’t care about
Me thinks the dipshit doth protest too much
>I have moved on with my life.
Reading and posting in this thread suggests you have not.
>I'm only laughing because you'd rather go down with the ship than admit things aren't working out.
I read comics I like. These days that means a handful of new ones, but mostly the massive library of comics I haven't read from the 60s-00s. Since I have nearly a half-century's worth of comics to fill up my time over the next who-knows-how-many-years, I'm not all that torn up about the big two's current mismanagement problems.
Nobody here is capable of admitting that the problem might be that they're trying to get blood from the 80+ year old stones of superheroes.
>Waid's putting out some of the best books at DC right now
They're mid at best. Waid has definitely lost his edge.
Waid was always a solid mediocre, he never wrote anything great.
His health has deteriorated to a point that his wife had to be given the ability to run his gofund me because he’s got so many health issues that he can’t handle his own medical finances without third party
I'm still amazed at how well Todd is doing. This motherfricker now has FOUR spawn books running, all of them over 20 issues. All of them good with no bullshit.
Meanwhile, Marvel and DC are busy rebooting NAMEBRAND IP at issue five.
>All of them good with no bullshit.
I only read Scorched but it honestly reads like an unfiltered stream of ideas and character pitches with no filter or direction and little thought put into tying everything together.
It's entertaining but it's a fricking fever dream. Maybe it's the only one like this since it's the "team up" book though.
>Maybe it's the only one like this
It's not.
Have a handy summary of things around #300.
>Spawn was about how supernatural elements cause the end of the world, how he dethroned God, but for all of the recent years it was basically about heaven and hell being stuck to man's laws (kinda) & having to still deal with traffic of influence, politicians and even money as opposed to "we can do whatever we please"
>what happens is that while the story is still stuck on that beat, Spawn tries to do a routine teleportation
>we cut to a future where mankind has been eradicated save for your odd survivor or two fighting GIANT ANGEL SENTINELS
>after Spawn tried his routine teleportation that failed we were stuck for an entire issue of this with a guy who literally looks like a US version of Devilman palling around with his gal pal
>Spawn's flubbed teleport finally ends and the first thing he does is decapitate the girl, if the design wasn't on the nose
>because, you see, his teleportation led him to the FAR FUTURE
>"why though"
>not even the story clarifies it
>but the good thing about this is that he then spends another entire issue fighting Not-Devilman
>who dies for no good reason when he teleports back into the present
>because you see NotDevilman's actually a devil who had fake memories put in his head to convince him he was a good guy
>the next masterstroke revelation in todd's plan is that all of this happened because a child murderer obsessed with ice cream Spawn killed back in his first year has become the Biblical Beast in the future so he somehow got Spawn's teleport to teleport him
>In the future
>So Spawn could fight a devil with fake memories of being a good guy
>So that when this guy died for no reason in a teleport
>Ice-cream man turned Biblical Beast comes back to the present
>So he can take over the world
>Which undermines the entire years-long motif of POLITICS IS WHAT MATTER, NOT SUPERNATURAL POWERS
what does that monster carry in it's pouches and capsules?
This shit is 100% written by AI and constantly forgets it's own story. Like sometimes plague Spawn is one guy but sometimes he's an infection, and characters sometimes get teased at the end of one issue then get written out by the end of the next. Every character's motives besides Redeemer and Reaper seems to be "none of your business" or "I'll tell you later, it's too much to explain", and there's no real fights or battles, just people one shotting each other like a chat GPT script.
>BRO THERE ARE FOUR SPAWN BOOKS
And nobody really cares. It’s the same shit as always.
>"Nobody cares" says guy who cares enough to complain
Never gets old. Todd keeps on winning.
Who is ever talking about Spawn? Nobody. It isn’t doing anything new
or improving the market.
>Improving the market
Yes thanks to the Spawn Universe books. That is more good product (i.e. sellable) for comic book stores. Spawn has its fans and having more quality books in comic book shops is a net positive for all parties involved...Unless you hate Spawn for whatever reason.
>Who is talking about Spawn
Nobody is talking about comics in general unless DC and/or Marvel are doing something stupid...Like having Nightcrawler be a futa buttbaby. That's not a Spawn problem, that's an industry problem. A comics journalism problem.
lol even back then Ennis looked like a miserable frick
>He probably cares more about delivering a good, reverent story than almost anyone else in the business.
Good intentions, hell, roads, yadda yadda.
Everyone cares. Villains care. He should start to care about actual results.
>it's actually really insightful
"The market is changing" is not insightful. It's just an observation that doesn't address the concerns brought up by retailers. Yes, it's changing, and that change involves the direct market dying. Is he going to do something about that? If not, directly say so right now. Let these retailers know Marvel is not their partner. Free them. Let everyone move on and be happy doing something else.
>He probably cares more about delivering a good, reverent story than almost anyone else in the business.
>Not bait
Weeeell then. Great fricking job he did in the Avengers line, right? Sure kept everything in character, some damn quality. Those writers from the ultimate line sure did a fricking favor to regular Marvel. I'm sure "decompression" isn't a factor why no one can be bothered with floppies anymore.
>Great fricking job he did in the Avengers line, right?
Yes, right. Is this a joke? The turnaround of the Avengers and thier success on page then screen is like, an epochal success story.
At the expense of all the permanent damage to the story to begin with. The success on screen had legit frickall to do with that mess in the comics and probably would have pushed them to the limelight anyway.
What turned the Avengers into a book that was a top-ten seller, or just outside the top ten? Star artists like Rob Liefeld and George Perez being on the book. Liefeld and his people had revitalized Avengers for the 90s before Brevoort was editor, and IIRC Perez may have been attached to the following relaunch before Brevoort was in place as editor, if so he didn't really have a lot to do with the book succeeding back then, while the later New Avengers relaunch was a Mark Millar idea that Quesada and Benis really went for, Brevoort doesn't get any credit for just happening to be the book's editor while other people decided how it was getting revamped.
Come on man. I'm embarrassed at even responding to this bc of how disingenuous it is.
What, you're going to pretend Heroes Reborn Avengers didn't sell? That Perez wasn't the main reason Heroes Return Avengers sold? You're going to pretend New Avengers was in any way Brevoort's idea?
I feel like everyone in this conversation is missing things.
Heroes Reborn Avengers DID sell. The final issue had around 100,000+ orders and still in the Top 10, and bear in mind this was long after Liefeld left the book and they gave it to Jim Lee's side for oversight. I think it still would've sold with Liefeld. Brevoort did not oversee this.
However, Brevoort was editor on Heroes Return Avengers with Busiek writing and Perez drawing. It was the start of Brevoort's long tenure of being editor on the Avengers line.
Financially the only two major hits of Brevoort's time on Avengers were the Busiek/Perez Avengers run (which had an uphill climb because sales on comics were declining across the board) and Bendis' run on Avengers. Hickman's run gets praise but the dropoff in sales was faster than Bendis' and Busiek/Perez's run.
Also keep in mind, Busiek/Perez Heroes Return Avengers was done at a time when the comics market overall was in decline, and the Avengers' only media outside of comics was that short-lived United They Stand show. The comic still managed to stay in the Top 10. Bendis' Avengers was done at a time when Bendis still had a big following and he put Spider-Man and Wolverine on the team, and the MCU wouldn't launch until a few years after his run. I also don't really see anything of Bendis' New Avengers in MCU other than having Hawkeye be Ronin during Endgame.
At the time the Avengers had films:
>Bendis was wrapping up his run
>AvX was the big event in 2012
>Remender did Uncanny Avengers
>Hickman was doing his run
>Waid was doing his run
>Aaron was doing his run
And I don't think they did as well as Busiek/Perez's run or Bendis' 00s run
You're mostly right about the books in 2012 not selling as well, but Uncanny Avengers #1 somehow sold 303,722, it's the best selling book with Avengers in the title, breaking a record previously held by #1 of Heroes Reborn Avengers with 276,734. It didn't sustain those sales from #2 onwards, probably retailers ordering in large numbers to get all those variants.
>Hickman's run gets praise but the dropoff in sales was fast
Glad to know readers weren't all that enthralled by that absolute bullshit.
I think it'd have been one thing if the sales drops happened when stores were closing down and there were no Avengers movies
Hickman's run happened not long after the first movie and concluded around the time of the second film, so I found that odd
The only thing I'll give him is that for some reason his event stories sell better than other people's event stories.
Breevort sucks, not because of any culture war reason but he's genuinely a moron editor.
>He's one of the last old school sort of comics men, who live and breathe the history.
Exactly. The Amanats and Antos's never gave a shit but he did and became a fricking quisling anyway.
derp. manga makes good content. it never needs africans injected, nor did anyone want it but judeans.
>the modern comic book industry is not a result of its “dying”, but rather the fact that “the market is changing”.
>“This all comes back to a slogan that I’ve been threatening to put onto a T-Shirt for many years now, but have never actually bothered to do: COMICS: DYING SINCE 1935.“
Which is it, Tom?
>Diversity
My Hero Academia has like three characters who aren't Japanese born in the main story and Marvel and DC WISH they had a book selling like that.
I still can't get over how All-Might, one of the most AMERICAN heroes of recent times isn't even a hafu but full-on Japanese.
It's crazy that the Japs can do patriotism for a country that isn't even theirs better than people from that country.
Yeah I assumed he was at least half American but the first movie which shows him visiting America in the past acts like he was completely foreign to that culture and just adapted well. And recent events in the manga imply that movie is canon.
>It's crazy that the Japs can do patriotism for a country that isn't even theirs better than people from that country.
It’s nothing but the ridiculous and frankly racist idea that every important character has to have Japanese blood in them. It’s outright dumb how they bend over backwards to say “no seriously this character whose name isn’t Japanese and is not even living in Japan is at least HALF GLORIOUS NIPPONESE so now you can care about them!”
>It’s nothing but the ridiculous and frankly racist idea that every important character has to have Japanese blood in them.
Which is based.
Keep those dirty foreigners on the backburner.
>it's racist that a japanese manga written by a japanese man for a japanese audience has majority japanese characters
kys
>Hey I’m writing this manga that’s largely about Europe and its history, political intrigue and archeology. But it just so happens this ex-SAS/archeologist/insurance consultant is half Japanese! It’s super vital to the plot and by that I mean he occasionally has to go to Japan to his Japanese goofy dad for comedy interludes and eat Japanese food
It’s absolutely laughable. Same way that Monster has to have a Japanese surgeon residing in Germany when it doesn’t really add anything inherently vital to the character or story.
>Same way that Monster has to have a Japanese surgeon residing in Germany when it doesn’t really add anything inherently vital to the character or story.
You didn't read it, frick off
Eh,cut him some slack. Maybe Dr Tenma there is just a fricking idiot.
>I am Japanese
>I eat with chopsticks
It was absolutely instrumental to the show’s very core.
>ame way that Monster has to have a Japanese surgeon residing in Germany when it doesn’t really add anything inherently vital to the character or story.
I am pretty sure Tenma being asian is used in the story.
But it isn’t vital to the story in a way where it makes sense that he has to be specifically be Japanese or the story doesn’t work. It would have been far simpler to just have him be a German surgeon without losing anything but Japan is obsessed with making their protagonists always of Japanese origins.
If he could be any nationality, why not japanese? I mean, do you b***h about all the main craig of the creek characters being american?
In isolation, it wouldn’t matter. But when it happens all the time it is ridiculous. A new foreign student? Oh they’re always half Japanese. We need someone to be CIA/SAS/whatever? Actually they’re Japanese. A globetrotting assassin who largely operates outside of Asia because the stories are inspired by international events? Oh wow whodathunkit they just happen to be of Japanese origin. Oh Jesus and Buddha are people living mundane lives in current day society? LOL of course it’s set in Japan, where else.
Disney does the same shit for movies set in foreign countries. The adults all speak with thick foreign accents, while the kids sound like basic American kids, so American audiences relate to them.
nta, but that's a terrible comparison since that's just voice acting, not a part of the story. When the films are taken overseas, this discrepancy isn't present because the new voice actors are usually native to the country they're dubbing for. That's why Elemental rebounded, since this worked when it was changed to include an all-Korean cast.
Elemental was a genuinely good movie that was marketed poorly. Word of mouth carried it, because it's actually a good movie, probably the first good movie Disney animation has released since Moana.
And there hundreds of counter examples to that.
In the specific case of Monster though, it's actually pretty fricking important for a number of reasons. Physical isolation from his extended family. Visibly very distinctive when there's a manhunt n for him.
Also, his design specifically contrasts with johnan
Check lunge's notes about his alienation from both german and japanese society.
>. They put him in Idol Master for Christ's sake.
I dunno. Makes PERFECT sense to me.
Could have made him African, Filipino, Chinese, South American. But no, had to be Japanese.
Would any of those have added to the story or do you just have a fetish for superficial diversity over anything deeper?
Monster does a very good job of representing modern german culture, and it's a deep take, touching on east vs west germany, the turkish immigrants, and their police system. It absolutely could not be set in Japan because of the very different medical system, which is a point that clearly flew over your pointy head.
Can you name a few US titles that do as good a job with the same modern german culture?
Japan, is unsuprisingly japan-centric. And you might get triggered, but you got caught out on one of the worst titles to b***h about, and look like a goddam idiot.
Araki spends a LOT of fricking time studying other cultures, and it shows in his character design. But he also knows how to shut the frick up about it when it's not part of the story he wants to tell.
Why does Monster have to do superficial diversity with a Japanese surgeon?
Any adaptation made in wherever can make him whatever.
This is a weird thing to fight over in a thread created for the implicit purpose of complaining that there aren't enough white men in capeshit.
Or have him be any type of foreigner. He could’ve even been American.
>Reincarnated as a Slime
>Literally could have just been about a sentient spike climbing to power
>Instead he has to be a reincarnated 37 year old Japanese salaryman, even though it doesn't seem to mesh with the characters apparent gender identity.
>the characters apparent gender identity.
homie, he's a slime, he doesn't have a gender.
That would be fine if he just rejected his old identity but he constantly reassures that he's a 37 year old man, yet insists on taking the form of a younger version of a female character. It's like wacky gender bending hijinks you see in other anime except it's entirely self imposed so it makes no sense. They even show he could make himself look like a grown man if he wants to.
Why not just have him admit he wants to be the little girl? Even marketing for the series leans into that. They put him in Idol Master for Christ's sake.
It loses the kink factor with Japanese otaku/fujoshi they just actually make the character trans or nonbinary.
Look how Bridget suddenly only gets western/weaboo fanart now.
Japan actually has no problem drawing trans or non binary, but it's more a question of category. In this specific case a bigger issue was western idiots going after japanese fanartists for "not respecting bridget's gender", by labeling him as male.
One Piece the most popular manga in Japan is full of transgender characters. Sanji had an entire arc where he trooned out on an island of drag queens, mega homosexual Bon Clay was one of the most important characters in Impel Down and Ivankov the troony with the power to forcibly gender transition other characters is one of the strongest characters in the series, and depicted as a hero, not a villain.
>One Piece the most popular manga in Japan
Not these days
Yes these days. You can still find one piece tankobons in every 7-11 and combini in Japan, you can't say the same of any other manga series. This year One Piece 105 sold 1,900,000 copies. The closest book to that is JJK 21 with 1,770,000 copies sold and the third highest selling book of the year in Japan is One Piece 106 with 1,600,000 copies sold.
It's insane how a manga can sell so much and still be mid. I've been reading it since SJ came to the states and it's still not the greatest manga ever.
I feel the same way about several big selling manga. It just appeals to enough people.
Post the pages where Sanji gives in to the troons and puts on the dress as the King Troon carries him away in his arms.
This, Bon Clay and Ivankov are the only reason netflix wanted to adapt live action One Piece
the anime added some strange filler to the timeskip
all sanji did for the two years was run endlessly. those trannies are relentless
>the only reason netflix wanted to adapt live action One Piece
Yeah not that it’s a hugely popular IP you moron but so they can do a trans subplot in 6 years
Bon Clay's first appearance is Alabasta, which is next season.
>all sanji did for the two years was run endlessly. those trannies are relentless
The anime is canon, the Sanji troons out episode isn't filler.
That's a gag, you moron.
>Sanji troons out
>Ivankov forms a gay club in impel dawn and troons out the people in his kama
>Bon Clay saves the day with his transgender crossdressing
Oda devoted multiple chapters to all of these "gags"
troons out
Stopped reading there.
Don't forget big tiddy Yamato who continues to say she's a man and bathes in the male section of the bathhouse, or Kiku who is a man who calls himself "a woman at heart"
>ESL
Imagine being monolingual and still have the gall to talk shit
Imagine being so irrelevant that you have to learn a new language to converse with anyone who matters.
>Another manga that completely mogs anything Marvel or DC have published in the last 10 years.
>Yamato
Ah, It's funny how this picture just absolutely destroyed that whole thing. Best Girl Yamato.
>of a younger version of a female character.
You mean a shota.
No like a specific female character (that he absorbed).
Not even. He’s just a girl. Looks and sounds like one. It’s weird.
Araki was the most based for working around this.
>Giorno is half Japanese
>moves to Italy, changes his name, hair turns blond
>never brings up his heritage again
I actually theorize this is a way that they as authors absolve themselves of "inaccuracy." Like yeah it's 1500's England but there's a random Japanese guy, so you know from the get-go this shit you're about to read ain't shooting for historical perfection, just fun. It's not a bad strategy all things considered. Maybe we could learn a thing or two, but who am I kidding, everything in America is super serious business all the time except for your chapterly joke ration with like three options of jokes to pick from
Wouldn't surprise me if it were some kind of rule at the publisher, or even a law.
It helps that most Patriotic American characters aren't really saying anything about that Patriotism. AllMight is an Ameriboo because Capeshit is American. That's a fun bit, but it could ultimately be removed from his character without losing his core identity. Japanese don't have to approach American Patriotism with much philosophy positive or negative, there's no slowing down to ask AllMight what he thinks it means to be a true American or the values we should idealize AS AMERICANS.. He just screams States while punching people and it's fricking terrific. All the sentimental core is safely compartmentalized from his cheesy American parts. It's easier for Nips to make fun dumb Patriots because it's just fun for them, they don't really care to say anything deeper.
HOLD THE FRICK UP. I haven't kept up with that series, because its disposable shonen.
>All Might.
>American as frick.
>Actually Japanese
>Goes too america, to learn superheroics, the most American of the comic arts.
Someone slap the one of the luna brothers. The crazy one. IT'S MOTHERFRICKING COLONIAL MAN.
LOL. The MOST FRICKING IMPORTANT part of the japanese market is that they make more of what sells. Whether it's shojo, or cuck porn, or shonen to TV series.
Shonen jump, which is a mix of print and web with a pipeline to animation.
phew, I was afraid for a moment
>Our slop isn't selling?
>Oy vey it's not our shit writing and drawing, it's market forces outside ~~*our*~~ control!
What did they mean by this?
>>The market is changing
Oh? What are your plans to adapt to the changing market?
. You know, that thing we have been focusing our efforts on for nearly two decades now.
Nothing against diversity and inclusion. But how is continuing with something they are already doing supposed to be a solution?
I'd take Rob Liefeld's word over this homosexual.
Who even is this guy supposed to be and why should care what he has to say?
Old Marvel editor. Known for being the editor when Marvel filed for bankruptcy in the '90s.
>"the editor"
I think Brevoort is a certified clown, but he was pretty low on the totem pole by that point (he was more or less starting to climb up the editor ladder by the time Clone Saga happened for one). I'm reasonably sure Bob Harras was the EiC when that happened.
The bankruptcy was basically happening during the interim year between DeFalco and Harras when Marvel was divided into four or five segments each with it's own EiC, Harras had only recently been made the sole EiC when the bankruptcy was officially announced. If you read into it, you'll see it was all the fault of the execs above editorial getting the company into massive debt that they couldn't pay off when the industry took a turn for the worse.
He's gonna be the new editor fricking up the X-Men further.
He’s one of the reasons the Spider-Man books are so bad, with him smugly declaring that deliberately making bad or unpopular decisions is 4D chess that translates into more sales because “people hate read” lol.
Which, in an age of immense digital piracy, really shows that he’s the most out of touch person of all. Fortunately for him, it’s the retailers who have to sell his bad comics, not him.
He's not the Spider-man editor, different guy
I know, but he agrees with and echoes the bullshit mandate that One More Day is never allowed to fricking go away. He stands by it 100% because he’s a Gwen Stacy guy because that’s what it was like when he was a child.
>because he’s a Gwen Stacy guy
If I had to guess he was probably one of the yes men for Sins Past.
Sins Past was a JMS/Alonso/Quesada collaboration.
Yeah, no
You can plug your ears all you want, but that doesn't change the facts. The guy you don't like isn't responsible for every decision you don't like that happens at any given publisher.
NTA, but I think people just latch onto Brevoort on Sins Past because he was a staunch defender of its results ("we don't TRY to get people riled up [yeah as if] but we noticed that when they are riled up, sales increase").
It's not so much riling up as they want to get people talking. They would rather people angrily talk about comics than be completely apathetic and this honestly does describe a good chunk of the Marvel line right now. What drives discussion of Marvel comics on Cinemaphile? Seething about Spider-Man and Krakoa. Most of the other books might as well not even exist.
But the thing is, people aren't really buying the books for those reasons
You look at ASM and they've been pushing Disney variants, which will be bought by Disney collectors that don't care about the comic inside
"Wow there's 500 posts in the thread shitting about Wells' Spider-Man" does that truly translate to sales for the story or are they just pointing to variant buyers and claiming those are angry customers?
He wrote a fricking Bible on the character that they use to this day. And it's all moronic
To be fair, that was in the early age of digital piracy. Such a visionary, though...
There was also the movie synergy factor. Shoving in Wolverine and Spider-Man when they had movies coming out and stuff.
Context? I know there's gonna be shit-talking towards someone involved.
How well do digital releases of monthlies from the big 2 actually sell? I only know a few people who have ever read Marvel or DC comics that way, and it's usually attached to a story about them getting access to them in some package deal or extreme sale.
>Japan:
>Things are going heavily into digital now. Maybe we should release chapters digitally first, then phase out chapters are new ones release, so people who hop on the bandwagon late have to chase the physical volumes (or the digital ones) and pay for those.
>Industry: healthy
>US:
>Shit is happening. So much shit is happening. Pandemic, you know? Pandemic happened. Do you see what's going on with Ukraine? And over in Palestine now? Messed up, man. So we have no choice other than be good boys and girls, let the grown ups do the talking, and just reassure ourselves we've heard all this before but the industry never fully died.
>Industry: managing to contract sales even further when they were already concerning 10 years ago, despite super hero movies being the face of popcorn cinema for a decade.
Really makes you think
>Shit is happening. So much shit is happening. Pandemic, you know? Pandemic happened. Do you see what's going on with Ukraine? And over in Palestine now? Messed up, man. So we have no choice other than be good boys and girls, let the grown ups do the talking, and just reassure ourselves we've heard all this before but the industry never fully died.
Have you tried... changing with the times, Tom? Just because something's been dying for a long time doesn't mean it isn't dying. Of course, there will always be people making comics, the medium as a whole cannot die once invented but there's a big difference between 10 people being able to put together a comic book with 10 000 readers and an industry. People have been talking about Global Warming's dangers for like 150 years. People said 200 years before Rome got sacked that Rome was dying. You know what? The doomsayers were fricking correct the entire time. Just because it takes a long time for a catastrophe to hit doesn't mean it won't. People have been afraid of nuclear war for almost a centuary. "It hasn't happened yet" doesn't mean it won't happen or that we're not on the path to it. This fricking moron is a great example of why the big two are so fricked. He has no foresight and is too arrogant to ever reconsider his positions. "Times change" is not a truth to be learned from but just an excuse for failure.
These people are exhausting. They look at the truth, acknowledge it, repeat it, say they will act accordingly and still won't fricking change. It's unbelievable.
You're right about everything else but
>People have been talking about Global Warming's dangers for like 150 years
150 years ago, and even 70 or so years ago, the big narrative was a new ice age was coming, a global freezing. Then they switched to the potential disappearance of the Ozone layer, and when that didn't happen, they switched to global warming. Then the temperature projections didn't pan out, and they switched to a much more general Climate Change, which can apply to any given perceived change from the standard weather patterns.
>Then they switched to the potential disappearance of the Ozone layer, and when that didn't happen
Because we fricking banned shit that was creating the hole and the ozone layer now has had decades of recovery.
I'm glad it's dying, well deserved when the people working in it are like this.
I think Webtoons will be a huge threat to Marvel in the long run.
They are essentially why moving to digital only won't be as simple as making the same content as current floppies, but online. But that still seems to be their plan of attack.
I wouldn't mind if they stuck to the old page standards. I just want a good fricking story.
DC already understood that and made a deal, Marvel still tries to make make his own platform but they are and just hire morons, they offer marvel unlimited for $5usd a month but they don't give free stuff like
points out to hook you up, so people just pirate them
>Asian sweatshoptoons
all comics is sweatshop work
yeah they buy actual good printed media (manga) and leave LGTV+1080p propaganda in the shelf
if i didn't buy graphic novels and horror comics i would't get 1 single westerino comic in 10 years almost 90 is forced homosexualry i even had to resell the DIE comics i got 5 years ago cuz it turned from a grimdark horror DnD to some tranoid shit
He's right, the market is changing...to a less lucrative one.
A lot of larger industries consider lack of growth to be a state of "dying". Aren't the big two's comics past that point? A single Batman and Spider-Man story doing alright once a year doesn't indicate growth.
>Market is changing
My fricking ass.
Pic related is a character that came into official existence in 2017. Gojo Satoru
The manga he's come from eclipses the sales of comics of other DC and Marvel characters. He is now arguably more popular than even Miles, despite Miles existing for a more longer time and even having 2 movies and 2 video games to play as him. Miles had to be pushed relentlessly just to become popular, and he would've never become popular if he didn't have the Spider-man name backing him!
Do you see what I'm getting at here? Creativity at DC and Marvel is at an all time low. The writing is also shit, so the market has indeed changed, it's changed in favor of manga and to an lesser extent, manwha.
Insane that a character with such huge pull ended up getting killed off.
Imagine if comics had that kind of integrity, putting the narrative over marketing.
No characters being dead for a few months doesn't count.
Gaygay really hates him.
I praise him for having hate stronger than his greed.
And why can’t you be happy with that? Why the endless whining?
I just literally want americans comics to be better is all. I don't want manga to surpass it, I just want comics to be on the same level as manga.
It just sucks seeing people who don't even care about comics writing for it. That they're only there so that they can be a writer for Hollywood.
>I don’t like X so clearly they must hater comics!!
Grow the frick up.
Why are you still pretending this isn't the case?
Where's the love of comics from these writers? Show them to everyone.
Grow up, I said.
Concession accepted. nta btw.
Al Ewing.
I remember when Cinemaphile couldn't stop blowing this homosexual and now he's pretty much irrelevant. He writes the same wokeslop as every other wokeslopper.
At one point, he was cleaning after bendis bullshit and actually respected continuity, even if you could see some problems already. Now he's not hiding behind possibly worse writers' mess.
Continuity wanker, not a good writer.
I can't even bare to pirate Marvel books anymore. Not sure how people can still be paying for them.
yeah, diversity is the problem in modern comics. but not social diversity, but story diversity. all these goddamn comics are the same.
>Muh world events
How bad was WW2 for comic book industry?
Yes, the market is changing! But why are they refusing to change with it?
In context he clearly means "diversity" in terms of "different types of comics you can buy."
I'm not sure he's right that there is a diverse range of material, but that's what he's claiming.
> “Still, those folks who were predicting the demise of the field ten or twenty or thirty years ago would no doubt be shocked to learn that it is still here. The diversity of material new and old that is readily available today is astounding, and shows no genuine sign of abating.”
>The market is changing
Sure is
The people who noticed it was dying 30 years ago are still correct.
>Any day now! Honest! It’s right around the corner! You just wait!
That's generally how death works, yes.
Got to love the "yeah it's shit, but it's always been" approach. Is this supposed to be PR? Because it seems as if Tommy has his heads in the clouds.
Shills ALWAYS shit on their product, it's an interesting phenomenon. They don't actually care about the thing they are trying to sell, but the have to defend it, so the cognitive dissonance fricks with their minds: "Yeah, this is yummy. It tastes like shit, but it's sooo yummy!".
Time to close down shop Zach. The age of LCS is over.
he's trying to sell the shop now. wonder why
He is an arrogant douche who'll tow the current company line until the end and STILL blame everyone except himself and the culture his peers created.
And what culture is that?
try harder
He is right about the market changing but its a change in format to places like Webtoon than any big publisher oriented affair.
I'm convinced that this man would drag down the company to financial ruin a hundred times over before ever admitting that he's wrong.
The man wants to bring down the company at the day of his retirement.
Why is he still in charge? Why is CB Cebulski still in charge? Why are these out of touch old men with no finger on the pulse in control of a publishing company trying to reach the kids and YA demographic?
>Why is he still in charge?
He & CB one of the few guys left at Marvel that understands the logistical side of paper comics as well as creative.
I think the problem is that people aren't being honest. If we could admit we're lamenting the loss of a third space in the form of comic book stores the conversation would be way different than these unrealistic claims that the medium can't survive a switch to a digital form factor or that the cash cow IPs will somehow stop existing.
Most people who buy them physical aren't reading them in the first place. That's why any excuse to make a variant cover or a new #1 is exploited.
It's not surprising people are doubting a fully digital approach would work when most of the people who care now are treating it as a collection or investment, not a way to consume new stories.
It's why there's barely any outrage about Paul in Spiderman, it has no visibility.
>That's why any excuse to make a variant cover or a new #1 is exploited.
That specifically has been a problem since the 90s. It already lead to one industry bubble burst, and yet somehow we just repeated those mistakes and shifted the blame to everything/anything else.
If the comics industry was doing as well as these people claim they wouldn't have to constantly keep telling us it's doing well.
>they wouldn't have to constantly keep telling us it's doing well
Investors. They're trying to bullshit investors, not us.
Slott just claimed the current ASM run is the highest selling run in the past 20 years. Someone's definitely lying here.
Was it highest selling because of the Disney variants?
It’s definitely bullshit because capeshit sales keep declining in general. These people would kill for the sales numbers they were getting 30 years ago.
>ASM
I already know the answer to this: Digital downloads being counter as "sales".
https://www.marvel.com/comics/series/32866/the_amazing_spider-man_2022_-_present
Count every subscriber who has downloaded a comic from this run as a "sale" even though that isn't revenue. Same shady shit some manga publishers do.
Why shouldn't they? I mean if they buy a digital copy it's still buying shit right, and they used to not count them. Do they release digital sales data yet?
I think he's referring to digital sales being the subscription platform more or less, not individual digital purchases
Marvel Unlimited works via subscription not per issue. It's three months behind what's in the shops. Like I said, a scummy way to increase "sales" without actually selling merchandise.
>Marvel "Unlimited"
>Limited to older comics
>New digital comics are still $4.99 (if you want to catch up)
>Not even a discount
It's so scummy I'd actually want to pirate.
>can torrent most of the old issues you actually want to read
truly that's the unlimited way to go
>digital subscriptions
Completely useless since you can just torrent everything easily. Physical still has its uses. And I hate how every digital platform for books has defaulted to new prints. Old paper all day every day.
It's even worse, since dugital subscriptions lag 3 months behind releases. If you want to read newer (digital) books it's still the cover price.
It's changing into an even smaller market with less work and less product.
Why should I spend 5 dollars a month for 20 pages of untalented hacks ruining a characrer I like?
>Tom Brevoort Denies Industry Is Dying, “What Is Likely Happening Is That The Market Is Changing”
Yeah, the market is changing into a one where the comics industry is dead.
He’s a small cog in a larger structure that’s struggling that also won’t admit why it’s struggling
Get rid of all the gay shit and maybe just maybe you'll bounce back to below profitable.
The ultimate issues with American comics industry is
1. Lack of genre diversity and overuse of superheroes (there is no josei equivalent in American comics).
2. To build off 1,Superhero genre is stale and unable to satisfy its niche.
3. Comics are simultaneously too convoluted (too many retcons and reboots) and too simple (lack of serialization,continuity and proper endings mean audiences are not interested in investing long term. There is very little character/narrative evolution in American comic superheroes compared to even vapid shonen manga, because even long mangas tend to follow along a narrative of sorts.)
Brevoort's comments come off as cope. Minority/women protagonists aren't bad but cannot rectify the core issues. The death of Marvel/DC Comics and superheroes are what will save American comics, as I have said before.
None of your criticisms are applicable to publishers like Image and Dark Horse who do even worse than the big two.
It all comes down to distribution and marketing, the business side of the comic business is it's biggest weakness.
The product being put out is the biggest weakness. There is no demand for this woketard agenda pushing shit, there is no demand for 20 page floppies at $5 each, the business model is still stuck in the 80s while consumers have moved on
A good manga would have these two kissing or a panel where they talked about how their love or something
Capeshit has always almost had terrible scholcky writing, but somehow that's the fault of gay characters? Just sound like equality to me.
>None of your criticisms are applicable to publishers like Image and Dark Horse who do even worse than the big two.
Of course Image and Dark Horse aren't doing gangbusters. They've been on half-rations in terms of allowed shelf space since their foundings.
Honestly they came into being too late in the game to ever get a significant foothold. Marvel and DC effectively have everything in a chokehold and the only third party to not be a part of that and still succeed is fricking Archie.
Because Archie didn't have to play the LCS game whereas everyone else did.
It's supply and demand. Kirkman's Walking Dead and Invincible, Millar's stuff, Saga and so on had no problem doing Big Two numbers.
The industry isn't dying. Two big corporations who just enjoyed years of unprecedented profit are on a downturn.
This is an important mask-off moment for the industry. People shouldn't feel angry about any of this. In fact we should thank them all for their candor. Now we know comic shops are bad at selling new comics, and publishers and creators hate comic shops. Great.
This is liberating. Now Marvel can drop the pamphlet format, which no one outside of comic shops support. Keep doing your thing.
Likewise, comic shops now know which publishers will not lift a single finger to help them. So don't buy anything from them. Cut them off cold-turkey. If you complain about your business but still carry Marvel and DC products, you don't deserve any sympathy. You know what they are. You know how they think about you.
They might still be sore about that meeting a couple years ago where the shop owners were jumping at their throat for killing the business.
Anyone can feel how they wish. If they want to run their business based on emotions, that's fine. If they want to hold on to grudges, that's fine. I'm just glad it's all out on the table, and everyone can take responsibility for their own decisions from this point on.
We don't even need to have discussions about how the industry can be saved. No one's listening. No one even wants it.
He knows it's dying, he's just being a prideful fat moronic asshat.
Hope this chipmunk looking frick ends up homeless.
I wonder how many of the cancel pig homosexuals lurk here and are seething the schadenfreude from people happy to see the industry they infested and destroyed from inside going down in flames.
>all of them
No doubt they're b***hing about it in their whisper network discord
To a degree, yes, the market is changing, but capeshit comics are still dying because they refuse to adapt to that change.
They adapted, just backwards.
The gene for six fingers is dominant, but since it's a lethal combo nobody has six fingers.
This guy is a fricking moron, most Avengers and Fantastic Four comics he's edited have been bad and those are the things he cares about most
Come to think of it, was he editing FF during Waid's and Hickman's crappy runs?
I'm pretty sure he's been Fantastic Four editor since the Loeb/Pacheco days to now, so yes, he did edit those.
He was editor under:
>part of Loeb/Pacheco's run
>Waid
>JMS
>McDuffie
>Millar
>Hickman
>Fraction
>Robinson
>Slott
>Ryan North
The only good Fantastic Four comic during his time as editor is Alex Ross' which Marvel did not publish
His “comics have been dying since 1935” is the most rational take I’ve seen from this latest round of Chicken Little reactions
Never forget that years ago when Wano arc started, the same cancel pigs who ruined western comics tried to cancel oda and one piece for introducing Yamato, because she's named after a WWII imperial japanese battleship. Oda ignored them completely and drew whatever he wanted These same cancel pigs then adopted Yamato as their favorite character because they decided she was a transgender icon, and tried to cancel everyone who didn't agree with that Yamato is a FtM transgender. When cancel pigs oink, laugh at them with derision and carry on your merry way. Ridicule is their biggest weakness and causes them to mindbreak.
>when he says that diversity the answer
Tried skim-reading.
Didn't really see him saying diversity is the answer, merely saying the buzzword to describe... something? I don't think he explained what he meant by diversity.
And further down he seems to be complaining about the political messaging in comics?
Just a lazy article that says nothing and provides zero insight into the corporate structure of why comics are what they are and where their income is coming from to keep them from failing.
He really just said the industry is changing like it always has and they’ll adapt like they always have and the diversity of comics is expanding
"Everything is fine, move along."
I wish journalists dropped stories that said nothing.
Yeah it’s almost like 80% of this shit is grifters and hucksters trying to get attention.
All of these idiots livelihoods are reliant on the comics industry continuing. They are simply trying to ride out the decline as long as possible to preserve their paychecks
The news *is* the fact that the VP of Marvel has nothing of substance to say to retailers. No acknowledgement of root problems, no plan, no changes on the horizon. "Stay the course, and let this pan slowly boil you until you're dead" is the message.
The significance of this will become clear to everyone in maybe another 6 months.
Does anyone actually trust what this motherfricker says and thinks that he isn't just trying to spin perception so the industry doesn't lose face? I feel like it's a common business practice to deny deny deny there's a problem until the people at the top abandon ship.
>Does anyone actually trust what this motherfricker says
No? Just like the homosexual in the pic, there are real shills here trying to start discord and deflect. Standard business practices.
DC and Marvel are subsidized by movie studios. They don't need to sell comics.
And those movie studios are having serious problems this year
My man that's like saying guy sinking in quicksand #1 is being saved by guy sinking in quicksand #2.
lol bro, do you have any idea how fricked Warner Bros is? And how fricked Disney is about to get?
LMAO WB is 60 billion in debt. Which is 10 billion more than when pre-merger.
The only reason it's still around is because they investors.
>trying to start comicsgate 2.0 in the year 2023
social media has been the biggest plight on humanity
>oink oink oink
Didn’t except to see revisionism on Waid FF
Waid has always been bad.
It's been happening the past five or so years
Hated it for years on end
There isn't a single good writer in capeshit.
Yes there are, impostor
Name 3.
The continuing success of manga is really the knife in the heart of their bullshit.
It completely destroys all of the bullshit narratives the woketards and cancel pigs push. And many of the top mangaka are women, like Gotouge, so they can't pretend that the industry and readers hate female creators either. People love reading comics. They just don't want the overpriced agenda driven capeslop being published by out of touch editors and writers in Marvel and DC.
>And many of the top mangaka are women
And? Misogynists would have to understand Japanese names to know when the author is a woman or not.
Oink oink
The saddest thing is I would’ve thought for sure that Millar could come up with something better than “Cancel Pigs”. It’s so lame
>oink oink
Cancel pigs works perfectly and describes what they are perfectly. It's highly effective and the cancel pigs absolutely hate it. Unlike "Social Justice Warrior" which they embraced with pride, they'll look like cringe clowns if they try to embrace "Cancel Pig" as a term of endearment. It's the perfect description for these damaged people.
You don't really need to "come up with something" because it's just a descriptor. This shit isn't "a movement," despite comicsgate gays trying to hijack it for their own grifts. It's just pointing out the facts of why things suck right now.
America is literally collapsing my dude everything here is dying
WHAT isn't collaspsing? Have you seen news for China, UK, EU, Russia, Japan, South Korea etc etc. You go by each news about them you'd swear they're going to be the new Sri Lanka.
i think its mostly one percenters sperging out about low birth rates increasing value of labor so they make a fuss about it in the news nonstop
rich frick don't care what color the skin of their slaves are, lmao
true diversity
Until they're in a nursing home
The problem with all the culture wars gaygortry is that every example they give of some kickstarted piece of shit that fixes things is the most generic capeshit trash ever.
Let me just tell you about my experience trying to get back into comics after years away so you see why this industry has a problem. You see I thought I'd just buy DC Universe Ultimate sub so I can catch up. I don't need to build another wall of trades up, i'm not a teen anymore also I'm not invested in shit going on now so I don't care about the six month delay. The problem is it is so, so hard just to get a working reading order of runs from each imprint and reboots just straight up. The stopped reading sometime during the New 52.
Like If I want to read everything Milestone or Wildstorm or something including the little minis and crossovers, the multiple reboot attempts I missed where would I go to see it all listed in reading order? Fricking nowhere that's where!
I'm over here playing internet detective so I know what to read when. I swear I should just buy a VIZ subscription and be done with this shit. Where do you start with Naruto? VOLUME ONE. What a concept. I'm not even going to talk about how the whole New 52 is only available on the highest subscription tier because I don't want to lose my composure over here so there is this huge chunk of shit from 2011 asking for more money. Fricking hell DC get your shit together its 2023, there is no excuse for this shit. They make even the most simple shit like a secret handshake and its so stupid.
>MUH MANGA
Aaaaaaaand post ignored
You want a mangaless post: DC makes it legit hard just to read their comics online in order for no good reason then has the gall to ask for more money. They are stupid poopy heads that have cooties.
Just start with Vol x #1 of any given title, that's not difficult.
Its harder than it needs to be because there are multiple #1s then multiple books connected to that specific initiative that all come out randomly with several creative teams over several years then they all suddenly die off then they do it again a few years later. Like Wildstorm literally ended then became part of DC then it started again at some point then it got rebooted again I think. Why the frick am I playing detective trying to make sense of this? Give me a list, put it together so I can just follow Wildcats or Storm Watch or fricking DV8 or Gen 13 from their first book to the newest one they have. Every issue and reboot. Give me the event list that has a dozen tie-ins so I know what to read when. Make it easy. Nope go fricking sus it out hope you like to google shit from a decade back.
I'm looking at their search and they have what you want, I don't see the problem. They literally have a category called "Start Here" https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/browse/comics
Google the necessary information. It takes 5 seconds. Shit’s easier than ever nowadays.
It shouldn't be so hard that you have to do a google search just to know the reading order of a story. That is capeshit's fundamental flaw. Only autistic boomers care enough to keep reading this slop.
It sounds like you're projecting your autism onto others. The site gives you multiple starting points and even has an "easy reads" category.
It's got the same problem as gundam. My friends tell me they want to get into gundam and ask me what to watch. I tell them shit about the universal century and there's chronological vs debut order, non uc series like wing or G gundam. I get about 3 sentences in and I see their eyes visibly glaze over. Complicated chronology is a huge barrier of entry for all normies. Even when I directly link them a page that suggests watching order they don't use it. Normies. Hate. Thinking.
You know what I shouldn't even say normies considering I'm sure as shit not about to look up where to start with comic books kek
More like a universal thing with humans.
>Waaaahhhh it’s too hard.
It’s not. Grow the frick up. The time you’ve spent whining could have been doing a cursory google search that would have given you necessary information