Can they be done well? I like to think so but I have yet to see it done well.
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Trans Characters
Can they be done well? I like to think so but I have yet to see it done well.
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Yes, they can be done well, but it doesn't matter to Cinemaphile because they will hyperfocus on the trans aspect and hate it so much that it will taint their entire perception of the character's aspects, trans-related and not.
May I ask you a genuine question anon? How would you do it?
which of these characters are trans
None as far as I know, I just used it because its the only relevant 'pride' thing I've got in my folders. Mainly do to Harley/Ivy. Kate.. and Apollo and Midnighter
Dreamer. Blue mask, center cover.
Is Dick queer now? I thought Tim was the gay Robin.
Probably showing off an "ally" if I had to guess. You know people can support X without being apart of X yeah?
Yeah I get that but it's weird when you got lesbian Batwoman. It'd be like having Cyclops standing in front of a Canadian flag for Canada Day when you got Deadpool and Wolverine right there.
Fair enough but that Nightwing one is a separate cover, clearly, and it was probably a "See? Dick stands with Kate and Tim!" type mentality or they just wanted to use Dick's sexy ass.
They could have physically shown him standing with Kate and Tim.
Can I get one of those, but it says "ENEMY"?
They could have yes.
Nah, all books got Pride variants, whether as allies or otherwise.
If someone made him incidentally bisexual I wouldn’t bat an eye
I could totally see that. Dick is the female equivalent of the male gaze
But other people would have a mental breakdown and start endlessly posting about their homophobia induced anal sex obsession
>How would you do it?
Just make being trans a small part of their character. They won't bring attention to it, unless absolutely necessary.
What are their powers? What is their personality like? What are their hobbies? How do they keep friendships? How to they deal with villains? etc.
The only times it should be brought up is if the villain has a gender based theme (like Amazon explaining why women are better,) or if he/she goes on dates, and wonders when to let the person dating that they're trans.
>Yes, they can be done well
Proof?
Oh you were joking. TRANSformers. Pretty good.
I wasn't. Anode is a transgender Transformer.
That's a machine. it doesn't reproduce sexually and it can reinstall parts at will. My understanding was that characters who can magically handwave the physical aspects of transsexuality away eg Ranma don't count as "real" representation.
>That's a machine.
Cybertronians are energy beings that just use robot bodies to run around.
>it doesn't reproduce sexually
True, but they still socially developed genders.
>and it can reinstall parts at will.
Which is exactly what Anode did. She got a new body to better match her self-identity. Her life as male was during Cybertron's government-enforced conformity era. In fact, not being able to determine much of ANYTHING about your life is what led to the Autobot/Decepticon war in the series that Anode is from.
Also, being trans does not automatically mean you want to change your parts.
>My understanding was that characters who can magically handwave the physical aspects of transsexuality away eg Ranma don't count as "real" representation.
Well, you're wrong. Stop looking at everything as needing to stick to rigid rules.
>True, but they still socially developed genders.
Which isn't sex. Or a real thing.
>Also, being trans does not automatically mean you want to change your parts.
Oh you're one of those "trans as a fashion statement" types. Okay lol.
You're making a whole lot of incorrect assumptions and it's funny to me how wrong you are.
>socially developed genders.
>Which isn't a real thing.
Ahaha. Ahahahahaha.
>Cybertronians are energy beings that just use robot bodies to run around.
The "spark" is analogous to the soul. In IDW continuality (the one you're pulling that character from), a naturally-created spark will form its body on its own based on what their spark desires, and even cold constructed bots can have their sparks reshaped (see: "Your First Mistake").
>They still socially developed genders
Completely meaningless in IDW outside of trans issues since they turned Arcee trans.
>She got a new body to better match her self-identity
Only really an argument for cold constructed bots. The only reason she's "assigned male" with some body like that is so that they can make the transformer trans.
>Stop looking at everything as needing to stick to rigid rules.
Stop breaking rules in order to push narratives that don't make sense.
You misunderstood.
>Completely meaningless in IDW outside of trans issues since they turned Arcee trans.
not correct: IDW Cybertron went through a period of forced homogenization under the Functionist rule, where everything was based on one's alt-mode and anything causing distinctions aside that was shut-off.
The character, thus, has not developed "body dysphoria" as much having "stunted identity development"
"I lived all my life with only pop boyband songs, then I went outside and learned there was METAL. Thus I became METAL." sort of thing.
For all purposes and intents, she went through the same thing as Thundercracker, except he didn't discovered he was a grill, he discovered he was a FILMMAKER
Transformers "Functionalism" does not equate to gender identity at all you idiot. The closer real-world allegory is utilitarianism.
They explicitly pushed to remove any identity factor except Alt-Mode Identity.
"Gender" was just of of those things, though it's obvious cybertronian "gender" isn't the same thing.
And Utilitarism is completely different from Functionism.
If anything, Functionism was just extreme classismcaste system.
"Caste" system is an end-result that comes from society being separated. It's the "what" of society's inequality. Transformers's Functionalism answer the "how/why," same as utilitarianism; it's the ideology that dictates where the lines are drawn when grouping people together.
unless I'm missing something:
Utilitarism is "Morale of an action is dictated by its result"
Functionism is "Your personal value is dictated exclusively by your alt-mode"
They are fundamentally incompatible: Utilitarism would let anybody change alt-mode to better pursuit their interests while it's very taboo for Functionism
>Utilitarism is "Morale of an action is dictated by its result"
"Its result" being what's beneficial to society. It is a muddy area when talking about Transformers. Maybe "genetically-engineered fascism" would have been closer, but the whole idea of Cybertronians being born with some preconceived altmode differing than some individualist skills blooming from human growth means that no label we put is going to match.
>Utilitarism would let anybody change alt-mode to better pursuit their interests
Not really. If an alt-mode doesn't benefit society, then why let them change what their alt-mode is? Why would you let someone turn into... I don't know... a dildo when they were previously a bulldozer?
>the whole idea of Cybertronians being born with some preconceived altmode differing than some individualist skills blooming from human growth means that no label we put is going to match.
that's CasteClass system, anon.
There is no doubt a specific -ism that explains "you are born to this so you cannot do anything else" in one word, but let me tell you it's something existing in our world too.
for Utilitarism letting change alt-modes... it would depend if its applied to personal level or societal level
It wouldn't stop a bot from changing alt-modes unless specifically detrimental though.
>for Utilitarism letting change alt-modes... it would depend if its applied to personal level or societal level
I would think it would be whichever benefits societal levels more, but the rest of your post I have no objects to.
How do transformers reproduce?
When a Ford Mustang and a Chevy Impala love each other very much
Like everything in Transformers, it varies depending on which universe you're looking at. Most universes don't have reproduction, but population replenishment through nearly robo-mystical means. There are rare universes where actual sexual reproduction exist, but they never go into detail about how it works. There's a notable example of asexual reproduction in the original Marvel comics, where a Transformer's body briefly turns to liquid metal to facilitate budding.
Some universes have multiple methods of getting new individuals.
>Some universes have multiple methods of getting new individuals.
For example, here's the two from Anode's universe.
They tied this in which the comic needing to advertise all the new Starscream toys that kept being made during its run, with Starscream frequently changing his body. Turns out Starscream, being constructed cold, has massive body dysphoria and was subconsciously trying to find his "correct" shape.
which, in my opinion, was the best representation possible in the context of the Transformers universe.
No Starscream you're not a masculine robot that feels like a feminine robot. You're a 2016 Chevy Camara in the body of a fighter jet.
What vehicle does Anode turn into
jet biplane
Cute.
And while she doesn't have a toy, her transformation is based off one.
Her lesbian wife who is also transgender is also based off a toy from the same line.
Oof they really were trying too hard insert diversity there. Didn't that series start in 2005? When the heck did a pair of characters like that get introduced?
The pair were introduced in 2016, and their trans-ness was revealed in the middle of 2017. Trans robots and gay robo marriage had already been in the comic for years before that.
Body dysphoria is by no means limited to trans people.
>Body dysphoria is by no means limited to trans people.
I know.
I know that, you know that, but you think those "authors" inserting "representation" do know?
to be fair, cutting parts has been a last-resort measure for extreme cases for a while.
At least as legit medical practice.
Currently it goes:
psychotherapy->psycho-meds->hormone therapy->GRS
This also because drugs DID improve over time: less side effects, more effective, more variety and more precise drugs have been introduced on the market.
Big Pharma IS shit but once in a while they pop-out some improvement. Mostly to justify being shit.
Well, yes, considering how Starscream was shown an image of his "correct self" and he was still clearly male.
That's actually pretty cool and beats the hell out of 'Another f-16'.
that's a robot
give a human example
It's just going to be a story about mental illness, literal and metaphorical
Or I can just stick with real art from before social media without even looking at it
Kys guy, you fricking homosexual
How can you be so stupid as to give me this high quality screenshot of the lgbtq community psychologically assaulting me?
I disagree because them being trans as defining feature inevitably becomes what solely defines their character and gets in the way of everything else, especially if the creator's intent is to create a trans character from the begging over a character who is trans. Hypothetically I do believe a trans character can be done well but in practice making a character trans comes with such a large number of pitfalls and pigeonholes them into tokenism.
the doctor in Immortal Hulk was done well enough.
The character being a trans was irrelevant for pretty much the whole time except ONE specific event, and even that was only indirectly because of it.
Replace them being a troony with any other reason for them to make regular in-depth self-analysis of their psychological state and memories for the, like, 3 panels? where it's mentioned and you get the same exact story.
You can only make cool Trans characters if you know how to make cool characters in general. If you cannot write to begin with all your characters will be lame.
I can smell that image.
>Make a troony
>Give her the power to make others 47% themselves
Weird flex
I figured he was just mentally ill considering he's a sexual degenerate that wants to frick corpses
No. The whole point of being trans is to "transition" yourself into being the opposite gender, which has absolutely no room in fictional worlds and stories not squarely centered around such subjects.
If you want a guy to transition into being a girl in fiction... just make them a girl. And vice versa. There are no limitations like the real world, so having trans characters in a fictional world not focused specifically around the act of transitioning is flawed from the start.
Explain to me why Charles Xavier and Barbara Gordon were wheel chair bound for so long then?
Charles Xavier is up just as often as he is down, and one element being inconsistent and silly doesn't exempt others.
Nice nonanswer I guess.
Make a non argument get a non answer.
Executive Mandates and benching. Charles is a powerful telepath so they wanted to give him a weakness so he didn't no-sell every issue with a mindwipe/control effect. Barbara was just a logical adaptation to The Killing Joke at the time but just like Xavier, she's had constant magical, medical, or cybernetic enhancements to fix this.
>Add on to Masquerade
They don't even work in Krakoa era other than woe is me Trans bullshit. Pre-fall, they could just get remade in the Ressurection Pit with a fully female body. Another mutant, Masque uses his powers for a plastic surgery charity that could give them the full physical appearance of a woman and possibly even a working womb from clone bodies/organ implantation. Reality warpers like Proteus/Mad Jim Jaspers/Brian Braddock could make them a biological woman with the snap of their fingers, and shit even Forge could make a Real Girl Easy Bake Oven now with extra Trans Fats out of a paperclip & some string. And that's without Masquerade's reality warp/identity theft powers allowing them to do the above whenever they wanted anyway just by stealing Synch or Hope bullshit on top of that.
>Charles is a powerful telepath so they wanted to give him a weakness
Funny you mentioned that. Just read What If Charles was the Juggernaut. Basically a physically capable Charles is unstoppable. He takes over the planet very quickly.
Even in the Krakoa era there's a bunch of bullshit and regulations to ensure characters are recognizable and nobody takes the "hey we're making a body from nothing, might as well make improvements" concept to any interesting places (IIRC someone gets himself revived with a bigger dick, but he had special privileges)
If they need to play the trans angle for drama, then it'd probably be treated similarly as a character dying of cancer, despite the fact that there should be a gorillion methods to fix it
>(IIRC someone gets himself revived with a bigger dick, but he had special privileges)
Quire. He had privileges because of X-Force, and kept asking for various things, from a bigger dick to natural pink hair (arguing that it would prevent him from wasting time dying it that could be used in X-Force operations, etc)
But on the topic, it's the whole identity thing, now we're not even supposed to acknowledge that disabilities are disabilities. Like deaf people shunning people who get cochlear implants, or taking their hearing children to unethical doctors to make them deaf (this happened, a family took their kid to Brazil to get it done), because "they're supposed to belong to the community".
So you have people like Karma, who are missing limbs and request to be resurrected without restoring the limb, because not having it is "part of them" or something. You get it with Cable or other characters who have special uses for their high tech prosthetics, but Karma doesn't. It's just identity shit designed not to offend real life cripples who would resent the portrayal of an easy fix, or even a fix at all.
And because of that, they can't write a troony character who gets a real woman body, as that would piss of trannies both because *they can't get that*, and because it implies their condition is something to be fixed (which they insist it isn't, even as they drug and mutilate themselves to fix it).
>they can't write a troony character who gets a real woman body, as that would piss of trannies both because *they can't get that*
Trannies are in general neurotic individuals who would find a reason to get pissed at anything, but I doubt this would be a big enough stink to prevent one from writing such a character. The bigger issue that others ITT have pointed out is that the struggle becomes moot with some sort of magic instant fix. Yes any of those rejects in that troony mutant group could be changed by a whole host of in-universe means, but then the "trans" part of that character becomes a footnote.
It would be the equivalent of introducing a black character to explore the struggles of racism and intergenerational poverty, but then 2 issues in he moves to Wakanda and suddenly none of those things are poignant
>it implies their condition is something to be fixed (which they insist it isn't, even as they drug and mutilate themselves to fix it)
Being trans is an identity, the drugs and surgery are to fix the dysphoria aspect. An actual "fix" for the transgender condition itself would be to make them comfortable with their birth bodies
>>It would be the equivalent of introducing a black character to explore the struggles of racism and intergenerational poverty, but then 2 issues in he moves to Wakanda and suddenly none of those things are poignant
bad example: Wakanda is racist AS FRICK.
...like most African countries.
And moving to Wakanda wouldn't gice the character money.
the character would still be a shat-on poor minority
You are incorrect in multiple ways.
No it can't for reasons this anon stated . It has no appeal to anyone who isn't trans and any fiction a trans person is interested in is going to reaffirm their mental illness. Any good trans fiction would need to be about the character healing their mental state to become normal otherwise it's just disingenuous.
Okay, so check this out; you have a character get hit with a magical gender ray laser or whatever... And it doesn't get reversed "for a while". You figure it's going to be one of those This Changes Everything moments in comics that gets undone in six months. But the character figure out that they don't hate it. Actually, they kind of like it. They start talking to other trans people about their experiences and how it felt for them and how they knew and whatnot, and they lean into it. They aren't just trapped in this body anymore, they're embracing it. And when they finally discover how to fix it, they decide they don't want to.
not very true to life tho
its a totally imaginary representation of a trans community that does not exist
kill them all
Excellent point. I think there are exceptions, but for the most part, it's like this.
Exactly. Nearly every trans character is shoved into a setting where their whole gimmick doesn't even make sense. It's the worst in fantasy settings especially, where you have so many fantastical aspects and likely genderbending potions anyway that the whole ordeal is obsolete.
People who "make" trans characters in games are also ridiculous. Why would you not just be the opposite sex? I can only conclude it's the special snowflake aspect or begging for brownie points.
Pretty much exactly how I’ve always felt: if trannies are the wrong gender “by accident”, then why write a fictional character that way? Just make them the gender they were “supposed” to be from the beginning, hence no trannies. Duh.
Now, the sole exception is stories were the transitioning is the primary focus. If it’s not, there’s no point.
Because they make everything they do about THEMSELVES. When they write a title, either one of the characters is going top suddenly be them in temperament, or they will create a new expie character.
>can delusional psychopaths be done well in fiction?
Well people love a good villian
Like in Mr. Robot
The villain is a troony who kills and destroys countless lives, and makes the world infinitely worse for everyone, in an attempt to find an alternate universe where he was born a woman and sort of overwrite the main universe with it
He 41% himself in the end.
That's probably the best written troony I've seen. They make better villians than heroes. Because thier unsatisfied existence ultimately makes them selfish. And thier willing to destroy/burn most of thier bridges to get what they want.
Ironically makes them more compelling than playing the "victim" in all of the superhero medium. I might check out this show now, thanx anon.
There's obviously a lot more to it than what I wrote, and the full extent of the troony's plot is only revealed by 4th and final season. Most of the show is about the main character's hacking quest and his fricked up existence.
In fact, there's a ton of fascinating characters in it. And the cinematography is fantastic.
I thought Mr Robot was a boutique computer not sci-fi stuff?
Trans stories these days seem one-note and unanimously in one direction.
Give me a character who's trans but does not transition for whatever reason and constantly suffers great mental distress. Or about a troony who constantly faces ridicule and discrimination, even from heroic characters
I had been developing a character like that.
She gets made fun by other tranners because she doesn't care to transition (Medically old fashion nor magically) so others bully and call her some speshul Dickgoblin.
They fear the futa
Sandman had a trans character who was generally pretty based. Wanda helps out the main character against crazy dream demons, is shat on by the local autist witch but still protects them while they go to the Dreaming.
I doubt something like that could be written today. Unless they go all in into making that TERF moon goddess a villain or something
Yeah Neil Gaiman said that he regrets how he wrote Wanda in recent years, so it's unlikely in the show we'll see the moon telling Wanda
>you're not a real woman
Ruins the tragedy and sacrifice of the whole character.
The moon was shown to be in the wrong.
At best we see that Death recognizes Wanda's preferred gender identity, but they still had to play by the moon's rules and exclude Wanda from the isekai adventure to move the plot forward
>At best
If Death recognises your gender that matters more than a god, who are all well established to be largely buttholes to everyone in Sandman.
The Moon Goddess was a TERF and The Endless had to make her take Wanda.
I love her, that is a character well written.
Eeeeeh, I finally read that book a month or two back and honestly Wanda sticks out like a sore and contributed nothing to the story despite a decent amount of focus. A Game of You is defiantly not one of the better Sandman stories in my opinion but Wanda alone drags the story down a decent, even though they were one of the few notable things about the book.
I was going to write either a Invincible fic, a DC fic, or a Marvel fic with a trans OC. MTF or FTM?
in the 90s?
YES
in 2010 or 2020?
LOL = League Of Legends
DT is nonbinary. Enbys and Trannies mix like oil and water.
So does that make the character in the Boys spinoff 'nonbinary' over trans?
Also nonbinary makes the least sense to me personally. I can at least get FTM or MTF. You're one and wish to dress/look/be the other.
If they go by anything other than he/she, they're nonbinary.
>Also nonbinary makes the least sense to me personally
Nonbinary is for women without personality and failed men who want the same brownie points as trans people, but don't want to go through the effort of actually making themselves passable.
I've been to /lgbt/ enough to spot a /lgbt/ anon. Hello pooner.
What the frick are you talking about? Seriously. I'm genuinely confused.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pooner
Well I'm not trans. I just think that nonbinary and transgenderism contradict each other.
The way you expressed that read like some self hater on /lgbt/ so I just assumed.
Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME
Don't make me eat your ass anon.
I've considered going nonbinary just because I think gender roles are stupid. Who cares what color someone's clothes are? Who cares what toys kids play with? Who cares if a guy likes israeliteelry? If dresses are feminine, what about kilts and Roman soldiers? It's all made up shit to make people conform.
You don't have to be nonbinary for that.
Dress like man ya poof!
/s
>/s
It's a shame that image is made by a porn sick individual that makes the point look invalid.
Only if you're a puritan who feels immense guilt for having normal sexual desires.
Porn hitting your brain until you start thinking of yourself as the girl in porn isn't normal.
Killing people in CoD makes me a school shooter, listening to heavy metal makes me sacrifice dogs to satan. Clutch your pearls harder namegay.
The fact that that popped out of your brain shows your brain is oriented towards grooming internet youths, betraying your motivation. Give up, I'm teaching people how to spot things like this
I didn't read your post guy. You're an insufferable namegay who'll never amount to anything and all you'll ever do is seethe endlessly on Cinemaphile
There was nothing to read in yours, it was just the same personal attack you've made hundreds of times before and you're projecting. Now I'm going to screenshot you to email to Industry people again and I'm going to look up emails again, this is just a standard engagement like poking a spear.
Troons like you fold your psychology inward to do things like ascribe your actual thoughts to your enemies in a desperate effort to preserve your ego.
Can you please explain the actual connection there? Can you explain the process of how you reached that conclusion?
Why, so your fellow queers who lack Christian spirits can fight against me and people like me better? Instead I'll just keep messaging people like Homestuck fans working in the animation industry to improve the state of art culture and replace things like transgenderism with Catholic culture
There's no way you're catholic. I'm catholic raised in the church and I'm not a big got. The pop himself has stated we should accept our brothers and sisters as they are.
Guy believes that catholicism means whatever he wants it to mean. He literally worships multiple pagan gods of his own invention and still calls himself a catholic.
You'll never improve the culture if you can't explain your thought processes to others in order to make them see how you're correct.
>Christian spirits
The spirit of sucking israeli wiener? Count me out senpai
It looks like someone trying to justify their femboy porn addiction. Cut out Astolfo, the "thicc legs" part and make a drawing that's not a generic anime girl (male). There we go, image is good now.
All it is, is Astolfo from Fate dancing and a bunch of dates, people, and former clothes/shit men wore. If you look at that image and think "OH MY FRICKING GOOOOD PORN!!!" you're the porn addict homosexual, you're the porn addict.
Explain the "thicc legs" part with a little heart at the end. Why do you think the author included that?
Explain the "Astolfo, Legandary MALE paladin, 9th century" part. Why do you think the author included that?
It just looks like an anime character, calm your breasts.
As I said in my next post, making a comment about the thicc legs and using Astolfo as an example betrays the intention, even if I agree with the overall point that gendered clothing is stupid.
Pretty much
Nonbinary people get all loads of shit thrown their way unless they look and present "normal" or as a short-haired girl in androgynous clothes
You remember those studies done about harassment towards women online? And it was proving that women harass other women more then men harass women online? I would bet you every damn dollar and cent I've got that the most hate LGBT people face online is from other LGBT people. You're damn right the NB/Enbies get loads of shit for the tiniest of bullshit.
All the studies I've seen by the pew say when women are harassed online it's usually done by men. It also said men encounter more harassment in general like name calling amendment racism, while when women are harassed its usually sexually explicit, stalking or threats of violence.
It's not like gender roles have been as strict and forced as they were in the 80s. Tomboys and letting little boys express their feelings has is a modern way of thought but it's been around since like the 90s.
>Who cares if a guy likes israeliteelry?
You do, apparently, if you consider switching from male to non-binary because of it.
>It's all made up shit to make people conform.
But unfortunately this made-up shit forms the foundation for our conceptions of society. Most people were born to a mom and a dad, and they acted the way they did growing up because of the gender roles of their parents, and their parents' parents, etc. It is totally possible to split with this dichotomy of man or woman, only the rest of the world is not going to immediately split with you, and even if you do, a huge part of the programing of "what a man is" vs "what a woman is" will still not be undone. I'm not trying to dismiss non-binary people her--I sympathize with not wanting to "join the dance" so to say--but arguing gender is irrelevant just because society is bullshit, I think, is misguided, pragmatically speaking, after all, money is made up, but we need it to survive. The same goes for morality and so many other things that are completely arbitrary.
Legendary. Wendychads waz eating.
I get what you're saying, but also, things change. Women can vote and work and fight, men can have feelings and be stay at home dads and whatever. The old traditions are pointless.
>Women can vote
That's when our problems began.
Yes, turns out that unless men deliberately keep rights away from other people they get their feelings hurt all the time and cry about it ceaselessly.
ywnbaw
You don’t have to try so hard to flirt.
What the hell am I looking at
Gen V character can switch between a girl and boy form. The character is also played by a male and female actors.
Shapeshifters aren't transgender.
How long until we get a proper confirmed femboy protag?
Nah, and this is coming from a guy who has a gender bender/tgtf fetish.
I've read plenty of fanfics on Ao3 with trans characters that were completely fine. How come official shit can't match up? Is it because official shit lacks soul?
Fics for which material? Most of the time there's no way that shit seems organic
I've read trans RWBY fics, Worm fics, DC fics, Marvel fics, Mass Effect fics (I can't find this Ashley Williams one anymore sadly), Arcane, Percy Jackson, and a lot of 'original works' too
I can guess how most of those justify such a radical character change, teen angst or superhero dual-identity, but how would people justify it in Mass Effect? Melodrama?
The fic I can no longer find just had Ashley be trans the moment Shepard and Kaidan ran into her. That was it. It was a FemShep/Ashley fic too.
gay you probably just have low standards
ok.
>If the female anemonefish is removed from the group, such as by death, one of the largest and most dominant males becomes a female
Marlin had a fussy the whole movie
I dead ass forgot Nemo's dad's name
>dead ass
Plese go have a nice day
I had to look it up too fr
Straight up
The third movie should be called "Finding Marlin" and end the movie with him going by Marlene.
Can it be done? Yes.
Can it be done well? Theoretically, yes. But in reality, no, it won't ever be. For one simple reason: Trans people say they want representation, but they don't want *accurate* representation.
99% of people who identify as trans do NOT actually look remotely convincingly like the opposite sex they claim to identify as (let alone sound or behave like such either), and have a litany of other readily apparent mental comorbidities. But trans activists pushing for representation don't want to see that. They want characters who are completely convincing as the opposite sex to the point you'd never know they were trans unless they either told you, or included something to signal transness, such as a flag, double mastectomy scars, or a binder.
In other words, they don't want genuine representation. Instead, they want more affirmation and re-enforcement for their delusion that identifying as the opposite sex and getting some hormones/surgeries is enough to make you indistinguishable from actual members of the opposite sex. They don't want to see depictions of trans people; they want to see depictions of what they wish trans people were.
So long as this is the case, there will never be actual trans representation in comics, because nothing about trans comic book characters represents actual trans people. Instead, it will just be be trans wish-fulfillment that insults the reader's intelligence by claiming to be the part of the story that's grounded in reality, as opposed complete fantasy.
Not Cinemaphile but Sims lets you do accurate trans folk but it had a lot of reeeeing from both sides
I prefer FTM pooners who don't go full masculine and just rock femboy look.
That's an option too anon
NOW WE'RE COOKING WITH GAS PARTNER!
based. I will now READ your comic
The two being transgender has literally nothing to do with the plot and is only mentioned for 4 consecutive panels during the entire thing, btw.
Cute.
??? how is that cute
how is it anything
Don't question it son.
spencer sunboy
Crazy who less /misc/ this thread is when it's started when the Americans are asleep
I am OP.
I am American.
Sleep is for the weak.. Eurobro?
>I am American.
You're one of the good ones
>Sleep is for the weak.. Eurobro?
I'm Welsh so yeah
I'm just saying if you posted this in like 6 hours it would be full of trans soijacks and get zero actual discussion going. Give it a few hours and see.
Oh I don't need to see. You speak the truth.
Here we go. End of thread guys.
Those are valid post. Transgenderism isn't natural and stories about shouldn't shy away from that grim reality
You can just go to xitter for that kind of shit, you know.
Xitter is a worse toilet than here
Yeah, but they can't get enough of that troony garbage.
So please, do us all a solid instead of perpetuating the "/co/mblr meme.
You could just go to Truth Social.
>Truth Social
What the frick is that
Trump made his own Twitter! With racism! And homophobia!
Cool, I guess.
Go and try shilling trannies there.
Um, nah sweaty, how about you take your hatred elsewhere, mmmkay?
Would anyone out there like to explain to me why bisexual characters are held to this insane standard of if they're not banging every man, woman, and anything in between in sight they are gay/lesbian?
What happened to committed loving relationships?
unironic autism
That happens in real life too. Anything that’s not an either or confuses a lot of people and a lot of those people cope with confusion by getting upset
This. If you're straight, your gf might get a bit insecure if you're looking too long at another woman. With bi people that's everyone.
Unless you have a long established dating history, it does feel a bit cheap to call someone bi when you don’t ever see it actually have any attraction or relationship with the same gender. And I don’t mean every bisexual has to be a bawd, but you should at least pay some attention to actually depicting them as bi even if they are in a committed relationship.
Because after dating a bunch of women, you suddenly find your OTP in the first guy you kissed or being with him feels right while dating women felt like living a lie but now you are living your truth? Doesn't that sound like someone coming out the closet?
I had many successful heterosexual relationships. I had sex with women hundreds of times, and I can safely say I enjoyed the activity. Now I am in an LTR with a man. Doesn't mean women are off the table, just means they're off the table now.
>Doesn't mean women are off the table, just means they're off the table now.
what the frick does that mean?
I'm gonna guess he missed a "for" there, "off the table for now", while the relationship lasts.
Still a fricking degen homosexual, but I get what he's saying
oh ok. That makes a lot more sense.
Well, you probably could, but it runs into the issue a lot of writers face of how to clearly convey that a character is queer without being obnoxious about it. Most just don't have it in them, especially since narratively speaking you either have to go out of your way to emphasize the character's past which would be deadnaming or focusing on their new self which just means treating them as a man/woman but being extremely cagey about it. Honestly, the best thing to do is just only bring something like that up when it becomes necessary to do so in the story, but writers won't like that because it doesn't earn them brownie points with the in crowd to be subtle.
Troonery is an invalid, nonexistent category, ergo, it can never be done well except as an invalidation.
>Can it be done?
Yes
>Should it be done?
No, I prefer my media troony free, unless the troony is the butt of the joke
Current Dreamer in DCU.
She was already post transition though.
Only Cinemaphile adjacent, but Jordan Lee from Gen V is decent enough so far but I've not finished the it yet and I'm only four or five eps in.
I unironically support trans rights
Surprisingly civil thread, given the controversial subject matter.
>Can they be done well?
perhaps if they were villains, it would be a pretty entertaining villain motivation
There have been established characters suddenly becoming bisexual and gay but when will an established character suddenly become transgender?
Depends on what you mean by "established"
actually there are a lot of examples of that already existing in history
for instance, this helpful image
Those are all crossdressers.
Not trans.
no explanation of the difference?
they are trannies
All trannies are crossdressers.
But not all crossdressers are trannies.
Mystique generally being trash is the best you will get
I beg of you to actually talk to a trans person in real life instead of going off what you see on Twitter or /misc/
I have. Most typically have some other kind of mental illness that they insist on making your problem. Also they don’t tend to have good hygiene.
I'm not a muttmerican, so I've only ever seen one once in my entire adult life while applying for a job.
It's a shame they aren't as rare online.
I am a hermit. I don't care if someone is 'trans'. Are they White is the real question.
I have. She just seems to want to take her titty skittles and try to pass. Doesn't try to make waves. Grand enough to be around but a massive alco.
so trannies on twitter are phonies?
I have never encountered a troony in real life before, because quite simply they couldnt get away with it around where I live
Masquerade in Blood Syndicate was done pretty well.
Not as a hero.
Why not?
Catalyst in Apex Legends is fun
Yes, you can write good Trans stories. Just take the trans character on a classic hero's adventure, where they experience ups and downs but ultimately come out on top. Make the fact that they are Trans a secondary or tertiary plot element. However, since most Trans characters are extremely narcissistic, the fact that they are Trans often becomes the main plot, and any adventures they embark on are just unimportant details.
The last good Trans writer was Rachel Pollack. But DC don't want nothing to with her.
Yeah just have them be trans, its that simple.
>The last good Trans writer was Rachel Pollack. But DC don't want nothing to with her.
qrd?
They can, but only if the author actually thinks about and knows what transgenderism really is.
If your world has magical, or sci Fi elements so Wild and fantastical that something like changing gender is just as easy as changing hair colours realistically there should be no trans people in said world (unless some external influence is forcing said individuals to not change their sex)
Transgenderism is all about the struggle, the dysphoria, take that struggle away and make it so a transition is 100% perfect and there's no more trans people. That's why a lot of trans representation makes no sense, because they shoehorn trans characters in a setting that realistically should allow them to Inmediately change their gender and never look back at their old self. of course you can write around this by making it so the character is the one holding themselves from transmission, but that's just if the story revolves around gender issues. In a Accion oriented story you may don't want to spend too much time around just this aspect of a character, specially one that's a psychological struggle rather than a physical one.
Otherwise if you do have a setting where Trans people existing makes sense the best thing would be keeping them from outright transmission, as that can work best as the end of their arc even if their entire story isn't centered around it, it is a good visual way to show this character has completed their development.
Personally I despise Gender reassigning surgeries and anything related to them, not even trans people like those they only look at the procedure in a good way because right now is the only way for them to "change gender", so I tend to write trans characters that default to live as their preferred gender rather than being butchered into changing.
Overall is better if transgenderism is just one piece of the entire character concept rather than the center piece of it.
I only know one example of a trans character done right though.
>If your world has magical, or sci Fi elements so Wild and fantastical that something like changing gender is just as easy as changing hair colours realistically there should be no trans people in said world (unless some external influence is forcing said individuals to not change their sex)
You say "knows what transgenderism really is" and then in the next line show you don't know what it is either.
Fair enough, I am not trans so I can only speak from my own perspective. I do think if trans people had access to a perfect instant gender change "magic" that has no colateral effects most people with gender dysphoria would just... Be who they want to be (men or women) no need for labeling themselves as Trans.
The only reason post operation Trans people keep being labeled as trans is because modern gender surgeries are anything but perfect or even good (in fact barely decent) you can't really feel as someone of the opposite gender if your identity needs to be kept under careful treatment for the rest of your life or else you ruin your body.
I am still a shit writer, so I don't really post my stuff outside close friends.
A character from a RPG "Fear and Hunger 2: Termina". Marina (the girl with the knife in pic rel) was born a boy but for certain reasons she was raised as a girl for her own safety. When she got old enough to take her own decisions she chooses to keep on living as a woman, even when it is no longer needed to keep her safe.
Her transgenderism is important for one of her plot points (revolving around her family, specifically her father) but 90% of her interactions and other events don't even touch the subject at all, in fact unless you play as her most players will finish the game without noticing it, she only reveals this to the player if you trigger a specific event with some other characters.
Otherwise she is the sassy Occultist girl that carves magic shit in your face for extra stats.
>I despise Gender reassigning surgeries
>I tend to write trans characters that default to live as their preferred gender
Actually an interesting perspective. Is there anywhere I can read your stuff?
>I only know one example of a trans character done right though.
Also, which one?
I prefer girl wiener and guys with boobies anyway.
How does guy keep evading my filters?
This is a queer metaphor for me invading his community likely inspired by me messaging Homestuck artists. Thank you for confirming that you're fueled by the Homestuck community, screenshotted. troony homosexual
Seems I got them to work finally.
No idiot, I'm going to find more Homestuck people to contact and filter their ability to express their transgender nonsense with my truth bombs.
Non-binary often means a Homestuck, Steven Universe or Undertale brew of gender trouble, and so they're going to have problems because their "identities" are parasitic on my Catholic creativity.
First step is making them true to life, aka having them sexually assault and harrass everyone around them at every opportunity.
ack
I don’t think it can be done well. The problem with a lot of trans characters is they are mind with a modern audience in mind, so they feel unnatural and don’t fit in with the rest of the cast. They also cover the same story beats over and over again. They are unusual, which means they can never be normalized - they always stick out badly. I don’t think we’ll ever get a “normal” trans character, not in the sense that they’ll be normal and not a troon, or in the sense that normies will accept them, but in that the chronically online troons will always latch onto trans characters, regardless of if they’re good or not to psyop them. So the insane troon fans will ruin any actually trans character, and then the memetic reputation of that character will be morphed by the insanity of the troons, meaning they can never be normal or accepted.
I think the closest we ever got to a “normal” trans character was in fire punch (yeah I know muh Cinemaphile) but the simple fact that Togata was trans means that their fan base is primarily annoying troons who don’t care about anything else, only muh trans. This will happen to any trans character regardless of their actual writing quality.
I feel like that is an unfair thing to say.
Elaborate
Fujimoto didn’t even bother to ever elaborate on it, he dropped it after one scene, which makes it all the more hilarious because the story itself calls togata a girl. I don’t even know why he bothered. But either way my point still stands - now that togata is “trans”, it’s all that’s associated with the character
>Elaborate
We can't know what will happen. We can guess, strongly guess sure but we do not know. It seems anytime a trans or LGBT OC is created in general at least in the Big 2 they are either forgotten about soon after creation and debut or just mocked on here or outright ignored.
>I think the closest we ever got to a “normal” trans character was in fire punch
I get that regeneration makes physical transition impossible, but it still felt like a cop-out of some sort to just draw a girl and call it a troony. Many readers probably just see Togata as a cute girl and memoryhole the troony part
>unironically the best trans representation in a cartoon
thats kinda sad, not gonna lie. i really liked her character tho
There's also that one chick with the deep voice in Morel Orel.
Most of the MTF I've met don't want bottom surgery and the ones that have had it regretted it so.. don't know why so many of you are all like "they want to get rid of the dick" with transitioning.
>Shela first discovered her powers after she accidentally swapped places with the principal when she was in the ninth grade at Ransom High School. She came out to her parents as a mutant with their support. Yet, when she came out as transgender she was ostracized by them
>Shela Sexton
This has to be taking the piss, that name is too on the nose
the character DOES shits on the Krakoa shitshow on a regular base so...
>Can they be done well? I like to think so but I have yet to see it done well.
--Lake from Infinity Train
--Pleakley from Lilo and Stitch
--Hana from Tokyo Godfathers
--Alice from Superjail
These are some of my favorite characters oat, especially Lake. You can be pedantic and argue, "Lake was just NB!" or "Pleakley was just into cross-dressing!" but the creators intentionally left things vague enough when it comes to their "identities" so the viewer can make their own interpretations.
I can't argue with the numbers.
>--Alice from Superjail
I thought that was just for jokes?
Checked
>failing the rorschach test this badly, also checked
A central part of the trans experience is dissonance, the incongruity between what "should be" and what "shouldn't be". Alice from Superjail is the ultimate example of the creator's having the balls (pun intended) to lean in to this contradiciton by telling jokes about it--but here's the thing: She never detransitions and she never stops believing her truth or questioning her identity. So many modern webcomics and Youtube animations and irl TV shows have such seamlessly-transitioned, perfect characters, never showing anything trans that has the faintest wiff of clunkiness. Should the "ideal" get the largest share of representation? Idk, but I know that representation of the "non-ideal" should not be at zero, because as I said earlier, incongruity is core to the trans experience. That's why I see Alice as a very precious special character in the pantheon of trans characters, at least. I know a lot of others see her as a problematic Heart of Darkeness when it comes to transphobia, but, like, to me that's the surface-level take; if you watch the show, her resolve and her desires are consistent and deep enough to qualify as the most genuine of trans characters.
>So many modern webcomics and Youtube animations and irl TV shows have such seamlessly-transitioned, perfect characters, never showing anything trans that has the faintest wiff of clunkiness
There are good amount of trans characters who are far from "perfect", even if the imperfect elements of their lives are usually some form of cliche like societal oppression and being non-passing. Some artists draw trans (and trans coded, if you buy that) characters with features that make them distinct from regular women/men. Unless you mean media needs to feature more MTFs that resemble hulking gorillas because that kind of reality needs representation too
>if you watch the show, her resolve and her desires are consistent and deep enough to qualify as the most genuine of trans characters
It's been awhile since I've seen the show but little about Alice as a character ever came off as deep. The bit about having feelings for a man and transitioning in order to court them is another one of those weird stereotypes people buy into
>Pleakley from Lilo and Stitch
Remember that episode where Pleakley's parents had an arranged marriage for him, and he didn't want to marry her, so he decided to marry Jumba instead, BUT he still had to get married as a guy, so Jumba decided to be the girl for their wedding? Pretty sure that episode would cause a shitstorm in [present day].
You fricking know it would. Just like how Toph would create ass blasted seethe if ATLA was being made right now and everything was the exact same in the series as it was when it was made.
Well co¿
My reason for not wanting 'trans kids' to get hopped up on drugs or transition is because that its a evil big pharma that is looming over the kids. Big Pharma makes a bunch of money doing that stuff.
Well?
You misunderstood. I don't care if Billy wants to wear a dress or if Sally wants to wear blue jeans. I care about kids permanently messing themselves up at the will of misguided/evil parents and big pharma fricking them up so they'll have life long patients to milk money from.
>kids permanently messing themselves up at the will of misguided/evil parents
How often do you think this happens? Like, assuming LGBT are a fraction of the population, and T people are a fraction of that, and T people with kids are a fraction of that, and evil T people are a fraction of that, what is that, like winning the Powerball of bad parents?
Often enough sadly. There are evil parents who will gladly sell their kid for an ounce of attention. Its no different then kid/teen celebs whose parents pimp them out to Hollywood.
>Its no different then kid/teen celebs whose parents pimp them out to Hollywood.
So how come that isn't part of the daily discourse of every website on the internet? It's obviously more prominent. Could it be because it doesn't make straight guys feel weird in their peepees?
I like the moment you lot usually go from "it isn't happening" to "okay, it's happening, but how often?" It being able to happen is a problem.
Most of the time, when a "trans" character is drawn to be appealing, the illustrator just makes it a woman. Occasionally you'll get a masculine face, but it follows a woman's anatomy. So, drawing lesbians means that the illustrator gets to draw two women cuddling. I really do hate to borrow terms from third wave feminists, but can't think of a better one for this: it's all for the "male gaze."
Look, nobody trans wants to see them represented wants trans characters drawn like Lou Ferrigno or an ugly squarejawed hon. Can you imagine how much transphobia they'd be displaying by not illustrating them as indistinguishable from a soft uwu pretty anime girl?
>kids die to guns every day, but the one that makes my peepee feel weird is the much bigger problem!
I mean if this is the only nation where it regularly happens it’s probably because there’s no way to prevent it
Frequently.
>FAUX news
Woooowwww
Certified Reddit moment.
Sorry that I don't hold much sway on Fox News telling the truth about an LGBT issue, just like I wouldn't trust CNN to tell me the truth about Donald Trump.
I think a parent accepting their kids is a better outcome than the alternative, one of my best friends was kicked out of his house by his step-dad for being gay at 16. He lived with our other friend working at mcds to pay them something because he was so embarrassed that he had to live there.
>You can either let your kids get their genitals get mutilated and groomed by fetishists, or kick them out. There's literally no other option!
>you can either accept your kids as they are or not
Sorry you can't read though
I'll take the third path of loving my kid enough to not mutilate him or encourage him to, thank you.
I'm sorry your parents didn't care enough.
"guy"'s a board schizo. He obsesses over John K and thinks Homestuck/Helluva Boss ripped him off, then hides behind "I'm Catholic/Italian."
>I'll take the third path of loving my kid enough to not mutilate him or encourage him to, thank you.
>I'm sorry your parents didn't care enough.
I'm straight and my parents were fine, you don't have to encourage them to mutilate themselves as long as you accept them as they are.
(X)
Doctors literally tell parents that their child will kill themselves if they don't transition them.
Provide evidence.
Well well well?
The real joke is that the guy who made this comic drew "cub" porn.
I don't like big pharma turning kids into a class of people who will constantly need medication. Sorry if that offends you I guess.
>a class of people who will constantly need medication
You mean everyone, since hating your job means you have ADHD now?
Pretty much yeah.
Transgender surgeries and stuff is a billion dollar business tho.
>our descendants
you mean the ones you made with your non-functioning mutilated genitals? lmao.
I'm against elective surgery being done on minors, hormone blockers amd whatever I could care less. Trans people deserve to live but they for sure have a mental illness. At what poin5 are we going to accept people who suffer from BIID and let them cut their arms off because of their own dismorphia?
>you're just against the existence of trans people
he ain't wrong. I would prefer if this mental illness was eradicated rather than enabled.
Of course, all of this becomes moot when dealing with Europe.
Pic very related
(you lot will never know the greatest superhero comic from Italy, the Rat-Man)
Explain, I don't speak linguini
Cinzia is a supporting character from Rat-man, which was originally a superhero parody.
She's a not-really-passing transexual prostitute initially in-love with the main character.
She's a fun character, popular enough she got her own "secret origin" graphic novel.
Pic Related is the begin of that, where she doesn't get hired because the name on her identity card is still "Paul". They hire the juggler dwarf on the spot instead.
Basically nobody had any issue with her, her character or the graphic novel written by a HETEROSEXUAL MARRIED CATHOLIC WHITE GUY, including trans, prostitutes, trans prostitutes and the psychos of the politically-involved LGBTXYZ associations(that's likely because they aren't capable of sequential reading comprehension)
have a shitty google translation
>Europoors pretending to be relevant
>Unique ID didn't go up
samegayging? Probable.
Remember when Cinemaphile created a trans super hero? Motion I think her name was? Of course you don’t I’ve been here too long
>somebody kill me
No one remembers cause no one cares about /coc/ nowadays.
>/coc/
What are they even up to now?
Tell me about her.
https://the-conservatory.fandom.com/wiki/Motion
>https://the-conservatory.fandom.com/wiki/Motion
Bless you anon and good fortune in your future!
>2013
>2014
But wait, I was told the LGBT only appeared post 2016.
Sounds like you listen to left-wing morons who have no idea what their political opponents are saying.
The left can't meme.
Odd...I remember it only being called the lgb until like 2010...
I remember "gay" being the catchall for homosexuality around the Obama election.
Sounds like you listen to right-wing morons who have no idea what their political opponents are saying
Streams of trannies were generating out of places like the Homestuck community in those years. As well as males losing their minds from Tumblr feminism that became big in 2012, amongst other sources of that time.
I don't think there's a single good trans character in any american comic or cartoon.
anyway, i think Remy Boydell handles transgirl protagonists well, they're all melodramatic just like me fr
what's the best form of Black Propaganda? the best form of streissand effect-ing trans people?
it's easy, turn "the based transphobes" into a bunch of teenagers who just parrot the same two or three phrases, post boring wojak edits for only themselves, and manage to get themselves banned and removed from every online space for being petulant
Here's a better question Cinemaphile:
How would you write a Chud character sympathetically? Assuming they're not a full on Nazi and just has edgy leanings and no problem dabbing on Idpol and trolling progressives.
Can they be done well?
This comic
used to have the main troon kid's dad as a recurring character constantly opposing the creator's child-persona's bullshit. He stopped showing up when too many people were sympathizing with his portrayal since he was a straight man (no pun intended) to the creator's batshit insane world.
>chud
Stop pretending that this nothing-word means anything.
You can smell the visible posting fecal stench of Chuds a mile away, whereas you can only tell if someone online is a troon if they come out openly with it.
You will never be a woman.
Aww, wittle chudcel is so mindbroken their automated NPC replies kicked in. Like a screensaver for dumbasses.
You're trying waaaay too hard to be scathing. Don't overcompensate.
t. Chud
>religion is viewed as ok only when it isn't "forced on" people
>pronouns and shit are just expected to be universally accepted by everyone and no length of strongarming people into playing along is considered excessive
Explain this shit to me, Cinemaphile.
have you noticed that the people who get more butthurt about pronoun usage online these days are the ones that go
>SHE
>>>she
every single time you supposedly use the "correct" ones?
None of this answers my question.
I am fine with regular he/she, or they pronouns if someone feels a certain way.
I'm not going to memorize your ultra special snowflake pronouns if you ask to be called Xi/Xis/Wulfself/Fey/Fir every sentence.
nobody irl uses neopronouns anyway and the very very few people who attempt to are an autistic minority of a minority, you will realistically never, ever hear anyone ask you to call them that and if they do, you will basically be humoring an autistic person
You people are fricking obsessed and meltdown over the idea of doing the basic courtesy of politeness when addressing other people
Forcing everyone into your fetish roleplay isn't "basic courtesy."
Okay, m’am. Don’t get your panties in a twist. I know you’re hormonal but try to stay calm like a normal person.
>I'm not mad and want to be called a woman, you are!
How's HRT, homosexual?
Sister please, calm down.
Didn't answer my question.
NNNOOO I DON'T WANT TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT I WANT TO EAT WITH MY HANDS AND SHIT MY PANTS AT WORK NNNOOO
You're a grown-ass man, not my 8 y/o nephew who still believes in Santa.
I'm not obligated to larp with you out of "politeness".
If you insist being an butthole why do you act surprised when everyone treats you as such?
Meant for
No, it's rude to be a crossdressing degenerate in public, and even more rude to demand people refer to you by the objectively incorrect sex while doing so.
NNNOOO I DON'T WANT TO WEAR PROFESSIONAL ATTIRE, I WANT TO HAVE NO SHIRT AND NO SHOES NNNOOO
Dress codes are bullshit
I agree with that. Whether school or work, all "professionalism" is only for the benefit of big business.
>Go to another country
>Learn they have seperate language and customs as you, and to fit into society you're expected to learn it to be respectful
>WAAAAAH THIS IS RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION
Language changes. Are you going to throw a shitfit in non-english countries learning words have gendered articles and forms?
When did anon mention going to another country? Even if that were the case, wouldn't your argument basically state that "TERFs" are right?
False equivalence.
Speaking another language entails communicating same concepts in a different form, not straight-up lying.
Your conception of "Lying" is entirely based on the notion that concepts are universal. Concepts thru language are not the same, some don't have the words for certain ideas (Read about tribes without a word for Blue). There's japanese speech that doesn't refer to gendered pronouns but heavily ordinated on class and social status, to the point it displaces gender distinguishing in the listener's mind. We don't have something to that degree in english so to use non-honorifics so you're basically lying when talking without them.
Frankfurt school of thinking was a mistake.
I just watched the Incredibles 1 and 2 yesterday. Incredible (heh) how much better the first movie is compared to the second.
It's funny you chudcel tards keep repeating this, when they were literally the first group to ever REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE about Idpol and demand we shutup about feminism and language problems to get back to daddy Mao already.
"Male" and "female" are rather straight-forward and 1% birth defects being a thing doesn't really change it.
>straight people: ugh, what's the big deal with gendering people the way they prefer?
>meanwhile, this is the greatest insult you can say to a straight guy
Yes anon.
You call man "a girl" to attack his masculinity because he's, in fact, a man.
That's the whole point.
And straight people throw a hissy fit if you get their pronouns wrong. That's the whole point.
Straight people don't really care, and we certainly don't threaten to kill ourselves when it happens.
Imagine if people did it every day, all the time. Everywhere you go, people are saying calling you a woman, and you keep telling people "no, I have peepee! Peepee big!" And people just keep talking about your bloody vegana.
That would never happen, because ordinary people do not give a single shit about genitals, for cis or trans. Only trannies obsess about them and who has them.
You're doing it right now.
>Imagine if people did it every day, all the time
Well, yeah, calling me the wrong thing would be pretty silly. That's why I don't play along with it when trannies ask me to do it to them.
Like, the difference between your "imagine if" shit is that in your turnabout, the people are deliberately lying. I have a girthy wiener. I'm not going to be bothered if someone calls me a woman, I'm going to wonder what's up with them.
>I have a girthy wiener.
Proof? Ahahaha
Ask your mother.
She said it'd be best if I had a look for myself.
>I have a girthy wiener.
Sure thing, baby dick.
>And straight people throw a hissy fit if you get their pronouns wrong.
No, because clearly you're the moron in that situation, the same way people would react if you called the sky green.
>https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=17970
>Be from insane future world
>Call the sky some madeup color and insist it's that instead of obviously green
Look at this stupidass and laugh.
Just like you’re an butthole in a situation where you start whining about how being forced to use other people’s preferred pronouns is tyranny 1984 cancel culture
>being forced to
God I'm glad that I'm not american.
>being forced to
God I'm glad that I'm not British.
Yes, compelled speech is an absurdist level of tyranny, and should always be met with the most extreme violence humanly possible.
Listen, miss, I'm sure your period or your estrogen or whatever is bothering you, but please get control of your feminine emotions.
People confused me as a girl growing up, leading to inspiring the ambiguity of Frisk and other aspects of Homestuck/Undertale culture which my best friend worked on.
I'm a man, just a type of man who's good at being friends with girls.
Thank you for your blogpost, namegay. We all appreciate it.
Keep screeching, it only supports my story.
Your story that we're all very interested to hear. Go on, tell us some more about your life. That's why we're all here anyway.
Go play Undertale then.
guy I'm going to put you in my Homestuck fancomic as an inspire and you're going to like it
>I made you into an ugly wojak therefore I win!
Okay Dante.
In my setting:
>You have advanced science to transition and match your gender identity, and become part of the special transitioned club where everyone is the sex they want down to the chromosomes and genetics
>Old fashion surgery Trans people are seen as a historical oddity, to mentally ill if pursuing that way still today
>There are also those that seek same-gender transitions to other identities who are seen as just plain insane by the T+ populace and persecuted as a minority
>Otherkin are accepted trans-close travelers but full on Furries are just sexual seen as deviants they loathe to accept
>The LGB have largely become hostile towards the T because their puritan history has made them aggressive towards any sexuality to religious levels
Are femboys accepted?
Begrudgingly. They're seen as very close to the same-gender transition people, but are tolerated as long as they don't seek genetic surgery.
Reminder.
Crossdressing =/= trans.
That's for my femboys and traps out there
I hate how they’re always “lesbians”.
Don't worry Gwen tops Miles with her big girl dick.
This annoys me more IRL than it does in fiction. 90% of the trans people I know are straight guys with pink hair.
sometimes i think this website is only trans people now and that everyone else moved on
That's a very silly thing to think.
the moderation are all trannies, but Cinemaphile has the most troony users out of any board including /tttt/
Okay, but really, why is it always MtF? It's like FtM trans don't even matter.
The irony is that from my experience FtM tend to be cooler people.
Because why the frick would a women willingly want to be a man. If I was a girl with who wanted to be a man I’d just tomboymaxxx
Are there female equivalents to femboys?
I want to see girls who take male hormones just to become gigabuff girls.
You're right anon. I'd like to see a FTM character. FTMs are hated on /lgbt/ and more or less irl too because men as a whole are hated by society.
Men and women both have issues and at this rate we're on a collision course to shit getting really fricked up.
Because men are brain damaged
Wait, in this context are you saying Men (including MTF) are brain damaged, or are you saying that Men (including FTM) are brain damaged?
Look, this is Cinemaphile and I can see you having either take, and those both have wildly different implications.
Men
>MTF
These are men
>FTM
These are women
Hope that helps
FTM will never be women.
FTM are women that want to be men. They already are women.
Look at Buck Angel and say that's a woman.
That's a woman.
Has a vegana, sex is female. Buck Angel is a woman by my definition. I'd probably politely call him a him, but he's not actually a man in any meaningful sense. What makes someone a man or woman to you?
Pooners are women you moron.
>FTM will never be women again.
FTFY
Okay, so in this case
saying men are brain damaged means that we never see FTM is because they are not the ones with brain damage and only the ones WITH brain damage should ever be seen.
I think it's more like the ones with brain damage (men) demand to be seen more, and are more likely to be in positions to make those decisions (because they're men).
I think a lot of it is also the stigmatization of men doing things that are seen as "girly". If a man puts on girl's clothes, it's cross dressing. BUT if a woman puts on men's clothes, it's seen as normal.
If we normalized the idea of men dressing up, I'd bet there would be a large drop in MTF. Inversely, I'm willing to bet that if the idea of women wearing pants once again became frowned upon, we would see an increase in FTM.
That's part of it too.
>If we normalized the idea of men dressing up, I'd bet there would be a large drop in MTF. Inversely, I'm willing to bet that if the idea of women wearing pants once again became frowned upon, we would see an increase in FTM.
Definitely. I think it's best to keep advocating for accepting men acting outside expected gender roles.
People born male are brain damaged that's why they're most likely to transition
Surprised the thread lasted as long as it did. Ah well. I hope one day to see a good trans character.
What is the POINT of a trans character? Draw a female character and say they used to be a dude...then what? What was the point? They will continue to just be a female character from the rest of the series. It's like somebody shows up and goes "I'm GAY!!", and everybody else goes "Yeah? So what? Get to work. We've got stuff to do."
>What is the point of x
Lol nice logic moron.
You ridicule...but have no answer. Do better, try harder. Answer the question. If you can't then at least concede my point like a mature adult.
I notice how you ignored my post anon.
What's wrong with doing a trans story arc?
My suggestion was one should do a character having a long struggle coming with their trans identity with the other on the side, and at the end just have another one go 'Oh btw I'm trans' and walk away pointing out how pointless the entire story was.
>Do it ironically by doing the exact same thing you're making fun of!
nta but that's moronic.
I've seen that go remarkably, unintendedly well, to the annoyance of the person that did it. Something that was intended as satire and sarcasm ended up being praised by the people it was trying to lampoon.
That happens a lot (Simpsons, "Smells Like Teen Spirit," Watchmen) because good satire understands their subject, so recreating it without prefacing their point to the audience and demonstrating it just add an example to the pile, albeit a somewhat well-constructed one.
David Chappelle literally quit his show over this.
I thought he quit his show because the network execs started dictating to him what he would cover, instead of continuing to let him do what made his show successful in the first place...probably went something like "Oh, no, Dave...you can't make fun of THOSE people. Here, here's a list of acceptable targets."
No I mean he literally walked off stage because one white guy was laughing at his jokes and it's clear that he was laughing at him, not with him and it was perpetuating the racist shit Chappelle was making fun of. That's what he said after quitting his show.
Black people are so fragile
The ones indoctrinated by liberal whites to be perpetual victims are.
Nah they're just inherently fragile. It comes from having a room temp IQ.
Maybe. I wouldn't know. Black, not liberal, 115 iq.
>it's clear that he was laughing at him, not with him
Dave seems like a good judge of character, so he's probably right. But it is possible the guy just had an awkward laugh or something. I never fully trust people claiming to know what's going on in somebody else's head.
No doubt some percentage of the audience was laughing at him that way though, just talking about the one guy. I wonder if he knows Dave is talking about him specifically, and if he really was thinking that while laughing. I'd feel really bad either way.
>Hello Alan Moore
>No.. not again..
My bad, I accidentally tagged you into my reply with the other anon.
Why does any character have any features? Why aren't they just emotionless blobs?
Stories can be fun. Struggles and arcs give people thinks to think about. You can make Trans characters that are only trans in mention, or have problems related to their condition like you can with anything. Hell why not make both and put them side by side to see how they compare.
Finally, an answer. Thank you. But should you make it the focus of the entire story? Like, an army from another dimension is killing and eating everyone in the city. How does Carlos' journey into Carla have any relevance to the crisis?
What is your story about?
If it's about a Trans person struggle, it should obviously be the entire focus.
If it's about LGBT people and their lives, maybe make it 25%. If it's about LGBT superheroes leave it around 10%.
If it's a story about superheroes and aliens and armies from another dimension, maybe 0-1%.
Just make things you want to make and tell whatever genre stories you want. There's no obligation beyond that.
It should be stated you can still do "A trans person's struggle" with 100% focus set with superheroes and armies in the background, why not. You just have to know what you want to write.
I honestly don't know what people think they're going to gain by arguing with those who decided that "objective truth" isn't even a thing.
Maybe this is how this troony movement got catapulted into the mainstream in the first place: the mere act of trying to argue to them instead of just turning 360 and walking away is what got credence to their ideas.
>Dude just ignore it and it'll go away!
No, that causes them to manufacture their own hatedom.
>Dude just ignore it and it'll go away
Unironically the only reason why this never works is because you can't convince every single person to do so.
How's the fifth grade going?
Again, even if somehow they do get completely ignored, they just invent hatedom anyway. You're expecting a bunch of egocentric liars to be honest about their experiences.
Don't lecture others when you cannot even get pomo 101 right
>lecture
My point is that trying to "lecture" you morons is literally useless.
Yeah, when your lecturing is literally 'Facts don't care about your feelings' no one gives a shit what you has to say.
Well, you don't, that's for sure.
>Facts don't care about your feelings
>>I DON'T CARE!!!
t. Redditor
This shit is even more played out than attack helicopter jokes at this point.
...there are jokes about attack helicopters? Do any mention the show Airwolf?
>Wearing a Kippah
This was made by a /misc/ack as a joke, wasn't it?
Not that anon, but...The sign of a sane adult is the ability to accept reality. It would seem people mad about facts should be considered..."troubled" on a fundamental level.
What's reality?
9/10ths of the planet believes in magical deities fairytails and these people actively run our businesses and government. We only throw people in sickhouses if they cannot work in factories.
If you believe the Earth is flat and Superman created mankind 6000 years ago, you're fine as long as you believe that on your lunch break.
>unironically proves
>pronouns and shit are just expected to be universally accepted by everyone and no length of strongarming people into playing along is considered excessive
Explain this shit to me, Cinemaphile. right
Religions generally don't have any requirements from other people. You can pray or do your rituals but don't demand much.
All transgender rituals require is using the right pronoun and not murdering the person, while leaving them alone. Outside that no one cares what's in your crotch.
>while leaving them alone.
...And shutting up when they impose on women's spaces. And go after children. And try to shame you for not playing along in their roleplay. And including themselves in a month-long celebration of homosexuality that's being funded by governments across the US....
>And shutting up when they impose on women's spaces. And go after children. And try to shame you for not playing along in their roleplay.
But enough about christianity and Islam
Islam doesn't, islamists do.
I'm sure people in palestine want to get rid of Mullah dickbag dictators just as much as athiests do.
>I'm sure people in palestine want to get rid of Mullah dickbag dictators just as much as athiests do.
I wish that were the case, but it's not true. On average, they support dickbag dictators enforcing Islam's rules on people more than atheists do.
>Call out trannies acting deplorable
>B-B-BUT CHRISTIANS!
I want to kill the programmer in charge of you NPCs because you always go for the same handful of deflections.
christians sold out the White race over a thousand years ago by bending their knees to the god of the israelites.
>In a desperate effort to try to win an argument, anon reveals that the LARPagans are, in fact, leftypol troons, to the surprise of nobody.
Facts
>Trans people want to use a woman's shelter to not be murdered
>Christians want to shut down said woman's shelter
>Trans people want the right to perform surgery on their body
>Christians want to ban rights on woman's surgery and medical treatments
>Trans folk want kids the option to get gendercare help so they don't kill themselves
>Christians want to take kids to priests to tell them they're freaks and sinners that will burn in hell unless they conform to 2000 year old insane laws that will make them so miserable they'll kill themselves
>While shutting down mental healthcare everywhere
I'd rather a group that intrudes to help people than actively trying to kill everyone.
First point: trans aren't being hunted and murdered for kicks. Trans are picking up drunk dudes and getting murdered when the guy is faced with a dick. At least, that's what happens in the black community. I imagine it's pretty similar elsewhere. If they wouldn't try to take advantage of impaired men and deceive people, they wouldn't get killed.
>Briana Ghey was murdered by her classmates for just existing.
>Jacob Williamson was murdered for just existing.
In just 2021 60 people were killed for just being who they were without the gay panic bs. But even gay men have also been killed for just existing and living their lives like Mathew Shepherd was.
Now do the christian school shot up by one of you xers
1 shooting out of dozens of mass shootings involving men killing women it's not even close
Yeah but the government covered up that shooting xister.
>Briana Ghey
>Ghey
Yeah, I'm sure that was the entire story. Shut the frick up.
He was killed for grooming children.
Nice martyr figure you got there.
gee, how did I guess that was the case?
Helping people get medical treatment isn't grooming.
>Convincing emotionally-unstable youth to indulge in your own fetish community while hooking them up with drugs isn't "grooming"
What fetish community?
Autogynephilia is a fetish.
>Hmmm am I going to trust multiple decade's worth of medical protocol in regards to trans people or a crackpot sexologist?
>or a crackpot sexologist?
I'll choose to NOT believe John Money, thank you.
see
they aren't experts, their "protocol" is based on nothing objective, and all funding comes from the same people profiting off transing children.
Giving children an artificially induced hormone imbalance because you mistakenly believe it will turn them into the opposite sex instead of just ruining their development is not medical treatment, it's medical malpractice at best, and is more accurately a crime against humanity.
Mutilation isn't "treatment".
Maybe you'd consider it mutilation if it happened to your body, but it's not happening to your body.
Provide evidence that Ghey was grooming kids into an autogynephilia community. Saying that transgender equals autogynephilia doesn't count as evidence, provide evidence that specifically links Ghey helping kids to sexual fetishism.
>Saying that transgender equals autogynephilia doesn't count as evidence
"Tell me what 2+2 is and don't say 4"
Autogynephilia and transgenderism are two different things, so unless you have evidence that Ghey was specifically pushing kids into AGP, you have no evidence of any sexual component.
They really aren't, but assuming they are then the difference would only really be brought up by troons when disowning the deviants within their community (most of them), in order to push the blame for their hedonism, predatory, and aggressive tendencies. Trannies aren't really interested in trying to root out their "bad members" (outside of the occasional witch hunt) that have autogynephilia since that means policing what counts as a "real transgender," which is a can of worms none of them want to seriously open since it involves asking hard questions about identity that they have no answer to.
Most transgender people either deny that AGP exists entirely or refuse to discuss it seriously because they believe that acknowledging any complications or problems in their community is just giving ammunition to the people who want them all gone. I think that this is stupid and will only harm the community in the long run.
>MOST
appeal to majority. You have no way of proving that.
If I was appealing to majority I would be saying that I agree with what I'm claiming the majority to be doing, when I'm doing the opposite.
>safely and legally
Can you not read?
>NO YOU DONT UNDERSTAND STERILIZING CHILDREN IS LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA
lol
>caligays vote for this
>starts to negatively effect their own life
>move to texas
>vote the exact same way they did in califailia
Grooming isn't helping alt kids feel accepted when society as a whole and their families reject them.
You can be accepted without getting hooked on drugs you know. There's plenty of PSAs that state that kind of thing.
Grooming is what put them against the rest of civilized society and their own families in the first place, it's classic cult behavior, it's not some huge coincidence the homosexual groomer community always tells kids "you don't need them, we're your new family".
After they've been ostracized and kicked out of households.
>Run to us! Don't tell your family or else you'll get in trouble!
Literal abusive-relationship dialogue.
Except its usually after they've told them. Everyone I've met and all the kids in shelters have been turned away from their homes for being born gay or feeling nb or trans.
>feeling nb
Meme
I mean that these kids were questioning it and hadn't even settled on trans they didn't feel comfortable with who they were and their parents abandoned them
Source. Being kicked out for being gay makes sense. Being kicked out for being trans makes sense. Being kick out for being spicy straight does not.
It's more likely "parents get into fights with me over my new non-binary, they/them identity and won't humor me, so I have to run away."
>More than half of homeless LGBTQ youths say they have been forced ontothe streets because of hostility or abuse from parents over theirgender identity or sexual orientation, providers told USA TODAY.
>LGBTQ+youth primarily experience homelessness due to family rejection. We know that that's the primary theme," saidJosh Egeland, program manager of David’s Place, a drop-in center for homeless LGBTQ youths in Dayton, Ohio.
>hostility or abuse from parents
>family rejection
Exactly what I said. The degree of actual hostility can vary.
We're talking specifically about "enbys", the meme straights.
well yeah enby has nothing to do with sexual preference.
Do you, by any chance, identify as non-binary or use alternative pronouns without being FtM or MtF trans?
I'm nonbinary yeah. I don't care if someone uses gendered pronouns at me. I also find both men and women attractive.
Cringe funny.
No you aren't.
Okay.
Right. A spicy straight. Unsurprising.
Thread is almost dead so you might not have time to talk about this much, but if you don't mind me asking - what do you mean when you say you're nonbinary? What makes you not a man or not a woman? I imagine it's "I don't identify as either one," but I don't fully understand what that means. What is it about yourself that you feel makes you non-binary?
I don't want to conform to the gender roles society has laid out for me. MTF and FTM go hyper feminine or hyper masculine, if you sit back and notice the genuine ones. Like say Blaire White and Buck Angel. I prefer to be more neutral.
Okay.
>I don't want to conform to the gender roles society has laid out for me.
Ironically enough by calling yourself non-binary you are exactly conforming them. You're saying you're not masculine enough to be male and not feminine enough to be female, given the gender roles male and female the validity you claim to oppose.
Okay.
This is what I hate about the LGBT shit. I'm a guy that has some feminine stereotypes in my mannerisms. Beforey the big push for this pharma shit, a lot of people just treated me as odd/metro, but nobody wanted to rope me into their activism. After around 2012 or whenever though, a switch flipped in society, and people took "I'm into art" to mean "I like dick" somehow, with strangers at dove bars insisting afterwards I "just come out." It's annoying.
>I don't want to conform to the gender roles society has laid out for me.
I see. Neither do I, but I don't see how that makes me less of a man. Seems like it's just a label for a certain type of expression/personality more than anything.
Do you anon. I don't know what else you want me to say. I'm not hurting anyone and I go about my day as any other terminally online moron.
I'm just curious, not saying you're hurting anyone. Just fascinated by the topic. Have a good day anon.
Back in the ancient times of 2018, humanity lost the knowledge of what a woman is. Since nobody could remember what a woman is, nobody could tell what made a man different from a woman. Therefore it isn't possible to identity as a man or a woman, because nobody knows what those things are anymore.
>Back in the ancient times of 2018
You joke but 2018 does feel like 200 years ago in Internet years.
I still have to remind people on here about Gamergate.
That's to say nothing of the archeological lecturing regarding the ancient topic of 2000s internet animation.
Did you, by chance, leave your home because your parents didn't respect your feefees?
I have never seen someone who isn't nonbinary defend nonbinary (on Cinemaphile)
Nobody is born a sodomite, moron.
>after
No, children do not come up with this shit on their own.
Children don't come up with worshiping sky daddy either on their own but that kind of 'grooming' is okay and based even right fellow christbro?
Yes, Christianity is good, and homosexualry is bad.
Hope that clears everything up.
Ah so its okay when I do it but not when others do it. Thanks for clearing that up. Like the moralgays who cry muh kids but then want to marry 12 year olds like that republican state senator in Missouri. You don't give a frick about kids, you only care if they are apart of your team. That's it.
What you do is bad and evil and you should be killed for it as soon as possible.
You know on average most Christians don't want to mutilate their children's genitals or ruin their bodies through puberty blockers. inb4 "muh priests," yes, people who get blitzed all over the media when they're pedophiles should be called out for it, we want that to consistently apply to the trans community as well.
Telling a child that if they do not conform to this thousand year old tome written by israelites or else they will burn forever in a lake of fire and be raped by demons is totally okay and wont' damage a child's psyche.
>The LARPagan tries to pull "muh israelites" while defending a modern day commodity to get children addicted to a lifetime of treatment from Big Pharma
At least pretend to be a /misc/ack right!
>Larpagan
I'm an atheist christcuck. I've experienced your shitty religion first hand. I talk from experience.
Christianity has given us the entirety of western canon while lgbt garbage only made existing media worse for the last 20 years
That was the Greeks who worshiped White deities like Zeus and the Romans who worshiped White deities like Mars.
>grown men being gay is wrong
>protecting actual pedophiles intl the church is okay
Make it make sense
actual pedophiles intl the church is okay
Who is arguing that?
The christ anon itt
Quote him saying that.
Quote him yourself I'm not your secretary can't potato
>Quote him yourself
I asked YOU who the frick was arguing that strawman. Not my fault if you can't back up your shit.
Not my fault you're untouchable and lonely
>Make strawman
it
>No u!
>>...What?
>Ad hom
2/10
Nice samegayging.
Haha you wish I'm in on a road trip looking at threads, I'm just here to call fans like you names
The Catholic, Mormon and Evangelical churches that do that.
No, homosexuals should be violently purged from every area of society, including churches.
Depends on the situation. Teaching your kid a radical form of religion is bad. But in general, raising your kid under some religion is less harmful. Especially as religion is practiced in most Western countries these days.
Do you have ANY argument besides "but whatabout muh religion" redditgay?
Yes they do.
>like Mathew Shepherd was.
lol
lmao
he was literally just killed in a mugging and the gay community created a false narrative of gay bashing as a scare tactic
people want to use a woman's shelter to not be murdered
You are a selfish man imposing himself on spaces filled with emotionally vulnerable women that are often homeless, drug-addicted, abused, etc. Their safety and well-being come before your selfishness. Use a men's shelter.
want to shut down said woman's shelter
Okay. So you're just typing a fictional allegory. Got it.
people want the right to perform surgery on their body
You don't just want surgery. You want want to be affirmed by your community as the opposite gender, and clear these surgeries for minors that shouldn't have any legal standing on what to do with their body.
want to ban rights on woman's surgery and medical treatments
Wow, more bullshit.
folk want kids the option to get gendercare help so they don't kill themselves
Puberty blockers are insane and dangerous, and completely destroy a person's body for the rest of their life.
want
Okay, I'm done reading your shit.
>Use a men's shelter.
the evilest smug smirk does not compare to this statement
Look, if anon was going to make literal fiction as an argument every-other line, I'm okay with slipping in one sentence of satire.
>use a men shelter
you mean the thing that does not exist
>I'd rather a group that intrudes to help people
That is the justification that everyone uses
Its always wrong
>Using those diseases as a counterargument is as silly as trying to say that humans are born with one arm and then pointing to people whom lose their limbs in workplace accidents
I don't see your point here. Someone can get their arm cut off, or born without it thru genes. Why shouldn't either get specific help to deal with it?
I like how antis constantly spout about muh truth and adherence to reality, and when shown Brain malformations "NUH UH."
Have you ever heard of the Ship of Theseus?
The point is if a male body can product female presentations, as in lactation or a female gaining testerone thru a man's thyroid gland, than how are something like brainwaves or thoughts exempt? At that point you're just conceding "Well parts of their brain may be the opposite sex and their psyche may be too but they're just still male because, Idunno I decided it" which is feeding into the transgender arguement.
>I don't see your point here.
Then you're stupid.
>Why shouldn't either get specific help to deal with it?
You're deliberately being obtuse to avoid the argument, hence you're starting down there instead of quoting the line right before it. You deliberately skipped it to pretend like the point wasn't explained to you:
>those irregularities are exceptions brought about by outside forces to the body.
...With regards to trying to rule out that genetics can't be determined because of cancer and AIDs.
Also, nice job redditspacing, migrant homosexual, and linking the wrong reply.
>Have you ever heard of the Ship of Theseus?
That is... no... no... shut the frick up you nauseating dipshit. You can't Ship of Theseus a human body... you stupid twat...
No... pumping yourself full of testosterone/estrogen will not overwrite your genetics anymore than installing a new operating system will change your hard drive/motherboard.
This was painfully ESL to read.
>It's not like you can scan a brain and tell someone if they're trans or not (you can predict it, but it's not guaranteed).
Researchers at have developed a machine-learning system they claim can predict a person's gender leaning with accuracy. The fact that there isn't a perfect 'male' or 'female' brain lends some nuance here, but I bring up the ship of Thebes because people base things off a generality. The issue about gender identity is that it's zero-sum in consciousness, while the biological constraints behind it are incredibly inconsequential and tiny in the span of the whole brain.
It's kind of like how an anatomical tweak the size of a grain of sand can make a person illiterate or blind so we consider that person, per functionality, illiterate or blind. We don't go "Well 99.999% the rest of your brain looks kinda SIGHT-Y or good for reading, so you're therefore not."
That's funny because Jesus loved to hang out with prostitutes, harlots and leppers that were social pariahs.
Ah, so you're literally just calling all transfolk AGPs.
>Researchers at have developed a machine-learning system they claim can predict a person's gender leaning with accuracy.
Yes, but not 100% of the time. Fun fact, you can also predict a gay person's sexuality by looking at their face. Along with a lot of other things.
Even a male with a female gender identity still has a male brain though. Your sex isn't determined by how you think. It just so happens that males can identify as women. Easily now, considering how meaningless a label woman becomes when you believe in this stuff.
Well being gay/straight and your sexuality is a spectrum. So let's say maybe gender is, sure why not. You can have a weather forecast that maybe predicts snow 95% of the time and you go out but it's just cold snowish rain.
Obviously we'll never reach the hard consensus on whether someone has a 'trans enough' brain since that involves determining absolutes. I don't believe we should, and nor should it be so black and white to just say people mentally are just men/woman "Because chromosomes", since that tells us nothing about how they think, identify or go about themselves.
>Even a male with a female gender identity still has a male brain though
Again, generalities. Them having a male brain means what, they're good at math? What if they're terrible at math and better at literature and female topics/brained trends. Who decides?
Frankly I agree that there is no direct 'male/female' brain but there are also shades of perception that have to do with how the brain develops and defining the relationship between the two isn't really a task as easy as either side would like to paint it as.
>Well being gay/straight and your sexuality is a spectrum
Don't project your literal homosexualry onto the rest of us.
>Them having a male brain means what, they're good at math?
It only means that the brain is a male's brain. If their sex is male, then whatever brain they have is male. Simple as.
>It's kind of like how an anatomical tweak the size of a grain of sand can make a person illiterate or blind so we consider that person, per functionality, illiterate or blind. We don't go "Well 99.999% the rest of your brain looks kinda SIGHT-Y or good for reading, so you're therefore not."
The issue with BOTH sides of the debate is that gender identity has no functionality whatsoever, despite righties and TERFs wanting it for patriarchy and trannies wanting it for pretty princess anime catgirl LARP.
>t. tankie
I agree that the whole concept of gender identity has big issues and focusing on it so much ends up causing more problems than it solves.
>t. tankie
You can just write "t. moron"
>despite righties and TERFs wanting it for patriarchy
Yeah, dude, the right wants to affirm gender identity so they can... have women that think they're men in charge.
> What if they're terrible at math and better at literature and female topics/brained trends
Then they're still 100% men. My point is this sort of "male brain" or "female brain" logic ends up being offensive to non-conforming people.
>Frankly I agree that there is no direct 'male/female' brain but there are also shades of perception that have to do with how the brain develops and defining the relationship between the two isn't really a task as easy as either side would like to paint it as.
Yeah, brains are complicated as frick.
>Ah, so you're literally just calling all transfolk AGPs.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that there are alternative explanations for different brain structures, and that the BSTc example has an alternative explanation.
If you interpret the research as supporting AGP theory, that's your interpretation.
Also
>folk
Why?
folx*
Thank you, that's better
>Researchers at have developed a machine-learning system they claim can predict a person's gender leaning with accuracy.
If you scanned a trans person's brain, and the machine didn't mark them as trans, would you agree with saying they're not really trans?
I would more likely say they're trans by a social metric if their gender identity is such, but don't have body dysmorphia or brain/body incongruence, and dissuade them from getting unnecessary surgery.
They can still take whatever hormones they want, hell female athletes and femboys take estrogen/teste shots for their own use.
>Redditspacing homosexual has a bad take, uses casual racism as an insult
lol
We're talking about brain scans, not facial recognition software. Everybody knows not every trans person passes.
The same ai that thinks all Asian people look the same real gotcha
All asian people look the same, and you will never pass.
Jokes on you I was born a vaguely hot woman my life's been easy
NTA, but the issue of race and AI is entirely different to gender and AI. With race, the bias of the people making it need to be considered since they're usually defaulting human proportions on their own race, so stuff like Asians looking the same or black people looking like gorillas is a byproduct of them not studying the common facial structures of other races.
Once you do have races understood, though, then you can split it up by gender. So, an AI can see a white male and white female just fine, but categorically mess up all Asians of either gender because it doesn't know what an "Asian" face looks like.
>Have you ever heard of the Ship of Theseus?
Yeah. Not really the same thing.
>The point is if a male body can product female presentations
That's the thing, lactation can be a "male presentation," because male bodies can do it. I lactated during puberty.
> they're just still male because, Idunno I decided it
No, they're male because their sex is male. We're not even talking about intersex people with ambiguous genitals or unusual chromosomes. You're just saying that atypical male brain patterns makes a male a female. Similar brain structures can even be found in some cismen, remember this is about average patterns. It's not like you can scan a brain and tell someone if they're trans or not (you can predict it, but it's not guaranteed).
Hippocratic oath: Above all, do no harm. Removing perfectly fine body parts that don't place the physical health or life of the patient at risk is HARM. Mutilation, to be exact.
>WHAT IF MY BRAINWAVES ARE REALLY FEMALE?
what if you're just a mentally ill pervert?
Are you thinking of Catholics when you say "christians"? Cuz they are NOT christians.
>But enough about christianity and Islam
I'm an atheist and hate all three of you. Why do you think you should get a pass?
>Islam doesn't, islamists do.
Dude you literally just said... oh never mind, you're just repeating thought-terminating cliches without thinking.
Islam is an order of magnitude worse than Christianity in that regard. Unless you're looking at places like Uganda. Even moderate Muslims tend to have views that would be considered extreme for Western Christians.
Islam is objectively worse overall
>>And shutting up when they impose on women's spaces. And go after children. And try to shame you for not playing along in their roleplay.
But enough about Christian nationalists
Well...there's Islam. It kinda imposes itself and it's rules on everyone around it.
>all transgender rituals require is using the right pronoun
You are still forcing me to pretend.
It's literally the same "act in accordance to my feelings instead of what you consider to be truth", with difference being that you're biased in favor of one.
>religiongays just want to be left alone
>trannies go around and police people's speech
WTF i low religion now???
I like Fairytail. Frick you.
Fairytail sucks ass.
Lucy has big boobs.
Fairy Tail fricks ass.
Yes, Redditgay. Idiocracy was a documentary, magick sky daddy, Stalin did nothing wrong, yadda yadda yadda... Here's your gold kind stranger, now frick off.
So you think society should be run by a theocracy but find strange and new ideas that your homeschool didn't teach you threatening. What's new.
Transgender people biologically have the brain of a person of the opposite sex. That's not to say what society should do with that information, but they have a claim. If you were put in the body of an opposite gender, wouldn't it be factual to say that you have some discrepancies in how your mind works vs your brain?
I think you should frick off and stop being a stereotype of numale homosexuals who outsource their thinking to 14 year olds and perpetually online Reddit staff members.
>Transgender people biologically have the brain of a person of the opposite sex.
That's not true, the brain is genetically as "cis" as the rest of them. They have dimorphic thoughts believing otherwise, but do not understand what it means to be the opposite sex because they've never experienced it. That's why the "attack helicopter" jokes were so funny; they're as ridiculously unfalsifiable. Same as "otherkin" and "agekin" shit.
>That's not true, the brain is genetically as "cis" as the rest of them.
So where's your proof?
Considering there's decades on scientific research on this by now and you're using words like 'genetic brain' which shows your understanding of neuroscience is probably at a 4th grade level.
So much evidence and the ebst you brought was a jpg?
>So where's your proof?
...The fact that the brain develops with the rest of the human body, so it goes through the same genetics. That's pretty self-explanatory to anyone with a cursory understanding of biology.
>Considering there's decades on scientific research on this by now
One of John Money's victims killed himself and the other turned to drugs.
>The fact that the brain develops with the rest of the human body, so it goes through the same genetics
Betting it all on genetics is dumb. Multiple factors (like homosexuality) have a genetic component but those don't guarantee that your brain develops that way
>but those don't guarantee that your brain develops that way
You're arguing about biology. The DNA behind the cells is literally the entire argument. Anorexics aren't obese because they have a "fat brain."
>Anorexics aren't obese because they have a "fat brain."
Weight is not an innate part of identity to the degree that gender is. It's why we can categorize certain female-like patterns in male brains and vice versa, but don't make the distinction between thin and fat people
>Weight is not an innate part of identity to the degree that gender is
Anorexia is the entire exception to that. It is the same shit; a dysmorphia brought about by the mind viewing the body differently than its reality to the point where it warps the person's perception of themselves and act under their delusion.
>It's why we can categorize certain female-like patterns
There is no "female-like patterns" you fricking idiot. Stop repeating this circular-logic bullshit.
>There is no "female-like patterns" you fricking idiot.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1523888113
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2015.00037/full
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/osj/5/1/5_1_23/_article/-char/ja/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278262609002000
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053811905007603
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Simon-Baron-Cohen/publication/232430614_The_Essential_Difference_The_Truth_About_The_Male_And_Female_Brain/links/547cdb7a0cf2cfe203c1fde2/The-Essential-Difference-The-Truth-About-The-Male-And-Female-Brain.pdf
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/abs/sex-differences-in-human-brain-asymmetry-a-critical-survey/93B49551A4D139B20E39C7F2019CC57D
Take a basic BioCourse sometime, don't mistake your intellectual laziness for insight.
Nice woke studies. Seek Jesus.
Jesus is about as real as a man becoming a woman
So we're back around to "Facts don't care about your feefees", full circle. Nice concession.
They tend to hate Jesus because religion is generally against the hedonism and perversion they indulge in.
I'll read as many of those as you read (none)
Don't speak for me homosexual.
Seek Christ.
Its a sad sight to say. So many falling into larpaganism, or atheism.
Believing in magic sky man is just ad delusional as believing you can chose your gender
>tips fedora
Seek salvation before you are damned forever anon.
You will never escape samsara if you continue to believe in your false gods.
>do what I say or you'll go to this bad place only I believe in
you sure got him
NO, YOUR FAIRY TALE ISN'T REAL, MINE IS!
Not really. In some cases, but not always. Since there are so many different definitions of God, you can find ones that are reasonable. It's more reasonable to come up with an abstract concepts about something beyond our knowledge/comprehension. Whereas a man thinking he can be a woman is just denying what's already in our knowledge of physical reality. The only way you can argue for it is by playing with words and definitions, but then you just come up with meaningless labels of man/woman while the original divide between human groups still exists in reality.
>trannies caused by brain damage
>letting them mutilate themselves further, for the price of a whole new house, is the solution
can troons just admit they hate living and want everyone dead?
Less than 5% of trans people choose to get genital surgery.
Good, because that shit is horrific Frankenstein surgery. Nobody should have to dilate.
They don't care about facts, just what they read on /misc/.
so /misc/ is right be default
nice argument
then they arent trans, they are cross dressers
>Less than 5% of trans people choose to get genital surgery.
You wouldn't even be saying this if it was defensible.
"okay it's bad but it only happens sometimes" is not a reason to continue allowing it.
this is a good point
just because not everyone gets murdered means it should be legal to murder
in truth, trannies are one step away from being c**ts with their utter illogic and narcissism
suicide isnt legal just because its voluntary either, but even then theres some argument to be made for it, as long as I am not the one paying for someone else to do it
>It has also been suggested that because pedophilic offenders have also been found to have a reduced BSTc, a feminine BSTc may be a marker for paraphilias rather than transgender identity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/
>Transgender people biologically have the brain of a person of the opposite sex.
Bullshit, dude. That got debunked a LONG time ago, along with the "gay gene". Update your firmware.
>Transgender people biologically have the brain of a person of the opposite sex.
That biologically isn't possible, every single cell in a man's body is male, that's like saying men can be born with a female index finger.
>That biologically isn't possible, every single cell in a man's body is male
>I got my biology lesson from Christian science
You can tell the sex thru cells.. from the urinary tract. Outside that you're shit out of luck. Outside of that the body's organs develop through structural changes that happen as you age.
There's been literally men who end up lactating milk because biology messes up. It's ridiculous to assume the brain wouldn't.
>You can tell the sex thru cells.. from the urinary tract
Any cell with genetic material (not red blood cells for example) will show you a person's sex chromosomes. Sexual development is more complicated than just chromosomes, but you can get that at least.
>There's been literally men who end up lactating milk because biology messes up
Correct, male bodies are just capable of lactating under certain conditions. Things are more complicated than people think, but they're still 100% male bodies.
>Transgender people biologically have the brain of a person of the opposite sex.
This is a silly simplified statement and not backed up by the research. For one, it's only certain structures like
that are closer to female averages, and those structures are typically more in-between male and female averages rather than equivalent. In some cases, trans people's brains don't show those differences. It's also kind of absurd to say a male with an atypical BSTc structure has a "female brain." It's still a male brain, just one outside the average range in some regards. You can have a BSTc structure like that without being trans too.
There have also been studies showing that homosexual men have brains resembling average woman brains in some regards. I wouldn't say that gay men aren't 100% male. In fact, it would be very offensive.
I don't mean spirituality. I mean, solid, concrete biology. People are having problems accepting that. For instance, there are 5 foot nothing girly girls who believe they are physically stronger than 6 foot+ physically fit male athletes.
I've met so many women that honestly believe they're equally as physically strong as men. It's getting a little sad at this point.
I highly doubt that, this would imply you leave your home.
Most of the people who use arguements like this are insane and think children should do a cannabalism ritual to thank a zombie hippie for saving us from an evil magic snake.
Speaking of Obama, he and HIllary weren't pro gay marriage until the 11th hour, meanwhile evil racist nazi bigot homophobe Trump was for it in the 80s/90s
¿/oc/ lleW
Anything can be done well, it's all in the execution. Erica in Catherine was pretty good. You have to treat them realistically, it can't be all about "I'm so oppressed" or just people treating them like a brave angel. Erica was treated well, but still had old friends joking and groaning about it.
no
You know, when you samegay, you're supposed to do it in different posts.
>Your genetics are not some magic soul shit or essence of your being.
Correct. That's why "the female brain"/gender identity is a load of bullshit.
>which is why you get cancer and autoimmune disorders
Comparing gender dysmorphia to cancer and AIDs/HIV is a pretty bold strategy, I'll give you that, but it's not an argument either since those irregularities are exceptions brought about by outside forces to the body.
Using those diseases as a counterargument is as silly as trying to say that humans are born with one arm and then pointing to people whom lose their limbs in workplace accidents, except the latter actually happen to have some grounding in the possibility of mutations.
>neuroscientists that do brain search on the most complex organ in the human body are actually just cranks tiddling kids.
Yes, John Money was. Glad we can establish that.
>pic
Assblasted Redditgay losing an argument - starts throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks. Love to see it.
>trust le experts
troonyology makes a mockery of medical science even worse than they make a mockery of the human form.
Men can't become women. Women can't become men. Therefore I don't think transgenderism is right. That is all. Thank you for reading.
good post
That's fine then don't become trans, if you let other people live it shouldn't even be a problem for you to think about.
The moment they ask me to MA'AM them it becomes a problem.
That's a you problem not a them problem. How do you refer to an intersection person or a woman who was born with a square jaw? If you say it's whatever your best guess is for what they were born at you're just rude and shitty.
It actually is a them problem. If no one recognizes the trans woman as a trans woman he is a male. The end.
Legion of Superheroes Science Officer liason, Shvaughn Erin
Trans Men.. you will never be women.
I'm not surprised this became a /misc/lite thread. Sad to see though, it was fine until the Amerilards woke up.
Just don't make troony threads.
I'll make threads about whatever I want. Its not my fault you lot are so obsessed about trannies that you can't go a milisecond without seething over their entire existence.
Hint. LGBT people have existed forever. Cope on that as you suck down your 40th diet coke and munch on a McBurger.
so true xister
>I'm not obsessed with trannies, you are!
thread about transexuality
What did OP mean by this?
You have literally the entire social media where you can discuss them, go do it there.
>LGBT people have existed forever
Eh, more or less. Not sure about the T part depending on how you define it. Yes, gender non-conforming people have always existed, cross dressers and men wanting to be women have always existed, but the modern trans identity and the ideology behind it (identifying as a woman literally makes you one) is a recent thing.
We can get into third genders in certain cultures, but it's not directly the same. Threads dying so it's too big of a topic to go in-depth on. A lot of supposed "two-spirit" terms just mean things like "man who dresses/acts like a woman" too. In some cases, those third genders are usually a consequence of a society caring about gender roles more, to the point where men who don't fit into expected roles are put into a different category.
another eurohomosexual weeping over not being able to slobber all over mentally ill people being mentally ill
destroy europe
What is pikamee doing down there?
Also how does a three year old even know to do something like that?
troony clinics are being shut down all across Europe, the U.S. is behind the curve on banning it
I'm Brazilian.
That's unfortunate.
/pol/lites and antis cannot help themselves. It's impossible for them to be objective or maintain any distance from their obsession.
Look they've already gone into 'spam my imagefolder lookitme' /b/tard mode.
I honestly feel bad for the 1 trans person that doesn't want to force people to agree with them
Besides that hypothetical person though you all deserve to die
A vocal minority of a minority really can frick it up for everyone else. I've often wondered if the spokespersons you see in the media championing the LGBT actually hate them and want to frick them all over.
No. Most troons are bad.
Some may be, but 100% of chuds I've ever met online or in real life are insufferable sociopaths.
>I know you are, but what am I?
A homosexual.
Well, given that you're unironically saying "chud," it doesn't surprise me that you think that.
You're all like that, not "a vocal minority"
You deserve to die the most of anyone I've ever met and I've met the governor of my state.
I agree, TTD should not allow for exceptions, even hypothetical ones.
friendly reminder the Stonewall riots were because homosexuals were upset that the police were shutting down a mafia run child prostitution ring that would pimp out underaged runaway boys to them
The trans lady in Hogearts legacy was done well I think.
What was his name again
I heard they actually fast tracked Sirona into the game as a protest against Rowling. Wonder what she thought in the end
>cool, more money
>i'm rich either way, cope and seethe
Pretty much. I disagree with Rowling on a lot but I still love the world she created and defend her against those morons over this issue.
Took me way too long to get SIRona.