Turning Apocalypse into a hero and making him a X-men is equivalent to DC turning Mongul into a hero and giving him a Justice League membership. It was just moronic and there is no justification for it.
Turning Apocalypse into a hero and making him a X-men is equivalent to DC turning Mongul into a hero and giving him a Justice League membership.
Apocalypse is a boring fricking villain. Him in the krakoa era was the first time he was ever interesting.
fpbp
>first time he was interesting
except he became background furniture and didn't have much of a role and did no fighting.
>and did no fighting.
homie, you wrong
Mutant magic was lame and felt like it was making shit up as went. Outside of that he disappeared for most of the krakoa era.
I love how the fundamental aspect of mutant aspect was outright "X is superior to O lol". That this was the best they could think of shows this shit was never going to matter.
>Him in the krakoa era was the first time he was ever interesting.
X-Men fans deserve to have the shitty stories they're getting
This is true, and Hickman has ruined him as a character.
True awareness is recognizing that attempts to turn Magneto, Mystique and Emma into heroes was equally moronic and without justification. Just like Apocalypse, every time they do this it requires a villain's entire history to be retconned and memoryholed and everyone to pretend their crimes were all committed for the good of their people.
Emma Frost you can kind of excuse it since she can claim ignorance and didn't know that she was funding Sentinels. Emma Frost's misdeeds are also pretty tame compared to legit terrorists and mass murders like Magneto and Mystique.
>didn't know that she was funding Sentinels
Retcon by Fraction so Emma dindu nuffin.
>Emma Frost you can kind of excuse it
No you can't, you can't excuse being a mutant supremacist and a telepathic rapist
The entire X-brand is ruined. You do not bounce back from feeding people to xenomorphs because you think they're not people
>You do not bounce back from feeding people to xenomorphs because you think they're not people
I thought the problem was Scott wanted to genocide the Brood?
name a species Scott doesn't want to genocide
mutants don't count, they're not a species
Did they do it to show that apocalypse was a "good guy"? Or did they do it to show that the X-Men were prepared to prioritize mutant survival and supremacy above the moral mores they used to espouse?
Yes.
We can argue about the execution all day but it's so annoying to see people like OP who just reject all the ideas and directions Hickman wanted to take the series.
>what if nazi island
>but also they're constantly fricking and murdering each other for funsies because consequences are for other writers
Most of what Hickman wanted to do with Krakoa was terrible. Especially when the intent was always to burn it down
He wasted all those ideas. This shit was getting dull 10 issues in, he couldn't follow through on the concept well enough
that's where you are wrong. he didn't turn into a hero, the x-men turned into villains
facts
Black Adam was part of the JSA.
Geoff had to do a 180 on previously established characterization by blaming all of his actions on Theo Adam
Krakoa was the best thing thats happened to Apoc in decades
this, He became more than the designated X-jobber. Also, I now want a reformed Mongul
it would give Mongul something other than being like the 3rd string generic alien invader.
Where are these Hickman sycophants coming from? Are they like a cult or something?
They like Hickman is a God that can't do anything wrong and everything bad about his work is the fault of others, wtf is going on?
It was all based on Moira’s manipulation and how you needed to give general amnesty to everyone for future survival of entire mutantkind
Apocalypse became an X-Man during the last school era. When Krakoa was just their lawn.
That was Evan, not actual Apocalypse
I miss Evan.
Still mad that when Evan die, Deadpool not there
Or Deadpool reaction when hearing Evan die
no, it actually makes a kind of sense
he was getting his ass kicked by kids weekly before, it's genuine character growth for him to stop shouting SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, LEONARD and actually go to school for the first time since people stopped believing a dung beetle pushed the sun through the sky
the premise beyond that, of an immortal super powered being who is apparently incapable of learning or personal growth and despite having the godlike technology of an alien race at his disposal still gets rekt by anybody at all on the reg is moronic
what you're seeing isn't the problem, it's an attempt at a solution for something which is inherently very dumb, and by contrasting that inherent dumbness with normality - the kind of thing any functioning adult could be expected to do after a defeat, thinking about what went wrong and how to improve on that - the stupidity of the wider premise becomes apparent
A lot of fricking mass murderers should never have been allowed on Krakoa. Apocalypse and Selene being some of the worst. Mystique and Sinister too obviously and they did betray them. The only clever thing they did was throw Sabretooth in a hole instantly.
>Turning Apocalypse into a hero
you... missed the point of Krakoa
A lot of people did, including the writers.
I agree but Apocalypse has been getting jobbed for decades and the issue where he kills Aero is the best in the entire Krakoa era so I'm willing to let it go. Then I remember that moronic sword shit and his wife from another dimension or whatever and I feel less forgiving.
It's so funny to see the twitter crowd celebrate Krakoa and unwittingly embracing the concept that your genes are more important than who you are as a person. Which is usually the exact opposite of what they argue for.
It's even funnier when THEY DON'T BUY THE FRICKING BOOK! And you're missing the point. They don't chair about the superior gene thing. They probably don't even realize it. No. They just like seeing whomever they call "fascists" get styled on.
But quite a few mutants that they welcomed on Krakoa are fascists.
Turning Professor X into The Maker is just as moronic and should tell you something about what they were going for.
They didn’t really turn him into the Maker. Hickman just has a boner for the design
Marvel has always been more morally complex than DC. No one is truly good or evil, they're all shades of grey, and the readers are supposed to identify the virtues and vices of the characters.
Karkoapocalypse was the most interesting he had been since Age of Apocalypse
it went hard
i want to see apocalypse riding the waves helping crush orchis
like a mutant general
He was a lame 1990s villain who was cool as the final super sentai boss in Marvel vs. Anything they do with him now is profit. He should be forgotten like most of the mutants who were "killed" on M-Day.
He wasn't turned into a hero, the heroes turned into villains.
Wolverine was better when he wasn't a mutant
maybe on planet moron
Mongul 2 was a good guy during the Imperiex story.
Isn't Lex Luthor on the Justice League?
>How could we know they were untrustworthy?
>THEY'RE CALLED MR SINISTER AND APOCALYPSE!