>villain is an irredeemable butthole with no motivation other than "I want it"
Why is this so rare now?
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>villain is an irredeemable asshole with no motivation other than "I want it"
>villain is an irredeemable butthole with no motivation other than "I want it"
Why is this so rare now?
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DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
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every character now need to be complex and no put in a 'box' except jocks and rich people
i wanna frick that guy
So, is Clara a statue now or was she turned into a dragon and chained up somewhere?
Where’s the nude 3D model someone who worked on the movie had?
He shares a movie with two antivillains.
People fell for the villain tier meme
What does that mean?
Who?
nta but Death and Goldilocks
I assume anon is referring to this chart that used to make the rounds a long time ago. It basically puts villains with complex motivations above villains with little justification for their misdeeds.
Which can work for some villains. It can be fun to challenge your own moral concepts in unexpected ways, especially if most villains you've encountered for a while have been overly simplistic. I think it's fair to call this chart appropriate for a teenager starting to demand more from the media they consume.
But as per usual with these things, once you've tasted a bit of everything, you start to realize that variety is the spice of life. Certain villains are a good fit for certain stories. It's not as simple as "complex/justified villains > simplistic/unjustified villains".
I've always wondered if that image is satire, since it misunderstands Ozymandias right at the top.
It probably is but to be fair Ganondorf is a pretty shitty character, I mean he's more like a plot device than a character.
Would make it fit into it being a troll. But I think Ganon's fine for it's story. Though I also think Zelda is vastly overrated. So, eh.
>But I think Ganon's fine for it's story
He would be if they at least tried to make him entertaining, the problem is that even after 20 years the guy got nothing but generic lines like "you will die" or "I won", he's just a non character
I'd love to tell you whether or not Ozymandias was right or not but sadly all the media out there exploring what would happen after the events of the original story are fricking horrible and should be avoided like carcinogenic gas.
I'm arguing his motivation isn't what he says. His motivation is he wants to prove he's a super hero to stroke his ego. That's his actual motivation. People take him at his word, and then argue over whether the plan was good. They misunderstand that he's a narcissist and his word can't be trusted.
It's not a misunderstanding, Moore is criticising moral absolutism and Ozy was designed as a paragon.
Designed as a paragon of creatures that Moore believes to be fallible and fragile, the world's smartest man is no different in the face of the universe than the world's smartest termite. In the end he's still full of self-doubt and regret.
>includes ganondorf
>clearly didn't read his motivations in OOT
shit fricking list.
As someone else said, people fell for the villain tier meme and demanded more complex villains. Granted, this isn't a bad thing, but there's a villain for every story.
Adding to this though, most of the villains that we've been getting from, say, Disney or Pixar are irredeemable people out for power, it's just that, because they're twist villains who don't do anything until the finale, you never really spend any time with them or learn anything about them. Zootopia, Wreck it Ralph, Coco, these all have villains that just want power, they just don't do anything until the big twist where they're defeated.
OoT was simply a lust for power, and when he gets it, everything goes to shit. It's not until Wind Waker that they tried to make it sympathetic.
Where does Belos rank on that list
The problem with this is tiering it rather than just classifying different kinds of villains.
Also Ganondorf is between what it calls mid and high tier.
Joker really grew on me after waking up to the clown world I live in.
absolute homosexual list
>I think it's fair to call this chart appropriate for a teenager starting to demand more from the media they consume
I think you nailed it. Every time this image was posted in the early 10s, you could tell everyone stroking it off was a teen. Now those teens have grown up and realized there's more nuance to a memorable villain than simply having a sob story so this tier is looked at more as cringe nowadays.
I like the idea of Jack having a tragic backstory (his play being an indicator), but decided "frick it" and completely tossed his moral compass aside when he realized if you wanna get places, you'll need to ruthless; and he doesn't ever regret doing it, viewing it as one of the best things he's ever done.
And it's not even that tragic either, dude's just a complete evil butthole and he has no regrets about it til the very end.
I need more of this
Aren't most anime villains that? Muh law of le jungle?
Big Jack received a lot of positive feedback so there's probably going to be an oversaturation of butthole villains in the coming years.
I dunno, but this is comics and cartoons and it seems like most villains need to have a tragic backstory, an indirect good reason for their motivation, or at the very least some sort of turn at the end.
Jack's just an butthole the whole way through, mocks the cricket for taking so long to realise he's terrible and feels like he doesn't deserve his fate. It's like a breath of fresh air.
Ah, of course.
No. Frieza wanted immortality, Piccolo wanted world domination, the Akatsuki were just private military contractors, Dip wanted to end the Joestars.
It's a mixed bag. Vegeta got redeemed, Nagato (and then Obito, and then Madara) were explained as nuanced characters, and even Part 7's Diego had a tragic bacsktory
Dio also had a tragic backstory to justify why he was such a prick but even Speedwagon calls it out as being self-righteous bullshit
>Piccolo just stopped wanting to kill everyone one day.
It's also because his time training Gohan made him softer and discovering he wasn't a demon but from another world made him realize his purpose was probably bullshit too
Doesn't the existence of Part 7 Dio confirm that's he's evil as a byproduct of his crap upbringing, and Speedwagon was just saying shit
I vaguely recall ChingChong man doing some phrenology on DIO that similarly said he was destined to be evil. It's very in line with Araki to say that he was simply born under a wrong star and innately evil in his very nature/
No? Part 7 is after the reboot and the reboot and original series are not canon to each other, I'm not even sure if they are in the same multiverse since they have such drastically different rules on reality itself.
I dunno, Diago was still kind of evil, even if he was raised by his mom. He had no problem killing people, or manipulating them; didn't he start his fortune by marrying an old lady and then murdering her for the inheritance? Granted, he wasn't evil enough to discover The World, but he was still pretty malicious.
Most of the time. It's One Piece that wants to make everyone into some tragic misunderstood tortured potential hero.
Nah, Dragonball just makes a villain into a sidekick with zero actual redemption half the time. Piccolo just stopped wanting to kill everyone one day. Vegeta also just sort of stopped wanting to kill everyone he met one afternoon. Same with 17, Buu, Yamcha was a thief and Oolong a kidnapper until they just sort of weren't any longer. The story largely stops portraying a villain as a villain the second they are not more powerful than the heroes, and they all start hanging out like they were always friends.
Tien was the only one to have an actual self realization moment and join the good guys.
>Piccolo just stopped wanting to kill everyone one day.
He only ever wanted to kill Goku.
And then he got to do it and found it wasn't that great.
>Piccolo just stopped wanting to kill everyone one day
Modern Piccolo is not King Piccolo. The original King Piccolo was a supernatural mutant born from Kami expelling his evil side. Modern Piccolo is his son he gave birth to shortly before dying.
Modern Piccolo never "wanted" to be evil or kill everyone. He felt obligated to because that was the mission his father gave him. Even in the original Dragon Ball we see Piccolo saving a mother and child from certain death (though in a mean way).
His redemption arc was training Gohan, becoming attached to him and understanding the value of love and friendship.
I noticed Sukuna is making people seethe because he's just evil for the lulz, and not another tragic "did nothing wrong" who would get defenders if he blew up a nursery.
>I noticed Sukuna is making people seethe because he's just evil for the lulz
How is that even possible if everybody is kissing Jojo Bizarre Adventure villains and 9/10 of their villains were literal sociopaths that spend half of their lines describing their sociopathy
*kissing Jojo Bizarre Adventure villains asses
A lot of anime villains these days only exist to be villains in the background and the show isn't even about them.
Unless they're about revenge.
the world is healing
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
The greatest error the modern zeitgeist has made is pretending that no one is evil.
Those are the protagonists now
I feel like it all those video essays “critics” made just kept on asking for more idiosyncrasies instead of appreciating simplicity. Sometimes I can’t tell if this is an era where simplicity is more appreciated or if idiosyncratic gimmicks are what holds the attention of people.
A whole generation grew up on media where the villains were just irredeemable buttholes. It's just playing around and subverting the familiar
Its a combo of
(I say this attempting to be non biased) and that fact that since gay people were locked out of traditional heroic roles for so long and had their traits put into villains, so in order to protect their own senses of self they had to rewrite villains in their heads and later in the media they produced.into more nuanced portrayals if not outright subversion's.
Now we live in an era where the concepts of endings and universal morality are staring to be seen as negatives in these communities so who knows where well go from here.
I don't quite buy that, since many "queer-coded" villains imagine more quotes if you need to tend to be pretty irredeemable. Ursula is a complete piece of shit whose only goal is to acquire power and spread senseless misery. Ratcliffe is just a greedy butthole. Scar wants Pussy and a nice sunning spot. Ultimately the overlap between "Queer Coding" and Villainy is camp, which thanks to the fact that these are musicals to boot. Villains are allowed to lean into the whole "I'm an butthole and I love it so much, look at how shitty I am!" Like going back to Ursula being Devine, I feel like a lot of it is less preserving self and more embracing and satirizing your very existence being offensive to others. I could probably also go onto a tangent about how being bad is just plain old fun for most people, I think Eartha Kitt had a song about it.
>A whole generation grew up on media where the villains were just irredeemable buttholes
What? Even baby boomer media has sympathetic villains, or at least attempts at such.
Consider the original Star Trek. That show made a murderous Greek god seem so pitiful that the heroes navel gazed over whether they should have killed him.
Were children watching Star Trek back in the day?
Of course. The level of infatuation the stereotypical trekkie has can only exist if they watched it as a child. An adult isn't going to just jump into star trek and suddenly become obsessed.
Yeah my Boomer Dad was really into it.
Definitely
The Next Generation exists because Trekkies who were kids in the 60s became adults in the 80s, and the nostalgia/demand for a revival had reached a boiling point.
It's funny that for all the issues with reboots and sequels, they used to do it so much more in the past but to greater effect. I wonder if it's just the prevelance/scarcity of media. Like I feel like if Godzilla today was like Godzilla in the SHOWA era...would I be as generous? Would I have the patience for all the Star Trek sequels despite liking basically everything up until Enterprise, and even then I have a softspot because teenage me was way into T'Misc and NEET me wasted every afternoon being depressed and I was sucked into all the reruns.
When was the last time there was a genuinely sympathetic villain in a Disney movie actually? For everyone's whining I'm actually stumped.
Well the issue with Disney is twist villains, not overly sympathetic villains. Also the answer is Loki if you want to count MCU.
>When was the last time there was a genuinely sympathetic villain in a Disney movie actually?
Wish.
Honestly pretty much every villain is now le empathic and understanding so they can be redeemed and turn into a homosexual
expect if there a bigot, no matter what they done, there now irredeemable
Myotismon never wanted to repent. He believes that it was his destiny to rule the world and came back stronger as a mindless monster, came back again as a demon lord who fed off the negative energy of kids and had to be purged with hope or Buddhist chants.
its not
In a word, people genuinely believed that villains are the way they are because of shitty upbringing or suffered from injustice, and that in their perspective, it’s self-defense against their “aggressors” and consoomers eat them up.
Even though there are people out there in the real world who are irredeemable asshats like picrel, but the argument would be like: “it’s unrealistic and cartoonish…”
Tabula rasa bullshit where susiety is the real villain, and no one is ever responsible for their crimes, is all the rage
It's conditioning for you to see horrible billionaires as "people" instead of the evil monsters they truly are.
Somehow Total Drama is being the most based show in the current year for this. They got an unrepentant mean b***h and a sassy gay antagonist at the same time, shame that they both lost to worst girl
people copying miyazaki's take on there not being any real "villains" only antagonists but don't have the same sensibilities as him so they just flop.
>Miyazaki's take on there not being any real "villains"
How the frick is anyone going to say that Yubaba is not a real villain.
Because writers pay attention to people. How many threads got derailed over a waifu? How many discords have fallen apart over a horny nerd chasing a girl? Shit, Infinity War would be more relatable if they kept Thanos simping over Death.
>Shit, Infinity War would be more relatable if they kept Thanos simping over Death.
It would have fixed a LOT.
>hurr why didn't he just double the resources instead
Because he was actually simping over death and trying to impress her by killing half the universe. Makes far more sense than everything in the universe misusing resources.
Because Goldilocks was the tragic origin villain with shades of gray. And Death was the not really a villain, honorable guy.
Because too many writers sympathize with the villains from old animated movies. They identify with the undeserved entitlement, the fabricated victim complex, and the warped morality that they should be allowed to hurt anyone who they see as a hindrance to their goals. On top of that, pop culture analyst homosexuals have widely popularized the idea that every Disney villain is secretly SUPER FRICKING GAY so that exponentially increases their right to revenge and acts of evil in the eyes of modern writers and producers.
None of this is even remotely a joke, by the way.
I really enjoy a villain that is pure evil but also crafty as frick. Kinda feels like he earned the big baddie title.
How the FRICK has no one posted the gif yet?
Because you only watch Disney movies
>has a clear and understandable motive
doesn't need to have a tragic backstory or be redeemable
just have a clear end goal and motive instead of being evil because they're evil with no clear motive or end goal
you have to be a special kind of saddo to want villains without reason.
>you have to be a special kind of saddo to want villains without reason.
He does have a reason; he thinks magic is awesome and doesn't want anyone to have it. The movie does a good job of showing that he's amassed a large collection and that it doesn't feel like enough for him.
>no rule 34 of Jack sticking his thumb is goldilocks ass.
wrong pic
I want to insert my penis inside that mouth.
Because you already find that constantly in real life.