Was Gotenks really that bad? I kind of liked his Arabian Knights looking outfit. His battle was Majin Buu was also pretty entertaining, for what it was
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>Was Gotenks really that bad?
Yes. The annoying ass voice just grates my soul.
gotenks like much of the buu saga is a pleb filter
I want Adult Gotenks but actually competent
>adult Gotenks
SS4 Gogeta is exactly that.
>actually competent
Don't know about that.
The series had been getting more serious ever since the king Piccolo saga. Gotenks never fit the tone of Z. Also, no one liked how strong he was. A few months in the HTC and he’s SSJ3, it cheapened the form
it's one thing to unlock a potential transformation yourself. it's another thing to see it done, know it's possible, and realize that the main drawback can be overcome with a new state you have. i don't really have a big problem with this, tbh. a lot of things like this happen IRL too.
yeah they don't even really understand what they are doing with gohan after his potential has been unlocked.
also i wonder where the name 'mystic' for gohan came from? it's been used at least as early as like 2006 on the old imdb boards but i never knew where it actually came from.
The official name is just "Potential Unleashed Gohan", right? Is "Ultimate Gohan" official?
It's Mystic Gohan
in most video games and official sources, it's a variation of "potential unleashed" or "potential unlocked" or even "Elder Kai Unlock Ability".
there is no single, unique official name for it as far as I can tell. i still have no clue where "mystic" came from and i cannot actually remember any sources from the show calling him that.
ultimate gohan seems like something they'd say in official sources but i can't be sure if they did.
i remember in the manga and tv shows, they never call it an actual 'form' or transformation... they just refer to it as what it is: an unlocking of the potential within gohan, and then he's like that for good.
>and then he's like that for good
Retconned, sadly. It's treated as a transformation in Super.
>a lot of things like this happen IRL too.
yeah, i've learn a lot of new transformations myself after watching others
fricking moron.
>also i wonder where the name 'mystic' for gohan came from? it's been used at least as early as like 2006 on the old imdb boards but i never knew where it actually came from.
it came from magic so it was called Mystic
Previous Balls:
Also, it was Arabian Nights, not Knights
Still mad about mystic gohan. Toriyama is a hack
Goku could have just Instant Transmissioned to Earth to grab Gohan to let him fix his mistake and defeat Buu...
Dragon Ball became a hit because of Toriyama’s editor. Not Toriyama himself.
No one gave a frick about the series in the first arc. DB didn’t get popular until the tournament, and the OG series failed in the US twice because the first arc sucked. Starting with Z is what made the IP a hit in the states.
Having a shitty dub and editing for censorship will do that, the first series seemed to do well outside the U.S.
>and the OG series failed in the US twice because the first arc sucked
No zoomer, it "failed" first because Harmony Gold ran out of money after its test airing in 1989. Then it failed again in 1995 because the syndication partner could only secure some moronic 5am timeslot for it that nobody watched. Afterwards Funimation partnered with Saban and skipped to Z which slowly began its ascent.
Then by 2001, when DBZ was a success, Funi went back and redubbed DB with its Texas cast, aired it on Toonami, and it did moderately well.
His editor was the one suggesting to add moronic power up after moronic power up in the Buu arc. Toriyama, being burnt out by that point, just went with it because he knew the manga was done and he could retire to his gold house.
Dont be
We have SSJ Mystic Gohan now.
>Gohan (Blanco) actually happened and is now part of canonical lore
Still hard to believe.
Still waiting for El Hermano
KINO. Actually looks pretty good in 2D.
Seeing Gohan use the Makankōsappō for the first time was pretty cool.
Wrong board
FRICK
OFF
Cinemaphile is too white to post on /dbs/
As cool as Gotenks and Gogeta are, the Metamoran fusion dance was a mistake and should have never been introduced. Fusion in general is too powerful and is an answer to almost any new powerful villain that shows up.
With Vegetto, there was "balance" due to them actually needing a Kaioshin to provide the Potara Earrings and the fusion being permanent (before the retcon) thus making it an actual difficult decision.
Now there's literally no reason to not just have Gogeta clear any enemy since the Metamoran Fusion has been retconned into being just as powerful as the Potara fusion and has literally zero downsides besides hurting Vegeta's pride.
They should have not introduced the Metamoran fusion dance and kept the permanent aspect of the Potara Fusion. Can't have Vegetto solve a problem if there's no Kaioshin to provide the Potara Earrings.
There's zero threat when an enemy shows up now as the enemy can't be absurdly more powerful than Goku and Vegeta as that would make it not interesting if they were to get stomped. So they have to make Goku and Vegeta just a bit weaker, which makes it a non-threat since Blue Gogeta would annihilate any such enemy and there's no actual downside to the Metamoran Fusion Dance anymore after the retcons.
When Vegeta and Nappa arrived on Earth, Goku and his friends HAD to overcome Vegeta's power with their teamwork. Bulma couldn't call Whis and offer Beerus some ice cream to solve their issue. Goku and Tenshinhan couldn't fuse to defeat Vegeta.
When Goku fought Freeza on Namek, he HAD to ascend to a Super Saiyajin and defeat Freeza because if he didn't it would be the death of everyone.
When Gohan fought Cell, he HAD to overcome his self doubt and kill Cell because no one else could. It Gohan failed, Goku and Vegeta couldn't just fuse to solve the prolbem. Gohan HAD to surpass his own limits and defeat Cell.
How are Granola, Gas and Black Freeza supposed to be a threat? Worst-case scenario Gogeta will solve the problem.
>There's zero threat when an enemy shows up now
Because Super introduced characters that are actual gods, then angels who are even more powerful than these gods and then the actual god of everything that can erase anything from existence at will. And they're all friends of Goku.
In the recent movie with Broly there's a scene where he attacks Whis while in Berserk mode and Whis casually dodges everything taunting him at the same time. The scene is meant to portray that even Broly who became a fan-favorite because he is the LEGENDARY Super Saiyan and because he was nearly impossible to defeat for the Z fighters is completely powerless before an angel. Then Goku and Vegeta turn into Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta and almost kill Broly.
There are no stakes, there is no threat and no sense of danger in the Dragon Ball universe anymore, because whatever SS Blue Gogeta cannot defeat, Goku's new buddies who are literal gods with infinite power will, while taunting and trying to be funny about it.
Yea that's how I feel. It's the same in the manga, with Freeza getting uppity when he got a new form as if Gogeta can't curb stomp him in seconds.
In Revival of F, Whis just rewinds time and saves everyone. In the Moro arc, Beerus was ready to intervene because his source of ice cream was about to be destroyed.
>There are no stakes, there is no threat
It also doesn't help that Super is canonically taking place before End of Z, so no matter what we know they win and that the characters that appear in End of Z are all alive and well.
I mean, in shounen we know the hero is gonna win in the end anyway, but there must be something to make us care about the battles and the characters, whether it's the risk of some established character dying or the setting and tone of the universe changing and becoming darker if the hero loses.
It's impossible to be at the edge of your seat when you know the main character has his god buddy right behind him ready to snap his finger and make whatever he doesn't like disappear because le funny gags and icecream.
>The hero will win
I agree in general but End of Z is specifically a problem not just because we know that they'll will win in the end, but because we even know who lives and who dies.
Dragon Ball could have ended with Freeza which would have left Vegeta (and potentially Goku) dead. Dragon Ball could have ended with Cell which would have left Goku dead and with Gohan to be the protector of Earth. But since we saw End of Z, we know that they'll all alive and well.
>God buddy
I'd have liked it a lot more if Whis and Beerus just agreed to train Goku and Vegeta and actually kept their word about not intervening. The existence of such powerful beings in itself isn't the issue, it's their willingness to help save the day.
We needed a villain to be a massive threat to Earth and Humanity and for Beerus to just say "not my problem" and for Whis agreeing and taking him away.
it was also really gay to have it be possible with a dance.
narratively speaking, it makes sense as a way to quickly get characters to a given powerlevel to continue the fighting.
but in-universe, what it did was horrible. like absolutely horrible. everyone should just fuse all the time to beat whatever enemy comes back. then of course, the enemies that appear will always have their power levels necessarily scaled to be minimum of the power of a fused being so that there can be tension.
it's very bad.
this is what happens when you don't think before you write. it's sad that it got to that point in db.
The Potara Fusion was still fine with having the permanent aspect of it as a cost and the fact that a Kaioshin wasn't always there to provide the earrings.
But the Metamoran fusion dance isn't permanent, was retconned to have equal power to Potara and doesn't require a special unique unobtainable item. Literally no downsides.
Also, saying that Vegeta's pride would be too hurt to agree is pointless because he will agree in the end. Just remind him that Bulma and Trunks would die if he doesn't and he does the dance (Broly movie) or puts on the earring (Goku Black Saga).
gogeta being red and vegito being blue works perfectly
You're thinking in terms of balance without realizing that the introduction of power levels ruined the entirety of Dragon Ball.
It's wild to remember that Goku was at a power level of 416 at the start of the Saiyajin Saga and got to 150,000,000 at the end of the Freeza Saga.
Those Zenkai Boost were insane.
The main problem with Gotenks is that both goten and trunks are failed characters
>no sense of individuality since they’re always joined to the hip and fusing
>Goten is a failed attempt at kid Goku
>both cheapened SSJ
>all the cool hybrid saiyan scenes went to Gohan and future trunks first
>had no development and were comic relief
>came in too late for the series
>Goten lives in the shadow of his brother and father and offers nothing they didn’t
>are so much weaker than the others so they’ll never play an important role in a big fight
At least trunks had a reason for being born, Goten is fricking pointless.
>Are so much weaker than the others so they’ll never play an important role in a big fight
That wasn't the case when they fused, which was just absurd. They do a dance and Gotenks gets Super Saiyajin 3 which Goku required 7 years with infinite Ki while dead to obtain and Vegeta couldn't achieve through a life time of training and battles.
It's ruined in super though, with SSJ 3 Gotenks being weaker than base Vegeta. Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks are just gag characters now, as shown by Super Hero fusing into fat Gotenks and being ping ponged around.
Trunks can't be his own character with Goten glued to him. People hate GT but it separated them and gave Goten his own character while allowing for Trunks to be a main character (at least for a part of GT).
Maybe Goten being a chad that likes girls isn't productive to him fighting int he show but at least it gave him something so he's not just fuel for half of Gotenks.
How do you respond to this (as a girl) without sounding mad?
Hopefully Goten's charms will win her over again once Baby stops possessing him. Who can compete, he can turn golden.
There’s really not much to do with Goten. Gohan did everything first. He was the one with hidden potential and got all the father/son moments with Goku. Anything Goten will feel like a cheap copy. It’s why Goten turning SSJ didn’t do anything for me. Gohan was the special one first and we saw his grow as a fighter. We saw him beat a powerful enemy that no one else could in Cell. It’s too late for Goten to shine. No one wants to see him be the strongest
Precisely why I prefer him in GT, since he's not just following everyone else around and just does his own thing (which can be boring for that kind of show but at least he's not Trunks' shadow). Trunks can then walk his own path without being half of a pair.
We’re so saturated with DB content but I wouldn’t have minded a GT reboot in the late 00s and early 10s
>don’t make Pan a major character
>make Uub matter
>don’t turn Goku back into a kid(pointless attempt at trying to capture the old DB magic)
>actually deliver on Gohan, Uub, Goten, and Trunks being the next generation of heroes
>give Goten and Trunks some solo development
>give Piccolo something to do, anything please. He was always tied to the dragon balls so make that matter again
>don’t just brush away SSJ3
I wouldn't mind Pan if they just made her a bit less bratty and didn't pussy out and let her actually be the first female Super Saiyajin in the franchise instead of Caulifla.
>let her actually be the first female Super Saiyajin in the franchise instead of Caulifla
I'm still mad about this.
>Back tingles lmao
>I wouldn't mind Pan if they just made her a bit less bratty
That's her whole appeal though, you can't take that away from her. Look what happened to Videl when they stripped her of being an aggressive tomboy. She's just a boring housewife now, with all of her original appeal gone
>let her actually be the first female Super Saiyajin in the franchise instead of Caulifla
Caulifla getting a Super Sayian form was like a terrible monkey's paw wish. It was so badly mishandled. I think Caulifla would have been so much better off if she never got one at all and just tried to wing it as she was, with her delinquent brawler fighting style. We haven't seen a Saiyan make due with what they had since Bejita on Namek and that was some of the best dirty fighting we ever saw in the franchise. I'd have loved to see Caulifla doing things like that, playing really dirty pool to get her victories over vastly superior opponents. It is in her character to be like that too, but it is never utilized
I think that the Universe 6 Saiyajins would have been a good opportunity to introduce Super Saiyajin 4 to the franchise, by having them take a different evolution path that the Universe 7 ones chose with the God Ki.
They'd have to still have their tails and all.
Toriyama and Toei are too lazy to draw monkey tails anymore, among other things, like detailed and toned muscles. Caulifla and Kale getting the Supa Saya 4 form, or some slight derivative of it, would have definitely been a sight to see. I wouldn't have even minded if it wasn't used in the tournament at all and it is just something in the last episode that Caulifla figured out later by accident, when she was with Kale. One last fun visual and scene to end the series with, as a novelty of sorts
I've seen it suggested before that it would have been cool if Goku tried to trick them to getting Super Saiyajin 3 without telling them of the drawbacks in the middle of the tournament, so they'll run out of Ki and won't be able to fight anymore.
They could have then fused and with the Potara fusion power increase reached Super Saiyajin 4 as Kefla or something.
Toei won't be touching Super for who knows how long, so that's a lot of time to think about what they can do with Caulifla and Kale. I'd say to them "take your time", until they can think up some really fun stuff for those two to do, but that might translate to several decades, knowing Toei. I'll just stay cautiously optimistic. I'm happy we got Caulifla and Kale at all
Imagine Chadhan fricking both of them
Only until Daima ends, and Daima has 25 episodes.
There is Vegeta's promise to go train Cabbage in Universe 6, so if there's a chance if Toriyama remembers it.
Caulifla and Kale are for pure yuri love.
>We’re so saturated with DB content
????????
We are literally drip fed
The last DB movie was in 2022, and the manga hasn't been worth reading in since then.
How much less content do you need?
Gotenks and Picollo's dynamic improved the Buu arc in 100%. Too fricking funny lmao
the only part of Super Buu saga that was cool was when Goku and Vegeta fuse and kick Super Buu's ass
but then shortly after that is pretty much the worst part of the entire series, when they get swallowed by Super Buu and it felt like it was fricking ten episodes long of them just being in Super Buu and navigating his insides
but then after that when they fight Kid Buu on the Kai homeworld was pretty cool
I liked the early parts, preparing for the tournament and Gohan finding that while he doesn't enjoy fights, he likes to save people and wishing to be a super hero.
What should the post-super content be like?
Find a way to remake and canonize GT's interesting concepts with a proper execution.
like muppet babies
Why is Broly with them? Explain superspics
he's canon now. 43 year old man child raised alone on a planet with his dad.
The Dragon Ball Super Broly movie canonized Broly and Gogeta. He got mad, got BTFO by Blue Gogeta and now he's training with Goku and Vegeta.
I'd recommend watching the new Broly movie. With all the bad things in Super, the movie is really great and has really nice animation.
He's an honorary z fighter after the Super movie
>Let the manga finish off any more pre-EoZ content while we air Daima
>Weekly episode Super continuation that adapts the Super movies and manga chapters
>Jump right into a new seasonal series that drops the weekly format in exchange for something closer to My Hero Academia in release schedule
GT but with Goten, Trunks, Cabba, Caulifla and Kale.
He was hyped up a lot and ended up being pointless. They could have at least had him fight Kid Buu while they waited on the Spirit Bomb
If Goku went back to Earth to grab the two of them, he could have just grabbed Gohan.
Threadly reminder that vegeta has beaten goku 3 seperate times
Bejita definitely beat Goku fair and square in the third one. The other confrontations never reached a satisfying conclusion though between them. Even though Bejita dropped Goku then, in Bejita's mind, he still didn't actually win. He never claimed his complete, undisputed victory over Goku until after he beat him during the match on Beerus' planet
>The 3rd one
It can be argued that no techniques or transformations were allowed there, so Goku's ability to use Ultra Instinct wasn't allowed evn if it would allowed him to defeat Vegeta.
And even if Bejita would have lost if Goku was able to use the Instinct, he still gets to take home a nice win. In a series with such heavy focus on super forms, besting Goku in the basic form is a really big accomplishment
Yea agreed. I wonder if they'll bring his Ultra Ego form to canon some time so he has an equivalent to Goku's Ultra Instinct.
They will. Super is on a backburner until Daima ends.
Godhan thread?
Is power creep really a fair criticism of Z and Super? It’s a part of shonen, as our hero progresses through his journey, he’ll come across stronger enemies so he has to advance in order to beat them. It was seen all the way in early DB
>Roshi went from destroying the mountain to the moon
>Roshi tells Goku there will always be someone stronger
>after Goku beats Piccolo it’s revealed there are 2 lazy buttholes in the sky far stronger than him and they did nothing
Super Saiyan form did lose some of its luster but it’s not like it was abandoned for an entirely new transformation. SSJ3 is just an extension of the original form, it still maintains the golden hair
> it was abandoned for an entirely new transformation.
Ultra instinct and the god forms are exactly that. New transformations keep getting introduced and none of them are allowed to breathe. They’re all useless since each one gets replaced quickly. Every other shonen handled lower escalation better
Still funny how Super used other characters more than GT.
It didn't treat all of them very nicely.
I honestly think that after Daima ends, Super is going to end up getting a remake. Either following the manga or the original anime. Whole of Super can be shortened to 50-80 episodes. It would also give Toyo time to go even further ahead, which is something that Shueisha wants.
>Vegito
it's Vegirot, Vegito makes zero fricking sense.
Why does Gogeta uses "Goku" but Vegetto uses "Kakaroto"?
Vegeta is dominant in Vegito so he uses Kakarot and Goku is dominant in Gogeta.
I’ll never forgive what the series did to Piccolo, turning him into a babysitter for 2 brats is a disgrace. Don’t think they fixed the mistakes by giving Piccolo a new asspull transformation. 17 being stronger than him in Super is BS, Piccolo should’ve been an active fighter in the Buu saga. He always kept up with the saiyans, even surpassed SSJ at one point, and never stopped training. It would’ve been cool to see him fight Dabura. Now Dabura, he had final villain potential, what a wasted character
>Never stopped training, having the willingness and determination to keep getting stronger and improving but doesn't matter not allowed to keep up
Piccolo isn't the only victim of that...
Tienshinhan and Piccolo's steadfast determination to thwart Goku and surpass him really got chucked to the wayside after Namek, like much of everything else in early Dragon Ball. Toriyama probably just couldn't find time for it anymore, that's what I think. The Cell saga didn't allow for any kind of side stories due to the urgency of the androids. Even Bejita, who kept saying "When this is over, you're next, Kakkarot!" never got his final duel. And by the time Buu came, it was already over, Toriyama was burnt out and quit
Side movies could have been used for that, but the Saiyajins just get to shine there as well.
Even rewatching Kai earlier this past year, the Buu saga over stays it's welcome. And the take away just really isn't worthwhile for the series.
Does the fusion dance still require an equal power level between the two halves or was that also retconned?
No, it still requires the same power level.
When i was 9 gotenks was the coolest shit ever to me but now when i look back i cringe so hard
Thoughts on what the next movie will be?
Granola's arc could be a movie, but they have to go with Moro's arc first which wouldn't fit into a movie as well as Granola's.
Both Granolah and Moro arcs are long as shit. You cannot turn them into movies.
I remember Moro's being long, but was Granola's also?
Yeah, Granolah is just a little shorter.
The vast majority of the Granolah arc is just fights, it could definitely fit into a two hour movie. Moro could maybe be turned into a movie if you cut absolutely all the side character fights.
who is this dude? former saiyan abandoned by king vegeta who wants revenge?
Part of a race that was attacked and genocided by the Saiyajins on Freeza's orders. He was told that Goku and Vegeta work for Freeza so he found Dragon Balls on his own planet and asked the dragon to become the most powerful warrior in the universe.
The exchange was that it shortened his lifespan to like 3 years.
Some other dude names Gas then asks the Dragon Balls to be the strongest in the universe +1 so now he's the strongest. Granola learns that he was lied to, and teams up with Goku and Vegeta (who got a new Ultra Ego form) to fight Gas.
Then Freeza shows up, says he found a random planet with a Hyperbolic Time Chamber, shows his new Black Freeza form and one shots UI Goku and UE Vegeta after killing Gas.
At the end of the arc, Granola is still alive, but he has like 3 months left before he dies.
could he just wish for immortality next?
I don't think so, but maybe he can just ask Vegeta to snap his neck and then Goku can revive him with the Dragon Balls.
Probably Daiper.
Gotenks vs Super Buu is one of the best fights in the manga.
One of my girlfriends told me she wished she could fuse with me. That was one of the weirdest and nicest things anybody's every said to me. And no, she wasn't an anime watching weirdo girl.
Goten and trunks are so forgettable the thread isn’t even about them. Toriyama couidve made them important during Super or given a side story but didn’t. Their only moment to shine was a non canon Toei movie. Even the creator didn’t know what to do with them
At least the thread did discuss fusion. They need to separate Goten and Trunks like GT did and let them be their own characters.
CHADbidi won
worst db character of all time
Beerus is worse
this thread sucks wheres the pan, gigi, and venti posting? wheres the moe? why is no one calling each other cucks
because that's gay and dumb
Was this Trunks' and Goten's best appearance in the franchise?
>colored
Nothing sucks the soul out of that medium like adding colors to what's already perfect in grayscale.
I'm just going to say it. Super makes sense in the trajectory that the story was headed, especially after literally everyone failed in saving the world despite Goku wanting nothing more than to retire and pass the role of protector to a successor, forcing him to return from the dead and sending him spiraling down obsession with becoming stronger. Now, does that mean Super is as good as Z? Absolutely frick no, not at all. In fact, before seeing where the story goes post ToP I would discredit it entirely. But with the knowledge that Goku will eventually come to accept his saiyan heritage and fully combine it with his martial arts upbringing, as well as Vegeta/Bejita FINALLY stepping out of Goku's shadow to find his own path training under Beerus instead of perpetually playing catch up in a training style that never suited him to begin with, I can honestly say that Super began to find it's footing. Broly half-joining the Z fighters and Frieza actually becoming a serious threat again, to the point that he actually begins to lose interest in his petty rivalry with Goku/Bejita is also a genuinely interesting development. Same with Gohan and Piccolo rejoining the Z fighters as actually meaningful characters instead of leaving them available to rehash their same character arcs for another decade. These progressions in these characters finally renewed my interest in Dragon Ball as a series, even if they do make everything past Goku/Bejita training with Whis/Beerus and all the way up to ToP seem like pointless filler. But even so, even if everything up to these new developments is trivial build up, it all finally paying off with us actually getting to see the story progress for the first time since Beerus arrives was actually great, and I cannot for the life of me understand how DAIMA fits into all of this. That is all I have to say, thanks for reading my blog.
Super is still supposed to canonically lead to End of Z, so Goku will still try to train Uub to inherit his role as protector of Earth.
I honestly think Nuly is going to become a regular Z-Fighter.
Well said. I am excited that we are finally close to the End of Z.
Gotenks was great. The only people who hate Gotenks are homosexual Mexican edgelords.
so, 100% of the dragon ball fanbase?
I liked Gotenks, but he suffers from the fact that he's just step 7 of 19 that the Buu saga goes through before Buu actually gets defeated. I liked how cartoony he was, his whole style felt like Toriyama tapping into some OG Dragonball energy and just giving him wacky powers he thought were fun
GO BROLY
GO BROLY
GO BROLY
C'MON BROLY
The power difference was so big in the movie. Rewatching it, Broly lands literally 0 hits on Blue Gogeta.
I mean thank god. I understand it's hype to see broly get stronger but if he could put up a fight against gogeta blue then the earth was fricked
Him tanking so much stuff was already impressive
Yea agreed, Blue Gogeta should have been untouchable and it was good that he was.
>broly in super hero was after the moroh and granolah arc
i wonder if he got a strength boost training with whis or is he gonna get the piccolo treatment
It wasn't. Broly is right after ToP.
no it isn't
Yes, it is. Goku even mentions that. It goes ToP, Broly, Moro, Granolah and Super Hero.
yes, i said broly in super hero. he is on beerus planet at the start
Soundtrack was pure KINO.
It's insane how much of a drop in quality there was from broly to super hero
I liked both of them, Super Hero being more light hearted and using a different animation style isn't a bad thing.
super hero was good but i hope the next movie is 2D
Super hero was shit and I hope the next movie is 2D.
Super Hero was pretty fun. CGI was pretty good. Still prefer Shintani and Kubota's 2D animation