Anytime anyone criticizes this episode redditors pop out of the wordwork squaling about some youtube shit nobody has ever heard of. Its a famously bad episode because its the first time the show started messing with the foundations of the characters and what fundamentally made them humorous. Skinners funny because he commanded men and had their respect in war. But is utterly disrespected and clowned on by school children and has no control over his own life. Thats the joke. This episode is when the writers had to start reaching for plots. Its their actual jump the shark moment, "canon" or not. Even Groening said it was a bad idea
>Skinners funny because he commanded men and had their respect in war. But is utterly disrespected and clowned on by school children and has no control over his own life. Thats the joke.
It was also the truth for many vets.
No, it's a massively overhated episode, especially with the tongue in cheek ending that basically suggests it's not "canon" and doesn't matter anyway >Nobody will ever mention this again under penalty of TORTURE
It was an alright episode. Not great, but if you buy into the idea that it ended the "golden age" you're unironically getting filtered by a retrospective reddit criticism that didn't even exist at the time for audiences that watched it.
Who cares what 90s viewers think? 90s viewers killed Twin Peaks with their mental deficiencies. Almost as bad as modern audiences, pigs at a slop trawl as they are
>90s viewers killed Twin Peaks with their mental deficiencies
Twin Peaks should have been wrapped up in 1 season. Definitely didn't need to go beyond 2.
There are still several golden age seasons after this episode, and the episode itself is good. People just don't like their perspective of Skinner changing, even though it actually didn't affect anything.
Compare that to comic book guy getting a fricking asian wife. Big difference
>Compare that to comic book guy getting a fricking asian wife. Big difference
The problems are similar. Both asian gf and fake skinner undermine the characteristics that made the characters funny
It didn't really alter Skinner's history though, the only think it contradicted was the fact Agnes wasn't his mother, before then there was practically nothing else about his history beyond the fact he served in Vietnam.
It marked the official point of Skinner’s Flanderization. He was no longer a brooding, PTSD-ridden veteran that could still kick ass when required. He was now a pathetic mama’s boy milked for laughs.
>It marked the official point of Skinner’s Flanderization. He was no longer a brooding, PTSD-ridden veteran that could still kick ass when required. He was now a pathetic mama’s boy milked for laughs.
Naw, they did a Skinner as Norman Bates joke really early in the series.
>Ralph and Lisa's school presentation >stenchblossoms >why is grandpa here
I honestly don't think it's any worse or better than other "golden age" episodes
I can’t wait for Simpsons discourse in 2030 to be “The Golden Age really ended when they switched to HD” And in 2050 it will be “It’s good until they switched to AI voice actors after so and so died.”
Not that far, but I know several people who adamantly maintain that the show never declined after the initial drop off in season 9. They are idiots and they are wrong, but they exist.
I always love jokes like this where Springfield temporarily morphs just for the setup, like the simpson house being right next door to the power plant.
The Simpsons' house itself morphs all the time when needed for a joke. That's why looking for canon or continuity in the show is kind of a pointless exercise.
It was a shit episode but its hard to pinpoint one exact point where The Simpsons stopped being good. It was more of a gradual decline you noticed as the seasons went on. Season 10 or so was the beginning of the end when half the episodes became "Homer starts some gimmicky new job" or centered around a shoehorned celebrity guest
That's fine if you want to put the cutoff at 8, but if you just Google "Simpsons golden age" you'll find the vast majority of people place it at 9 or 10. It's purely subjective anyway, so who really cares
the episode is not as bad ad they say. it's a pretty funny episode, especially compared to modern Simpsons, it's just overhated because they took a huge dump on a beloved character's backstory just for a cheap laugh.
There are still a few good episode even after The Principal and the Pauper, but yeah, the golden age died around that time.
>the only good season 9 episode is Homer vs New York
there are several pretty good episodes other from that:
The Cartridge Family
The Joy of Sect
Lisa's Sax
Lisa The Skeptic
Treehouse of Horror
Dumbbell Indemnity
King of The Hill
Trash of the Titans
Lost our Lisa
Miracle on Evergreen Terrace
Das Bus
Simpson Tide
Lisa the Simpson
(I don't particularly like the last 3 but they are usually well received and still miles ahead most zombie Simpsons episodes)
basically half of the season is pretty much on par with season 8 (which was already declining tbqh)
Cartridge Family and Joy of Sect are literally two of my favorites. The opening soccer game sequence of Cartridge Family makes it a top 10 episode by itself.
it's almost incredible how many episodes from that era that appeared to be very meh when they first aired now look like comedy masterpieces compared to modern Simpsons.
like, sometimes I remember a very funny joke or gag from the Simpsons, and then I realize it's from season 9-12.
The impasse that paralyzed Cobain is precisely the one that Jameson described: like postmodern culture in general, Cobain found himself in "a world in chich stylistic innovation is no longer possible, where all that is left is to imitate dead styles, to speak through the mask and with the voices of the styles in the imaginary museum". Here, even success meant failure, since to succeed would only meant that you were the new meat on which the system could feed.
Better question is what's the worst Golden Age episode?
Assuming we go by the tightest definition of 'Golden Age' (Seasons 3 to 8) and ignore compilation episodes and Halloween specials.
For me, it's Bart's Inner Child - what a pile of forgettable crap outside of the first 5 minutes of trampoline shenanigans.
I feel like season 11 is the turning point. 9 and 10 have a handful of bad episodes, but they also have some really good ones. Over half of the episodes in 11 are mediocre at best. There's like maybe one really funny joke per episode on average at that point. It's not like I didn't enjoy it, it's just that it' became "slightly above average for an adult cartoon" instead of "the funniest show of all time."
season 9 is kinda good all things considered.
season 10-11-12 are painfully mediocre, but they have a few nice episodes and they're still watchable on average (I think 12 is even slightly better than 11).
everything after 12 is just plain bad apart from a few half decent episodes here and there.
around season 20 is when they stopped being pretty bad and became offensively bad.
The Simpsons didn't have some sudden precipitous dropoff. There are many beloved episodes that came after this one, but it did mark a change in the approach to writing the show that later tanked the quality.
It absolutely did. Golden Era was nonstop quality episodes. Season 9 marked a huge drop in quality that was never recovered. > There are many beloved episodes that came after this one
There are a few beloved episodes past S9 ep1, and the very best of those are comparable to mid-bottom level episodes of golden Era.
It did have a big drop off, I've seen the first 8 seasons multiple times and every time I get to season 9 it's like "what the frick is this garbage?" and I lose interest.
they had many good opportunities to end the series.
legendary ending: Homer vs New York City (even if we lose a few really good episodes aired after that)
great ending: end of season 9
really nice, almost perfect ending: Behind the Laughter (end of season 11)
pretty good ending: end of season 12
decent ending: The Simpsons Movie (it came out around season 20)
they missed the last chance of ending the series while still maintaining a small dose of dignity with that.
All I can say is that Homer Badman is the absolute pinnacle. I feel like I'm getting a real laugh out loud moment every 30 seconds in that episode, with even higher concentrations of LOLs in certain parts. Modern Simpsons you're lucky to get a single LOL per episode, if that.
Homer’s enemy is by far the best ever Simpsons episode. That’s the one with Frank Grimes, who’s lampshading some of the absurdities of the show while also managing to make them even funnier. And Homer’s completely oblivious to the fact that Grimey is raging with jealousy and hate at his unearned great life
Behind the Laughter. The Simpsons has been trending down for about two seasons at that point, but it was the exact end. Everything after that was as if it was a different show. That said, it does make Behind the Laughter a perfectly cromulent series finale.
No. And stop believing shitty youtube essays.
Anytime anyone criticizes this episode redditors pop out of the wordwork squaling about some youtube shit nobody has ever heard of. Its a famously bad episode because its the first time the show started messing with the foundations of the characters and what fundamentally made them humorous. Skinners funny because he commanded men and had their respect in war. But is utterly disrespected and clowned on by school children and has no control over his own life. Thats the joke. This episode is when the writers had to start reaching for plots. Its their actual jump the shark moment, "canon" or not. Even Groening said it was a bad idea
>Skinners funny because he commanded men and had their respect in war. But is utterly disrespected and clowned on by school children and has no control over his own life. Thats the joke.
It was also the truth for many vets.
No, it's a massively overhated episode, especially with the tongue in cheek ending that basically suggests it's not "canon" and doesn't matter anyway
>Nobody will ever mention this again under penalty of TORTURE
And Snowball 2
>thats kind of a cheat isn't it Lisa?
>i don't know ARMIN
>20 minute torture and death of Lisa ending
kino
>envisioning Lisa in the e-girl Torture machine
If it were the 80s you’d get a job offer from Enix
Massively hated by Harry Shearer
It had funny jokes but set a terrible precedent for the show
it had funny moments I just think of it as non-cannon like treehouse
>Up yours, children
>Armin’s copy of Swank
Anything else?
Still might be my favorite Skinner moment, either that or "oh, there's mother now... watching me..."
I think of that quote all the time whenever I leave work.
You must be a teacher.
no it's one of the best episodes ever stop regurgitating gay reddit opinions
I hated that episode too as a child
>worrying about canon in a goofy cartoon
By that logic the Simpsons has yet to explain why there are two Homers
That was Guy Incognito
It was an alright episode. Not great, but if you buy into the idea that it ended the "golden age" you're unironically getting filtered by a retrospective reddit criticism that didn't even exist at the time for audiences that watched it.
>that didn't even exist at the time for audiences that watched it.
For the audience that watched it at the time, the golden age ended in season 5.
Who cares what 90s viewers think? 90s viewers killed Twin Peaks with their mental deficiencies. Almost as bad as modern audiences, pigs at a slop trawl as they are
Makes sense, the audience at the time would mostly have been gen xers and very early millennials.
>90s viewers killed Twin Peaks with their mental deficiencies
Twin Peaks should have been wrapped up in 1 season. Definitely didn't need to go beyond 2.
You're exactly the kind of idiot I'm talking about, even with decades of retrospect to ruminate on.
Smithers, I'm posting!
What, again?
Yes!
*Canned audience laughter*
There are still several golden age seasons after this episode, and the episode itself is good. People just don't like their perspective of Skinner changing, even though it actually didn't affect anything.
Compare that to comic book guy getting a fricking asian wife. Big difference
>Compare that to comic book guy getting a fricking asian wife. Big difference
The problems are similar. Both asian gf and fake skinner undermine the characteristics that made the characters funny
It didn't really alter Skinner's history though, the only think it contradicted was the fact Agnes wasn't his mother, before then there was practically nothing else about his history beyond the fact he served in Vietnam.
It marked the official point of Skinner’s Flanderization. He was no longer a brooding, PTSD-ridden veteran that could still kick ass when required. He was now a pathetic mama’s boy milked for laughs.
>It marked the official point of Skinner’s Flanderization. He was no longer a brooding, PTSD-ridden veteran that could still kick ass when required. He was now a pathetic mama’s boy milked for laughs.
Naw, they did a Skinner as Norman Bates joke really early in the series.
Except that it's a cartoon show that always return to the status quo, so nothing actually changed, you're just a sperg.
>Ralph and Lisa's school presentation
>stenchblossoms
>why is grandpa here
I honestly don't think it's any worse or better than other "golden age" episodes
Season 9 is pretty widely considered to be the end of the golden years
I can’t wait for Simpsons discourse in 2030 to be “The Golden Age really ended when they switched to HD” And in 2050 it will be “It’s good until they switched to AI voice actors after so and so died.”
I doubt there's anyone who believes Simpsons episodes made in the 2010s are better than the 90s seasons
Not that far, but I know several people who adamantly maintain that the show never declined after the initial drop off in season 9. They are idiots and they are wrong, but they exist.
I don't know any such people myself but I do remember normals still liking it in the teen seasons.
I always love jokes like this where Springfield temporarily morphs just for the setup, like the simpson house being right next door to the power plant.
The Simpsons' house itself morphs all the time when needed for a joke. That's why looking for canon or continuity in the show is kind of a pointless exercise.
It was a shit episode but its hard to pinpoint one exact point where The Simpsons stopped being good. It was more of a gradual decline you noticed as the seasons went on. Season 10 or so was the beginning of the end when half the episodes became "Homer starts some gimmicky new job" or centered around a shoehorned celebrity guest
That's fine if you want to put the cutoff at 8, but if you just Google "Simpsons golden age" you'll find the vast majority of people place it at 9 or 10. It's purely subjective anyway, so who really cares
I thought he was Jean Valjean all the time
the episode is not as bad ad they say. it's a pretty funny episode, especially compared to modern Simpsons, it's just overhated because they took a huge dump on a beloved character's backstory just for a cheap laugh.
There are still a few good episode even after The Principal and the Pauper, but yeah, the golden age died around that time.
no,that happened when Phil Hartman was taken from us
Somewhere between this episode and the Spring Break episode.
there is no way to know unless we do a bunch of expensive tests that make me rich.
>the only good season 9 episode is Homer vs New York
there are several pretty good episodes other from that:
The Cartridge Family
The Joy of Sect
Lisa's Sax
Lisa The Skeptic
Treehouse of Horror
Dumbbell Indemnity
King of The Hill
Trash of the Titans
Lost our Lisa
Miracle on Evergreen Terrace
Das Bus
Simpson Tide
Lisa the Simpson
(I don't particularly like the last 3 but they are usually well received and still miles ahead most zombie Simpsons episodes)
basically half of the season is pretty much on par with season 8 (which was already declining tbqh)
Cartridge Family and Joy of Sect are literally two of my favorites. The opening soccer game sequence of Cartridge Family makes it a top 10 episode by itself.
it's almost incredible how many episodes from that era that appeared to be very meh when they first aired now look like comedy masterpieces compared to modern Simpsons.
like, sometimes I remember a very funny joke or gag from the Simpsons, and then I realize it's from season 9-12.
The impasse that paralyzed Cobain is precisely the one that Jameson described: like postmodern culture in general, Cobain found himself in "a world in chich stylistic innovation is no longer possible, where all that is left is to imitate dead styles, to speak through the mask and with the voices of the styles in the imaginary museum". Here, even success meant failure, since to succeed would only meant that you were the new meat on which the system could feed.
>a bloo bloo my art made me an under 30 millionaire adored by hundreds of thousands of people bloo bloo life so hard muh integrity bloo bloo
Oh god no, my millions of fans love me and I have total artistic freedom and financial stability. Im so tired of it all!
Better question is what's the worst Golden Age episode?
Assuming we go by the tightest definition of 'Golden Age' (Seasons 3 to 8) and ignore compilation episodes and Halloween specials.
For me, it's Bart's Inner Child - what a pile of forgettable crap outside of the first 5 minutes of trampoline shenanigans.
Lisa's Substitute for me
Marge be not proud,imo
That's one of my faves 🙁
it's good
>Why do you think I took you to all those Police Academy movies? For fun? Well I didn't hear anyone laughing!
>that boy must have some terrible parents
>SHUT UP, MOM
Any Lisa episode
the Shary Bobbins episode, season 8.
but to me the golden age is 3-7.
the decline started around season 7 and in season 8 it was already evident.
The Simpsons decline began when it became self-referential rather than a satire of modern problems.
I feel like season 11 is the turning point. 9 and 10 have a handful of bad episodes, but they also have some really good ones. Over half of the episodes in 11 are mediocre at best. There's like maybe one really funny joke per episode on average at that point. It's not like I didn't enjoy it, it's just that it' became "slightly above average for an adult cartoon" instead of "the funniest show of all time."
season 9 is kinda good all things considered.
season 10-11-12 are painfully mediocre, but they have a few nice episodes and they're still watchable on average (I think 12 is even slightly better than 11).
everything after 12 is just plain bad apart from a few half decent episodes here and there.
around season 20 is when they stopped being pretty bad and became offensively bad.
It peaked at season 6. Golden Age lasted until season 8. It was still funny until season 10. It was zombified by season 12
The Simpsons didn't have some sudden precipitous dropoff. There are many beloved episodes that came after this one, but it did mark a change in the approach to writing the show that later tanked the quality.
It absolutely did. Golden Era was nonstop quality episodes. Season 9 marked a huge drop in quality that was never recovered.
> There are many beloved episodes that came after this one
There are a few beloved episodes past S9 ep1, and the very best of those are comparable to mid-bottom level episodes of golden Era.
It did have a big drop off, I've seen the first 8 seasons multiple times and every time I get to season 9 it's like "what the frick is this garbage?" and I lose interest.
The Simpsons Movie was the series finale
they had many good opportunities to end the series.
legendary ending: Homer vs New York City (even if we lose a few really good episodes aired after that)
great ending: end of season 9
really nice, almost perfect ending: Behind the Laughter (end of season 11)
pretty good ending: end of season 12
decent ending: The Simpsons Movie (it came out around season 20)
they missed the last chance of ending the series while still maintaining a small dose of dignity with that.
All I can say is that Homer Badman is the absolute pinnacle. I feel like I'm getting a real laugh out loud moment every 30 seconds in that episode, with even higher concentrations of LOLs in certain parts. Modern Simpsons you're lucky to get a single LOL per episode, if that.
Homer’s enemy is by far the best ever Simpsons episode. That’s the one with Frank Grimes, who’s lampshading some of the absurdities of the show while also managing to make them even funnier. And Homer’s completely oblivious to the fact that Grimey is raging with jealousy and hate at his unearned great life
It was the beginning of the decline
Behind the Laughter. The Simpsons has been trending down for about two seasons at that point, but it was the exact end. Everything after that was as if it was a different show. That said, it does make Behind the Laughter a perfectly cromulent series finale.
It was certainly the first Simpsons episode I remember disliking as a kid.
No, to me the Golden Age died with Maude Flanders
The golden age was already going by mid season 6 and it was gone by season 7.
For me, it was killing maude which I think was the next season. But yeah even in 8 you can start to see the cracks
That was in season 10? I thought it was way later just because how moronic it was
It was 11. The same season as "stupid sexy flanders."
Oh, yeah that season is just garbage all around.
What's the best post PatP episode?
If later on in the same season counts; The Joy of Sect
If it has to be post Season 9 then probably Behind the Laughter.
For me it's Trash of the Titans or the Trouble with Trillions.
No, the scene by scene dialogue is good like all golden age simpsons, it was just a bad concept for an episode.