If people elect me to the House of Representatives I'll make sure to stymie Korean military aid and reopen negotiations with the DPRK so we can put as much pressure on the asiatics as possible. Imagine us forcing them to provide BTS concerts free of charge to Baltimore and Buffalo and all the deindustrialized cities of the republic.
It's the reach and the app that they really have on any alternative. Their reader is pretty good for the kind of infinity scroll that people get memed into loving, plus you know you'll at least get more people than you would trying to click a link you're shilling on social media.
>It's the reach
So you don't actually care about what you're making at all, right?
You just care about the attention it gets, whether it's good or bad? The praise that comes with it? Maybe even the money?
If anyone thinks like this, they're not an artist. Not at all.
The true value and primary purpose of art is that it has absolutely no true reason to exist. It exists simply because we want it to exist; because we find joy in creating it.
The secondary purpose of art is for it to be seen by others, because they may find a similar joy in learning about it, as we - its creators - do as we make it.
An actual artist would be as happy and as overjoyed to have one follower, one silent reader, as they would ten thousand people clamoring and fighting each other for them.
I am glad that there are corporations who seek to prey on fake "artists" like this.
I hope it burns them to cinders, that they will never dare to pick up a pen or brush ever again, unless they're ready to emerge from their cocoon of masturbatory, egocentric self-inflation and embrace the reality of what art actually means.
>Low barrier of entry to both content creators and readers >Shit terms
You didn't think there weren't going to be tradeoffs, did you? There was always going to be a compromise.
When you allow practically everyone to publish a comic, a great percentage of those comics are going to be money losers. So in order for the business to be functional, they have to spread out the wins and losses to everyone. That includes getting all rights to print and merchandise on bad terms so that a few hits can subsidize everything else.
This is the "equity" kids these days love to talk about so much. Do well, or do poorly? Doesn't matter, you all get the same shit terms.
Look, if you're legitimately worried about this, then don't give them your best material. Use Webtoons as a stepping stone, and get the frick out of there the moment you think you can play with the big dogs or strike it out on your own. This is the same as any job.
ComicFury allow for free hosting without all of the shady deals.
And if your comic is actually of good enough quality, Hiveworks provide good promotion and even some degree of management without losing control of your IP.
That came across wrong, so let me rephrase that. Stop *just* complaining. Go. Leave. If you complain but stay with Webtoons, they will continue doing what they're doing. They would know your complaints are empty threats.
There is no fair or unfair. Creators collectively have to reset expectations. That starts with you ditching their service and showing everyone else there is a better tradeoff to be found somewhere else..
It's beyond complaining. It's about denouncing and informing other potential creators who might not be as savvy. It's about getting as many people as possible to learn about the shitty deals Webtoon can do.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
this doesn't work because webtoons isn't a creator-owned platform, the series that actually bring them money are studios that they own or work with, and the licensing deals they have with other large businesses to make animated/live-action adaptations.
even if every teenage weeaboo fujoshi stopped selling their souls to them then they'd still make money and they'd still be far bigger than any alternative, which does matter for the majority of people who only post to be seen and not because they want to make anything.
the only reasonable thing to ask people to do and expect a real return is to post on webtoons if you have to but never sign up to be an original. that way you get the benefits and they don't own your series.
>We will complain about this but continue to suckle at their teat
Okay. That's fine. Really, that's fine. If that's how the majority feels, then that tells me they're at the right place in terms of business strategy.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but continue to suckle at their teat
Not what was said.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're staying with them, just avoiding applying for an original series. Which is optional. So nothing has changed, nothing will change, and they've made made the right calculation.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You're staying with them
Not what was said.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's all about views in the social media game. People aren't going to find your book through osmosis.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
this isn't a meritocracy and there's no such thing as voting with your dollar.
no amount of artists moving away from webtoons would kill them, going anywhere else that isn't another major corporation would fall flat like every youtube/twitter/facebook clone does and you're wrong if you think otherwise. or do you think it's just a happy coincidence that tapas, another korean corporation, is the only real competitor to webtoons?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's all about views in the social media game. People aren't going to find your book through osmosis.
this doesn't work because webtoons isn't a creator-owned platform, the series that actually bring them money are studios that they own or work with, and the licensing deals they have with other large businesses to make animated/live-action adaptations.
even if every teenage weeaboo fujoshi stopped selling their souls to them then they'd still make money and they'd still be far bigger than any alternative, which does matter for the majority of people who only post to be seen and not because they want to make anything.
the only reasonable thing to ask people to do and expect a real return is to post on webtoons if you have to but never sign up to be an original. that way you get the benefits and they don't own your series.
webtton exists because of a mix of predatory advertising, people being on their phones far more, and the korean government investing in korean culture globally like with kpop.
I think it's well know that Webtoon had first dibs interms of publishing physical books but I've never heard of them being able to buy the actual IP of the book.
I feel because most well planned out webtoons have finite ends it could work out in the creator's favor 99/100 where they can finish a book and continue to get paid and worry about self publishing.
But if we're talking a phenomenon that can land a movie deal, video game or merchandise line, that person could be screwed.
Creators should definitely hire an agent to go over the contract and get an estimate on the value of their IP.
Remember when Smackjeevees was a quite liked webcomic host only to be bought and competently ruined in just a few days which resulted in running out of business?
>Shut up and host my comic for free giving me access to your massive user base so I can abandon your platform the moment notice.
why are artists so entitled?
Cinemaphile is always so funny. Constantly railing against corporations, but the minute someone actually outside the bubble points out something fricked up, it's time to suck corporate dick. Truly poisoned minds.
Just to warp you a little extra, here's a double reddit space. No, I don't "have to go back."
Not bait, Black person. This site has a psychosis where people will laugh their ass off at companies, and call them israelites, but the minute someone says, "hey, maybe stop actually supporting them," you gays go all ancap.
Here's a more fleshed out article with an official response from Webtoon and also a wider overview for context:
https://www.comicsbeat.com/webtoon-originals-contract-draws-criticism-from-creators/
It's worth noting that Webtoon has been notorious for grinding people to the bone with predatory contracts for their originals program before. Nightmare stories pop up every now and then about the workload and treatment. There was a survey done in Korea last year that found full-time webcomic artists suffered higher rates of mental and health illnesses (https://www.cbr.com/korea-occupational-agency-report-tragic-picture-health-webtoon-artist/) which lines up with the horror stories.
I'd also point out that while Webtoon is a high profile exploiter this isn't unique to them and you'll find cases everywhere over the years. Just think about how people like Jack Kirby and Alan Moore got fricked by shady contracts and legal maneuvers by companies with overwhelmingly more resources at their disposal.
Did the "You have to be 18 to post here" rule get removed or something?
Well, they certainly seem to have an open door policy on South Korean 50 jeon party shills.
If people elect me to the House of Representatives I'll make sure to stymie Korean military aid and reopen negotiations with the DPRK so we can put as much pressure on the asiatics as possible. Imagine us forcing them to provide BTS concerts free of charge to Baltimore and Buffalo and all the deindustrialized cities of the republic.
You have my vote good sir, as long as i get a free choson peasant wife
Man, this makes Images’ vanity press model look way better. Are there any rising competitors to webtoon?
>competitors to webtoon
Just set up your own website and put images on it. You don't need anyone's help to publish a fricking webcomic.
It's the reach and the app that they really have on any alternative. Their reader is pretty good for the kind of infinity scroll that people get memed into loving, plus you know you'll at least get more people than you would trying to click a link you're shilling on social media.
>It's the reach
So you don't actually care about what you're making at all, right?
You just care about the attention it gets, whether it's good or bad? The praise that comes with it? Maybe even the money?
If anyone thinks like this, they're not an artist. Not at all.
The true value and primary purpose of art is that it has absolutely no true reason to exist. It exists simply because we want it to exist; because we find joy in creating it.
The secondary purpose of art is for it to be seen by others, because they may find a similar joy in learning about it, as we - its creators - do as we make it.
An actual artist would be as happy and as overjoyed to have one follower, one silent reader, as they would ten thousand people clamoring and fighting each other for them.
I am glad that there are corporations who seek to prey on fake "artists" like this.
I hope it burns them to cinders, that they will never dare to pick up a pen or brush ever again, unless they're ready to emerge from their cocoon of masturbatory, egocentric self-inflation and embrace the reality of what art actually means.
>Are there any rising competitors to webtoon?
Tapas
GlobalComix
Some artists want their comics be serialized
Not all of them want be independent or indie forever
Isn't Tapas entirely run at a loss and bankrolled by a rich furry, or am I thinking of another site?
idk if it counts but Newgrounds implemented webcomic style submissions for user art galleries last year. at least it's an alternative.
>Low barrier of entry to both content creators and readers
>Shit terms
You didn't think there weren't going to be tradeoffs, did you? There was always going to be a compromise.
When you allow practically everyone to publish a comic, a great percentage of those comics are going to be money losers. So in order for the business to be functional, they have to spread out the wins and losses to everyone. That includes getting all rights to print and merchandise on bad terms so that a few hits can subsidize everything else.
This is the "equity" kids these days love to talk about so much. Do well, or do poorly? Doesn't matter, you all get the same shit terms.
Look, if you're legitimately worried about this, then don't give them your best material. Use Webtoons as a stepping stone, and get the frick out of there the moment you think you can play with the big dogs or strike it out on your own. This is the same as any job.
You are talking to a bunch of unironic commies, and not the good kind like N. Koreans
>You are talking to a bunch of unironic commies
I am aware. Which is why I said this is the equity they wanted.
>You are talking to a bunch of unironic commies
?
or is this a wokism culture war thing
ComicFury allow for free hosting without all of the shady deals.
And if your comic is actually of good enough quality, Hiveworks provide good promotion and even some degree of management without losing control of your IP.
Good, then go there and stop complaining about Webtoons. Or is there a tradeoff such as not having the same reach?
>Good, then go there and stop complaining about Webtoons.
>stop complaining
That came across wrong, so let me rephrase that. Stop *just* complaining. Go. Leave. If you complain but stay with Webtoons, they will continue doing what they're doing. They would know your complaints are empty threats.
There is no fair or unfair. Creators collectively have to reset expectations. That starts with you ditching their service and showing everyone else there is a better tradeoff to be found somewhere else..
It's beyond complaining. It's about denouncing and informing other potential creators who might not be as savvy. It's about getting as many people as possible to learn about the shitty deals Webtoon can do.
>We will complain about this but continue to suckle at their teat
Okay. That's fine. Really, that's fine. If that's how the majority feels, then that tells me they're at the right place in terms of business strategy.
>but continue to suckle at their teat
Not what was said.
You're staying with them, just avoiding applying for an original series. Which is optional. So nothing has changed, nothing will change, and they've made made the right calculation.
>You're staying with them
Not what was said.
It's all about views in the social media game. People aren't going to find your book through osmosis.
this isn't a meritocracy and there's no such thing as voting with your dollar.
no amount of artists moving away from webtoons would kill them, going anywhere else that isn't another major corporation would fall flat like every youtube/twitter/facebook clone does and you're wrong if you think otherwise. or do you think it's just a happy coincidence that tapas, another korean corporation, is the only real competitor to webtoons?
Let's bring back webrings.
this doesn't work because webtoons isn't a creator-owned platform, the series that actually bring them money are studios that they own or work with, and the licensing deals they have with other large businesses to make animated/live-action adaptations.
even if every teenage weeaboo fujoshi stopped selling their souls to them then they'd still make money and they'd still be far bigger than any alternative, which does matter for the majority of people who only post to be seen and not because they want to make anything.
the only reasonable thing to ask people to do and expect a real return is to post on webtoons if you have to but never sign up to be an original. that way you get the benefits and they don't own your series.
How is South Korea more gay and subversive than the actual communist dictatorship?
>attempt to make a webcomic
>don't make your own website
They were always doomed
Seriously, I never understood how that platform became the norm in the last five years
webtton exists because of a mix of predatory advertising, people being on their phones far more, and the korean government investing in korean culture globally like with kpop.
who the frick uses own sites these days, that's some late 2000s shit. It's all about social media platforms now
>who the frick uses own sites these days
People who retain a modicum of self respect.
I think it's well know that Webtoon had first dibs interms of publishing physical books but I've never heard of them being able to buy the actual IP of the book.
I feel because most well planned out webtoons have finite ends it could work out in the creator's favor 99/100 where they can finish a book and continue to get paid and worry about self publishing.
But if we're talking a phenomenon that can land a movie deal, video game or merchandise line, that person could be screwed.
Creators should definitely hire an agent to go over the contract and get an estimate on the value of their IP.
huh. i didn't know Webtoon owned Wattpad.
that makes a lot of sense, actually.
Remember when Smackjeevees was a quite liked webcomic host only to be bought and competently ruined in just a few days which resulted in running out of business?
Too long didn’t read, hope that works out for you tho
>Shut up and host my comic for free giving me access to your massive user base so I can abandon your platform the moment notice.
why are artists so entitled?
This is how webcomcis have always done and it's a good thing.
Anyone else remember Keenspot?
>Anyone else remember Keenspot?
Cinemaphile is always so funny. Constantly railing against corporations, but the minute someone actually outside the bubble points out something fricked up, it's time to suck corporate dick. Truly poisoned minds.
Just to warp you a little extra, here's a double reddit space. No, I don't "have to go back."
>
Not bait, Black person. This site has a psychosis where people will laugh their ass off at companies, and call them israelites, but the minute someone says, "hey, maybe stop actually supporting them," you gays go all ancap.
Here's a more fleshed out article with an official response from Webtoon and also a wider overview for context:
https://www.comicsbeat.com/webtoon-originals-contract-draws-criticism-from-creators/
It's worth noting that Webtoon has been notorious for grinding people to the bone with predatory contracts for their originals program before. Nightmare stories pop up every now and then about the workload and treatment. There was a survey done in Korea last year that found full-time webcomic artists suffered higher rates of mental and health illnesses (https://www.cbr.com/korea-occupational-agency-report-tragic-picture-health-webtoon-artist/) which lines up with the horror stories.
I'd also point out that while Webtoon is a high profile exploiter this isn't unique to them and you'll find cases everywhere over the years. Just think about how people like Jack Kirby and Alan Moore got fricked by shady contracts and legal maneuvers by companies with overwhelmingly more resources at their disposal.
Sort of sounds like they've found a way to export and update the mangaka lifestyle for web artists
Then don't sign it pussy
Webtoons is pretty much a webcomics monopoly. If you don't publish there, nobody cares.