The ring still affects anyone near it so no, it wouldn’t have worked. Also the ring’s weight physically changes as it gets closer to the cracks of doom, thus why Sam had to carry him in the first place
moron. Gandalf could always handle it for a time. The difference here being that putting it in an envelop and immediately giving that envelope to Frodo is quite different to taking the Ring to keep it. As for the latter it's literally as Gandalf said, he would be inclined to use it for the good, and that "using it" what would corrupt him. Just how the Dorfs were never corrupted by wielding their rings rather rarely, whereas the human kings fell to ringwraithdom very fast because they always write the rings. You absolute fricking moron.
>the eagles use pinpoint precision they mastered during the 1941 bombing of pearl harbor to drop the ring into the chasm exactly 10 feet from the inner cliff >gollum who hasn't learned the double jump leaps over to catch the mouse but can't make it back and falls to his death along with the mouse who he has an intense thumb war with over the ring during their final moments
it basically writes itself
The ring's effect is cumulative. Frodo was carrying that shit with minimal breaks the entire journey. And Samwise just happens to fricking love his buddy more than anything the stupid fricking ring can offer. It's not pithy and clever to come up with monday night quarterbacking.
>Just ignoring the part where Sam directly carried the ring itself and gave it back to Frodo after?
That's how clickbait works. Not to mention, how long had Frodo been carrying the ring when Sam finally carried him. These articles are written by midwits who need to get paid by publishing.
This, not like he was affected at first second by it, just interested, the ring corrupts, not turns yourself into homicidal at first touch. morons shouldn't be able to be close to a keyboard
Is that true? I don’t remember the movies saying that it got physically harder to carry as they got closer to its destruction though that is a cool concept
In the books the ring gets heavier as the journey progresses. It’s why it has to be around someone’s neck since otherwise it would find a way to escape
This happens in the movies as well. You can see the damage the rings chain does to Frodos neck as they get closer to Mt Doom. Its just never explicitly stated and the audience is expected to infer it by using their eyes and brain. Unfortunately modern audiences are stupid.
Nah, they explicily say it at one point in the movies. I think it's at the beginning of RotK.
I'm sure of it because I aw the movies for the first time last week and I was wondering why the righ wasn't changing size since it was bigger when Sauron had it on and then Frodo said it was getting physically heavier. But I watched the extended editions. Maybe it was a scene that was cut from the theatrical releases.
They showed it instead of saying it. IRL the prodction team had two rings, the small one that Frodo had dangling on his neck and one basketball sized one for close ups and scenes where the ring falls to the floor.
who keeps making all these lotr threads? theres been 20+ the last 24 hours
LoR was the point where movies as a whole peaked so why would anyone bother with anything that came after that.
Sam is actually literally the only creature in middle earth the ring couldn't corrupt. You now realise that Sam is the actual hero of the story and gets the best ending. The brainlet op doesn't understand this and misses the fact that everyone around Frodo is affected by the ring except Sam.
There's a short bit where Sam feels that if he would just use the ring he could make all of Mordor a beautiful garden, but decides that gardening should require effort and anyway that would be too big of a garden for him to take care of.
Sam actually realises that he's just a lowly peasant and the idea of him owning land is silly. God rewards his deference to his betters with a wife and civil servant job.
>be Tolkein >clearly a monarchist >everyone great/powerful/wise in LOTR is because of hereditary blood or birth, like Denethor, Aragon >IRL his monarchs are now talking about transforming into tampons and inserting themselves into women, their frozen todgers and getting fricked by horse riding hags behind bars
I think if Tolkien were alive today he'd rapidly rewrite LOTR so that all kings are clowns
kings did worse shit than any of that in the histories that he was no doubt aware of. he didn’t like bullies at the end of the day, or people who were obsessively controlling. someone like henry II would be an ideal king for tolkien, litigious and full of energy but lassez faire on each area of his kingdom governing itself. also showing contrition and making a public spectacle of his guilt when he ordered something grisly be done
I think you should go back to synagogue. for frick's sake, deep friendship or deep love between friends does not equate homosexual love. it's a different word in ancient greek
bombadil doesnt give shit. bearmanpig doesnt give a shit. the ents dont give a shit. elves and dwarfs barely care. its really only human that are hung up on the one gay ring
Galadriel and the One Ring scene.
She gave a lot of fricks.
Powerful people like immortal elves can't be near the ring too much or they'll go all Trump. Legolas act a lot more 'human' than any other elf we see, so that might explain how he was able to be near it for the time he was. Or it's because he isn't big on magics, he's more physical. Even Arwen act more Elfic than Legolas in the movies.
Gandalf is too powerful too. Based Boromir gets semi-corrupted because he's a future King and leader. Aragorn is too much of a not-my-kingdom little b***h at that point to be easily corrupted. Then Frodo goes away and Aragorn embraces his King-ness. But if he did that when Frodo was there, he would have pulled a Boromir too.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>you can have the ring if you want, miss Galadriel >no, thank you
yeah she cared a whole lot. definitely less willpower than a fricking hobbit rube
4 months ago
Anonymous
Idiot. You forgot the whole fricking test of will she barely wins because it doesn't fit your little moronic narrative.
Almost everything on Middle Earth would be corrupted by the ring if it was exposed to it for long enough. Hobbits are resistant to an extent because they're low IQ morons who just want to chill and have no stress but they're still corruptible. The only being that wouldn't be corrupted eventually is Tom Bombadil but he's not immune to Sauron's power if he was united with the ring and eventually he'd be overwhelmed.
4 months ago
Anonymous
The issue with Bombadil wasn't that he would get corrupted, it's that even if he could be convinced to take it, he'd put it somewhere and forget about it, and it would find another bearer.
Galadriel literally says to Frodo that the Fellowship will break due to the rings influence and that Boromir is already corrupted. It's the entire reason Frodo sets out on his own. I know you're shitposting also. 6/10, made me reply.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Idiot. You forgot the whole fricking test of will she barely wins because it doesn't fit your little moronic narrative.
the ring is supposed to have more influence over stronger beings and shes already under the influence of a ring and she still resists it. boromir is corrupted because he is a human pussy, which is my original point, the ring really only affects humans. everyone else keeps their cool for the entire film series. even gollum mostly keeps his shit together until the end.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Try harder. Shitposting should at least be logical and somewhat believable.
>Tom Bombadil >creature older than time just prances around the forest like a jolly drunk uncle singing goofy songs
I used to hate those chapters but they've really grown on me
>You now realise that Sam is the actual hero of the story
There is no one hero. That's the entire point of the Fellowship. I hate when people undermine Frodo's work because they think it's cool and contrarian to believe Sam was the real hero. It shows a lack of understanding of the story and the same cynicism that is present in tweets like in the OP image.
The ring weighed heavily on Frodos mind. It drained him of his will to complete his mission. It wasn't a physical weight. By this point they're starving, thirsty, haven't slept for more than a few hours, they're breathing noxious fumes and have been marching for weeks. Frodo is a well off gentleman unaccustomed to heavy physical exertion. He couldn't make that trek, ring or no ring.
It´s "easier" to find if it doesn´t have a carrier
Some people really want to frick animals or chimps or w/e but the mouse would have fallen prey of casualty
A moure or a N----r, doesn´t matter
I'm sure some grug valar there can smash it with a super duper valar hammer or idk shoot it into space or something.
Or maybe Eru can turn the ring into a small bug and they can step on it.
The Valar are an order of magnitude stronger than Maiar like Gandalf or Sauron. Any one of them could easily defeat Sauron, let alone all of them together with all the Maiar and souped up Elven armies, but they decided to intervene as little and indirectly as possible and let Middle Earth be independent and solve its problems on its own. It's entirely possible that they'd intervene if Sauron got the ring and was close to winning
>let alone resist its influence when they get there
he was right, but this presupposes the idea someone might try destroy it. so he did conceive that people could try to destroy it but he thought that it would be impossible to carry out. so yes he was right.
What the frick do you think the watcher in the statue was, if not a guard?
Oh that’s right, because you haven’t fricking read the book have you? Fricking cringe naynay ass zoomzoom
>world where random mine entrances are barred by enchanted doors
That wasn't the main entrance. It was the backdoor. Nobody had used it to enter in ages. The book they found first describes them battling the Orcs at the main gate. The last part mentions the West gate (the magic door) and the Watcher keeping them pinned and unable to escape.
There are guards including a giant spider. Also his entire army was in the way. He was tricked because Aragorn was baiting him into an attack and all but saying he had the ring. Sauron had zero clue they were planning to destroy it, he assumed everyone was power hungry like him and that he had made the ring too tempting to do anything but use it. Both the book and movie confirm this was sound logic because Frodo fails right at the end and God has to do the final push to destroy it, if God hadn't intervened Sauron would have gotten his ring back from Gollum and his armies would've killed Aragorn and pals.
putting guards on mt doom would be like putting a padlock on your oven, because someone might break into your house and use your oven to burn all your cash
Saurons flaw was it never even occurred to him they would destroy it
He was always worried an Elf lord or Gandalf would try to wield the Ring. And then when he learned of Aragorn he was concerned he would use it
That's such a moronic take. Also, isn't giving the ring to a lesser inoffensive creature the whole point of giving it to a hobbit?
Twitter homosexual is just paraphrasing the story.
Whose to say he wasn't affected? He was affected by it in the whole journey just by being in its vicinity. In the books he fantasizes about taking the ring and leading an army against Mordor with a flaming sword.
Sorry you're illiterate. My point still stands that it was affecting him and you are just too moronic to get that when it's stated it does affect everyone in the vicinity. Hobbits just less so. Did you need a scene of Sam eyeballing it with bloodlust to understand that despite it already being explicitly said it affects everyone?
i am well able to make inferences but in the films nobody reacts to the ring unless they can see it and sam barely reacts even when he holds it after the shelob incident. setting aside that evil shelob doesnt want the ring for no reason, its quite proper to infer that sam is mostly immune to the rings influence in the films
People think Sauron was the bad guy in the movie/books.
That's a moronic take. It was the One Ring.
It had a will of it's own. It was established that anyone with great power wearing it and corrupted would the the equal, or even stronger than Sauron.
It only wanted to get back to Sauron because he was strong. But he would probably preffered Galadriel as a wearer. Or based Tom. But Tom's curruption would probably be about spicy food and anal sex with his wife.
Sauron was a Maiar (basically an angel). One of the stronger ones. He was corrupted by his desire to have order in the universe and became the big bad's 2nd in command. When the Valar captured and imprisioned Morgoth (the big bad), Sauron became the new big bad. His identity as a necromancer was a disguise for the body he was able to conjure up after losing the ring and gathering his strength for a few millenia.
Tolkien actually thought about this and then realised it would have made the point of writing the book pointless so he ignored it and carried on because he wasn't a negative loser
>people are too rewarded Sam didn't mean that part _literally_, but because Frodo's corruption was simply already too far along to give up the Ring
Always astonishing to see those fart smellers make a fool of themselves.
They will never stop trying to diminish the original lotr trilogy in any way they can. They hate the fact these movies exist the way they do. Soon they’ll try and say you’re racist if you watch and like these movies. Probably already tried that now that I think of it.
A mouse would very easily be corrupted by the ring though, and as soon as you let the mouse out of your sight, it would attempt to return to sauron, and now you've gotta find the ring while it's attached to a fricking superhuman mouse, good luck doing that moron. THINK next time you repost a twitter post from a fricking moron
>Strong beings get corrupted very easily because the ring provides power, and the strong beings like that, and then the ring fricks them in the ass by flavoring the power in such a way that it sucks sauron's dick
>Weak beings have no use for power, because personal reasons.
>gollum is a very weak being (in more ways than one) >your comment >???
hobbits aren't ideal carriers because they are weak, they're good because they dont give a frick about anything going on outside the shire, they just wanna sit around and fish and get drunk
a mouse is an animal, it is weak, it is desperate and it is cunning, it is a perfect target for the ring's corruption
>hobbits aren't ideal carriers because they are weak, they're good because they dont give a frick about anything going on outside the shire, they just wanna sit around and fish and get drunk
Mice aren't ideal carriers because they are weak, they're good because they don't give a frick about anything going on outside their immediate physical needs; they just wanna wander around and scavenge for food.
>Also a mouse isn't really intelligent enough to resist, it's an animal.
Hobbits are smarter than mice, by your logic, they would be more easily corrupted. Also, if they're nite intelligent to resist, then they don't have any intelligence to 'use' the ring for climbing in the dominance hierarchy.
In other words, if you're too stupid to not resist the ring's power, then you're too stupid to appreciate the power it gives you. The ring doesn't have desires of its own. It's just a corruptive force. That's why strong beings are more dangerous in using the ring. The user's desires are used against them.
You can't have you cake and eat it too. "Hobits > Gandalf because Gandalf strong while hobbits not" is the same logic as: "Mouse > hobbits because hobbits stronger while mouse not."
It's either both are correct, or neither. Take your pick.
4 months ago
Anonymous
not him but animals wills are clearly really easily dominated in lotr seeing as how crows spy for saruman. orc commanders also literally stop moving or being able to think properly once sauron stops actively dominating their minds near the end. a mouse would just totally have its brain taken over by the ring
4 months ago
Anonymous
There's a difference between a conscious mind actively dominating another lesser mind (Saruman, Sauron), and the ring. While they forcibly make someone do something (and rightfully so dominate lesser minds), the mind just tempts. So, if a very powerful being is tempted and corrupted in the process, that's much more dangerous than a tiny little mouse being tempted.
The reason why they give the ring to Frodo is because there's nothing to tempt him, and if he does cave, what the frick is he going to do. Do the same thing to a mouse and the same is true, just in a bigger degree. That's the whole point of 'strapping the ring to a mouse and carrying the mouse'. If Sam isn't proportionately affected by the ring through Frodo, that means he's affected less, lessening the Ring's power. You could make the same argument for a mouse and Frodo.
4 months ago
Anonymous
*the ring just tempts
4 months ago
Anonymous
I don’t agree with how your version of animal psychology works. The ring gives an unconscious suggestion which manifests to a more reflexively self aware mind as a tempting thought. A compulsion to do something our more developed reason and willpower can resist. A mouse would not be reflexively able to scrutinise its thoughts like that. A powerful suggestion would just be immediately acted upon. If the ring plants a compelling instinct to do something the mouse would just do it without thinking or weighing up its decisions
4 months ago
Anonymous
>The ring gives an unconscious suggestion which manifests to a more reflexively self aware mind as a tempting thought.
Right, so if the mouse's brain is incapable of converting an 'unconscious' suggestion to a tempting thought, the thought never exists for the mouse to act on.
Besides, if the suggestion is unconscious, then the mouse can't act on it at all, can it? That's the point of it being 'unconscious'. If something is conscious but buried deep for the consciousness to pick up on it, that doesn't mean it's unconscious. For example, you're not aware that you're balancing yourself when standing, but that doesn't mean it's unconscious. Your hearbeat however, that's unconscious. There's no 'conscious' signal passing through the consciousness.
4 months ago
Anonymous
No you’re just being moronic and obtuse here on purpose. Thoughts don’t get converted into temptations. A mind that examine itself experiences temptation because it doesn’t have to immediately act on its instincts and compulsions. For example, my unconscious wants to eat, so it sends my stomach an order to rumble and the experience of hunger to my conscious mind. Because I have an advanced degree of self awareness, I can feel that hunger and reject it, probably having a train of thought like “but i’m on a diet”. Now, a mouse getting the exact same chemical impulse isn’t missing some magical category of “temptation” that is converted from the basic impulse of hunger, it just doesn’t have the ability to scrutinise and question that compulsion and instinct like humans do. A mouse experiences hunger and just eats. Frodo experiences a desire for power or to give up, and he can reflect on that impulse and say no to it. A mouse is just going to obey. The temptation is a faculty of the human mind and not the ring itself
4 months ago
Anonymous
>my unconscious wants to eat, so it sends my stomach an order to rumble
It's the opposite. Your stomach registers that it's empty, as a individual entity, and your brain registers those sensations. Then, because that feeling is there, you act on it.
This is what meditation is. It's noticing all the sensations in your mind, and *not* acting on it. In other words, it's not your brain making your stomach growl, which you take and start eating, it's your stomach growling and your brain interpreting that as hunger, compelling you to eat.
You can feel hunger without acting on it.
In your example, how would your unconscious come to the conclusion that it wnats to eat? Just randomly? Nope. It's the brain recognizing that the stomach is at a certain level.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You really are being obtuse then because that’s not important to the point. The point is that temptation is just part of having a mind that can scrutinise its impulses to a greater degree. It’s not some separate thing from an impulse or something an impulse changes into, it’s an impulse experienced by a mind which can observe and choose which impulses it acts on. So the ring gives an impulse, a human can resist it, a mouse probably would not
4 months ago
Anonymous
>A stronger mind can resist the ring better.
Is basically what you're saying. Okay, if that's the case, then why not give it to Gandalf or Boromir?
4 months ago
Anonymous
It’s not, i’m saying a mind that can scrutinise its own impulses can choose to reject the ones the ring gives it. But there’s an explanation for gandalf anyway, he wouldn’t so much be tempted but want to use the power of the ring to do good, which would end up giving him an absurd degree of power which would end up serving evil in the end. The consequences of a being like gandalf getting the ring are astronomical compared to boromir getting it
4 months ago
Anonymous
>i’m saying a mind that can scrutinise its own impulses can choose to reject the ones the ring gives it.
You're just being obtuse at this point. That means that a mind that has those faculties can resist the ring, and a mind that doesn't have those faculties can't. In other words, a mind *with* those faculties is stronger by virtue of having those faculties.
You still need to explain me then why giving it to gandalf is a worse idea than giving it to frodo. If Gandalf can resist the ring more than frodo, why not give it to gandalf?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Lmao you’ve lost and now you’re coping massively. Is boromir simply more stupid and easy to dominate than frodo, or is he more desperate and tired and more mentally pliable as a result? All the humanoid characters have language and the ability to observe the content of their own impulses and thoughts. That doesn’t mean they can all resist the ring to a completely equal degree, that would be like saying more intelligent people are defacto more moral which is a socratic cope. Someone can be fully capable of weighing up their impulses and still choose the worse one, you even get people aware that it is the worse one whose willpower is compromised by addiction etc. All i’m saying is that an impulse manifests as a choice the more self aware a mind is. An insect is basically programmed by its instincts. A mouse would be heavily influenced by an instinct because it can’t go “hang on a minute” to the degree people can. Once you reach the threshold of choice, temptation begins to exist as the subjective self aware experience of an impulse. This doesn’t mean smarter = more able to resist temptation, it means smarter = able to experience temptation
4 months ago
Anonymous
>or is he more desperate and tired and more mentally pliable as a result?
See
I sort of agree with this. It's the people observing or knowing what it is that fricks them over. I'm starting to suspect the ring doesn't really have any power at all, beyond the street-level invisibilty and being connected to Sauron.
The Ring's 'power' is an allegory. It's just a normal magical ring, it's just the culture and prestige associated with it that makes people 'desire' it. Meaning, the 'power' the ring has starts and ends in the people's desire, not the ring itself.
Again, the ring is just an allegory for desire and the entirety of LOTR a story about how greedy human beings are. Didn't Tolkien fight in the first world war? War is always the result of wanting more than you have. There you go.
(me).
He's desperate. That's why the ring's 'power' is alluring. Hobbits have no use for power, because they want to frick around and eat.
/thread.
4 months ago
Anonymous
TL;DR: LOTR isn't a story about absolute power, but inner control of the self.
4 months ago
Anonymous
you’re still wrong there. it’s an allegory for sin. that’s why it was important for tolkien to have the moronic anti climax where frodo can’t destroy it, no mortal could ever truly resist or renounce sin, so supernatural intervention (grace, here in the form of eru) is needed to help us. gollum is tolkiens depiction of what sin is. he’s not evil, he’s a victim, he’s a thing so weak and pathetic that evil completely dominates his sad little mind and has its way with him. he’s an addict and a victim of circumstances inherent in his depraved nature. it is ultimately the compassion of people like frodo that nearly saves him, but it ends up being not quite enough.
4 months ago
Anonymous
So it's a christian allegory? Or religious at least? I'll take that. But my realization that the ring's 'power' is 'in the hearts of men' still holds true then.
4 months ago
Anonymous
interesting take and probably what Tolkien had in mind
4 months ago
Anonymous
So it's a christian allegory? Or religious at least? I'll take that. But my realization that the ring's 'power' is 'in the hearts of men' still holds true then.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring preface
4 months ago
Anonymous
interesting. thanks for posting
4 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, I see the allegory of other things in how he wrote the story. That doesn't invalidate how he meant it, nor does his domination invalidate my ability to see the allegory.
4 months ago
Anonymous
explain how isolated rats addicted to self-administering cocaine or heroin decide to quit using it when introduced to rat society
4 months ago
Anonymous
>my unconscious wants to eat, so it sends my stomach an order to rumble and the experience of hunger to my conscious mind
that's not how it works anon
your hormones act up -> subconscious feels discomfort -> you think "i will get some food"
unconscious doesn't come into it
4 months ago
Anonymous
nice way to avoid answering the actual point. does temptation come from the ability to observe and resist impulses or is it some magical separate thing where a choice is projected into your mind?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>it just doesn’t have the ability to scrutinise and question that compulsion and instinct like humans do. A mouse experiences hunger and just eats
people who think because animals are simpler than humans they don't experience any thought comparable to humans are dunces. animals think
4 months ago
Anonymous
You’re more like a dunce since you can’t refute the central point so resort to putting words in peoples mouths. You’re no longer arguing with me but a person of your own invention designed to satiate your ego because you’ve been so clearly btfo. I never said animals can’t think, I said they don’t have the capacity to scrutinise their thoughts to the degree that humans do, which is undeniably true. Just let the big boys talk, you aren’t smart enough to follow this
4 months ago
Anonymous
>the capacity to scrutinise their thoughts
yes they do. not as well as humans but this thread is about a rat you stupid homosexual
4 months ago
Anonymous
>yes they do
According to who? You? I can literally cite data that 70IQ Black folk have a lesser degree of impulse control because they are less able to observe and scrutinise their own impulses. They see a sexy woman and want sex, so they rape. They don’t have the “should I do this” thought process because they are fricking stupid. Now apply that to a mouse. You’re just stupid homosexual getting offended on the behalf of mice which i’m not even insulting in the way you think I am. I’m not denying that mice are conscious and experience reality, i’m saying when a mouse experiences an impulse, it has a far more diminished degree of ability to choose not to obey it. Look at those dogs they strapped electrodes to, producing serotonin when they walked in a certain direction. They spent all night spinning in their cages trying to get the feeling back. Now dogs are intelligent, but clearly not able to engage in an interior dialogue and scrutinise their situation to the degree we can, you are a fricking moron if you deny that. When you train a dog you really just introduce competing impulses >want thing >but remember thing last time brought punishment
That’s not as advanced as how a human experiences the same thing
4 months ago
Anonymous
if you raised feral children they would absolutely spin like the dogs
4 months ago
Anonymous
because you can teach kids to fricking speak and your brain is literally built for this capacity. dogs will never have that. good job refuting yourself. humans can engage in an internal dialogue, a dog will never do that
4 months ago
Anonymous
a rat with the ring could learn how to talk
4 months ago
Anonymous
That's not what i said though I literally said it has little to do with strength or power
Tom bombadil is also very powerful and he is completely immune to the corruptive powers of the ring >The ring doesn't have desires of its own.
the ring literally does have desires of it's own, it is a part of sauron's essence, it has will and sentience greater than a rat, probably greater than a hobbit
The reason gandalf can't take it is because a wizard would try to justify using the ring to try to save the world, to make himself powerful enough to stop sauron, eventually being too powerful for anyone else to stop either
a hobbit would use it to sneak out of his own birthday party because they're narrow-minded and fat and stubborn
Throughout all the books and the series it's a pretty common that non-intelligent things can be corrupted as you see with trolls, orcs, wargs and even the mounts the dark riders use
4 months ago
Anonymous
>The reason gandalf can't take it is because a wizard would try to justify using the ring to try to save the world
This is the core of it. Tom Bombadil might not have this, despite being a very powerful being. In other words, the desire of the user to utilize the ring is the very thing that tempts and corrupts them even more. The desire is the corruption itself. Boromir immediately came ot the conclusion of using the ring. He's already corrupted with desire. In other words, beings with a higher desire to use it for their own goals. If a being lacks those motives, then the ring has no power. Enter Frodo and the mouse.
Now, if you strap the ring to a mouse, the mouse has no desires stronger than getting something in its stomach. But so do the hobbits. In other words, the threshold for the ring being a corruptive force is the desire to use its powers for changing the world. If that's the case, then the less a creature has that, the 'stronger' they are in resisting the ring.
Strap a ring to a mouse and carry it to mount doom.
TL;DR: the whole of the LOTR trilogy is just an allegory for bhuddistic detachment of 'desire'.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Now, if you strap the ring to a mouse, the mouse has no desires stronger than getting something in its stomach. But so do the hobbits.
This is where I think you're wrong, that's true for all beings on earth or on middle earth, everything wants to fill its stomach, but I guarantee you a mouse has a very different temperance than a hobbit
if a mouse was able it would kill you and eat you alive, it would chew a hole through you to get to a piece of cheese, a hobbit would have to be pushed pretty hard to do something like that and would be far more likely to just avoid it and keep his life the way it was
It's not just that hobbits make a good ringbearer it's that frodo himself made a good ringbearer, homie didn't even want to go to rivendell but while everyone else was fighting over who is responsible for it he volunteered to take it to mordor himself, he doesn't want power or fame, he's not useless and moronic like merry/pippin and he isn't a greedy little miser like bilbo, he just wants to get it out of his life asap, a mouse wouldn't be capable of reasoning like this, it would just fall instantly to one of sauron's tricks
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'll budge a little. The mouse would be more susceptible to fulfilling its desires, you're right. Frodo has the opposite, he doesn't want any of that, so he makes an exceptionally good ringbearer.
>you could offer a mouse a lot very easily
What does a mouse desire? Food, shelter and a mate. Basic biological needs. The ring corrupts beings with a thirst for power, and amplifies their existing strengths. There’s nothing to corrupt in a mouse and it can’t do anything
4 months ago
Anonymous
in a mouse's position power = food, shelter and a mate
A hobbit doesn't even want that, a wizard showed up at a hobbits door and he tried to tell him to go away
4 months ago
Anonymous
Power is the ability to bend others to your will. I suppose the only power a mouse would desire is sexual power for reproduction. So a corrupted mouse would be fricking all the female mice he wants. That’s it.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It'd be eating all the cheese in the shire bro you not thought this through damn
4 months ago
Anonymous
All the cheese yes.
Sam actually held the ring in his fist in cirith ungol and attacking orcs sensed something terribly powerful about him and got scared. Should repel predators off a mouse too
4 months ago
Anonymous
it would eat all the cheese in the shire, create a veritable army of mice, and would seek to evade capture, which would lead it to becoming an untrackable supermaus that would end up in sauron's clutches and out of yours or possibly an entirely different and even greater threat
4 months ago
Anonymous
It’s possible middle earth would just be overwhelmed by mice. Like ten mice per square foot and they’d eat evertyhing
The world is not gray. It is black and white (get it?). It's literally a good vs bad side. White men vs Shitskins and israelites.
That's why LOTR is timeless. It speaks to the white man's soul and his struggle in this world against hordes of shitskins. That's how it's always been and how it always will be
>“Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up, she was shitting....
loved by the same moronic fans, which send death threats against the jack gleeson which played joffrey because they understand "moral grayness" and "complex characters"
nothing is quite morally gray as a sadistic boy king with zero redeeming qualities, or a sadistic bastard guy with zero redeeming qualities, or even a scheming backstabbing politick man with zero redeeming qualities, or a hulking brutal child murdering rapist with zero redeeming qualities. truly, there is no such thing as simple evil in martin's opus
When Sam says 'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you' he doesn't literally mean that he can't carry the ring. The reason he can't carry it is because Frodo won't let him. He would have to hurt Frodo in order to take the ring, which is something Sam can't do. Instead of wasting time trying to convince Frodo to let Sam carry it, ( which Sam knows would be futile anyway) he just picks him up and carries them both. He is bearing the physical weight of the ring when he does so
in my personal head canon that's what happened; sam just finished the book on what happened with frodo leaving with the elves instead of cold blooded murder. hobbit's wouldn't understand why he had to do it and he already saw what they did to gollum for murdering a hobbit.
>spend a good chunk of the plot b***hing about how bad you want to go back home >at the end 180 and decide to just say frick it and leave forever >trust the whole telling of the adventure to a known self aggrandizing bullshitter
it hurts because deep down inside you know it's the truth
Why didn't Gandalf put the ring inside a locked iron box, and tell all the fellowship how important the mission is that they throw the box in Mount Doom, but not clarify to them exactly what is inside of the box that needs to burn? They can't be tempted by wanting the ring if they don't even know the ring is there.
Also they would fly the box to Mordor on an Eagle.
it's a magical ring, remember?
It's not just powerful it might be the single most powerful artifact in the entirety of middle earth
the curiosity would literally kill you if you didn't open it, you wouldn't be able to resist, I dont think you literally need to touch it
No, you would very easily be able to resist it.
Only Boromir got tempted and that's only because he knew what it was and thought he could use it as a weapon back home. The ring isn't that powerful at all and it's simple for most people to resist. If they didn't know it was there it has 0 (ZERO) power.
I sort of agree with this. It's the people observing or knowing what it is that fricks them over. I'm starting to suspect the ring doesn't really have any power at all, beyond the street-level invisibilty and being connected to Sauron.
The Ring's 'power' is an allegory. It's just a normal magical ring, it's just the culture and prestige associated with it that makes people 'desire' it. Meaning, the 'power' the ring has starts and ends in the people's desire, not the ring itself.
Again, the ring is just an allegory for desire and the entirety of LOTR a story about how greedy human beings are. Didn't Tolkien fight in the first world war? War is always the result of wanting more than you have. There you go.
Yeah. If the ring has such corruptive powers, who not make the ring an absolute nuke that *no one* can resist and just phones homes by itself and takes over the person who just as much looks in its direction.
or once the ring knows its location and holder it calls home to daddy sauron to start fricking with you
you're both right. it's an allegory for greed and also a super magic ring that will frick with your head and can detect souls and subtly exploit physics in their absence to move around
putting it in a box would just fill anyone's nearby head with "WOW WHAT IS THAT BOX ANYWAY!!? YOU MUST KNOW, HUH?"
no it wouldn't. It was in a popular fishing spot for Hobbits for thousands of years and couldn't fill anyone's head with "I should swim down there looking for treasure"
4 months ago
Anonymous
it can literally grow and shrink and has a will to orient itself
4 months ago
Anonymous
Good for the ring. It still can't get people to see it when it's hidden in a river.
4 months ago
Anonymous
it literally did though, how do you think it was found
also bear in mind that Sauron was at the nadir of his power during those years and the ring was content to remain hidden
4 months ago
Anonymous
It literally didn't though, it was stuck for thousands of years until someone fished it by accident while looking for FISH, and only when it was out in the open in plain sight was it able to tempt Smeagol >and the ring was content to remain hidden
Nice headcanon.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Well, how come the ring was never found? >"It was, by Deagol" >N-nuh uh!
4 months ago
Anonymous
By Deagol, by accident, after thousands of year, while FISHING for FISH. Not by being tempted. By accident. Check and Mate.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>by accident
nice headcanon
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's literally said in the book they were there to fish, not looking for a ring calling to them.
It's headcanon pretending the ring "wanted" to be stuck in a river for millenia instead of corrupting people
4 months ago
Anonymous
Deagol just saw something glimmering at the bottom of the river and got curious what it was. It was pure accident
I can tell you're a seething manbaby because you've just been proven wrong and have no counterargument.
The ring was lost on the bottom of a puddle for TWO AND A HALF MILLENIA for only 1 reason:
nobody fricking knew it was there.
If they don't know the ring is inside the box, it has zero power.
He saw it anyway. In a locked box noone would even know there's a ring inside, just as noone knew there was a ring on the bottom of a fishing river for 2000 and 500 years
4 months ago
Anonymous
sure but that's because the ring was hiding, the ring allowed itself to be found by the hobbits in the river, and then it allowed itself to be found by bilbo in the dark, despite the fact that neither could see it, and even though smeagol had a stronger connection to the ring than bilbo at the time, he could not find it in the darkness of the cave, nor tell bilbo was wearing it
you're deliberately ignoring things that were spoken directly, I'm pretty sure the ring could easily compel someone to open a locked box out of curiosity
4 months ago
Anonymous
>because the ring was hiding
Source???
Note: your moronic headcanon is not a source. The ring has to wait for thousands of years before someone fished it by complete accident.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I’m afraid this is correct yes. It also spent hundreds of years in the mountain caves with gollum until bilbo arrived. It couldn’t compel gollum to leave a fricking cave.
4 months ago
Anonymous
didn't Gollum's long familiarity with the ring's tricks and his own bolstered power give him some resistance? seems like someone like Gollum who just wants to enjoy the ring in a NEET cave is harder to compel than someone who wants to use it to control others. he was obsessed with coveting his treasure not domination
4 months ago
Anonymous
Pretty much yeah. IIRC the whole village hated him and he resented them for it so he just wanted to vanish off the face off the earth. He really only used the ring for hunting goblins, evading enemies etc, nothing particularly evil
Sam wasn’t affected much by the ring anyway. In the book Sam has nearly a Tom Bombadil level of immunity to the ring’s allure. He takes the ring off Frodo to continue the quest when he thinks Frodo’s dead from the Spider bite and hands it back to Frodo without a moment’s hesitation when Frodo comes to. (That, btw, is when Sam becomes a ringbearer, not when he carries Frodo)
There are many plot holes in the Peter Jackson movies, and basically none in the books, except for Sam somehow not giving a shit about the ring.
>Return of the King first scene: sméagol killing his cousin déagol before taking the ring >speedwatching twitter moron eceleb: WHY DID NOT USE LE MOUSE? ME SMART!
sam had stronger will than sméagol, but eventually even he would succumb and kill his friend frodo. why would either even care for a random mouse?
>Hobbits are extremely resilient to the ring >Except for Smeagol, who is driven to murder his friend within seconds of being near the ring
Is this ever explained or is Smeagol just like the weakest willed bloke in all the land
I dont think all hobbits are resilient to the ring, hobbits are naturally pretty jealous, they're just sturdy and hardy folk who are very contented and not particularly evil, even if a hobbit became dark lord he would use his terrible power to ruin Barbin Flatfoot's next harvest because he didn't get a very nice gift from him at their last get-together
>if a hobbit became dark lord he would use his terrible power to ruin Barbin Flatfoot's next harvest because he didn't get a very nice gift from him at their last get-together
kek
it's a pretty common impulse for people to be bitter or seethe, or be downright delusionally greedy when being in close proximity to good fortune. consider 2 kids walking in the woods and one finds a piece of treasure or something. or 2 people get gifted lottery tickets and 1 guy wins a million
combined with the Ring's mindrape it's not a stretch. he was just an average bloke, maybe a bit of a dickhead already
and it was his birthday after all
>write beloved books that become so popular and influential almost every fantasy writer pays some form of homage to it in their works >some moron on twitter thinks they've figured out a massive plothole no one noticed for decades because of logic based on an incomplete understanding of the plot, carefully leaving out crucial details that could easily explain said plothole
twitter has the most bitter homosexuals on earth, but their egos go beyond comprehension.
>canonically the only requirement not to get tempted is to just not see the ring or know where it is >none of the characters ever think to take advantage of this because plot convenience
Tolkien was a hack, even for a children's writer
>we can't just give the ring to tom because he's a frickin hippie nutjob who will lose >NO we can't just throw it in the ocean because some evil sea monster might find it or some shit idk >nononono we can't use eagles because it's simply beneath them to ask them to do this for us. they might see us flying or something >NONONONO don't give it to me i will become a frickin even WORSE dark lord >you can *NOT* give the ring to the elf lords either because they will be massive jerks i guess >so yes, i've come to your little quaint part of the world and have singled out YOU specifically to take on a quest that will maim your soul and essentially ruin your life because you will have not peace again until you die because uhhh.... small people can carry big burdens or something >now hurry on and go put this ring in some lava
>>we can't just give the ring to tom because he's a frickin hippie nutjob who will lose
they offered it to tom but he said he'd just misplace it again and refused. there wasn't really much they could do after he refused since tom is moron OP and just does whatever the frick he wants.
im not gonna read the rest of your post if you're gonna open on something that moronic
why not smelt iron around the ring so it’s in a small ball of iron and then carry that. No one would know what it is and no one could use it, at least not immediately without melting the iron
the bearer of the iron ball would go mad wondering if the ring was still in there, kind of how Frodo suspects Tom stole it when Tom makes it disappear and reappear
The ring doesn't have the capacity to grow that much, or it would've just made itself too giant to be carried up Mount Doom
Also metal is chosen because it bends and dents instead of breaks, same reason we use metal in submarines when wood is often harder but more brittle
Why not give the ring to Smaug? >but he'll use it
No he won't, he's a strong-willed dragon and he wants to sit on it >but he'll give it to Sauron
He'll fricking destroy Sauron and all his armies, Sauron got beaten up by a regular man and before that a dog
Why didn't they get the Eagles to fly above the clouds to Mordor then divebomb into the volcano? Ground visibility is impossible above a certain height that Eagles can soar
What you're doing with the mouse is the same thing you're doing with your finger. You are willing the ring to be in your possession. The body is just flesh and bone, it's just an expression of your will. Should you extend your will through a mouse to keep the ring, you will still be affected. Welcome to magic, Black person.
That mouse would have become a massive butthole though, just scratching and biting, trying to save it's precious.
And it would take weeks, what if the little bastard got loose and took the ring with it? Then you've got an invisible mouse running around mordor with the ring.
Why didn't they kidnap Tom Bombadil and threaten to rape his wife if he doesn't take the ring to Mordor?
He's said to be impossible to capture or imprison so there's zero chance any tempted individual or Sauron could stop him
If Eru intervened at the last second to destroy the ring then why didn't they all just sit around and do nothing then wait until Eru is so fed up he just erases the ring anyway?
If the ring can be melted in lava (Sauron described Mount Doom not as being magic, just that its lava from the centre of the earth) then why didn't they just dissolve it?
Gandalf conjectures in the beginning that the ring can be broken based on amount of heat, not just its source. He says a Dragon's heat would be enough to destroy it if it's hot enough, but that no dragon's heat is as hot as Mount Doom so Mount Doom is the only option.
Therefore we can conclude that it is the quantity of an entropic force that destroys the ring and not simply where it came from, a dragon can't do it only because it's not hot enough, but if something is as hot as Mount Doom it can destroy the ring.
Breaking or melting an object is breaking the Van Der Walls forces (intermolecular forces). But dissolving a substance isn't "breaking" it, it's getting rid of its Covalent bonds (chemical bonds), effectively turning it into a new substance instead, that material of which is now spread about the solvent.
That's why they should've just dissolved it in Aqua Regia.
No he doesn't, he is talking about the One Ring when he says Dragon Fire could do it if hot enough. The One Ring's protection is only protected by amount of heat
>It has been said that dragonfire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the hold fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.”
He explicitly states that the One Ring is not like the lesser rings and that no dragon could harm it.
4 months ago
Anonymous
He explicitly states a paragraph comparing heats of forges. He says Frodo's fire isn't enough to melt any gold, that Dwarf fires aren't hot enough to melt rings of power, that nu dragons also aren't hot enough to melt rings of power, that that ancient dragons are hot enough to melt rings of power, but only Mount Doom is hot enough to melt the One Ring, because that's the forge where it was initially cast (melted)
4 months ago
Anonymous
Read the quote again. Then again. And then one more time.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Read the book once please, without your moron glasses this time.
Gandalf compares the heat of forges, and says only the heat of the original forge that melted it, Mount Doom, is hot enough to melt it, in the paragraph you left out.
"There is only one way: to find the Cracks of Doom in the depths
of Orodruin, the Fire-mountain, and cast the Ring in there"
4 months ago
Anonymous
>nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.”
Read homie read
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Cracks of Doom are hot enough to melt the ring >Ancient Dragons aren't hot enough
You'd think this would be easy for any moron to understand, but it makes sense only a Tolkien simp could be this dumb.
4 months ago
Anonymous
What is the reason given by Gandalf as to why the dragons can't harm the ring? Hint: It's not "they aren't hot enough" and it's written in the post you just replied to. Read it again.
4 months ago
Anonymous
The reason he gives is that they're not hot enough
Hint: He literally says that not even Ancalagon is hot enough to destroy the One Ring, because he's listing different heats of forges
4 months ago
Anonymous
>The reason he gives is that they're not hot enough
False. Read it again. They cannot harm the rings for....what? What comes after "for"? Come on baby boy, you got this.
4 months ago
Anonymous
They cannot harm the rings for not having enough heat to melt it, which is why he lists orders of successive heat in explaining it. Which is why he concludes they take the ring to Mount Doom, because that place was hot enough to melt it because that's how forging works. This is obvious to anyone with a reading level above 5.
Holy SHIT Tolkientards are moronic manbabies. Makes sense given the author was an untalented kiddy-level manbaby himself.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Please learn how to read. Your reading comprehension skills are legitimately at a toddler level.
>You cannot go outside, for it is too cold.
What is the reason you cannot go outside?
You cannot ask that question, for it is too rude.
What is the reason you cannot ask that question?
The dragons cannot destroy the One Ring, for it was made by Sauron himself.
What is the reason the dragons cannot destroy the One Ring?
4 months ago
Anonymous
The same reason Mount Doom can:
because Mount Doom is hotter than dragonfire, because Mount Doom DID melt the ring.
But of course Tolkienbabs are too immature and unintelligent to read paragraphs that shatter their fragile worldviews.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'll just copypaste the post and this time I want you to answer each of the questions in turn.
Please learn how to read. Your reading comprehension skills are legitimately at a toddler level.
>You cannot go outside, for it is too cold.
What is the reason you cannot go outside?
You cannot ask that question, for it is too rude.
What is the reason you cannot ask that question?
The dragons cannot destroy the One Ring, for it was made by Sauron himself.
What is the reason the dragons cannot destroy the One Ring?
Read the questions twice and answer them all. If you do not, it will be considered a concession.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>literally admitting he has no argument
Well at least Tolkien blobs are self-aware now that they live in delusion.
Gandalf says only Mount Doom can melt it, because Sauron made it in Mount Doom, meaning Sauron melted it in Mount Doom, meaning Mount Doom is hotter than Dragonfire.
Anyone with an iq above 7 can understand this (so everyone with a higher reading level than a bad quality children's book, lol)
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Didn't answer the questions
I accept your concession, toddler-kun. I hope today was educational for you.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>talking to himself >still no argument
LMAO
this is just sad now, Tol,k
4 months ago
Anonymous
Your concession was sufficient. There is no need to grovel.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It’s a magic ring mate. It can be undone only in the place where it was made. Angalacon on chili peppers aint gonna do it
I see, and while aqua regia dissolves gold, and the ring appears to be gold but doesn’t melt at the temperature gold melts, why would it dissolve in aqua regia? The ring is something more than gold, I think that’s clear. It’s impervious to physical damage, only sufficient heat distroyes it
I don’t think that’s accurate, it was the only place hot enough to melt it, no furnace was hot enough for the job. It’s not a regular volcano, it’s supernaturally hot.
Why didn't they just ask the Eagles to tear Sauron limb from limb and kill him again?
Then you got another 1000 year waiting period while he ressurects wherein you can peacefully stroll over to the ruins of Mordor and plot the ring in the lava
>Guys I know fire isn't hot enough to melt the ring, but I know a place hot enough to melt the ring: the place where it was melted in the first place!
They could've just taken it to most volcanoes
The books are about 5times better than the movies but even being 1/5th as good still makes them the best movies ever and it was a phenomenonal achievement that Jackson was able to capture even that much of their magic.
they were out of tape
The ring still affects anyone near it so no, it wouldn’t have worked. Also the ring’s weight physically changes as it gets closer to the cracks of doom, thus why Sam had to carry him in the first place
is that why gandalf could handle it when he put it in an envelope?
moron. Gandalf could always handle it for a time. The difference here being that putting it in an envelop and immediately giving that envelope to Frodo is quite different to taking the Ring to keep it. As for the latter it's literally as Gandalf said, he would be inclined to use it for the good, and that "using it" what would corrupt him. Just how the Dorfs were never corrupted by wielding their rings rather rarely, whereas the human kings fell to ringwraithdom very fast because they always write the rings. You absolute fricking moron.
what if the eagles carried the mouse to the mountain of doom and gollum was there waiting to catch the mouse?
The eagles would've eaten the mouse, and the ring attached to the mouse
even better, they could have just birdpooped it into mt. doom and been done with it
yep. radagast, friend of all animals, could've got an innocent bird to do it.
>the eagles use pinpoint precision they mastered during the 1941 bombing of pearl harbor to drop the ring into the chasm exactly 10 feet from the inner cliff
>gollum who hasn't learned the double jump leaps over to catch the mouse but can't make it back and falls to his death along with the mouse who he has an intense thumb war with over the ring during their final moments
it basically writes itself
I think sam just had a bonor from carrying frogo
The ring's effect is cumulative. Frodo was carrying that shit with minimal breaks the entire journey. And Samwise just happens to fricking love his buddy more than anything the stupid fricking ring can offer. It's not pithy and clever to come up with monday night quarterbacking.
Beautifully said, mate.
Uglyfully said, b***h
real battlebuddy shit
Sam is the ultimate battle
actually said, bro
The expression is Monday morning quarterback.
Then they had gay sex
I kneel. I’ve never seen these movies and this just made me want to watch them
watch Fellowship anon
today. I suggest a hearty and simple assortment of foods + ale
WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T WATCH THEATRICAL CUT EVER
WATCH EXTENDED EDITION ONLY
>the ring is radioactive
>Frodo has radiation sickness
makes sense
Just ignoring the part where Sam directly carried the ring itself and gave it back to Frodo after?
>Just ignoring the part where Sam directly carried the ring itself and gave it back to Frodo after?
That's how clickbait works. Not to mention, how long had Frodo been carrying the ring when Sam finally carried him. These articles are written by midwits who need to get paid by publishing.
Frodo basically was the mouse they taped it to ..
This, not like he was affected at first second by it, just interested, the ring corrupts, not turns yourself into homicidal at first touch. morons shouldn't be able to be close to a keyboard
Reminder that the ring was like 20-50 pounds at this point on their journey. They should have probably kept it in a backpack
Is that true? I don’t remember the movies saying that it got physically harder to carry as they got closer to its destruction though that is a cool concept
In the books the ring gets heavier as the journey progresses. It’s why it has to be around someone’s neck since otherwise it would find a way to escape
This happens in the movies as well. You can see the damage the rings chain does to Frodos neck as they get closer to Mt Doom. Its just never explicitly stated and the audience is expected to infer it by using their eyes and brain. Unfortunately modern audiences are stupid.
Nah, they explicily say it at one point in the movies. I think it's at the beginning of RotK.
I'm sure of it because I aw the movies for the first time last week and I was wondering why the righ wasn't changing size since it was bigger when Sauron had it on and then Frodo said it was getting physically heavier. But I watched the extended editions. Maybe it was a scene that was cut from the theatrical releases.
ring probably gave up changing size when it got tethered to an Elven chain
They showed it instead of saying it. IRL the prodction team had two rings, the small one that Frodo had dangling on his neck and one basketball sized one for close ups and scenes where the ring falls to the floor.
LoR was the point where movies as a whole peaked so why would anyone bother with anything that came after that.
The large rings were for forced perspective, not really related to what you’re saying.
why didn't they just pic related
The mouse would have been corrupted by the ring and killed frodo and sam.
He does feel it. He even wonders how Frodo was able to carry it for so long.
Lmfao
Sam is actually literally the only creature in middle earth the ring couldn't corrupt. You now realise that Sam is the actual hero of the story and gets the best ending. The brainlet op doesn't understand this and misses the fact that everyone around Frodo is affected by the ring except Sam.
There's a short bit where Sam feels that if he would just use the ring he could make all of Mordor a beautiful garden, but decides that gardening should require effort and anyway that would be too big of a garden for him to take care of.
Sam actually realises that he's just a lowly peasant and the idea of him owning land is silly. God rewards his deference to his betters with a wife and civil servant job.
>be Tolkein
>clearly a monarchist
>everyone great/powerful/wise in LOTR is because of hereditary blood or birth, like Denethor, Aragon
>IRL his monarchs are now talking about transforming into tampons and inserting themselves into women, their frozen todgers and getting fricked by horse riding hags behind bars
I think if Tolkien were alive today he'd rapidly rewrite LOTR so that all kings are clowns
kings did worse shit than any of that in the histories that he was no doubt aware of. he didn’t like bullies at the end of the day, or people who were obsessively controlling. someone like henry II would be an ideal king for tolkien, litigious and full of energy but lassez faire on each area of his kingdom governing itself. also showing contrition and making a public spectacle of his guilt when he ordered something grisly be done
being a monarchist doesn't mean you love every monarch ever
>homosexuals can't be corrupted
huh
I've been calling Sam a homosexual since before it was cool, btw.
I think you should go back to synagogue. for frick's sake, deep friendship or deep love between friends does not equate homosexual love. it's a different word in ancient greek
No it isn't, the Greeks weren't gay either.
no these is the other dude who actually dont give a frick but i cant remember his name.
he just gave too little of a frick and would just lose the thing was their justification.
bombadil doesnt give shit. bearmanpig doesnt give a shit. the ents dont give a shit. elves and dwarfs barely care. its really only human that are hung up on the one gay ring
Only the first sentence of this is correct. Everything else is incredibly wrong.
please cite some scenes from the films or tv productions to support your statement
Galadriel and the One Ring scene.
She gave a lot of fricks.
Powerful people like immortal elves can't be near the ring too much or they'll go all Trump. Legolas act a lot more 'human' than any other elf we see, so that might explain how he was able to be near it for the time he was. Or it's because he isn't big on magics, he's more physical. Even Arwen act more Elfic than Legolas in the movies.
Gandalf is too powerful too. Based Boromir gets semi-corrupted because he's a future King and leader. Aragorn is too much of a not-my-kingdom little b***h at that point to be easily corrupted. Then Frodo goes away and Aragorn embraces his King-ness. But if he did that when Frodo was there, he would have pulled a Boromir too.
>you can have the ring if you want, miss Galadriel
>no, thank you
yeah she cared a whole lot. definitely less willpower than a fricking hobbit rube
Idiot. You forgot the whole fricking test of will she barely wins because it doesn't fit your little moronic narrative.
Almost everything on Middle Earth would be corrupted by the ring if it was exposed to it for long enough. Hobbits are resistant to an extent because they're low IQ morons who just want to chill and have no stress but they're still corruptible. The only being that wouldn't be corrupted eventually is Tom Bombadil but he's not immune to Sauron's power if he was united with the ring and eventually he'd be overwhelmed.
The issue with Bombadil wasn't that he would get corrupted, it's that even if he could be convinced to take it, he'd put it somewhere and forget about it, and it would find another bearer.
Galadriel literally says to Frodo that the Fellowship will break due to the rings influence and that Boromir is already corrupted. It's the entire reason Frodo sets out on his own. I know you're shitposting also. 6/10, made me reply.
the ring is supposed to have more influence over stronger beings and shes already under the influence of a ring and she still resists it. boromir is corrupted because he is a human pussy, which is my original point, the ring really only affects humans. everyone else keeps their cool for the entire film series. even gollum mostly keeps his shit together until the end.
Try harder. Shitposting should at least be logical and somewhat believable.
No, that canonically would be Tom Bombadil. The problem is that he wouldn't give a shit about the ring at all and probably would forget it somewhere.
>Tom Bombadil
>creature older than time just prances around the forest like a jolly drunk uncle singing goofy songs
I used to hate those chapters but they've really grown on me
>You now realise that Sam is the actual hero of the story
There is no one hero. That's the entire point of the Fellowship. I hate when people undermine Frodo's work because they think it's cool and contrarian to believe Sam was the real hero. It shows a lack of understanding of the story and the same cynicism that is present in tweets like in the OP image.
True. Frodo had a huge sack choosing to have anything to do with the ring in the first place
ok bait
The ring weighed heavily on Frodos mind. It drained him of his will to complete his mission. It wasn't a physical weight. By this point they're starving, thirsty, haven't slept for more than a few hours, they're breathing noxious fumes and have been marching for weeks. Frodo is a well off gentleman unaccustomed to heavy physical exertion. He couldn't make that trek, ring or no ring.
It´s "easier" to find if it doesn´t have a carrier
Some people really want to frick animals or chimps or w/e but the mouse would have fallen prey of casualty
A moure or a N----r, doesn´t matter
>he thinks he can take on an evil mouse
lol
lmao
>what would happen if you taped the ring to a rodent
Lmfao
They should taped the ring to a woman because all women are useless prostitutes.
>gives the ring to a chad bad guy cuz he’s ram and hot
because somehow carrying a mouse with the one ring taped onto it gives you teleporting abilities
Why didn't they take the ring to Valinor instead.
I'm sure some grug valar there can smash it with a super duper valar hammer or idk shoot it into space or something.
Or maybe Eru can turn the ring into a small bug and they can step on it.
It was a test by Eru to see if man could stop fricking about and work together.
The Valar are an order of magnitude stronger than Maiar like Gandalf or Sauron. Any one of them could easily defeat Sauron, let alone all of them together with all the Maiar and souped up Elven armies, but they decided to intervene as little and indirectly as possible and let Middle Earth be independent and solve its problems on its own. It's entirely possible that they'd intervene if Sauron got the ring and was close to winning
filmbusters theorem: why didnt they use magic to transform the ring into a slinky and then slinky the ring into volcano
why didnt they take a big stinking shit and lob it at sauron
At his eye? Do you realise how hard it would be to pull off that throw?
he has no physical form. just will spirit / will. he needed the ring to come back
He has a physical form in the books.
didn't remember that
ah yes, I think he personally tortures gollum, who testified sauron had only four fingers
>world where random mine entrances are barred by enchanted doors
>sauron doesn't even bother posting a fricking guard at his one point of weakness
he called it a mine, a mine!
He couldn't conceive that people would try to destroy the ring, let alone resist its influence when they get there. And he was right.
>let alone resist its influence when they get there
he was right, but this presupposes the idea someone might try destroy it. so he did conceive that people could try to destroy it but he thought that it would be impossible to carry out. so yes he was right.
So the guard gets under the influence of the ring, another great idea.
t.80 IQ homosexuals giving lessons to Tolkien
a bunch of orcs getting their hands on the ring is as good as him having it. a wring raith would be a better guard though
how about a door and a padlock?
What the frick do you think the watcher in the statue was, if not a guard?
Oh that’s right, because you haven’t fricking read the book have you? Fricking cringe naynay ass zoomzoom
>world where random mine entrances are barred by enchanted doors
That wasn't the main entrance. It was the backdoor. Nobody had used it to enter in ages. The book they found first describes them battling the Orcs at the main gate. The last part mentions the West gate (the magic door) and the Watcher keeping them pinned and unable to escape.
There are guards including a giant spider. Also his entire army was in the way. He was tricked because Aragorn was baiting him into an attack and all but saying he had the ring. Sauron had zero clue they were planning to destroy it, he assumed everyone was power hungry like him and that he had made the ring too tempting to do anything but use it. Both the book and movie confirm this was sound logic because Frodo fails right at the end and God has to do the final push to destroy it, if God hadn't intervened Sauron would have gotten his ring back from Gollum and his armies would've killed Aragorn and pals.
>guards miles away from the actual entrance
Just keep making fricking excuses.
putting guards on mt doom would be like putting a padlock on your oven, because someone might break into your house and use your oven to burn all your cash
Not even remotely true. Mount doom was the only place to destroy the ring, you can destroy cash anywhere
Saurons flaw was it never even occurred to him they would destroy it
He was always worried an Elf lord or Gandalf would try to wield the Ring. And then when he learned of Aragorn he was concerned he would use it
UH THEY DIDN'T DESTROY IT , IT WILL WORK IT'S WAY TO THE SURFACE IN A ROCK AND BE FOUND BY A DWARF
who determined that Mt Doom would even destroy it anyway? why not use any other volcano?
Probably elrond and gandalf. the volcano’s heat was used to make it, so the reverse should be possible too
The ring could also be destroyed by dragon fire, but there were no dragons left since Smaug was killed
>Why not catapult the ring
>Why not use the ghosts to carry it
>Why not mail the ring in a package no one can see into
>Why not just ask the ring to not be evil? Are they stupid?
>Why not catapult the ring
Now post the gif anon
And the mouse escape and lose the ring?
That's such a moronic take. Also, isn't giving the ring to a lesser inoffensive creature the whole point of giving it to a hobbit?
Twitter homosexual is just paraphrasing the story.
Leave the ring to me.
There's a mouse in my house
It has evaded every trap
Every brap
I am going to smash this mouse in my house with this hammer
Whose to say he wasn't affected? He was affected by it in the whole journey just by being in its vicinity. In the books he fantasizes about taking the ring and leading an army against Mordor with a flaming sword.
this board is for the discussion of film and tv
Sorry you're illiterate. My point still stands that it was affecting him and you are just too moronic to get that when it's stated it does affect everyone in the vicinity. Hobbits just less so. Did you need a scene of Sam eyeballing it with bloodlust to understand that despite it already being explicitly said it affects everyone?
i am well able to make inferences but in the films nobody reacts to the ring unless they can see it and sam barely reacts even when he holds it after the shelob incident. setting aside that evil shelob doesnt want the ring for no reason, its quite proper to infer that sam is mostly immune to the rings influence in the films
Yes we're discussing how Hackson ignored the source material to make his capeshit wetdream
the book sucks
should have given the ring to Saruman
Sam is just a fricking chad.
People think Sauron was the bad guy in the movie/books.
That's a moronic take. It was the One Ring.
It had a will of it's own. It was established that anyone with great power wearing it and corrupted would the the equal, or even stronger than Sauron.
It only wanted to get back to Sauron because he was strong. But he would probably preffered Galadriel as a wearer. Or based Tom. But Tom's curruption would probably be about spicy food and anal sex with his wife.
Wasn't Sauron a necromancer before the ring?
Sauron was a Maiar (basically an angel). One of the stronger ones. He was corrupted by his desire to have order in the universe and became the big bad's 2nd in command. When the Valar captured and imprisioned Morgoth (the big bad), Sauron became the new big bad. His identity as a necromancer was a disguise for the body he was able to conjure up after losing the ring and gathering his strength for a few millenia.
This is the dumbest post on LotR I've ever read.
>It had a will of it's own. It was established that anyone with great power wearing it and corrupted would the the equal, or even stronger
That sounds like women.
Remember Boromir?
who keeps making all these lotr threads? theres been 20+ the last 24 hours
Gandalf on weed.
People like to bait LotR nerds. Unfortunately for them discussing LotR in any context is always comfy.
The 20th anniversary of RotK just passed in December.
You don’t watch the extended version of the trilogy starting at 1 on NYE?
Tolkien actually thought about this and then realised it would have made the point of writing the book pointless so he ignored it and carried on because he wasn't a negative loser
>people are too rewarded Sam didn't mean that part _literally_, but because Frodo's corruption was simply already too far along to give up the Ring
Always astonishing to see those fart smellers make a fool of themselves.
Just put it in a lead box and carry it. Everyone knows lead stops all kinds of magic and radiation.
they don't have tape in middle earth moron
They will never stop trying to diminish the original lotr trilogy in any way they can. They hate the fact these movies exist the way they do. Soon they’ll try and say you’re racist if you watch and like these movies. Probably already tried that now that I think of it.
Why didn't they just take some lava from Mount Doom back to the Shire?
A mouse would very easily be corrupted by the ring though, and as soon as you let the mouse out of your sight, it would attempt to return to sauron, and now you've gotta find the ring while it's attached to a fricking superhuman mouse, good luck doing that moron. THINK next time you repost a twitter post from a fricking moron
>Strong beings get corrupted very easily because the ring provides power, and the strong beings like that, and then the ring fricks them in the ass by flavoring the power in such a way that it sucks sauron's dick
>Weak beings have no use for power, because personal reasons.
>Mouse is a very weak being
>Your comment
>???
Nah.
>gollum is a very weak being (in more ways than one)
>your comment
>???
hobbits aren't ideal carriers because they are weak, they're good because they dont give a frick about anything going on outside the shire, they just wanna sit around and fish and get drunk
a mouse is an animal, it is weak, it is desperate and it is cunning, it is a perfect target for the ring's corruption
>hobbits aren't ideal carriers because they are weak, they're good because they dont give a frick about anything going on outside the shire, they just wanna sit around and fish and get drunk
Mice aren't ideal carriers because they are weak, they're good because they don't give a frick about anything going on outside their immediate physical needs; they just wanna wander around and scavenge for food.
but unlike a hobbit, a mouse always has an empty stomach and is surrounded by threats to their survival, you could offer a mouse a lot very easily
Also a mouse isn't really intelligent enough to resist, it's an animal. I doubt sauron would even need the ring to corrupt one.
>Also a mouse isn't really intelligent enough to resist, it's an animal.
Hobbits are smarter than mice, by your logic, they would be more easily corrupted. Also, if they're nite intelligent to resist, then they don't have any intelligence to 'use' the ring for climbing in the dominance hierarchy.
In other words, if you're too stupid to not resist the ring's power, then you're too stupid to appreciate the power it gives you. The ring doesn't have desires of its own. It's just a corruptive force. That's why strong beings are more dangerous in using the ring. The user's desires are used against them.
You can't have you cake and eat it too. "Hobits > Gandalf because Gandalf strong while hobbits not" is the same logic as: "Mouse > hobbits because hobbits stronger while mouse not."
It's either both are correct, or neither. Take your pick.
not him but animals wills are clearly really easily dominated in lotr seeing as how crows spy for saruman. orc commanders also literally stop moving or being able to think properly once sauron stops actively dominating their minds near the end. a mouse would just totally have its brain taken over by the ring
There's a difference between a conscious mind actively dominating another lesser mind (Saruman, Sauron), and the ring. While they forcibly make someone do something (and rightfully so dominate lesser minds), the mind just tempts. So, if a very powerful being is tempted and corrupted in the process, that's much more dangerous than a tiny little mouse being tempted.
The reason why they give the ring to Frodo is because there's nothing to tempt him, and if he does cave, what the frick is he going to do. Do the same thing to a mouse and the same is true, just in a bigger degree. That's the whole point of 'strapping the ring to a mouse and carrying the mouse'. If Sam isn't proportionately affected by the ring through Frodo, that means he's affected less, lessening the Ring's power. You could make the same argument for a mouse and Frodo.
*the ring just tempts
I don’t agree with how your version of animal psychology works. The ring gives an unconscious suggestion which manifests to a more reflexively self aware mind as a tempting thought. A compulsion to do something our more developed reason and willpower can resist. A mouse would not be reflexively able to scrutinise its thoughts like that. A powerful suggestion would just be immediately acted upon. If the ring plants a compelling instinct to do something the mouse would just do it without thinking or weighing up its decisions
>The ring gives an unconscious suggestion which manifests to a more reflexively self aware mind as a tempting thought.
Right, so if the mouse's brain is incapable of converting an 'unconscious' suggestion to a tempting thought, the thought never exists for the mouse to act on.
Besides, if the suggestion is unconscious, then the mouse can't act on it at all, can it? That's the point of it being 'unconscious'. If something is conscious but buried deep for the consciousness to pick up on it, that doesn't mean it's unconscious. For example, you're not aware that you're balancing yourself when standing, but that doesn't mean it's unconscious. Your hearbeat however, that's unconscious. There's no 'conscious' signal passing through the consciousness.
No you’re just being moronic and obtuse here on purpose. Thoughts don’t get converted into temptations. A mind that examine itself experiences temptation because it doesn’t have to immediately act on its instincts and compulsions. For example, my unconscious wants to eat, so it sends my stomach an order to rumble and the experience of hunger to my conscious mind. Because I have an advanced degree of self awareness, I can feel that hunger and reject it, probably having a train of thought like “but i’m on a diet”. Now, a mouse getting the exact same chemical impulse isn’t missing some magical category of “temptation” that is converted from the basic impulse of hunger, it just doesn’t have the ability to scrutinise and question that compulsion and instinct like humans do. A mouse experiences hunger and just eats. Frodo experiences a desire for power or to give up, and he can reflect on that impulse and say no to it. A mouse is just going to obey. The temptation is a faculty of the human mind and not the ring itself
>my unconscious wants to eat, so it sends my stomach an order to rumble
It's the opposite. Your stomach registers that it's empty, as a individual entity, and your brain registers those sensations. Then, because that feeling is there, you act on it.
This is what meditation is. It's noticing all the sensations in your mind, and *not* acting on it. In other words, it's not your brain making your stomach growl, which you take and start eating, it's your stomach growling and your brain interpreting that as hunger, compelling you to eat.
You can feel hunger without acting on it.
In your example, how would your unconscious come to the conclusion that it wnats to eat? Just randomly? Nope. It's the brain recognizing that the stomach is at a certain level.
You really are being obtuse then because that’s not important to the point. The point is that temptation is just part of having a mind that can scrutinise its impulses to a greater degree. It’s not some separate thing from an impulse or something an impulse changes into, it’s an impulse experienced by a mind which can observe and choose which impulses it acts on. So the ring gives an impulse, a human can resist it, a mouse probably would not
>A stronger mind can resist the ring better.
Is basically what you're saying. Okay, if that's the case, then why not give it to Gandalf or Boromir?
It’s not, i’m saying a mind that can scrutinise its own impulses can choose to reject the ones the ring gives it. But there’s an explanation for gandalf anyway, he wouldn’t so much be tempted but want to use the power of the ring to do good, which would end up giving him an absurd degree of power which would end up serving evil in the end. The consequences of a being like gandalf getting the ring are astronomical compared to boromir getting it
>i’m saying a mind that can scrutinise its own impulses can choose to reject the ones the ring gives it.
You're just being obtuse at this point. That means that a mind that has those faculties can resist the ring, and a mind that doesn't have those faculties can't. In other words, a mind *with* those faculties is stronger by virtue of having those faculties.
You still need to explain me then why giving it to gandalf is a worse idea than giving it to frodo. If Gandalf can resist the ring more than frodo, why not give it to gandalf?
Lmao you’ve lost and now you’re coping massively. Is boromir simply more stupid and easy to dominate than frodo, or is he more desperate and tired and more mentally pliable as a result? All the humanoid characters have language and the ability to observe the content of their own impulses and thoughts. That doesn’t mean they can all resist the ring to a completely equal degree, that would be like saying more intelligent people are defacto more moral which is a socratic cope. Someone can be fully capable of weighing up their impulses and still choose the worse one, you even get people aware that it is the worse one whose willpower is compromised by addiction etc. All i’m saying is that an impulse manifests as a choice the more self aware a mind is. An insect is basically programmed by its instincts. A mouse would be heavily influenced by an instinct because it can’t go “hang on a minute” to the degree people can. Once you reach the threshold of choice, temptation begins to exist as the subjective self aware experience of an impulse. This doesn’t mean smarter = more able to resist temptation, it means smarter = able to experience temptation
>or is he more desperate and tired and more mentally pliable as a result?
See
(me).
He's desperate. That's why the ring's 'power' is alluring. Hobbits have no use for power, because they want to frick around and eat.
/thread.
TL;DR: LOTR isn't a story about absolute power, but inner control of the self.
you’re still wrong there. it’s an allegory for sin. that’s why it was important for tolkien to have the moronic anti climax where frodo can’t destroy it, no mortal could ever truly resist or renounce sin, so supernatural intervention (grace, here in the form of eru) is needed to help us. gollum is tolkiens depiction of what sin is. he’s not evil, he’s a victim, he’s a thing so weak and pathetic that evil completely dominates his sad little mind and has its way with him. he’s an addict and a victim of circumstances inherent in his depraved nature. it is ultimately the compassion of people like frodo that nearly saves him, but it ends up being not quite enough.
So it's a christian allegory? Or religious at least? I'll take that. But my realization that the ring's 'power' is 'in the hearts of men' still holds true then.
interesting take and probably what Tolkien had in mind
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring preface
interesting. thanks for posting
Yes, I see the allegory of other things in how he wrote the story. That doesn't invalidate how he meant it, nor does his domination invalidate my ability to see the allegory.
explain how isolated rats addicted to self-administering cocaine or heroin decide to quit using it when introduced to rat society
>my unconscious wants to eat, so it sends my stomach an order to rumble and the experience of hunger to my conscious mind
that's not how it works anon
your hormones act up -> subconscious feels discomfort -> you think "i will get some food"
unconscious doesn't come into it
nice way to avoid answering the actual point. does temptation come from the ability to observe and resist impulses or is it some magical separate thing where a choice is projected into your mind?
>it just doesn’t have the ability to scrutinise and question that compulsion and instinct like humans do. A mouse experiences hunger and just eats
people who think because animals are simpler than humans they don't experience any thought comparable to humans are dunces. animals think
You’re more like a dunce since you can’t refute the central point so resort to putting words in peoples mouths. You’re no longer arguing with me but a person of your own invention designed to satiate your ego because you’ve been so clearly btfo. I never said animals can’t think, I said they don’t have the capacity to scrutinise their thoughts to the degree that humans do, which is undeniably true. Just let the big boys talk, you aren’t smart enough to follow this
>the capacity to scrutinise their thoughts
yes they do. not as well as humans but this thread is about a rat you stupid homosexual
>yes they do
According to who? You? I can literally cite data that 70IQ Black folk have a lesser degree of impulse control because they are less able to observe and scrutinise their own impulses. They see a sexy woman and want sex, so they rape. They don’t have the “should I do this” thought process because they are fricking stupid. Now apply that to a mouse. You’re just stupid homosexual getting offended on the behalf of mice which i’m not even insulting in the way you think I am. I’m not denying that mice are conscious and experience reality, i’m saying when a mouse experiences an impulse, it has a far more diminished degree of ability to choose not to obey it. Look at those dogs they strapped electrodes to, producing serotonin when they walked in a certain direction. They spent all night spinning in their cages trying to get the feeling back. Now dogs are intelligent, but clearly not able to engage in an interior dialogue and scrutinise their situation to the degree we can, you are a fricking moron if you deny that. When you train a dog you really just introduce competing impulses
>want thing
>but remember thing last time brought punishment
That’s not as advanced as how a human experiences the same thing
if you raised feral children they would absolutely spin like the dogs
because you can teach kids to fricking speak and your brain is literally built for this capacity. dogs will never have that. good job refuting yourself. humans can engage in an internal dialogue, a dog will never do that
a rat with the ring could learn how to talk
That's not what i said though I literally said it has little to do with strength or power
Tom bombadil is also very powerful and he is completely immune to the corruptive powers of the ring
>The ring doesn't have desires of its own.
the ring literally does have desires of it's own, it is a part of sauron's essence, it has will and sentience greater than a rat, probably greater than a hobbit
The reason gandalf can't take it is because a wizard would try to justify using the ring to try to save the world, to make himself powerful enough to stop sauron, eventually being too powerful for anyone else to stop either
a hobbit would use it to sneak out of his own birthday party because they're narrow-minded and fat and stubborn
Throughout all the books and the series it's a pretty common that non-intelligent things can be corrupted as you see with trolls, orcs, wargs and even the mounts the dark riders use
>The reason gandalf can't take it is because a wizard would try to justify using the ring to try to save the world
This is the core of it. Tom Bombadil might not have this, despite being a very powerful being. In other words, the desire of the user to utilize the ring is the very thing that tempts and corrupts them even more. The desire is the corruption itself. Boromir immediately came ot the conclusion of using the ring. He's already corrupted with desire. In other words, beings with a higher desire to use it for their own goals. If a being lacks those motives, then the ring has no power. Enter Frodo and the mouse.
Now, if you strap the ring to a mouse, the mouse has no desires stronger than getting something in its stomach. But so do the hobbits. In other words, the threshold for the ring being a corruptive force is the desire to use its powers for changing the world. If that's the case, then the less a creature has that, the 'stronger' they are in resisting the ring.
Strap a ring to a mouse and carry it to mount doom.
TL;DR: the whole of the LOTR trilogy is just an allegory for bhuddistic detachment of 'desire'.
>Now, if you strap the ring to a mouse, the mouse has no desires stronger than getting something in its stomach. But so do the hobbits.
This is where I think you're wrong, that's true for all beings on earth or on middle earth, everything wants to fill its stomach, but I guarantee you a mouse has a very different temperance than a hobbit
if a mouse was able it would kill you and eat you alive, it would chew a hole through you to get to a piece of cheese, a hobbit would have to be pushed pretty hard to do something like that and would be far more likely to just avoid it and keep his life the way it was
It's not just that hobbits make a good ringbearer it's that frodo himself made a good ringbearer, homie didn't even want to go to rivendell but while everyone else was fighting over who is responsible for it he volunteered to take it to mordor himself, he doesn't want power or fame, he's not useless and moronic like merry/pippin and he isn't a greedy little miser like bilbo, he just wants to get it out of his life asap, a mouse wouldn't be capable of reasoning like this, it would just fall instantly to one of sauron's tricks
I'll budge a little. The mouse would be more susceptible to fulfilling its desires, you're right. Frodo has the opposite, he doesn't want any of that, so he makes an exceptionally good ringbearer.
>you could offer a mouse a lot very easily
What does a mouse desire? Food, shelter and a mate. Basic biological needs. The ring corrupts beings with a thirst for power, and amplifies their existing strengths. There’s nothing to corrupt in a mouse and it can’t do anything
in a mouse's position power = food, shelter and a mate
A hobbit doesn't even want that, a wizard showed up at a hobbits door and he tried to tell him to go away
Power is the ability to bend others to your will. I suppose the only power a mouse would desire is sexual power for reproduction. So a corrupted mouse would be fricking all the female mice he wants. That’s it.
It'd be eating all the cheese in the shire bro you not thought this through damn
All the cheese yes.
Sam actually held the ring in his fist in cirith ungol and attacking orcs sensed something terribly powerful about him and got scared. Should repel predators off a mouse too
it would eat all the cheese in the shire, create a veritable army of mice, and would seek to evade capture, which would lead it to becoming an untrackable supermaus that would end up in sauron's clutches and out of yours or possibly an entirely different and even greater threat
It’s possible middle earth would just be overwhelmed by mice. Like ten mice per square foot and they’d eat evertyhing
>le high verbal iq talmudic reasoning
wow Tolkien is a hack. I will try to hide my shock.
The world is not gray. It is black and white (get it?). It's literally a good vs bad side. White men vs Shitskins and israelites.
That's why LOTR is timeless. It speaks to the white man's soul and his struggle in this world against hordes of shitskins. That's how it's always been and how it always will be
did Tolkien ever admit orcs are Black folk?
He never had to
Lmao the “chad” is supposed to look like the moron who wrote GOT. Fricking onionsboys and their corporate slop
>the “chad” is supposed to look like the moron who wrote GOT
No way???!!
Hows that story coming along Georgey?
>“Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up, she was shitting....
loved by the same moronic fans, which send death threats against the jack gleeson which played joffrey because they understand "moral grayness" and "complex characters"
nothing is quite morally gray as a sadistic boy king with zero redeeming qualities, or a sadistic bastard guy with zero redeeming qualities, or even a scheming backstabbing politick man with zero redeeming qualities, or a hulking brutal child murdering rapist with zero redeeming qualities. truly, there is no such thing as simple evil in martin's opus
I won't watch chudslop with no POC characters.
uh, no, actually
Trying to pilpul the One Ring will only allow the One Ring to pilpul you. Can't out-pilpul the master of pilpul.
true. the kind of homosexual moron that would try such tricks is the first person to fall to the Ring's power
the ring would flex itself free of the tape dummy
When Sam says 'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you' he doesn't literally mean that he can't carry the ring. The reason he can't carry it is because Frodo won't let him. He would have to hurt Frodo in order to take the ring, which is something Sam can't do. Instead of wasting time trying to convince Frodo to let Sam carry it, ( which Sam knows would be futile anyway) he just picks him up and carries them both. He is bearing the physical weight of the ring when he does so
evil mouse though
Sam was too based at this point to be affected by the ring again.
did the book ever describe Sauron's seething after being mogged by Sam's good heart?
I don’t think so but the part where frodo puts the ring on inside mount doom and sauron realizes he might actually die any moment is pretty good
If Gollum didn't appear, would Sam have pushed Frodo into the lava to save the world?
No. But Eru would have intervened in some other way.
Yes, that’s why he was there
yep
in my personal head canon that's what happened; sam just finished the book on what happened with frodo leaving with the elves instead of cold blooded murder. hobbit's wouldn't understand why he had to do it and he already saw what they did to gollum for murdering a hobbit.
delet this
>spend a good chunk of the plot b***hing about how bad you want to go back home
>at the end 180 and decide to just say frick it and leave forever
>trust the whole telling of the adventure to a known self aggrandizing bullshitter
it hurts because deep down inside you know it's the truth
THEYRE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD
I'd wear the ring on my wiener and frick an elf.
Why didn't Gandalf put the ring inside a locked iron box, and tell all the fellowship how important the mission is that they throw the box in Mount Doom, but not clarify to them exactly what is inside of the box that needs to burn? They can't be tempted by wanting the ring if they don't even know the ring is there.
Also they would fly the box to Mordor on an Eagle.
it's a magical ring, remember?
It's not just powerful it might be the single most powerful artifact in the entirety of middle earth
the curiosity would literally kill you if you didn't open it, you wouldn't be able to resist, I dont think you literally need to touch it
No, you would very easily be able to resist it.
Only Boromir got tempted and that's only because he knew what it was and thought he could use it as a weapon back home. The ring isn't that powerful at all and it's simple for most people to resist. If they didn't know it was there it has 0 (ZERO) power.
I sort of agree with this. It's the people observing or knowing what it is that fricks them over. I'm starting to suspect the ring doesn't really have any power at all, beyond the street-level invisibilty and being connected to Sauron.
The Ring's 'power' is an allegory. It's just a normal magical ring, it's just the culture and prestige associated with it that makes people 'desire' it. Meaning, the 'power' the ring has starts and ends in the people's desire, not the ring itself.
Again, the ring is just an allegory for desire and the entirety of LOTR a story about how greedy human beings are. Didn't Tolkien fight in the first world war? War is always the result of wanting more than you have. There you go.
or once the ring knows its location and holder it calls home to daddy sauron to start fricking with you
cont.
Yeah. If the ring has such corruptive powers, who not make the ring an absolute nuke that *no one* can resist and just phones homes by itself and takes over the person who just as much looks in its direction.
you're both right. it's an allegory for greed and also a super magic ring that will frick with your head and can detect souls and subtly exploit physics in their absence to move around
putting it in a box would just fill anyone's nearby head with "WOW WHAT IS THAT BOX ANYWAY!!? YOU MUST KNOW, HUH?"
no it wouldn't. It was in a popular fishing spot for Hobbits for thousands of years and couldn't fill anyone's head with "I should swim down there looking for treasure"
it can literally grow and shrink and has a will to orient itself
Good for the ring. It still can't get people to see it when it's hidden in a river.
it literally did though, how do you think it was found
also bear in mind that Sauron was at the nadir of his power during those years and the ring was content to remain hidden
It literally didn't though, it was stuck for thousands of years until someone fished it by accident while looking for FISH, and only when it was out in the open in plain sight was it able to tempt Smeagol
>and the ring was content to remain hidden
Nice headcanon.
>Well, how come the ring was never found?
>"It was, by Deagol"
>N-nuh uh!
By Deagol, by accident, after thousands of year, while FISHING for FISH. Not by being tempted. By accident. Check and Mate.
>by accident
nice headcanon
It's literally said in the book they were there to fish, not looking for a ring calling to them.
It's headcanon pretending the ring "wanted" to be stuck in a river for millenia instead of corrupting people
Deagol just saw something glimmering at the bottom of the river and got curious what it was. It was pure accident
there are no coincidences
Coincidentally
I can tell you've never read the book and you probably havent seen the movies in at least 10 years
I can tell you're a seething manbaby because you've just been proven wrong and have no counterargument.
The ring was lost on the bottom of a puddle for TWO AND A HALF MILLENIA for only 1 reason:
nobody fricking knew it was there.
If they don't know the ring is inside the box, it has zero power.
read the book
I did. Read an adult book.
maybe reread it then, you clearly didnt comprehend much of it
I must've missed the part where Tolkien wrote out on paper your insecure headcanons compensating for his little talent as a writer
smeagol also got tempted by it despite not touching it and just seeing his buddy fish it out of a river
Key Word: SEEING
No seeing, No knowing = No temptation
but smeagol did not know what it was
He saw it anyway. In a locked box noone would even know there's a ring inside, just as noone knew there was a ring on the bottom of a fishing river for 2000 and 500 years
sure but that's because the ring was hiding, the ring allowed itself to be found by the hobbits in the river, and then it allowed itself to be found by bilbo in the dark, despite the fact that neither could see it, and even though smeagol had a stronger connection to the ring than bilbo at the time, he could not find it in the darkness of the cave, nor tell bilbo was wearing it
you're deliberately ignoring things that were spoken directly, I'm pretty sure the ring could easily compel someone to open a locked box out of curiosity
>because the ring was hiding
Source???
Note: your moronic headcanon is not a source. The ring has to wait for thousands of years before someone fished it by complete accident.
I’m afraid this is correct yes. It also spent hundreds of years in the mountain caves with gollum until bilbo arrived. It couldn’t compel gollum to leave a fricking cave.
didn't Gollum's long familiarity with the ring's tricks and his own bolstered power give him some resistance? seems like someone like Gollum who just wants to enjoy the ring in a NEET cave is harder to compel than someone who wants to use it to control others. he was obsessed with coveting his treasure not domination
Pretty much yeah. IIRC the whole village hated him and he resented them for it so he just wanted to vanish off the face off the earth. He really only used the ring for hunting goblins, evading enemies etc, nothing particularly evil
>Why didn't Gandalf put the ring inside a locked iron box
Impossible to do. No one has the will power.
Tell Bilbo to put it in a box then. That's what he already did with the necklace.
did you miss the whole Boromir thing?
Sam wasn’t affected much by the ring anyway. In the book Sam has nearly a Tom Bombadil level of immunity to the ring’s allure. He takes the ring off Frodo to continue the quest when he thinks Frodo’s dead from the Spider bite and hands it back to Frodo without a moment’s hesitation when Frodo comes to. (That, btw, is when Sam becomes a ringbearer, not when he carries Frodo)
There are many plot holes in the Peter Jackson movies, and basically none in the books, except for Sam somehow not giving a shit about the ring.
Sam is just too pure-hearted. If someone was not to be affected by the ring, it'd be him. The guy has too much good in him.
>In the book Sam has nearly a Tom Bombadil level of immunity to the ring’s allure.
Good it was not that severe in the movies, I guess.
>Return of the King first scene: sméagol killing his cousin déagol before taking the ring
>speedwatching twitter moron eceleb: WHY DID NOT USE LE MOUSE? ME SMART!
sam had stronger will than sméagol, but eventually even he would succumb and kill his friend frodo. why would either even care for a random mouse?
>Hobbits are extremely resilient to the ring
>Except for Smeagol, who is driven to murder his friend within seconds of being near the ring
Is this ever explained or is Smeagol just like the weakest willed bloke in all the land
he's some other type of halfling
I dont think all hobbits are resilient to the ring, hobbits are naturally pretty jealous, they're just sturdy and hardy folk who are very contented and not particularly evil, even if a hobbit became dark lord he would use his terrible power to ruin Barbin Flatfoot's next harvest because he didn't get a very nice gift from him at their last get-together
>if a hobbit became dark lord he would use his terrible power to ruin Barbin Flatfoot's next harvest because he didn't get a very nice gift from him at their last get-together
kek
it's a pretty common impulse for people to be bitter or seethe, or be downright delusionally greedy when being in close proximity to good fortune. consider 2 kids walking in the woods and one finds a piece of treasure or something. or 2 people get gifted lottery tickets and 1 guy wins a million
combined with the Ring's mindrape it's not a stretch. he was just an average bloke, maybe a bit of a dickhead already
and it was his birthday after all
Smeagol and his brother were river-folk, not hobbits.
Hickory, dickory, dock!
>write beloved books that become so popular and influential almost every fantasy writer pays some form of homage to it in their works
>some moron on twitter thinks they've figured out a massive plothole no one noticed for decades because of logic based on an incomplete understanding of the plot, carefully leaving out crucial details that could easily explain said plothole
twitter has the most bitter homosexuals on earth, but their egos go beyond comprehension.
>canonically the only requirement not to get tempted is to just not see the ring or know where it is
>none of the characters ever think to take advantage of this because plot convenience
Tolkien was a hack, even for a children's writer
>Mordor is 20 minutes from the shire
I wanna punch this homosexual.
>we can't just give the ring to tom because he's a frickin hippie nutjob who will lose
>NO we can't just throw it in the ocean because some evil sea monster might find it or some shit idk
>nononono we can't use eagles because it's simply beneath them to ask them to do this for us. they might see us flying or something
>NONONONO don't give it to me i will become a frickin even WORSE dark lord
>you can *NOT* give the ring to the elf lords either because they will be massive jerks i guess
>so yes, i've come to your little quaint part of the world and have singled out YOU specifically to take on a quest that will maim your soul and essentially ruin your life because you will have not peace again until you die because uhhh.... small people can carry big burdens or something
>now hurry on and go put this ring in some lava
>>we can't just give the ring to tom because he's a frickin hippie nutjob who will lose
they offered it to tom but he said he'd just misplace it again and refused. there wasn't really much they could do after he refused since tom is moron OP and just does whatever the frick he wants.
im not gonna read the rest of your post if you're gonna open on something that moronic
If you’ve not read the books, you have no business trying to point out plotholes. You don’t have an understanding of the story.
why not smelt iron around the ring so it’s in a small ball of iron and then carry that. No one would know what it is and no one could use it, at least not immediately without melting the iron
the bearer of the iron ball would go mad wondering if the ring was still in there, kind of how Frodo suspects Tom stole it when Tom makes it disappear and reappear
not if noone knows there's a ring inside there. They just see a ball.
what if the ring grew and broke the ball open
The ring doesn't have the capacity to grow that much, or it would've just made itself too giant to be carried up Mount Doom
Also metal is chosen because it bends and dents instead of breaks, same reason we use metal in submarines when wood is often harder but more brittle
The elves would have been pissed off if a mouse showed up at the undying lands
Why not give the ring to Smaug?
>but he'll use it
No he won't, he's a strong-willed dragon and he wants to sit on it
>but he'll give it to Sauron
He'll fricking destroy Sauron and all his armies, Sauron got beaten up by a regular man and before that a dog
If Gandalf is a higher-intelligence angel then why didn't he build a plane and fly the ring to Mordor himself?
he tried but he accidentally hit The Two Towers and Frodo was so ashamed he scrubbed the whole incident from the Red Book of Westmarch
Why didn't they get the Sandworms to dig a tunnel to Mordor? It saves you the time of crossing a mountain and they dig faster than horses run
Why didn't they get the Eagles to fly above the clouds to Mordor then divebomb into the volcano? Ground visibility is impossible above a certain height that Eagles can soar
Dem egles size of a corolla
evil eyeball would burn their wings up like a laser
it can't do that tho it just an eye
What you're doing with the mouse is the same thing you're doing with your finger. You are willing the ring to be in your possession. The body is just flesh and bone, it's just an expression of your will. Should you extend your will through a mouse to keep the ring, you will still be affected. Welcome to magic, Black person.
Why didn't they take the ring to the Undying Lands? Sauron can't go there without it killing him instantly
>affected
him typing the tweet and using the wrong 'affected' means he is a brainlet
You also know he is a brainlet because he is trying to think about a magic ring in a make believe book
He is a brainlet because he typed "effected" and not "affected", yes.
That mouse would have become a massive butthole though, just scratching and biting, trying to save it's precious.
And it would take weeks, what if the little bastard got loose and took the ring with it? Then you've got an invisible mouse running around mordor with the ring.
Why didn't they make Grond carry the ring?
>Be ol Tom Bomb
>Have a wife who is forever in her prime
>people wonder what you are such a jolly fellow with boots of yellow.
Why is he the best character in the franchise?
The Ring was affecting Sam though. It affected the whole Fellowship, some were just better able to resist than others
Why didn't they kidnap Tom Bombadil and threaten to rape his wife if he doesn't take the ring to Mordor?
He's said to be impossible to capture or imprison so there's zero chance any tempted individual or Sauron could stop him
"UH THIS FICTIONAL RING IS UH MAGIC AND UH"
Shut the frick up arguiing about a made up ring
>stop discussing the details of an intelligent and complex fantasy beloved by all to better understand and appreciate it
okay Dad
If Eru intervened at the last second to destroy the ring then why didn't they all just sit around and do nothing then wait until Eru is so fed up he just erases the ring anyway?
If the ring can be melted in lava (Sauron described Mount Doom not as being magic, just that its lava from the centre of the earth) then why didn't they just dissolve it?
What makes you think it can be dissolved?
Gandalf conjectures in the beginning that the ring can be broken based on amount of heat, not just its source. He says a Dragon's heat would be enough to destroy it if it's hot enough, but that no dragon's heat is as hot as Mount Doom so Mount Doom is the only option.
Therefore we can conclude that it is the quantity of an entropic force that destroys the ring and not simply where it came from, a dragon can't do it only because it's not hot enough, but if something is as hot as Mount Doom it can destroy the ring.
Breaking or melting an object is breaking the Van Der Walls forces (intermolecular forces). But dissolving a substance isn't "breaking" it, it's getting rid of its Covalent bonds (chemical bonds), effectively turning it into a new substance instead, that material of which is now spread about the solvent.
That's why they should've just dissolved it in Aqua Regia.
False. A dragon's fire could destroy the lesser rings. Not the One Ring. The One Ring's protection is magical. Gandalf states this explicitly.
No he doesn't, he is talking about the One Ring when he says Dragon Fire could do it if hot enough. The One Ring's protection is only protected by amount of heat
>It has been said that dragonfire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the hold fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.”
He explicitly states that the One Ring is not like the lesser rings and that no dragon could harm it.
He explicitly states a paragraph comparing heats of forges. He says Frodo's fire isn't enough to melt any gold, that Dwarf fires aren't hot enough to melt rings of power, that nu dragons also aren't hot enough to melt rings of power, that that ancient dragons are hot enough to melt rings of power, but only Mount Doom is hot enough to melt the One Ring, because that's the forge where it was initially cast (melted)
Read the quote again. Then again. And then one more time.
Read the book once please, without your moron glasses this time.
Gandalf compares the heat of forges, and says only the heat of the original forge that melted it, Mount Doom, is hot enough to melt it, in the paragraph you left out.
"There is only one way: to find the Cracks of Doom in the depths
of Orodruin, the Fire-mountain, and cast the Ring in there"
>nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.”
Read homie read
>Cracks of Doom are hot enough to melt the ring
>Ancient Dragons aren't hot enough
You'd think this would be easy for any moron to understand, but it makes sense only a Tolkien simp could be this dumb.
What is the reason given by Gandalf as to why the dragons can't harm the ring? Hint: It's not "they aren't hot enough" and it's written in the post you just replied to. Read it again.
The reason he gives is that they're not hot enough
Hint: He literally says that not even Ancalagon is hot enough to destroy the One Ring, because he's listing different heats of forges
>The reason he gives is that they're not hot enough
False. Read it again. They cannot harm the rings for....what? What comes after "for"? Come on baby boy, you got this.
They cannot harm the rings for not having enough heat to melt it, which is why he lists orders of successive heat in explaining it. Which is why he concludes they take the ring to Mount Doom, because that place was hot enough to melt it because that's how forging works. This is obvious to anyone with a reading level above 5.
Holy SHIT Tolkientards are moronic manbabies. Makes sense given the author was an untalented kiddy-level manbaby himself.
Please learn how to read. Your reading comprehension skills are legitimately at a toddler level.
>You cannot go outside, for it is too cold.
What is the reason you cannot go outside?
You cannot ask that question, for it is too rude.
What is the reason you cannot ask that question?
The dragons cannot destroy the One Ring, for it was made by Sauron himself.
What is the reason the dragons cannot destroy the One Ring?
The same reason Mount Doom can:
because Mount Doom is hotter than dragonfire, because Mount Doom DID melt the ring.
But of course Tolkienbabs are too immature and unintelligent to read paragraphs that shatter their fragile worldviews.
I'll just copypaste the post and this time I want you to answer each of the questions in turn.
Please learn how to read. Your reading comprehension skills are legitimately at a toddler level.
>You cannot go outside, for it is too cold.
What is the reason you cannot go outside?
You cannot ask that question, for it is too rude.
What is the reason you cannot ask that question?
The dragons cannot destroy the One Ring, for it was made by Sauron himself.
What is the reason the dragons cannot destroy the One Ring?
Read the questions twice and answer them all. If you do not, it will be considered a concession.
>literally admitting he has no argument
Well at least Tolkien blobs are self-aware now that they live in delusion.
Gandalf says only Mount Doom can melt it, because Sauron made it in Mount Doom, meaning Sauron melted it in Mount Doom, meaning Mount Doom is hotter than Dragonfire.
Anyone with an iq above 7 can understand this (so everyone with a higher reading level than a bad quality children's book, lol)
>Didn't answer the questions
I accept your concession, toddler-kun. I hope today was educational for you.
>talking to himself
>still no argument
LMAO
this is just sad now, Tol,k
Your concession was sufficient. There is no need to grovel.
It’s a magic ring mate. It can be undone only in the place where it was made. Angalacon on chili peppers aint gonna do it
Dam that's check mate right there
Damn that’s check mate right there
>make a lightning rod with the ring
>20x hotter than lava
simple as
I see, and while aqua regia dissolves gold, and the ring appears to be gold but doesn’t melt at the temperature gold melts, why would it dissolve in aqua regia? The ring is something more than gold, I think that’s clear. It’s impervious to physical damage, only sufficient heat distroyes it
>Sauron described Mount Doom
Never happened
I don’t think that’s accurate, it was the only place hot enough to melt it, no furnace was hot enough for the job. It’s not a regular volcano, it’s supernaturally hot.
just throw it in some aqua regia and pour it down the shitter
If the ring can't tempt dumb animals (couldn't tempt a fish to free it from the river) then why didn't Radagast summon a sparrow to fly it to Mordor?
I thought it tempted the fish to pull Deagol in the first place
There was no fish, Deagol just saw something at the bottom and grabbed it
He's talking about Hacksons shit where a fish pulls Deagol into the water
Why didn't they just ask the Eagles to tear Sauron limb from limb and kill him again?
Then you got another 1000 year waiting period while he ressurects wherein you can peacefully stroll over to the ruins of Mordor and plot the ring in the lava
would gandalf get corrupted?
Mega corrupted, he's a mega powerful wizard sovl only limited by old man body
>villain loses to a brief moment of poor hand-eye coordination
Why didn't Gandalf just dissolve the ring, drink it, then pee it out all over some plants in the Undying Lands?
Why didn't Gandalf put the ring in a particle accelerator?
Why didn't Gandalf ask his butterfly friend to take the ring to Mordor?
Butterflies are terrible at navigation
Why didn't they fly the Eagles to Mordor?
>Guys I know fire isn't hot enough to melt the ring, but I know a place hot enough to melt the ring: the place where it was melted in the first place!
They could've just taken it to most volcanoes
Why didn't Gandalf just invent ANFO to melt the ring?
Why didn't Gandalf invent a rocket and send the ring to space?
The ring would find a way to return, all while Evil grew stronger
Why didn't they make Sauron carry the Ring?
Why didn't they give the Ring to giga-chad Farmer Maggot?
The books are about 5times better than the movies but even being 1/5th as good still makes them the best movies ever and it was a phenomenonal achievement that Jackson was able to capture even that much of their magic.