>In terms of minimum room size, the guild in May asked for a minimum of staff of six writers and one additional scribe for every two episodes after that, with a maximum of 12 in the room for pre-series-order scripted programs. The tentative agreement includes a minimum staff size of three writer-producers for a first-season show for development rooms running 20 weeks or longer, with a formula for additional seasons tied to the number of episodes. Minimum room size has been one of the thorniest issues during the five-month work stoppage, as showrunners previously were able to determine the size of their writing staffs. The WGA pushed for minimum room size requirements in a bid to prevent studios and streamers from employing AI as a means to save costs on scribes.
>https://archive.is/2023.09.27-193859/https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/writers-guild-tentative-agreement-details-released-1235601184/
TL;DR the studios have been reducing the number of projects due to the failure of streaming and multiple movie flops, and many projects were cancelled during the strike. Now writers don't have the writer's room they had before, instead they got a minimum of 3 writers, far from the 12 they were asking for
>The union seemingly did not secure a commitment from the AMPTP that would allow union members to refuse to cross other unions’ picket lines without consequences, as they asked for starting in August, as SAG-AFTRA remains out on strike.
Also they can't continue striking to help the Film Actors Guild like they promised. This isn't a lost, just wanted to tell you guys in case someone was wondering
That doesn't sound like a win either
The huge writer rooms are the reason everything is bad now. With 20+ writers everyone is trying to insert their own dumb ideas, which is why characters have different personalities from episode to episode. Adventure Time was one shining victim of what too many writers can do to a show.
Exactly. Big committees aren't great for creative work. More than 5 is probably too many.
>The huge writer rooms are the reason everything is bad now.
There are no huge writers rooms anymore. There are "mini-rooms" consisting of less than 4 writers who aren't a permanent employee of the season, making it more like a gig job. That's what the WGA was fighting against and they ultimately won by gaining a minimum staff of 3 writers and a addition 3 writer-producers for a 6 episode minimum.
>Adventure Time was one shining victim of what too many writers can do to a show.
No, the issue was Pen losing interest, Rebecca Sugar leaving for her own show and Adam Muto not having a good vision for the rest of the series. AT had a standard amount of storyboard artists for an animated series.
>There are no huge writers rooms anymore.
Because now people write over Skype calls.
Even in the 90s people tended to do entire multi-hour meetings over group phone calls.
>That's what the WGA was fighting against and they ultimately won by gaining a minimum staff of 3 writers and a addition 3 writer-producers for a 6 episode minimum.
This is a really bad thing. They were arguing for shows and films literally being written by committee. God forbid we have anything written with a single person's vision.
>They were arguing for shows and films literally being written by committee
They're not "written by committee", they're directed by their boss the showrunner who has final say. The writers room gets together to break stories/pitch ideas, and once they have a good idea of what the season will be they dedicate who gets which episodes to flesh out.
>once they have their slop will be they dedicate who gets which episodes to add more slop.
>moving the goalposts
Thinking the stories are bad is irrelevant, the point is that it's not by committee, the showrunner is the boss.
I ain't moving goalpost because I'm not that anon, you goof.
what do you think a committee is
Yes this was the process that BB and BCS were with. What's your favorite TV show b***h?
>God forbid we have anything written with a single person's vision.
There is no such fricking thing unless the writer is also a director and/or producer, which is fairly rare. Your average writer is entirely on the mercy of the executives who will make all kinds of stupid and random demands for changes as well as the director who might take the job and then demand complete rewrite to be done or revise the script heavily themselves. This is why you have plenty of fights where multiple people work on a script and then the guild ultimately makes a decision who gets credited. That is how someone can get story by credit that just means they came up with the original basic idea but then the screenplay itself is credited to some other people because they took your script and then rewrote it completely to a point nothing about the original script basically existed anymore.
Even on TV show the idea that just one creative voice shapes everything and is God doesn’t happen that often. There are exceptions where the show runner sticks around for the entire project but it just as easily happens that they leave and/or almost every season gets new batch of writers and even show runner. Columbo had people leave all the time and new people came in. There was never any kind of unified and original idea what Columbo was meant to be. It evolved all the time. Peter Falk was deeply involved in it as well creatively and kept fighting ideas left and right. He didn’t even want the dog initially to be introduced and the dog is beloved aspect of the show. TV series evolve away from their original design when they see how audiences react to the show. That’s how a small supporting character might actually gain more focus or even become a main character. All in the Family originally was meant to have Archie Bunker be the butthole who was always wrong but ended up being the main attraction and star of the show. By your fricking idiots logic that should have never been allowed.
Idiot
No, they were arguing for shows having the same writing staff all the way through, not studios using a miniroom to generate multiple episodes for free before production and then replacing that with entirely different writers to reduce everyone's pay and ensure people didn't have a start-to-finis handle on the story, which used to be standard practice.
>and a addition 3 writer-producers for a 6 episode minimum
They are part of the writers room count.
Had the original team been kept small, Justin Roiland would still be running Rick and Morty.
he still would have gotten fired for sexting minors
Love it when people who know nothing about how the industry actually works make up complete bullshit stories to push more culture war shit to blane woke and sjws ruining everything and then other mouthbreathing dimwits just take it as gospel and keep repeating the same shit over and over again.
It really tells how your entire mindset just revolves around playing the victim and butthurt and it doesn’t matter iota if anything you’re whining is true as long as you think it feels true to someone who thinks they’re oppressed because the culture isn’t stuck to their formative teenage years
>blane woke and sjws ruining everything
He didn't say that, schizo.
>It really tells how your entire mindset just revolves around playing the victim and butthurt and it doesn’t matter iota if anything you’re whining is true as long as you think it feels true to someone who thinks they’re oppressed because the culture isn’t stuck to their formative teenage years
Projecting much?
who are you replying to? surely the one you selected was a mistake
Cry more homosexual you didn’t make a single point
>umm sweaty you're wrong because [random passive aggressive buzzword vomit]
were you gonna try to make a point or something?
They hate you because you tell the truth
What truth? He just sperged about culture war shit and ranted about how dumb he was for being on the side he hates. He had no real point and made himself look like a butthurt idiot.
Who are you quoting?
Galatians 4:16
Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth, simple as.
>doomposting
Having ANY minimums is what they were ultimately asking for.
This isn't true at all.
This guy gets it.
Classic Simpsons was written collaboratively.
>This isn't true at all.
..How? Just because too many writers worked once, doesn't mean it'll work all the time.
Just because fewer writers worked once, doesn't mean it'll work all the time.
I'd say the Thundercats reboot is another good example.
>half the writers actively hates the main character and goes out of the way to shit on any achievements and accomplishments
>other half constantly having to course correct and trying to keep the story progressing forward
This isn't true at all Simpsons has a smaller team than during its golden age
Which WGA leader are you
Who the frick even needs 12 writers to make a single episode ffs???
That's not how it works and you know it. 12 writers develop the season, then each writes one episode
Who the frick needs 12 writers to write a single season?
Most good shows have around 10 writers in the writer's room. The Simpsons in it's golden age had around 14 writers per season.
Yeah but that’s when they’re pumping out 25 episode seasons, why the frick would you want 12 writers to write ten episodes?
>why the frick would you want 12 writers to write ten episodes?
They don't, the WGA minimum for 10 episodes is 5 writers.
Simpsons was episodic. You don’t need more than 3 for a serialized show.
>You don’t need more than 3 for a serialized show.
Wrong. More writers =more people keeping track of the consistency= tighter writing. Many serialized tv shows of the 2nd golden age have multiple writers.
>Wrong. More writers =more people keeping track of the consistency= tighter writing.
Yea, that works out great for comics.
Writing a comic and writing a tv show aren't the same thing. There's no comics writers room where all the creatives get together and plan out a story, it's always been a free-for-all based on who's available. The only reason early Marvel comics were very consistent is because Marvel was Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko and Stan Lee wrote almost everything themselves
It used to be. Now there is a writer's room for the XMen titles.
Hey fricking moron, writing multiple independent from each other comics isn’t the same thing as writing a TV show together where everyone gathers around in the same room and the basic structure and beats are planned out and agreed on and then the work is divided into episodes and assigned to different writers to work on.
It’s insane how you dumb motherfrickers keep whining about the very basic things that make TV shows work and good in the first place. You know nothing and then have the balls to cry about how something you just decided had to be the cause because you just made it up is the root problem
Stop clogging up the thread responding to posts from hours ago you braindead boomer moron.
Wasted quints on a wasted shitposting thread complaining about wasting posts.
Nice quints
>Thread engagement? Nooooooooo,
Only the most recent posts should have replies and (you)s!!!
remind me to reply to this post again 5 hours later just to piss you off
>More writers =more people keeping track of the consistency= tighter writing
>no argument
>troonyme (literally) reaction image
lmao
>troonyme
newbie
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Rent free.
>More writers =more people keeping track of the consistency= tighter writing.
That fails when the room is full of narcissists.
you definitely need multiple writers unless you want every show to have venture bros-tier production time.
uhh no that was [AS] refusing to give proper funding and fricking them around so much.
I’ve read the artbook back to front and the writer count is absolutely one of the reasons the show takes a long time to make, Publick went into laborous detail about how Season 4 was split into two parts because he burned out and couldn’t finish the initial episode order.
Yes it did take longer but for real no it was adult swim refusing to pay up or saying they would give X and then say well no here is 30% less then what we said. You think they would shit on AS in their artbook srsly dude
>Most good shows have around 10 writers in the writer's room.
The Sopranos had like 8 writers per season (or as few as 3 for some of the later seasons) and it takes a giant shit on any of these dogshit modern shows with 20 writers per season.
Why do Americans feel the need to have Fricking 20 writers. How about 3? Or 1
like other people have stated, its an unreasonable amount of work for just 1 or even 3 people
and the smaller number of people working on the script means no people to do corrections later on
They do it with comics too though. You only need one writer, not 10 that you randomly cycle through.
Because Americans feel the need for their TV shows to last 12 seasons of 25 episodes each.
Knowing the American workplace:
>1 writer is actually excited for the series
>2 Writers are just there for a check. They will shit out a problematic script then refuse to do any more work but insist to attach their names.
>4 writers are teenagers hired off twitter who will basically only go get coffee and think this is their big break.
>At least 1 is a prostitute pretending to be a nerd and trying to sleep up the ladder. She wont do any of her own work but scribble in lines in others scripts for name attachment. Will try to get the rest fired.
>2 are vagrants who wrote something in the 90s. Will produce 80% of the stank in the room and 100% of the moisture.
>1 or more will be a certified moron or mental case. They are there purely to slip in political messages their college professor told them to do/dire warnings about the apocalyptic dreams they have.
>Several will be using Chat GP to produce their scripts because they are blitz'd out on drugs or energy drinks to read what they are writing. It's okay though, the AI scoured their twitter feed to sound like them.
>then each writes one episode
NTA but that's honestly still bad it's still one show and that's too many cooks in the kitchen
What about the shows with 8 episodes?
That's not only wrong but also stupid. How can a show have coherent story or character development if every writer writes 1 episode? We could even try it right here:
>EP 1: Mike the Knight gets a cursed sword and he's told that he has to find the original blacksmith or he will die
Episode 6. Mike, after being severely beaten by his rival seeks out help in strange places from strange women.
> How can a show have coherent story or character development if every writer writes 1 episode?
He's not being literal anon, most of them write 3 or more episodes.
DS9, per example, had over 40 writers
Star Trek shows have a core group of writers who sketch out the characters and formula, write a bunch of episodes themselves, and then open up Wanted ads for any writer with a pitch that'll fit inside their show.
plus, DS9 was 7seasons, 22-25 episodes each. Stand to reason it got so many writers over nearly a decade
series now are what? 8-10 episodes at best? and good luck passing the second season mark
>episodes 4 to 7: Something completely unrelated to anything the plot has to do with but the show pretends it does for the sake of its audience despite doing so only opening up plot holes
Halo tv show in a nutshell
How the frick do you cuck an AI?
I wonder if they'll do that for Asoka
>We could even try it right here:
The difference being, is that if you get 20 anons in the same room they'll all suggest crazy, dumb shit they think is cool. So you'll have something moronic and incoherent, but nonetheless cool. See: stuff like The Idiots of Garry's Mod, but the skits make even less sense.
You get 20 calarts hollywood homosexuals in the same room, you're just gonna get a big o'l gay sundae.
This is where showrunners come in to micromanage shit.
has the overall plot written down and broken down as to what shit happens in each of the 10-13 episodes.
>Each episode has a synopsis of all of the key plot points that have to be in the episode
>>A writer is given an episode to write.
Once everyone turns in their first draft, the showrunner reads each script in order to make sure the story is being told to his specifics.
drafts are then ordered if the scripts are piss poor and not up to snuff or to better reflect the story flow and plot points so that the story doesn't get confusing/disjointed/not make sense.
That’s not how it works. One writer typically gets the main writing credit but multiple people can and usually work on all episodes usually.
That's a ton. Typically you get a writer or two that does the lion share and makes sure the different scripts have cohesion while you have other writers that pop in for like one or two scripts and work with the main writers.
Twelve is a lot at least for all at once.
do you really think a single person should write every single line of dialogue and every single action in a show?
or that a single person is responsible for every single edit, correction, or addition?
and smaller rooms means more workload for each person
they are literally just asking "dont put all the work on a small number of people" to go with "and pay those people for working instead of unpaid hours"
>do you really think a single person should write every single line of dialogue and every single action in a show?
No reason they can't it's less writing than a book and those are done by one person.
>books are done by one person
lol, are you still reading RL Stine or something
>lol, are you still reading RL
What the frick are you reading that has more than one author, and no the editor doesn't count he's not a writer
>le writing a book is the same as writing a movie or a TV show
Fricking idiots like this should be banned from spouting their nonsense opinions
>Ass mad Hollywood writer detected
Maybe try informing the class why you're correct rather than lashing out and adding nothing of value.
Why would I bother to do that and waste time articulating the major differences in just how writing a novel is fundamentally different from how the script has to work in order to be viable for live action presentation and convey things very quickly and simply in concise manner and also make it sound organic and natural when apparently all you have do here is make a blanket statement and then as long as all the other low IQ posters think it’s true then it has to be a cold hard fact.
YES YOU STUPID FRICKING Black person, IT'S CALLED WRITING A BOOK. YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMEDAY.
Writing a book takes months, if not years, and usually involves an editor.
There's also not a team of people lining up behind the work to do acting and set building or animation once the book is finished.
Nor is there producers telling you that x,y and z has to be added to the book because they made a product placement deal.
>Who the frick even needs 12 writers to make a single episode ffs???
I have studied in the field and joined some writers room, not in burgerland, so someone can better explain it:
You have the main writer, the name that will endup in 'written by' title card, and the writing room.
The room itself its used like a toolbox. You have an outline to work on, and the 10-15 monkeys will throw ideas around on how to develop it. You use a lot of ppl because it's basically a dnd party with classes: you have the continuity guy, the no guy, the funny guy, the melodrama guy etc etc
So imagine a writing room like Picard at the helm, and the crew that gives opinions. Sometimes one of the monkey sit at the helm etc. That's a good room.
The other kind of room it's when the monkeys have no captain at the helm and 'vote'. This produces shit quality and creates enemies between monekyes that will divide in groups and veto each other.
>That's a good room.
Not that anon.
If that's a good system that produces quality shows and can justify its cost with appropriately sized returns, then it wouldn't need to be mandated.
I'm not arguing with you about your personal preference for structure. I'm not questioning your personal experience and anecdotes. In fact, even supposing a fictitious world where having 100 writers will always produce the best results, that should not be a mandate, because this is business. You can't force people to spend money where they don't want to spend it, even if it's good for them. And based on the details we know now of the new contract, the studios barely budged on this. All they did was give the WGA a way to save some face and walk away without getting tarred and feathered by members who've starved for 5 months.
>still huffing the copium by trying to ACKCHULLY away the massive concessions that the WGA forced the studios to make
>then it wouldn't need to be mandated.
Motherfricker, corporate people love cutting costs to the bone, wtf are you talking about. These people are so goddamn stupid their notes on movie scripts is like “the character needs a dog” or something completely ridiculous like “couldn’t this story take place a at a boat?” that in no way actually improves the story. They literally have no understanding of storytelling, and they don’t care. They think anyone could do it. The just want to make tons of money and maximising profits so they get bonuses. Quality of the product doesn’t mean anything to the people making decisions of budgets. It’s inconsequential. If they could just go beep boop ChatGTP write me a successful tv show that rips off current child media trends they’d jump on that shit quicker than you could say “frick writers”.
>Motherfricker, corporate people love cutting costs to the bone, wtf are you talking about.
You say that like it's weird. It's. Their. Money. One way or another, they will make their cuts. Either other workers on a show are getting screwed, or the entire output is cut.
In the last few years, Hollywood as a whole have spent $60~70 billion on average on production costs alone. In 2024, we're looking at $50 billion. There's going to be less money in the system. Pay raises, minimum rooms, etc will not change this. There is pain ahead.
I'm that anon and I super agree with you.
I just wanna add that serial writing is more teamwork than solo projects like books and screenplay just because you need high volume in brief time (old TV was 20~ ep per season, a solo can't do that).
>If that's a good system that produces quality shows and can justify its cost with appropriately sized returns, then it wouldn't need to be mandated.
I don't agree with commieformians nor their request.
I've made the example of a room of 10ppl, but in reality a good room is 5-6 people maximum. There are many reasons for that, one of witch is the principale of the overcrowded factory line (dunno what's in proper eng): after you reach perfect capacity for every position if you add more ppl you will step in each other foot and productivity will go down instead than up.
Second, even in a small room most good stuff will come out from two people, so again, having 20 is useless.
This isn't about needing. This is about job security. They wanted a guarantee that they can't be left without a job when the show absolutely doesn't need them taking up oxygen in the room. Most of these losers aren't needed and they fricking know it.
Anons used to come here telling me to stop watching cartoons and watch anime instead
I laughed at them
And now I'm one of them
Funny how life works
I'm a little bit out the loop, so does this mean they win or not? how will this effect shows and movies now?
They completely folded, They received a few meaningless platitudes like more health benefits and shut they couldve easily negotiated without a a strike just so they could go back to the union members and say they got something; but the truth is they got nothing they were asking for
The studios are still allowed to employ AI writers which was the crux of this entire thing
>The studios are still allowed to employ AI writers
This is a loss for all of us...
is it really though? nobody is capable of original ideas, so I'd rather have a writer trained on all of histories great works instead of normie pop literature so they can self insert OCs
>nobody is capable of original ideas
>so we should replace them with machines that physically cannot come up with new ideas
you
DENSE
motherfricker
Who's going to write better stories? The writers of She-Hulk or an AI copying Tolkien?
unironically the writers of she-hulk.
>copy tolkien
>90% of the writing gets ignored because it's all fluff that wouldn't translate into the screen
Who's going to parse that AI generated Tolkien script and make it work?
LOTR is just a series of shitposts about Tolkein's fantasy world interspersed with random songs, recipes and other bullshit
it is not good writing, most of the key moments you think come from the books are just Jackson things
key example, in the Hobbit there's the main story everybody cares about - the dwarfs and Bilbo and Gandalf journey to the mountain and steal the shit - and there's some old shit about Laketown, which nobody ever gave a shit about, and there's even more old shit about multiple armies showing up which is exactly what your buddy-road-movie story doesn't need, a huge fricking battle scene
and then that ends with everyone just agreeing to disagree and get along, because it was written on the fly to keep his kids interested in bedtime stories
none of it actually matters, all of it could have been cut even from the novel and it wouldn't have made a difference to the shit people care about, but they didn't cut it, they just printed it and you forgot how bad it was because you saw some old movie by some kiwi about gay hobbits smoking weed erry day, you 90s frick
>LOTR bad
>as proof of this, let me talk about a completely different book that's not LOTR
Frick off, Wendig.
Shit, I didn't even think about it but that post you responded to probably was Wendig, wasn't it
The AI.
Have you ever read an AI-generated story? It always, ALWAYS degenerates into an incoherent mess. Stories, even bad ones, are an expression of the very soul of humanity. Some bundle of algorithms simply does not have that. Even if it is all grammatically correct, even if it follows the patterns of an esteemed saint of the literary world. It can only imitate, and do so poorly.
Still better than She-Hulk
Sounds like you read the ChatGPT equivalent of the Stable Diffusion pajeet who proompts and posts the raw output as his "masterpiece." You'll never notice the stuff actually edited
If I'm not going to watch either way, why the frick should I care?
Well, if we're not getting original ideas regardless, may as well use an AI that at least only needs electricity and an internet connections rather than a paycheck and benefits.
This site is driven off spite. As long as the people they don’t like are screwed over it doesn’t matter if things don’t actually get better
>nobody is capable of original ideas
There are plenty of original ideas but studios would rather make a remake because there’s no incentive in making new shit that will not gain enough attention to make it billion dollars at the box office
At least the AI reads the source material
Star Trek: Enterprise is probably the best example of how AI could write. Gobbles up the ST wiki, understands that statically the family guy/rick & morty setup is best for western animation, and does just enough flashbacks to keep old fans hooked.
Not bad but not great output.
With the modern animation landscape, it's not any worse than the status quo.
oh ok, so AI is here to stay then.
Wasn't that obvious?
This was inevitable at this point. When they had the trend of replacing actual writers with storyboarders then that was the time to protest. Now the position of writer has been worn down so much that essentially they are just a mindless zombie that fills in words and topical phrases the producers or showrunners want. So really AI is just an automation of that instead of hiring idiots.
did they get streaming residuals? that seemed like one of the major things to me (unless that was for the actors, I can't remember)
>One important and sticky priority for the union this negotiations cycle was attaching compensation to the success of streaming shows — the union proposed to “establish a viewership-based residual — in addition to existing fixed residual — to reward programs with greater viewership” and to “require transparency regarding program views.” Its compromise with studios was establishing a new residual that would reward projects that “are viewed by 20 percent or more of the service’s domestic subscribers in the first 90 days of release, or in the first 90 days in any subsequent exhibition year.” Made-for-SVOD films and series would incur a bonus of 50 percent of its fixed domestic and foreign residual once it hit that benchmark, resulting in bonuses like $9,031 for a half-hour episode on major streaming services and $40,500 for a streaming feature with an over $30 million budget.
>The WGA entered the strike asking for a cumulative 16 percent increase in residuals over the three-year MBA and wound up with 12.5 percent. The union additionally secured an increase in the employer contribution to the union’s health fund, based on reportable earnings, of 0.5 percent in the second year of the contract (going from 11.5 to 12 percent).
Oh yeah, they got their streaming residuals, and an increase to their general residual rate as well.
Oh okay, good for them then
all this means is your netflix subscription will go up again
not my problem
>your netflix subscription
>your netflix subscription
Yarharharhar
>me opening up my go to website
>Don't pay
>Don't pirate
>Literally account sharing even though Netflix tried to crack down on it
>Still never watch anything on it
I never lose baby!
You like a baby
>only reads shit posts on Cinemaphile while wifu hunting.
haha nice one anon
>your netflix subscription
>netflix subscription
What's that?
>your netflix subscription
>Your Netflix subscription
Seriously Anon, where do you think you are?
>Its compromise with studios was establishing a new residual that would reward projects that “are viewed by 20 percent or more of the service’s domestic subscribers in the first 90 days of release, or in the first 90 days in any subsequent exhibition year.”
So only the shows that are super successful get increased residuals.
Yes, if you do a hit show that’s successful or becomes more successful on streaming you should also get better royalties for it rather the standard rate
>Its compromise with studios was establishing a new residual that would reward projects that “are viewed by 20 percent or more of the service’s domestic subscribers in the first 90 days of release, or in the first 90 days in any subsequent exhibition year.
So basically only writers who are successful are guaranteed any benefits.
This isn't a win in anyway, in all likelihood established big writers will get gigs that will get big anyway while smaller one's still get fricked.
More over what this means is that with this, the AI rules being test monkeys for AI but without the studio and just on the writers part, and writers limits because the union is fighting for more jobs while the studios are fighting for job cuts, means that this will inevitably cause more clickbait shows like Velma to breed because as long as it gets clicks it wins writers more leverage.
Thank you WGA for setting up a ticking timebomb that will both cause studios to lose money and inevitably cause inner conflict within your union that will result in an inevitable split.
>Thank you WGA for setting up a ticking timebomb that will both cause studios to lose money and inevitably cause inner conflict within your union that will result in an inevitable split.
You love to see it
>So basically only writers who are successful are guaranteed any benefits.
yes, people who are good at things get rewarded
only failures get upset about this shit
>yes, people who are good at things get rewarded
>only failures get upset about this shit
So, yes, 70% of the union will turn on the 30% that got successful and cause a schism, got it!
>The studios are still allowed to employ AI writers which was the crux of this entire thing
This is incorrect, there was a bunch of restrictions put on using AI when the AMPTP wanted none.
>The studios are still allowed to employ AI writers which was the crux of this entire thing
kek
What fricking AI writers?
Whatever wrote picrel, for a start. There's no way someone human came up with this bullshit.
The frick is that fricked up perspective?
Who okayed this shit?
Haven't watched the episode, but I would assume it's a pan out upward shot?
Anon, look at Fry and how he's positioned, especially relative to the staircase.
The perspective is fricked.
>I'm a little bit out the loop, so does this mean they win or not?
There's less writers working but the ones that keep their job get more money, except for those whose increase in salary don't make up for the 5 months without payment.
>how will this effect shows and movies now?
There would be less shows but the shows that are greenlighted will have better writers (hopefully). Also they can only use AI if the writer agreed so there's a chance they only hire writers that agree with AI
They basically took the offer that was offered in August
>studios gave a final offer. Take it or freeze to death in the coming holidays.
WGA will claim it was a victory regardless.
>Take it or freeze to death in the coming holidays.
Seth MacFarlane just gave 5 million to fundraiser a week ago and yet you feel confident saying this stupid shit, lmao.
That was before of after the news of strikers getting evicted?
There was no such news. IATSE has been talking about their stuggles but they're not on strike, just out of work.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/hollywood-workers-evictions-rent-assistance-strikes-1235580178/
>Seth macfarlane just did a tax write-off a week ago!
ok and?
The WGA will spin this as a win. But ultimately none of this matters because the studios will always and forever will be in control of their outlay. They decide how much money they want to spend. If the studios collectively decide to cap their spending at $50 billion, then that's it. The writers and the actors can try to grab a bigger piece of the pie all they want, but if the size of the pie does not change, then it just means fewer people getting pie in the end.
A bunch of production contracts were already cancelled before this deal was reached. We know this. This is what the studios wanted. Disney even explicitly said they were cutting back on productions for "quality purposes." Netflix doesn't give a shit, they license content from across the globe.
The only people who can rescue Hollywood is the WGA themselves. But they don't have the will.
the forced # of writer thing is a huge shitshow and a lot of people on strike were unofficially against it as most projects really don't need that many writers and forcing increased numbers sucks and is arguably featherbedding
There's nothing wrong with featherbedding. You need to keep an economy moving. New York is full of state employees meaning the entire state economy outside of the high earners like celebs basically runs on featherbedding
Are you trying to convince us or convince yourself, parasite?
Lol, I knew these spoiled shit heads would end up shooting their own prospects in the foot by getting all their work cancelled
I can't believe AMPTP actually bothers to have shills on here
>writers win, audience loses
Man frick everything.
>Strike when the economy is in the crapper.
>Expect safety with a gig job.
Why are you trying to pretend they lost? Writers won handily.
Corpo bootlickers/AI shills need to pretend that the unions are all big dumb meanies because something something WOKE
The best part is these frickwits only managed to get their demands for a set amount of time, 3 years. This moronic protest is going to reoccur 3 years from now once the agreements are up.
That's how contract negotiations work. Didn't you see the MLB lockout last year?
You notice how Fionna and Cake have like 8 writers an episode, and none of them were worth the effort?
It's 4 storyboarders, not 4 script writers
Wow its like putting more conditions in employeers would make them employ... less
They weren’t even actually hiring anyone before this, they were gathering a bunch of fresh faced contractees for projects and more or less leaving them hung to dry after with no chance of growth or experience gaining. Rinse and repeat. The shitposter telephone game that the WGA’s very clear demand to stop doing that became >”THEY FOUGHT FOR WRITTEN BY COMMITTEE” reeks of AMPTP paid shills.
>Shill calling other shills.
>WGA’s very clear demand to stop doing that
What "clear demand"? Media sites didn't talk about it and the picked lines videos only talk about "starvation wages" (of 8k per week)
To end the practice of mini rooms so that younger writers can actually stick to their shows and get experience needed on the job. They talked all about this during the strike and after
Source?
Its creative writing JUST READ THE FRICKING SOURCE STOP WITH THE FRICKING CRINGE. ANYONE WHO WRITES CAN DO A FRICKING BETTER JOB THEN THESE FRICKING HACKS. STOP FRICKING HIRE OFF POLITICS AND STOP HIRING TUMBLR FANDICTION WRITERS
Has nothing to do with your boogeymen, stop sperging.
https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-guild-contract-negotiation-mini-room-1235568173/amp/ There’s more to it, but this is the primary reason why the writer’s room stuff is a victory for them. These have been workarounds to get less writers and more work, which leads to screwing over everyone new and old except the execs.
I make only USD110,000 a year. I have no home
Writers are responsible for shit being terrible
Every single writer based show has been ass, we must RETVRN to story board based shows
frick no Steven Universe was a meandering unfocused mess
So you're telling me it took 12 monkeys to reproduce the exact same garbage I saw decades ago?
Why should I feel sorry for them again?
Theyre the ones making the shows YOU watch and YOU like for no cost for YOU
Not only should you feel sorry, you should thank them for their service
Threw my tv out 12 years ago and haven't looked back on American media since.
I thank them for keeping the public moronic.
>says this on Cinemaphile
>says this with a drawing of a character from American media
>Yeah, well...your reaction image, though!
Take the L.
>No rebuttal
Concession accepted
AND another one to add to my collection?
Today is a good day!
>YOU like
>Theyre the ones making the shows YOU watch and YOU like
>YOU watch and YOU like
LOL
>no cost
LMAO EVEN
Yeah worse shows and now 12 apps that cost as much as netflix totally no cost. We totally need 12+ writers per show. Shows should not be ran by one person who created the project and knows what they want to do storyboarders&animators should have no rights. More money should be spent on writers and VA's >animatiors lmao just send it to a third world country even tho hacks like Viz can animate something thats over 9000 times better than most shows of the past decade with much less a budget and far far better animation.
The VA's making up 50% of costs per episode is a great thing management taking up another 30% by doing frick all is all great.
>YOU watch
Nope! I check it out on youtube whenever I'm interested and quickly get disappointed
>and YOU like
Also no!
>for no cost for YOU
Actually no. If I had liked and watched something that would be the fee I pay for the cable or streaming service. Unless it's on antenna I would have had to pay to see it.
>the shows YOU watch and YOU like
Implying.
>for no cost for YOU
I'll have you know knowing all that shit exist is mentally tiring.
It ended too fast, the writers and the studios got what they wanted, i don't know about the actors, i wish they kept it for longer
On that note, im surprised the studios actually gave in to the demands, even if partially
They have lost so much money because of covid they cant frick around anymore what with all the loses. Even tho these people are the main reason for these loses. They cant change shit only force AI to be used and to fully study the IP creating shit that isnt fanfiction full of self inserts and mary sues but stories that work with the IP and is IC. Instead of the OOC trash that has been pushed for the past 7 years like scooby doo and velma this is pure fanfiction fricking trash velma is an ugly brown shaggy is a jogger fred is a homosexual it has nothing to do with scooby doo only to shit on the name so its all people think about whenever scooby doo is brought up in the future. Same with all the live action disney movies Walt would have a heart attack after all the shit they pulled. And all people will remember is shit like Black Arel shitting all over the little mermaid the movie that brought disney back from the grave.
Tl;dr this is all about subversion leeching as much money as possible and ruining everything Americana.
Why do they deluded themselves on winning if they are agreeing to let the AI be semi tolerated with heavy restrictions not knowing this very decision is going to bite their asses in a couple years? Why the frick didn't these morons tell me to frick off with the AI bullshit? This will most likely let corporations practice and legalized the AI even further and obviously open more doors to AI corps. What a way to ironically shoot themselves in the knee for the upcoming decade.
Oh anon..
You cannot outright ban a technology without the backing of the feds which the WGA does not have. Considering a lot of the workarounds for AI are covered under the protections, unless the ATPTP get their lobbyists to cry about “””limiting innovation”””, this is a pretty clear and concise win for them.
Given the courts have already decided that something created by AI can't be copyrighted, why don't these people just push to get that extended to the point that if a work contains anything created by an AI, it can't be copyrighted? Artwork created by AI? Public domain now. Used AI written script? Public domain. Seems a lot easier to push for a logical extension of the existing law rather than trying to strong-arm a multi-billion dollar industry.
Who do you think decides the laws? The public, the unions or the corporations?
In this case, the courts. They would need a carefully crafted court case with just the right judge, but it would be doable.
You live in a fantasy land. Who do you think wins, one idealistic judge or a billion dollar company with 10 lawyers on the case?
That could potentially open up a nasty can of worms if someone decides to follow that logic.
>Why does anything AI make get open sourced?
>because we can't decide who should own it since it's copying from so many other people.
>Ok so what about works people make that are inspired by or based on other works or artists?
If you’re moronic and can’t tell the difference between a person coming up with ideas that are iterative of works and can explain why they made the choices they made versus a literal piece of software that can only aggregate and remix what it was fed with only a thin sense of direction via the prompt, sure, that would be a slippery slope
It's less what I can tell the difference of and what slimy israeli lawyers can argue to mean that anyone who's works they can argue were "inspired" by their company should belong to them.
In that case, current court precedent says they’d rule in favor of AI shit NOT being recognized as inspired enough to be copywritten, just like AI art. https://www.reuters.com/legal/ai-generated-art-cannot-receive-copyrights-us-court-says-2023-08-21/
The real worry should be lobbyists trying to get into lawmaker’s bed for AIshit in the name of “business innovation”, but the only way to actually counteract that is to get lobbyists and money out of congress, and you can’t organize your way to achieve that unfortunately.
>Writers agreed to terms and proclaimed they won and love beats hate shit
>But they'll still complain the next month or week how they are paid fairly
I am calling that shit right now.
Just tell me if the strike is still going? i want rivers of blood
>Just tell me if the strike is still going?
The actors are going to follow suit soon and the Hollywood strike will be over.
>i want rivers of blood
The number of upcoming projects and obligatory writers is lower than before the strike, so many writers will have to learn to code.
>many writers will have to learn to code.
is that a euphamisim for sucking wiener? Because if it isn't it should be.
Dear God in Heaven, please let some shitheap frick the negotiations and have the unions beg for more money.
the number of shows was always going to drop, streaming isn't a sustainable model and never was, it's just cable with extra steps
how many times do you have to learn this lesson, old man? cabs, takeout, tv, everything the billionaire techbros say they're going to fix they reinvent at huge cost while extracting as much wealth from the industry and cutting as much service as they can
Maybe they should write better amd not woke trash
shows like wednesday suffered from huge writers room because no one could decide how wednesday should act. She was emotionless in one episode then in the next she would smile and get angry, then the next the other characters comment on how emotionless she is. Wednesday is the perfect example of a show that is popular because of shipping and the actors
good point
>The strikes did nothing but make things worse.
>Studios are also getting fricked over too.
Lmao. I TOLD YOU FRICKERS THAT THIS WAS GONNA HAPPEN. And you all called me a schizo. well look who's laughing now.
>t. laughing schizo
>>The strikes did nothing but make things worse.
are also getting fricked over too.
Gee, you fricking think? I hate to burst your bubble, Captain Obvious, but everyone knew that, and was hoping for it.
Did you really think Cinemaphile wanted anything less than Hollywood literally burning to the ground?
Anon, that's what we all wanted.
Who the frick was actually on the studios' side besides shills?
We all just want Hollywood to burn to the ground, both the shitty studios and the homosexual writers.
>>The strikes did nothing but make things worse.
I've seen plenty of professional writers pleased with this deal with the bulk of them saying it exceeded their expectations. None of them some to think it's remotely a bad deal, especially compared to previous ones.
The only places I've seen it called bad are this thread and a handful of paid bluechecks on Twitter complaining about it not being fair to AI techbros.
Did you really expect Cinemaphile chuds who hate everything and just spent several months shitting on writers and fantasising about total collapse of Hollywood out of pure spite to admit they lost and the writers won and gained more or less what they were demanded?
Well, now that you mention it, no.
Going off whar other anon said, it’s why you can’t take threads like this and in general this website too seriously. Most of the time it’s just shitposting, and the other 20% are legitimately delusional people scrambling for Pyrrhic victories in culture war issues that never directly impacted their own lives but they somehow win/lose regardless. The agreement the WGA put out detailed how they pretty much guaranteed all the bullshit workarounds to make AI writing a thing are either neutralized or so handicapped, there’s no point in doing it over just paying their writers, and multiple people on here are claiming this is actually complete and total surrender because AI was not banned entirely (a prospect never once seriously considered during the strike) and the Hollyweird AI Slop Acceleration Mass Bankrupting of all Commiefornia is still gonna happen any day now.
>Most of the time it’s just shitposting, and the other 20% are legitimately delusional people scrambling for Pyrrhic victories
What's going to be your cope in a few months when we discover the percentage of writers who can't find a job?
>in culture war issues that never directly impacted their own lives but they somehow win/lose regardless.
Such projection. You guys dedicate your life to fight against patriarchy, heteronormativity, fatshaming and other nonsense
>”it’s only okay for CHUDS to say they don’t like Stan Lee >:(“
Lol
I guess we are the same. Does that make you feel better about yourself?
Buddy if you aren't smart enough to see how this settlement will backfire on the union itself I don't know what to tell you, no shit professional writers are saying that it's a good deal, they're guaranteed to get more money now, but armature writers wont.
>won and gained more or less what they were demanded?
Who is "fantasising" (that's spelt wrong by the way) now?
>no shit professional writers are saying that it's a good deal, they're guaranteed to get more money now, but armature writers wont.
First of all, the amateurs with enough talent to go professional in the future will benefit from that deal.
Second, well, why shouldn't the people who belonged to the union and did the actual picketing get the most benefit of that? Isn't how things are supposed to work?
>5% increase in pay
>actual royalties
>transparency on viewer numbers
>cant force writers to use AI
>actually keeping writers on hand throughout filming
where is the bad news?
The bad news are the 5 months without pay and the reduced number of projects meaning there won't be enough jobs for all the writers
>you cant demand fair treatment and fair pay
>you might not get paid while doing it
actual victorian age factory owner logic
>get 5k in future projects
>lose 6k during strike
Actual prehistoric mathematics
A lot of people were already going months without a paying gig already because of how short of a time they were currently being paid to do writing jobs as everything writing related in streaming is front loaded to complete before moving forward with shooting and writers aren’t no longer kept around for the entire production time for rewrites etc. which used to be the norm in network programming.
>>cant force writers to use AI
Surely the studios accused of corporate greed wouldn't hire people based on their opinion on AI
Fantasising is a British spelling, mate. Stop butchering the ENGLISH language, yank.
>the writers who's shows didn't get cancelled are happy about their increased salaries
>First of all, the amateurs with enough talent to go professional in the future will benefit from that deal.
Only if the studios are hiring enough writers, which is not going to happen because they were reducing the number of productions before and during the strike.
>Second, well, why shouldn't the people who belonged to the union and did the actual picketing get the most benefit of that? Isn't how things are supposed to work?
The low tier writers lost money due to 5 months without payment, and the salary increase doesn't make up for it
The new contract benefits all writers just on the streaming residual front alone. The reason the writers went on strike in the first place was because of the poor work conditions the streaming era had created and the increased income insecurity from the drop of residuals and limited work security.
Sure, it sucks for people whose current show gig ended but they will also reap the benefits from the new contract in the long term. And they knew the risk of shows being cancelled yet they still overwhelmingly, with near unanimous approval gave the green light to go on strike.
Since I'm not getting my point across let me try harder... the WGA lost but the writers won. The union is getting less union fees, but the writers that still have jobs and didn't go evicted have better deals
The union won by getting its members better contract and their demands met.
What members? The top ones or the majority? Because if turns out 30% of the members loss their jobs I wouldn't consider it a win
So it was preferable for 100% of the writers just stick to the shittier work conditions and less pay? M’kay. Kinda doubt the writers would agree with that.
I thought you guys were socialists who cared about benefiting the majority
The new contract does exactly that.
They stopped AI from being used in everything without any restrictions and basically turning writing jobs in the future from just being “come and do few days of polishing this AI generated slop for us”.
>The new contract does exactly that.
I mean the whole group. I don't know why I said "majority" when that might as well mean 51%
The whole group is benefitting from improved salaries and residual payments and work conditions and work security improving from where they were before the strike. What is so complicated about this?
What about the unknown number of writers that are now jobless and aren't going to get a new contract because the number of projects decreased?
It sucks for those people at the moment but they were going to be out of a job anyway if the studios had their way
Unless the WGA agreed for more writers but less pay
But that didn’t happen
Exactly
>so we were just supposed to protect the jobs of the union members?
Obvious shitposting aside, you know bosses are just shitty and vindictive like that in general, right? Ford just “closed” a bunch of jobs because the UAW went on strike recently too, it’s a tactic to try and break the strike as they scramble to find scabs in the short term. If the strike is successful, the affected workers usually get their positions offered again because, who the frick else will take it, or are supported by the Union until they get back on their feet.
Studios were reducing the number of projects before the strike because streaming is bleeding money, this isn't (only) revenge, they want to make less shows a year
Plus a lot of these people will just. Remember who was on the picket lines and help them get on board new shows and writing gigs if they’re struggling. Unlike most people online, creative communities tend to be very “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.” types, for better or for worse
Do you want to keep appearances on this place or are you really this naive? If there only enough jobs for 1 person that person isn't going to take half of those and give it to another person
Biggest issue I can see about the streaming residuals are companies being more willing to remove failed shows (Willow) completely and the possibility of making the bigger hit shows unavailable for periods of time in between seasons.
They'll nickel and dime it to save a penny and burn their streaming channels down in the process.
>I've seen plenty of professional writers pleased with this deal
That's why they're writers and not businessmen.
The real kicker is that this contract only lasts 3 years. If the industry does not improve by then, the writers will be back here again in the blink of an eye.
That is how contact negotiations generally work.
I would say to look at how these agreements would be used to the detriments of writers.
>Instead of 10-12 episodes we are just going to have 6 episodes at the most then rehire season per season.
>They will hire scabs who will use AI instead of make their own scripts.
>They'll have staff take multiple roles like PAs will also be the writer producers.
It will work better for the writers that do get hired there are exploits in the agreement.
If they were asking for a minimum of 6 they probably wanted a minimum of 4. I bet they argue up for it by the time the agreement is final.
"Minimum number of writers" being a central demand has got to be the biggest warning sign possible that no one among the writing staff gives a shit about the quality of the end product. If anything, they should be demaning a MAXIMUM for the number of writers. Like make it so that only one person is allowed to write a given series and we might get some good writing again.
is this minimum writer quota thing normal? My perception of the really memorable works of art is that they are primarily written by a single visionary artist. Not a committee of squabbling writers.
For actual TV shows that go one for seasons and seasons, yes. Classic Simpsons i would argue falls under the category of a really memorable work of art, and Matt Groening himself did not write every single episode personally. I’d bet some of a lot of people’s favorites barely had him touch it behind being oversight as a showrunner.
go look up the credits list for any TV show ever, youll find there are dozens of people
>Not a committee of squabbling writers.
the process for writing a script is more complicated than "sit a single guy down until he produces 22 minutes of work"
they will have several writers working on it because they have to make enough 22-minute slots to fill a season
and they have to continuously edit and re-write that while under a deadline, so having a single person do everything is just not practical
and their job does not end when the script is finished, they have to come in and do re-writes when people start actually saying the lines out loud
actors might find a line doesnt work, or it doesnt fit the person saying it, or there was a flub up in the props department and the 12-foot gong is only 12 inches
so its an ongoing job that requires a lot of delegation
that doesnt rob it of artistic integrity
its just the stark reality of for-broadcast productions, its an inherently collaborative work that involves lots of people
and those people just want the guarantee they wont force 4 people to do the work of 12 people and they wont go unpaid for their job
this isnt a hard concept to grasp
writing staff is paid less, get less hours, and have less job security
they want more of that, which is a natural thing for anyone to want
>youll find there are dozens of people
no shit but were talking about writers and while it's always multiple writers it's not dozens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Simpsons_writers
Even in the early good seasons, Simpsons had about as many writers in the writing room as the Union demanded and won.
None of this is in service of the art. It’s because the union de,ands the writers do the rewrites rather than the director rewriting on the fly.
Just like the director can’t touch a camera because that’s the camera operators job and he doesn’t want to be made to feel bad.
Stop larping like you know anything secret, you just take the lies of Hollywood homosexuals at face value.
The only way to save Western media is to bring back cancelled shows.
they've been doing that they just ruin the old shows
I just want them to finish the story.
Moral Orel seasons 4 and 5 never ever ever
>Morel Orel with wokeness inserted, female characters have bigger roles and become the new main characters while every male gets sidelined and also Morel comes out as gay and also a bigendered lesbian that hates Christianity
This is what you're getting
I mean.
Isn’t that. Literally already the show?
>inb4 “that’s the joke”
unfunny.
Season 3 exists and that’s almost all the female characters being the lead instead of Orel. Stephanie exists and is one of the best characters, and Orel absolutely made himself into avatars of blasphemy unwittingly.
You’re not gonna find “based unwoke reaffirming true tradcath values” in fricking Moral Orel. Half the jokes are about the absurdities and tragedy of straight white Protestant suburbia.
>didn't watch the show
Yes Anon, it’s apparent you didn’t watch Moral Orel and just want to shitpost. I quite love it, I’m just saying the joke of “Moral Orel but WOKE” doesn’t work because it’s already pretty woke. Just not in a cringe Twitter millennial way so most people aren’t immediately revulsed to it here.
I hope you mean "bring them back in reruns". If not.. No dumbass, frick off with the reboots already
>the studios have been reducing the number of projects
Called this from the start. The ball was always on the studio's side of the court.
That said, this is still a very, very minor win for the WGA, and bad news for consumers. It's like fending off an attack during a larger retreat. Someone inside the WGA knew project cuts were coming, whether they struck or not. This is why they held out for the increase to the writers room minimum, despite getting concessions on everything else. It's the only thing that actually matters. AI was a red herring.
It's bad for us not necessarily because it may lead to price increases which, like the show cuts, are inevitable. What makes it bad is that writers are staving off rock bottom juuust a tad longer, so they can continue writing dumb agenda shit for another tv season or three. They're addicts, and The Agenda is their drug, and we need this industry to hit rock bottom before they finally kick the habit.
>Also they can't continue striking to help the Film Actors Guild like they promised.
I am sure they're collectively breathing a sigh of relief in private.
that's good news, most current writers are incompetent, egocentrical pompous who despise the audience for stupid ideological reasons and think of themselves as bunch of know-it-all who need to teach everyone what they should like and when they fail they blame everyone else but themselves.
with this i hope at least a little of quality standards in current western entertainment.
Unsurprisingly Cinemaphile isn't aware that animation and TV in general is inherently a collaborative medium and that it isn't the work of a single visionary
>moving the goalposts
weak
I prefer anime approach with the show being a faithful commercial to something already written
Instead we get shitty writers that think they are better than the OG thing
But anon, the best animes are the ones that are written by people who do their own thing. The straight adaptations are usually fricking trash, even the best adaptations have some pretty noticeable changes going to adaptation.
>But anon, the best animes are the ones that are written by people who do their own thing.
Good lord no, for every good original like Cowboy Bebop or Samurai Champloo there's a million dogshit originals people forgot that shit the bed halfway through.
>I just want to watch the same shit I read recreated in a bland way to a new format.
Also tons of classic anime took liberties with the source material and improved it rather than doing 1:1 copy paste storyboards from comic panels.
Christ look at all the goobers coming out of the woodwork going "ACTUALLY THE BEST ANIME HAVE 20 WRITERS CHUD"
You forget that every other board on Cinemaphile hates this board for a reason.
Yes all popular anime that aren't exactly good are based on pre existing properties.
Yes all good original anime are usual miniseries done on a smaller level. None of the buttholes above will cite replies saying otherwise because they know none exist.
That said the union did it because it means more work. It's technically a good thing in the same way all wagie waiters unionizing to somehow get enough pay to buy a home would be technically too, but I don't think encouraging people to wage all their lives securely in a job as demeaning as being a waiter is exactly a good thing.
GITS manga is a neat novelty that isn’t taken seriously among the canon for most people despite being the original vision. GITS movie is considered a classic despite being completely divergent from it, and Stand Alone Complex is what people consider as GITS in casual conversation and that anime had 9 writers alongside supervisors and such.
You don’t know what you’re talking about, but it’s cute you keep insisting.
>Stand Alone Complex is what people consider as GITS in casual conversation and that anime had 9 writers alongside supervisors and such.
I don't, in fact I find it incredibly boring.
Well you just have shit taste, which many such cases exist here. Point being, even Japan does it.
>not liking a series full of dry exposition dumps is having shit taste
Yes 🙂
Originals have their own issues, but the conversation was about adaptation anime. Stuff like Champloo isn’t really relevant to this particular conversation.
>:)
>unironically
good lord. off yourself. You're not funny.
No thanks 🙂
cringe.
sneed
>the show being a faithful commercial to something already written
THIS! So much this! Why the hell don't american studios adopt that approach for producing content? Is it really just because they'll generally only have licence to use it, rather than own the IP themselves?
>Why the hell don't american studios adopt that approach for producing content?
Because American writers think they're super speshul and the bestest writers ever, so whenever they adapt something they go out of their way to completely change it and make it moronic.
For recent examples, see:
>Wheel of Time
>Rings of Powa
>Y: The Last Man
>Watchmen
>Good Omen
>Cowboy Bebop
>Resident Evil
So on and so forth.
Most anime being elaborate advertisements for a work in another medium is one of the WEAKNESSES of the industry. It causes a lack of ambition and a virtual guarantee that the story won't go anywhere.
Cinemaphile has been consistently the worst place to discuss animation for a while. If I wanted culture war dipshits screeching every time they say a female or one of them uppity Blacks in a cartoon, I'd go on Twitter
You have to go back.
>a minimum of 3 writers, far from the 12
Damn, script quality will skyrocket.
It's times like this that I'm reminded most Cinemaphile opinions are shit
>better working conditions are bad actually
>Oh no, they won't be sitting for hours talking to other people as they spitball ideas and not do any single minute of manual labor for 6 hours.
Oh poor babies.
what do you think writing is exactly
Writing, no matter how bad it is. Because you must rewrite, edit, revise.
>you don't know what the job is
By all means mother fricker, tell me how hard your job of sitting ALL fricking day, pitching ideas, listening to people tear them apart, and then going back and forth on an idea is "hard".
Meanwhile there are actual people who are scrubbing grease from ovens being cooked for old people, cleaning floors of fast food chains, spending days on other peoples roofs in the fricking sun.
Do not fricking compare what writers do to fricking laborers.
>Meanwhile there are actual people who are scrubbing grease from ovens being cooked for old people, cleaning floors of fast food chains, spending days on other peoples roofs in the fricking sun.
And if those people organized and went on strike, more than half of the posters on this board would fantasize about them failing and call them unskilled labor wagies who deserve their lot in life all the same.
Those people never called me sexist/racist/homophobic so I don't hate them
Nah they just spit in your food when you’re not looking and talk behind your back in their mother tongues.
You seen to really hate the working class, commie
and while they do that in their native tongues, you starve in the streets, complaining about not getting a hand out.
What are you arguing for here moron? You understand the very same people who'd applaud to see you die in the street, jobless, broke, and without any sympathy are the same fricks in those writing rooms who want to make YOU look like you're evil. If you think you're exempt in anyway, wake up, you aren't.
I don’t think the writers on strike even know you exist, anon. You speak as if you met them personally.
>Cinemaphile
>Working class
>I don’t think the writers on strike even know you exist, anon. You speak as if you met them personally.
Look
class
Learn 2 read
What does a comic book person have to do with screenwriters? Comic books are people who couldn’t make it go to die.
That's a cartoon screenwriter
Same difference, really
>But they called me names!
It’s hilarious how edgelords immediately break down and start crying when someone turns the tables on them and accurately calls them a bigot
>why do the people I insult don't support me? Maybe if I insult them more...
Do you know the definition of insanity?
Have you ever considered not being a homophobic racist? Or are you one of those morons who thinks they’ll show people by turning into a bigot because you couldn’t accept you said something offensive and can’t just apologise?
Most people is not but when your so called "progressive" movement is looking actively to generate more race and gender conflict you get people respond accordingly, people respond hate with hate.
Have you ever asked yourself why in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of strong and important PoC and female characters and no one give a frick about their race or gender?
Gender theory and third wave feminazism wasn't a thing yet and everyone was far happier, specially geeks who were allowed to enjoy fiction without being scolded just for being straight or male
>but when your so called "progressive" movement is looking actively to generate more race and gender conflict
You sound just like every old guy whining about how in their day it was still okay to use racial slurs and think it’s persecution when civil society has moved onwards and doesn’t turn a blind eye on you acting like an butthole
I have 30 so yeah i'm kind of old.
You don't know me you don't know if im an butthole or not, a lot of people are buttholes, from different races and genders, making that a race issue blaming a whole race and gender of being buttholes is racist and sexists, blaming a whole generation for things that happened decades prior to them is not only unfair but borderline fascists.
bunch of hypocrites.
It’s not hard not being a racist, sexist or homophobic, dude. The fact you’re so defensive about it makes it pretty clear you’re probably an insecure butthole who doesn’t like that he’s become out of touch
Do you have an actual argument or you will keep calling names everyone who disagrees with you?
Get over yourself.
That's a no then.
i accept your concession
He sounds like the kind of guy who thinks the band 1975 was in the right for causing a ruckus in Malaysia, inadvertedly making life harder for the LGBT living there.
I hope it's the good writers that made the shows that you liked
Television was better when shows hard larger writer rooms. This is not a bad thing morons just don't know how this process works.
Television was better when the writers weren't trash. More trash writers in a room won't improve the quality. Frick all of you.
I will trust Taylor Sheridan on this.
>“The freedom of the artist to create must be unfettered,” Sheridan told The Hollywood Reporter in a lengthy interview. “If they tell me, ‘You’re going to have to write a check for $540,000 to four people to sit in a room that you never have to meet,’ then that’s between the studio and the guild. But if I have to check in creatively with others for a story I’ve wholly built in my brain, that would probably be the end of me telling TV stories.”
>“My stories have a very simple plot that is driven by the characters as opposed to characters driven by a plot — the antithesis of the way television is normally modeled,” continued Sheridan. “I’m really interested in the dirty of the relationships in literally every scene. But when you hire a room that may not be motivated by those same qualities — and a writer always wants to take ownership of something they’re writing — and I give this directive and they’re not feeling it, then they’re going to come up with their own qualities. So for me, writers rooms, they haven’t worked.”
>Well I am a writer and this model doesn’t work for me
Great anecdotal evidence that some people can’t collaborate. Now let’s look at the history of television, oh look at that, it’s overwhelmingly done by having a writer’s room and all the major classic and groundbreaking shows have done it that way instead of one guy sitting in front of a typewriter writing entire seasons on his own and somehow having major expertise on the various subjects they write about.
None of my favorite cartoons used a writer's room.
Among the biggest shows this year with both viewership and critical success is The Last of Us. Not accounting for the writers on the source material, this show had only 2 credited writers.
I'm not arguing whether more or less writers are better. It's simply a fact some shows with many writers do well, and some shows with only 1 or 2 writers also do well. There doesn't need to be a mandate. Productions hire as many people as they need, or can afford.
>There doesn't need to be a mandate.
It absolutely has to be mandated because studios have intentionally been cutting down the writing budgets as much as possible to cut costs. Go look up the interview David Simon gave while picketing at the start of the strike. The suits literally expect you to do free work for them by cutting down writing writers rooms.
>It absolutely has to be mandated because studios have intentionally been cutting down the writing budgets as much as possible to cut costs
Do you think this new contract is going to prevent cuts? Not at the project level. Pull back and look at the industry level.
There is no question the streaming wars fricked everyone. Some people blame the writers, others blame the executives. I don't care which you're on. The bottom line is a few streamers, possibly even major ones, are going to consolidate. Stock prices have gone down, which means small studios will have a harder time getting investments, and large studios will have a harder time acquiring loans for productions. The total amount of money in the system is going down. The only thing these raises and minimums do is change the allocation of the money, they cannot increase the money. So you're getting cuts. You're getting fewer episodes per season, fewer shows per season, more investment in foreign licenses, more reality tv, and fewer writing jobs.
I'm not saying any of this is a bad thing, I just think it weird you think this contract will stop cuts. It will merely change its form.
And where's your evidence?
You can just look at the history of American television. Bunch of success stories. Plenty of people who used to be in writer’s room went on to become major creative forces in film afterwards. Woody Allen, Mel Brooks, Carl Reiner, etc. all come from initially working in writer’s rooms. It’s a system that has worked for decades and none of the inane b***hing about them can prove otherwise.
No all best shows have a main showrunner who ultimately does most of the writing
Television was better when shows hired based on talent instead of ideology
>most only apply to big-budget direct-to-streaming productions
So I'm guessing for the next three years, there won't be any Netflix Originals besides what's already been made? This seems like it was written to be highly exploitable lol
>the only argument aipoos have is "well everything else is already bad so it doesn't matter if i'm making it even worse"
These idiots never want to make things better, they just want to pretend they're winning
ITT: cope from AI shills
>Accelerated contraction, more competition, reeled-in budgets, fewer overall deals and possibly more cancellations are some of the things industry sources are preparing for. One thing they are not anticipating: a flood of spec scripts.
>“No one is buying. This is the worst marketplace that I have ever experienced,” a veteran studio executive lamented to Deadline back in April.
>Said a major buyer last week, “The strike just sped up the inevitable pullback; I suspect everybody will be doing less.”
>“There will definitely be more rescinded renewals,” one industry insider said last week.
> Networks’ and streamers’ development slates also underwent close examination during the strike, and industry sources expect portions of them to be released, especially projects that were in early stages.
>“There will be clearing the decks on a lot of stuff,” one source said. Buyers “have reevaluated how much they want to do and areas they want to go. That has changed.”
>Show budgets by and large also are expected to be smaller even at places that have been generous, with an industry insider estimating that broadcast dramas would cost on average $4.5 million-$5 million per episode, and about half of that for comedy.
https://deadline.com/2023/09/tv-business-changes-writers-strike-impact-1235553886/
What would you all think would honestly happen if hollywood and the big 2 ceased operations right now?
I thought they were asking for LESS writers on the projects so that the process is not as diluted and there aren't as many miscommunications? Who do I believe?
WGA wanted 12-writer minimum.
What they got was minimums of 3~6, depending on season size.
There is one interesting caveat that I don't think has been mentioned here. Shows with a single contracted writer are exempt. So this is not a win for the WGA. All they've managed to do is ban shows with two writers.
>WGA wanted 12-writer minimum.
No they didn’t. Learn to read, moron.
Just to parse this for you fellas. What they meant by "up to a maximum of 12 writers" is that 12 is the maximum they can *require* the studio to hire for a show 18 episodes or longer. In other words, that's a 12-writer minimum.
What? No, how does that translate to a minimum?
What the WGA wanted was a formula that allows them to *require* up to 12 writers. It's a *maximum* in the sense that the requirement won't scale up past 18 episodes. What are they going to do, hire 100 writers for a show that's 100 episodes long?
Let me lay this out side by side:
-What WGA wanted:
>1 writer per episode for a series 6 episodes and fewer.
>1.5 writers for a series above 6 episodes, with a maximum 12. Studios can hire more if they want.
-What WGA got:
>3 writers is the maximum they can require of a show during its first season.
>6 writers is the maximum they can require of a production after the first season.
>Single writer shows are exempt.
I'm just going to call that last one the "Sheriden-Mazin Exemption."
Sorry, made a typo. That should say
>0.5 writers per episode after 6
In the mood to schizopost.
Another reason I started to focus on cartoons more than live-action was to get away from actors. Likewise, I made the choice to replace musicians (rock) with electronic music. All to distance myself from knowing/unknowing vessels of evil, quite frankly. Although I would've just identified it as a "dark, toxic, malevolent presence" at the time.
If a character deeply resonates with you in live action, then you have to form a connection to the actor. It's their likeness, their body, their performance. There's no way around it. If you become obsessed with a cartoon, well there's the VA and the animator to thank for that. And while their shared skill and performance is involved, their literal body and likeness is not.
It's much harder to directly feed the ego of a VA or an animator with your attention compared to an actor. The medium itself creates distance. The actor, the performer is the art rather than the artist.
As well as a "hungering void eager to mirror every action." Bojack Horseman actually made fun of my revulsion when they had an actress mirror Dianne. Of course that cartoon is much more connected to Hollywood than the norm.
Kys
Media is dead, everything will just become soulless AI garbage
Media's been "soulless AI garbage" for decades, anon. Some of your favorite movies were made with "AI."
You're already getting soulless AI shlock with a full staff of writers.
What does it mean?
>be the public
>don't care for internal matters in my TV entertainment
>simply want to watch something I like
want to watch something I like
Yeah about that...
Ok astroturfing, look forward to your bootlicking article in the Hollywood Reporter
I would much rather have one writer at the helm rather then 20 writers.
Mega companies never seem to be able to manage themselves properly. I think many small studios would probably fare better in the longer run.
inaccurate image. monkeys would actually make better movies than these clowns
It's funny how they were on strike for almost half a year but it felt like they were only gone for a few weeks. Even funnier that the masses were so disinterested with the strike that they'd rather give their attention to women's FIFA of all things. Oh well, back to late night TV coming back and activist role playing as writers.
>the first thing they announced after the strike over was a remake of The Office
Why do we need writers again?
We NEED them to tell us how out of touch we are, gut our culture for moronic points that will age poorly in a year, and for them to tell us how real work is through media even though we already know since most nonwriters have normal jobs
Studio executives are too moronic to properly make something seem new in a reboot.
Given that it's the third Office reboot though, maybe it'll try something new.
Ask Chat GPT to write an Office reboot script and see what happens
>He thinks writers go pitching reboots and remakes instead of executives who have all the power to decide what gets made and what doesn’t and will almost always go for the easiest and cheapest option ie exploit existing IPs as that’s less risky
How is it possible for you people to be so goddamn stupid you don’t understand basic concepts about how creating tv shows and movies work?
Good.
I can't believe the studios were so against making the viewing figures public that they just agreed to a flat bonus upon hitting 20%
I think it's crazy they managed to get mandatory staffing at all since that was a huge no for studios
I was honestly surprised I didn't think studios would budge on that even if 6 writers isn't that much for larger productions
>ITT people who understand nothing about how anything works claim the WGA lost because they’re overdosing on copium and making up things to claim why all the tangible contractual wins were actually losses because uhhh nobody will have jobs anymore in two years!
Great thread
It's anti-union shills.
Shouldn't you be looking for burnt land in Lahaina to buy for cheap?
>It's anti-union shills
Fricking wild that that this is a thing, how do people become so perfectly brainwashed that they champion the rich CEO's, bankers and paid for politicians that are currently making record profits and paying their workers as little as possible out of pure greed. These same posters and angry rally cheerleaders are exactly the people who would benefit from a union who is actually on their side? Convincing the poor to vote against their own interests out of culture war bullshit is the greatest and cruelest grift.
>Why are people anti union
>Vote against their interests
>Vote
This is why I'm antiunion, because like democracy it doesn't work. You will live to see a return to 1800s era unrestricted capitalism, despite record high union rates across the nation and still find a way to blame it on a bunch of people going "We warned you bro" instead of yourself for playing into the system.
I have never voted a day in my life because I'm aware it's all a puppet show for people.
>writers got a raise but not nearly enough to make up for the 5 months of work they missed out on
>writers got their room size demands
>writers got a compromise on AI tech. it will still be used but at the very least, it wont be stealing their jobs
And this is all for a 3yr contract. Who won? I don't know. The outcome is more of a wet fart but everyone is claiming to have "won".
The writers won. They got almost everything they were asking for. Their ability to get steady long term work improved compared to the mini writers room bs they had to deal with today, their work conditions improved, their pension funding got better, they actually get to see streaming numbers and get residuals based on those numbers now, there’s limits to what AI can be used and how, etc. etc. etc.
>they actually get to see streaming numbers
This one is news to me and sounds good because one of the problems with streaming was their lack on transparency, they could make an unwatchable piece of crap and they could lie that it was a success to the public and the investors. But does it mean much when they do the usual and just cut the show off the platforms because it gets no views?
The writers see the numbers, but the public doesn't
>writers got their room size demands
They did not. They wanted 6 writers minimum for 6 episodes, and 12 writers minimum for 18+ episodes. They got 3 for first season, 6 for season 2+, with an exemption for shows with one writer. Basically, this is nothing. Most shows already exceed those minimums, and producers who write count towards the minimum. All they've done is effectively ban two-writer shows.
WGA's best win is on AI while it's in its infancy, but we don't know where AI will be in 3 years. Everything else is a wash.
Oh, then they really are exaggerating the "win" to save face. The increase of writers with each new season just makes it less likely for series to get renewed now when you have to factor that you'll need double the writers just to continue it. Oh well, with the pace tha technology is evolving at, in 3 years AI will likely be capable enough to do these jobs without a hitch and Hollywood wont hesitate to pay a few software engineers to use a computer for a decent salary than pay a team of fraud writers
>Oh, then they really are exaggerating the "win" to save face.
I don't blame them. This is part saving face, but primarily this spin is for their own members. They still need everyone to vote and ratify this. The strike isn't technically over yet, only the picketing is.
The WGA did get solid benefit increases, it's only a wash because of how long this strike lasted. They did get good concessions on AI, although it's at a time when it's easy to get those concessions because AI isn't ready for prime time yet.
Those other things are fine, but we're talking about the writers room minimum specifically. On that front, for all practical purposes, they got nothing. "Shows must have at least 3 writers, or only one writer." That's what you got. What the hell is that. It's nothing.
So they have to pretend that a temporary raise and benefits for a 3 year contract will make up for picketing for almost half a year and they also get so keep their "lesser" writer friends employed with the room minimum...hurray?
There also something funny about a lot if these writers being so pompous, thinking themselves like A-list actors yet already getting terrified by AI in it infancy that can barely string a few paragraphs together. As if they thought that only peasants could get their jobs replaced by machines
Why don’t you just go look up all the demand that were made and what they actually got instead of being a smug idiot who clearly understands nothing about the contracts and what they mean.
>What the hell is that. It's nothing.
No? Those are there deliberately to protect writers rooms. It ensures that writers won’t be asked to do the job of multiple people with no compensation, and there will always be a set minimum of people to cover the workload and it’s written into the contract so that they can’t just cut number of writers to couple of people, which is literally what the studios were hoping with AI in the horizon so that all they would need to do is get 1-2 writers to come in for a week or three to polish the AI scripts a little. The minimums also ensure that they keep writers around for full production time, which along with allowing them on set means they can once again rely on writers getting in-job experience throughout the entire production process, something had basically starting to not be a thing as streaming made scripts be written in advance in mini rooms and they wouldn’t keep writers around afterwards for rewrites.
>so that they can’t just cut number of writers to couple of people
You don't get it. They're not going to have to cut writers rooms down. They'll simply make more single writer-producer driven shows.
Yeah I’m sure there’s tons of writers just dying to do all the writing themselves, especially longer shows. Just because it works for some people doesn’t mean there’s tons of people dying to do it.
>Just because it works for some people doesn’t mean there’s tons of people dying to do it.
Incidentally, the networks are greenlighting fewer shows, so they don't need a ton of people.
This isn't me taking jabs at the WGA. This is reality going forward. The majors are all cutting budgets and making fewer shows. This isn't me making predictions, this is the likes of Disney explicitly saying they're reducing projects and budgets on their last shareholder call. No amount of positive spin and denial is going to change that.
And? They were already cutting programming. The new contract still makes many important improvements for writers.
>The new contract still makes many important improvements for writers.
Which is the gist of what I said.
They got solid benefits and good concessions on AI. But they did not win on the matter of writers rooms minimums. I repeat, all they effectively did was ban 2-writer shows.
It's kind of ironic that the poor quality of writing theyve been producing has resulted in poor ratings and the overall products making much less money yet they still demand more for their unsustainable work. It takes a lot for me to side with the shitty corporations but these guys are making me almost feel sorry for those buttholes. I dont know any other type of work that could pull that off and not just get fired.
All distribution has been winnowed down to a few major companies and as a result there's a weaker market for "sellers" of entertainment. Like if you put a show on Netflix, you're not really put on your own company channel, you just get lumped in algorithmically and if you don't do big numbers with the general demo, you don't get promoted any further.
Algorithms have made everything into Spongebob syndrome. If it doesn't do Spongebob numbers in the system, they just don't care. Which means it doesn't make sense to invest in new shows at all because only one show is going to get any promotion, and that's Spongebob.
The FTC will just tolerate the monopolies because "the consumers don't seem to know the difference", which has been the legal gold standard to permit a monopoly since the 70's.
They were never going to get everything but they definitely got the minimum of what they were requiring.
Shhhhh, anon, they don’t understand anything about bargaining nor do they care. It’s all about wanting to believe the writers lost.
>he says that when the writers literally got the same deal from august
But they didn’t
Read the Deadline PDF
They got streaming residuals as well which is a big deal it's what the strike was really about.
>Basically, this is nothing.
Except it’s not because that is the starting point going forward and they were able to get wins on many venues related to minimum writers, like guaranteed time of work so that writers can’t be just hired for couple of days and then they’re suddenly out of a job again. Or how studios can’t just arbitrarily cut writers down to nothing.
The problem is that the writers are incompetent propagandists that disrespect the source material and the audience, so they don't deserve money
It's tiring seeing media being made by activist pretending to be writers. Their belief that sending a message is more important than being entertaining has ruined so many shows. Even normies are tired of this but the writers keep keep doing it out of hubris
It's funny that AI is still in its infancy and can still produce better material than most of these hacks. No wonder they're so scared of the future when AI improves to the point where it can do a full writting room's month of work within seconds.
What's wrong about 3 writers? It seems like a logical number. You have a variety of view points without making things too messy with too many people.
Not enough jobs, see above, the WGA doesn't give a frick about about quality as paradoxical as the thought is, probably thanks to Blackrock funding, but they basically just want more jobs secured, even prior to this writers have been entitled enough to openly act bratty through their work so really no real change will come of this, same shit as it ever was.
Why the frick would an union have any opinion about “quality” of work their members produce for pay, you dumb motherfricker?
>writer make awful unwatchable tripe
>company suffers financially because of it
>demands company to give you a raise, a dozen personal assistants to help your writing process, and a blowjob
>company finances are at an all time low because of you and they cant pull money out of their asses. So theyll meet your demands but make much less content than ever before
I dont know what to say. Does everybody win or loses. The consumer will still get the same shit quality of content but I guess the companies wont be machine gunning you with it now
>IT’S ALL THE WRITER’S FAULT!!!
I seriously have given up believing human being have any kind of real intelligence
>human being
Worlds smartest esl union shill
3 is fine but WGA demands 6 to a dozen+ depending on the show. Theres far too many cooks in the kitchen at that point and many of those "writers" will just be superfluous to the actual production and just be seat warmers getting their hours in.
How is 6 too many when you’re writing 13-22 episodes? Why do people like you insist that they know more than actual writers working in writers rooms?
>Le too many cooks! You only need one writer for a book!
How about you sit down and write and then rewrite 26 complete hour long drama scripts. Let’s see how quickly and well do you.
Pfft. A mere 1,400 pages of script with a company constantly breathing down my neck and a set manager telling me there's no budget for a flying fortress? I'll have it in by Monday.
My first episode is "AAAAAAAAA" and it's just everyone screaming for an hour.
>Why do people like you insist that they know more than actual writers working in writers rooms?
Because their shows have been shit for the past decade
>I’m just angry that I can’t enjoy anything anymore!
There’s therapy for that
>How is 6 too many when you’re writing 13-22 episodes?
This is exactly why the WGA did not win on writer minimums. The kind of shows that run over 22 episodes a season are sitcoms and soaps. Those kinds of shows already have more than 6 writers. The mandate is meaningless.
The WGA was pushing for 12.
It’s not meaningless. Once they have it in a contract they will fight to raise those numbers in future negotiations. This is how you protect your writers as studios want to get rid of writers all together and just do AI
NTA but the elephant in the room is the cost of living is going up and talented people will leave the industry for better qualities of life if they can't get financially ahead (substantial raises) so studios HAVE to pay much more or their skilled staff will move somewhere else. The only people who remain will be the Mid-teir and burn out