Is there a cut that doesn't show Harmonica get up after getting shot? On a recent rewatch I thought the reveal of him in the tavern would have been more impactful if the audience doesn't know he gets up after getting shot.
>in 1968 this scene would be hated by the right and loved by the left >in 2023 this scene would be hated by the left and loved by the right
What happened?
>Morton once told me I could never be like him. Now I understand why. Wouldn't have bothered him, knowing you were around somewhere alive. >>So, you found out you're not a businessman after all. >Just a man. >>An ancient race. Other Mortons will be along, and they'll kill it off. >The future don't matter to us. Nothing matters now - not the land, not the money, not the woman. I came here to see you. 'Cause I know that now, you'll tell me what you're after. >>Only at the point of dying. >I know.
An important thing the video doesn't mention is that the movie is also about the Marxist interpretation of fascism as "capitalism in decay", which then got out of control and caused WW2, similarly to how Frank turns against Morton
An important thing the video doesn't mention is that the movie is also about the Marxist interpretation of fascism as "capitalism in decay", which then got out of control and caused WW2, similarly to how Frank turns against Morton
An important thing the video doesn't mention is that the movie is also about the Marxist interpretation of fascism as "capitalism in decay", which then got out of control and caused WW2, similarly to how Frank turns against Morton
>anything that isn't blatantly pro-america or pro-capitalist is automatically commie
I love it but it's simply a product of the "radical sixties" and this has to be understood. Of course its politics are tame for today's standards but it represented a subversion of classic western themes
I love it but it's simply a product of the "radical sixties" and this has to be understood. Of course its politics are tame for today's standards but it represented a subversion of classic western themes
I love the spaghetti western movies for what they personally represent to me, namely the romanticism and freedom of the mythical West, and of movie magic I felt when first seeing these films as a teen. Of course later on when you read up about Leone and his politics some of the magic is lost, but the films are still highly engaging, original and impactful as art. Morricone's music is untouchable
I'm struck by how subtle this is, compared to what comes out nowadays where they look into the camera and say >WHITE MAN BAD >BLACK QUEER TRANSFOLK GOOD >ALL HAIL COMMUNISM
An important thing the video doesn't mention is that the movie is also about the Marxist interpretation of fascism as "capitalism in decay", which then got out of control and caused WW2, similarly to how Frank turns against Morton
>Stop shilling your shitty videos built on fake narratives
How is it a fake narrative when Leone himself verbatim says it in the book "Conversations avec Sergio Leone"
The author of the video is alt-right but leftists have the same analysis of the film, see
Leone was a commie and OUATITW is Marxist, this is actually the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film. The copers itt have no argument, they're just upset someone pointed out a movie they like is Marxist
https://www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/arts/films/item/2330-once-upon-a-time-this-west-was-full-of-radicals-sergio-leone-revolution-and-religion
9 months ago
Anonymous
>morons are being moronic, no matter the side
Weird how that works
>Btw one of the screenwriters (Bertolucci) was an open Marxist, the others were left-adjacent
9 months ago
Anonymous
How does that reveal anon is alt-right?
9 months ago
Anonymous
Because he's complaining about people are more liberal than him. A terminally online autist complaining about leftism is alt-right
9 months ago
Anonymous
Do you know what alt-right means? And complaining about people with opposite political views is definitely not exclusive to the extremes of either side
9 months ago
Anonymous
Alt-right is media speak for pollacks
9 months ago
Anonymous
What's this about Pollacks now?
9 months ago
Anonymous
people who spend too much time on pol and infect the other boards with their identity politics.
9 months ago
Anonymous
/pol/lacks
9 months ago
Anonymous
that's right, i figured people would know what I'm talking about without the slashes
9 months ago
Anonymous
It's bad form, anon
9 months ago
Anonymous
my mistake
9 months ago
Anonymous
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Bertolucci >Bertolucci's films are often very political. He was a professed Marxist and, like Luchino Visconti, who similarly employed many foreign artists during the late 1960s, Bertolucci used his films to express his political views.
9 months ago
Anonymous
and what does "left-adjacent" mean? Pollacks are alt-right, pretty much the definition of alt-right.
Leone was a commie and OUATITW is Marxist, this is actually the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film. The copers itt have no argument, they're just upset someone pointed out a movie they like is Marxist
https://www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/arts/films/item/2330-once-upon-a-time-this-west-was-full-of-radicals-sergio-leone-revolution-and-religion
>this is actually the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film
If it was the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film you wouldn't have to say "actually"
Not my fault anons on Cinemaphile are moronic and media-illiterate. Everywhere where people actually care to analyze films' themes, it's accepted to be a Marxist film
>the universities that fill the minds of the middling-IQ masses with marxist bullshit analyzed the themes of the movie >and concluded it's marxist
wow!
really??????
that sounds like a very honest analysis!!! not biased at all!
Leone: I AM A MARXIST
/tv/tard: woah, this seems like a based apolitical film
Bertolucci: I'M LITERALLY A COMMUNIST ACTIVIST
/tv/tard: sounds like this guy makes a lot of apolitical kino to trigger both chuds and wokes! Based!
Me: The movie is Marxist
/tv/tard: No!!! You're trying to divide us poltard!!
you can pull out all the tricks out want homosexual, I know your kind
9 months ago
Anonymous
You don't know shit. I can only imagine what sort of assumptions you've made about me, because I'm not the anon that made the original post. He clearly holds it against the movie, but in no way did he imply that he didn't still enjoy it. He literally called it top tier. Let's see what other "tricks" you'll pull out in order to ignore the words you're reading
9 months ago
Anonymous
what even is your point here
9 months ago
Anonymous
My point is that it's a dishonest to pretend like he doesn't enjoy the movie, since his post implies the exact opposite. That's my only objection
9 months ago
Anonymous
I never said you don't enjoy the movie. I'm saying you trying to get others to not enjoy it.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I'm still not the original anon. If he's trying to get others to stop enjoying it, why does he call it top tier?
9 months ago
Anonymous
Ok I'll humor you and explain your psychopath tactic. Not to convince you, mind you, just to help fellow anons not fall into your bs
You take X (X being something people like) and claim it's Y (Y being a political stance people don't like).
Then you say you're Y and like X.
The reaction you're looking for is that people, who hate Y, will now also hate X.
It's very basic manipulation
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Ok I'll humor you and explain your psychopath tactic.
Instead of me, you've invented a character in your head to reply to >You take X (X being something people like) and claim it's Y (Y being a political stance people don't like). >Then you say you're Y and like X. >The reaction you're looking for is that people, who hate Y, will now also hate X.
You wouldn't need to exclaim that you like X to get people who already hate Y to also hate X. The logic would say that people who hate Y will hate X automatically, as long as X turns out to be Y. It's completely counter to what the goal would be
Found the script for the 6 hour version of Once Upon a Time in America, oh what the kino we could've had
https://assets.scriptslug.com/live/pdf/scripts/once-upon-a-time-in-america-1984.pdf
It was made and edited, but Leone was forced to edit it down. There might just be a copy of it somewhere, you can see parts where things were supposed to go on, like when you see Joe Pesci at the hospital for no reason.
This gay politics obsession is so tiresome. There was a time I was very worldly aware and well read on the latest politics in high school, now I wish everyone would just shut the frick up for once.
Exactly, and when I bring up the fact that the politics bullshit is ruining the site, /misc/lacks come out of the woodwork to defend their brethren.
>Exactly, and when I bring up the fact that the politics bullshit is ruining the site, /misc/lacks come out of the woodwork to defend their brethren.
You're just sustaining the problem. The issue is that people engage with political posts at all. I'm guilty of it, myself. Even now, you and I are contributing to off-topic discussion and perpetuating the cycle
It starts somewhere and then others keep perpetuating it. Only one person commented on the screenplay of Once Upon a Time in America I shared. But there's always people to say >Cope
No one's forcing you to read it
[...]
Cope
Because the copers refuse to recognize the film's politics
. Why do we have to "recognize the film's politics" in the first place? Why can't we just talk about all the incredible near operatic moments?
Because anons engage in posts that are about politics. A board will never be free of politics as long as it keeps discussing it
9 months ago
Anonymous
It wasn't always this bad man. The /misc/lacks go searching for ways to bring up their politics. You never leftists complaining in Clint Eastwood or Mel Gibson threads about his politics.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jun-18-et-west18-story.html >Leone, israeliteell says, offers a Marxist rewriting of U.S. history with the film. “He knows it’s a fable. That’s why he called it ‘Once Upon a Time in the West.’ Yet it is a fable of how the West might have evolved if it had evolved along Marxist lines instead of capitalistic lines.”
Uh oh... Coper bros...
Imagine being so buck broken upon finding out a film you enjoyed is communist. Lol it's okay dude, commies did make some kinos, have you seen Eisenstein and Vertov?
Look, I'm no academic, but my understanding is that for something to be marxist it has to put forward a workers revolution/class consciousness message which... I don't really see at all in this film or any other of Leone's. They are every one about violent men in a violent world and there's little room for anything else other than the goal of these violent individuals, which is money for the dollars trilogy and revenge for Once Upon a Time in the West. You could say that because the world these men inhabit is a brutal one where the people in charge are cold and uncaring towards the plebs it then puts forward a marxist perspective, but I really don't think marxism has a monopoly on criticising the institutions of the world or the systems of power that are in place. At best, you could argue a marxism thing for "Duck, You Sucker!" but that itself is a depiction of a more nationalist revolution, not a commie workers rise up one. And, once again, just because something features revolutions and anti-imperialism (The irish parts of the film, and the german presence), it does not automatically make it commie. Opposing or criticising nominally western institutions/systems/whatever is not automatically marxism and I wish that fricking concept would die.
For all the time you spent writing that you could've watched the video
https://youtu.be/d4wjQT2hkbA
or read the essay
Leone was a commie and OUATITW is Marxist, this is actually the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film. The copers itt have no argument, they're just upset someone pointed out a movie they like is Marxist
https://www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/arts/films/item/2330-once-upon-a-time-this-west-was-full-of-radicals-sergio-leone-revolution-and-religion
I did watch the video, it was utter pseudery. If you're making propaganda, the message has to be obvious and easily digestible, not something that can only be understood by left-leaning film students. All the films of Leone are, above all else, depictions of violence and brutality, set in an environment that has little to no rules, and they speak to simple emotions like heroism or struggle or loss. Arguing that they're crypto marxism doesn't work so well because marxism can't be fricking crypto by design.
The video's analysis is airtight and your post offers no concrete rebuttal or counter-argument. Nobody itt offered a counter-analysis and my favorite moronic post is this
>the universities that fill the minds of the middling-IQ masses with marxist bullshit analyzed the themes of the movie >and concluded it's marxist
wow!
really??????
that sounds like a very honest analysis!!! not biased at all!
where the guy assumes critics call it a Marxist movie because they themselves are Marxist. Okay but they might as well call it a RW reactionary movie or a "not sufficiently leftist" movie or whatever, it doesn't prove anything
>make a post saying the movie is marxist
vs >make two thousand posts saying the movie is marxist
there's a difference
you can act all innocent all you want but it's very clear you're dishonest
Okay, frick you. It's moronic but I'm bored so I'll write out a fricking refutation.
I won't go through the entire 17 minutes, but lets look at a some small points made at the beginning. >In an allegory for America's colonial trajectory, Morton explains how he began his project in sight of the Atlantic and wishes to reach the pacific before he dies.
IT'S NOT A FRICKING ALLEGORY. Him going from the Atlantic to the Pacific IS American colonialism, that was the entire point. Scratch one right off the bat. >Blah blah, Morton's tuberculosis is a metaphor for The West dying but also Western growth is a spreading disease
Extremely fricking moronic. Ignoring the undermining yourself in the same sentence, it also isn't a fricking metaphor, it's an extremely simple and blatant fricking irony that he's accomplishing this all only to die before he can see it through. This isn't fricking marxism or anti-imperialism, it's good fricking character writing making you empathise with the guy because he has a dream and he's unable to see it through. He's a bad guy but he's got motivation and a tragic fricking backstory that makes you feel for him. You don't fricking make the audience empathise with the fricking embodiment of capitalism if you're a goddamn fricking marxist, good Christ.
That's it, I'm not bothered to write up any more. Frick you anon, you're a fricking idiot.
>IT'S NOT A FRICKING ALLEGORY. Him going from the Atlantic to the Pacific IS American colonialism, that was the entire point. Scratch one right off the bat.
Yes it's an allegory because irl colonialism wasn't done by one single person. This point is also irrelevant because even if it were a 1:1 representation of historical reality it wouldn't change the message of the movie.
The rest of your post is also dumb. It's not a contradiction because it equals Western colonialism to cancer, there's nothing contradictory about that. And yes it's competent character writing AND politically influenced, one doesn't exclude the other. You're moronic. The audience does feel some sympathy for him but he's still a bad guy all things considered, he's just not a cartoonishly evil comic book villain
>He's a bad guy but he's got motivation and a tragic fricking backstory that makes you feel for him. You don't fricking make the audience empathise with the fricking embodiment of capitalism if you're a goddamn fricking marxist, good Christ.
But Leone was a literal Marxist, lol. Argento and Bertolucci were members of the Italian Communist Party. As for Sergio Donati, I couldn't find much biographical info on him, but he wrote scripts for other Marxists like Sollima, so I described him as "left-adjacent" earlier ITT. So the movie was written by three Marxists and one fellow traveller.
And Morton is still a bad guy, even if he's not cartoonishly demonized. Also him being disabled is the ENTIRE POINT because the movie is about the slow death of Western imperialism
As an example, let us look at the works of Eisenstein. Ignoring him running afoul of Stalin during Ivan the Terrible, his films are all blatant propaganda, but, well-crafted works which stand the test of time. You can't get more a more marxist film than one of Eisenstein's, because he fricking invented them. The message in all of these films is obvious, as blatant as it possibly can be, because the purpose was to spread the pro-workers, anti-capital message of the Soviet Union, both to its citizens and people abroad. You can't hide the marxism because most moviegoers are simple people who need to be slapped in the face with the message to understand it; that is the purpose of the propagandising filmmaker, especially the marxist one where the whole fricking point is to spread the message to the fricking people. Battleship Potemkin is a propagandising of how the Tsars brutally put down a mini workers revolution and how they'll keep on doing it, Alexander Nevsky is anti-German propaganda because frick the nazis (until we sign a treaty with them). The argument that a thing is marxism only works when it is explicitly, not implicitly, marxist or whatever because otherwise it defeats the entire purpose of propaganda and marxism.
>Look, I'm no academic, but my understanding is that for something to be marxist it has to put forward a workers revolution/class consciousness message which... I don't really see at all in this film or any other of Leone's.
Read up on Marxist strategies in the 60s, a lot of which were Third-Worldism which Leone's work suggests.
Of course in the US at the same time Marcuse and his heirs developed intersectionality (or "cultural Marxism") which is somewhat similar
Copers should read this
https://www.metamute.org/editorial/articles/spaghetti-communism
Basically spaghetti westerns were communist and this is even more obvious when you look at more radical directors like Sollima. Hilariously the genre is now "RW-coded" because it's unabashedly masculine
i tell this to people all the time and they stare at me blankly. the 90s revisionist westerns are all especially bad. dances with wolves, unforgiven, the quick and the dead, etc. nothing but "america bad, capitalism bad, manifest destiny bad". the reaganite boomercons have no idea just how completely they've been captured
>dances with wolves, unforgiven, the quick and the dead, etc. nothing but "america bad, capitalism bad, manifest destiny bad"
They didn't make me think that. That's what you took from those movies?
Hell, you took anything from The Quick and the Dead?
This gay politics obsession is so tiresome. There was a time I was very worldly aware and well read on the latest politics in high school, now I wish everyone would just shut the frick up for once.
It was made and edited, but Leone was forced to edit it down. There might just be a copy of it somewhere, you can see parts where things were supposed to go on, like when you see Joe Pesci at the hospital for no reason.
[...]
Exactly, and when I bring up the fact that the politics bullshit is ruining the site, /misc/lacks come out of the woodwork to defend their brethren.
>Frank's nervous walk contrasted to Harmonica's calm pace >his shifty and afraid eyes stare out >harmonica just stares straight through him, like he barely sees him, he know what's going to happen, because he has dreamed of it for decades.
It's like harmonica is a character playing out a role that he himself envisioned.
It's also worth nothing Frank's gun barrel is much longer than Harmonicas, which made his draw time longer. Not sure if there's any deeper meaning to that but he certainly fricked up bringing it to a duel.
>thread about a great film >state sponsored glowie homosexual comes into thread, says director was a Marxist >thread instantly derailed, discussion about something that people enjoy, admire, and respect ceases >shitposting ensues
I hate glowies so much, let us talk about a great film in peace please.
To me this movie is primarily about the death of the wild west and the time of the outlaws, as shown by the coming of the railroad and building of the town at the end. If you have to put a political angle on it you can say it's about businessmen and politicians replacing the bandits, making their crimes look small time in comparison
>To me this movie is primarily about the death of the wild west and the time of the outlaws, as shown by the coming of the railroad and building of the town at the end.
Nobody's disputing this > If you have to put a political angle on it you can say it's about businessmen and politicians replacing the bandits, making their crimes look small time in comparison
Nope, because the capitalist/imperialist also bites the dust. The closing shot sums it up, it's about the "nouveau riche" (feminine multiethnic entrepreneurship) replacing the joint forces of white male capital and violence (Morton and Frank) that built the West
Do you realize how fricking gay you sound? Given the circumstances that we see in the film, Harmonica was in the right. You're like the meme of the guy getting his bike stolen but is okay with it because maybe the guy that stole it needed it more.
Maybe every movie you saw. Not in Rider on The Rain, Cold Sweat, Farewell Friend, Hard Times, Breakheart Pass, Breakout, From Noon Til Three.
But he was in Chanto's Land, Death Hunt, Death Wish, Mr. Majestyk, 10 to Midnight, Violent City, The White Buffalo, Chino, Messenger of Death, The Evil That Men Do.
Not one single flaw
Should be taught at classes in film school with scene by scene review of its several aspects, highlighting blocking, framing, actors marks, music, light and how the plot advances with no hurry or excess
Hard Times was fun, I forgot about that one. He did like five death wish movies for Cannon which is what he's mostly known for now
I have about 32 Bronson movies and have never seen anything passed the first Death Wish. Maybe I'll watch 2 because Michael Winner directed it like the first, and about 4 other Bronson movies.
The Mechanic is really good, better than Death Wish imo. Has that lonesome hitman existential feel to it similar to The Driver, but also has a bunch of good action scenes
It's an awesome movie, I loved the silent opening of him setting up the hit. The Stone Killer is a good one too, felt a bit like a Clint Eastwood movie.
Very different but a very good movie. Don't expect a stylish gunslinger western. Pay attention to the story and characters and enjoy the setting itself.
It's one of Martin Scorsese's favorite movies. I just wish he'd use his connections to get it restored and released on 4K already like he did for The Red Shoes.
>The Searchers is a much more mature film at the very least.
No it's not. It's Ford's attempt at coping with the civil rights movement that ends up being a bit confused
>You've been watching too many of
Every time a normie starts a sentence with this phrase you know it's gonna be the most normgroid shit you've ever read
Something odd I noticed, Sam Elliot isn't listed as being in Breakheart Pass with Bronson in 1975. He gets shot in the head and has maybe two lines in it.
The age difference of the actors is kinda weird.
In the harmonica scene Bronson's young character looks like in his early teens, while Honda look like 40. Then later they both look the same age.
I'm sure Frank in the flashback was in his late 20's early 30's while Harmonica was a late teen. So Harmonica being 45 and Frank being nearly 60 makes sense.
ngl. only homosexuals hate this film. 10/10
most based thing i've read all week thanks anon
The Kinoest of them all
how do i respond without sounding mad?
>"Looks like we're one horse too shy"
>"For you."
2, 2, men, eh?
Is there a cut that doesn't show Harmonica get up after getting shot? On a recent rewatch I thought the reveal of him in the tavern would have been more impactful if the audience doesn't know he gets up after getting shot.
>original plan was have three main characters from the good, the bad and the ugly to be those three guys
that would have been cool
Cleef could work as Frank but he just doesn't have the smirking sardonic face that Fonda has.
They were meant to be those 3 characters waiting in the train station at the opening
uhhh no, we three are going to kill you and then we all have a horse to ride back into town on.
Best of all the Spaghetti Westerns. Henry Fonda’s intro was flawless.
>inb4 boring in the middle
>Let the guys slap your ass. They've earned it.
I’ve never had a crush on an actress until I watched this movie
This scene is VERY problematic
The only problem is I'm not there to give it a slap myself
>in 1968 this scene would be hated by the right and loved by the left
>in 2023 this scene would be hated by the left and loved by the right
What happened?
The israelites won
Libtards are mentally ill and hate their dads and now they run all institutions
Mmm, marxist *and* misogynistic
the greatest western film
it was downhill from here
>You brought Tootoo Meney.
What was the point of naming the horse if they weren't gooing to use it later?
This scene was absolute kino
Beautiful
>Keep your loving brother happy.
I love how pleasant and cordial he sounds saying it only to do the most sadistic thing ever lol.
>Just a Man
kino reveal
Yeah. But I prefer winter bleakness.
underrated great soundtrack too
Featuring Klaus Kinski as Himself
>great silence
Can't be Klaus Kinski
lel
>Morton once told me I could never be like him. Now I understand why. Wouldn't have bothered him, knowing you were around somewhere alive.
>>So, you found out you're not a businessman after all.
>Just a man.
>>An ancient race. Other Mortons will be along, and they'll kill it off.
>The future don't matter to us. Nothing matters now - not the land, not the money, not the woman. I came here to see you. 'Cause I know that now, you'll tell me what you're after.
>>Only at the point of dying.
>I know.
>Scenes you can hear
It's a Marxist film but the craft is top tier. Marxism would've completely won had leftists not become suddenly moronic in the 2010s
How is it Marxist?
An important thing the video doesn't mention is that the movie is also about the Marxist interpretation of fascism as "capitalism in decay", which then got out of control and caused WW2, similarly to how Frank turns against Morton
Just enjoy the movie you fricking pseuds
>nooooo don't think nooo please shut your brain off because for some reason it scares me when you analyze movies
>anything that isn't blatantly pro-america or pro-capitalist is automatically commie
It's pro-America in a sense. And yes it's literally commie, what's the issue?
Alright I hate the film now.
lmao now he's falseflagging too
Take your meds, moron.
I love it but it's simply a product of the "radical sixties" and this has to be understood. Of course its politics are tame for today's standards but it represented a subversion of classic western themes
I love the spaghetti western movies for what they personally represent to me, namely the romanticism and freedom of the mythical West, and of movie magic I felt when first seeing these films as a teen. Of course later on when you read up about Leone and his politics some of the magic is lost, but the films are still highly engaging, original and impactful as art. Morricone's music is untouchable
Trying to promote your israelitetube channel eh?
I'm struck by how subtle this is, compared to what comes out nowadays where they look into the camera and say
>WHITE MAN BAD
>BLACK QUEER TRANSFOLK GOOD
>ALL HAIL COMMUNISM
So you have no argument. Btw one of the screenwriters (Bertolucci) was an open Marxist, the others were left-adjacent
what argument do i need when you're a schizo who spent too much time on pol? Stop shilling your shitty videos built on fake narratives
>Stop shilling your shitty videos built on fake narratives
How is it a fake narrative when Leone himself verbatim says it in the book "Conversations avec Sergio Leone"
My argument is that you're a gay moron and that the movie fricking rocks
It's a great movie but it's still Marxist
Nonsensical post, take meds etc.
>Btw one of the screenwriters (Bertolucci) was an open Marxist, the others were left-adjacent
>left-adjacent
Another alt-right autist turning into the same kind of paranoid definition based US vs THEM kind of person they criticize/mock on the left, lmao.
What makes him alt-right?
The author of the video is alt-right but leftists have the same analysis of the film, see
>morons are being moronic, no matter the side
Weird how that works
>Btw one of the screenwriters (Bertolucci) was an open Marxist, the others were left-adjacent
How does that reveal anon is alt-right?
Because he's complaining about people are more liberal than him. A terminally online autist complaining about leftism is alt-right
Do you know what alt-right means? And complaining about people with opposite political views is definitely not exclusive to the extremes of either side
Alt-right is media speak for pollacks
What's this about Pollacks now?
people who spend too much time on pol and infect the other boards with their identity politics.
/pol/lacks
that's right, i figured people would know what I'm talking about without the slashes
It's bad form, anon
my mistake
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_Bertolucci
>Bertolucci's films are often very political. He was a professed Marxist and, like Luchino Visconti, who similarly employed many foreign artists during the late 1960s, Bertolucci used his films to express his political views.
and what does "left-adjacent" mean? Pollacks are alt-right, pretty much the definition of alt-right.
Get help
Apolitical gays are mentally ill. I get not caring about politics but this desperate attempt to keep people from talking about it is just weird
Ok Boomer
Ok moron
You sure got me
It really is.
how do you respond without sounding mad? (as the kid of course)
Stop forcing this shitty normgroid meme
Cringe
what a beauty she was
Leone was a commie and OUATITW is Marxist, this is actually the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film. The copers itt have no argument, they're just upset someone pointed out a movie they like is Marxist
https://www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/arts/films/item/2330-once-upon-a-time-this-west-was-full-of-radicals-sergio-leone-revolution-and-religion
>this is actually the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film
If it was the mainstream, well-accepted reading of the film you wouldn't have to say "actually"
Not my fault anons on Cinemaphile are moronic and media-illiterate. Everywhere where people actually care to analyze films' themes, it's accepted to be a Marxist film
>the universities that fill the minds of the middling-IQ masses with marxist bullshit analyzed the themes of the movie
>and concluded it's marxist
wow!
really??????
that sounds like a very honest analysis!!! not biased at all!
Leone: I AM A MARXIST
/tv/tard: woah, this seems like a based apolitical film
Bertolucci: I'M LITERALLY A COMMUNIST ACTIVIST
/tv/tard: sounds like this guy makes a lot of apolitical kino to trigger both chuds and wokes! Based!
Me: The movie is Marxist
/tv/tard: No!!! You're trying to divide us poltard!!
refer to
>N-NOOO YOU... YOU HAVE TO HATE THE MOVIE NOW!!! SEE?? IT'S OF THE OPPOSING POLITICS
>NOOONONONO WHY ARE YOU STILL HAVING FUN NOOOO
stay seething leftypol
see just don't think about it, we were all enjoying the movie until this prick
came along and now everyone's arguing over dead people's politics that doesn't matter.
>NOOO STOP ENJOYING THINGS STOP BEING HAPPY PLEASE AHHHHH IT HURTTTTSS
lmao, psychopaths are such sad creatures
I don't think he actually stated ITT that the film was unenjoyable because of Marxism. He praised it in the very same post
>now he plays dumb
certified psycho
>call a movie top tier craft
>this means you don't enjoy it
you can pull out all the tricks out want homosexual, I know your kind
You don't know shit. I can only imagine what sort of assumptions you've made about me, because I'm not the anon that made the original post. He clearly holds it against the movie, but in no way did he imply that he didn't still enjoy it. He literally called it top tier. Let's see what other "tricks" you'll pull out in order to ignore the words you're reading
what even is your point here
My point is that it's a dishonest to pretend like he doesn't enjoy the movie, since his post implies the exact opposite. That's my only objection
I never said you don't enjoy the movie. I'm saying you trying to get others to not enjoy it.
I'm still not the original anon. If he's trying to get others to stop enjoying it, why does he call it top tier?
Ok I'll humor you and explain your psychopath tactic. Not to convince you, mind you, just to help fellow anons not fall into your bs
You take X (X being something people like) and claim it's Y (Y being a political stance people don't like).
Then you say you're Y and like X.
The reaction you're looking for is that people, who hate Y, will now also hate X.
It's very basic manipulation
>Ok I'll humor you and explain your psychopath tactic.
Instead of me, you've invented a character in your head to reply to
>You take X (X being something people like) and claim it's Y (Y being a political stance people don't like).
>Then you say you're Y and like X.
>The reaction you're looking for is that people, who hate Y, will now also hate X.
You wouldn't need to exclaim that you like X to get people who already hate Y to also hate X. The logic would say that people who hate Y will hate X automatically, as long as X turns out to be Y. It's completely counter to what the goal would be
so what? its just a movie
>they're just upset someone pointed out a movie they like is Marxist
No, they're upset that you think this is some kind of a fricking own.
It's like those stupid fricking facebook tier memes that are like
>like this work of art?
>well you just enjoyed a painting by HITLER
>No, they're upset that you think this is some kind of a fricking own.
It's not an own, but you shouldn't consume art passively and uncritically
Found the script for the 6 hour version of Once Upon a Time in America, oh what the kino we could've had
https://assets.scriptslug.com/live/pdf/scripts/once-upon-a-time-in-america-1984.pdf
That sounds glorious. Has there ever been a six hour movie made before?
It was made and edited, but Leone was forced to edit it down. There might just be a copy of it somewhere, you can see parts where things were supposed to go on, like when you see Joe Pesci at the hospital for no reason.
Exactly, and when I bring up the fact that the politics bullshit is ruining the site, /misc/lacks come out of the woodwork to defend their brethren.
>Exactly, and when I bring up the fact that the politics bullshit is ruining the site, /misc/lacks come out of the woodwork to defend their brethren.
You're just sustaining the problem. The issue is that people engage with political posts at all. I'm guilty of it, myself. Even now, you and I are contributing to off-topic discussion and perpetuating the cycle
It starts somewhere and then others keep perpetuating it. Only one person commented on the screenplay of Once Upon a Time in America I shared. But there's always people to say >Cope
. Why do we have to "recognize the film's politics" in the first place? Why can't we just talk about all the incredible near operatic moments?
Because anons engage in posts that are about politics. A board will never be free of politics as long as it keeps discussing it
It wasn't always this bad man. The /misc/lacks go searching for ways to bring up their politics. You never leftists complaining in Clint Eastwood or Mel Gibson threads about his politics.
Because talking just about the how and not the why gets boring
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jun-18-et-west18-story.html
>Leone, israeliteell says, offers a Marxist rewriting of U.S. history with the film. “He knows it’s a fable. That’s why he called it ‘Once Upon a Time in the West.’ Yet it is a fable of how the West might have evolved if it had evolved along Marxist lines instead of capitalistic lines.”
Uh oh... Coper bros...
>"thought you were a business man"
>nope
>just a man
Imagine being so buck broken upon finding out a film you enjoyed is communist. Lol it's okay dude, commies did make some kinos, have you seen Eisenstein and Vertov?
I don't understand. Anon said it was Marxist and top tier craft?
pol has infected the rest of this site and ruined a lot of the fun
could've done with less women
Look, I'm no academic, but my understanding is that for something to be marxist it has to put forward a workers revolution/class consciousness message which... I don't really see at all in this film or any other of Leone's. They are every one about violent men in a violent world and there's little room for anything else other than the goal of these violent individuals, which is money for the dollars trilogy and revenge for Once Upon a Time in the West. You could say that because the world these men inhabit is a brutal one where the people in charge are cold and uncaring towards the plebs it then puts forward a marxist perspective, but I really don't think marxism has a monopoly on criticising the institutions of the world or the systems of power that are in place. At best, you could argue a marxism thing for "Duck, You Sucker!" but that itself is a depiction of a more nationalist revolution, not a commie workers rise up one. And, once again, just because something features revolutions and anti-imperialism (The irish parts of the film, and the german presence), it does not automatically make it commie. Opposing or criticising nominally western institutions/systems/whatever is not automatically marxism and I wish that fricking concept would die.
For all the time you spent writing that you could've watched the video
or read the essay
I did watch the video, it was utter pseudery. If you're making propaganda, the message has to be obvious and easily digestible, not something that can only be understood by left-leaning film students. All the films of Leone are, above all else, depictions of violence and brutality, set in an environment that has little to no rules, and they speak to simple emotions like heroism or struggle or loss. Arguing that they're crypto marxism doesn't work so well because marxism can't be fricking crypto by design.
The video's analysis is airtight and your post offers no concrete rebuttal or counter-argument. Nobody itt offered a counter-analysis and my favorite moronic post is this
where the guy assumes critics call it a Marxist movie because they themselves are Marxist. Okay but they might as well call it a RW reactionary movie or a "not sufficiently leftist" movie or whatever, it doesn't prove anything
>make a post saying the movie is marxist
vs
>make two thousand posts saying the movie is marxist
there's a difference
you can act all innocent all you want but it's very clear you're dishonest
And you haven't refuted any of those posts lol
I dont care about politics and they're weak enough in the movie that I can enjoy it without caring
>N-NO YOU HAVE TO PARTICIPATE
make me, pussy
there's some autist on the board right now going into every thread and complaining about marxism, you're better off just ignoring him
Okay, frick you. It's moronic but I'm bored so I'll write out a fricking refutation.
I won't go through the entire 17 minutes, but lets look at a some small points made at the beginning.
>In an allegory for America's colonial trajectory, Morton explains how he began his project in sight of the Atlantic and wishes to reach the pacific before he dies.
IT'S NOT A FRICKING ALLEGORY. Him going from the Atlantic to the Pacific IS American colonialism, that was the entire point. Scratch one right off the bat.
>Blah blah, Morton's tuberculosis is a metaphor for The West dying but also Western growth is a spreading disease
Extremely fricking moronic. Ignoring the undermining yourself in the same sentence, it also isn't a fricking metaphor, it's an extremely simple and blatant fricking irony that he's accomplishing this all only to die before he can see it through. This isn't fricking marxism or anti-imperialism, it's good fricking character writing making you empathise with the guy because he has a dream and he's unable to see it through. He's a bad guy but he's got motivation and a tragic fricking backstory that makes you feel for him. You don't fricking make the audience empathise with the fricking embodiment of capitalism if you're a goddamn fricking marxist, good Christ.
That's it, I'm not bothered to write up any more. Frick you anon, you're a fricking idiot.
>IT'S NOT A FRICKING ALLEGORY. Him going from the Atlantic to the Pacific IS American colonialism, that was the entire point. Scratch one right off the bat.
Yes it's an allegory because irl colonialism wasn't done by one single person. This point is also irrelevant because even if it were a 1:1 representation of historical reality it wouldn't change the message of the movie.
The rest of your post is also dumb. It's not a contradiction because it equals Western colonialism to cancer, there's nothing contradictory about that. And yes it's competent character writing AND politically influenced, one doesn't exclude the other. You're moronic. The audience does feel some sympathy for him but he's still a bad guy all things considered, he's just not a cartoonishly evil comic book villain
>He's a bad guy but he's got motivation and a tragic fricking backstory that makes you feel for him. You don't fricking make the audience empathise with the fricking embodiment of capitalism if you're a goddamn fricking marxist, good Christ.
But Leone was a literal Marxist, lol. Argento and Bertolucci were members of the Italian Communist Party. As for Sergio Donati, I couldn't find much biographical info on him, but he wrote scripts for other Marxists like Sollima, so I described him as "left-adjacent" earlier ITT. So the movie was written by three Marxists and one fellow traveller.
And Morton is still a bad guy, even if he's not cartoonishly demonized. Also him being disabled is the ENTIRE POINT because the movie is about the slow death of Western imperialism
As an example, let us look at the works of Eisenstein. Ignoring him running afoul of Stalin during Ivan the Terrible, his films are all blatant propaganda, but, well-crafted works which stand the test of time. You can't get more a more marxist film than one of Eisenstein's, because he fricking invented them. The message in all of these films is obvious, as blatant as it possibly can be, because the purpose was to spread the pro-workers, anti-capital message of the Soviet Union, both to its citizens and people abroad. You can't hide the marxism because most moviegoers are simple people who need to be slapped in the face with the message to understand it; that is the purpose of the propagandising filmmaker, especially the marxist one where the whole fricking point is to spread the message to the fricking people. Battleship Potemkin is a propagandising of how the Tsars brutally put down a mini workers revolution and how they'll keep on doing it, Alexander Nevsky is anti-German propaganda because frick the nazis (until we sign a treaty with them). The argument that a thing is marxism only works when it is explicitly, not implicitly, marxist or whatever because otherwise it defeats the entire purpose of propaganda and marxism.
>Look, I'm no academic, but my understanding is that for something to be marxist it has to put forward a workers revolution/class consciousness message which... I don't really see at all in this film or any other of Leone's.
Read up on Marxist strategies in the 60s, a lot of which were Third-Worldism which Leone's work suggests.
Of course in the US at the same time Marcuse and his heirs developed intersectionality (or "cultural Marxism") which is somewhat similar
What a kino character.
Cheyenne was great
He was also very good in The Ballad of Cable Hogue
Such a great sequence
Copers should read this
https://www.metamute.org/editorial/articles/spaghetti-communism
Basically spaghetti westerns were communist and this is even more obvious when you look at more radical directors like Sollima. Hilariously the genre is now "RW-coded" because it's unabashedly masculine
All the great westerns post the 1950s are left winged
i tell this to people all the time and they stare at me blankly. the 90s revisionist westerns are all especially bad. dances with wolves, unforgiven, the quick and the dead, etc. nothing but "america bad, capitalism bad, manifest destiny bad". the reaganite boomercons have no idea just how completely they've been captured
>the quick and the dead
Shut your prostitute mouth, it was a good movie
Shut the frick up already
>dances with wolves, unforgiven, the quick and the dead, etc. nothing but "america bad, capitalism bad, manifest destiny bad"
They didn't make me think that. That's what you took from those movies?
Hell, you took anything from The Quick and the Dead?
Sorry to Clint Eastwood fans but this is hands down the best western ever made.
This gay politics obsession is so tiresome. There was a time I was very worldly aware and well read on the latest politics in high school, now I wish everyone would just shut the frick up for once.
No one's forcing you to read it
Cope
my case in point.
This, the homosexuals are ruining a perfectly comfy OUATITW thread
Because the copers refuse to recognize the film's politics
Okay it's Marxist. Now what?
Frick off
Ok, so why were you so butthurt by that?
Because you and the moronic homosexuals that reply to you are ruining the thread.
Now frick off.
We're in it together, then
So Cheyenne attacked Morton's train to get him and the rest of Frank's gang out of the picture for good, right?
>guitar kicks in just as harmonica walks into the shot
I cum my pants every time.
When that red head boy runs out of the door and the guitar riffs. I shed a tear every time.
That part is incredibly kino and yet every time I show this movie to someone nobody reacts to it
>Frank's nervous walk contrasted to Harmonica's calm pace
>his shifty and afraid eyes stare out
>harmonica just stares straight through him, like he barely sees him, he know what's going to happen, because he has dreamed of it for decades.
It's like harmonica is a character playing out a role that he himself envisioned.
Kino
It's also worth nothing Frank's gun barrel is much longer than Harmonicas, which made his draw time longer. Not sure if there's any deeper meaning to that but he certainly fricked up bringing it to a duel.
Get a bit teary eyed myself when Harmonica's past is revealed. Same when Mortimer stares down Indio in Few dollars more.
>thread about a great film
>state sponsored glowie homosexual comes into thread, says director was a Marxist
>thread instantly derailed, discussion about something that people enjoy, admire, and respect ceases
>shitposting ensues
I hate glowies so much, let us talk about a great film in peace please.
The trick is death of the author. Something all of Cinemaphile seems to have forgotten, despite this site literally being death-of-the-author.com
That's right, just pretend your culture isn't created by Marxists and they'll magically go away!
sponsored glowie homosexual
Meds, immediately
I love how simple and sparse the movie is, but it's still so powerful anyway. The sets look barely there, almost minimalistic.
Morton is my favorite character, especially with the painting and then the way he dies in a puddle next to the train.
The boy just wanted to reach the ocean to go in a feel weightless again. But died in a puddle.
>Gonna be a beautiful town, Sweetwater.
POLITICS ARE FOR gayS AHHHHHHH
THIS SCENE IS TOO GOOD!
To me this movie is primarily about the death of the wild west and the time of the outlaws, as shown by the coming of the railroad and building of the town at the end. If you have to put a political angle on it you can say it's about businessmen and politicians replacing the bandits, making their crimes look small time in comparison
>To me this movie is primarily about the death of the wild west and the time of the outlaws, as shown by the coming of the railroad and building of the town at the end.
Nobody's disputing this
> If you have to put a political angle on it you can say it's about businessmen and politicians replacing the bandits, making their crimes look small time in comparison
Nope, because the capitalist/imperialist also bites the dust. The closing shot sums it up, it's about the "nouveau riche" (feminine multiethnic entrepreneurship) replacing the joint forces of white male capital and violence (Morton and Frank) that built the West
more like death of real men
Real men don't seethe and hold grudges for 30 years and dedicate their entire life to nothing but getting revenge on a guy
Do you realize how fricking gay you sound? Given the circumstances that we see in the film, Harmonica was in the right. You're like the meme of the guy getting his bike stolen but is okay with it because maybe the guy that stole it needed it more.
You have the mindset of a woman. Guys get over shit and move on with their lives.
Charles Bronson is le revenge man in like every movie he did
Maybe every movie you saw. Not in Rider on The Rain, Cold Sweat, Farewell Friend, Hard Times, Breakheart Pass, Breakout, From Noon Til Three.
But he was in Chanto's Land, Death Hunt, Death Wish, Mr. Majestyk, 10 to Midnight, Violent City, The White Buffalo, Chino, Messenger of Death, The Evil That Men Do.
Death Wish is more vengeance than revenge. Jeff Goldblum and the other rapists never come back into the story. He doesn't even look for them.
Hard Times was fun, I forgot about that one. He did like five death wish movies for Cannon which is what he's mostly known for now
the best western
geriatrics need not reply
The best spaghetti western at least.
Warlock (1959) is worth checking out if you liked Henry Fonda
is that my boy deforrest kelly?
Yeah, he's good in that one too
WAIT WAIT WAIT
MCCOY WAS IN WESTERNS!?
Every American actor from that time period has a bunch of westerns in their filmography.
He even played Morgan Earp in Gunfight at the O.K. Corral
I'm tied between Henry Fonda and Christopher Lee for basedest actor of all time
Not one single flaw
Should be taught at classes in film school with scene by scene review of its several aspects, highlighting blocking, framing, actors marks, music, light and how the plot advances with no hurry or excess
Lesson 1: Get a legendary composer to make you an incredible soundtrack
Lesson 2: Build your entire movie around that soundtrack
that's unironically the answer tbh, rest is just executing on fundamentals
I'm sure it is taught at any halfway decent school
I'm about to watch The Searchers. What am I in for, anons? How does it compare to OUATITW?
Don't compare the two, they're very different.
I have about 32 Bronson movies and have never seen anything passed the first Death Wish. Maybe I'll watch 2 because Michael Winner directed it like the first, and about 4 other Bronson movies.
The Mechanic is really good, better than Death Wish imo. Has that lonesome hitman existential feel to it similar to The Driver, but also has a bunch of good action scenes
It's an awesome movie, I loved the silent opening of him setting up the hit. The Stone Killer is a good one too, felt a bit like a Clint Eastwood movie.
Very different but a very good movie. Don't expect a stylish gunslinger western. Pay attention to the story and characters and enjoy the setting itself.
Taxi driver references this by making Keitel the pimp look like an Indian
It's one of Martin Scorsese's favorite movies. I just wish he'd use his connections to get it restored and released on 4K already like he did for The Red Shoes.
Schrader also borrowed the plot of a loner rescuing a young girl living amongst his enemies
Taxi Driver, Hardcore and Paris Texas all use the Searchers plot, except in modern times the girls are lost to the evils of prostitution instead
It's decent-ish. OUATITW is way better
Depends on what you're looking for. The Searchers is a much more mature film at the very least. OUATITW is just a cool flick.
I hate John Wayne acting like John Wayne in every movie he is
Because you're an America-hating commie
But he doesn't, he just has a distinct voice. Compare Ethan Edwards to Hondo Lane, George Washington McLintock, or Rooster Cogburn.
There's something silly about an actor being a symbol of masculinity.
What?
>The Searchers is a much more mature film at the very least.
No it's not. It's Ford's attempt at coping with the civil rights movement that ends up being a bit confused
You've been watching too many of those fan theorist "hidden messages in films" youtube videos.
>You've been watching too many of
Every time a normie starts a sentence with this phrase you know it's gonna be the most normgroid shit you've ever read
It's comparable in terms of greatness and the opening alone is a masterpiece
Imagine spending your entire lifetime just seeking vengeance of some dude who killed your brother. Dude, just move on
idk about politics but i don't like this flick because it's tryhard and boring. not once did it make me think of eating my rich neighbors
Goddamn, Annette was a nasty b***h
Something odd I noticed, Sam Elliot isn't listed as being in Breakheart Pass with Bronson in 1975. He gets shot in the head and has maybe two lines in it.
The age difference of the actors is kinda weird.
In the harmonica scene Bronson's young character looks like in his early teens, while Honda look like 40. Then later they both look the same age.
I'm sure Frank in the flashback was in his late 20's early 30's while Harmonica was a late teen. So Harmonica being 45 and Frank being nearly 60 makes sense.
I believe Fonda was about fifteen years older than Bronson even IRL, so Harmonica could be about 15 while Frank was in his early thirties.