>the same people complaining that Superman should save people when he was told not to are now complaining when Spider-Man saves people he was told not to
Nobody is complaining about Miles' choice here, it's the fact that literally every other Spider-person we see seems to agree with Pa Kent for some fricking reason, especially Peter B which is a complete character assassination
I was complaining about both of these things since I've watched those films. It's just normalgays parroting their favourite e-celebs who suck Memeverse's dick.
What? EVERYONE on Cinemaphile, for once co was a hivemind, said Miles choice of trying to save everyone is what a Spiderman would do. And the same with the Superman movie.
>the same moron can't see why people might side with a multiversal constant that at least seemingly appears to be on the level of rule of nature and risks destroying entire universes, while the other case is just one dude's opinion on a relatively minor and small-scale event
>the same people complaining that Superman should save people when he was told not to are now complaining when Spider-Man saves people he was told not to
>We can't accept that one can't save everyone no matter what
How do you change the ending?
Flash already changed it once in the movie when he saved his mom. Also when Batman didn't bansai into the alien shield. It makes no sense that Barry suddenly wouldn't be able to change events again. This movie is dumb and so is everyone who liked it.
The problem with Flash is the story is decent (I would even go so far as to say it's solid, if a bit cliched) but the wonky effects make it hard for anyone to take it seriously.
What zoomies don't seem to understand or accept is that sometimes sacrifices must be made in the name of the greater good. They think everyone can be happy and have a slice of the pie but the reality is that just isn't realistic or sustainable. Some people have to suffer for most people to prosper.
>Some people have to suffer for most people to prosper.
By "some people", I mean "people who aren't me", and by "most people ", I mean "me, only me, me me me me me me". Get the frick off MY planet and stop using MY resources.
>Get the frick off MY planet
I would if I could. I want off this rock and away from all you c**ts.
Problem is that it isn't feasible to ditch you all yet.
What millennials don't seem to understand is that there is such a thing as righteousness, and following it is rewarded.
Most of your problems can be traced back to your ruthless opportunism and lack of regard for what's right or wrong, just like Miguel's.
And the problem is that the movie is making it so everyone but Miles has to make sacrifices, and yet that you're only supposed to care about Miles' non-compelling Gary Stu story and not everyone else's pathos
Not a single character in the movie is given the choice to save their canon "sacrifice" except for Miles. In fact your criticism applies much more to Gwen than Miles, her father is literally just saved by the script and she gets to avoid the problem entirely.
>Not a single character in the movie is given the choice to save their canon "sacrifice" except for Miles
Yes they are, if Miles can save his dad then everyone could've saved their uncle Bens, George Stacies etc
>"b-b-but Miles is the only one that knows about canon events in advance!"
Then why tell him? If not knowing means you're going to fail 100% there is no reason for Miguel to tell him and give him a chance of saving his dad, there's also the fact they go to India's universe and just let his loved ones die
>Yes they are,
Theoretically, but none of them had it literally laid out in front of them before it happened. None of them knew beforehand and had the opportunity to stop it. >Then why tell him?
There is no reason, the script is mediocre. The canon event stuff is literally the only interesting thing about it.
>Theoretically, but none of them had it literally laid out in front of them before it happened.
Except Miles who's told for some reason, while India and presumably many others that are yet to have their canon events are kept in the dark, shit writing
>The canon event stuff is literally the only interesting thing about it.
They took the worst aspect of comics and made it 100x worse to construct a shit bad faith narrative
9 months ago
Anonymous
It is shit writing, I'm just saying that Miles isn't a Gary Stu just because he made the correct choice on a test that others weren't even given.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Miles, the choice, the test, and the others aren't real, they're characters written by writers, and the writers decided to write a Gary Stu narrative around Miles. The fact that the writers treat him as special and give him sole exemption status makes him a Gary Stu.
Miguel has the gall to complain to Miles about messing with the canonicity of another universe when he impersonated a dead man and stole his family.
the only "wrong" thing Miles did was sneaking inside the cult of Miguel O'Thanos
>Theoretically, but none of them had it literally laid out in front of them before it happened.
Except Miles who's told for some reason, while India and presumably many others that are yet to have their canon events are kept in the dark, shit writing
>The canon event stuff is literally the only interesting thing about it.
They took the worst aspect of comics and made it 100x worse to construct a shit bad faith narrative
It is shit writing, I'm just saying that Miles isn't a Gary Stu just because he made the correct choice on a test that others weren't even given.
Miles, the choice, the test, and the others aren't real, they're characters written by writers, and the writers decided to write a Gary Stu narrative around Miles. The fact that the writers treat him as special and give him sole exemption status makes him a Gary Stu.
And Miguel probably wasn't expecting Miles to break the trap. He had a plan, and he had a backup plan, but he didn't have a backup plan for his backup plan, and the best he could come up with on the fly was "release the spider-hounds!" And he didn't know that Miles wanted him to do that. He's not a mind reader.
His plan was to keep Miles in the dark about the whole thing, and then he sabotages his own plan by telling Miles because... because.
9 months ago
Anonymous
If Miles reacted poorly and tried to escape, Miguel still had the shield trap ready. It would have worked like a charm if Spider-Punk wasn't secretly helping Miles.
9 months ago
Anonymous
He didn't need the trap, he could've just not told Miles
9 months ago
Anonymous
He was trying to explain to Miles exactly why he fricked up. Which isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Keeping him in the dark wasn't working, because Miles had still gotten involved, and because Miles didn't know about canon events, he interfered with one. Miguel could only keep the kid in the dark for so long, and he probably figured "better he hears it from me."
9 months ago
Anonymous
Why? Just push him back into his own dimension where he's helpless without telling him anything, he can't do anything about it
9 months ago
Anonymous
There's still the issue of Miles being an anomaly. Miguel was a guy trying to do the right thing but his decision-making abilities were being hampered by his personal biases and his assumption that he had all of the facts. He's not an emotionless being of pure logic. He's human. Humans don't always take the best course of action. They aren't infallible.
9 months ago
Anonymous
He was fine letting the anomaly roam free in his universe for a year, even when Miles was brought to the society it was against Miguel's wishes
9 months ago
Anonymous
>He was fine letting the anomaly roam free in his universe for a year
And after meeting him he changed his mind.
The set-up seemed pretty obvious that Miguel is wrong about canon events in some detail somewhere, because Gwen was able to patch things up with her dad who was police captain, but dropped that job, removing him from the "police captain must die" aspect of Spider-tragedy.
What millennials don't seem to understand is that there is such a thing as righteousness, and following it is rewarded.
Most of your problems can be traced back to your ruthless opportunism and lack of regard for what's right or wrong, just like Miguel's.
Miguel acted out of righteousness, or at least selfish desire, when he went to that multiverse where he died but his family survived, so Miguel's view on that is solidified that there are rules that if not followed have dire consequences.
That empowers him to do bad things to prevent worse things.
It was just selfish desire, and if he had never done it there would be none of this "letting people die" crap poisoning the minds of hundreds of Spiderpeople.
When he's proven wrong in the next movie I want you to think about how many people his crew has let die over the course of their operations for no reason other than canonicity.
You're a defeatist cuck and should not have children. If you have the chance to help, do it. Don't listen to your fascist leader. Search for solutions instead of telling a kid to let his father die because you can't be bothered to come up with something as simple as a cop just not going to work anymore.
I don't think that's the message of that movie. Remember in the first Spiderman movie, goblin puts a bus full of random people and Mary Jane in danger. He was going to drop both and said Peter could only save one. So he drops both but Peter saves both of them anyway. I think that's what they're aiming for.
Yeah but have considered that Miles is just a better Spider-Man and these writers want to make that point explicitely clear having never actually understood a single movie, cartoon or comicbook of Spider-Man?
But Capeshit Adults can't handle the world as it is or the need for hard decisions. That's why they drown themselves in Capeshit, so they can see the costumed good guy win completely without compromise or moral turbulence
> enterainement is when conflicts and morals are easy to defines and the heroes get what they want
No that's escapim. By your definition plenty cult movies or stories aren't entertainement. It's a good thing not every fictions sanitize it's characters and world to be mass consumed and family friendly by modern standards.
> enterainement is when conflicts and morals are easy to defines and the heroes get what they want
No that's escapim. By your definition plenty cult movies or stories aren't entertainement. It's a good thing not every fictions sanitize it's characters and world to be mass consumed and family friendly by modern standards.
If you hate capeshit so much, why the frick are you here? Do you enjoy inhaling your own farts this much, you fricking c**t? Go commit suicide so the angels will have to deal your annoying ass instead of the rest of us.
If the opportunity to frick all that and actually DO something within your power presents itself, would you not take it? Sacrifice is weakness. "Greater good" is a self-aggrandizing wank-fisted cop-out for those too weak to square their jaws and put in the work required to do the right thing.
And who defines "greater good?" Just because that's the way the world is doesn't mean that's how it has to be. Saying otherwise is just an excuse lazy and defeatist people use so they don't have to do anything. People can and should strive to be better so we don't have to make those kinds of sacrifices.
With this mindset, you are morally obligated to disembowel yourself so that your organs can be donated to those in need. There are people dying out there. Why aren't you sacrificing for the greater good, bro?
And Miguel probably wasn't expecting Miles to break the trap. He had a plan, and he had a backup plan, but he didn't have a backup plan for his backup plan, and the best he could come up with on the fly was "release the spider-hounds!" And he didn't know that Miles wanted him to do that. He's not a mind reader.
>"Of course not, Miles. You can attempt to save him as much as you want. However, due to how canon events work, you will inevitably fail no matter what you do. The only way that you could possibly save your father is if someone told you beforehand that this event was coming, like I have just done, AND if you received help from people outside your own dimension, like from your, at least, seven friends that I have given portal devices to. In hindsight, I don't know why I did either of these." >"Also note that, since this event requires your presence, it's also not really possible for me to prevent you from trying to stop it, by say, locking you up here for two days, since I would just need to inevitably release you anyway to participate in it."
What I hate most about this plot point is the phrase "Canon Event"
I fricking audibly groaned in the theater
I am so done with this 4th wall breaking meta bullshit. It's not clever, it's not compelling, it's not subversive. It's a worn out gimmick that needs to fricking die.
There could have been all kinds of sci-fi bullshit that meant he couldn't return but they had to lean on this dumb trash.
What pissed me off the most is that they're doing a generic fate plotline but hiding it behind some meta bullshit to pretend it's original and smart, and fricking idiots are eating it up because he used the word "canon"
Heres the obvious non-4th wall rewrite >"Spot is a multiversal threat. We can contain him in his universe of origin and save billions of lives." >"But he wants to kill my dad." >"We've all made sacrifices kid"
Fate is a crutch for bad writing. "Why is thing happening? Cuz its supposed to!" Very few stories actually use Fate as theme effectively
No, it fits. Canon is a religious term, so it's a good way of showing that Miguel is... well... a self-mythologizing narcissistic autocrat.
Is it? Treating the events of your life like they're so important that the universe will collapse if they don't happen is pretty self-mythologizing and narcissistic.
And they're talking about Spider-Man's arch enemy as well who initiates that canon event. I doubt that Indian Spider-Man's arch enemy is Miles' Spot as well.
I don't really care about this whole debacle, it's how I expect a 15 yo to react. However, I don't like how Miles is suddenly stronger and smarter than every other Spider-Man. Gwen has too much plot armour as well
Yeah, it's like these movies are supposed to showcase versions of characters from different times too. Did you also complain about the vulture being from renaissance era Italy? Shut the frick up, man. He's a punk, his intro sequence showed that his world is this magazine looking crazy place with police in riot gear. He is the man to be anti-establishment.
Maybe
>the same people complaining that Superman should save people when he was told not to are now complaining when Spider-Man saves people he was told not to
As a rule, Cinemaphile is a fool.
When it's hot, Cinemaphile wants it cool.
When it's cool, Cinemaphile wants it hot.
Always wanting what is not.
People are complaining every Spider-Man is telling another Spider-Man not to save people
Nobody is complaining about Miles' choice here, it's the fact that literally every other Spider-person we see seems to agree with Pa Kent for some fricking reason, especially Peter B which is a complete character assassination
I was complaining about both of these things since I've watched those films. It's just normalgays parroting their favourite e-celebs who suck Memeverse's dick.
What? EVERYONE on Cinemaphile, for once co was a hivemind, said Miles choice of trying to save everyone is what a Spiderman would do. And the same with the Superman movie.
>the same moron can't see why people might side with a multiversal constant that at least seemingly appears to be on the level of rule of nature and risks destroying entire universes, while the other case is just one dude's opinion on a relatively minor and small-scale event
>We can't accept that one can't save everyone no matter what
How do you change the ending?
Flash already changed it once in the movie when he saved his mom. Also when Batman didn't bansai into the alien shield. It makes no sense that Barry suddenly wouldn't be able to change events again. This movie is dumb and so is everyone who liked it.
The problem with Flash is the story is decent (I would even go so far as to say it's solid, if a bit cliched) but the wonky effects make it hard for anyone to take it seriously.
What zoomies don't seem to understand or accept is that sometimes sacrifices must be made in the name of the greater good. They think everyone can be happy and have a slice of the pie but the reality is that just isn't realistic or sustainable. Some people have to suffer for most people to prosper.
>Some people have to suffer for most people to prosper.
By "some people", I mean "people who aren't me", and by "most people ", I mean "me, only me, me me me me me me". Get the frick off MY planet and stop using MY resources.
>Get the frick off MY planet
I would if I could. I want off this rock and away from all you c**ts.
Problem is that it isn't feasible to ditch you all yet.
What millennials don't seem to understand is that there is such a thing as righteousness, and following it is rewarded.
Most of your problems can be traced back to your ruthless opportunism and lack of regard for what's right or wrong, just like Miguel's.
And the problem is that the movie is making it so everyone but Miles has to make sacrifices, and yet that you're only supposed to care about Miles' non-compelling Gary Stu story and not everyone else's pathos
Not a single character in the movie is given the choice to save their canon "sacrifice" except for Miles. In fact your criticism applies much more to Gwen than Miles, her father is literally just saved by the script and she gets to avoid the problem entirely.
>Not a single character in the movie is given the choice to save their canon "sacrifice" except for Miles
Yes they are, if Miles can save his dad then everyone could've saved their uncle Bens, George Stacies etc
>"b-b-but Miles is the only one that knows about canon events in advance!"
Then why tell him? If not knowing means you're going to fail 100% there is no reason for Miguel to tell him and give him a chance of saving his dad, there's also the fact they go to India's universe and just let his loved ones die
>Yes they are,
Theoretically, but none of them had it literally laid out in front of them before it happened. None of them knew beforehand and had the opportunity to stop it.
>Then why tell him?
There is no reason, the script is mediocre. The canon event stuff is literally the only interesting thing about it.
>Theoretically, but none of them had it literally laid out in front of them before it happened.
Except Miles who's told for some reason, while India and presumably many others that are yet to have their canon events are kept in the dark, shit writing
>The canon event stuff is literally the only interesting thing about it.
They took the worst aspect of comics and made it 100x worse to construct a shit bad faith narrative
It is shit writing, I'm just saying that Miles isn't a Gary Stu just because he made the correct choice on a test that others weren't even given.
Miles, the choice, the test, and the others aren't real, they're characters written by writers, and the writers decided to write a Gary Stu narrative around Miles. The fact that the writers treat him as special and give him sole exemption status makes him a Gary Stu.
Miguel has the gall to complain to Miles about messing with the canonicity of another universe when he impersonated a dead man and stole his family.
the only "wrong" thing Miles did was sneaking inside the cult of Miguel O'Thanos
seethe more
>Then why tell him?
Because other Spider-Men sided with Miguel when told.
Then why not tell him for the year before that
His plan was to keep Miles in the dark about the whole thing, and then he sabotages his own plan by telling Miles because... because.
If Miles reacted poorly and tried to escape, Miguel still had the shield trap ready. It would have worked like a charm if Spider-Punk wasn't secretly helping Miles.
He didn't need the trap, he could've just not told Miles
He was trying to explain to Miles exactly why he fricked up. Which isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Keeping him in the dark wasn't working, because Miles had still gotten involved, and because Miles didn't know about canon events, he interfered with one. Miguel could only keep the kid in the dark for so long, and he probably figured "better he hears it from me."
Why? Just push him back into his own dimension where he's helpless without telling him anything, he can't do anything about it
There's still the issue of Miles being an anomaly. Miguel was a guy trying to do the right thing but his decision-making abilities were being hampered by his personal biases and his assumption that he had all of the facts. He's not an emotionless being of pure logic. He's human. Humans don't always take the best course of action. They aren't infallible.
He was fine letting the anomaly roam free in his universe for a year, even when Miles was brought to the society it was against Miguel's wishes
>He was fine letting the anomaly roam free in his universe for a year
And after meeting him he changed his mind.
From what, to what
The set-up seemed pretty obvious that Miguel is wrong about canon events in some detail somewhere, because Gwen was able to patch things up with her dad who was police captain, but dropped that job, removing him from the "police captain must die" aspect of Spider-tragedy.
Miguel acted out of righteousness, or at least selfish desire, when he went to that multiverse where he died but his family survived, so Miguel's view on that is solidified that there are rules that if not followed have dire consequences.
That empowers him to do bad things to prevent worse things.
It was just selfish desire, and if he had never done it there would be none of this "letting people die" crap poisoning the minds of hundreds of Spiderpeople.
When he's proven wrong in the next movie I want you to think about how many people his crew has let die over the course of their operations for no reason other than canonicity.
You're a defeatist cuck and should not have children. If you have the chance to help, do it. Don't listen to your fascist leader. Search for solutions instead of telling a kid to let his father die because you can't be bothered to come up with something as simple as a cop just not going to work anymore.
Imagine being this mentally unstable.
You just getting a little ramped up before your next Just Stop Oil annoyance?
Project harder, cuck
>Just Stop Oil annoyance
>The anon is arguing against death of innocents for the Greater Good.
Pick one.
I don't think that's the message of that movie. Remember in the first Spiderman movie, goblin puts a bus full of random people and Mary Jane in danger. He was going to drop both and said Peter could only save one. So he drops both but Peter saves both of them anyway. I think that's what they're aiming for.
Shut the frick up Miguel.
Yeah, but you should always try to save everyone.
Yeah but have considered that Miles is just a better Spider-Man and these writers want to make that point explicitely clear having never actually understood a single movie, cartoon or comicbook of Spider-Man?
What's this from?
Thor Annual #1
It's from this year which is hilarious.
That was a pretty good read, thanks anon. I always liked the odd moment between Thor and Spider-Man
Permission to speak freely, sir?
Frick that.
But Capeshit Adults can't handle the world as it is or the need for hard decisions. That's why they drown themselves in Capeshit, so they can see the costumed good guy win completely without compromise or moral turbulence
>idealism bad because uh
>adulthood!
Isn't the whole point of entertainment to be entertained? Only pretentious twats think movies should be difficult and depressing.
> enterainement is when conflicts and morals are easy to defines and the heroes get what they want
No that's escapim. By your definition plenty cult movies or stories aren't entertainement. It's a good thing not every fictions sanitize it's characters and world to be mass consumed and family friendly by modern standards.
If you hate capeshit so much, why the frick are you here? Do you enjoy inhaling your own farts this much, you fricking c**t? Go commit suicide so the angels will have to deal your annoying ass instead of the rest of us.
If the opportunity to frick all that and actually DO something within your power presents itself, would you not take it? Sacrifice is weakness. "Greater good" is a self-aggrandizing wank-fisted cop-out for those too weak to square their jaws and put in the work required to do the right thing.
And who defines "greater good?" Just because that's the way the world is doesn't mean that's how it has to be. Saying otherwise is just an excuse lazy and defeatist people use so they don't have to do anything. People can and should strive to be better so we don't have to make those kinds of sacrifices.
>zoomies
but I don't even like miles
With this mindset, you are morally obligated to disembowel yourself so that your organs can be donated to those in need. There are people dying out there. Why aren't you sacrificing for the greater good, bro?
>Some people have to suffer
But we can help.
Why did they even tell him?
>hey miles the portal thingy is broken. should take 3 days to fix, maybe 4
He already knew his dad was in danger from the Spot
Because they didn't know he'd go "wait a minute, my dad's a police captain".
It's implied Peter and Gwen knew it and that's why they didn't visit him for a year
And Miguel probably wasn't expecting Miles to break the trap. He had a plan, and he had a backup plan, but he didn't have a backup plan for his backup plan, and the best he could come up with on the fly was "release the spider-hounds!" And he didn't know that Miles wanted him to do that. He's not a mind reader.
>"Of course not, Miles. You can attempt to save him as much as you want. However, due to how canon events work, you will inevitably fail no matter what you do. The only way that you could possibly save your father is if someone told you beforehand that this event was coming, like I have just done, AND if you received help from people outside your own dimension, like from your, at least, seven friends that I have given portal devices to. In hindsight, I don't know why I did either of these."
>"Also note that, since this event requires your presence, it's also not really possible for me to prevent you from trying to stop it, by say, locking you up here for two days, since I would just need to inevitably release you anyway to participate in it."
What I hate most about this plot point is the phrase "Canon Event"
I fricking audibly groaned in the theater
I am so done with this 4th wall breaking meta bullshit. It's not clever, it's not compelling, it's not subversive. It's a worn out gimmick that needs to fricking die.
There could have been all kinds of sci-fi bullshit that meant he couldn't return but they had to lean on this dumb trash.
What pissed me off the most is that they're doing a generic fate plotline but hiding it behind some meta bullshit to pretend it's original and smart, and fricking idiots are eating it up because he used the word "canon"
Heres the obvious non-4th wall rewrite
>"Spot is a multiversal threat. We can contain him in his universe of origin and save billions of lives."
>"But he wants to kill my dad."
>"We've all made sacrifices kid"
Fate is a crutch for bad writing. "Why is thing happening? Cuz its supposed to!" Very few stories actually use Fate as theme effectively
that's reachin mate
>that's reachin mate
Is it? Treating the events of your life like they're so important that the universe will collapse if they don't happen is pretty self-mythologizing and narcissistic.
I'm not saying your characterization is reaching
I'm just saying that the use of meta terminology isn't a thoughtful use of that characterization
Canon is literally a religious term.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
You know damn well that’s not why they chose to call them canon events
it actually is though?
And they're talking about Spider-Man's arch enemy as well who initiates that canon event. I doubt that Indian Spider-Man's arch enemy is Miles' Spot as well.
That would make the movie so much better as Spot remains the villain in the Miguel-Miles conflict.
No, it fits. Canon is a religious term, so it's a good way of showing that Miguel is... well... a self-mythologizing narcissistic autocrat.
Sounds like a load of wank to me.
Can't believe they shat on Miggy like that
Miguel's chest
>pause the video? are you expecting me to die!?!?
Yes
In real life
why do streamers get mad when you ask them to pause a video if you aren't going to react to it or going to the bathroom or some shit
>when you're trying to sneak up on Miles but you're dummy thicc and the clap of your asscheeks keeps giving your position away
I don't really care about this whole debacle, it's how I expect a 15 yo to react. However, I don't like how Miles is suddenly stronger and smarter than every other Spider-Man. Gwen has too much plot armour as well
Miles is the guy who has insane plot armor. Everyone else pales in comparison to him
I thought it was already a lot with they gave him electric shock powers, but now he has invisibility too. Frick that shit.
#NotMySpiderMan
Invisibility that hides him from other people's Spider Sense as well if I might add.
I'MA DO MA OWN THING
That anti-establishment Brit Spider-Man was the most cringe though
Not at all, he was the only one that could possibly be anti-estabilishment because he's supposed to be a punk.
Much like Goths, Punks being or representing anti-establisment stopped being a thing since the late 90s.
Yeah, it's like these movies are supposed to showcase versions of characters from different times too. Did you also complain about the vulture being from renaissance era Italy? Shut the frick up, man. He's a punk, his intro sequence showed that his world is this magazine looking crazy place with police in riot gear. He is the man to be anti-establishment.