What are some of the worst examples of character assassination in comics you can think of?
Hard Mode: No Beast, Maxwell Lord, or Ben Reilly.
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What are some of the worst examples of character assassination in comics you can think of?
Havok, that guy has been all over the place since AvX and still hasn't recovered
>that time dr druid, vibro, and shocker signed off on mass sacrificing an entire town to demons so a villain named nighteater could become a d-list hero named nightwatch and all of them were perfectly fine with it
That’s a good one, because it’s not just assassinating one character, but four in one fell swoop.
She used to be fun, and then she died, then she came back and it’s been down hill since then.
Squirell Girl. No idea what the frick her stories are, but her appereance is definitely an assassination of something. Probably taste and my eyesight.
*murders a child to teach you a lesson*
The girl's alive.
She wasn't then.
Frick whichever writer thought this was a good idea.
these ones hurt
>help mutants deal with their shit for thousands of years
>mutants backstab you for reasons
>realize mutants are a mistake and need to be purged
>Marvel wants us to believe she is wrong
related to OP's question:
What writer has done the MOST harm to various characters through the course of their career? Byrne has to be near the top there, right?
It's got to be Byrne or Benis.
bendis but the entire x-office has collectively decided to destroy as many characters as they physically can
on the other hand so many x-men characters are such trite one-note dogshit that it's really no great loss
>you wouldn't frick a toaster
I love that he's now alive in an era when people not only would frick toasters but do frick toasters, not because they think toasters are alive or feel anything but just because they can, while Byrne is stuck trying to get boomers to photocopy their drivers license in order to gain access to the distilled wisdom of his phpbb2 board
anyway counter-question: which writer since 1990 has undoubtedly done greatest harm to legacy characters BUT has also created new legacy characters and/or foundational stories we all accept?
(using 1990 as the cutoff to avoid Miller/Daredevil/Elektra being considered; Daredevil post-Miller is radically different to pre-Miller, but we accept it because it's a solid change, in spite of pissing all over pretty much everything that went before, often for shock value)
Morrison started it.
Byrne although most of his shitty ideas have been reversed by this point. We are still feeling the effects of Bendis
Bendis, no contest
Tom King is trying his best, though
On the bright side at least Tom King’s shit got backlash so bad even he regrets it.
Morrison
Byrne is up there yeah.
Bendis, Morrison, Johns, Slott, and King are also up there.
Moira didn't get character asssasinated tbh, she was always a hardass.
no the robot bs never happened.
>Moira didn't get character asssasinated tbh, she was always a hardass.
She was often forced into situations where she had to make harsh decisions but typically she was a very emotionally distraught person because of it. She certainly wasn't.... whatever the frick she's supposed to be now.
As of Across the Spider-Verse, every single Spider-Man but Miles
Honestly I liked both Miguel and miles, the rest were extremely lame
Ruined 3 characters in 1 comic
I think New 52 ruined significantly more than that.
best writer any of them ever had
Jade used to be more of a sweetheart with arrogance and impulsiveness being her main flaws and was the wish fulfillment character of her team, but since Kyle was already nice and the wish fulfillment character of his book, her personality got changed to be much more abrasive and b***hy to make her less superfluous in Kyle’s book. And then writers did this to her and killed her.
Jade’s main storyline in Infinity Inc was literally her being the only person to give Grundy a chance and saving him, resulting in him imprinting on her like a duck, and then in GL Quarterly that writer had her cry when Grundy didn’t remember her and was evil, resulting in her having to attack him. And then Kyle writers just wrote her giving Killer Frost shit for trying to do good when she should’ve been open to her attempt.
Judging from the costume, that was just after Kyle restored her powers? Even before that he gave her a Green Lantern ring. b***h is top tier ungrateful.
Early in Winnick's run. This is also taking place in Kyle's apartment too. Jade had a guy come live there after Kyle went to space to revive the Guardians and restart the Corps. When he got back to Earth she made him leave and blamed it all on him for going to space for a month.
Then she was just killed for no real reason in Rann Thanagar War.
The Mary Jane "Paul" Situation
Alan used to be Gotham's original chad that tagged the Ivy and bagged the Harley of his day.
now he's a gay
Why is DC making almost everyone in Alan's circle gay too? The JSA mini from last year had Harlequin also be gay, but had a son...who is also gay and became modern Harlequin. Obsidian is back but there is no mention that he is related to Alan now.
Harlequin's son is a character from the 1980s that was always meant to be gay. See pic.
And Obsidian has been mentioned as his son multiple times and calls Alan dad whenever they appear together.
Read comics.
Obsidian was his son in one of the pride specials in the last couple years.
Since when was the Golden Age Harlequin gay?
tbh that makes it even more impressive to me that a gay dude was able to do it.
Ice-man. Never was my favorite mutant. But ever since they made him gay that's all he's become. And the justifications they used to try and validate it
>But in the 1960s he was the only one who wasn't immediately turning into a Tex Avery cartoon for Jean!!
Never mind all the decades of actual romances he had. Remember he was a thing with Lorna Dane? I actually didn't, been rereading pre-Uncanny but there it was. 100 percent hetero from the start.
The notion that him being a homosexual makes sense is not even worth arguing against.
Lorna left him for Havok because her woman’s intuition told her he was gay
I find that defense really pathetic, since the whole point of that scene was Bobby was trying to show off how cool he was by not immediately going gaga for Jean. In the same issue he still makes passes at her, and was the first X-man to have an established relationship.
>In the same issue he still makes passes at her, and was the first X-man to have an established relationship.
It's really always very funny when the morons will use that one panel but ignore the entire rest of the series.
Mary Jane was once Peter’s most popular love interest cause she was the most fun and interesting, and cause Gwen and Felicia were nothing but drama. Then she became the most hated and nothing but drama. What happened?
Nothing of note. Writers think stable relationships are lame. Peter dates one person for too long and suddenly some shit has to erupt or they think we’ll stop paying attention.
everyone after OMD decided to make her an insufferable b***h
I blame Raimi and Ultimate Spider-Man for making her boring to
>Then she became the most hated
No, she didn't
What the frick are you talking about?
Kelley Puckett spending like 5 years writing every Babs as Batgirl appearance to make her seem incompetent and pathetic.
Get help, moron. You've been obsessed with this misinformation for years. These stories were beautiful and made me love Babs more than any other comic. Believe it or not, watching a character struggle can be more charismatic than them always triumphing and characters aren't measured by who's more skilled.
Peter Parker
One More Day was the dumbest thing Marvel ever did. Peter selling his marriage to a judeo christian devil was just so fricking lazy. You didn't need to do that break up the marriage guys, he could have had a regular divorce, Mary Jane and Peter had problems that could have justified a totally grounded divorce, he's always been a predominately street level hero, why is he soliciting an interdimensional deity to magic a bullet out of his aunt?
I would actually give a frick about these 'but will Mary Jane and Peter get back together' stories if he hadn't sold his fricking marriage to the fricking judeo christian devil, divorcees maturing and getting back together is a thing, but not after the Reddit thread "Am I the butthole for breaking up my marriage with the devil and then trying to get back together with her like it was nothing?' Run, Mary Jane! When the going gets tough he sometimes calls the devil! That's a red flag!
And now everytime the ole Parker luck is in a story I'm like 'well why don't you call your buddy the devil to come help you out?' Oh, you stopped a purse snatcher? Well the storm of causality rewriting the universe to undo your marriage probably killed some background characters, rewrote people's lives, stole their futures, you don't think bringing Harry Osborne back to life had consequences?. It's fricking gross. Every time something happens now, it's touched by that dumb fricking thing. I can't root for him anymore. Peter is supposed to be the guy who would do anything to do the right thing, he's always said no to offers of easy street because he's supposed to know more than anyone that even one selfish thing can have consequences, and he tossed MJ away like a snot rag.
leave it to comics to do the simplest things in the most moronic way possible. Also Quicksilver and Crystal need to get back together.
Why do people like you, who harp on the raw audacity of Spider-Man selling his marriage to the devil, always ignore that it was MJ who finalized the deal? It's not enough to call out the ridiculousness of the plot, you treat it like a damning character flaw inherent to Peter Parker, while MJ's an innocent damsel who fell in with the wrong man. News flash: every last character appearing in that story was a victim of the plot, not just MJ.
The sad reality is that stories like One More Day are so egregiously hackneyed that you can't possibly connect a character's previous actions to the unfolding events and have to square the blame solely on the writers. There's just no in-universe way to explain it based on the characters' prior history.
Mostly because MJ's part in this is not the same:
>Mephisto: "YES, NOW I HAVE FINALLY DONE WHAT NO OTHER VILLAIN HAS DONE! I HAVE TEMPTED AND DEBASED THE IRON WILL OF SPIDERMAN! AND equally as important to me A RANDOM EX-SUPERMODEL WHO HAPPENED TO MARRIED TO SPIDERMAN! YES, BOTH OF THESE PEOPLE, EQUALLY LONG TERM TARGETS OF THE MASTER OF DARKNESS! I MAY NOT EVEN BRAG ABOUT SPIDERMAN AT ALL NOW THAT I HAVE WON A BATTLE OF MIND CHESS AGAINST THAT RED HEAD THAT HAPPENED TO BE MARRIED TO SPIDERMAN! ONE TIME SHE BEAT UP THE CHAMELEON! REMEMBER THAT? TRULY EVERY BIT IS NOBLE AS CAPTAIN AMERICA, EVERY BIT AS MIGHTY AS THOR, THAT MJ!"
Like, dude, Mephisto's not there for Mary Jane. That's not what the story is about. He wants to frick with Spiderman. I doubt he even cares she was there at all.
Mary Jane is not a super hero.
So you're just going to skip over the part where Mephisto explicitly says he's after THEIR love, not just wrecking Spider-Man's marriage for fun? Alright, good to know.
Why does anyone care what Mary Jane does? She doesn't have a central creed like Spiderman. If Spiderman lets a criminal go to screw over someone, or fricks over the universe with devil magic, that's fricked up because we know his core motivations are against that. That's the whole 'with great power' thing. As much as Mary Jane has become her own character, she doesn't have a central creed like 'with great power'. Yeah, she's doing a bunch of poorly written things in the comics now that make her come off as b***hy and vindictive, but nothing about her backstory says she has to be a good person, has to care about people, or can't take the easy way out.
So yeah, I don't care that it's THEIR love because that's not what Mephisto wants. He wants to corrupt a person who shouldn't be corruptible. That's Spiderman. Spiderman should be the person saying 'no fricking way' even if MJ is all about devil magic. Mary Jane has no stakes. She sucks for also wanting to go through with devil magic, but she's not the character that has a central motivation of 'isn't a selfish butthole'.
>Hard Mode: No Beast, Maxwell Lord, or Ben Reilly.
For me the thing with Hank is that he got past it completely in the years that followed only for modern hack writers to bring it up again and demonise him for it
The whole Hank mess does feel like it's only really became a problem in the mid or so 2000s. Like everyone, maybe not FORGOT, about it but it's only more recently that the "oh so funneh" self aware modern writers keep bringing it up, while conveniently forgetting that he was going insane at the time.
It was hacks like Bendis bringing it back up while ignoring the 20 or so years of comics that came after combined with Millar doing his moronic edgy version of it in Ultimates.
All that resulted in people who don't read comics only knowing Hank as "wifebeater" with zero context and then deciding that they hate him
and then Bendis made him a Skrull anyway
What a world we live in where Slott was one of the last people to treat Hank with any sort of respect
Slott's honestly not terrible when he's not rubbing his greasy sausage fingers all over Spider-Man
The skrull shit was ironically a good thing as it absolved Hank of ALL culpability in making a murder clone of Thor and the other bad shit that he did in Civil War.
Also the plot point that Bendis explicitly gave Hank Pym a pure soul so virtuous that every time a Skrull got imprinted with Hank's memories, they ALL REBELLED against the Skrull Queen, to the point that they had to explicitly nerf the last Hank Skrull's memory upload so he only had partial memories of Hank and basically tell him "frick Tigra" to keep him from turning on the Skrulls.
Sadly, all of the stuff he did in Mighty Avengers got shitted on in Slott's Iron Man run, which ended with EVERYONE, Jan, Vision, and Iron Man and Jocasta in particular shitting on Hank/Pymtron to the extreme and ending with everyone joking about wanting to toss him into a black hole so he'll never fricking come back and Vision (who is 100% to blame for Hank being fused with Ultron) in particular explicitly stating that Hank needed to be destroyed and everyone basically claiming, on multiple occassions, that they never liked Hank.
What is Slott's fricking problem? Can virtue signalling alone explain this shit?
it was actually Chuck Austen in his brief Avengers run that brought it back as Hank Pym: Wife Beater. Trying to make a story about his own mum's experiences with domestic abuse through an Avengers story for some fricking reason. Its the same run that had Hank replaced on the team by Lionheart, a female British hero.
Lionheart had a great intro scene vs the Wrecking Crew, she definitely earned her magic powers
Young Avengers was fun and so was Fraction's Hawkeye
the mob doesn't want small arms that are obviously already tied to murders, the mob wants to buy shit that's easy to sell on legitimately in order to launder money from other sources
the moment someone pulls the barrel profile out of the FBI database they're gonna link you to all these other murders they're desperate to solve
shit dude the only reason DC Comics is still around today is because they got bought by a mob front company in the 1960s, right before the same company bought Warner Bros.; legitimate business is much simpler than trying to hide hookers and blow as sources of income
Him "going insane" during Trial was a retcon, albeit one that works given his previous antics as Yellowjacket. During the actual story he was entirely in control of his mental facilities. He was just angry, desperate to not get kicked off the team and dealing with feelings of inadequacy.
didn't spiderman also beat his girlfriend in the clone saga? why don't people bring that up, because he sacrificed his kid to the devil afterwords?
It only got worse
>peaceful mutant integration ends in robo-genocide
>peaceful mutant segregation ends in robo-genocide
>violent mutant supremacy ends in robo-genocide
>preemptively killing the maker of said robots ends in robo-genocide
>mutant cure infeasible because you get hunted down for being an Uncle Tom
I mean, nothing else has worked
Clearly this means robots are the true homosexual Superior of Marvel Earth. when does Machine Man, Jocasta, Ultron, and HERBIE take their rightful place as the leaders of Earth?
Exiles Vol 3. Herbie shows up in a crowd shot. It was cancelled after only 6 issues. Which was a goddamn shame.
Beechen Cass
Just... Beechen Cass
Beechen David, for that matter
Wasn't very fond of Nu52 David either.
You'll say that, but tell me... what do you think about Bruce Wayne formally adopting Cassandra?
>what do you think about Bruce Wayne formally adopting Cassandra?
Too little too fricking late. It's just calling attention to something that was by all other accounts to this point naturally assumed in an attempt to play on emotions.
Since you've banned Ben I'll take another obvious one.
She was never my favourite member of the WCA but I liked her well enough, and pic related has ruined her permanently
Might as well tack on this while we're at it
whats wrong with this?
Changed Clint's character and how people perceived him for a few good years.
Turned Hawkeye into the joke he is today
Everything but the art.
Basically it resulted in Clint becoming a parasite to Kate, because everything Clint could do she could do better. Next thing you know suddenly every character, even Clint's longtime friends, all treat him like a joke compared to the "Cool" Hawkeye.
At least Ewing played it for an actual chuckle in his New Avengers run, it's dropped exactly once in the series as a throwaway gag.
It’s amazing how the television show is the complete reverse of this. Even more so since by the time it was made most MCU stuff was shit.
>Eddie, there are two kind of magic intellect in the world
>The nerds that stay at home
>And the street smart Black
>Anyway, since the Beyonder dress in all white and you dress in all black, you are kinda the opposite to him
>That is right, Eddie, through years of wanking you- a street level homosexual with mental illness - has risen to the level that of a God
>This let you rip off your own arm to shoot symbiote dimension laser or whatever the frick that is capable of annihilating anyone in a single shot
>Though you are still called Venom you arent actually Venom since Venom is bonded to your son
>You are now also some kind of dollar store Kang with convoluted past present future selves playing 17D chess against eachother
I fricking hate comic
>To be punchtinued
Why do homosexuals write like this?
It's a throwback to the tongue-in-cheek closers of Marvel's early years. But like most throwbacks, they're often misused.
>What are some of the worst examples of character assassination in comics you can think of?
Cass when she was the talking assassin leading a bunch of ninjas or whatecer
Dick's personality and abilities has slowly been chipped away over the years to make room for the other Robins (starting with Tim being more "cerebral" than Dick per Dixon...), but Taylor straight up to a sledgehammer to it with his run by making him a uwu sanitized heckin good sunshine onii-chan.
>making him a uwu sanitized heckin good sunshine onii-chan.
Did he seriously make him Fanon Dick?
Jason Todd is being character assassinated since Starlin. It got worst after he becomes Red Hood.
Flanderization is nothing new to DC, but yeah, current Batman writers take "heavy inspiration" from the tumblr/twitter Batfam fandom.
Kate Bishop was a forced mistake.
A lot of this thread has examples of terrible, idiotic writing but to be a character ASSASSINATION I think it has to be where writers have screwed up a character deliberately, that it's been actual editorial policy to ruin their reputation.
The Punisher's wife being brought back to life just to deny his crusade would I think be the most recent example.
>The Punisher's wife being brought back to life just to deny his crusade would I think be the most recent example.
I mean that seems pretty accurate though, even Frank knows he's gone beyond what is normal
Leave Aaron
>Oh noes those poor drug dealers & pedophiles!
The issue isn't with her being troubled by his crusade its expected
The issue is her reaction is anger and stealing his fricking shit instead of horror at what he's done to himself turning into a walking pillar of hatred.
Also frick them criminals
>The issue is her reaction is anger and stealing his fricking shit
She needs to do that so he fricking stops, you dont let an addict keep his drugs
Yeah but that’s not what happened. She didn’t make a conscious logical decision as a character she’s just a tool the writer is using to shit on frank. Not giving her even a moment to react in horror or experience the loss of her husband in real time and skipping right to this spite and moral grandstanding is all punishment and no catharsis.
Maybe, but the point is that this storyline is being run specifically with the cynical objective of diminishing the Punisher's standing in the readership.
Marvel have been embarrassed by the Punisher for years and have been desperate to get rid of him. You can't just kill him off - superheroes have been killed and resurrected so many times that readers are primed to expect a comeback, death is basically a long weekend for capes - so you have to undermine him instead.
Frick off. Punisher has belonged in a dumpster the whole time.
your opinion belongs in a toilet, right next to your dilation toy
You are an idiot child. There's 35,000 books and movies of exactly the punisher, sold on dollar racks and Goodwills. It's boilerplate trash for people that never tie their shoes and think that oil changes are a conspiracy, from an era where we thought organized crime was Italian names and not law enforcement.
Frank has a kill count of a full Rhode Island's worth of pointless mooks and yet every punisher thread is dipshits like you falling all over themselves, saying how he "takes care of things" so much better than Daredevil or Spider-Man as though he's ever actually solved anything or reduced crime in any way.
Of course his wife would denounce his crusade.
>Hurr hurr troony
I could gash open my junk with a circular saw and still be less of a stupid, confused eunuch than you.
>Frank has a kill count of a full Rhode Island's worth of pointless mooks and yet every punisher thread is dipshits like you falling all over themselves, saying how he "takes care of things" so much better than Daredevil or Spider-Man as though he's ever actually solved anything or reduced crime in any way.
This isn't an argument. How effective at reducing crime is Batman? How long is the Joker ever in Arkham before he breaks out again, about thirty minutes?
You're right it's not an argument. Punisher is as pointless in universe, if not more, than any cape. And yet punisher fans jerk off to his supposed superiority despite that being objectively untrue on any level. Deadpool had him nailed 15 years ago. Boring, two dimensional relic.
He's not being ruined, you dumb frick, he's being portrayed as what he is, and the plot armor is falling off. The rest of us are tired of the shit.
>Last year, with our help, over half a dozen crack babies were reunited with their natural mothers... several of whom are now in recovery...
>Punisher is as pointless in universe, if not more, than any cape.
By killing the mobsters and gangsters that afflict normal people's regular lives on a day-to-day basis, FRONKH is at least more relevant than the rolling soap opera of who's sleeping with who in Xavier's mansion this week.
No, because it doesn't affect anything. Frank's killed more people than all known serial killers put together * 100 but he lives in a world with Infinite Mobsters, which makes killing them pointless but the book still occasionally points out that these people have families and loved ones, so it It's even more pointless than Arkham, but still cruel.
You know how in some stories, people rag on Batman for how he supposedly created the supervillain epidemic that plagues Gotham for the fact he crushed the spine of organized crime that in effect left a power vacuum for superpowered freaks and insane reprobates to fill in? Well, congratulations, cause Frank does the same thing for the Marvel universe but arguably worse because not only is there no limit to how many nameless thugs and rapists he kills but we know that he's too much of a pussy to go after the guys that are left in control of the remaining mobsters and gangsters afflicting normal people's regular lives on a day-to-day basis aka the supervillain criminals ala Hammerhead and Kingpin and Hydra.
That's right, Punisher's arguably even more useless than Batman at stopping crime, and he gets a boner for that.
That superman vs the elite story destroyed this whole edgy anti-hero shtick 20 years ago
It’s still muddy for normies though. The comic does a good job explaining why edgewank sucks but it’s easily misconstrued by morons as actually proving the Elites point at the end. Also, unfortunately, it’s undeniably cope written by angry super fans about how no one respects traditional heroics anymore and people love jumping on that as a gotcha.
Dude, whether the Punisher deserves to be ruined or not is besides the point. The objective fact is, specific editorial direction means that he is being actively character-assassinated so that no-one will ever want to revive him.
Should Marvel have had Conan chop off his fricking head?
>Twitter gay hates Punisher because he's liked by "awful people"
>He doesn't think Conan shares overlap with the same fanbase
Art of Coop is moronic
What a frickhead.
Keep in mind this frickwit is happy that a human being may have died underwater because that particular person was a billionaire.
did you think eat the rich was just a witty turn of phrase
>sold all of your safe houses and their contents
To who, moron? What kind of person is willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash (if not more) for the contents of dozens of safe houses filled with guns, ammo, and explosives? Who *has* that kind of money, in cash, to begin with? The fricking ACLU? Amnesty International?
God, I hate Jason Aaron.
Bud, it's New York real estate. Set the price 25% below market and it would be sold before the agent even managed to get it listed.
the real estate would sell no problem
but "all their contents" just made her one of the biggest arms dealers in the world
Ok?
>I hate your crusade
>so I'm going to sell all your illegal weapons to...somebody
>who would be in the market for illegal weapons, I wonder?
>best not to think about it, this is a gotcha moment for me after all
Man, somebody might have done something shortsighted and destructive because they are selfishly trying to punish someone? And this someone was married to Frank Castle? How Fricking Weird
This is clearly a YAAAS SLAY QUEEN moment though.
Why should she have to care about that shit all she wants to do is save her husband from his slow suicide, let the fricking Avengers handle that shit he should be at home with her not out in the streets doing god knows what
the husband she divorced?
Who would buy all of Frank's shit? The mob.
Remember that time She-Hulk destroyed an entire town & didn't care, Then she rips The Vision in half & goes on woe is me "I suck, I'm such a bad person" BS?
Ghost Riders tend to get the short end of the stick
Bendis aging up Jon. It's almost literal character assassination since it's not a change that can be fixed just by future writers walking back some bad characterization. Kid Jon is dead.
Gwen Stacy, Sins Past by J. Michael Straczynski
Carol Danvers, Captain Marvel #1 by Kelly Sue Deconnick
Hellcat by Kate Leth
Beta Ray Bill by all modern Thor writers, especially Cates, Bunn and Aaron
She-Hulk, by Soule, Tamaki or Aaron
Flash Thompson as Venom, by all writers except Remender; especially Bunn and Cates
The whole Ghost Rider Mythos, by Jason Aaron
GALACTUS, by Aaron, Bunn, Cates and nearly everyone else
Thanos, by Aaron and Cates
All of the Avengers Academy kids, by Cullen Bunn
Nico Minoru, by Rainbow Rowell
Peter Parker, by Dan Slott
The Entire Marvel Universe, by Dan Slott, during Superior Spider-Man
>She-Hulk, by Soule, Tamaki or Aaron
>Dan Slott
Do I need to show the "OHMIGOSH" collage?
I don't know what that is, but Dan's She-Hulk is fine, and attempting to imply that it's assassination of the character Byrne left behind would be too stupid for words. I don't care if you like it or not, but assassination isn't "run I don't like"
Fine.
Live in denial.
Jesus, it's sure fricking summer up in here.
What?
Whatever you must read the run as kid & didn't pick-up how fricking gross it is.
That's only reason people liked this.
Oh, is it not woke enough for you now?
it's literally one guy with a vendetta against Slott's She-Hulk
>She-Hulk is fine
>Gwen Stacy, Sins Past by J. Michael Straczynski
desu, this is a tricky one. You could make an argument that this story indirectly lead to Spider-Gwen being a thing since Marvel was more than willing to shill a version of Gwen who was more visually marketable (as far as her suit goes) and didn't have the baggage of getting GOBLINED. That said, Marvel also treats Gwen like the Holy Mary and did so even before Sins Past, but that also means you can't really use the character without diluting her importance. With or without the controversy, Gwen was going to get fricked over and at the same time, frick over Peter, since they adore letting her show up whenever they're at their most "House of Ideas" and don't know how to show Peter being regretful.
If anything, Blue, Marvels and Clone Conspiracy did more to shit on Gwen, though the former two did it in a way that made her out to be a Saint who could do no wrong. CC is just shit.
>desu, this is a tricky one.
It's the only time since Gwen's death where she was ever written as anything but perfect and saintly, which automatically makes it the best story she's had since she died. But far too many people WANT the fantasy of perfect and saintly, and start screeching about "cucking" over a time period when Gwen and Peter weren't even together anyway.
It's better than anything Spider-Gwen, too. Hell, Gwen's kids were better characters than Gwen.
Look buddy, I agree that people tended to saint-ify Gwen after her death, and I agree she doesn't have to be Ms Perfect high school sweet heart, but there's a bit of an extreme between that and fricking Green Goblin. And even if you wanted to give her flaws there's no reason at all they had to be so extreme. You can just let her have been a normal person.
>It's better than anything Spider-Gwen, too. Hell, Gwen's kids were better characters than Gwen.
That's the bar we want to web swing over.
>but there's a bit of an extreme between that and fricking Green Goblin.
She didn't know Norman was the Green Goblin. Norman didn't know he was the Green Goblin. This was during his amnesiac phase when he was just her best friend's rich, jacked dad, a captain of industry and a pillar of the community. A bit of a short temper and poor work/life balance, but not really a bad guy.
If she'd actually knowingly screwed a supervillain you'd have a point, but as far as she knew, as far as even he knew, Norman was just a guy. It's not the extreme flaw you're painting it as.
the punisher finding another way to destroy himself and everything he stands for. peter parker for being a shell of himself since he agreed to abandon his wife and murder his child. ghost rider, all versions of him
>bro cletus kasady you might be an insane mass murderer but since this guy might be a good guy i have no choice to team up with you for the greater good
is this Toxin's origin?
>character assassination in comics
practically all of Marvel's female characters after 2009
>its bad because i cant jerk off to it
thats not a valid critique
Remember when for 4 runs in a row they kept trying to make Cykes the villain and only ended up making him more and more right? Then compared him to fricking hitler
>only ended up making him more and more right?
>X-Men fans continue to be delusional
>Then compared him to fricking hitler
You're right, after the end of AvX that's an unfair comparison. Unfair to Hitler.