They're an outmoded allegory that's lost all cohesion due to the constant corporate tug-of-war. Krakoa is totally off the rails because Marvel wants to appeal to every queer on Twitter who says their ultimate fantasy is buying a giant house for all of their poor artist friends to live in rent-free.
I mean, yeah it's this but they're getting it all out of their system for the eventual return to archetype when they go MCU.
Will they be able to do it? Maybe if "victim" ceases to be the coolest thing to be. They're probably trying to hit the crest of the next cultural wave when people start taking responsibility for lifting themselves up.
They've been a fricking mess since their inception but holy frick has the last decade+ been fricking rough. It's baffling that the current shit makes AvX era X-Men look good.
Better than baseline humans. The next step in evolution and as such something that should be encouraged and accelerate as much as possible. Only an idiot would be against his species getting better.
As a concept I like the differentiation between Organic super powered beings and scientifically created ones (FF vs X-men) but I think they're in a strange spot in current marvel. In the early X-men runs the X-men were seen as heroes alongside the Avengers/FF they even had statues dedicated to them and were fawned over by some members of the public. There's a sort of disconnect now between why the Avengers, who arguably have caused more world ending events to occur, are beloved by the public but the X-men are still hated. I get that a 13 year old can wake up one day and get "oops i accidentally killed my entire town" powers but there is actual difference between that and Peter Parker getting spider-powers except that one won the lottery and the other lost. X-men in their modern incarnation work better when they're separate from other heroes imo. Especially when you hit the level at now where they can fully teraform a planet and live in space or dimension hop to alternate realities, there is no real reason they need to make it work on an earth that hates them when they can easily move to a world that would accept them. There's also the problem of mutants being rare. It'd be one thing if the public hated them because 1/5 people are mutants and of those 1/5 maybe 30-40% go on to become criminals/mercenaries etc with their powers. But when they're kept so rare that their entire species can live on a small island the world fearing them as a whole vs the scary ones (Magneto etc) doesn't make so much sense.
One word, accountability. When shit hits the fan that reflects badly on them, groups like the Fantastic Four and Avengers are generally there to answer, even if nobody likes the answers they give. The X-men, though, generally never stay except to lecture and backsass anyone who wants to shittalk them and their decisions. It's why heroes like Spider-Man have historically had shitty luck with the press, why Bruce Banner is constantly mistrusted, why civil war even happened, and why the Punisher spits on everyone when they try to lecture him on 'going too far'. The X-men have basically positioned themselves, fairly or not, as the sole arbiters of mutant problems/relations, and act like they answer to no one. And no, this wasn't how they always acted. In the early days, they were sane enough to not act this way because they understood the fact they weren't saints themselves due to hiding away their own mutant identities for the safety of the younger generations living in their mansion, and the fact that they should arguably be on the same side as the other caped heroes. But somewhere along the line, they just got stuck up their fricking asses about mutant rights thanks to the writers, and they have yet to come down from their high horse over it. And they probably never will.
What this anon said. The Avengers and FF will engage the public, for better or worse, on the shit they get involved with, while the X-Men will tell them to frick off and that it's none of their business, despite the fact that their business has exactly to do with the public's safety. People tend to look down on groups that directly endanger their lives, get huffy about it when confronted, and tell them that their concerns don't matter.
I remember back then they held themselves to at least some kind of moral standard even if they weren't trying to be public figures. They didn't do press conferences and shit, well sometimes Xavier gave academic lectures, but they at least had a sense of morality and standards.
Yeah. I can't help but feel that the kind of words that Cyclops or any of the X-men would have said during the 80s about how to work towards Xavier's dream would get them branded as race traitors today, despite it being an even harsher and arguably braver stance than just "Look out for your own first before worrying about the rest of humanity".
>are beloved by the public
For a long time they weren't. They'd be shit on for anything bad shit they caused just like the rest of them, it's just that modern stories don't bother with that anymore because they're too decompressed.
Fricking adore the Claremont era, the Messiah trilogy, the original cartoon, many of the games and some of the movies. I can't get into any of the comics made after Claremont & Lee's X-Men #3. The Krakoa era is terrible.
I think the worst lingering effect of Morrisons run was his decision that we needed to regularly see the adventures of stomach churning abominations, instead of just beautiful people with beautiful people problems
I have a love/hate relationship with them. On the plus side >great lore >GOAT characters >tons of cool powers and designs
So you've got all the good ingredients. Cyclops, Magneto, Xavier, Logan, Jean, Rogue, Emma, Beast and so on make for great protagonists. Then you have some very cool antagonists like Apocalypse, Sinister and so on, with a great backdrop in the Celestials, Shi'ar, Hellfire Club, etc, with some of the coolest powers around. Nothing could go wrong. But... >supremely moronic allegory that makes 0 sense >have become the most insufferable c**ts in fiction
When they went from 50s Atomic Age "next step in evolution" to walking WMDs blowing up a school every time they got a boner, and pretending that jelly-man is a "homosexual Superior", is when the books went off the rails and never recovered. Mutants should genuinely be the "next step" but be a tiny, tiny minority, have actually useful yet sometimes destructive powers, and also be smarter, stronger, more beautiful. Mutants being 90% ugly monstrosities and 10% gods, existing as an allegory for the pet victim of the day, and then going out of their way to say that wanting a cure for your chainsaw lava arms is a hate crime, means the franchise doesn't know what the Hell it's doing.
I've been soured on them for the past few years. I still collect the Omnis of the main runs, but I've definitely stopped liking them as much as I did when I was younger and they were my favourite superteam. I've got too much nostalgia to fully sever my ties with them, but I definitely don't "like" them anymore, except certain characters divorced from the stories and seen isolated and somewhat superficially.
Exactly. If muties were 11/10 gods and the problem revolved around some of them wanting to get it over with and kill the humans, and others playing tard-wranglers with schmucks being afraid of what'll happen to them, it'd work. As it stands it's abominations pretending they're gods.
>mutants should be gods
The original concept for X-Men was them being on a low powerlevel and being a heroic version of a minor villain team like Sinister Six, that a sole hero like Thor or Spider-Man could take on their own.
It's really hard to be sympathetic to them sometimes. The cure thing always bugged me when they know there's plenty of deforming if not straight up dangerous and deadly mutations. As the good guys they should certainly always strive to FIND A BETTER WAY but you get stupid shit like them calling each other cowards or saying dumb shit like YOU AIN'T NOT TRUE SCOT'S X-MAN if you don't want to be a monster.
I like the X-Men when they don't really cross over with the other marvel comics catelogs/ properties.
I think I prefer them confined to their own continuity or universe.
I know this can be rather difficult given how intertwined some of their backgrounds are.
I think I would make a pretty based XMCU within the confines of its own continuity.
Brotherhood, Sentinels, Apocalypse.
Main roster would be blue & gold teams plus nightcrawler. Shit would be cash.
To make the fear/hatred of mutants make sense, all you need is to >establish that the majority of mutants aren't powerful and can be taken down with folks with guns >establish that each generation has higher chance of producing a mutant with planet busting powers at birth
And here we have a minority that aren't walking gods and are oppressed despite many of their individuals not being dangerous by themselves.
I have lost count how many genocide attempts have been done on them by now. Like I'm pretty sure its past the double digit mark now.
I have also lost count how many attempts at a mutant ethnostate (or would it be a specist-state?) that all failed miserably.
But the funniest part is how aggressively hard Disney tried to genocide them OUT of universe out of a petty desire to get rid of anything they didn't own the movie rights for in the comics.
It came up a few times in the comics, but I remember it most vividly from the cartoon. But there's this bit where the sentinels, predictably, start turning on their human creators because as they saw it, powers aside, there was no distinction between humans and mutants. The allegory stuff was always a big deal but it always felt more... I guess the word I want is mature, when used like this. It provides context and set up for the heroic adventures and maybe gives you something to mull over. The X-men by all rights would consider themselves humans. Now they went full in on the homosexual superior train to levels even Brother hood Magnto would find comical. They've basically accepted their enemies ideology while given up their moral compass, giving up on the dream of peaceful cohabitation and all for what? What's the big narrative pay off now? It doesn't feel good.
They didn't give up anything. There is difference between X-Men and mutants. X-Men currently is only the Cyclops-led team. Krakoa is an island of MUTANTS, not only X-Men
Kill mutants. Behead mutants. Roundhouse kick a mutant into the concrete. Slam dunk a mutant baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy mutants. Defecate in a mutant's food. Launch mutants into the sun. Stir fry mutants in a wok. Toss mutants into active volcanoes. Urinate into a mutant's gas tank. Judo throw mutant's into a wood chipper. Twist mutants heads off. Report mutants to the IRS. Karate chop mutants in half. Curb stomp pregnant mutants. Trap mutants in quicksand. Crush mutants in the trash compactor. Liquefy mutants in a vat of acid. Eat mutants. Dissect mutants. Exterminate mutants in the gas chamber. Stomp mutants skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate mutants in the oven. Lobotomize mutants. Mandatory abortions for mutants. Grind mutant fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown mutants in fried chicken grease. Vaporize mutants with a ray gun. Kick old mutants down the stairs. Feed mutants to alligators. Slice mutants with a katana.
Was is Grant Morrison that first decided that most mutants should be physical abominations? I would love any excuse to shit on that man right about now.
Ugly mutants always existed but he was the first one to put them front and centre in the school and regular wallpaper in the titles. Marvel tried to make Marrow and Maggot happen in the 90's on the main team, they were reviled and quickly given the boot.
Never cared for mutants. Never read much. Seems like easy cash for Marvel though. I'm happy they kind of have their own corner of the universe and aren't in other books (non-mutant) that I do enjoy.
Overrated, terrible allegory for racism, them being the next step in evolution makes zero fricking sense. One of the worst fanbase in comics. It's hilarious that b***hed about the Inhumans stepping on their toes when the X-men took over Marvel UK, ripped off the inhumans in krakoa, constantly wave their dick in cosmic, magic, and whatever the frick else. Glad Clea got the SS title despite X-gays begging for it to begging for it to be Magik. Constantly going around with a holier and shitting on other heroes for not doing enough for mutants. Every non x-character has to be an ooc butthole to uphold their narrative.
I've truly loved the X-Men for as long as I can remember. X-Force, X-Factor, the X-Statix, and every other X-Men spin-off too. But as the years go by, I can't help but feel as if they're broken, or outdated. How can they claim to want equality and co-existence with humanity while also claiming to be our genetic superiors? How are oppressed groups meant to relate to them if they live in a mansion, or on a nigh-utopian island? How are we meant to believe that the fear and hatred they receive is unwarranted when most of them are extremely dangerous, have a history of immorality, or both?
That's why I want them to wipe the slate clean. I'm not talking about a reboot, or a retcon, or even a "back-to-basics" book. I want to do away with the main cast for a while, and replace them with OCs ala Giant-Size X-Men #1.
Foolish and outdated as it is, I think secret identities need to make a comeback. Or at least superheroes need to have a strong degree of separation from their work life, especially groups like the X-men. They keep trying to push the whole mutant culture thing by essentially subsuming their normal names and clothes with their superhero identities and spandex, and it just makes them come off as people who literally have no life outside of their jobs.
Krakoa is completely justified due to all the genocide attempts from Marvel'sl humanity
the genocide attempts will continue until psychics learn boundaries
> YOUR THOUGHTS WERE SCREAMING ON THE SURFACE
yeah nobody believes you emma, all of you c**ts go straight to the master mold
Based, the genocide will continue until there are no more telepaths
Unpopular but I agree. The mutants deserve a safe haven.
I'm SICK of these MUGGAS, and their MUGGA FRICKING BULLSHIT.
the GENOICDE is justified because those muggafrickers are a bunch of RACIST GENE SUPREMACISTS.
Remove.
They're an outmoded allegory that's lost all cohesion due to the constant corporate tug-of-war. Krakoa is totally off the rails because Marvel wants to appeal to every queer on Twitter who says their ultimate fantasy is buying a giant house for all of their poor artist friends to live in rent-free.
I mean, yeah it's this but they're getting it all out of their system for the eventual return to archetype when they go MCU.
Will they be able to do it? Maybe if "victim" ceases to be the coolest thing to be. They're probably trying to hit the crest of the next cultural wave when people start taking responsibility for lifting themselves up.
As a kid, I loved the X-men. But as an adult, I hate them gor what they have become.
Cool concept that lost all the coolness factor when they tried to make it far more than "X-gene = superpowers"
They've been a fricking mess since their inception but holy frick has the last decade+ been fricking rough. It's baffling that the current shit makes AvX era X-Men look good.
Hahahaha no. Go frick yourself you homosexual
Better than baseline humans. The next step in evolution and as such something that should be encouraged and accelerate as much as possible. Only an idiot would be against his species getting better.
>The next step in evolution
Captain America is a much better example of that, not Tapir Boy, Jellyfish Girl, or Hand for a Face Dude.
And yes, I'm aware that's not how evolution works.
FOR THE PRESERVATION OF OUR BLUE AND PURE WORLD
I don't like Marvel
As a concept I like the differentiation between Organic super powered beings and scientifically created ones (FF vs X-men) but I think they're in a strange spot in current marvel. In the early X-men runs the X-men were seen as heroes alongside the Avengers/FF they even had statues dedicated to them and were fawned over by some members of the public. There's a sort of disconnect now between why the Avengers, who arguably have caused more world ending events to occur, are beloved by the public but the X-men are still hated. I get that a 13 year old can wake up one day and get "oops i accidentally killed my entire town" powers but there is actual difference between that and Peter Parker getting spider-powers except that one won the lottery and the other lost. X-men in their modern incarnation work better when they're separate from other heroes imo. Especially when you hit the level at now where they can fully teraform a planet and live in space or dimension hop to alternate realities, there is no real reason they need to make it work on an earth that hates them when they can easily move to a world that would accept them. There's also the problem of mutants being rare. It'd be one thing if the public hated them because 1/5 people are mutants and of those 1/5 maybe 30-40% go on to become criminals/mercenaries etc with their powers. But when they're kept so rare that their entire species can live on a small island the world fearing them as a whole vs the scary ones (Magneto etc) doesn't make so much sense.
One word, accountability. When shit hits the fan that reflects badly on them, groups like the Fantastic Four and Avengers are generally there to answer, even if nobody likes the answers they give. The X-men, though, generally never stay except to lecture and backsass anyone who wants to shittalk them and their decisions. It's why heroes like Spider-Man have historically had shitty luck with the press, why Bruce Banner is constantly mistrusted, why civil war even happened, and why the Punisher spits on everyone when they try to lecture him on 'going too far'. The X-men have basically positioned themselves, fairly or not, as the sole arbiters of mutant problems/relations, and act like they answer to no one. And no, this wasn't how they always acted. In the early days, they were sane enough to not act this way because they understood the fact they weren't saints themselves due to hiding away their own mutant identities for the safety of the younger generations living in their mansion, and the fact that they should arguably be on the same side as the other caped heroes. But somewhere along the line, they just got stuck up their fricking asses about mutant rights thanks to the writers, and they have yet to come down from their high horse over it. And they probably never will.
What this anon said. The Avengers and FF will engage the public, for better or worse, on the shit they get involved with, while the X-Men will tell them to frick off and that it's none of their business, despite the fact that their business has exactly to do with the public's safety. People tend to look down on groups that directly endanger their lives, get huffy about it when confronted, and tell them that their concerns don't matter.
I remember back then they held themselves to at least some kind of moral standard even if they weren't trying to be public figures. They didn't do press conferences and shit, well sometimes Xavier gave academic lectures, but they at least had a sense of morality and standards.
Yeah. I can't help but feel that the kind of words that Cyclops or any of the X-men would have said during the 80s about how to work towards Xavier's dream would get them branded as race traitors today, despite it being an even harsher and arguably braver stance than just "Look out for your own first before worrying about the rest of humanity".
I just want my superheros to act like superheroes
>are beloved by the public
For a long time they weren't. They'd be shit on for anything bad shit they caused just like the rest of them, it's just that modern stories don't bother with that anymore because they're too decompressed.
Still the best Marvel has to offer
I think that they peaked a looooong time ago and that the last 30 years or so should be considered a fever dream
They've been around long enough to see themselves become the villains
Fricking adore the Claremont era, the Messiah trilogy, the original cartoon, many of the games and some of the movies. I can't get into any of the comics made after Claremont & Lee's X-Men #3. The Krakoa era is terrible.
Unfortunately, they can't coexist peacefully with humans. Still wish I had a harem of mutant b***hes cloned from the X-Women though.
I'm like the bad guy in the Disney Hunchback film.
If I can't bang them then they die.
I think the worst lingering effect of Morrisons run was his decision that we needed to regularly see the adventures of stomach churning abominations, instead of just beautiful people with beautiful people problems
I have a love/hate relationship with them. On the plus side
>great lore
>GOAT characters
>tons of cool powers and designs
So you've got all the good ingredients. Cyclops, Magneto, Xavier, Logan, Jean, Rogue, Emma, Beast and so on make for great protagonists. Then you have some very cool antagonists like Apocalypse, Sinister and so on, with a great backdrop in the Celestials, Shi'ar, Hellfire Club, etc, with some of the coolest powers around. Nothing could go wrong. But...
>supremely moronic allegory that makes 0 sense
>have become the most insufferable c**ts in fiction
When they went from 50s Atomic Age "next step in evolution" to walking WMDs blowing up a school every time they got a boner, and pretending that jelly-man is a "homosexual Superior", is when the books went off the rails and never recovered. Mutants should genuinely be the "next step" but be a tiny, tiny minority, have actually useful yet sometimes destructive powers, and also be smarter, stronger, more beautiful. Mutants being 90% ugly monstrosities and 10% gods, existing as an allegory for the pet victim of the day, and then going out of their way to say that wanting a cure for your chainsaw lava arms is a hate crime, means the franchise doesn't know what the Hell it's doing.
I've been soured on them for the past few years. I still collect the Omnis of the main runs, but I've definitely stopped liking them as much as I did when I was younger and they were my favourite superteam. I've got too much nostalgia to fully sever my ties with them, but I definitely don't "like" them anymore, except certain characters divorced from the stories and seen isolated and somewhat superficially.
Exactly. If muties were 11/10 gods and the problem revolved around some of them wanting to get it over with and kill the humans, and others playing tard-wranglers with schmucks being afraid of what'll happen to them, it'd work. As it stands it's abominations pretending they're gods.
>mutants should be gods
The original concept for X-Men was them being on a low powerlevel and being a heroic version of a minor villain team like Sinister Six, that a sole hero like Thor or Spider-Man could take on their own.
It's really hard to be sympathetic to them sometimes. The cure thing always bugged me when they know there's plenty of deforming if not straight up dangerous and deadly mutations. As the good guys they should certainly always strive to FIND A BETTER WAY but you get stupid shit like them calling each other cowards or saying dumb shit like YOU AIN'T NOT TRUE SCOT'S X-MAN if you don't want to be a monster.
All fricking muggas must fricking hang. (Except the cute ones in the skimpy outfits)
I like the X-Men when they don't really cross over with the other marvel comics catelogs/ properties.
I think I prefer them confined to their own continuity or universe.
I know this can be rather difficult given how intertwined some of their backgrounds are.
I think I would make a pretty based XMCU within the confines of its own continuity.
Brotherhood, Sentinels, Apocalypse.
Main roster would be blue & gold teams plus nightcrawler. Shit would be cash.
To make the fear/hatred of mutants make sense, all you need is to
>establish that the majority of mutants aren't powerful and can be taken down with folks with guns
>establish that each generation has higher chance of producing a mutant with planet busting powers at birth
And here we have a minority that aren't walking gods and are oppressed despite many of their individuals not being dangerous by themselves.
I have lost count how many genocide attempts have been done on them by now. Like I'm pretty sure its past the double digit mark now.
I have also lost count how many attempts at a mutant ethnostate (or would it be a specist-state?) that all failed miserably.
But the funniest part is how aggressively hard Disney tried to genocide them OUT of universe out of a petty desire to get rid of anything they didn't own the movie rights for in the comics.
I consider X-books marvel's all-time greatest output. Unironically, or should I say, Uncannily?
It came up a few times in the comics, but I remember it most vividly from the cartoon. But there's this bit where the sentinels, predictably, start turning on their human creators because as they saw it, powers aside, there was no distinction between humans and mutants. The allegory stuff was always a big deal but it always felt more... I guess the word I want is mature, when used like this. It provides context and set up for the heroic adventures and maybe gives you something to mull over. The X-men by all rights would consider themselves humans. Now they went full in on the homosexual superior train to levels even Brother hood Magnto would find comical. They've basically accepted their enemies ideology while given up their moral compass, giving up on the dream of peaceful cohabitation and all for what? What's the big narrative pay off now? It doesn't feel good.
They didn't give up anything. There is difference between X-Men and mutants. X-Men currently is only the Cyclops-led team. Krakoa is an island of MUTANTS, not only X-Men
Kill mutants. Behead mutants. Roundhouse kick a mutant into the concrete. Slam dunk a mutant baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy mutants. Defecate in a mutant's food. Launch mutants into the sun. Stir fry mutants in a wok. Toss mutants into active volcanoes. Urinate into a mutant's gas tank. Judo throw mutant's into a wood chipper. Twist mutants heads off. Report mutants to the IRS. Karate chop mutants in half. Curb stomp pregnant mutants. Trap mutants in quicksand. Crush mutants in the trash compactor. Liquefy mutants in a vat of acid. Eat mutants. Dissect mutants. Exterminate mutants in the gas chamber. Stomp mutants skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate mutants in the oven. Lobotomize mutants. Mandatory abortions for mutants. Grind mutant fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown mutants in fried chicken grease. Vaporize mutants with a ray gun. Kick old mutants down the stairs. Feed mutants to alligators. Slice mutants with a katana.
i like them
Was is Grant Morrison that first decided that most mutants should be physical abominations? I would love any excuse to shit on that man right about now.
Nah, Claremont was tossing that ball around forever with the morlocks.
Ugly mutants always existed but he was the first one to put them front and centre in the school and regular wallpaper in the titles. Marvel tried to make Marrow and Maggot happen in the 90's on the main team, they were reviled and quickly given the boot.
All psychic mutants should be immediately killed
anon, do you have a death-gay-wish?
I once talked to a chick at my uni who argued that maybe the X-Men would work better as a disability allegory. Thought that was a neat thing.
Never cared for mutants. Never read much. Seems like easy cash for Marvel though. I'm happy they kind of have their own corner of the universe and aren't in other books (non-mutant) that I do enjoy.
shit
They should all die horrible deaths. Mutants deserve nothing less.
Overrated, terrible allegory for racism, them being the next step in evolution makes zero fricking sense. One of the worst fanbase in comics. It's hilarious that b***hed about the Inhumans stepping on their toes when the X-men took over Marvel UK, ripped off the inhumans in krakoa, constantly wave their dick in cosmic, magic, and whatever the frick else. Glad Clea got the SS title despite X-gays begging for it to begging for it to be Magik. Constantly going around with a holier and shitting on other heroes for not doing enough for mutants. Every non x-character has to be an ooc butthole to uphold their narrative.
They are so cool I wish the OG Gwen Stacy had turned out o be a mutant
I've truly loved the X-Men for as long as I can remember. X-Force, X-Factor, the X-Statix, and every other X-Men spin-off too. But as the years go by, I can't help but feel as if they're broken, or outdated. How can they claim to want equality and co-existence with humanity while also claiming to be our genetic superiors? How are oppressed groups meant to relate to them if they live in a mansion, or on a nigh-utopian island? How are we meant to believe that the fear and hatred they receive is unwarranted when most of them are extremely dangerous, have a history of immorality, or both?
That's why I want them to wipe the slate clean. I'm not talking about a reboot, or a retcon, or even a "back-to-basics" book. I want to do away with the main cast for a while, and replace them with OCs ala Giant-Size X-Men #1.
Foolish and outdated as it is, I think secret identities need to make a comeback. Or at least superheroes need to have a strong degree of separation from their work life, especially groups like the X-men. They keep trying to push the whole mutant culture thing by essentially subsuming their normal names and clothes with their superhero identities and spandex, and it just makes them come off as people who literally have no life outside of their jobs.
Some of them are alright.
I'M FROM EARTH AND I SAY KILL 'EM ALL!
Magneto was always right and the only good future for mankind must be built on the normies burning to ash and the 'mutants' taking control.
Get off Cinemaphile Erik, you're drunk. This is all your fault anyway.