Sandworms are filter feeders eating sand plankton that become sand trout that become sandworms. The sand plankton eat the bodies of dead sandworms. It's one organism endlessly cannibalizing itself. Not as moronic as laser-shield nukes but close.
It makes sense if the plankton are photosynthesizing, which seems to be implied by there name. That way its one efficient self contained cycle of energy through the cannibalization but a little bit of extra energy is added in through photosynthesis. Its basically the same concept as the stillsuit. Like pottery.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I think they're partially chemosynthesis too, especially given they sequester water
which would explain why all attempts to get the sandworms off planet just fail, you need Arrakis or something close enough of a simulacrum for the whole cycle to work
4 months ago
Anonymous
1) they would have figured out a chemical process to synthesizes spice.
2) it's meaningless anyway because no attempt to ban the usage of AI for FTL via a religious edict would ever work.
stop talking about the lore, it just makes the books obviously more second-rate.
4 months ago
Anonymous
they eventually do synthesize spice
but all attempts to do so were restricted under the rule of the Emperors because artificial spice would have destroyed one of the most important levers of power he had
And the ban was not a religious edict enforced from top down, it was a bottom-up massive cultural movement with humanity breaking free from a self-inflicted gilded cage
4 months ago
Anonymous
>they eventually do synthesize spice
Isn't this tens of thousands of years in the future from the setting of the first book?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Just looked it up and it's about 5000 years from Paul arriving on Arrakis until the Bene Tleilaxu synthesize the spice.
4 months ago
Anonymous
3000+ something years, after Leto dies and the entire galaxy shatters into a shitshow they develop synthetic spice pretty fast out of pure necessity
before that any attempt at creating synthetic spice was a guaranteed ticket to have your planet be massacred
the most people dared do was try and transport a sandworm off planet to set up a private breeding project, but the only reason that was barely tolerated despite being illegal as frick was because all attempts guaranteed failed
Basically control over spice was important enough to commit genocide just to maintain, people didn't invent synthetic spice because it was somehow magically impossible, they didn't do it because it would get you fricked up
Once central authority was gone synthetic spice spread pretty fast, intentionally so because Leto sought to destroy all means of maintaining central control over humanity ever again as part of his thousands year long gambit
Dune in general is more a story about cultures than technology and the former shapes the latter more than the other way around
the embarrassing thing is that we're expected to take this shit seriously decades later when Herbert clearly spent about the same amount of time thinking about it as it took to write, despite his claims of "extensive research".
>It's one organism endlessly cannibalizing itself. Not as moronic as laser-shield nukes but close.
It's an alien species. It's allowed to be weird and Dune makes it clear the process is not fully understood even by the Fremen or God Emperor Leto.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It is theorized that the worms are some kind of remaining AI from Butler's Jihad. So they may be artificial. Which could explain why they can bond to a human body.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Elaborate on that theory pls.
4 months ago
Anonymous
the AI thing is kinda dumb, it's more likely they are a form of biotech though
4 months ago
Anonymous
I always assumed they simply evolved on Arrakis and caused a catastrophic natural climate shift in the process.
4 months ago
Anonymous
the AI thing is kinda dumb, it's more likely they are a form of biotech though
There are no aliens in the Dune universe except for the worms - which seems out of place. Even after the great spread under Leto, humans find no alien life. So it may just be that the worms are artificially man or machine made. Why else would they have psycho-effects on humans if they were not somehow related to us?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>There are no aliens in the Dune universe except for the worms -
What about the other native species of Arrakis? There are several. Were they all introduced years ago?
4 months ago
Anonymous
I am no expert on this topic, but most of these plants and animals seem to come from Terra. Mice, hawks, bushes...nothing really alien there. Except for the worms.
4 months ago
Anonymous
House Harkonnen made all their money by harvesting and selling “whale fur”. In the Dune universe creatures are named like in Star Trek, by their nearest approximate Earth analogue. They’re not actually from Earth.
4 months ago
Anonymous
That's not from the original books.
4 months ago
Anonymous
that doesn't mean that they can't be lost human biotech that got out of control
They should have made the bristles blue so that the the mouth looks like a blue iris, thus highlighting the worms' relationship with the spice (and also making it look less like a gaping anus). Huge wasted opportunity.
it requires you being capable of surviving having half your bodymass be spice and spice-derived chemicals just to initiate it
without beyond Bene Gesserit levels of internal chemistry control you overdose before even getting to within 0.1% the required concentrations
Paul could have done it, but you need someone at least on his level to pull it off
Yes. And to add on that - why would the Fremen - who worship the worm as a god - want to turn Arrakis into another Terra? That kills the worm. It's completely idiotic.
They don't worship it like a God, they worship God like a God
they revere the worm yes, but they revere Paul even harder after he leads them to their promised skullfricking of the galaxy
Even if that is so - Shai Hulud! - the Fremen and imperial ecologist Keynes are too stupid to understand that watering Arrakis will doom their way of life and the worm.
Which fails. The worms all die (except one). Either the Fremen are utterly stupid or Herbert didn't think it through. He took a lot of drugs anyway, so you can't take it all too serious. It is obviously LSD influenced.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Which fails. The worms all die (except one).
That's thanks to Leto II continuing to make it happen, after the Baron-ridden Alia went too far, anon.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Leto II was intentionally killing off the worms anon
he wanted absolute spice control and intentionally make it a limited resource which he handed out increasingly less to make the factions of the universe both reliant on him and at the same time desperate enough to risk synthetic spice and navigator AI experiments behind his back
That Ix and Tleilaxu were literally primed to pop off their stuff the minute he died was a feature, not a bug
their discipline is based on the fact they all have a lifetime mission to make life better. And that's the only way to achieve it, it's not super complicated.
They revere the Worm and its impact on their environment. But they are not knowledge of the impacts of their own actions.
The reason the Fremen can defeat Harkonnen and Sardauker troops is that their environment is the harshest known in the universe. They are very proud of their toughness, warrior-lifestyle and lifestyle. Yet they want to turn it all around - which makes zero sense.
Hubris. The Sardaukar lost because they became enamoured of luxury. Even a decade later in Messiah the Fremen are getting corrupted with only a few rebels staying true to the old ways.
I do find it funny that Stilgar's boomer "kids have it too easy these days back in my day" old man crankiness is ultimately vindicated in the worst possible way.
Shai-Hulud's world is a curse for the Freemen :
No water, no irrigation to build farms, and live a descent live.
But it's also a gift :
Shai-Hulud gives the Freemen the spice, the only way to perform hyperspace travel safely.
So for milleniae, the Freemen tried to reconquered there world stolen by the Emperor and the Houses.
They were just waiting for the right guy to lead them to that ultimate war.
Is it ever explained why house Corrino didn't just keep the Dune for themselves and ruled the Empire from there? Maybe settle it with Sardaukar and make it princely appanage, if it's too far from the political center of the Empire
Because there's nothing to be gained by ruling it personally other than the discontent from all the other houses
If instead he subcontracts it to another house he has an incredibly powerful boon to make them loyal lest he withdraws it AND paints a target on THEIR back, isolating them politically from the other great houses due to jealousy
It's not like they can actually risk doing anything silly with Arrakis other than lord their possession of it over other houses and get rich off of it, Navigator's guild is still the only way you're getting spice off of the planet and make too much of a stink and the Sardaukar get sent to clean you up
It's what they shit that matters
They need to eat to shit and the only thing in the desert is those little mouse things
Read the book moron
I'm illiterate
despite Herberts being ecologist whole worm cycle is one the most moronic things ive read
Read the “man in the arena”. It’s a 3 min read
why?
It’s written like a moron wrote it
Explain to us
Sandworms are filter feeders eating sand plankton that become sand trout that become sandworms. The sand plankton eat the bodies of dead sandworms. It's one organism endlessly cannibalizing itself. Not as moronic as laser-shield nukes but close.
It makes sense if the plankton are photosynthesizing, which seems to be implied by there name. That way its one efficient self contained cycle of energy through the cannibalization but a little bit of extra energy is added in through photosynthesis. Its basically the same concept as the stillsuit. Like pottery.
I think they're partially chemosynthesis too, especially given they sequester water
which would explain why all attempts to get the sandworms off planet just fail, you need Arrakis or something close enough of a simulacrum for the whole cycle to work
1) they would have figured out a chemical process to synthesizes spice.
2) it's meaningless anyway because no attempt to ban the usage of AI for FTL via a religious edict would ever work.
stop talking about the lore, it just makes the books obviously more second-rate.
they eventually do synthesize spice
but all attempts to do so were restricted under the rule of the Emperors because artificial spice would have destroyed one of the most important levers of power he had
And the ban was not a religious edict enforced from top down, it was a bottom-up massive cultural movement with humanity breaking free from a self-inflicted gilded cage
>they eventually do synthesize spice
Isn't this tens of thousands of years in the future from the setting of the first book?
Just looked it up and it's about 5000 years from Paul arriving on Arrakis until the Bene Tleilaxu synthesize the spice.
3000+ something years, after Leto dies and the entire galaxy shatters into a shitshow they develop synthetic spice pretty fast out of pure necessity
before that any attempt at creating synthetic spice was a guaranteed ticket to have your planet be massacred
the most people dared do was try and transport a sandworm off planet to set up a private breeding project, but the only reason that was barely tolerated despite being illegal as frick was because all attempts guaranteed failed
Basically control over spice was important enough to commit genocide just to maintain, people didn't invent synthetic spice because it was somehow magically impossible, they didn't do it because it would get you fricked up
Once central authority was gone synthetic spice spread pretty fast, intentionally so because Leto sought to destroy all means of maintaining central control over humanity ever again as part of his thousands year long gambit
Dune in general is more a story about cultures than technology and the former shapes the latter more than the other way around
the embarrassing thing is that we're expected to take this shit seriously decades later when Herbert clearly spent about the same amount of time thinking about it as it took to write, despite his claims of "extensive research".
>It's one organism endlessly cannibalizing itself. Not as moronic as laser-shield nukes but close.
It's an alien species. It's allowed to be weird and Dune makes it clear the process is not fully understood even by the Fremen or God Emperor Leto.
It is theorized that the worms are some kind of remaining AI from Butler's Jihad. So they may be artificial. Which could explain why they can bond to a human body.
Elaborate on that theory pls.
the AI thing is kinda dumb, it's more likely they are a form of biotech though
I always assumed they simply evolved on Arrakis and caused a catastrophic natural climate shift in the process.
There are no aliens in the Dune universe except for the worms - which seems out of place. Even after the great spread under Leto, humans find no alien life. So it may just be that the worms are artificially man or machine made. Why else would they have psycho-effects on humans if they were not somehow related to us?
>There are no aliens in the Dune universe except for the worms -
What about the other native species of Arrakis? There are several. Were they all introduced years ago?
I am no expert on this topic, but most of these plants and animals seem to come from Terra. Mice, hawks, bushes...nothing really alien there. Except for the worms.
House Harkonnen made all their money by harvesting and selling “whale fur”. In the Dune universe creatures are named like in Star Trek, by their nearest approximate Earth analogue. They’re not actually from Earth.
That's not from the original books.
that doesn't mean that they can't be lost human biotech that got out of control
I am not disagreeing. It's all just speculation.
spice is not shit, it's a byproduct of the lifestage where thousands of sandtrout become a sandworm
It is literally the metabolic waste of the sandtrout
Esoteric Nicocado?
sand
I think other smaller worms
Sand
They literally eat sand and metabolize it.
This doesn't tell the whole story.
Minerals in the sand.
They don’t eat anything at all. They listen to what the people have to say. And that’s what no one did.
They should have made the bristles blue so that the the mouth looks like a blue iris, thus highlighting the worms' relationship with the spice (and also making it look less like a gaping anus). Huge wasted opportunity.
But they shit the spice. Doesn't that mean their buttholes should be blue instead?
They really should have.
This lifeless desert movie could use a little color.
>LE BLUE AND ORANGE IS LE PRETTY
bravo, Cinemaphile
why are you trying to be all scientific about giant worms that swim in sand
Could another person merge with the sand trout if they wanted?
it requires you being capable of surviving having half your bodymass be spice and spice-derived chemicals just to initiate it
without beyond Bene Gesserit levels of internal chemistry control you overdose before even getting to within 0.1% the required concentrations
Paul could have done it, but you need someone at least on his level to pull it off
Frank Herbert was very bad at biology
Yes. And to add on that - why would the Fremen - who worship the worm as a god - want to turn Arrakis into another Terra? That kills the worm. It's completely idiotic.
They don't worship it like a God, they worship God like a God
they revere the worm yes, but they revere Paul even harder after he leads them to their promised skullfricking of the galaxy
Even if that is so - Shai Hulud! - the Fremen and imperial ecologist Keynes are too stupid to understand that watering Arrakis will doom their way of life and the worm.
Nah they know, which is why they keep parts of Arrakis intentionally dry to not destroy the worms
Which fails. The worms all die (except one). Either the Fremen are utterly stupid or Herbert didn't think it through. He took a lot of drugs anyway, so you can't take it all too serious. It is obviously LSD influenced.
>Which fails. The worms all die (except one).
That's thanks to Leto II continuing to make it happen, after the Baron-ridden Alia went too far, anon.
Leto II was intentionally killing off the worms anon
he wanted absolute spice control and intentionally make it a limited resource which he handed out increasingly less to make the factions of the universe both reliant on him and at the same time desperate enough to risk synthetic spice and navigator AI experiments behind his back
That Ix and Tleilaxu were literally primed to pop off their stuff the minute he died was a feature, not a bug
>watering Arrakis
Not entirely watering Arrakis.
In the book it is said that they would let a belt of sand around Arrakis's equator to live freely.
their discipline is based on the fact they all have a lifetime mission to make life better. And that's the only way to achieve it, it's not super complicated.
They revere the Worm and its impact on their environment. But they are not knowledge of the impacts of their own actions.
The reason the Fremen can defeat Harkonnen and Sardauker troops is that their environment is the harshest known in the universe. They are very proud of their toughness, warrior-lifestyle and lifestyle. Yet they want to turn it all around - which makes zero sense.
Hubris. The Sardaukar lost because they became enamoured of luxury. Even a decade later in Messiah the Fremen are getting corrupted with only a few rebels staying true to the old ways.
I do find it funny that Stilgar's boomer "kids have it too easy these days back in my day" old man crankiness is ultimately vindicated in the worst possible way.
>Mmmmm worm poop make me smart!
For Shai-Hulud sake ! Read the book.
Shai-Hulud's world is a curse for the Freemen :
No water, no irrigation to build farms, and live a descent live.
But it's also a gift :
Shai-Hulud gives the Freemen the spice, the only way to perform hyperspace travel safely.
So for milleniae, the Freemen tried to reconquered there world stolen by the Emperor and the Houses.
They were just waiting for the right guy to lead them to that ultimate war.
Is it ever explained why house Corrino didn't just keep the Dune for themselves and ruled the Empire from there? Maybe settle it with Sardaukar and make it princely appanage, if it's too far from the political center of the Empire
Dune is a hell of a place to live in.
Especially for the Empire when all the locals want you dead to feed there giant pet.
Because there's nothing to be gained by ruling it personally other than the discontent from all the other houses
If instead he subcontracts it to another house he has an incredibly powerful boon to make them loyal lest he withdraws it AND paints a target on THEIR back, isolating them politically from the other great houses due to jealousy
It's not like they can actually risk doing anything silly with Arrakis other than lord their possession of it over other houses and get rich off of it, Navigator's guild is still the only way you're getting spice off of the planet and make too much of a stink and the Sardaukar get sent to clean you up