BL (boys love) コミック (Ko-mi-ku; Literally Comic) >The Japanese didn't have words gay enough to describe their manga of boys kissing so they went overboard and used English words like "boys love" and "comic book" which are both terms TOO gay to describe their books.
Sad state
>manga >lots of different titles for lots of different audiences, if you don't like one thing you can just pick up anothjer >comics >everything must be inclusive and suitable for everyone at all times, if you don't like it you're a racist chud
Makes sense to me.
>Trying to "appeal to everyone" is absolutely the worst way to go about when making art.
It's what nets you the most revenue. Just look at any illumination movie. Safe, crowd pleasing, easily marketable, highly successful at the box office.
The problem is, you can't just market to one group that obviously isn't the majority of where your sales are coming from while alienating your larger fanbase (like a lot of comics tend to do).
if i were you wager id say hes saying that japanese manga tends to be very specific and niche, lots of options directed at very clear and specific audiences
whereas american comics tend to be broad and similar because its a much smaller industry, so they try to appeal to everyone at once
lol that's the complete opposite of the truth and the reason comics are fricking dead. You can fit enough story in one tanko to make it actually worth reading on its own but you cannot do that in one floppy.
I think what he actually mans is that comics are mostly the same shit with little variety, while manga is both more numerous and more varied in what it does in comparison.
literal morons in this thread, the rainbow isn't gay in this image, it just represents 0-100% >manga is one long continuous story for one particular franchise, making jumping into something simple aside from the "lol 1000 chapters meme" >comic is self-contained adventures within the same franchise, with all kinds of varying timelines, universes, reboots, new author runs etc, making it confusing where to "start"
Yes, but ironically you also get more variety. There's plenty of gay/trans shit if you want that and plenty of regular shit too. It's not like the US where everything has to be everything.
>Variety in what sense?
In genres/scenarios/atmospheres. Just like any other medium, books and video games for examples. >tend to be very formulaic themselves.
They are as formulaic as it is normal for a medium to be. The problem with comics is they are more formulaic and generic than almost any other medium. Manga and BDs don't do anything special, they are just like every other normal medium. Comics look worse in comparison because they feel worse than other mediums and have downfalls specific to them.
Variety in the sense of variety. There are oceans of manga of every imaginable type.
>especially the most popular ones nowadays, tend to be very formulaic
No shit, the most popular stuff is always bland. And when you're looking at just what's in one magazine aimed at one demographic (Shounen Jump) you're going to see a lot of similarities.
The point is manga is much more focused. You have action series, romance, sci-fi, etc and then gay/whatever flavors of all of those. Everyone can find what appeals to them.
>They are as formulaic as it is normal for a medium to be. The problem with comics is they are more formulaic and generic than almost any other medium. Manga and BDs don't do anything special, they are just like every other normal medium. Comics look worse in comparison because they feel worse than other mediums and have downfalls specific to them. >No shit, the most popular stuff is always bland. And when you're looking at just what's in one magazine aimed at one demographic (Shounen Jump) you're going to see a lot of similarities. >The point is manga is much more focused. You have action series, romance, sci-fi, etc and then gay/whatever flavors of all of those. Everyone can find what appeals to them.
Yes but how is that different from western comics? Sure it's limiting if you're only looking at capeshit but there are many other kinds of comics too. Stuff like Saga and Bone, Image tends to publish different genres nowadays. Graphic novels are also a thing. Comics from Europe tend to be weirder and more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
>Sure it's limiting if you're only looking at capeshit but there are many other kinds of comics too.
Yes, but capeshit utterly dominated in America for decades. It's actually a niche now, despite what capeshitters believe, but the damage is done. Other genres continued to flourish in Japan and as a result the mainstream is more varied there. Series like Slam Dunk, for instance, are monster sellers where in America sports comics died ages ago. There's just no contest right now, but it's getting better in America.
>Comics from Europe tend to be weirder and more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
Ha, no. You just don't know what you're talking about. It's fairly clear your knowledge of manga starts and ends with Naruto.
The thing is superhero shit make for for 70% of all the american market comic while shonen, the whole demographic, makes for 25% of all manga. >more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
In a way but also read about Nouvelle manga movement. French artists were surprised that japanese are allowed to publish the stories in mainstream seinen/josei manga that they would have to go indie to publish themselves. Also another advantage, something like Scot Pilgrim that is an "indie comic" has early equivalents which served as inspiration in mainstream manga.
7 months ago
Anonymous
[...] >They are as formulaic as it is normal for a medium to be. The problem with comics is they are more formulaic and generic than almost any other medium. Manga and BDs don't do anything special, they are just like every other normal medium. Comics look worse in comparison because they feel worse than other mediums and have downfalls specific to them. >No shit, the most popular stuff is always bland. And when you're looking at just what's in one magazine aimed at one demographic (Shounen Jump) you're going to see a lot of similarities. >The point is manga is much more focused. You have action series, romance, sci-fi, etc and then gay/whatever flavors of all of those. Everyone can find what appeals to them.
Yes but how is that different from western comics? Sure it's limiting if you're only looking at capeshit but there are many other kinds of comics too. Stuff like Saga and Bone, Image tends to publish different genres nowadays. Graphic novels are also a thing. Comics from Europe tend to be weirder and more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
Also don't confuse that with me shitting on comics . I like some of them but the market could be waaaay more healthier for the fans.
Variety in the sense of variety. There are oceans of manga of every imaginable type.
>especially the most popular ones nowadays, tend to be very formulaic
No shit, the most popular stuff is always bland. And when you're looking at just what's in one magazine aimed at one demographic (Shounen Jump) you're going to see a lot of similarities.
The point is manga is much more focused. You have action series, romance, sci-fi, etc and then gay/whatever flavors of all of those. Everyone can find what appeals to them.
Comics are trying to appeal to everyone and there is less choice than the targeted audience manga does. Its pretty good observation. You check the releases in one day there is a manga about >a young boy fighting monsters >teen girls hanging out at the malt shop >fat gay men >pretty girls almost gay but not quite >femdom >orcs fricking women
What is stopping western comic book industry from copying system from the japanese manga industry. >each magazine costs 5.99 >comes with 20 comics from 20 different authors >weekly/monthly releases >users can rank each comic, and the least liked goes to the chopping block >different magazines for different age groups and niche groups >authors have ownership of their creations
its a good system.
>What is stopping western comic book industry from copying system from the japanese manga industry
The Japanese manga industry operates like normal publishing companies. The big 2 do not. They are different industries with different goals.
I'm not defending the western comics industry, but if you are a capes comics reader, which is most of the direct market, and you want comics to maintain their particular identity which is founded upon a shared universe of company-owned characters, then you can't adopt the Japanese system wholesale. It's an either-or proposition.
Another way to look at the problem is, do you feel the problem with comics is the top down editorial structure, or the current editorial leadership specifically? If you feel it's the former, then you do away with the system. If you feel it's the latter, then the solution is replacing people.
It doesn't have to be the big 2, Dark Horse and Image comics are still players in the industry, I think they have the tools to create a magazine like shonen jump, and Dark Horse already stated that 60% of their revenue comes from licensed manga, at this point they should embrace the japanese business style, and as long they can put the magazines on gas stations, supermarkets and mom'n'pop stores for a cheap price, I'm believe it will be relative success, just make sure use b/w newsprint.
Also, the objective is to create whales, hardcore fans who are going to buy whatever piece of merch no matter the price, see F2P games like Genshin, Action Taimanin and DOTA2.
We don't have magazines here like that because we can't generate circulation numbers of 2.9 million copies in the US (the closest we got with comics led to an industry implosion in the 90s). At typical US circulation number, a b/w magazine of size would cost significantly more than what Japanese customers pay for something like Weekly Shōnen Jump. Japan is still in their golden age of comics, our's is long past (also reading is literally at an all time low in the country, americans just prefer to watch shit over reading).
That's still going to cost way more in the US, especially if it has like 8 seperate titles per issue. Also very few american artists are willing to do a weekly schedule without a lot of assistance.
have ownership of their creations
Barely true in Japan where companies are known to exploit people. You can make a lot of money if you happen to write something ridiculously successful but the company will always have a bigger piece of the pie.
What part of "stuffed with millions of soulless israelites" don't you understand?
It's all about ripping IPs away from their creators like a newborn from its mother and GIMMICKS GIMMICKS GIMMICKS.
>YA LIKE TRANS? CONNER'S TRANS NOW. I HAVE NO FRICKING IDEA HOW TO WRITE THIS BUT I KNOW IT'S HOT! I COULD EVEN WRITE IT TO CRITICIZE THE MOVEMENT IF I CARED, BUT I DON'T BECAUSE I'M JUST A GRUBBY israelite.
THE STORY'S GONNA READ LIKE GETTING STABBED IN THE EYE, BUT IF YOU SAY YOU HATE IT, YOU'RE TRANSPHOBIC! NO ONE'S GONNA READ IT EXCEPT LOYAL READERS WHO I WILL MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY ABUSE AS IS israelite CULTURE.
Magazine anthologies don't work here anymore, if they ever did. Heavy Metal, Mad Magazine, dead. The old black and white horror and scifi magazines all died, as did almost all the old underground comic anthologies. Even the anthologies DC and Marvel tried never made it out the 80s. Even porn magazines from Penthouse Comix didn't live long. It's not like the shit has never been tried.
>copying
the worst part is that the japanese approach is how comics used to be, detective comics 27 had batman sharing his first appearance with nine other stories. superheroes were treated as just one more genre, romance, westerns, adventures, war stories, etc all got their own comics
There's tons of comics that are published every year that aren't related to the big superhero companies, people just don't pay attention to them because they're original ideas and not based on IP. Arguments like these are always shit because they never address the wide margin of an industry, just focusing on the new stuff.
It's like the morons saying movies are dead just because the MCU is trash. Stop watching big Hollywood blockbusters then, go to film festivals and check those movies out. Or watch independent films online, there are loads out right now. Maybe check out foreign films you hear are good.
You'd do any of that if you genuinely wanted to give a medium a chance, but these kind of people don't put any effort and think the popular things represent an entire industry.
>just check the indie stuff
Using this argument all the industries that have ever existed are perfect. You don't like ice cream? Just check this guy that makes indie handmade ice cream. Good, the comic industry and every single one for that matter do not need to change. After all there are always 0.1% of the people that make indie stuff.
DC and Marvel are the leaders of the comic industry. Most of the non-superheroes stuff still exist as a reaction to Marvel and DC and the way they are published and advertised is according to the market that Marvel and DC created. You can't talk about comics in USA without talking about Marvel and DC.
There's such a big dissonance between the visibility of the big two and indie comics that most audiences don't even know the latter exists in the first place.
At this point, it feels more like Kirkman's works dominate the actual comic book industry than the big two, they're always the top sellers and probably because they received direct adaptations that incentivized fans to buy volumes to see where the story goes (demonstrating that maybe comics just need faithful adaptations to become popular just like how a lot of the best selling and most famous manga have anime adaptations that were extremely popular).
Marvel and DC still publish comics but it feels more like an afterthought at this point, something they just have to do because they're conglomerates that originated from publishing comics and they need to fill all kinds of markets rather than it actually having any impact on the companies' bottom line. They clearly put most of their stock in and generate their revenue from the movies, TV shows, and merchandise they produce.
>You don't like ice cream? Just check this guy that makes indie handmade ice cream
That comparison makes no goddamn sense. Ice creams aren't stories, it's just food. It's not the same.
>Just use outliers and unsustainable or infrequent releases as your main metric for the quality of comics and the overall impression changes entirely!
Why are these posts in every one of these threads? You can cherry pick indie manga too if you want. There's still more proportionally too.
>Just use outliers and unsustainable or infrequent releases as your main metric for the quality of comics and the overall impression changes entirely!
Why are these posts in every one of these threads? You can cherry pick indie manga too if you want. There's still more proportionally too.
I don't think the image is talking about cape shit or genres in comics.
Buy about how the comic industry generally tries to appeal to everyone all at once and end up appealing to no one, they want all demographics to read one single series while Japan has multiple series for a diverse variety of demographic. In Japan you can choice to watch the Yuri/Yaoi currently being published or you can read something like Goblin Slayer or Ragna Crimson instead, is your personal choice.
In comics you can't enjoy anything made for straight male, you must accept what is made safe for women or don't enjoy anything at all, reason why current comics have stupid terms such as safe horny to avoid hurting women and minorities sensibilities.
Japs have a high churn, high output business model that allows for a large spread of more targeted/niche titles, while the Americans have a low output model that pushes their titles to be (in theory) more broadly appealing. The pitfalls of each model are obvious. The Japs can get too close to their audience, which results in some of the most successful stuff being cheap, pandering garbage. Meanwhile the Americans can frick up in two distinct ways. One, they can get too detached from the audience and lose sight of what the general audience actually wants. Two, their efforts to be broadly appealing can end up spreading them thin and make it appealing to no one.
You know not every single one of those trades were translated into Japanese right?
They're speaking from a Japanese perspective where most you get are a few stand-alone cape trades or Image titles
>manga about fishing >story focuses on fishing >conflicts tend to be centered around fishing >main character loves fishing >manga gets very technical and in depth about fishing that even if you don't really care for fishing you are sucked in by the extreme details to fishing >by the end you appreciate fishing in a way, and learn a lot about fishing >not surprisingly, the author loves fishing as well and used to be a fisherman, and he still spends a lot of time fishing
>western comic about fishing >story is about gay characters and their romances, as well as troubles with student debt >fishing is mentioned in passing, and is used maybe by the main characters as a backdrop >surface level understanding of fishing at best >author hasn't even been to a lake before and is 24/7 on twitter >has pronouns in bios
My problem with comics is just ugly and visually unappealing the art and character designs are. Im not asking for uguu anime girls but can the characters atlesdt look somewhat attractive? Is that too much to ask?
Anyone with the skill to draw well in the west is staying as far away from publishing companies as possible so you are left with mediocre losers who are more interested in being part of a publishing company than being good at making comics.
In manga a story is allowed to progress over an entire series, whereas in western comics the run is intended to be shorter and arcs have to be done issue by issue for a story to be told in a couple issues, because the market expectations are different.
Manga runs like a soap opera, and western comics run like prestige TV. There's 40 seasons of soap-opera television show "Tears of our loves" with long, years-spanning storylines that could probably be condensed down to like an hour each, but it's understood that people will be sitting down every thursday afternoon to "catch up on their stories" whereas western comics expect half their audience to watch the one first season of The Sopranos all in one go on DVD after the fact but aren't going to have the attention span to sit there and watch endless seasons, so they have a concrete story to tell over fewer seasons, and each episode has to be a single concrete story with hooks for larger plot. "This issue of Incredible Spider-Guy, he deals with a shooting at The Big Chemical Factory, and he discovers a larger plot that will play out over a year" as opposed to "Spunky Anime Boy is going to go on a 15-year-long-run of manga issues that might conclude meaningfully and might not".
This is clearly about demographics.
For manga there's a general separation between demographics with some occasional overlap (like when a sports series like Blue Lock attracts both adult men and adult women, but for different reasons), whereas mainstream comics are constantly trying to push "that one comic" that can appeal to everyone, not realizing that such a comic doesn't exist.
It's why you constantly see comics pushing for representation everywhere, the companies are obsessed with it.
Comics are focused on inclusion, everyone needs to be represented everytime. While in Manga they are okay to have a variety of different stories that focus on a particular audience
I think they're saying manga is more diverse but that's absolutely false. Manga is 33% isekai, 33% romcom, 33% action slock, and 1% actually unique stuff.
Manga is gayer than Comics regardless of what the weebs tell you?
Not a weeb, an actual Jap.
>even the nips are mocking western comics, which they can't read anyways since their english is not even B1
It's over.
Anon...
BL (boys love) コミック (Ko-mi-ku; Literally Comic)
>The Japanese didn't have words gay enough to describe their manga of boys kissing so they went overboard and used English words like "boys love" and "comic book" which are both terms TOO gay to describe their books.
Sad state
japan has a bit for everyone, comics have the full gay pride in each book
Cinemaphile - Comics & Cartoons
>Cinemaphile - Comics & Cartoons
>manga
>lots of different titles for lots of different audiences, if you don't like one thing you can just pick up anothjer
>comics
>everything must be inclusive and suitable for everyone at all times, if you don't like it you're a racist chud
Makes sense to me.
This.
Trying to "appeal to everyone" is absolutely the worst way to go about when making art.
>Trying to "appeal to everyone" is absolutely the worst way to go about when making art.
It's what nets you the most revenue. Just look at any illumination movie. Safe, crowd pleasing, easily marketable, highly successful at the box office.
The problem is, you can't just market to one group that obviously isn't the majority of where your sales are coming from while alienating your larger fanbase (like a lot of comics tend to do).
This. OP probably understood and is just fishing for replies because otherwise he's moronic.
if i were you wager id say hes saying that japanese manga tends to be very specific and niche, lots of options directed at very clear and specific audiences
whereas american comics tend to be broad and similar because its a much smaller industry, so they try to appeal to everyone at once
https://nitter.net/LAmeltingorder/status/1580038095830798336
it takes japan a million fricking mangas achieve what america does consistently and completely
lol that's the complete opposite of the truth and the reason comics are fricking dead. You can fit enough story in one tanko to make it actually worth reading on its own but you cannot do that in one floppy.
American comics were never consistent
>achieve what america does consistently and completely
Sell no copies?
this. how many chapters do the biggest manga IPs have?
No variety, I think
I think what he actually mans is that comics are mostly the same shit with little variety, while manga is both more numerous and more varied in what it does in comparison.
If that's the case then why would anyone ever bother reading comics? There's nothing to actually put it over manga if it's like you said.
Didn't you ever wonder why manga generally sells better than Western comics do?
>anyone ever bother reading comics?
No one does
But all the colours of the manga are found in a rainbow.
literal morons in this thread, the rainbow isn't gay in this image, it just represents 0-100%
>manga is one long continuous story for one particular franchise, making jumping into something simple aside from the "lol 1000 chapters meme"
>comic is self-contained adventures within the same franchise, with all kinds of varying timelines, universes, reboots, new author runs etc, making it confusing where to "start"
BDs are where it's at
Everyone above your post with the exception of one guy already deduced this. Only one dude mentioned the word gay or synonyms of it.
Unironically manga is the most lgbt heavy media content in the world
Yes, but ironically you also get more variety. There's plenty of gay/trans shit if you want that and plenty of regular shit too. It's not like the US where everything has to be everything.
Variety in what sense? A lot of manga, especially the most popular ones nowadays, tend to be very formulaic themselves.
>Variety in what sense?
In genres/scenarios/atmospheres. Just like any other medium, books and video games for examples.
>tend to be very formulaic themselves.
They are as formulaic as it is normal for a medium to be. The problem with comics is they are more formulaic and generic than almost any other medium. Manga and BDs don't do anything special, they are just like every other normal medium. Comics look worse in comparison because they feel worse than other mediums and have downfalls specific to them.
>They are as formulaic as it is normal for a medium to be. The problem with comics is they are more formulaic and generic than almost any other medium. Manga and BDs don't do anything special, they are just like every other normal medium. Comics look worse in comparison because they feel worse than other mediums and have downfalls specific to them.
>No shit, the most popular stuff is always bland. And when you're looking at just what's in one magazine aimed at one demographic (Shounen Jump) you're going to see a lot of similarities.
>The point is manga is much more focused. You have action series, romance, sci-fi, etc and then gay/whatever flavors of all of those. Everyone can find what appeals to them.
Yes but how is that different from western comics? Sure it's limiting if you're only looking at capeshit but there are many other kinds of comics too. Stuff like Saga and Bone, Image tends to publish different genres nowadays. Graphic novels are also a thing. Comics from Europe tend to be weirder and more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
>Sure it's limiting if you're only looking at capeshit but there are many other kinds of comics too.
Yes, but capeshit utterly dominated in America for decades. It's actually a niche now, despite what capeshitters believe, but the damage is done. Other genres continued to flourish in Japan and as a result the mainstream is more varied there. Series like Slam Dunk, for instance, are monster sellers where in America sports comics died ages ago. There's just no contest right now, but it's getting better in America.
>Comics from Europe tend to be weirder and more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
Ha, no. You just don't know what you're talking about. It's fairly clear your knowledge of manga starts and ends with Naruto.
The thing is superhero shit make for for 70% of all the american market comic while shonen, the whole demographic, makes for 25% of all manga.
>more artistic than anything produced in american comics and japanese manga industries.
In a way but also read about Nouvelle manga movement. French artists were surprised that japanese are allowed to publish the stories in mainstream seinen/josei manga that they would have to go indie to publish themselves. Also another advantage, something like Scot Pilgrim that is an "indie comic" has early equivalents which served as inspiration in mainstream manga.
Also don't confuse that with me shitting on comics . I like some of them but the market could be waaaay more healthier for the fans.
>Variety in what sense?
Variety in the sense of variety. There are oceans of manga of every imaginable type.
>especially the most popular ones nowadays, tend to be very formulaic
No shit, the most popular stuff is always bland. And when you're looking at just what's in one magazine aimed at one demographic (Shounen Jump) you're going to see a lot of similarities.
The point is manga is much more focused. You have action series, romance, sci-fi, etc and then gay/whatever flavors of all of those. Everyone can find what appeals to them.
>Everyone can find what appeals to them.
I remember someone showed me a manga about home design that was formatted like a battle shonen. Wild stuff.
>There are oceans of manga of every imaginable type.
and they're all shit
It means he made it vague on purpose as bait for stupid people like me.
So American comics can go Super because we have the Rainbow Gem? Cool, thnx
I don't get it.
Its a reference to the hit Xbox 360 game Sonic the Hedgehog 2006
Yeah, I can definitely see nudeobama reading that
Comics are trying to appeal to everyone and there is less choice than the targeted audience manga does. Its pretty good observation. You check the releases in one day there is a manga about
>a young boy fighting monsters
>teen girls hanging out at the malt shop
>fat gay men
>pretty girls almost gay but not quite
>femdom
>orcs fricking women
What is stopping western comic book industry from copying system from the japanese manga industry.
>each magazine costs 5.99
>comes with 20 comics from 20 different authors
>weekly/monthly releases
>users can rank each comic, and the least liked goes to the chopping block
>different magazines for different age groups and niche groups
>authors have ownership of their creations
its a good system.
>US comic industry
>ever doing author ownership
>ever doing multiple releases in one comic.
>What is stopping western comic book industry from copying system from the japanese manga industry
The Japanese manga industry operates like normal publishing companies. The big 2 do not. They are different industries with different goals.
I'm not defending the western comics industry, but if you are a capes comics reader, which is most of the direct market, and you want comics to maintain their particular identity which is founded upon a shared universe of company-owned characters, then you can't adopt the Japanese system wholesale. It's an either-or proposition.
Another way to look at the problem is, do you feel the problem with comics is the top down editorial structure, or the current editorial leadership specifically? If you feel it's the former, then you do away with the system. If you feel it's the latter, then the solution is replacing people.
It doesn't have to be the big 2, Dark Horse and Image comics are still players in the industry, I think they have the tools to create a magazine like shonen jump, and Dark Horse already stated that 60% of their revenue comes from licensed manga, at this point they should embrace the japanese business style, and as long they can put the magazines on gas stations, supermarkets and mom'n'pop stores for a cheap price, I'm believe it will be relative success, just make sure use b/w newsprint.
Also, the objective is to create whales, hardcore fans who are going to buy whatever piece of merch no matter the price, see F2P games like Genshin, Action Taimanin and DOTA2.
>as long they can put the magazines on gas stations, supermarkets and mom'n'pop stores
not happening
why ?
We don't have magazines here like that because we can't generate circulation numbers of 2.9 million copies in the US (the closest we got with comics led to an industry implosion in the 90s). At typical US circulation number, a b/w magazine of size would cost significantly more than what Japanese customers pay for something like Weekly Shōnen Jump. Japan is still in their golden age of comics, our's is long past (also reading is literally at an all time low in the country, americans just prefer to watch shit over reading).
Magazines aren't sustainable in the first place over here. Most print mags are a novelty now.
Switch to b&w cheap newsprint like the Japanese do
That's still going to cost way more in the US, especially if it has like 8 seperate titles per issue. Also very few american artists are willing to do a weekly schedule without a lot of assistance.
have ownership of their creations
Barely true in Japan where companies are known to exploit people. You can make a lot of money if you happen to write something ridiculously successful but the company will always have a bigger piece of the pie.
What part of "stuffed with millions of soulless israelites" don't you understand?
It's all about ripping IPs away from their creators like a newborn from its mother and GIMMICKS GIMMICKS GIMMICKS.
>YA LIKE TRANS? CONNER'S TRANS NOW. I HAVE NO FRICKING IDEA HOW TO WRITE THIS BUT I KNOW IT'S HOT! I COULD EVEN WRITE IT TO CRITICIZE THE MOVEMENT IF I CARED, BUT I DON'T BECAUSE I'M JUST A GRUBBY israelite.
THE STORY'S GONNA READ LIKE GETTING STABBED IN THE EYE, BUT IF YOU SAY YOU HATE IT, YOU'RE TRANSPHOBIC! NO ONE'S GONNA READ IT EXCEPT LOYAL READERS WHO I WILL MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY ABUSE AS IS israelite CULTURE.
>authors have ownership of their creations
Magazine anthologies don't work here anymore, if they ever did. Heavy Metal, Mad Magazine, dead. The old black and white horror and scifi magazines all died, as did almost all the old underground comic anthologies. Even the anthologies DC and Marvel tried never made it out the 80s. Even porn magazines from Penthouse Comix didn't live long. It's not like the shit has never been tried.
>What is stopping western comic book industry from copying system from the japanese manga industry
Jews.
Because they thought it easier and cheaper to import this kind of entertainment.
>copying
the worst part is that the japanese approach is how comics used to be, detective comics 27 had batman sharing his first appearance with nine other stories. superheroes were treated as just one more genre, romance, westerns, adventures, war stories, etc all got their own comics
There's tons of comics that are published every year that aren't related to the big superhero companies, people just don't pay attention to them because they're original ideas and not based on IP. Arguments like these are always shit because they never address the wide margin of an industry, just focusing on the new stuff.
It's like the morons saying movies are dead just because the MCU is trash. Stop watching big Hollywood blockbusters then, go to film festivals and check those movies out. Or watch independent films online, there are loads out right now. Maybe check out foreign films you hear are good.
You'd do any of that if you genuinely wanted to give a medium a chance, but these kind of people don't put any effort and think the popular things represent an entire industry.
>just go to xyz festival
That is work.
Unpopular things do not matter.
>just check the indie stuff
Using this argument all the industries that have ever existed are perfect. You don't like ice cream? Just check this guy that makes indie handmade ice cream. Good, the comic industry and every single one for that matter do not need to change. After all there are always 0.1% of the people that make indie stuff.
But you're not referring to the "comic industry", just specifically DC and Marvel.
DC and Marvel are the leaders of the comic industry. Most of the non-superheroes stuff still exist as a reaction to Marvel and DC and the way they are published and advertised is according to the market that Marvel and DC created. You can't talk about comics in USA without talking about Marvel and DC.
you also can't pretend they're the whole story
Yeah they are not the whole story.
There's such a big dissonance between the visibility of the big two and indie comics that most audiences don't even know the latter exists in the first place.
At this point, it feels more like Kirkman's works dominate the actual comic book industry than the big two, they're always the top sellers and probably because they received direct adaptations that incentivized fans to buy volumes to see where the story goes (demonstrating that maybe comics just need faithful adaptations to become popular just like how a lot of the best selling and most famous manga have anime adaptations that were extremely popular).
Marvel and DC still publish comics but it feels more like an afterthought at this point, something they just have to do because they're conglomerates that originated from publishing comics and they need to fill all kinds of markets rather than it actually having any impact on the companies' bottom line. They clearly put most of their stock in and generate their revenue from the movies, TV shows, and merchandise they produce.
>You don't like ice cream? Just check this guy that makes indie handmade ice cream
That comparison makes no goddamn sense. Ice creams aren't stories, it's just food. It's not the same.
How many times do we have to tell you old man?
Indie comics don't want to be big.
Nor are 90% unique.
Like clockwork
We had this argument before.
Indie comics literally do not want to get big and blow up with mainstream audiences.
Nor are most of them diverse.
>Just use outliers and unsustainable or infrequent releases as your main metric for the quality of comics and the overall impression changes entirely!
Why are these posts in every one of these threads? You can cherry pick indie manga too if you want. There's still more proportionally too.
That comics are usually paced a little too quickly, whereas manga is usually paced abysmally
>y-y-yeah, well manga's still better! No, I won't give examples, because SHUT UP!
God, weeb copium is the fricking worst.
>That comics are usually paced a little too quickly
You can tell this anon is a capeshitter.
They hate you because you tell the truth
I don't think the image is talking about cape shit or genres in comics.
Buy about how the comic industry generally tries to appeal to everyone all at once and end up appealing to no one, they want all demographics to read one single series while Japan has multiple series for a diverse variety of demographic. In Japan you can choice to watch the Yuri/Yaoi currently being published or you can read something like Goblin Slayer or Ragna Crimson instead, is your personal choice.
In comics you can't enjoy anything made for straight male, you must accept what is made safe for women or don't enjoy anything at all, reason why current comics have stupid terms such as safe horny to avoid hurting women and minorities sensibilities.
>Nips can export their anime & manga wth sexy teens and pantyshots in America
>An Adult Woman wearing a colorful leotard is outdated and cancellable
>manga
>samurai shit, cyberpunk shit, ninja shit, romance shit, mystery shit, horror shit, surreal shit, phylosophical shit, mecha shit, superhero shit, isekai shit, harem shit, school shit, sci fi shit etc
>comics
>superhero shit, superhero shit, superhero shit, superhero shit, superhero shit, indie LGBTQ shit, mainstream LGBT shit, men are le evil shit, horror trash written by Bunn/Tynion, superhero shit, one decent book, superhero LGBT shit
Wow such variety
Japs have a high churn, high output business model that allows for a large spread of more targeted/niche titles, while the Americans have a low output model that pushes their titles to be (in theory) more broadly appealing. The pitfalls of each model are obvious. The Japs can get too close to their audience, which results in some of the most successful stuff being cheap, pandering garbage. Meanwhile the Americans can frick up in two distinct ways. One, they can get too detached from the audience and lose sight of what the general audience actually wants. Two, their efforts to be broadly appealing can end up spreading them thin and make it appealing to no one.
But something like Demon Slayer only has 23 volumes while something like Wonder woman has gone for 80 years now.
You know not every single one of those trades were translated into Japanese right?
They're speaking from a Japanese perspective where most you get are a few stand-alone cape trades or Image titles
it means he doesn't read comics
>manga about fishing
>story focuses on fishing
>conflicts tend to be centered around fishing
>main character loves fishing
>manga gets very technical and in depth about fishing that even if you don't really care for fishing you are sucked in by the extreme details to fishing
>by the end you appreciate fishing in a way, and learn a lot about fishing
>not surprisingly, the author loves fishing as well and used to be a fisherman, and he still spends a lot of time fishing
>western comic about fishing
>story is about gay characters and their romances, as well as troubles with student debt
>fishing is mentioned in passing, and is used maybe by the main characters as a backdrop
>surface level understanding of fishing at best
>author hasn't even been to a lake before and is 24/7 on twitter
>has pronouns in bios
My problem with comics is just ugly and visually unappealing the art and character designs are. Im not asking for uguu anime girls but can the characters atlesdt look somewhat attractive? Is that too much to ask?
Anyone with the skill to draw well in the west is staying as far away from publishing companies as possible so you are left with mediocre losers who are more interested in being part of a publishing company than being good at making comics.
Manga has a lot of variety, but a few comics are the full package.
In manga a story is allowed to progress over an entire series, whereas in western comics the run is intended to be shorter and arcs have to be done issue by issue for a story to be told in a couple issues, because the market expectations are different.
Manga runs like a soap opera, and western comics run like prestige TV. There's 40 seasons of soap-opera television show "Tears of our loves" with long, years-spanning storylines that could probably be condensed down to like an hour each, but it's understood that people will be sitting down every thursday afternoon to "catch up on their stories" whereas western comics expect half their audience to watch the one first season of The Sopranos all in one go on DVD after the fact but aren't going to have the attention span to sit there and watch endless seasons, so they have a concrete story to tell over fewer seasons, and each episode has to be a single concrete story with hooks for larger plot. "This issue of Incredible Spider-Guy, he deals with a shooting at The Big Chemical Factory, and he discovers a larger plot that will play out over a year" as opposed to "Spunky Anime Boy is going to go on a 15-year-long-run of manga issues that might conclude meaningfully and might not".
This is clearly about demographics.
For manga there's a general separation between demographics with some occasional overlap (like when a sports series like Blue Lock attracts both adult men and adult women, but for different reasons), whereas mainstream comics are constantly trying to push "that one comic" that can appeal to everyone, not realizing that such a comic doesn't exist.
It's why you constantly see comics pushing for representation everywhere, the companies are obsessed with it.
Comics are focused on inclusion, everyone needs to be represented everytime. While in Manga they are okay to have a variety of different stories that focus on a particular audience
I corrected it a little bit.
I think they're saying manga is more diverse but that's absolutely false. Manga is 33% isekai, 33% romcom, 33% action slock, and 1% actually unique stuff.
Isekai is not even 3% of all manga.
I want to frick a social justice warrior while she yells at me to check my privledge as I pound her tight jiggly ass