What is it about this character that causes so much division in the Sonic fandon?
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 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
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What is it about this character that causes so much division in the Sonic fandon?
What is it about this character that causes so much division in the Sonic fandon?
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DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
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is she smoking?
She's demonstrating how she sucks human dick.
This written(and drawn) by the most mentally challenged degenerative virgin sonic furdom fan. It's fitting.
>the virgin furry women wants human men
>the chad furry women yearns for scalie men
Jesus christ so thats why sonic fans are fricking weird
Even Sonic fans who never read the comic are fricked up. Its just one of those franchises that attracts the neurodivergent and mentally-unwell, just like Undertale.
>tails eating drano
kek
LMFAO!!!!!!!!
Oh god I thought that this was a meme but its real
>You were getting killing and I was at home how dare you!
>You were getting killing and I was at home how dare you!
This only works if the hero character is being reckless and putting themselves in harms way due to ego or impulse issues dispite there being other options. It doesn't work if the hero is the only one who can save the world.
Is she seriously saying her happiness is more important than saving millions?
Yes. Yes she is.
Indeed. She was seriously screwed by drama whoring writers even before the slap. I know people blame Gray for this but he was the penciller ffs, this had to be inked, colored, and typeset before being sent out. It's not like they couldn't have told him to dial it down but nobody did.
Anon that's just it, most of her fans don't consider their SatAM depiction as her definitive version because Archie was the most recent long running piece of media to feature her. That goes for the other Freedom Fighters as well, ESPECIALLY Rotor (whose design was screwed by S2), Nicole (she's only a plot device; doesn't matter if there was a scrapped story about her being real it never made it to the final cut. Ironically enough, this also means Nicole can't "steal" away Sally's hacking skill which is a trait that was slowly if ever featured in Archie), and Antione (need I say more?).
She never recovered from this.
Lanolin had her own version of The Slap in IDW #64
No, she didn't.
That isn't even remotely equivalent to this shit show, Lanolin isn't nearly as relevant and only responded to Whisper's grab.
Blink and you'll miss cameos using the prototype version doesn't count apparently (Ian already tried leveraging that for Classic) only the mountain was given any attention.
It's not the Japanese fan base, it's the suits over at SoJ who don't give a frick about her or any of the older cartoons. They don't even have consideration for their own OCs (Sonic X) and thus have little fricks to give with characters they weren't meticulously breathing over.
>But they got that poster-
Yeah, and showed their thanks as a courtesy. It doesn't mean they actually care about the characters or fans, we would've gotten them back way earlier if that was case.
>They don't even have consideration for their own OCs
Isn't that kirlia not under Sega's copyright?
Apparently she's partly TV Tokyo property or something.
It astonishing how many Sonic things are in this legal limbo. Characters from TV shows, the music from the Genesis games, Ken Pender's shit.
Pretty sure, yeah. Even the Ghosts from the Werehog short are owned by Marza and need permission to be used as a small cameo (even if Sega own them), I've heard from others that the way copyright/trademarks works in Japan is draconian and apparently very tedious to work around and ultimately not worth the effort in dealing with (at least from a foreigner's POV)
Say what you want about Amy, she wouldn't want Sonic to stop being a hero.
Or Blaze.
OTP
Blaze is her own hero.
Blaze is just a genderbent sonic.
No wonder Sonic likes her.
I do not think Sonic is into anyone like that. He's still a young man, so he's more in love with his freedom than anything else.
>That means he's gay!
No, he's just a very adventurous and athletic. Girls are just not on his mind. Now, SATAM Sonic is a fricking horndog for Sally.
I mean, if he did like anyone, it'd make sense for it to be the girl who can keep up with him and likes adventuring with him.
Boco still on that broken clock being right record at the moment
Sonic is canonically a silvaze shipper.
He meant in a sense that Blaze is Silver's tardwrangler.
>copium
And when Blaze blushed when Sonic held her hand?
That was entirely one sided. Sonic never returns those feelings so she shacks up with Silver by the end of the story. They are also still together in the latest issue.
It's whatever the current writer thinks characters should act. One artist/won't hint at any interest between characters, one artist/writer won't. So you guys are both incorrect and both wrong, so I always find shipping wars to be pointless, like dogs barking through a fence. lol.
I wanna pet Blaze...
Bro, you have no idea how much I want to cuddle this little purple furball.
She is a very pettable creature.
I bet her fur is super soft.
that seems more passive aggressive and deliberately interfering if anything. Also why do people insist on Silvaze when it's an awful pairing that is reductive to Blaze as a character at best and at most just shallow based on a game that contradicts most of Blaze's everything
What even is Blaze’s character? She’s a shallow waifubait character for nintendies.
She's basically the Anti-Sonic. Serious and burdened with responsibility where he's laid back and free spirited.
So literally just Knuckles with a vegana?
The difference between the two is Blaze would love to go adventuring but her duties don't let her, while Knuckles would be content just lounging around the Emerald Altar all day. Blaze is more like Sonic with Knuckles' responsibility, and the dichotomy between the two is why she's constantly on edge.
>constantly on edge
Aye, that's why in my headcanon, Blaze might lash out in a bright flash of anger once in a rare while in inappropriate situations.
>Knuckles would be content just lounging around the Emerald Altar all day.
Isn't that shown not to be the case in Frontiers wanting to go on adventures on his own and take a break from guarding the Master Emerald?
I mean you could just get a wiki up and look in the personality section of her page but she's meant to be reserved, starts with a temper but has managed to cool that thanks to Sonic and Cream getting her out of her shell. A person who burdens responsibility strongly and has a sense of duty due to being princess and guardian but also can be kind. Shame she got sideline hard after the rush games and even Archie never had her be plot important like Silver was
Not even Sega really knows since they prefer not to use her or anybody else from the Rush games.
SEGA is ran by idiots, so, are you really that surprised? I mean, they have to ask Americans how to run their own company for God's sakes.
Telegraphed as frick.
"Modern" writers' ability to be subtle is going down the drain.
Less is more.
you wanna talk about horndog Sonic's, AOSTH Sonic was a poon hound who went with multiple different girls, guy was licentious at the least
Very true. But the general Sonic that it's most of SEGA depictions of him seem to be set on a theme of "he loves his personal freedom the most.".
I suppose. It ultimately depends on a person's personal taste when it comes to fictional character. Each person's head canon is their own little universe after all. As for anything "official", I guess you'd have to ask SEGA for a solid answer.
I'm not going to go on a tirade about shippers. lol.
Blaze is more dignified, calm and collected than spunky, adventurous and tomboyish.
She's almost shot for shot Rivet from Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, in terms of her relationship to the main character.
I interpreted her as being more collected, nothing like Rivet. Could be her style and background that keeps me doing that.
Yeah, I was correct, she's normally calm and elegant.
She’s a genderbent Knuckles except with 0 character flaws.
Why do Sally detractors always point to her comic version? Everything about Sonic comics is trash except for the artwork, and her SatAM version will always be her main incarnation.
She was shit there too. She bossed Sonic around and got more stuff done than he did. She was the MC, not Sonic.
>her SatAM version will always be her main incarnation.
You're getting mindbroken, that's for sure.
https://desuarchive.org/co/search/image/nXkK37JU3VWdObRbKsvxRA/
because the comic is fun and memorable while the cartoon was boring, in huge part thanks to Sally being shit and getting way too much screentime
Most people only remember Sally because of her Archie version.
SatAM S2 Sally was even worse than pretty much all of Archie Sally, because she was Ben Hurst's Mary Sue waifu.
She was a Mary Sue in Archie too. Except the slap.
>Except the slap
Why exclude the slap? From any rational person's point of view, she was acting like a complete b***h. Yet the story is trying to get you to sympathize with her (or at least pretend there's any grey area to that fiasco). The story bending over backwards to justify a character's wrongdoing seems pretty Mary Sue to me.
Frick sally all my Black folks hate sally
Statistically Sally is way more popular with black Sonic fans than Amy.
I'm not making that up.
Someone should draw Sally dressed as Yellow Jacket since much like Hank Pym they both get unwarranted hate cause of one bad writing moment involving a slap lol
i don;t consider this the same sally from the show
Why not? She was a prostitute in both versions.
Maddonna is better
It's amazing this one page fricked the entire fandom. Like it's a case of bad writing hamfisted forced by writers/editors with an agenda and not at indicative of Sally's true characterization, but I guess that's requires more common sense than Sonic fans are capable of.
Now you know why IDW Sonic isn't doing so great either.
>mary jane, but a rodent with primate boobs
She’s the only character in the series who Sonic has laid pipe in. 90% of her haters are from other shippers.
vest or no vest?
Fans wanting her to be in the games despite the fact her earlier design would've made her stick out like a sore thumb in the Sonic Team designs. Not to mention she's unknown to most of the Japanese Sonic fan base.
Nobody complained it happened, though.
static figurine at best and Spinball was created by STI
Sonic 2 was made by STI too.
only difference they had Sonic Team as copilots
All STI did was rent out office space to their visiting Japanese overlords.
this was my favorite bonus level because it let you have a chance to release freedom fighter anthros the in a completely novel way besides the animals that came from badniks from other games
>unknown to most of the Japanese Sonic fan base
Oh, it would be so bad for all 50 of them.
People realize Bunnie is better
She's not canon.
You're not canon.
The moment Sonic Adventure was released, any hope of the FF getting in a Sonic game were stillborn
You know how in the MCU the guys are off being charming or silly rogues and fighting evil and the women are there to be the serious no fun allowed Strong Female Character™ type that exists almost solely to raise a sarcastic eyebrow at the manchild protagonist?
Sally is kind of a precursor to that.
And the thing is, since Sonic is basically the only character in the cartoon with legitimate superpowers, a lot of the time some of her detractors get the sense that Sally is there to pad the run time by being a naysaying school marm or getting into trouble so that Sonic can't just solve the problems instantly.
And on the other side, there's waifu warriors that want their half naked furry and seem to really, REALLY hate the Japanese and the video game canon.
>Sally is kind of a precursor to that.
Well excuuuuuuuuuse me, Princess.
Yeah. They're both DiC video game adaptations from the 90s. Sally was even originally going to be human.
Not a precursor at all, not by decades.
Women in boys cartoons only had 2 roles.
>The girlfriend
>The mean no fun allowed older sister
It goes back to the 60s. Girls were either the love interest type that was super into the main character, or the bossy b***h that constantly got mad at the main character. You even have a lot of series written by women who still shoeorn every female character into one of those two roles.
Scooby-Doo has a 2/5 female cast and neither of those roles apply.
If you think Daphne is anything but the girlfriend, you are moronic, and have never seen 1971 Scooby Doo.
She and Fred are clearly into each other but it's not that important to any of the stories which are about mysterious.
Princess Leia came before her. It's just how westerners have been writing women for a long time.
>And on the other side, there's waifu warriors that want their half naked furry and seem to really, REALLY hate the Japanese and the video game canon.
If they want a furry waifu then rouge the bat is right there though?
But she's not *their* waifu.
She's a better waifu though.
She’s a b***h
She was garbage, and now she's non canon garbage.
Hi Prime.
Shut the frick up Boco. You never have anything to contribute you piece of shit.
Awww, did I insult your furry waifu?
Here we go. Thread's over. Everybody go home.
"thinks she's a bird"
She is my wife
Sally is essentially just the whole issue of old Archie sonic being forgotten in one single character.
It was a relic of a different time that's now been done with, and it's a given that some will rally for her/it because it was around for a long time and Sonic is already noted to be a rather segmented fanbase, and the group was known long before it was killed off.
All that said, I don't see really anyone whining about Archie anymore except for when the new meh issue of IDW comes out.
Same deal with Krystal in Starfox: homosexuals and yaoi/fujo c**ts upset the MC male is paired canonically with a female in a straight relationship.
So they get catty and say the character is just there for sex appeal and love interest as if those are somehow bad things or hurt the story which is ironic given how gays and women are such coomers.
>it's the gays
doesn't explain the sheer vitriol that Sallygays have for Amy.
lmao, the gays love her because she's snarky and has a hot brother
She exists to be a vehicle for melodrama and love triangle nonsense, neither of which should be in a Sonic story. Plus the whole concept of Sonic being a lapdog for a kingdom because he has the hots for the princess is so antithetical to Sonic's core character it's mind boggling how it ever got past the drawing board.
Because while Sonic games did have a canon back when the show as in development, Sega didn't really give a shit enough to tell it to anybody.
All of those DiC adaptations were like that. The writers and animators had very little to go off of so they made stuff up. It's why Megaman is green in Captain N; the only reference they had was playing the first game on a broken television and absolutely nobody working for Capcom or Nintendo thought to correct them.
Brand synergy is a relatively new concept for vidya gaems,
Its usually not a good idea.
It basically ruined Halo.
Archie Sonic isn't unique in how it had its own lore
It's unique because it lasted WAY much longer than expected where it still maintained the game-only fan alienating foundations it was built upon
Closest comparison I can make is Pokespe
It makes me question why Sonic even has a love interest to begin with. It's too cliche and Sonic was about going against the trends to the "traditional" mascot at the time.
Honestly, he should be able to go out with any dame he damn well pleases!
he should try getting interspecial with a saucy serpent lady, if just to cross off the one type of women he hasn't hooked up with yet
She's bottomless
Nostalgia vs shipping wars vs the reality that the character was aimless and often poorly used.
It's crazy to me that the old comic went for nearly 25 years and somehow the core cast barely got any stories or decent usage. If it was just disinterested industry hacks the whole way it'd be one thing, but nearly half of that time the book was penned by a fan. It's crazy.
Even Ian, despite his professed love for the characters, struggled to find a role for the Freedom Fighters in a post-Adventure setting.
Reminder that he even tried to retire Rotor at one point.
Well the game cast really does crowd out the Freedom Fighters, especially since most of them have no powers. What does Rotor contribute that Tails couldn't?
At the time, Tails didn't contribute anything because the localization of the games completely erased how he was supposed to be a super-genius inventor, so Rotor ended up usurping that role. Once Sega started enforcing canon synergy with Sonic Adventure, Tails swiftly made Rotor completely redundant.
But Rotor was gay with Tommy Turtle.
The funny part about that is Rotor was barely relevant even as far back as SatAM. Archie only made him more relevant to begin with because he was the only recurring male character who could have an actual back-and-forth going with Sonic at the beginning.
let's be fair now, absolutely nobody was relevant in the Sally and Sonic show outside of Uncle Chuck
What about Kat?!?! The best character!!!
>he was supposed to be a super-genius inventor
That wasn’t until Tails Adventure in 1995, a little while after the western canon started (unless it was stated in some early Japanese documents). Smartest thing Tails did was fly a plane, which Sonic could presumably do too
He was smart enough to soup up the Tornado at the end of Sonic 2, and he used some fancy gadget to scan for the emeralds in Sonic 3.
He also fixed it in the span of 10 minutes and attached a rocket to it, but sure.
From the Japanese manual:
>Miles "Tails" Prower
>Real name: Miles Prower
>Gender: Male
>Age: 8
>Nickname: Tails
>He admires and respects Sonic.
>His head is full of thoughts of becoming like Sonic.
>He loves Christmas and mint candy.
>As you can see, he has goggle-eyes.
>He loves to tinker with machines and has invented many things.
>Driving a car or flying an airplane is his biggest specialty.
>His favorite car is Lotus Super Seven.
>He's always chasing after Sonic.
>When he was little, everyone bullied him for his two tails. But thanks to Sonic, the two tails have become a "sign of vitality."
>Because of his two tails, he was bullied by everyone when he was little and was timid, but meeting Sonic and striving to be like him made Miles's personality bright, energetic and positive.
>Sonic doesn't seem to be paying attention to Miles, but he's actually looking at him sideways.
It's been a stated part of his character since his debut, and Tails Adventure takes place before he met Sonic (in Japan; US localized it to Tails having some me-time away from Sonic).
Blame Sega of America.
B-but... he can't be 8 years old!!
He's too mature!!
Tails flew a plane in Sonic 2, I don't know how people think he's supposed to be the tag along kid. SATAM was made early during the development of Sonic 2, so maybe they didn't see Wing Fortress Zone yet.
>The very idea of making her lesbians with Amy is the only thing she keeping Surge popular now.
Which will never happen because:
A. No romance.
B. Especially no romance with canon characters
C. Sega is extremely homophobic and dislike making their most popular characters a lesbian
Also because the idea of Amy loving someone other than Sonic is moronic.
Tekno doesn't count, that's only fanwork.
Yeah I dunno why he was so shy to actually do stuff with them.
Ken barely touched the Freedom Fighters, so I dunno what you're on about. The comic versions are better than the show. The problem is they barely did anything.
It wasn't a matter of being "shy", it was the fact the Freedom Fighters just didn't offer anything the game characters couldn't already do by then, aside from Sally bringing LGBT representation after the reboot. They were very self-contained characters at that point.
>it was the fact the Freedom Fighters just didn't offer anything the game characters couldn't already do by then
Well that's just rubbish. He wrote a handful of really good stories with Bunnie and Antoine. The problem was not inability so much as not opting in.
Antoine had no business sticking around as long as he did.
People only cared about Bunnie because she used to be hot.
Antoine would be fine if they actually used him. The coward's journey can be fun. Problem is he existed for punchlines early on and was mostly a narrative tool after outside of like, what, four stories? Criminal misuse.
>People only like Bunnie because she's hot.
That's true for some people, but her being so gung ho and a scrapper had a lot of use where you couldn't really get other characters in a similar position.
The Tails Adventure arc uses them both pretty well despite some problems. You could absolutely use these characters for good stories. The problem is it rarely happened.
His main "brilliant" idea he had for Sally was to make her lesbians with the fricking Nicole. Dude was always a hack, but the Freedom Fighters also just don't have much going for them in this day and age.
No, his main idea was a 10 year "redemption" arc after fans started hating her in the 00s. When that fell apart he shifted courses to being in lesbians with what's effectively her sister/clone.
Probably because for the other half it was written by a guy that would rather have been doing Star Trek novels and low key resented the fact that he was stuck doing Sonic up until he got kicked off it and then realized nobody gave a shit about his Star Trek fanfic.
As a result early Sonic comic stuff with the freedom fighters is an adaptation made by a guy that didn't like the source material. And the source material he didn't like was itself an adaptation done by people that didn't really understand or like what *they* were adapting either.
It's a copy of a copy. Of course the quality got degraded.
I like how big her breasts are.
There's this shot of her holding a pile of crap...
post her eating it
"IIII'm going to ignore that..."
Cute chipmunk.
(this was request, not for shipping wars, I promise.)
Yes, Sally is very cuddly.
...and then there's an extreme close-up of the crap, but they made sure that one of her fat breasts was looming into the frame.
There are fans who got into Sonic through the comics or show she appears in, and consider her an important part of the cast whose presence is a large part of the appeal. Then, there are fans who got into Sonic through other means (such as the games, other shows and comics, and so on), who have no attachment to her.
You see this sort of thing often when a franchise has a fairly popular spinoff or oddball entry whose prominent elements don't carry over to the rest.
this
She has a lot of good moments (slugging Fiona, escaping from Fang's goons) as well as a lot of bad ones (The Slap, some of the romantic melodrama).
Because of that, both her fans and haters have a lot of ammo to argue about her with.
Her fans also tend to be insufferable, even compared to your average Sonicgay.
When I think about it, I hate Sally's fanbase more than Sally herself.
It is literally just because Amy Rose debuted from Japan while Sally debuted from the west. It is basically the same thing as people getting mad over Princess Toadstool vs Princess Peach, Robotnik vs Eggman, King Koopa vs Bowser.
That isn't close to being the same, the characters you mentioned are ones with name changes, Amy and Sally are fundamentally different characters altogether designed for the same purpose only one was given importance because she was meant for the games while the other was made for a spin off tv/comic that was never going to be the more than just a spin off.
I still have no clue why people want her and others back under Sega's claws. If there were detractors for the Reboot, you can guarantee that Sega would completely retool them again since they don't want to acknowledge Archie again but by using SatAM as the basis. I can't believe there are people that actually believe Sally and them can be used "as is" as if their design philosophy doesn't interfere with Sega's vision even before acknowledging the writing.
Because she's outdated character when the Sonic lore was still being developed, that nostalgic millennials still clutch onto. Sally is, and will, never come back yet 90s kids are still holding out for her return.
Her role of love interest was replaced with Amy (before they retconned that) and role as badass leader was taken by Lanolin in IDW.
Sure, you can still like her, but if you think she's relevent in 2024, you're a fricking moron.
>her role as bad leader
Fixed that for you.
Honestly, the only way I could ever see them use Sally ever again would be if they happened to use the Acorn Kingdom as the setting that Sonic is supposed to save in his latest adventure. But even that would just reduce Sally to a cameo role as the exposition-dropper going "Save us, Sonic!"
Preboot Antoine/Bunnie had some good stuff, but I completely agree about Postboot Antoine/Bunnie. They really had nothing going on.
Once the game cast was being properly utilized, the Freedom Fighters really had no purpose anymore. The only one who ever really did anything after the reboot was Nicole, and that's because there was no pre-existing AI character.
Hell, the IDW OCs have the same problem. What do israeliteel and Lanolin contribute that Amy can't?
Lanolin only exists because the IDW writers, who are known Archietards who just ended up working on the comic before it died, crave a structure similar to the Archie comic, so they need a tardrangler to reign in the actual tone of the Sonic IP, hence Lanolin.
My understanding is a lot of fans regret hyping up Lanolin from back when she was just a recurring background character considering what she ended up becoming, while her creator Adam Bryce Thomas has embraced the vitriol and is now regularly drawing her as tired and miserable.
What gets me is I'm on his side with this (a character that causes drama by being a b***h is a great thing to have in a cast like this), but the way Ian and Evan use her sucks ass. She's not annoying because she's a b***h, she's annoying because of narrative contrivance. It's terrible.
>they need a tardrangler to reign in the actual tone of the Sonic IP, hence Lanolin.
The funny thing is she doesn't even accomplish that. The only characters she ever interacts with are the Crying Lesbian OCs, so she never has a chance to "wrangle" Sonic or assign him missions or anything. The only game character who doesn't just fricking ignore her is Silver.
>fans and creator regret what Lanolin became
LOL, at least they have the good sense to feel bad about it. I only wish Tangle and Whisper's fans had that level of self-awareness.
Considering Tangle is a stand-in for Sonic, its basically the same as writing Archie-Sonic and Sally.
Tangle was never anything more than a design for the sake of marketing, so there's nothing to mourn. Whisper got fricked over even harder than Julie-Su. This shit's sexist as frick.
> I only wish Tangle and Whisper's fans had that level of self-awareness
I fricking hate Whisper and Tangle fans. You can tell because they have their pronouns in their bio and gay flag profiles. They're gay gays that fall for Ian Flynn's blatant queerbating.
Unless I see them scissoring in an upcoming issue, these b***hes are getting dicked down daily.
Same with Surge fans at this point. The very idea of making her lesbians with Amy is the only thing she keeping Surge popular now.
The worrying thing is that sets a really bad precedent for IDW to follow.
I thought she was popular because evil Sonic but girl.
Yeah, she failed at that, horribly. Surge failed at everything she was sold to the fanbase as.
Not really. Only weird power level artists care that she lost her fights.
She's still evil sonic (girl).
Lanolin is "Bossy Sally", to balance how Tangle got to be "Action Sally".
They even gave a b***hy mom as an explanation for her mood.
That's just Adam's own stuff.
Which, granted, is way better than her in the actual comic, but it's not part of the comic.
No his "explanation for her mood" is that she's surrounded by morons.
I suspect part of this is ABT projecting his frustrations working with Sega and the Sonic community.
It wouldn't surprise me.
>I suspect part of this is ABT projecting his frustrations working with Sega and the Sonic community.
Dude's outright said he wishes more people would commission him to draw ANYTHING but Sonic. But yeah. She has a fascination with food/coffee, over thinks things and is hyper critical but knows when to shut the frick up and pretend things are great. It's not 1:1 but yeah, a good bit of it is him irl.
Fun bit I noticed is the implication that her huge boobs are just wool.
>I suspect part of this is ABT projecting his frustrations working with Sega and the Sonic community.
Honestly, I can't blame them.
Yeah...
What the frick?
I just like the black sheep
Wait really?
More or less. This was a while back. One of the black alt drawings got a "agh, this is way better" comment from him.
Would have fit his intentions better and made her stand out more. Feel for him on that one, huge whiff.
>Responds to black sheep Lanolin art essentially going "god damn it I should have done this"
I feel for the man.
Late reply, but I'm curious.
Describe the Black Lanolin design ABT thought was a better.
I want to find it and judge for myself how good it really is.
It's a better design, but I wouldn't want to be frequently drawing it. That "hairstyle" is too much work.
No, not that specific drawing. It was a different one. Had bangs over eyes I believe? I can't find it in the shit ass Twitter app.
I love her black scheme but the cornrows is a little bit too much on the nose
The cornrows are completely unnecessary, too complex and too on the nose. It's a shitty design.
Poor ABT... all the man wants is to draw big breasts without Sega asking him to edit them out.
Any issue with Lanolin comes from the writing department.
>Reboot versions sucked.
Yeah, it was weird. They were presented as if they became more fleshed out characters, but they somehow ended up even more simple than before.
>Nicole was useful.
She was a walking plot device and waifu bait before the reboot and fan feedback on her had terrible reprecussions. Reboot version was barely any better.
>Hell, the IDW OCs have the same problem. What do israeliteel and Lanolin contribute that Amy can't?
They both have great utility as supporting cast members. israeliteel is a link to beauracracy, commoner lives and the mundane. This is great for exposition, jokes and character dynamics. Lanolin is primed to create character conflict, tension and add wrinkles to stories by having conflicting goals.
Neither is used this way because the writers are stupid.
>They were presented as if they became more fleshed out characters, but they somehow ended up even more simple than before.
I feel safe in assuming that was because Sega imposed more writing restrictions by then to prevent shit like the disgusting melodramatic mess the comic had been multiple times before then.
You can only simplify the Freedom Fighters so much before its not even them anymore. Really it would have been better to just drop them entirely.
>safe in assuming that was because Sega imposed more writing restrictions by then
No, I think Ian's just fricking stupid.
He writes shit like this in his own books.
>ended up even more simple than before.
They were basically similar characters except we hadn't had any history with them or seen any development, so readers weren't invested in them the way they might've been for the Preboot versions.
>She was a walking plot device and waifu bait before the reboot
I meant in the sense that she would regularly hack shit and control the nano-city to defend against villains. She also had a super-form she used to battle Phage in the Reboot.
>Neither is used this way because the writers are stupid.
The problem is that israeliteel can't be a link to the mundane because there is no mundane in IDW. We have no idea what the setting is like or what factions are out there, so at most she can just shuffle papers at a desk or complain about filing vague reports. There's not enough worldbuilding for a "mundane" to exist. You could solve that by having israeliteel drop exposition (as you said), but the writers are stupid (as you said).
As for Lanolin, the writers seem to be leaning into what you're suggesting about character conflict (with her disbelieving Silver about Mimic), but I'm not exactly optimistic about that plotline.
You don't need clear examples in a setting to imply stuff. Just having israeliteel react in certain ways tells you a lot about Joe Schmoe on the street. And, again, the writers are coming at Lanolin from the wrong angle. Instead of situations where we can blame her a bit for being an unreasonable vitch but also see her point, we're in a situation where the reader knows she's 100% wrong but she's coming at it from a 100% correct point of view. Instead of tension between characters, the readers get aggravated at the meta narrative. She shouldn't BE totally right if not for key info the reader knows. She should either be handling it poorly or have faults in her logic so you can sympathize but also be frustrated.
They should be writing a Spock but instead they're writing Sally.
>As for Lanolin, the writers seem to be leaning into what you're suggesting about character conflict (with her disbelieving Silver about Mimic), but I'm not exactly optimistic about that plotline.
Ugghhhh... thing that sours me even more with Sheep breasts os that fricking IDW decided to go in a fricking filler binge (which still is fricking bleak for whatever is happening behind the scenes) so that sub plot is on the backburner
The Diamond Shitters are up front and center on the covers to upcoming issues.
>They both have great utility as supporting cast members. israeliteel is a link to beauracracy, commoner lives and the mundane. This is great for exposition, jokes and character dynamics. Lanolin is primed to create character conflict, tension and add wrinkles to stories by having conflicting goals.
>Neither is used this way because the writers are stupid.
This has been Flynn's problem for the longest time. People just gave him rope because he cleaned house after Penders, but Flynn's still responsible for the reboot and a lot of the lead-up to the reboot being complete 6/10 woodpulp material
Ian Flynn hasn't been the writer for ages now. If you want to blame someone, blame Evan-I-Am-The-Gay-Agenda-Stanley.
The swap on and off. Ian's been writing the book for the last four months.
>This has been Flynn's problem for the longest time.
What, being stupid?
Be more specific.
>She was a walking plot device and waifu bait before the reboot and fan feedback on her had terrible reprecussions. Reboot version was barely any better.
Sadly yes, her design is great in both versions but I really hate how she became a wuss and her overpowered nanites in the first version. The reboot sort of fixed her writing but became sort of a writer's pet ironically enough when Sally used to be that.
Whisper and Tangle suffer from Ian's pathetic need to pander to gays without even being committed to it because Sega of course won't allow it. His stupid podcast shows how easy it is for fans to have sway (doesn't help when other writers and artists actually listen to them) and dictate how other characters are perceived because he can't run rampant anymore and probably doesn't care all that much because of it.
>Hell, the IDW OCs have the same problem. What do israeliteel and Lanolin contribute that Amy can't?
Well for one thing Lanolin and israeliteel were created because "Amy needs to go on adventures too" and be stuck as a pencil pusher for the resistance
They were placed so Amy could abandon her resposibilities and go on carefree adventures with sonic guilt free NOT because they were supposed to replace her or anything
Nobody wanted Amy to be stuck behind a desk, literally everybody was going on about how it felt wrong and like they were trying to stick her with Sally's role.
Her character is generally just antithetical to the whole idea of Sonic as a franchise. In a cheesy series about running free, finding your own path in life and THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP you suddenly have this serious leader figure tied to royalty who tries to make every conflict about herself. To some, this makes her a great foil to Sonic's character and makes for an interesting dynamic while to others she's just this annoying b***h that takes the fun out of everything then cries about it.
Zero reason as to why the Freedom Fighters can’t exist in the Classic universe that SEGA keeps pushing.
Sonic doesn’t even need to be part of their group like with the Chaotix, Sally doesn’t need to be Sonic’s love interest, they can be given a redesign to fit better, etc.
Because they serve no purpose that the Sega cast doesn't already fill.
Yes, cause Ray the Flying Squirrel and Mighty the Armadillo are so fricking unique and aren't just reskins of Knuckles and Tails.
More like Tails and Knuckles are reskins of Ray and Mighty.
Still true. Every archetype or character role is filled by a Sega character.
K, who's the 'calm headed leader who will snap under pressure from sonic's constant bullshit, but sticks by him cause she believes in the fight'?
None, because the fricking moronic idea of a resistance fighting for freedom doesn't exist in Classic and doesn't need to. It doesn't work in Modern, either.
The need for a "leader" role in Sonic went out of style decades ago. Trying to bring it back never works.
Yeeeet it works for IDW cause it's not Sally just a big tittied sheep, right?
Oh my no, it doesn't work for Sally 2.0--I mean, Lanolin--at all.
>actually making decent arguments instead of just saying I HATE SATAM MUH CANON and other substance-free shit
Who are you and what have you done with Boco?
Something something broken clocks.
>Yeeeet it works for IDW
Does it? I don't think it does.
Also bear in mind nobody asked Lanolin to become a leader nor did she really need to be. Everything she's doing is because she doesn't want to "be a victim" anymore and she had the realization that most of the problems everybody has to deal with is because Sonic and friends are ineffective heroes who won't actually put an end to Eggman and she feels she needs to become the hero everybody actually needs.
Underselling Sonics character, Sonic was never the type of guy who needed someone to reign his recklessness(especially a woman) in like some rebellious punk teen or your typical shonen hero. Sonic is known to be brash and full of restless impulsiveness but he's also a rationally cool and composed guy capable of acting mature about situations they require decisive thinking and controlling the situation. It's why he's the leader of team Sonic, Sonic has the brainy and utilized mental adaptability of Tails to tell Knuckles to look before he leaps and the wild and bold fighter sprit side of Knuckles to tell Tails to do something with instincts to fight instead of thinking.
I'm torn between feeling you're overanalyzing things and thinking back to how things self-destructed between Sonic and Tails back in Lost World because they made Sonic twice as moronic as usual.
>how things self-destructed between Sonic and Tails back in Lost World because they made Sonic twice as moronic as usual.
We don't talk about that shit trash fire. And it's true, Sonics alot more rationally capable than he let's on.
To put it another way, Sonic is supposed to be the embodiment of movement and freedom and Sally is inherently a leash.
Makes sense, I remember "King Sonic" being bored and unhappy.
Sonic is a rurouni
Thats "ronin".
(masterless samurai)
no, rurouni (wanderer)
that's a bit of a reductive way to look at her character, she wasn't just trying to bag him down all the time and even in the comics when it was getting written well was quite lenient/open to letting him do his things
he's the embodiment of pretentious low iq shonenshitters
He’s the leader of team sonic because he’s the sonic corporate mascot you marysue-wanting self inserter, not because he’s as brainy as tails or as bold as knuckles. The only times he’s ever been the shit you want is horsecrap like X dumbing everyone in the world down to fellate sonic and make him lecture them how the moon orbits the earth and only he knows this.
He’s gotten himself in trouble and been in need of saving because of being rash or not thinking at all plenty of times in Adventure and Genesis, Sally just acts as a helping hand for that as Tails and Knuckles and Amy all have before.
>He’s gotten himself in trouble and been in need of saving because of being rash or not thinking at all plenty of times in Adventure and Genesis, Sally just acts as a helping hand for that as Tails and Knuckles and Amy all have before.
Wow this post is so moronic and wrong. Especially when you said he needed Tails and Knuckles help in the adventure series when he was at his most competent and intelligent. He's never been portrayed as. Rash and careless idiot in those games.
He got himself trapped in prison looking for “clues” about Shadow, of which he found none, and needed Amy and Tails to rescue him. He similarly got himself fired out into space falling for Eggman’s obvious trap and needed the fake emerald to survive. He also tried chasing the helicarrier with absolutely no way to get up to it until Tails arrived in his plane, forgot about Chaos 6 and ran off without a thought in his head before Knuckles defeated it.
He’s not “intelligent” or “brainy” at all in those games, no matter how much you wanna pretend him to be so you can self-insert as a crappy mary sue dicksucker.
and don’t forget
Knuckles: Oh no! The hatch doors are open!
Sonic: Don't sweat it Knuckles! The only thing in the cargo bay are the Master Emeralds. Right?
Knuckles: What do you mean "don't sweat it?"
Lmao
>Posts bad examples as those were outta his control
Posts worst example letting him be in the right in saying Knuckles is a moron who can't be depended on in driving a ship.
Your stupidity must be studied.
all of those were in his control, and happened because he's stupid. Noone forced him to fall for an obvious trap, or come up with a dumb plan that made no sense and didn't work. Including thinking it's no big deal that he lost the master emerald in space, because Sonic, just like his self-inserters, is low-iq
Where’s my clASSic character who can shoot (Bunnie) or wield a sword (Antoine)?
they're used as nostalgia bait
>Let's make the problem even worse in order to cater to my nostalgia.
Mighty and Ray are pointless too.
What "freedom" would the freedom fighters be fighting for in Classic?
Considering Sega refuses to establish recurring settings now even to the point Angel Island is effectively gone, that doesn't help for the freedom fighters, who are effectively locked to a setting.
>Considering Sega refuses to establish recurring settings now even to the point Angel Island is effectively gone,
what?
Its still there, but Sega hasn't given a frick about it since...Christ, Advance 3?
Frontiers. Knuckles talks about it constantly and he's clearly there in the Divergence prologue
Plus Sky Sanctuary is one of the levels they keep recycling.
Frontiers that game is 6 degrees incarnate.
What does that even mean
It probably means it references Tangle but not Sally so we're supposed to hate it.
Sticks, too.
I've never understood why Sticks is considered an outlier. She was made for the Boom games.
Sega was out to kill Boom from the day it was concepted.
Because like so many other incarnations of Sonic, Boom flopped, so people assumed stuff made for it would never come up again.
If Boom was a flop, why did Shattered Crystal get a sequel?
The DS game was the only one to sell not horrible, and it was a hail mary attempt to keep the series alive. Didn't work.
In other words, Boom wasn't a flop. Two seasons and three games which only one was a globally devastating human catastrophe.
It came, Sega made some money, it left like most Sonic side projects.
Sonic X was made by TMS (which SEGA currently owns) who produces the Lupin III series. Castle of Cogliostro was written and co-directed by Hayao Miyazaki who went to make Laputa (which was the inspiration for Angel Island). He had an apprentice named Hideki Anno who would make a spiritual successor to Laputa called Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water. When Gainax couldn't reclaim to rights to Nadia, Anno had Yoshiyuki Sadamoto simply reused the designs for his next project: Neon Genesis Evangelion (which coincidentally was sponsored by SEGA). 27 years later Sonic Frontiers is released with references to EVA, even hiring the same VAs for Rei.
Now I want expies of Asuka and Misato as Sonic Characters
>a raging b***h
Amy
>a drunk bawd
Vanilla
Not the same
If anybody would be a Sonic version of Asuka, it'd be Wave.
Actually yeah, that works better.
The show definitely was. That'll happen when it gets booted to a premium cable network no one has.
CN threw it into the 6am death slot. I feel confident in assuming more people watched it via pirating than on actual cable.
For season one.
Season two was exclusively on Boomerang.
>Vanilla
Hell yeah, I'm down for more of that MILF.
When was the last time Sega used her in a game? Sonic Rush?
They’re fighting to free their island from the rule of the Battle Kukku Empire. There, that solves that. That’s if they even have to be freedom fighters.
Chaotix weren’t detectives until the modern era, what reason do they have to still be a team after the events of Knuckles Chaotix?
The freedom fighters could theoritically exist in a vacumm game where SEGA of japan decides to narratively isolate Sonic (meaning no tails, no amy, no knuckles) wheere the kingdom of acorn in under occupation by eggman in a island far away feom everybody and sonic has the freedom fighters are there to replace his "usual" crew
thats the only i could see the FG coming back in, a totally isolated setting
All of the Freedom Fighters could work in a Sonic game, except Sally. It's being Freedom Fighters, which means being tied specifically to Sally and her family, that holds them back. Outside of that it'd be very easy.
Aside from a resistance being a dumbfrick idea in the games, as proven by Forces..
He's saying the characters could work in a game if they WEREN'T tied to Sally or the FF/Resistance crap.
They would be redesigned and rewritten to the point of asking themselves "why don't we just make new characters since we've changed so much anyway? Without the need to sort through legal paperwork too?"
That may be why they're rarely used in the first place, anon.
You're saying that as if there needs to be a leader. The only kind of leading that happens is within their three team groups or in a non permanent situation (the stupid Resistance) which already has two versions of the so-called important position of being a leader
Sally fans seem like the same type of person who demands Link maintain the characterization from the 80s cartoon.
Autists that cannot get over that first version of something they saw as a kid and will not accept any element of change from their own personal wants.
What's wrong? Sally can be adapted into the current Sega lore, very easily. Doesn't even have to be on the front lines or anything. Make her the mayor of a city. Boom. Doesn't even have to be involved with Sonic or 'freedom fighting'.
>What's wrong?
Sega doesn't want her or any trace of SatAM/Archie coming back. Ever.
Sega was also fiercly competetive with Nintendo now Mario and Sonic are cannonically friends.
And? Penders made the SatAM/Archie branch of Sonic toxic and Sega never wants to mention it again.
Ignoring that they never liked it to begin with.
Here's that fun 'Sega never liked the Freedom Fighters' claim. yet literally made puppets and costume characters of Sally for a theme park. When the series was starting out, they where fricking banking on SATAM, you zoomer.
Yeah, Sega OF AMERICA did. Sega of Japan never liked any of the US-made stuff (they hot down a Genesis game based on SatAM in seconds) and ditched it the minute they made the Adventure canon the real one. The comic kept going because, I dunno, it was easy advertising.
SEGA of Japan approved for their use in Archie’s reboot, approved their redesigns, the scripts, etc.
With a heavy sigh and a muttering of "this shit is not worth it" no doubt.
They were denied the usage of Underground, X and OVA characters though. AOSTH and SatAM were ok by them
That might have more to do with DiC and their policies around original characters of their own creation. They might have not let anyone else use their Underground characters for free and no one else is going to waste time or money on them either so they were dropped.
Didn't Ian want to write a proper conclusion to Sonic Underground when Archie was still going but he wasn't allowed to?
Yeah, it was going to be Universe issue 50. Sega said no.
DiC had no problems letting Archie continue to use AoStH and SatAM's characters. I think Sega just didn't want Underground brought up ever again, period.
Nothing is notable about Underground besides Sonic having siblings which would be a no-go since Sonic isn't supposed to have any family in the games. Unless you wanted those ugly messes like Sleet and Dingo to show up.
I liked Sleet and Dingo.
Sega of America owns the rights to SatAM/AoStH/Underground characters.
Sega said no to Underground because it's an embarrassment to anyone that isn't developmentally stunted, but they couldn't just say no to post-reboot Freedom Fighters because it was still technically the same comic that started as an adaption of SatAM and AoStH.
Probably because everyone in Sega thought
It's a nice extra thing to have, but that's all it will ever be. A nice extra thing. Archie is the Star Wars novels of Sonic. Non canon extra shit for the turbo fans that got sick of watching the same 3 movies over and over again and wanted something more.
There are 9 Star Wars movies before we even get into the other stuff like Clone Wars, Rogue One, and the Ewoks Adventures movies you fricking moron. Nothing you said is relevant.
The American comic kept going for the same reason IDW keeps going: Free Money
Sega gets paid a license fee and technically doesn't have to do shit. Toho is the same way with Godzilla (hence why IDW Godzilla is about lesbians and not godzilla). The difference is that Sega keeps an eye on IDW after the Penders situation. Sega wasn't so good with keeping contracts (hence why the OVA hasn't gotten a blu-ray release yet).
Adventure Canon was always the real one, the classic games lead directly into Adventure.
> 'Sega never liked the Freedom Fighters' claim. yet literally made puppets and costume characters of Sally for a theme park. When the series was starting out, they where fricking banking on SATAM, you zoomer.
In the fricking 90s when she relevant, you fricking nostalgiatard. Just because Sega is making merch of it doesn't mean it's relevant or enjoyed by them, see Sonic Boom's and Prime's merch.
I keep hearing about this from Sallygays but what theme park was it?
Some Australian thing.
That sounds like a suspiciously niche market.
Wasn't it Australia?
Now find a way around the "Sega hates Archie and buried its cast forever" hurdle.
This. Sally could just be the leader/representative of a setting Sonic is having an adventure in.
Make her gay too. So the Sonic/Amy shippers don't shit themselves in rage at the prospect of Sally talking to Sonic for one panel then doesn't appear for the rest of the comic.
So like Elise?
Because that worked so well.
Or Pauline in Mario Odyssey.
Pauline was never even a character to begin with, so molding her into a completely different role was never that difficult. Sally is firmly established in who she is and what motivates her, reducing her to a cameo where she's totally different is a piss poor solution that pleases nobody.
There's a difference.
>ELISE IS IMPORTANT TO THE PLOT, SONIC NEEDS TO BE KISSED BY HER
vs
>Sally, a pissed off mayor, telling the resistence to clean up their act for a panel and doesn't appear in the comic again until 20 issues later.
Kinda sounds like you're saying Sally is unnecessary and unimportant beyond your nostalgia for her and you just want a pity bone thrown at you for acknowledgement.
NTA but the whole thread is about whether or not Sally has a place in modern Sonic. He's just suggested a place, even if it's a minor one.
>No one can find a place for Sally in IDW's current lore!
>provide a place for her and even make it an unimportant one so people don't screech 'MARY SUE FORCED CHARACTER'
>um, that seems unimportant and doesn't count
OK, let's make her the ex-boss of Sheep breasts and the reason she wants to be a better leader. Only has a name drop, does that fit your autistic goal post moving better?
She's gonna get you.
So just make a totally different character that just so hapoens to ve named Sally? The frick is even the point then?
I don't understand why there is such a huge issue with her in the first place. A comic made by Americans is clearly just side material and nothing more. It will not and should not have any impact on what happens in the games...that are made by totally unrelated people in Japan. I do not understand why so many people attach levels of importance to a character that was only made to appear in a side comic.
Treat the comic like a fun little addition and then leave it at that. It's not all important extra lore the game developers forgot to add or could not be added due to cart space. It's just something extra you can look at if you want some more Sonic content. It has all the game lore importance as a package of stickers, or a t-shirt.
>Treat the comic like a fun little addition and then leave it at that.
Except for Sega's whole "everything is canon now" philosophy, which is already causing issues because Sonic Prime was a disaster.
Didn't they roll that back as well? Into a
>it's canon in the sense that there's a multiverse but Prime undoes itself at the end so you can just ignore that
Doesn't change the fact it presented Sonic as being moronic beyond acceptable limits and just straight up didn't fit, such as being shocked at the idea of Chaos Sonic despite the fact he fought multiple robot Sonics before.
I gotta be honest I am just operating on second hand knowledge since season one was so shit that I never got around to watching season 2.
That's not how Sega works, and you might have known that if you were even a Sonic fan in the first place. Since it;'s clear you are not, there is no point in bothering to argue with you. So that will be a
Frick off obvious newbie.
Because no one else except turbo autists give this much of a shit about the deep lore and what is/is not canon. Or bother to make arguments on what should be canon either.
That's the thing, no one within any official position in either studio cares about some American comic made character appearing or being perfectly in universe or not.
Because fricking have a nice day fence shitter.
Get fricked, homosexual
You disingenous butthole
i will break your fricking neck
I find it really funny we have the usual parroted argument of "NOONE CARES ABOUT SALLY SHUT UP SHUT UP" or shit like that, yet this thread sure garners a huge amount of salt over it at the same time.
As if this doesn't has suspicious amount of self-replying samegayging. Archie and SatAM really does mindbreak so many of you here.
The amount of autistic fricking seething this post has generated is amazing. Sonic fans really are the apex of spergy autistic homosexuals.
Let's see I can make a list of why this is bullshit
>No
>Fricking have a nice day
>You are a fence sitting homosexual
>Seriously, have a nice day
in that order.
Wow, people can actually care about a character that has been a part of the franchise since almost the beginning and stuck around for nearly 20 years afterward. and actually want to see more of them in later material too.
Fricking wild how that works huh? Almost like that perfectly describes what is a fandom of a franchise.
Archie and especially SatAm characters would never have been allowed to exist without a stamp of approval from Sega. It's not like Archie blindsided them with Sally, Bunny, Snivley etc out of nowhere. They appeared in a few games, a few parks, and Sega did make an announcement that all aspects of Sonic tie in games, movies, books and the like are canon. Everything, so they definitely knew and liked the Freedom Fighters, and wrapped a game around the very concept years ago.
Because they are fricking fans of a multi decade long run.
Why not ask why are people fans of Spider-Man while we are at it.
Reminder that ABT slipped a Sally cameo in the Forces prequel comic and got a harsh reprimand from Sega for it.
He also put Poppy Opossum in it.
Wish Morbi didn't lose it so hard.
Wasn't it not so much Sally as it was a flyer that mentioned Knothole Village and Sega reamed him for so much as even mentioning a SatAM/Archie location?
Pretty sure it was a photo of her. I think.
And Jon Gray nearly got an issue delayed because he put "Knothole" on a cover.
Did this make it to print because I just skimmed the Forces prequel comic and didn't see anything.
https://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/post/656623560419393536/i-heard-a-rumor-that-adam-bryce-thomas-landed-in
Huh. I'll be damned.
Well shit Sallygays got what they wanted then. What's their problem?
It's not enough for them.
Sega slapped them back down afterwards.
I think Ian, Jon, and ABT vaguely alluded that there's a reason why people don't do references to Archie anymore.
Underground wasn't a part of the licensing deal (AoStH and SatAM were) and Sega must have denied it when asked, same for the OVA. X was marketed as a different part of the brand which was why Cream wasn't allowed to be used at first because she was restricted there for whatever reason.
I'm gonna say how it works between manga and original adaptations. Admittedly, I'm not totally sure if it also translates to game/tv show but I get the feeling it works like it so:
TMS likely owns Cosmo and whichever character that doesn't appear in the games. Sure Sega owns TMS but that doesn't give them the right to use their original characters willy-nilly because presumably there's an agreement within their contract that prevents shit like that. The way it works for manga and anime adaptations that add in original stuff is that the studio owns any OCs they create and story plotlines that do not occur in the source material.
If this rings true with game/TV shows of course, this doesn't mean they own some version of Sonic since it's still Sega's property but things specific ideas like Dark Sonic might be owned by TMS because it's an original concept (lol). I remember someone on Frontiers who was answering questions by fans saying that Dark Sonic was "X material" which sort of implies this rule. All they really need to do is ask for permission to use it but obviously there would be royalties to discuss and Sega likely thinks it wouldn't be worth it for a transformation they can remake like Darkspine Sonic. I think this is the main reason why Cosmo and the Metarex aren't used, because TMS owns them and they'd have to dish out royalties to use them.
Here's where I got the info from: https://monolith.law/en/general-corporate/copyright-infringement-precedent
I don't hate Lanolin but Ariem is goat.
I'm guessing she's not really that stacked.
Sadly no, and I can't post her official art because the image is too dam big.
Is it true Starline was and still is only popular because he was gay as Springtime?
Does the IDW Sonic comics update yearly? I swear there hasn't been another issue since January
They've had a Fang mini series going on in place of the main book to coincide with a game that was released last year.
Also the next arc has already been spoiled by solicits.
Ah I see. I thought it got cancelled or something
How's the Fang comic so far?
It's standard for IDW, a whole lot of nothing.
It uses the Warp Topaz, so thats kinda neat.
Its on break for the Fang 4-issue mini.
The main IDW comic is on hiatus until the Fang miniseries wraps up.
What the frick that shit isnt done yet? when the frick did super stars release i swear its been like 5 months hasnt it?
She's triggering to both incels and not-muh autists.
IT'S MY IP TO SIT ON AND DO NOTHING WITH
No Ritsuko expy?
Wasn't she gay?
Sally.
You're thinking of Maya, who was last-second gay for Ritsuko just before she got turned into Tang.
What is it about this character that causes so much division in the Sonic fandon?
Are they allowed to say israelites are suffering these days?
Very. They're even free up israelites to shore up the fight.
So does that mean Knuckles is israeli?
No, Knuckles is an Angel-Island Echidna. SEGA never in it's whole history even hinted at him being anything other than an Angel-Island Echidna. He has his own culture, his own history, his own beliefs. Period.
Then why is he always black?
He's not. He's a nerdy white boy outside the movies.
He's not black, he's an Angel-Island Echidna. But, if you want to play this game, then fine, to me, he sounds like a bulky white dude who likes to lift. So if anything, Knuckles is a buff white guy.
That sounds like race erasure to me.
unlike you, I like to escape into a fantasy world, not bring needless baggage into it. Knuckles will always be KNUCKLES. Not black, not white, not arab, or w/e bullshit that's here in the real world.
But YOU'RE wanting to erase African American characteristics is bringing your own baggage into it. He has a very specific characterization that you seem to want to have removed entirely. I cannot help but wonder, why is that one race based issue something you seem to have umbrage with and want removed.
wait, How is Knuckles black if his ancestors are all mayan/aztec themed and he is literally an Islander? lol
Is purely because of the rap music themes. people like him a shallow asf.
don't forget the dreadlocks and the fact he's aggresive. Like it's even weirder cause he's only recently had actors that are even black. it'd be like if I said Blaze was hindu coded cause she has a red dot, it's silly and kinda ignores any context
He has quills, not dreadlocks, friend and "he's aggressive" or "he's dumb" aren't uniquely Black traits either. Also, Blaze has a red israeliteel on her head, not a dot and her kingdom is more of a European style in architecture, so no, she's not a Hindu.
Are people like you just incapable of imagining a culture that isn't uniquely Human or something??
.......dude, that was my point, I was saying how it'd be stupid to apply human cultural lenses based on nothing to anthro characters/non humans. You literally took the opposite point of what I was saying holy shit lmao
Sorry, I misread what you said. I take it back. I thought you were being combative towards me. Sometimes I get shit mixed up.
ha your all good, just gave me a decent laugh is all and do agree with what you mean. There are characters who aren't human that may have some coding or influence from human society, race or culture but Knuckles really isn't definitely or accurately black coded in anyway. Do recall my friends never let me live down the fact I argued how Martian Manhunter is somewhat black coded as I did say he was very much black person shaped in those exact words
Well, your friends had good heads on their shoulders at the time. lol. People have just gotten to caught up in racial crap. Back when I grew up in the 90s and very early 00s, no one said anything remotely close to "color-coded" or something like that. What was, "was". Like, that Alien, was an Alien, ya know?
I miss the days where fiction was a place to escape reality from.
suppose can't disagree as annoyed and disgusted by all the gay crap people are trying to push on Godzilla and Kong recently in memes or fanart, just genuinely find it gross despite being fine with gay people and some being friends I know. Suppose it's sorta like how hard Aliens have been sidelines in Star Wars in favor of just focusing on diverse people in a shallow way which makes universe feel smaller in a sense
Not only does that make the universe feel smaller, but it becomes boring and bland as hell.
yeah, I genuinely might actually check any recent Star Wars stuff if it had a solid alien focused story or plotline. I don't mean alien who is just a human but different colour or had head thingys, I'm talking a proper full on inhuman space creature like an Ithorian, Trandoshan or that one yeti with the space minigun and the respirator who looks like Xemnu if he was in the MCU
Good luck with that, Disney Star Wars is even more of just a Human drama than George Lucas' was. I personally wouldn't recommend it, but you do what you must, friend.
Mando s1 had a decent focus on a pig guy, and he wasn't a joke character like usual.
Ahsoka features herself plus Hera and Thrawn, but they're just humans with weird skin colors and some head appendage.
>the dreadlocks
>he's aggresive
>the rap music themes
Wait a minute... how come whenever someone wants to point a character is "something-coded", they resort to point out superficial stereotypical elements of a culture?
Because "coded" has become the new word for "stereotype".
Only these are good stereotypes, because they are made/projected by the right people.
Because "Colored People" is now "People of Color".
The people who denounce racism and just being racist in their own "polite" way.
What are you even talking about? What.
Read this
Also, shit like this
People literally considering the color on their face stubbles as the race of their character, it's absolutely moronic. Pic related:
Is this cat a white person because of the white fur on it's mouth/chin?
What. Cartoons aren't reality. It's a drawing.
You're missing the point entirely. The little chin fuzz on their faces, does not represent their race or w/e nonsense. It never did that. It's just a cartoon design choice. When I was younger, no one gave a frick about this race crap. This divisive shit is so goddamn toxic and it's these champions of "diversity and inclusion" that turn out to be the ones pushing division by only pointing out the differences in people.
It's wrong on so many levels and you're asking: "What are you even talking about? What."
Give me a break.
Cartoons can mean anything. They aren't real.
They're as arbitrary as real racial divisions.
That's why this whole talk about whether Knuckles is israeli or Black is completely moronic and arbitrary and in it's own right, racist as frick.
Is just more divisive bullshit to get people to hate each other.
Someone still had to arbitrator decisions.
Choices were made to communicate ideas.
Ideas don't exist in a vacuum from society.
This is like "Why are the curtains blue".
>Choices were made to communicate ideas.
NTA, but what are those ideas, according to you?
That is a trick question, cause cat has fur down the nuzzle. If we shave the cat, what color do we find?
So the skin tone of the cat determines whether it's a black man or a white man or w/e the frick? Seriously? It's a cat.
>Seriously?
Nope, I was just shitposting. But, if we speak seriously for a moment, I wouldn't be surprised the "champions" of inclusivity would go those lengths to disprove, say... Blaze, as a white character.
These are the same people that say Knuckles and Rouge are colored because of the faulty lighting in SA2B that made their skin-toned parts look darker.
No, they say she's Hindu or w/e. I think I know why Sonic gets so much shit in media recently.
morons are seeing him as "white" and thus, get butt hurt about it, it's the same reason why Silver gets shit on in the comics, the writers probably see him as "white-coded" or w/e.
It's all so moronic.
>No, they say she's Hindu or w/e.
Yeah, I said "disprove" as a white character.
Because heavens forgive us if an artist draws a human Blaze with white skin... (being sarcastic, btw).
I hear ya. I always draw them with their fur anyway. Just thinking of Blaze having her purple fur shaved off makes me cringe.
You drew this? Reminds me of early Darkspeeds.
aye, I don't draw very often anymore because of work, but still, it's a nice hobby.
I really need to try to find the time to draw more.
pssst, if you drew this you should totally do some Sally and Mordred Hood hypno content
Hmm, I could always draw more Sally and if and when I get the time, I will. I'll post it on the /sthg/ booru eventually, or a separate Sonic thread, since this thread is close to it's end. I'll jot your idea down.
radical, I genuinely didn't think you'd humour me on that, I just really like this dumb pair between two characters I like, I guess it's just that sneering villain and defiant heroine dynamic gets me going.
I'm somewhat of a "dominating a dominate heroine" enjoyer myself. It's all good. lol.
ah great minds and all that, had this done by Chaoscroc with my own designs for the 2 funny enough before he wiped his DA
Very nice taste. lol. I'll try to throw up at least a sketch before this thread kicks the bucket. Also, a shame people just nuke their accounts, but I understand.
it's the whole protest against the big man thing, I don't get it as you can just stop posting stuff but leave your content up on the site but I just repost commissions i've ordered with permission so what do I know, also thanks dude genuinely for planning on the sketch, real decent of you
k, got it sketched, just need to add in some contrast, i.e. the dark bits of his armor for example. Just had to figure out the posing. lol.
badass my good sir, be sure to post when can as need something to hype me up before go to job lmao. Posing is always the toughest to figure but also the most fun to figure or plot out
His ancestors were pre-colonial, I think that's the rationalization, anyway.
Where it gets really awkward is that somehow the Mayan chief and the Roman emperor were in a dick-waving contest over half a world away, and somehow one side had hypertech Golems so the other had to commit sudoku by trampling the Chao and pissing off their big brother demigod just to break even.
>Mayan
>Roman
You mean, the Angel Island Echidnas and w/e the other tribe was, right?
NTA, but yeah he's talking about the Nocturnus Clan being akin to Imperial Rome.
I thought people considered that "non-canon" so I wrote them off. Fair enough. The Nocturnus Clan are my favorite faction. Love 'em.
You mean the Rome stuff or the Nocturnus themselves?
Anyway, yeah, I love them too. Too bad we will probably never see them again.
Well, maybe SEGA will grow some balls and take Ken Penders on, ya never know.
But people make it a racial thing and I doubt that was the original creators' intention when they made this franchise to begin with. People have turned this crap into talking points and political tools they can use against other people. Inspiration should stay just that when designing a character, whether a cartoon cat is "black" or w/e is completely pointless.
I honestly think this because white is seen as the default.
This is a greater societal problem, it's like blaming video games for violence.
With Knuckles they just wanted vaguely ethnic rural island guy.
>"White" has been the default.
Ok, first, Sonic is just Sonic, he's not White, second, he's a Japanese creation and lastly:
How the frick is being "White" a societal problem?
>How the frick is being "White" a societal problem?
They are the bad guys according to modern left narrative. Get on with the times, dude.
Well, I know, but the fact people think this way just pisses me off. It's such a waste of time, it's childish, tribal drivel that I was raised to believe people grew out of.
If you're against racial exclusion you should be against the concept of white.
Both Italians and Irish weren't considered white.
There were Italian and Irish ghettos, it's where the concept of the Mafia came from.
Now we all pretend it was always "white culture".
I am against the concept of "Black Man" and "White Man". Those phrases alone are old relics of racist trash.
Are you really racial abolitionist anon?
Or do you use it ignore discrimination?
Ok you're just pretending to be moronic.
As as people are discriminated for being black you can't end the concept of blackness.
>concept of blackness
Look at what you typed for a moment. We are Human beings and we have are differences, but we can overcome them. Racism ends when we accept our differences, find our similarities and then move on. No further discussion. No further tension. We accept and move on. For people who celebrate "black history" you have completely forgotten about what MLK and people like him tried to convey.
There was no discrimination from the 70s to the 2010s. You know why?
Because people like you won't shut the frick up. Discrimination begins when people obsess over what makes us different.
>Ok you're just pretending to be moronic
Or maybe I am? So, by all means, be the bigger man, and enlighten me on how Italians and Irish not being considered white (something I have not denied, in case I gave you that impression) has to do with Japanese developers wanting a "rural island guy"?
>Both Italians and Irish weren't considered white
You lost me there, what does that have to do with Japanese developers wanting a "rural island guy"?
Why do people like yourself still don't get it?
>With Knuckles they just wanted rural island guy.
FIFY, nobody cared about ethnic back in those days, specially Japanese developers.
Also to answer your question, both. Rome and the Nocturnus are very fascinating to me.
No race of people owns a characteristic. Just because a person listens to rap, doesn't mean they're "Black". Just because a person creates a civilization, doesn't mean they're "White".
>That sounds like race erasure to me.
Knuckles literally has white skin on his muzzle.
Thanks to the live action stuff it's not entirely clear if that's supposed to be skin or not.
He sounds like a tough honorable masculine guy in the movies. Apparently you think only black people can be like that
>Knuckles is black-coded
is black-coded
Yes
I’m not even mad
It’s actually really fricking funny
>simple question about Sally
>very long thread full of shitflinging
Many such cases.
/sthg/ and it's consequences have been a disaster to Sonic discussion
Are they still obsessed with Trip?
Mindbroken
>anti archie cucks be like
She was the town bawd.
but enough about Bunnie
Geez, Tails damn near evened the score on Sonic.
imadeknucklesimadeknucklesimadeknucklesimadeknuckles
Which Sonic girl has the biggest ass?
Bunnie Rabbot or Rouge.
Bunnie's ass is metal, it doesn't count.
Only up to her lower hips are metal. Her cheeks and pussy are not metal.
Whisper
Post proof.
Too cute for this world.
>walks around basically naked
>wears a nightgown to bed
>ctrl - f "antithetical"
>already 4 matches
>ctrl - f "relevant"
>6
>ctrl -f "melodram"
>4
>nearly every single post here repeats already a variant of "DURRRR I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS CHARACTER" or "SHES IRRELEVANT" like this hasn't been told for the 1000000th time
Please earn unique opinions and stop parroting shit just because you want to look cool in a anonymous shit-stirring imageboard. Yes, I'm talking to you, /sthg/ morons.
>OP asks question
>people answer question
crazy thing to happen huh
Yes, it is indeed a crazy thing these threads here tend to suspiciously hound the same ever kind of people down to recognizing their wording and posting habits and images they use, ultimately making it into a circlejerk, to the point they don't even tell Boco to frick off.
You're saying find new ways to hate Sally?
It'd be much easier to just stop making this same lame thread over and over.
How would you describe people's issues with Sally's romances and THE SLAP without the word "melodrama?" How would you point out that the game cast is frickhuge and doesn't need a team leader character without the word "relevant?"
People use those words because they apply to Sally. I don't even hate the character, and I think she could be written well, but she had a lot of shitty arcs back in Archie and doesn't have much of a place in the modern franchise.
>How would you describe people's issues
Why are you projecting on others to begin with?
I'm not projecting anything, those are common criticisms I see of Sally. You just posted about how everyone was repeating those criticisms.
>those are common criticisms
According by who, Anonymous? Yeah, according by a dozen or so of 30 year old vagabonds off these same thousand threads coupling the same exact kind of people over and over, which truly represents in grand scheme the """audience""".
moron. I bet you also think Twitter is the audience.
THE SLAP and the creepy Geoffrey romance are widely hated on Twitter, on Tumblr, on everywhere you fricking moron. They're some of the most infamous parts of the Archie comic, next to Titan Tails and Knuckles getting microwaved. There's a reason we have a two-word shorthand for that moment that everyone recognizes.
>archie archie archie
Shove that shitty comic book up your ass. People are more likely to watch the SatAM episodes on youtube than to look for those.
I do like the freedom fighters but I'll make an argument for why it would be hard to bring them back:
>Bunnie's rabbit design look inconsistent with Vanilla and Cream
>Not even the cartoon writers cared about Rotor, and he fulfills a similar role to Tails
>Antoine was a french mockery and current SEGA might not want to have something like him
>The dragon girl was annoying as hell
>Sally lost her spot as "the girl" of the franchise over 25 years ago and her existence is tied to some very specific worldbulding
The only way I see them working now is to have the Kingdom of Acorn be a specific region and have some Sonic adventure take place there. There is no need for the rebellion plot, they could be used like the regulars are. Also, using their latter visual depictions from the comics would probably be the way to keep the art style consistent.
Nice of you to stop your tempertantrum from Cinemaphile to come visit us.
I barely visit Cinemaphile, I'm a Cinemaphiletard
Cinemaphile isn't representative of large scale audiences you moron
The free SatAM episodes get less than 1 million views on YouTube, you gay. Nobody cares about that show.
Christ, Cinemaphile told you to frick off now you're shitting and seething here?
>Shove that shitty comic book up your ass. People are more likely to watch the SatAM episodes on youtube than to look for those.
Considering Archie's been storytimed like 4 times here, I think you're full of shit.
>Bunnie's rabbit design look inconsistent with Vanilla and Cream
You think that's bad? Look up Arlo the Armadillo and compare her design to Mighty's.
>The only way I see them working now is to have the Kingdom of Acorn be a specific region and have some Sonic adventure take place there.
This, there's no other reason to use Sally or the FFs. Just have the Kingdom of Acorn as a setting for Sonic to have adventures in, with Sally as the Princess and the FFs as her Royal Guard or some shit.
There's different species of rabbits. Bunnie and Vanilla could be different species.
's rabbit design look inconsistent with Vanilla and Cream
You're saying that as an insurmountable problem in a franchise where literally every major classic era character has been redesigned.
Read the last phrase in my post.
>Bunnie's rabbit design look inconsistent with Vanilla and Cream
SatAM and Classic have different design philosophies so I'm not surprised but it could be reworked. If there were ever a chance I hope they don't make her the same honestly, I hated how they eventually made Bunnie resemble Cream and Vanilla, they're lops while Bunnie has erect ears like Carrottia. The said witchcarter herself shares no resemblance to any of them which leaves her looking unique. Bunnie was clearly wearing eyeshadow in her early incarnations but then it morphed into eye spots like Cream and Vanilla, who wears eyeshadow herself. Pic related.
i want a sonic setting with ALL characters.
>jannies allow this but not Knuckles show threads
Mmm
Sally is a comic-exclusive character, but the Knux show is a live-action show.
Because Knuckles' show isn't about Knuckles, just same lame human named Wade.
Anon, are you moronic?
I wonder if this thread will die before or after it hits the bump limit.
The Ride mindbroke you.
Seek help, move on and stop seething on Cinemaphile and Cinemaphile.
Show the ip count kek
>No
>Moot, probably
How many years this schizoid having been at it?
1? 2?
7
This talk reminds me of Sonic Prime.
Sonic was really stupid in that show.
He' usually written as a flat character.
But they had him learn basic morals.
"flat characters" are not a thing, they just don't write him at all unless it's to make him a mary sue and for every other character suck the corporate mascot's dick. See: Frontiers
Flat characters are a thing. They facilitate other people's narrative arcs.
The only game Sonic had his own arc was maybe Unleashed. It's tied to
Chip's arc about identity with his amnesia with Sonic turning into a slow monster.
no, that's some moronic term someone who has never read anything other than sonic made up. Other characters have narratives because they are the real characters, "flat characters" are just background elements in the real characters' stories. Sonic just isn't written going on any journey because he's a soulless corporate mascot.
Flat characters are characters who already self actualized.
They're perfect for stories like Sonic that will never end.
He meets new friends on a adventure they learn a lesson and he leaves
Exactly like Lupin from Lupin the 3rd, it happens every movie and it works.
no, that's mario.
>What is it about this character that causes so much division in the Sonic fandom?
?t=3
when will Sonic add reptile women who actually look like reptiles
The same time they add birds with actual wings.
Whats wrong with Trip?
I don't hate Trip, she is pretty cute enough. I just want a curvy scaled women with a more reptilian design as feel you can have reptile Sonic characters that look more like their animal such as the case with Vector or Mordred
Hey, if you can get into Sega's mind and make some semblance of sense of it, more power to you.
sadly I haven't got insidious hypno powers or hired goons to strong arm my ideas into sega but cheers Boco, broken clock as they say
Trip along with israeliteel are among the better additions to the Sonic franchise imo. They're at least cute and seem to not be placed to spread some cringe-worthy message or fetish.
It's also nice to have more kiddo Sonic characters instead of just lonely ol' Cream and Tails. Cute is great, cute makes the World less dreary.
yeah, oddly I tend to latch onto the really minor and niche Sonic characters like Mordred Hood, Collie Chang, Princess Gwendolyn and Akhult, usually cause they are animals I like that are underused or are cute girls want to see more in the traditional Sonic style.
It also helps that she's feminine and has a unique characterization in comparison to the other ladies in that comic especially. A lady acting feminine in fiction is as rare as a Unicorn these last few years and I appreciate her all the more.
yeah she seems alright though shame she can't appear or do much cause of her less action heavy role. How do you feel about redesigns that make her look more insect/beetle like but till relatively in style? I quite like them and reminds me how insects I also want to be repped more in Sonic
If Charmy Bee can fit, then israeliteel definitely fits with the style.
true, honestly I think Charmy could fit to look more like a bee to since actual Bee's are adorable even if one stung my belly. Also she is rocking that outfit right there mate
So was this game only really made because it rustled way too many jimmies at Sega of Japan that some dumb americans made a classic Sonic game and it was successful?
I see they even included anime cutscenes here and there
More or less.
Aye. If Americans aren't hampered by some mind virus, then they can make some good content.
No, this game happened because at the start of Covid Iizuka started talking to old friends again, including Ohshima, and they went "hey, Ohshima has a game studio!". SoJ was never against Mania, that's anons being schizos, Iizuka was the one that pushed Mania into becoming Mania, we outright have interviews where Taxman talks how they were making Mania 2 until the newly formed Evening Star just disagreed on the direction of the game with Sonic Team and thus mostly left the project, though helping Arzest in technical aspects here and there.
Huggable little daughter-fu.
Bow down to Amy, she is clearly superior to the squirrel. Sally never shows up in the fan comics like Tails Gets Trolled or Sonichu. What now, Sally fans? Got anything to say for yourselves?
>showing up in tails gets trolled
>a good thing
if there's any character people are more divided or negative on, then it's Amy for sure, she is superior in that aspect suppose
There's no competetion here. Its like kicking a dead horse. Amy stayed up to modern times, Sally isn't even canon anymore.
RougeAmy is superior to Amy.
I win.
At being the worst female character, yes.
The only thing Sally deserves is to be chained up in my garage, pregnant and lactating. Every time she gives birth I’ll put another brat in her.
>is supposed to be a squirrel
>looks like a chipmunk
what did archie comics mean by this?
They were just doing what DiC did, which is not give a frick.
I must be fricked in the head, but for some reason, I like Surge as well as Blaze. I guess I just like ladies with a bit of fire in their eye.
But Surge would most likely bite your dick off.
b-but I can fix her...
Aye, I suppose that's part of it for me too.
You can't fix her, Anon.
just use hypnosis to fix her duh
I like how both of them have massive foreheads and tied up hair.
Nothing without risk
always remember to frick surge with a rubber condom
"I didn't remind him about the condom... hue hue~"
Isn't she lesbian for Amy?
No, that's just fans being fans.
I don't follow the comic or the fans anymore for that matter.
I just like the character designs and the few unique parts of their personality, it's just a shame the writers are dogshit-tier most of the time and write almost all of the female characters to be the same, boring strong girlboss lesbian/bi-sexual trope. What a waste.
Aside from Surge genuine going "you... really mean that, don't you?" at Amy when she offered to let her and Kit stay with the Restoration (which Amy later revealed is less offering friendship and more just trying to keep an eye on them) there isn't a single reason to believe Surge is either in love with Amy or even a lesbian.
But knowing Evan, that's probably enough.
I remember when Ian and Evan promised that Surge and Kit weren't going to have a redemption arc and I knew they were full of shit. It's just the kind of people they are.
Everything about them is is faker than the imaginary characters they're writing about. Disgusting people.
That was only Ian, Evan didn't promise shit.
Ian's comments even had an air of knowing Evan would do it too.
Then why even discuss it at all? I hate these kinds of people. Such insufferable buttholes.
i mean, i can certainly get it. there's tons to love with girls like them. should know considering i basically started liking surge just what I've heard online
plus fanart, of course.
i'd cuddle the frick out of her.
guys I love Sally Acorn I wanna frick her in the ass without lube then make her suck me clean after
Thinking about it, I'm probably the only moron who likes Sally the most as a character but prefers Amy as a love interest. I think Sonally was cute in SatAM but I don't see they being happy in the long term.
surge
correction