Weird relationship with God (which was ahistorical by the way, IRL he was a married manprostitute with mistresses).
However, contemporary reports of Mozart describe him from "serious with a silly side" to "completely fricking deranged but took music seriously". What was Mozart's problem?
Never once in the movie did they let the audience hear his music because that would have completely undermined the narrative that he was "mediorcre."
He may have been second best but given what time period he was in that's nothing to be ashamed of. And more importantly, he was Europe's most accomplished music instructor. His most famous student was Beethoven who was just as great of a musical genius as Mozart, and that's also something the movie never mentions either.
Amadeus is one of the greatest movies of all time. However, it's important to know that it's a work of fiction with a historical background, not a true story.
Salieri is honestly one of the worst composers I've heard. If you think that is good, you need more familiarity with classical music. They also play an excerpt from his best opera in the fricking movie. What the frick anon!
This is the problem with historical dramas. Dumbasses think they're factual.
Mozart was a child prodigy. His father dragged him around the courts of Europe as a sideshow attraction and he gained quite a bit of fame and money in the process. As he got older and wasn't the 5 year old child composer novelty anymore, the money dried up and he never fully adjusted. He died relatively young for the time but he left behind a wealth of music.
>Never once in the movie did they let the audience hear his music
they literally did, i still remember how it sounded too, they showed him composing it
No. He tells us what he *thinks* his problem is without ever coming close to the truth. His problem is that he thinks God will reward him on Earth for a life of sacrifice and asceticism, for living the life of some sort of musical monk, only such a life deprives him of the life experience you need to produce great art, and what’s worse - his humility, his piety is a facade. He revels in the comforts and luxuries of the court, his momentary fame, all the while allowing his passions and desires to curdle into an envy that poisons every aspect of his existence, totally oblivious to the fact that the biggest obstacle standing in his way is himself. He is squandering God’s greatest gift, and it isn’t talent: it’s life itself. Meanwhile, Mozart is out making the most of it and expressing his joys and sorrows and longings through his music.
He was the only one who truly understood Mozart's genius and was chosen by God to help him out. Instead, he saw it as God mocking him and aimed to destroy His greatest gift.
I've never thought of it like that, you're absolutely right. If he had a shred of humility he could have fulfilled his role and find inner peace. But he felt entitled to bargain with God for the gift of talent and when that didn't work out as he expected (even though he was extremely accomplished by most metrics) he decided to reject God.
Are you serious? I'm pretty sure it is literally said like that in the movie. At some point he says something that he was the only one who noticed Mozart's genius from the start but played it down in front of others because they weren't sure about it
That part is pretty obvious, I was referring to the idea that God chose him to help Mozart and make his music reach as many people as possible. If Salieri really cared about the music instead of being praised and acknowledged by others, he could have been a conduit of God's divinity, just in a different way than Mozart. In my original interpretation I though the moral of the story was that you should accept the role given to you in life and bear your cross with humility, and that is still part of it in the movie, but its extra tragic when you think that God indeed gave Salieri a very important and noble role and he rejected it because he felt entitled to being the direct vessel for the divine.
Anyone one else think Mozart was a total c**t with no class or tact? Everyone knows that if you’re really good at something you don’t rub it in peoples faces or shame other people who are less talented than them by mocking their own efforts in their face. That part where he alters and improvise Salieri’s tune in front of him was just rude. Was Mozart autistic or something and had no sense for social cues?
>Was Mozart autistic or something and had no sense for social cues?
I would say missing the social cues. Keep in mind that he didn't have a normal childhood since his father trained him in music since birth. Mozart never got to play with other children and learn those social cues.
That was the point of the movie, basically. Salieri felt insulted by God for how talented Mozart was even though he was an idiotic manchild.
The story is fiction although the real Mozart was terrible with money and probably was a bit of an autistic butthole. He left his wife penniless and nobody knows where he was actually buried because the cheap ass cemetery forgot which casket was his when they buried him.
>That part where he alters and improvise Salieri’s tune in front of him was just rude. Was Mozart autistic or something and had no sense for social cues?
he probably didnt even realize because he was caught up in playing the song and trying to improve it as if it were his own
I don't think he was being intentionally rude but I can understand Salieri's frustration over it happening right in front of the emperor. It would've been okay if they were just playing each others music in a private setting.
Yeah, it definitely wasn't intentional. Even at the party, I don't think him playing Salieri like a water-brain was meant to be all that insulting. I'm sure Mozart figured he was there, and was just giving a person he considered a friend (or at least a colleague) a bit of a roast. I can see why Salieri would take everything he did as an insult though. He sees Mozart and knows in his heart that he'll never be that good, so it feels like mocking.
The only time he was outright an butthole was when he imitated Salieri’s scowl while playing, but being in a party he was probably just trying to do an Impression to amuse people than personal dislike.
He is pretty famous and a great actor though, I would be surprised if he doesn't get cheered at all the time. I think this is a case of him just being a nice man
He plotted Mozart's downfall until, ultimately, he realized that, in destroying his mortal enemy, he was actually depriving the world of an unwritten oeuvre of unparalleled musical genius
The last part in which he’s genuinely exhilarated at working with Mozart (way too late, tho) in supporting the act of composition as equals, instead of seething at his perceived inferiority, is absolute kino and hits way too close to home.
Did you guys completely miss that he actually admired Mozart and was looking forward to working with him UNTIL Mozart completely shat on his work in front of the emperor?
Yes, he let Mozart live rent-free in his head after that and shouldn't have let it get to him as much as he did for his own sake but he was completely justified in taking revenge and in the end Salieri did LITERALLY nothing wrong.
I do like how they showed Salieri was better at composing things the general population would like. Salieri took it as an insult when Mozart off-handedly said "Maybe you could teach me that", but in the next opera scene, they show that Mozart wrote a song that ended in a way that let the audience know to clap.
I also like that they showed the gap between them wasn't all that large in the Requiem composition scene. Sure, Salieri couldn't keep up with the dictation, but that's because he was thinking about how he would write it. Once Mozart explained his thought process, he was right back on track. He had the talent, but it was second nature to Mozart
>Mozart's music gets middling reception at best by audiences >Salieri's work gets called the best opera ever by the emperor, and the audience seems to agree >Salieri knows this isn't true and his frustration at people not seeing the greatness he sees in Mozart only feels like further taunting from God to him
They really nailed this character
One of the best aspects of the ending is that right before Mozart dies, when the two of them are in Mozart's bedroom, Salieri realizes that they're more similar in spirit and their love of music than anyone else. When he does the dictation he's clearly lost his drive to actually kill Mozart, and sees that working together can be meaningful for both of them. Of course, God takes that from him too, or at least that's how he reflects on it.
>Mozart's music gets middling reception at best by audiences >Salieri's work gets called the best opera ever by the emperor, and the audience seems to agree >Salieri knows this isn't true and his frustration at people not seeing the greatness he sees in Mozart only feels like further taunting from God to him
They really nailed this character
The Salieri in the movie is basically Frank Grimes. He devoted himself to the craft, sacrificed all personal interests including romance for the sake of music and teaching. He did everything "right" that the Church and society extols to the masses; except it flies out the window when Mozart can get by with massive talent and being an unscrupulous guy. And because he played by the rules, he got butthurt that he got "cheated".
He didnt realize he was ALSO blessed and chosen by god. Not to be the fire/talent/mozart jesus, but to be the first to recognize him, ie be the prophet/guide/john the baptist.
If this movie has a flaw is that it doesnt finish with him coming to this realization and understanding of god's plan. He was chosen, he was loved, he was the only one who could see mozart's talent and truly understand it.
I don't particularly see that as a flaw. He was never a truly pious man (constantly making demands of God, bargaining with Him, only wanting to be devout for his own glory). Salieri ended up learning an equally important lesson. It's okay to not be the greatest (even if he did prop himself up as the greatest of the non-greats)
Daily reminder that the film is literal historical slander and it was in fact Mozart (and his dad) who were seething about Salieri.
Remember this competition by the king? Well, Salieri won it in real life and Mozart seethed and b***hed so much he literally COPIED salieris piece kek.
no rizz
he loved traveling to mexico when he was young for hookers
>26 minutes
homie ain't no one have time for that
reminder, age of consent in old mexico was 13.
Weird relationship with God (which was ahistorical by the way, IRL he was a married manprostitute with mistresses).
However, contemporary reports of Mozart describe him from "serious with a silly side" to "completely fricking deranged but took music seriously". What was Mozart's problem?
>which was ahistorical
The entire movie is, it's not going for accuracy.
If you don't understand Salieri then you've never truly lived.
Literally no one likes a*strians
he literally spends 3 FRICKING HOURS to tell you exactly and in great length and detail what his problem is you fricking idiot!
Never once in the movie did they let the audience hear his music because that would have completely undermined the narrative that he was "mediorcre."
He may have been second best but given what time period he was in that's nothing to be ashamed of. And more importantly, he was Europe's most accomplished music instructor. His most famous student was Beethoven who was just as great of a musical genius as Mozart, and that's also something the movie never mentions either.
Amadeus is one of the greatest movies of all time. However, it's important to know that it's a work of fiction with a historical background, not a true story.
Salieri is honestly one of the worst composers I've heard. If you think that is good, you need more familiarity with classical music. They also play an excerpt from his best opera in the fricking movie. What the frick anon!
kek, I read your comment before listening and it does sound plain, uninspired, and confused, but I wonder if you tainted my impression
Second best was Haydn at the time. And third best was Bocherinni. Salieri isn't even in the top 20 of Mozart's contemporaries.
He was mediocre compared to Mozart and Salieri knew it
Actually he didn't know it. He barely even knew Mozart. Mozart wasn't very famous until the 20th century, aside from in composing circles.
This is the problem with historical dramas. Dumbasses think they're factual.
Mozart was a child prodigy. His father dragged him around the courts of Europe as a sideshow attraction and he gained quite a bit of fame and money in the process. As he got older and wasn't the 5 year old child composer novelty anymore, the money dried up and he never fully adjusted. He died relatively young for the time but he left behind a wealth of music.
everybody was medicore compared to mozart that's the point, you can't beat autistic savants
he plays his own tunes to the priest in the beginning.
Are you moronic
>Never once in the movie did they let the audience hear his music
they literally did, i still remember how it sounded too, they showed him composing it
its terrible btw, no harmony, no conclusion, it literally ends with a series of farts from a trumpet
They play on the simple fact that if you hum a Mozart tune, we remember it hundreds of years later.. but hum a Salieri tune..
people only starting saying this after the movie came out, before he was very much a figure with little interest
>02:10-02:42
Also he was incredibly mediocre, listen to more classical music.
>Never once in the movie did they let the audience hear his music because that would have completely undermined the narrative that he was "mediorcre."
damn, you're a fricking moron
Beethoven is in the movie anon. You missed him
>His most famous student was Beethoven who was just as great of a musical genius as Mozart, and that's also something the movie never mentions either.
That would be an interesting line to add, that he teaches Beethoven but is so obsessed with Mozart that he doesn't recognize it.
lil beethoven appeared in this scene
No. He tells us what he *thinks* his problem is without ever coming close to the truth. His problem is that he thinks God will reward him on Earth for a life of sacrifice and asceticism, for living the life of some sort of musical monk, only such a life deprives him of the life experience you need to produce great art, and what’s worse - his humility, his piety is a facade. He revels in the comforts and luxuries of the court, his momentary fame, all the while allowing his passions and desires to curdle into an envy that poisons every aspect of his existence, totally oblivious to the fact that the biggest obstacle standing in his way is himself. He is squandering God’s greatest gift, and it isn’t talent: it’s life itself. Meanwhile, Mozart is out making the most of it and expressing his joys and sorrows and longings through his music.
>musical monk
The only monk I know is Adrian Monk.
Thelonious Monk
he did not have OCD.
>3 FRICKING HOURS
and that will still only get you halfway through that movie!
I had a pretty good time listening to the BBC audio drama actually. I think it's top notch stuff.
>he literally spends 3 FRICKING HOURS to tell you exactly and in great length and detail what his problem is you fricking idiot!
this
>laughs like a hysterical six-year-old girl
And the rest is just the same is it?
How do you respond without sounding mad?
Dedicate your life to trying to sabotage his while maintaining a thin veneer of friendship
WE SMOKING ON THAT AMADEUS PACK
He was the only one who truly understood Mozart's genius and was chosen by God to help him out. Instead, he saw it as God mocking him and aimed to destroy His greatest gift.
I've never thought of it like that, you're absolutely right. If he had a shred of humility he could have fulfilled his role and find inner peace. But he felt entitled to bargain with God for the gift of talent and when that didn't work out as he expected (even though he was extremely accomplished by most metrics) he decided to reject God.
Are you serious? I'm pretty sure it is literally said like that in the movie. At some point he says something that he was the only one who noticed Mozart's genius from the start but played it down in front of others because they weren't sure about it
That part is pretty obvious, I was referring to the idea that God chose him to help Mozart and make his music reach as many people as possible. If Salieri really cared about the music instead of being praised and acknowledged by others, he could have been a conduit of God's divinity, just in a different way than Mozart. In my original interpretation I though the moral of the story was that you should accept the role given to you in life and bear your cross with humility, and that is still part of it in the movie, but its extra tragic when you think that God indeed gave Salieri a very important and noble role and he rejected it because he felt entitled to being the direct vessel for the divine.
Anyone one else think Mozart was a total c**t with no class or tact? Everyone knows that if you’re really good at something you don’t rub it in peoples faces or shame other people who are less talented than them by mocking their own efforts in their face. That part where he alters and improvise Salieri’s tune in front of him was just rude. Was Mozart autistic or something and had no sense for social cues?
>Was Mozart autistic or something and had no sense for social cues?
I would say missing the social cues. Keep in mind that he didn't have a normal childhood since his father trained him in music since birth. Mozart never got to play with other children and learn those social cues.
That was the point of the movie, basically. Salieri felt insulted by God for how talented Mozart was even though he was an idiotic manchild.
The story is fiction although the real Mozart was terrible with money and probably was a bit of an autistic butthole. He left his wife penniless and nobody knows where he was actually buried because the cheap ass cemetery forgot which casket was his when they buried him.
Haha yeah, mozarts body just got lost, but I swear I'm dead haha
>That part where he alters and improvise Salieri’s tune in front of him was just rude. Was Mozart autistic or something and had no sense for social cues?
he probably didnt even realize because he was caught up in playing the song and trying to improve it as if it were his own
I don't think he was being intentionally rude but I can understand Salieri's frustration over it happening right in front of the emperor. It would've been okay if they were just playing each others music in a private setting.
Yeah, it definitely wasn't intentional. Even at the party, I don't think him playing Salieri like a water-brain was meant to be all that insulting. I'm sure Mozart figured he was there, and was just giving a person he considered a friend (or at least a colleague) a bit of a roast. I can see why Salieri would take everything he did as an insult though. He sees Mozart and knows in his heart that he'll never be that good, so it feels like mocking.
he was just breakin' his balls a little
The only time he was outright an butthole was when he imitated Salieri’s scowl while playing, but being in a party he was probably just trying to do an Impression to amuse people than personal dislike.
he ended it with a big fart
>That part where he alters and improvise Salieri’s tune in front of him was just rude
an artist ought to have standards
Is this a compelling argument for why hard work can't beat natural genius?
yes but only if you haven't read Steinbeck
this
No, the movie is consistent in showing Mozart's slavish labor in contrast to Salieri's lazy and indulgent society life.
Cain and Abel
Post more "Cain and Abel" kino, then.
He was the predecessor to admiral Strauss.
was it kino?
my heart is melting
aww
homie does be looking kinda fire in that suit doe frfr not even gonna lie
Sorry I don’t see anything heartwarming about sexual harrassers
shut up homosexual
He's so cute bros. I wish I had a grandpa who smiled instead of the bitter grouchy old fellow I got.
Perhaps he would smile if he was proud of you
He is pretty famous and a great actor though, I would be surprised if he doesn't get cheered at all the time. I think this is a case of him just being a nice man
>is an old man that probably hates cellphones
>poses for the cellphone cameras anyway
based
>showing off his suit with that lil strut
he cute
Beethoven > Mozart
both mogged by Wagner. brb listening to the ring cycle again
>Peathoven
Further proof that Mozart is underrated
He had around 120 points of IQ. Too smart for normies, but too dumb for the intelligent fellas
literally me
He plotted Mozart's downfall until, ultimately, he realized that, in destroying his mortal enemy, he was actually depriving the world of an unwritten oeuvre of unparalleled musical genius
The last part in which he’s genuinely exhilarated at working with Mozart (way too late, tho) in supporting the act of composition as equals, instead of seething at his perceived inferiority, is absolute kino and hits way too close to home.
It’s wonderfully tragic.
Pride. He had no humility. Even his prayers to God as a boy were asking for his own exaltation first and foremost.
unironically my experience with this site
I can meme some things but they die off
Me and Maskposting. It was a fun fad but all attempts to revive it have been a total failure.
Did you guys completely miss that he actually admired Mozart and was looking forward to working with him UNTIL Mozart completely shat on his work in front of the emperor?
Yes, he let Mozart live rent-free in his head after that and shouldn't have let it get to him as much as he did for his own sake but he was completely justified in taking revenge and in the end Salieri did LITERALLY nothing wrong.
Mozart doesn’t intentionally shit on it, at least not at first. He’s just incapable of not improving on the work.
Its like Sid James and Vin Deisel had a son
God doesn't exist
If so explain how something came from nothing
and covid vaccines arent safe and reliable
He does but is indifferent. The universe was him brap posting.
I do like how they showed Salieri was better at composing things the general population would like. Salieri took it as an insult when Mozart off-handedly said "Maybe you could teach me that", but in the next opera scene, they show that Mozart wrote a song that ended in a way that let the audience know to clap.
I also like that they showed the gap between them wasn't all that large in the Requiem composition scene. Sure, Salieri couldn't keep up with the dictation, but that's because he was thinking about how he would write it. Once Mozart explained his thought process, he was right back on track. He had the talent, but it was second nature to Mozart
One of the best aspects of the ending is that right before Mozart dies, when the two of them are in Mozart's bedroom, Salieri realizes that they're more similar in spirit and their love of music than anyone else. When he does the dictation he's clearly lost his drive to actually kill Mozart, and sees that working together can be meaningful for both of them. Of course, God takes that from him too, or at least that's how he reflects on it.
Chuck vs. Slippin' Jimmy moment
He wanted that amadick rammed up his ass and was bitter about the fact it would never happen.
>Mozart's music gets middling reception at best by audiences
>Salieri's work gets called the best opera ever by the emperor, and the audience seems to agree
>Salieri knows this isn't true and his frustration at people not seeing the greatness he sees in Mozart only feels like further taunting from God to him
They really nailed this character
he couldn't carry a tune to save his life
His booty was prolapsing
The movie is fake
The israelites killed Mozart
Even the israelitepedia page lists it as a fringe theory
Amadeus always reminds me of this.
this was trash except for the end
my fricking sides
The film created a strawman character you dumb nonce
The Salieri in the movie is basically Frank Grimes. He devoted himself to the craft, sacrificed all personal interests including romance for the sake of music and teaching. He did everything "right" that the Church and society extols to the masses; except it flies out the window when Mozart can get by with massive talent and being an unscrupulous guy. And because he played by the rules, he got butthurt that he got "cheated".
Play Anonymous
He didnt realize he was ALSO blessed and chosen by god. Not to be the fire/talent/mozart jesus, but to be the first to recognize him, ie be the prophet/guide/john the baptist.
If this movie has a flaw is that it doesnt finish with him coming to this realization and understanding of god's plan. He was chosen, he was loved, he was the only one who could see mozart's talent and truly understand it.
I don't particularly see that as a flaw. He was never a truly pious man (constantly making demands of God, bargaining with Him, only wanting to be devout for his own glory). Salieri ended up learning an equally important lesson. It's okay to not be the greatest (even if he did prop himself up as the greatest of the non-greats)
God. God was his problem and refusing to reward good people.
I can relate.
Daily reminder that the film is literal historical slander and it was in fact Mozart (and his dad) who were seething about Salieri.
Remember this competition by the king? Well, Salieri won it in real life and Mozart seethed and b***hed so much he literally COPIED salieris piece kek.
T. Salieri's great great great great great great great great granddaughtxir
Hollywood revisionism