Made who rich? The farmers, traders, shopkeepers? Individuals or families? Did these wealthy groups fund the sheriffs and maintain the roads and public spaces out of the goodness of their own heart?
Yes, hobbits are simple people in a high trust society (except outsiders). They work for the betterment of the land. The rest of the time they smoke, eat, and drink.
Incorrect, there is a chain of government establishes. Pippin and Merry both became leaders of their respective areas and Samwise was elected Mayor of The Shire seven times.
They used to be vassals of the king of Arnor (who's long forgotten by that point). They have a mayor but that's merely a ceremonial office (he mainly presides festivals etc.). Their voluntary police force (there're only a handful of them) keeps an eye on the borders and potential trouble makers. They also have a postal office which, if I recall correctly, is their only "real" public institution. Then of course there's the landed gentry like the Tooks and Brandybucks that have a lot of influence especially in the places that were settled by those respective families
>The Shire is the only democracy in Middle-Earth >It was also objectively the best place to live in until Saruman invaded, but they quickly recovered and remained an awesome place to live in
Why does LotR get accused of being monarchist propaganda again?
They used to be vassals of the king of Arnor (who's long forgotten by that point). They have a mayor but that's merely a ceremonial office (he mainly presides festivals etc.). Their voluntary police force (there're only a handful of them) keeps an eye on the borders and potential trouble makers. They also have a postal office which, if I recall correctly, is their only "real" public institution. Then of course there's the landed gentry like the Tooks and Brandybucks that have a lot of influence especially in the places that were settled by those respective families
Are the Shiriffs volunteer? I thought there was a core force of full timers that can be expanded to include volunteers should the need arise. One can imagine the postal services pays for itself through stamps or whatever. It’s possible the shiriffs fund themselves through fines. But none of this nor taxation comes up in LOTR
Who maintains roads and bridges? With what funds?
The books portray the Shire as very isolated but it’s clear that Pipeweed is an export product as all of the other characters are aware of what it is and smoke it. Also what they drink as tea isn’t every clarified but if it’s “tea” tea then it would need to grown in a different climate to the shire and imported
It’s unlikely they would be built without public money unless they function as a toll bridge and toll road
The thing about tea was more about advanced economies and importing-exporting that isn’t implied by the way the Shire is depicted
Roads get built and maintained because it benefits all involved, and yes, some of them may have tolls.
And wtf are you talking about? A guy brings in tea, takes some hobbit weed. Easy.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You have to understand, most people nowadays are untertan who literally can't comprehend society functioning without an overweening state directing everything and forcing people to behave, let alone a high-trust society like the Shire.
It's really quite tragic how far and how fast we've fallen.
They had the society white people in white countries used to have, where if the road was fricked you'd get the men of the village together and just fix the road, because everyone used the road and everyone needed it to be unfricked, and anyone who didn't help out was going to have a hard time next harvest when they needed an extra couple of hands.
They were definitely an anarcho-socialist society. >houses are just "dig a hole somewhere" >trade restricted between hobbits >hang around smoking a pipe and doing whatever you see needs to be done, like fixing a hole in the road >cultivate food which their tiny bodies could live on more efficiently >small enough population to not really have resources become a problem
Taxes are completely unnecessary. Imagine a Hobbit tax collector, you can't. Imagine a squad of Hobbit tax collectors dragging a hobbit out and beating and killing him because he refused to pay his weed tax, you can't.
No need for taxs, the export of crops and pipeweed made The Shire very rich
Made who rich? The farmers, traders, shopkeepers? Individuals or families? Did these wealthy groups fund the sheriffs and maintain the roads and public spaces out of the goodness of their own heart?
Yes, hobbits are simple people in a high trust society (except outsiders). They work for the betterment of the land. The rest of the time they smoke, eat, and drink.
they had two very large very old families who always put one of their members in the mayor's chair
>maintain the roads and public spaces
Roads are just dirt roads. Public spaces are just any field.
They are very civilized, even have newspapers and post service
They funded those things for mutual benefit
>maintain the roads
Imagine what a farmer in the cotswolds does when his dirt track get too rough for his vehicles. He fixs it.
They're an anarchocapitalist commune.
So they had tariffs and VAT instead?
Nobody really even knew about The Shire.
Imagine if the mayor of a state's capitol was the governor.
TND.
Simple as.
There's no apes in the shire. Why? Because they can't farm, they're always stealing so the hobbits kill all apes that rove the shire.
Half your shit.
The Shire had abundant wealth exploited from Mordor after the War of the Last Alliance and the unjust reparations imposed upon the orcs.
Who exactly governs the Shire? Is there a Hobbit king or a Hobbit feudal lord that's a vassal to a human king?
Anarcho-Capitalism society
Incorrect, there is a chain of government establishes. Pippin and Merry both became leaders of their respective areas and Samwise was elected Mayor of The Shire seven times.
They have a mayor. Which Sam eventually became.
>The Shire is the only democracy in Middle-Earth
>It was also objectively the best place to live in until Saruman invaded, but they quickly recovered and remained an awesome place to live in
Why does LotR get accused of being monarchist propaganda again?
They used to be vassals of the king of Arnor (who's long forgotten by that point). They have a mayor but that's merely a ceremonial office (he mainly presides festivals etc.). Their voluntary police force (there're only a handful of them) keeps an eye on the borders and potential trouble makers. They also have a postal office which, if I recall correctly, is their only "real" public institution. Then of course there's the landed gentry like the Tooks and Brandybucks that have a lot of influence especially in the places that were settled by those respective families
Are the Shiriffs volunteer? I thought there was a core force of full timers that can be expanded to include volunteers should the need arise. One can imagine the postal services pays for itself through stamps or whatever. It’s possible the shiriffs fund themselves through fines. But none of this nor taxation comes up in LOTR
Who maintains roads and bridges? With what funds?
The books portray the Shire as very isolated but it’s clear that Pipeweed is an export product as all of the other characters are aware of what it is and smoke it. Also what they drink as tea isn’t every clarified but if it’s “tea” tea then it would need to grown in a different climate to the shire and imported
>roads and bridges can't be built without taxes
>tea can't be imported without taxes
It’s unlikely they would be built without public money unless they function as a toll bridge and toll road
The thing about tea was more about advanced economies and importing-exporting that isn’t implied by the way the Shire is depicted
Roads get built and maintained because it benefits all involved, and yes, some of them may have tolls.
And wtf are you talking about? A guy brings in tea, takes some hobbit weed. Easy.
You have to understand, most people nowadays are untertan who literally can't comprehend society functioning without an overweening state directing everything and forcing people to behave, let alone a high-trust society like the Shire.
It's really quite tragic how far and how fast we've fallen.
Bilbo just gave everyone the loot he took from the dragon's horde.
60cent of every first breakfast
What about 2nd and 3rd?
I don't think he knows about those, Pippin.
Estate (sale) tax
They're taking the profits to Israel
What about the bonus situation on this sort of mission...quest...thing?
Nice
You two will get what breakfasts you contracted for. Just like everybody else.
They had the society white people in white countries used to have, where if the road was fricked you'd get the men of the village together and just fix the road, because everyone used the road and everyone needed it to be unfricked, and anyone who didn't help out was going to have a hard time next harvest when they needed an extra couple of hands.
This, homogenous society cannot be achieved if there is not a high trust.
People wish they lived in The Shire because they wouldn’t have to pay taxes but forget the constant fear of raids by Orcs.
Tax isn’t a universal concept.
bilbo enslaved everyone with dragon wealth
Bilbo was obviously a landlord. People below Bag End paid him in taxes, crops, firewood etc.
Dragon horde distribution via Bilbo.
They were definitely an anarcho-socialist society.
>houses are just "dig a hole somewhere"
>trade restricted between hobbits
>hang around smoking a pipe and doing whatever you see needs to be done, like fixing a hole in the road
>cultivate food which their tiny bodies could live on more efficiently
>small enough population to not really have resources become a problem
Taxes are completely unnecessary. Imagine a Hobbit tax collector, you can't. Imagine a squad of Hobbit tax collectors dragging a hobbit out and beating and killing him because he refused to pay his weed tax, you can't.
>government owns land
>you pay taxes to live there
>landlord owns land
>you pay rent to live there
The difference is just semantical. Considering there were class-differences, I bet they had a feudal system
What did Frodo mean by this?
whats going on here?
sauce:?
Cash, grass, or ass.